Ancient Greece Mafia [CONQUEST]

[Scotty]

I do not like the fact that several people haven't really posted much tbh, if they're all town it burns even more

Which several people are you singling out?

me me me me me me

Well don’t put words in his mouth just yet.

I just don’t know if he’s talking about people that should be talking more and aren’t, or people like Jack who is Casper the ghost

[Dom]

Your explanation is plausible.
I still think you are one, so far, to look for something to say rather than have something to say.

i also don't really care to defend against this argument, because similar to what happened with Golden earlier and what you're doing with sig now, we're likely to go round in circles. ya'll are free to your own interpretation of my posts. happy hunting.

Also fair.

[Golden]

Mac, my point on career tunnelling is that if you can’t accept meta tells as a factor, and you read tells wrong, you’ll keep coming to the same opinion even if you’ve been wrong in the past.

Take sig. I think his early posts were objectively suspicious, but that’s counterbalanced by the fact sig always comes across that way. If I reject the concept of meta tells, id just keep mislynching him.

Yes, I can use meta against you, so you’re right in the sense you can’t fully rely on it. But you should be able to rely on it to a certain extent.

[Golden]

Besides, when was the last time you two legitimately played a game together?

Oh, forgot about this. Good question. I'm not sure. Maybe a couple years? I'd love to do some research and find out but don't have the time atm since I need to head to campus momentarily.

Don't get me wrong, all my reads, including my Golden one, are Day 1-level reads. But my read on Golden being town is as confident as a Day 1-level read can get. I'm sure I'll find a beef with something he says later. If I don't, it means he's bad, so get him.

I cannot begin to explain how differently I approach the game now than I did two years ago. On the surface people seem to struggle to see it because I am still prolific and antagonistic but I am far more thoughtful, I post a lot less (I promise) and I have forgotten tons I knew on meta. When I read old games I am baffled by how much meta I had on people.

2 years is a long ass time to have passed to be still giving a guy a pass that amounts to "is town when looks scum".

Fair enough. If you have just forgotten I can’t complain.

[Golden]

Can you explain your Epi vote? @Golden @Scotty

He’s quiet. I don’t trust quiet epi.

[novaselinenever]

Also wolbre and I are from the same original site, we've aldo played on mu once together. However, every game we've played together I've been mafia or independent so I never really bothered to learn his meta.

I don't believe he's ever been mafia and is still new to mafia as a whole compared to all of us, he's also deadily as an independent and in my opinion if he's one of those three trading guys he'll side with mafia for the lolz.

But no one asked about wolbre yet.

Good to know nonetheless. Looking forward to playing with you, wolbre!

I don't like this post its weird, light scum ping on MP

What don't you like about it ? Him calling you out ?

Given I share his perspective I am going to assume you aren't trying and are bad.

I'm trying but unlike you I don't share his perspective since I didn't like his initial post (sig's). It felt forced so I understand where MP is coming from and why he asked him that. I'd like to know why he found MP's post bad.

First I think we played a few games here and there on TS, but we weren't active in them at the same time.

I found it bad that MP called me out for giving meta information on a player that nobody else knew anything about. Like why wouldn't I offer this information unprompted? Especially when it might not be common knowledge that we're from the same site.

Oh my bad then. I've been fairly inactive in most of my games here so I might have missed you.

Well, it looked more like a 'no you' post after he called you out. About your initial post, it was more the tone of it than the information shared that rubbed me wrong. I appreciate the info given but it felt like you were over excited to talk about it. Forced. A premeditated post. Something baddies often do to appear helpful.

[Golden]

[VOTE: Sloonei] aubergine

Placeholder until I get around to reading any of his posts.

Is this gonna be my role in the game?

Isn’t it fun?

[Golden]

As I’m catching up I’m liking sig quite a bit so town read to him.

[sig]

As I’m catching up I’m liking sig quite a bit so town read to him.

[Golden]

[VOTE: Sloonei] aubergine

Placeholder until I get around to reading any of his posts.

Is this gonna be my role in the game?

I dunno. Are people not reading your posts?

I was more referring to the "placeholder" comment. Golden put a vote on me last night just to see the poll, so he says.

That’s a little inaccurate. I could have seen the poll without placing a vote. That was for more about the when pf me placing rather than the who.

I placed it on you because, as I said, no baggage.

[sig]

But no one asked about wolbre yet.

Good to know nonetheless. Looking forward to playing with you, wolbre!

I don't like this post its weird, light scum ping on MP

What don't you like about it ? Him calling you out ?

Given I share his perspective I am going to assume you aren't trying and are bad.

I'm trying but unlike you I don't share his perspective since I didn't like his initial post (sig's). It felt forced so I understand where MP is coming from and why he asked him that. I'd like to know why he found MP's post bad.

First I think we played a few games here and there on TS, but we weren't active in them at the same time.

I found it bad that MP called me out for giving meta information on a player that nobody else knew anything about. Like why wouldn't I offer this information unprompted? Especially when it might not be common knowledge that we're from the same site.

Oh my bad then. I've been fairly inactive in most of my games here so I might have missed you.

Well, it looked more like a 'no you' post after he called you out. About your initial post, it was more the tone of it than the information shared that rubbed me wrong. I appreciate the info given but it felt like you were over excited to talk about it. Forced. A premeditated post. Something baddies often do to appear helpful.

No problem!

I still hold my scum lean on MP and still dislike his interaction with me, but nobody else seems to be seeing what I'm seeing with him. I mainly dislike that he flipped and is civ reading me now after calling me out so I wouldn't say my read on him is a NO U.

[MacDougall]

Yo scroeys.

2Dom. I was doing the Pingometer when in catch up mode to measure mystic Mac's most magnificent day 1 gut pings. Once caught up I became too involved in back and forthing to keep up with it. I would have ended up in column ax with the amount of Golden pings.

Also I'm sorry. I told MP to eat shit purely out of love and irony. I wouldn't say that to someone I thought would take it the wrong way.

And ... I can't remember anyone else actually posing me a question in dat catchup. After all my effort. Pingometer. Tunneling golden ... telling MP to eat shit. Such a shame.

[Golden]

I like lots of questions being asked, I think it helps. But I also think the nature of the questions matter. I think there needs to be an intent or purpose behind each question. Something you want to learn. Do you agree with that?

I agree in general, but that won't apply to Day 1. I have found through trial and error, the more questions you ask, the more content you produce, and the more difficult it is for scum to hide. Honestly, sometimes I don't care who is arguing about what even if I see it as two townies going at each other. Content is generated, people will leave trails, some may slip even if we can't see it immediately. The priority early on in the game is to get as many people talking as possible. That's how I play mafia, and that's why I can end up with a few hundred posts in one early phase.

I like your style.

It is my belief that day one is the most important day.

This doesn’t give you a civ read though, because I believe it’s NAI. But it’s a good answer.

[MacDougall]

I figured you out Golden. Now that I know you are Rhys Darby, if I read your posts in his voice they seem way less malevolent and instead just make you come across like a goofy huckster.

[Golden]

Sloppy -> Scumtell
Random voting -> Scumtell

No to both. These are weak-ass reasons for any vote. This is basically the definition of confusing 'weird' with 'bad'. This is like a list of reasons for all the mislynches on sig, marmot and wilgy over the years.

I'm being 'sloppy' because I'm having fun, and my vote wasn't in the slightest bit random but was in fact very carefully considered. It just wasn't because I suspect sloonei.

Through it all, I challenge you to accuse me of lack of meaningful content, because I think you'll find I've already got more than most everyone else in the thread.

Full stop the trireme.

You're being sloppy because you're having fun, AND your vote was carefully crafted? I goin full Geppetto here and calling Pinnochio on your ass. To say that you are thinking through your actions while also acting like you're operating from the seat of your pants is bollox, my golden child. You can defend and explain away your merits/metas/reasoning/what-have-you but how can you carefully consider your vote? That sounds unlikely and maybe a bit flippant.

I never fly by the seat of my pants. This is pretty much my point. If one thinks me being ‘sloppy’ isn’t intentional one don’t know me that well.

It’s absolutely being flippant. There’s very little to date in this game I’ve taken seriously so far - the full extent is probably a couple of posts to Mac where I let the facade slide for a minute.

[MacDougall]

See. At first that post annoyed me. But then I imagined Rhys Darby saying it and presto ... it became funny.

[Dom]

Yo scroeys.

2Dom. I was doing the Pingometer when in catch up mode to measure mystic Mac's most magnificent day 1 gut pings. Once caught up I became too involved in back and forthing to keep up with it. I would have ended up in column ax with the amount of Golden pings.

Also I'm sorry. I told MP to eat shit purely out of love and irony. I wouldn't say that to someone I thought would take it the wrong way.

And ... I can't remember anyone else actually posing me a question in dat catchup. After all my effort. Pingometer. Tunneling golden ... telling MP to eat shit. Such a shame.

Nothing you have said has bothered me, I was just using it as a comparision for when I was told I was being childish and too snarky for joking about meaningless phrases.

[Golden]

I agree on nova. But he’s also a newbie to me.

The difference of opinion I have is that I actually agree with nova. Sigs post was just a big no u and I don’t think it was a great post from sig either. But what’s the value in calling out the no u in question form? To me it’s like the old lawyer tenet ‘never ask a question you don’t know the answer to’. They’re probably amongst the safest questions asked in the thread.

While true, sig is willing to get dirty there. I don't feel like it's safe at all. Are there any posts he has made in this thread that make you feel he might not be a wolf in sheep's clothing?

Not yet but there’s time and I won’t vote someone I haven’t played with beforeon day one (that goes for dunya too)

[Golden]

Bro, I was scum in Talking Heads. Try again. If you're going to try to discredit my points because you feel there is a pattern to me incorrectly scum reading you as town so far you've only pointed at a game I was scum and a game you were indie.

Ha, well I didn’t remember that bit.

Look, if you can name a time you’ve ever read me as bad and been right I’ll hand it to you. I don’t believe it exists. This is the reason I’m saying throw out your tellson me - but again you can only do what you’re comfortable doing.

No man. That's not how this works. I made accusations of you and you tried to discredit me by claiming I misread you all the time. You have failed to show evidence of that. Evidence of me previously reading you well is not required here as I have a good amount of your own posts right here that speak for themselves so I don't need to point at any mystical ability to read you. This is not me making random gut reads on people and pointing at mystic Mac powers. This is you making posts, me finding them suspect, and me finding your reactions as supporting my perspective.

I wouldn't ask of anyone to show evidence that they've caught you before to prove that they make good cases on you. Besides, and I will say it again, even if you HAVE evidence that I read you poorly consistently:

a) It's outdated, it's old
b) I put it to you, that the vast majority of anybody's reads are wrong
c) It's such a small sample size that the two immediate games that sprung to your mind, you were indie in one and I was scum in the other

Moving on. I've made my points. I hope people read them and comment. It would be a shame if they were skimmed.

You don’t get it. I’m not defending myself. I’m trying to help you read me better.

Anyone who knows me well will probably be reading me as hard town by now. This playstyle does not exist on my baddie spectrum at all.

You can choose to do with it what you will but... if you don’t listen this time, please don’t forget. Remember next time.

If only this game were so easy.

The objective of good scum play is to play like you do when town Golden. These types of comments just do not appeal to me.

The objective of my civ game is to maintain multiple cub metas so that when I want to I can be easily identified as civ because, for example, I’m very busy in real life, but without compromising on my ability to win as scum because it looks like my cleaner, more cautious civ meta.

Messy golden is always civ golden. Book it.

But you just made that post a few pages ago breaking down that what other people view as "messy" is actually just 'fun' and simultenously carefully thought-out.

If these things weren’t collectively true, I’d have a messy scum meta as well.

Don’t trust my self-meta read, just apply it to your own knowledge of me. No one who doesn’t know me should trust it, those who do know me should think about it,

[Jackofhearts2005]

No Bersercar Hercules? Shame.

[Golden]

If.

Not really lynch worthy though is it?

I concur.

Epi lays low as scum, sure, but he's useful as town. Game has actually been going for less than 24 hours, finals for schoolteachers are approaching, etc. Epi hasn't been super active this weekend either, and has had company if I remember right.

I'm not going to lay a lazy vote on Epi for activity, and I caution against wasting your time with it today.

Is it lazy to vote someone for lack of activity? I don’t particularly like this post. Why so passionate about epi when he only has two votes?

[Golden]

every game Dom has been in with me, he ended up being inactive so this is actually the first time I get to play with him and I'm not at all familiar with his meta. from what I have heard, this seems to be Dom being Dom.

I have to qualify this by admitting I suck badly at reading dom. But there’s nothing there that worries me so far.

[Golden]

from a tone POV I'm not sure I actually believe she believes what she's saying about him.

MP said this about dunya and I find this interesting since it is virtually identical to the objection I just felt in my conversation with dunya.

So, the question is... to those that know dunya, is this our lack of knowledge of her? Dunya's questions *feel* hollow to me, is this me trying to project dunya onto sloonei or something?

Sloonei, actually, it's possible you are best placed to answer this. Interested in Choutas' view too.

I'm not sure I understand the question, but dunya is usually a very sincere player. Her early game is pretty similar to my own and Jay's, for a a couple of examples, and she's a player that becomes easier to read one way or the other as the game goes on.

She can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe English is not her first language (though she is certainly fluent) and I've seen this lead to in-game miscommunications more than once.

I would characterise many of her questions as hollow, that is not leading anywhere, but she’s explained her philosophy well in a way that could explain this. Do you think it’s common for her day one question to be hollow, or to put it another way that they have no intent behind them other than asking questions for the sake of it as a means of generating something, as town?

[Epignosis]

The gods have blocked my way;
They have tethered my tongue in my time of toil.
Two fools have set out to punish me
For the capriciousness of the gods
Who have wreaked an ancient Iberian curse upon me:
No puedo publicar en el trabajo

[Jackofhearts2005]

Hey, Golden. You’re town, right?

Who should I vote for?

[Lunalee]

Spoiler: show

Spoiler: show

GTH/POE Day 1 MP Rainbow:

Strong town:
Golden

Moderate town:
Macdougall
Scotty

Slight town:
Choutas
sig
Sloonei
Speedchuck

No clue:
ColinIsCool
Dom
Epignosis
Jackofhearts2005
Kites
Kylemii
lapluie
Long Con
Lunalee
Marmot
Spacedaisy
Turnip Head
wolbre04

Not quite a mafia read but I'm wary of:
dunya
novaselinenever

If you are in the No clue section, help me and the rest of us out here ASAP! Please and thanks. It should be somewhat easier today since I'll be gone for a while.

Though I guess if I'm trying to GTH myself as much as possible, based entirely on tone, I guess I could move my reads of Kites, Turnip Head, and wolbre04 to the slight town section. I want to see more from them though and I don't feel comfortable committing to those because they're based on so little.

Alright, fuck with those Persians while I'm gone. I want to see scared Persians when I get back.

It looks like alliance claiming is a tricky thing in this game. But I'll do my best to help you out!

Someone's following along the thread and has only commented when called upon. Not a good look

Haha, that's just how I do things, Scotty. It's day zero and I don't have much to add to the discussion. Not to worry though, I'll get my analysis glasses on before the poll is up so I can place my vote, and I'll keep you informed. :P

[Golden]

Not that I've had a problem with Mac.

sig is just personally attacking me instead of looking at the content of the post because he has nothing to say.

I’m getting tiwnie vibes from dom around this point.

[Epignosis]

It's Day 1 now. Change that. Make those Persian bastards tremble.

Men need not change the hour to change his enemies' bowels to water.

[wolbre04]

I do not like the fact that several people haven't really posted much tbh, if they're all town it burns even more

Which several people are you singling out?

Yeah jack primarily, kites posted some but hadn't been in for awhile. Otherwise people being gone for everything after the first hour or two of day 1 is concerning to me as they could have some critical knowledge or read, etc

linki: Jack is viewing the thread

This isn't shade tbh I just am prodding ppl

[Golden]

I like wolbre so far. Town read.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Oh don’t worry, I’m scum.

[Golden]

Hey, Golden. You’re town, right?

Who should I vote for?

I'm more creating a list of who you shouldn't vote for.

Off the top of my head it includes MP, Mac, dunya, sig, scotty - these guys are creating content. Also liking wolbre so far, and if Epi is cursed then not him either.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Nice to meet you Wolbre.

I was joking earlier. I’m always town. Statistical fact.

What’s your story? Or has that been posted already?

[Jackofhearts2005]

Hey, Golden. You’re town, right?

Who should I vote for?

I'm more creating a list of who you shouldn't vote for.

Off the top of my head it includes MP, Mac, dunya, sig, scotty - these guys are creating content. Also liking wolbre so far, and if Epi is cursed then not him either.

I wasn’t gonna vote for them anyway except maybe MP. This is no help at all.

[Golden]

OK, I'm beginning to feel better about dunya overall. The fact several other people come to the same conclusion I do actually makes me relax a little - I see it as more likely to be her playstyle rather than an alignment-indicative thing that's been caught.

[Golden]

Hey, Golden. You’re town, right?

Who should I vote for?

I'm more creating a list of who you shouldn't vote for.

Off the top of my head it includes MP, Mac, dunya, sig, scotty - these guys are creating content. Also liking wolbre so far, and if Epi is cursed then not him either.

I wasn’t gonna vote for them anyway except maybe MP. This is no help at all.

I make no promises to be at all helpful.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Remember everyone, if Dunya posts a ton, she cannot be mafia.

[dunya]

Remember everyone, if Dunya posts a ton, she cannot be mafia.

[Golden]

every game Dom has been in with me, he ended up being inactive so this is actually the first time I get to play with him and I'm not at all familiar with his meta. from what I have heard, this seems to be Dom being Dom.

But your vote is currently on him.

Weird how I was inactive and people discussed my meta.

I'll elaborate on this.

She's heard of my meta in games I never really played in? Really, my meta came up?

suspect af. who in btsc gave you an idea of my meta?

nah you were compared to other players to me in discord in the past when we were OT discussing prolific Syndicate mafia players.

I side with Dom in this exchange actually. there’s no accountability for either side but how sweet it would be if dunya did just scumslip.

Im keeping this one in my back pocket

Someone like [mention]spacedaisy[/mention] is in discord enough that she might know.

[Golden]

I found two scum on day one. Speedchuck and Epi are a team, and...

Sorry, fam, thought I was DharmaHelper for a second.

[ColinIsCool]

I should let you all know that I just started a new job so I have less time overall right now, and if it seems like I'm lurking, I more than likely just haven't seen the thread yet.

Hello, it’s good to be playing with you again. Got any thoughts on things so far?

Up to this quoted post, nothing seems alignment indicative to me. If anything, town arguing with town, but I'm not comfortable labeling anybody yet. I kinda hate this initial phase because it's really just

[ColinIsCool]

Holy wow, you people have posted a lot.

[Dom]

:hmm:

Epi's curse seems random af

[Golden]

Also wolbre and I are from the same original site, we've aldo played on mu once together. However, every game we've played together I've been mafia or independent so I never really bothered to learn his meta.

I don't believe he's ever been mafia and is still new to mafia as a whole compared to all of us, he's also deadily as an independent and in my opinion if he's one of those three trading guys he'll side with mafia for the lolz.

But no one asked about wolbre yet.

Good to know nonetheless. Looking forward to playing with you, wolbre!

I don't like this post its weird, light scum ping on MP

What don't you like about it ? Him calling you out ?

How much history do you have with sig, nova? (Serious question, btw).

Serious answer, I have none. This is our first time playing together I think.

In that case I rescind my ping on your questioning.

[speedchuck]

If.

Not really lynch worthy though is it?

I concur.

Epi lays low as scum, sure, but he's useful as town. Game has actually been going for less than 24 hours, finals for schoolteachers are approaching, etc. Epi hasn't been super active this weekend either, and has had company if I remember right.

I'm not going to lay a lazy vote on Epi for activity, and I caution against wasting your time with it today.

Is it lazy to vote someone for lack of activity?* I don’t particularly like this post.** Why so passionate about epi when he only has two votes?***

*It is for me.
**Aw. It's okay. I didn't make it to please you.
***I don't think I'm passionate about it. That's just the way I write. With aggressiveness and passion. Yes, that kind of passion. Why else would I play mafia?

[speedchuck]

:hmm:

Epi's curse seems random af

Unless it's in *secrets*, I don't think it's on the role list.

Methinks he's faking it?

[Golden]

:hmm:

Epi's curse seems random af

Unless it's in *secrets*, I don't think it's on the role list.

Methinks he's faking it?

Jay is not the kind of host who would randomly introduce mechanics, I don't think, so it's likely to be role connected or nothing at all.

[Epignosis]

so many 1 posters and some no posters still. I can't prod you all, but I am looking at you with my big, magnificent eyes. We have like 36 hours to make a decision so get in here and tell us what you make of the thread so far.

It's big.

[novaselinenever]

Also wolbre and I are from the same original site, we've aldo played on mu once together. However, every game we've played together I've been mafia or independent so I never really bothered to learn his meta.

I don't believe he's ever been mafia and is still new to mafia as a whole compared to all of us, he's also deadily as an independent and in my opinion if he's one of those three trading guys he'll side with mafia for the lolz.

But no one asked about wolbre yet.

Good to know nonetheless. Looking forward to playing with you, wolbre!

I don't like this post its weird, light scum ping on MP

What don't you like about it ? Him calling you out ?

How much history do you have with sig, nova? (Serious question, btw).

Serious answer, I have none. This is our first time playing together I think.

In that case I rescind my ping on your questioning.

It appears I was wrong and he corrected me. We played 2 games on here together but we never interacted. I was also inactive in both so it was my fault lol.

[Golden]

Doesn't matter nova - I believe your perspective was honest.