Game of Champions 2017 - GAME OVER

[Quin]

Dom -

I think it's odd that Cecil survived about 8 days or so in Pikachu untouched after I deduced who he was, and then the moment new blood came into the thread and saw that sprit was Cecil, Cecil was killed.

I believe someone who was originally Cerberus but moved to Pikachu killed him because they had a different idea of what Cecil could do or accomplish, or a different view of gossip roles.

Short version - seems too much a coincidence that Cecil dies right after the merge. I don't believe in coincidences like that.

Are scum not going to communicate townfirms to eachother in BTSC?

[Epignosis]

Sorry, must be too highfalutin with my college degree.

DH wants to get other people to lynch you.

Why does that make him bad?

It's so ironic that you missed the point when I mentioned college. You took it as an insult. I meant it as a compliment.

I don't think DH is bad. I never have.

Do you want to answer my question or not? I'm sick of this.

I answered your question.

Your question was a loaded question:

"Why does that make him bad?"

My answer was:

"I don't think DH is bad. I never have."

Next question please.

[Dom]

Not too long - Day 11 or 12, at the latest. But jumping right into this 'We absolutely without fail or any further consideration must lynch speedchuck' thing sucks.

Is this the only reason why speedchuck could be bad?

Dom -

I think it's odd that Cecil survived about 8 days or so in Pikachu untouched after I deduced who he was, and then the moment new blood came into the thread and saw that sprit was Cecil, Cecil was killed.

I believe someone who was originally Cerberus but moved to Pikachu killed him because they had a different idea of what Cecil could do or accomplish, or a different view of gossip roles.

Short version - seems too much a coincidence that Cecil dies right after the merge. I don't believe in coincidences like that.

OK.
So... who does that implicate?

[Epignosis]

I don't believe in coincidences like that.

You damn sure don't.

[DharmaHelper]

IDK It just seemed odd that they waited so long and then right when the merge happened, boom, down goes Cecil.

[Quin]

Not too long - Day 11 or 12, at the latest. But jumping right into this 'We absolutely without fail or any further consideration must lynch speedchuck' thing sucks.

Is this the only reason why speedchuck could be bad?

Dom -

I think it's odd that Cecil survived about 8 days or so in Pikachu untouched after I deduced who he was, and then the moment new blood came into the thread and saw that sprit was Cecil, Cecil was killed.

I believe someone who was originally Cerberus but moved to Pikachu killed him because they had a different idea of what Cecil could do or accomplish, or a different view of gossip roles.

Short version - seems too much a coincidence that Cecil dies right after the merge. I don't believe in coincidences like that.

OK.
So... who does that implicate?

DH has something to say about that.

[Dom]

Not too long - Day 11 or 12, at the latest. But jumping right into this 'We absolutely without fail or any further consideration must lynch speedchuck' thing sucks.

Is this the only reason why speedchuck could be bad?

Dom -

I think it's odd that Cecil survived about 8 days or so in Pikachu untouched after I deduced who he was, and then the moment new blood came into the thread and saw that sprit was Cecil, Cecil was killed.

I believe someone who was originally Cerberus but moved to Pikachu killed him because they had a different idea of what Cecil could do or accomplish, or a different view of gossip roles.

Short version - seems too much a coincidence that Cecil dies right after the merge. I don't believe in coincidences like that.

OK.
So... who does that implicate?

DH has something to say about that.

Hey Quin, I recall you being on a tribe with me where most of the first five days of the game were litigations of whether speedchuck was bad or not...

so like...

you pretending to have amnesia or not? Your (and SVS's) entire defense of speedchuck is predicated on the idea that this is the only reason to think he is bad.
It is not.

IDK It just seemed odd that they waited so long and then right when the merge happened, boom, down goes Cecil.

Super.
You were there-- who might have done it?

[Epignosis]

IDK It just seemed odd that they waited so long and then right when the merge happened, boom, down goes Cecil.

That's why we're voting Wilgy.

[Dom]

Why is Wilgy the person to look at here?

[Dom]

I don't doubt it I just don't know the answer to that question.

[DharmaHelper]

To be fair I don't remember if Marmot had been lynched or not before Cecil died. Other than him I don't really have enough of a grasp to say who. Not yet anyway.

I just figured I'd put it out there in the event something trips. Always a good idea to shorten the list of suspects.

[Dom]

DH-- do you seem to have an understanding of why Wilgy is suspect for this?

[Quin]

Not too long - Day 11 or 12, at the latest. But jumping right into this 'We absolutely without fail or any further consideration must lynch speedchuck' thing sucks.

Is this the only reason why speedchuck could be bad?

Dom -

I think it's odd that Cecil survived about 8 days or so in Pikachu untouched after I deduced who he was, and then the moment new blood came into the thread and saw that sprit was Cecil, Cecil was killed.

I believe someone who was originally Cerberus but moved to Pikachu killed him because they had a different idea of what Cecil could do or accomplish, or a different view of gossip roles.

Short version - seems too much a coincidence that Cecil dies right after the merge. I don't believe in coincidences like that.

OK.
So... who does that implicate?

DH has something to say about that.

Hey Quin, I recall you being on a tribe with me where most of the first five days of the game were litigations of whether speedchuck was bad or not...

so like...

you pretending to have amnesia or not? Your (and SVS's) entire defense of speedchuck is predicated on the idea that this is the only reason to think he is bad.
It is not.

IDK It just seemed odd that they waited so long and then right when the merge happened, boom, down goes Cecil.

Super.
You were there-- who might have done it?

And you asked me about that before. I told you I believed speedchuck 1.0 to be town and hadn't changed my opinion in his second life.

My 'defense' is not a defense. It's a call for the civilians to actually think about things. DH is the only one mentioning prior reasons to suspect him. Everyone else is just wielding their pitchforks. That's not on. speedchuck simply doesn't need to die yet.

[Quin]

To make everything clear, I'm not tinfoiling a town speedchuck right now. I'm just promoting due process.

[Epignosis]

I am not wielding a pitchfork.

I'm speedchuck's teammate, remember?

[Scotty]

Dom did you see my theory that because Cecil survived 8 days in Pikachu without being killed after I outted him and then he got killed right when we swapped around, one of the Cerberus swappers killed Cecil?

I did not nor do I really understand.

Can you please explain point by point?

Sorry, must be too highfalutin with my college degree.

DH wants to get other people to lynch you.

Why does that make him bad?

It's so ironic that you missed the point when I mentioned college. You took it as an insult. I meant it as a compliment.

I don't think DH is bad. I never have.

Do you want to answer my question or not? I'm sick of this.

Ok I'm not caught up yet but I have to say this.

I am thoroughly moved by your belef in our capicity to lynch Speedchuck, and disappointed with myself that I wasn't motivated enough to yell at everyone to do it and instead spent 48 hours hosting Image Mafia or doing RL things or other pointless crap. Which led to a wagon of a grand total of 6 people ignoring host evidence and voting for me instead, and another 4 doing jack shit.

My hearts throbs at seeing all the betrayed hope, of those children who thought we could get it done and yet, instead of receiving the present they expected, found a carcass of a dead marmot under the christmas tree. With coal.

I must do something to vindicate them.

So I promise you, people, that Speedchuck will die on Day 10.

There are no "buts" or "ifs". No tinfoil. I will personally confiscate every tinfoil hat and burn them if necessary. I will place them on the floor in a way that the smoke forms the words "LYNCH SPEEDCHUCK" when they burn.

There is a host post saying he is a civ and another host post confirming the existance of a role that can create host posts with inverted alignment. It's not any more clear cut than that. Of course there may be ways this information can be wrong, just like there may be ways DH actually caught all scum by himself, but we don't count on those when playing mafia. We follow the most logical path and accept the gift given to use by the hosts. Specially in a game where, let's be frank, we are kicking mafia in the asses so hard I can almost smell the tears coming from their BTSC chats. We have spare days to test weird tangents, and we most definitely have spare days to follow occam's razor, and if that fails, follow weird tangents afterwards.

Speedchuck dies. End of story. If there is any new information from the last 10 pages that makes this post hilariously misguided, show it to me now, otherwise the first time you see me on Day 10 will be with a torch, a pitchfork, and whatever tool they use to kill the lizard thing that is on Chuck's avatar.

I'm not voting speedchuck tomorrow. That's the lazy vote. I already explained why waiting to lynch him is the best option. We have limited information and waiting a not-horribly-long amount of time to see if a bona fide alignment revealer flips is the logical course of action. We're not at LYLO. We can afford it. With every flip that isn't that role, the probability of him being scum increases. No need to rush into a lynch now.

I will not be accepting any counterpoints at this time, thank you. Especially because today isn't Day 10 and we don't need to be talking about speedchuck.

How long do we wait for a bonafide revealer?

Not too long - Day 11 or 12, at the latest. But jumping right into this 'We absolutely without fail or any further consideration must lynch speedchuck' thing sucks.

Wtf how does 1 to 2 lynches later make a difference? We’ll just get to a point where we’re like ‘eh, let’s lynch him now?’ Naw man, this is bogus thinking

[Quin]

I am not wielding a pitchfork.

I'm speedchuck's teammate, remember?

[Dom]

[DharmaHelper]

DH-- do you seem to have an understanding of why Wilgy is suspect for this?

Not really.

[Epignosis]

I'm still cool with a Wilgy lynch. I agree with the consensus in the Pikachu tribe, and, if anything, it will save the hosts some replacement woes. I'm good with this.

[Dom]

I'll vote Wilgy.

[S~V~S]

IDK It just seemed odd that they waited so long and then right when the merge happened, boom, down goes Cecil.

That's why we're voting Wilgy.

This is not why I am voting for Wilgy. When I asked repeatedly yesterday why we were lynching Wilgy, no one explained this to me. I am voting Wilgy because I liked Daisys case, but primarily because he came in and said he wanted replacement, and then the Host came in and confirmed this, and said he did not have a replacement. Sprityo was killed on Night 8, an even night, and there were most definitely Evens in here, and they had BTSC all along.

But for me it's Daisy case and lack of replacements all the way.

[mention]Dom[/mention]~ I am not defending Speedchuck, and am not sure how that is the idea both you and DH have. I think the Nutella thing is a false flag. I think he is bad due to his aggressive defense of LC (which involved the idea of lynching you, instead, as you may recall), but per Nutellas role she could not target a teammate. I think if Chuck is bad, he is on the Evens. Remember right after LC died, and you asked the host if LC's power extended past death? Hosts said

Well, I think maybe it did, but he targeted Chuck, not you. Sounds like tinfoil? Prolly, you know me better than most here. Read this post:

I'm confused, SVS what is your read on chuck?

I think he could be bad. I have been saying so since, Oh, LC was lynched the first time. I have had moments when I doubted it, Chuck is rather nice even when you back him into a corner. But like I have said about 88 gazillion times I am having a hard time getting past how aggressively he defended LC.

If you recall, when he first had his role revealed, I grudgingly accepted it, but then when I thought about it, I started going back the other way. I was trying to let is slide and periodically remind him that I still suspected him. But then Nutellas flip with it's "Cannot target a teammate" line, and so much for quietly watching him and poking him periodically.

I wanted to watch him and try to catch him so it could be proven even if he were to flip civ. Then this all came up, and now he is going to be lynched and he will probably flip civ. I wanted to give him a fairer hearing, try him based on the thread, rather than a questionable connection to a role reveal, but again, that isn't going to happen now.

[Golden]

In an ideal world, I am not the primary reason for a vote. I does not perturb me that we can't find a replacement for Wilgy. Wilgy will still participate the best he can. I have bigger woes in my life than that. One such bigger woe would be accused of influencing the game. I confirmed Wilgy had asked for a replacement because I do so as a matter of course as a host when players note this themselves, I believe it is fair information for all involved to have. Not because I have any desire to influence the outcome of the lynch (either in favour of or against Wilgy).

[S~V~S]

I know, but Wilgy doesn't want to play, other people have a reason to suspect him, so why make him play?

[S~V~S]

ebwop, I mainly liked Daisys case.

Also, the evens could have killed Sprit any time they liked up to when Nutella died if she and LC were the only two in here, and they had cross tribe BTSC, as this post, one of LCs last posts in Pikachu, would indicate:

#2153 Post by Long Con » Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:36:24 pm
Cerberus Tribe is going to crush you guys if you don't let them have some lynches. Hell, they could have baddies caught as hell over there, trying to lynch, but Pikachu is just too greedy.

Plus there is the randomization thing, no PM, hosts randomize. So maybe they missed a PM.

I thought Daisy made solid points.

[Dom]

SVS-- you aren't defending speedchuck like DH didn't defend LC.

[Dom]

also why did cbob totally disappear once his role was revealed?

[S~V~S]

SVS-- you aren't defending speedchuck like DH didn't defend LC.

Did you read the post? Actually read it? I THINK SPEEDCHUCK IS BAD. I just think Nutella has nothing to do with it and he's gonna flip civ. I would have preferred to watch him for a while.

So no, I am not not defending him like DH didn't defend LC. Geez.

[colonialbob]

also why did cbob totally disappear once his role was revealed?

ISO me, I've answered this question several times and it's getting really old. What's the point of posting if people don't read the posts?

[colonialbob]

Following the train, because I've fallen off of it. Vote Wilgy aubergine.

[VOTE: boomslang ] aubergine for this

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Someone protect SVS.

She is a civ.

plz explain

I can feel it in my bones.

[colonialbob]

Someone protect SVS.

She is a civ.

plz explain

I can feel it in my bones.

Why did you ask for somebody to protect her instead of just calling her supatown or whatever?

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Someone protect SVS.

She is a civ.

plz explain

I can feel it in my bones.

Why did you ask for somebody to protect her instead of just calling her supatown or whatever?

I dunno I thought it was more dramatic that way.

[Quin]

remember how i was all like 'hey let's not just talk about speedchuck' and then proceeded to talk about nothing except speedchuck before falling off the face of the earth? yeah, i did that

i like daisy's stuff on wilgy. i need to re-read epi's stuff on DDL in tribe aubergine since he's adamant that he's good.

[VOTE: wilgy] aubergine

[colonialbob]

I've been around a bit today. I'd also like to emphasize the "doesn't make any sense for me to be nutella's teammate" angle and see what people think about that.

What angle is that?

If we were teammates nutella wouldn't have been the one hit by my bomb

what bomb?

Last person to vote for him got a bomb, it's in the day 6 Lynch post.

ohhhhh is that how Nutella was daykilled

I don't think so? Her tasks were day 7, and she blew up day 8.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Nope, no crazy pills. If there is a baddie faux flipper, there has to be a real flipper, and Chuck was the subject of much speculation. Flipping a baddie from the other team as good would hurt the Evens, not help them.

Joy, I expect to be Haikued tonight

So the bad flipper and the good flipper were both on the same tribe?

Maybe. It just doesn't make sense for Nutella to have used her one shot role that way at that time. They would have saved it when it could help them, not someone else. The way that was timed it was either someone who trusted or suspected Chuck and wanted it out in the open once and for all.

I don't buy Nutella using her one role power that way at that time, nope. Nutella is a tight player, she hangs onto her goods, she doesn't have that use it or lose it mentality some do. I do not buy it.

Nope.

It's a framing power, the main use is on a civ so they look bad and get lynched. Preferrably sooner rather than later so players don't have more data to counteract your framing.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Nope, no crazy pills. If there is a baddie faux flipper, there has to be a real flipper, and Chuck was the subject of much speculation. Flipping a baddie from the other team as good would hurt the Evens, not help them.

Joy, I expect to be Haikued tonight

So the bad flipper and the good flipper were both on the same tribe?

Maybe. It just doesn't make sense for Nutella to have used her one shot role that way at that time. They would have saved it when it could help them, not someone else. The way that was timed it was either someone who trusted or suspected Chuck and wanted it out in the open once and for all.

I don't buy Nutella using her one role power that way at that time, nope. Nutella is a tight player, she hangs onto her goods, she doesn't have that use it or lose it mentality some do. I do not buy it.

Nope.

But like when would she use it where it would be more helpful? Because as far as I’m concerned, it’s not the most useful role for mafia, is it? It’s like a reverse cop. But the cop is drunk and tells everyone and once the cop dies everyone knows what a detriment he was to the force.

Why would she, right after he helped save a baddie, and she had no inkling she would die soon, reveal him as a civ, rather than let the thread derail (and it would have) by people trying to lynch him?

It makes no sense. It is too easy of a conclusion to jump to, and if you read Pikachu, you KNOW how hot and heavy I was to lynch Chuck. If her role said she could have done it to a TEAMMATE I would be waving the pichfork harder and heavier than anyone else. But she couldn't, and I see no benefit to her using it on a baddie from another team randomly.

And besides, Nutella hoard her assets, she is not one to just use it or lose it. There is no strategic value for her in faux revealing Chuck unless she knew she was going to die.

You keep taking for granted that Nutella's team knew Speedchuck's alignment.

I don't know where you are taking that from.

For all we know, they thought he was a civ and tried to frame him. Or at the very least, they gambled on the high possibility he was a civ.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

There would be little to no benefit in having a civ mirror of nutellas role that revealed legitimate roles publicly. If anything that would benefit nutella's mafia team proportionately more than the civs, and might also benefit the second mafia team as well.

Ergo, Chuck was revealed by Nutella.

What? Being able to publically confirm somebody's alignment and role is of no benefit to town?

Not with Nutella's role in the game, and not if that person is just going to get nightkilled and possibly turned mafia.

If that role gets saved to the endgame, it wins games.

[Epignosis]

Nope, no crazy pills. If there is a baddie faux flipper, there has to be a real flipper, and Chuck was the subject of much speculation. Flipping a baddie from the other team as good would hurt the Evens, not help them.

Joy, I expect to be Haikued tonight

So the bad flipper and the good flipper were both on the same tribe?

Maybe. It just doesn't make sense for Nutella to have used her one shot role that way at that time. They would have saved it when it could help them, not someone else. The way that was timed it was either someone who trusted or suspected Chuck and wanted it out in the open once and for all.

I don't buy Nutella using her one role power that way at that time, nope. Nutella is a tight player, she hangs onto her goods, she doesn't have that use it or lose it mentality some do. I do not buy it.

Nope.

But like when would she use it where it would be more helpful? Because as far as I’m concerned, it’s not the most useful role for mafia, is it? It’s like a reverse cop. But the cop is drunk and tells everyone and once the cop dies everyone knows what a detriment he was to the force.

Why would she, right after he helped save a baddie, and she had no inkling she would die soon, reveal him as a civ, rather than let the thread derail (and it would have) by people trying to lynch him?

It makes no sense. It is too easy of a conclusion to jump to, and if you read Pikachu, you KNOW how hot and heavy I was to lynch Chuck. If her role said she could have done it to a TEAMMATE I would be waving the pichfork harder and heavier than anyone else. But she couldn't, and I see no benefit to her using it on a baddie from another team randomly.

And besides, Nutella hoard her assets, she is not one to just use it or lose it. There is no strategic value for her in faux revealing Chuck unless she knew she was going to die.

You keep taking for granted that Nutella's team knew Speedchuck's alignment.

I don't know where you are taking that from.

For all we know, they thought he was a civ and tried to frame him. Or at the very least, they gambled on the high possibility he was a civ.

This.

The way I see it, nutella used her power on someone almost universally considered a civilian to make him look bad.

Only lookie there. He's actually bad.

That makes the most sense to me at this stage.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

I'm not voting speedchuck tomorrow. That's the lazy vote. I already explained why waiting to lynch him is the best option. We have limited information and waiting a not-horribly-long amount of time to see if a bona fide alignment revealer flips is the logical course of action. We're not at LYLO. We can afford it. With every flip that isn't that role, the probability of him being scum increases. No need to rush into a lynch now.

I will not be accepting any counterpoints at this time, thank you. Especially because today isn't Day 10 and we don't need to be talking about speedchuck.

This reasoning is so weird.

We get way more information on one player than we would ever get in most mafia games and your reaction to it is "not enough, need more evidence".

It just doesn't connect.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

CAUGHT UP! FINALLY!

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Do we have a list of people who still have 2 lives?

Are Wilgy and Boomslang among them?

[Scotty]

Do we have a list of people who still have 2 lives?

Are Wilgy and Boomslang among them?

No list. I’ll make one real quick.

2 LIVES:
Boomslang
DH
Dom
DDL
DrWilgy
Epi
Kyle
Quin
Sloonei
SpaceDaisy

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Hmm, ISOing WIlgy, turns out I actually agree with Daisy's meta point despite the cactus-ass event.

I read WIlgy as a civ in Pokemon and got burned because he looked like seriously scumhunting but wasn't.

While the play in Image can easily be explained by real life constraint.

I don't have a big reason to think he's bad myself tho. Nor to think he's a civ, on the other hand. I suck at reading Wilgy even more than I suck at reading Bob.

linki: thanks Scotty.

So we don't learn much from lynching either WIlgy or Booms today. Okay.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

So we have killed 17/46 lives so far, a ratio of 37%

This will be a long game.

[Epignosis]

So we have killed 17/46 lives so far, a ratio of 37%

This will be a long game.

Not if current trends continue.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Don't have a good reason to vote for Booms ether, after the skim on his post. Early game feels like he's really hunting even if it's a little salad-y. Late game he's doing nothing, but that's very easily attributabble to real life. Will consider a policy lynch if he doesn't step up, but not now.

I think I'll just sheep on Wilgy.

[VOTE: DrWilgy] aubergine

[Epignosis]

What is the reason for voting Boomslang? What team do you think he's on, and what do you make of Marmot's aggression toward him?

[Dragon D. Luffy]

What is the reason for voting Boomslang? What team do you think he's on, and what do you make of Marmot's aggression toward him?

I'm not voting Boomslang.

[Epignosis]

What is the reason for voting Boomslang? What team do you think he's on, and what do you make of Marmot's aggression toward him?

I'm not voting Boomslang.

I'm asking those who are.