Retrocausality Mafia - ENDGAME: A Reprieve in the Desert

[Golden]

did sig claim to be unlynchable?

Yeah, but he pretty much walked it back under pressure and in the end I think 'unlynchable' was simply code for 'can trigger an event where he vanishes and restarts the day'.

is sig not really dead then?

No one is dead when they vanish... they can always potentially pop back up.

But in sig's case, I think him popping back up is part of the event in which he vanished. I dare say he.... travelled through time.

[Golden]

I see what golden is seeing in lunalee, if sig was mafia then luna makes sense as a teammate

I don't agree with her meta defense, if she were teammates with sig then she would still have to respond to the sig quin inh thing in some way, it was the main topic of conversation for a big chunk of time. avoiding discussing it completely would be weird.

im also realizing i skipped reading like 6 or 7 pages of content at some point whoops

I agree, it's pretty hard to avoid.

But she could have avoided sig's election.

The real questions are:

1) Is this similar to her last baddie game?
2) Can you have a meta after one baddie game?

[speedchuck]

First of all, the host can kiss my ass for putting "Sig" in the thread title.

[Golden]

Hoo boy, sig campaigning on day one is problematic. Did we ever have any indication that there would be night elections before he brought it up?

[Epignosis]

A brief Luna/sig interactive iso. Luna has a total of 19 posts before Quin dropped his bombshell, including:

Spoiler: show

@sig , what's with that "poker face" smiley you keep using?

@sig , @Quin , if you're going to self-vote, at least give us a good reason to support you or not.

Night is half over and I'm missing a loooooot of night actions.

Never submit night actions that's my policy. Why hide your actions? I never do I'll tell you straight up what I plan to do. Which is why a vote for sig is a vote for open night actions. No more hiding no more fear no more control. Vote Sig a player you can trust.

Sig, your campaigning is gold. I'm voting for you. I believe I can count on you to sign that Bill of Rights with the most beautiful signature

[VOTE: sig] aubergine

Haha, bravo sig.

These quotes account for my 'gut feel' of luna being a teammate of sig. They have a 'team banter' vibe to them.

After Quin's bombshell, Luna's next two posts are:

Spoiler: show

Either way the idea of lynching me since I said I couldn't be lynched doesn't seem townie.

And this is complete bullshit

I called your bluff and now you're worried.

Glad I called it.

I think there's a decent chance you are a baddie who gains in power over time, and you're trying to delay being lynched for some reason. You've made claims of being indestructible and said you weren't worried about your campaign putting a target on your back for that reason. You said you weren't worried about being lynched because you won't be lynched. But I can smell the fear on your breath from here.

This is what I was thinking. It might be safest to lynch sig.

Wait, why are you folks lynching sig? I need to catch up.

That's a very strange backtrack.

And then we get this progression:

Spoiler: show

Spoiler: show

Sig is your apparent inability to be lynched literally just today that it won't work?

Oh it'll work whenever I want, but it would be a waste for it to be used today. I won't have enough time in this timeline to make it worthwhile basically.

Sig are you a civilian? Yes or no?

If you are a civilian what will be the outcome of lynching you today? Is the outcome positive or negative? Why?

If you are a civilian does your continued existence beyond day 3 reap any benefit to the civilian cause?

Yes

there's no outcome of lynching me today since it won't happen but if it did it would be negative since you'd loose a civ, but there wouldn't be some cataclysmic event

yes in the sense that I'd be here to post and engage. However, it's not like some role actives if I'm alive after day 3.

Also I think y'all might've read a little bit to deep into my d/n 1 posts.

So if we attempt to lynch you today, it just fails? Or it redirects? Does the second person get lynched instead? What do you expect the outcome to be? Just your continued existence and a fart video?

So you are saying that all of your role stops being relevant come day 3?

If you are a civilian then us wasting a lynch on you here is a bad idea. Given we have several other people who have role claimed, perhaps the civilian duty you have here is to actually just enlighten us as to what it is that you do?

1. Everything resets and I leave you all for a better land BUT I wouldn't have been lynched.

2. No my role is relevant until I use it

3. I told you I can't be lynched that's my role power.

IF you try you fail and the timeline will be disrupted resulting in chaos. Or that's the theory anyway.

Also just to be clear if you tried to lynhc me day 3 it would also fail, but it would've been the optimal time for me to active my power. Or that's what I thought at first.

I don't really want to lynch sig today. I didn't know quite what to think of his claims earlier, but now I feel like he's being genuine.

Also, I thought it was basically confirmed that INH was third-party. Is that a problem for town? Why is he tied with sig? I feel like we can do better than this.

Let's do something more fun.

sig and INH are Booker DeWitt and Comstock. That is to say, both have been swept away by the Luteces. They're not here.

Who gets your vote and why?

Yes, I want to step away from the sig and INH drama. I feel it is distracting us from actually getting a scum lynch. Didn't Quin start this whole thing? I don't know if I want to keep Quin around. I feel like he introduced a class-A distraction to get suspicions off of his team.

I think potentially the worst look in here is 'I feel like we can do better than this' when we've been presented with a potential 50/50 shot. What's the size of the team - 3 or 4? So you'd have no more than a 25% shot the rest of the time...

Then:

[VOTE: Quin] aubergine [citation]

and

I'm going to put my vote on INH because I don't like how defensive he got about his role. But that makes a tie between him and sig. Ugh.

It's worth noting that last post is AFTER sig triggered the event but before it took place.

Looking through Luna's iso as a whole, I tend to find that she is team compatible with sig, and that's where my vote is going for now.

[VOTE: Lunalee] aubergine

Hi Golden. This is an excellent review of my posts. For some reason I completely forgot what was going on with sig when I hoped back in here and saw he was being lynched. My bad. I should have read my own posts it seems. Despite that misunderstanding, I want to clarify that if sig and I were mafia teammates in this game, I would have distanced myself from this whole Quin-sig-INH drama. And I would not have so openly posted my opinions on the matter. My scum-strategy when suspicion is being thrown on a teammate is to quietly step away.

Consider the underlined.

I want us all to think on this.

Because if I'm bad in this one, I wouldn't care how much or how little I interacted with my teammates, because in this one everything's made up and the flips don't matter. The mafia have it easy in how they interact with one another, and here, Lunalee has defended herself as though flipping is a thing. What she would do in a typical scenario shouldn't apply here, but she went on defending herself as though this is a typical setup.

I want opinions on that.

On the other hand, squint a minute:

Hi Golden. This is an excellent review of my posts. For some reason I completely forgot what was going on with sig when I hoped back in here and saw he was being lynched. My bad. I should have read my own posts it seems. Despite that misunderstanding, I want to clarify that if sig and I were mafia teammates in this game, I would have distanced myself from this whole Quin-sig-INH drama. And I would not have so openly posted my opinions on the matter. My scum-strategy when suspicion is being thrown on a teammate is to quietly step away.

You see that?

No you don't. Look harder.

Golden's entire analysis is predicated on sig being bad. In everything I've seen from Lunalee, it's as though she takes for granted that sig was bad, and she knew it. Because if someone wants to have a go at me for my interactions with someone who has an unknown alignment, I'll flip tables. I see no table flipping.

But please, discuss the other section (or this one) if you will.

[Kylemii]

Fine. You all win, I'll do what you want. Against my own feelings on this. [VOTE: lunalee] aubergine

You have someone who has claimed openly to not be civ aligned, and you want to believe them and possibly allow them the space to do what they want. We'll see how this goes. I hope you all are right.

if it makes you feel any better you've given me a lot to think about in regards to trusting or not trusting TH.

[speedchuck]

Hoo boy, sig campaigning on day one is problematic. Did we ever have any indication that there would be night elections before he brought it up?

It was even in the sign-up topic

[Lunalee]

Do we really think there are three town-aligned doctors in this game?

nah

This bothers me too. Wasn't it MacDougal, Scotty, and Epi? One of them may get my vote today.

meh. they don't have to be bad.

So what's the point of claiming doctor then, unless it's a cover-up?

[Epignosis]

Do we really think there are three town-aligned doctors in this game?

nah

This bothers me too. Wasn't it MacDougal, Scotty, and Epi? One of them may get my vote today.

meh. they don't have to be bad.

So what's the point of claiming doctor then, unless it's a cover-up?

A cover up for that?

[Epignosis]

*A cover up for what?

[Lunalee]

Fine. You all win, I'll do what you want. Against my own feelings on this. [VOTE: lunalee] aubergine

You have someone who has claimed openly to not be civ aligned, and you want to believe them and possibly allow them the space to do what they want. We'll see how this goes. I hope you all are right.

Someone holding a gun to your head, spacedaisy? blink twice if you need help.

[Spacedaisy]

The only surprise in his early campaign is that his own claimed destination then came up. I looked back after my first post and saw Night Elections are in the set up.

[Lunalee]

*A cover up for what?

A cover-up for a more sinister role.

[Epignosis]

*A cover up for what?

A cover-up for a more sinister role.

And "doctor" was the best anybody could do?

[ColinIsCool]

Golden, your arguments since I asked for more have been more persuasive, but I’m now hung up on this: if TH is indie, what reason do we have to believe keeping him is to our advantage (aside from numbers)? When do we get rid of him? LYLO?

[Lunalee]

*A cover up for what?

A cover-up for a more sinister role.

And "doctor" was the best anybody could do?

I don't know, you claimed doctor too, right? Why?

[Golden]

Oh yeah, the rules said there would be 'night elections'.

There's nothing in that post which suggests sig knew we were going to the bill of rights, but he did talk about being 'president'. Hmm.

[Golden]

Golden, your arguments since I asked for more have been more persuasive, but I’m now hung up on this: if TH is indie, what reason do we have to believe keeping him is to our advantage (aside from numbers)? When do we get rid of him? LYLO?

I would get rid of TH if I ever come to a point in time where I believe keeping him is not to our advantage. But I tend to think that it's only worth getting rid of an indy if I have reason to believe their win con isn't consistent with town win-cons, because many independents who can choose to work with the town do choose to.

[Golden]

The only surprise in his early campaign is that his own claimed destination then came up. I looked back after my first post and saw Night Elections are in the set up.

The question I'm mulling over is whether a role exists that can control what comes up.

[Golden]

Golden's entire analysis is predicated on sig being bad. In everything I've seen from Lunalee, it's as though she takes for granted that sig was bad, and she knew it. Because if someone wants to have a go at me for my interactions with someone who has an unknown alignment, I'll flip tables. I see no table flipping.

But please, discuss the other section (or this one) if you will.

I'm not persuaded that Luna is a table-flipping kind of person, and I also don't see anything which suggests pre-knowledge that sig is bad (as opposed to just presuming it, which is sort of necessary to respond to my case), but do you see something in particular that I'm missing?

[sprityo]

so that's it then? assume TH is working in the interest of town?

look dont let me say i told you so when he soup kills like three people at once

[sprityo]

AKA, i think he's a good candidate for tomorrows lynch

[Lunalee]

Golden's entire analysis is predicated on sig being bad. In everything I've seen from Lunalee, it's as though she takes for granted that sig was bad, and she knew it. Because if someone wants to have a go at me for my interactions with someone who has an unknown alignment, I'll flip tables. I see no table flipping.

But please, discuss the other section (or this one) if you will.

I'm not persuaded that Luna is a table-flipping kind of person, and I also don't see anything which suggests pre-knowledge that sig is bad (as opposed to just presuming it, which is sort of necessary to respond to my case), but do you see something in particular that I'm missing?

I didn't assume sig was bad. And I still have no idea, since he's vanished. But given his role, (reseting the day lynch), it sort of makes him look town.

[MacDougall]

I disagree. My whole point is how very much I disagree.

Idgi

She is worried that TH is going to get some badass ability by surviving until tomorrow that will cause a big threat to us.

Yeah nah

[Golden]

I disagree. My whole point is how very much I disagree.

Idgi

She is worried that TH is going to get some badass ability by surviving until tomorrow that will cause a big threat to us.

Yeah nah

Yeah I just can’t see it. You don’t out yourself as Indy when you could just as easily wait it out.

[MacDougall]

Yeah yeah Lunalee is bad, she's confirmed sig was bad and then we lynch Lapluie and Spacedaisy and we win the game.

[Spacedaisy]

No [mention]Lunalee[/mention] no gun to my head. Although that was a funny response, I laughed. I feel pretty sure that this is a good case against you and I'm behind it. I just don't like leaving a claimed 3P alone to do his thing assuming his claim is true.

Especially when that someone is TH. Who played Storyville or whatever that mafia game was that Shinny ran on LP all those years ago. Where he was a SK, the Big Bad Wolf. And self targeted with his kill in order to try and mechanically clear himself. He pretty much became an FEB legend after that, despite it not working. But we've forgotten that side of TH here because he's started playing laid back and jokey. Looking as nonthreatening as possible. No matter what affiliation. I don't like his claim and I don't understand this willingness to just let him do his thing. But I do trust Golden. And clearly most people don't see it like me, Colin and sprityo. So I'll give in and vote for the other person I believe is bad. Because hey, I could be wrong to be suspicious of him.

[MacDougall]

Spacedaisy I'm a cop and I got a red peek on you last night. Thanks for playing.

[Epignosis]

*A cover up for what?

A cover-up for a more sinister role.

And "doctor" was the best anybody could do?

I don't know, you claimed doctor too, right? Why?

Because it's fun and makes people think.

[Spacedaisy]

Spacedaisy I'm a cop and I got a red peek on you last night. Thanks for playing.

No you aren't and no you didn't because that is a bullshit statement and you know it. I am civ.

[Scotty]

Spacedaisy I'm a cop and I got a red peek on you last night. Thanks for playing.

wat

[Quin]

er.....

that's not a bad point actually

as great as the case is, i'd be fine with either or. TH is claiming 3P and that secures us one less infraction to worry about as town

I will never understand the "lynch all independents" mindset.

[Quin]

I see what golden is seeing in lunalee, if sig was mafia then luna makes sense as a teammate

I don't agree with her meta defense, if she were teammates with sig then she would still have to respond to the sig quin inh thing in some way, it was the main topic of conversation for a big chunk of time. avoiding discussing it completely would be weird.

im also realizing i skipped reading like 6 or 7 pages of content at some point whoops

I agree, it's pretty hard to avoid.

But she could have avoided sig's election.

The real questions are:

1) Is this similar to her last baddie game?
2) Can you have a meta after one baddie game?

I don't think so. But you can have a meta after numerous civ games.

[Spacedaisy]

Mac's lying. The question is whether he is lying as a baddie or lying as a civ. People like MP and SVS have lied as civs about red peeks before to get someone lynched they strongly believed were bad. SVS did it successfully, MP did is unsucessfully. I am unsure which I believe about Mac here. Because it boils down to the fact he is lying.

[Quin]

Hoo boy, sig campaigning on day one is problematic. Did we ever have any indication that there would be night elections before he brought it up?

Yes. In the host post.

[ColinIsCool]

Turbup Head has a short, short leash.

[VOTE: LUNALEE] aubergine

[Quin]

A brief Luna/sig interactive iso. Luna has a total of 19 posts before Quin dropped his bombshell, including:

Spoiler: show

@sig , what's with that "poker face" smiley you keep using?

@sig , @Quin , if you're going to self-vote, at least give us a good reason to support you or not.

Night is half over and I'm missing a loooooot of night actions.

Never submit night actions that's my policy. Why hide your actions? I never do I'll tell you straight up what I plan to do. Which is why a vote for sig is a vote for open night actions. No more hiding no more fear no more control. Vote Sig a player you can trust.

Sig, your campaigning is gold. I'm voting for you. I believe I can count on you to sign that Bill of Rights with the most beautiful signature

[VOTE: sig] aubergine

Haha, bravo sig.

These quotes account for my 'gut feel' of luna being a teammate of sig. They have a 'team banter' vibe to them.

After Quin's bombshell, Luna's next two posts are:

Spoiler: show

Either way the idea of lynching me since I said I couldn't be lynched doesn't seem townie.

And this is complete bullshit

I called your bluff and now you're worried.

Glad I called it.

I think there's a decent chance you are a baddie who gains in power over time, and you're trying to delay being lynched for some reason. You've made claims of being indestructible and said you weren't worried about your campaign putting a target on your back for that reason. You said you weren't worried about being lynched because you won't be lynched. But I can smell the fear on your breath from here.

This is what I was thinking. It might be safest to lynch sig.

Wait, why are you folks lynching sig? I need to catch up.

That's a very strange backtrack.

And then we get this progression:

Spoiler: show

Spoiler: show

Sig is your apparent inability to be lynched literally just today that it won't work?

Oh it'll work whenever I want, but it would be a waste for it to be used today. I won't have enough time in this timeline to make it worthwhile basically.

Yes

there's no outcome of lynching me today since it won't happen but if it did it would be negative since you'd loose a civ, but there wouldn't be some cataclysmic event

yes in the sense that I'd be here to post and engage. However, it's not like some role actives if I'm alive after day 3.

Also I think y'all might've read a little bit to deep into my d/n 1 posts.

So if we attempt to lynch you today, it just fails? Or it redirects? Does the second person get lynched instead? What do you expect the outcome to be? Just your continued existence and a fart video?

So you are saying that all of your role stops being relevant come day 3?

If you are a civilian then us wasting a lynch on you here is a bad idea. Given we have several other people who have role claimed, perhaps the civilian duty you have here is to actually just enlighten us as to what it is that you do?

1. Everything resets and I leave you all for a better land BUT I wouldn't have been lynched.

2. No my role is relevant until I use it

3. I told you I can't be lynched that's my role power.

IF you try you fail and the timeline will be disrupted resulting in chaos. Or that's the theory anyway.

Also just to be clear if you tried to lynhc me day 3 it would also fail, but it would've been the optimal time for me to active my power. Or that's what I thought at first.

I don't really want to lynch sig today. I didn't know quite what to think of his claims earlier, but now I feel like he's being genuine.

Also, I thought it was basically confirmed that INH was third-party. Is that a problem for town? Why is he tied with sig? I feel like we can do better than this.

Let's do something more fun.

sig and INH are Booker DeWitt and Comstock. That is to say, both have been swept away by the Luteces. They're not here.

Who gets your vote and why?

Yes, I want to step away from the sig and INH drama. I feel it is distracting us from actually getting a scum lynch. Didn't Quin start this whole thing? I don't know if I want to keep Quin around. I feel like he introduced a class-A distraction to get suspicions off of his team.

I think potentially the worst look in here is 'I feel like we can do better than this' when we've been presented with a potential 50/50 shot. What's the size of the team - 3 or 4? So you'd have no more than a 25% shot the rest of the time...

Then:

[VOTE: Quin] aubergine [citation]

and

I'm going to put my vote on INH because I don't like how defensive he got about his role. But that makes a tie between him and sig. Ugh.

It's worth noting that last post is AFTER sig triggered the event but before it took place.

Looking through Luna's iso as a whole, I tend to find that she is team compatible with sig, and that's where my vote is going for now.

[VOTE: Lunalee] aubergine

Hi Golden. This is an excellent review of my posts. For some reason I completely forgot what was going on with sig when I hoped back in here and saw he was being lynched. My bad. I should have read my own posts it seems. Despite that misunderstanding, I want to clarify that if sig and I were mafia teammates in this game, I would have distanced myself from this whole Quin-sig-INH drama. And I would not have so openly posted my opinions on the matter. My scum-strategy when suspicion is being thrown on a teammate is to quietly step away.

Consider the underlined.

I want us all to think on this.

Because if I'm bad in this one, I wouldn't care how much or how little I interacted with my teammates, because in this one everything's made up and the flips don't matter. The mafia have it easy in how they interact with one another, and here, Lunalee has defended herself as though flipping is a thing. What she would do in a typical scenario shouldn't apply here, but she went on defending herself as though this is a typical setup.

I want opinions on that.

On the other hand, squint a minute:

Hi Golden. This is an excellent review of my posts. For some reason I completely forgot what was going on with sig when I hoped back in here and saw he was being lynched. My bad. I should have read my own posts it seems. Despite that misunderstanding, I want to clarify that if sig and I were mafia teammates in this game, I would have distanced myself from this whole Quin-sig-INH drama. And I would not have so openly posted my opinions on the matter. My scum-strategy when suspicion is being thrown on a teammate is to quietly step away.

You see that?

No you don't. Look harder.

Golden's entire analysis is predicated on sig being bad. In everything I've seen from Lunalee, it's as though she takes for granted that sig was bad, and she knew it. Because if someone wants to have a go at me for my interactions with someone who has an unknown alignment, I'll flip tables. I see no table flipping.

But please, discuss the other section (or this one) if you will.

I haven't come into this game with a unique mindset myself. But I am also very stupid.

[Epignosis]

Golden's entire analysis is predicated on sig being bad. In everything I've seen from Lunalee, it's as though she takes for granted that sig was bad, and she knew it. Because if someone wants to have a go at me for my interactions with someone who has an unknown alignment, I'll flip tables. I see no table flipping.

But please, discuss the other section (or this one) if you will.

I'm not persuaded that Luna is a table-flipping kind of person, and I also don't see anything which suggests pre-knowledge that sig is bad (as opposed to just presuming it, which is sort of necessary to respond to my case), but do you see something in particular that I'm missing?

Not necessarily. I want alternatives to the current theory. If there exists any evidence whatsoever in Lunalee's favor, that should be brought forth.

[MacDougall]

Mac's lying. The question is whether he is lying as a baddie or lying as a civ. People like MP and SVS have lied as civs about red peeks before to get someone lynched they strongly believed were bad. SVS did it successfully, MP did is unsucessfully. I am unsure which I believe about Mac here. Because it boils down to the fact he is lying.

Lying about what?

Spacedaisy I'm a cop and I got a red peek on you last night. Thanks for playing.

No you aren't and no you didn't because that is a bullshit statement and you know it. I am civ.

Sorry I am confused?

[Quin]

On that though, If Luna is a civilian and thinks sig is scum, it makes sense that she wouldn't be flipping tables over it. Because to do so would be like disregarding her own opinion on the matter.

[Spacedaisy]

Here's the thing Mac, if you are civ, you just took both yourself and me out of the game with that fake claim. Way to go, two civs down in one short BS post. I recommend you own up to the fact that was a fake red peek claim.

[MacDougall]

Here's the thing Mac, if you are civ, you just took both yourself and me out of the game with that fake claim. Way to go, two civs down in one short BS post. I recommend you own up to the fact that was a fake red peek claim.

Why are you taking what was such a flippant comment and obvious joke so seriously? Thou doth protest too much.

[MacDougall]

I dunno about y'all but if I was on the receiving end of that I would have replied with something to the effect of:

LOL
Kek
Lolkek
Hahaha
or perhaps one of our amazing selection of emojis.

[Epignosis]

Tables must be flipped, especially if they are

Spoiler: show

times tables

[Quin]

Do we really think there are three town-aligned doctors in this game?

nah

This bothers me too. Wasn't it MacDougal, Scotty, and Epi? One of them may get my vote today.

meh. they don't have to be bad.

So what's the point of claiming doctor then, unless it's a cover-up?

I could probably give you a list of 10 bullshit reasons but I'll sum it up to say that lying about a role-claim isn't necessarily a scum indicator.

Because, you see...

I'm not actually a stump.

[speedchuck]

slightly over 2 hours left

[MacDougall]

On that though, If Luna is a civilian and thinks sig is scum, it makes sense that she wouldn't be flipping tables over it. Because to do so would be like disregarding her own opinion on the matter.

This isn't really anything like what actually happened so why even say it?

[Quin]

Oh yeah, the rules said there would be 'night elections'.

There's nothing in that post which suggests sig knew we were going to the bill of rights, but he did talk about being 'president'. Hmm.

Meh. sig is American. Americans elect the president (well, not really). I don't struggle to connect the dots there.

[Spacedaisy]

No, it was not a joke post. It was a fake claim in a game with no flips. I don't protest too much, I protest exactly as much as I should and if you are civ it was an incredibly shortsighted move. Because until you admit it was lie, I have to be lynched. In a game with no flips that kind of BS statement is a mistake.

[MacDougall]

Oh yeah, the rules said there would be 'night elections'.

There's nothing in that post which suggests sig knew we were going to the bill of rights, but he did talk about being 'president'. Hmm.

Meh. sig is American. Americans elect the president (well, not really). I don't struggle to connect the dots there.

Everything that you have done in this game is pingy and suspicious to me except the part where you revealed that sig and INH are unaligned. I am starting to think that you intentionally revealed that information knowing that sig could bail if he had to and intend to ride that gravy train home.