[ENDGAME] The Shawshank Redemption Mafia

[FZ.]

I think Boo should be the one to go, because using the "I'm an easy target" is something I find baddies saying more than civs. I can't vote for him, so I'm going with Mongoose, because I really didn't like the way she voted and I don't want to vote for either Lizzie or jj now for reasons I've stated.

I'm a little concerned with Bullzeye lately. I've seen him very proactive in the other game, and giving more input on things. He's flying a little under the radar, isn't he?
And MP, this would be a really good time to hear your opinions on people.

[boo]

I feel terrible about voting JJ. No one should have to go out like that in a mafia game, IMO. And if you are indeed bad, good sir, you've played a TERRIFIC first game, it must be said. I greatly look forward to playing with you some more.

Nonetheless, a JJ vote still makes the most sense, I suppose.

I want to see what the other remaining living players have to say.

This was my point, that SVS has twisted, when if she could actually read me like she claims, she would have easily picked up on my meaning. I think she did, it just didn't serve her purpose.

I think john is bad because I think Epi would have made sure he had BTSC, and we know Mr Thomas had the civ BTSC.
In addition, I'm quite confident Eloh was Brooks, and knew for a fact that john is a sister.

I don't like lynching him for those reasons. Mine is logical, but not based on anything thread related, and therefore impossible for him to defend against. Eloh's is essentially outting, and I don't like that. But it still amounts to lynching a baddie, and passing that up is foolish, even though the reasons for lynching him are a shitty way to end a first-time players game.

SVS knew that was point my point, but decided to twist it. She is also a sister.

As for why eloh wouldn't have been hostkilled, she stuck by her weak thread-based theory (john being a sister based on llama being a sister), and never actually broke rules (she never explicitly outed, and while she said she had info, the rule is not to state the contents of PMs, not that you cannot say you got PMs). I don't like how she played it, and I think it's what got her killed, but it's within the rules so she technically did nothing wrong.

But if everyone wants to ignore that and let SVS and co take control of the game today, then by all means, the result won't come back in her favour, and assuming the roles needed survive the next night period, you can lynch her and john. I think their third is dead, or I just haven't found them. I have some beliefs about who is on shawshank, but the play of it still feels to far off to make any real sense, and discussing it won't work in my favour in this lynch since it would only have them pile on me.

[FZ.]

I feel terrible about voting JJ. No one should have to go out like that in a mafia game, IMO. And if you are indeed bad, good sir, you've played a TERRIFIC first game, it must be said. I greatly look forward to playing with you some more.

Nonetheless, a JJ vote still makes the most sense, I suppose.

I want to see what the other remaining living players have to say.

This was my point, that SVS has twisted, when if she could actually read me like she claims, she would have easily picked up on my meaning. I think she did, it just didn't serve her purpose.

I think john is bad because I think Epi would have made sure he had BTSC, and we know Mr Thomas had the civ BTSC.
In addition, I'm quite confident Eloh was Brooks, and knew for a fact that john is a sister.

I don't like lynching him for those reasons. Mine is logical, but not based on anything thread related, and therefore impossible for him to defend against. Eloh's is essentially outting, and I don't like that. But it still amounts to lynching a baddie, and passing that up is foolish, even though the reasons for lynching him are a shitty way to end a first-time players game.

SVS knew that was point my point, but decided to twist it. She is also a sister.

As for why eloh wouldn't have been hostkilled, she stuck by her weak thread-based theory (john being a sister based on llama being a sister), and never actually broke rules (she never explicitly outed, and while she said she had info, the rule is not to state the contents of PMs, not that you cannot say you got PMs). I don't like how she played it, and I think it's what got her killed, but it's within the rules so she technically did nothing wrong.

But if everyone wants to ignore that and let SVS and co take control of the game today, then by all means, the result won't come back in her favour, and assuming the roles needed survive the next night period, you can lynch her and john. I think their third is dead, or I just haven't found them. I have some beliefs about who is on shawshank, but the play of it still feels to far off to make any real sense, and discussing it won't work in my favour in this lynch since it would only have them pile on me.

I'm still here, though leaving in a sec. Your claims make some sense, but if I'm nor mistaken, you didn't vote for her. If you're so sure about her, and Ello said jj is not the killing sister, why didn't you vote for her? It makes no sense.

[S~V~S]

LOL, No I am not a sister. John might be, i don't know. But I DO know that you are NOT a civvie. Or civvie friendly. And you are much more dangerous than John.

And letting me take control today will rid us of what i can pretty much promise you guys is a baddie.

I promised some post analysis, and I am gonna start on that now.

linki~ good point, FZ.

[Mongoose]

LOL, No I am not a sister. John might be, i don't know. But I DO know that you are NOT a civvie. Or civvie friendly. And you are much more dangerous than John.

And letting me take control today will rid us of what i can pretty much promise you guys is a baddie.

I promised some post analysis, and I am gonna start on that now.

linki~ good point, FZ.

I keep almost switching my vote to Boo, and then remembering I can't, ha.

Someone asked me what I thought about JJ and SVS. SVS is probably civ? I really think so anyway. And JJ - I keep going back and forth on this one. I'm leery of lynching the new players too soon - someone mentioned how Syndicate is notorious for that. I am definitely keeping my eye on him for day 7 though. In fact, I've waffled internally about switching my vote to him all day long but haven't for two reasons. One is the above reason, which I think is legit and something that needs to be contemplated universally with new players.

The second: This is not something I normally do but as an ode to our host, I thought I would shake the tree a bit with my lizzy vote. While I do feel pings from her, I will admit it's not the best case. I fully intended to vote someone else today, maybe even JJ. But the weird reactions I have received to me are very indicative of protection or something else. Very fishy indeed.

Lizzy, are the sisterrrrrrs doing it for themselves?

So my vote will stand.

[S~V~S]

One thing i am noticing in rereading Boos posts is that he seems really, really interested in finding Sisters. Shawshank staff, not so much

In fact, @Epig: We can indeed discuss (any, assuming there are any) results from the Day 0 poll, correct?

The Day 0 poll results (assuming there are any) may be discussed.

So if you look at the poll info and only me and MP voted "correctly" but MP states he did not receive cigarets does that not point to him being someone who can not receive contraband therefore a baddie.

Hmm. Assuming all of the voters for the winning option were supposed to get something, that could be possible. But I don't see him having accidentally outing himself like that... but if he weren't told that he was supposed to get something, because he can't have contraband, it may not even have occurred to him that it was a possibility.

But then, you could be setting him up if you're on the baddie team that can get contraband, knowing or assuming only you did get anything for the result, and having waited for him to say he got nothing to put him in this spot.

I don't like that this is coming at the end of a day period either. Makes it feel like it's save-y. Just not sure how to put that in with the rest of it.

MP was quiet for 2 days, i believe. This would mean he COULD receive contraband, right? Although since none of this is host posted, anyone could choose to not post for a few days and imply they were silenced.

Alright, this is my quick thought, and therefore my vote.

I'm putting MR and john on the contraband getting baddie team. john pointed it out to prevent MR from taking further votes, putting them on either MP, john himself if people picked up on it, and they put it out late so john wouldn't take a bunch if that's the way things went, but could take 1 or 2 that might have went MRs way.

The division between MR taking my line on llama, and john voting for llama would be a somewhat decent d1 voting strategy.

I'm hardly convincing myself, but it's the closest to something that I can see at the moment.

voting MR

Boo says stuff like this more in this game than i have ever seen him do~ implying he is making a crappy vote, but hes gonna do it anyhow. MR was a civ, and boo was lumping them together as sisters this early in the game. I tried to find a post saying boo thought someone was Shawshank, but did not find one (although it is possible i missed it, boo, like me, likes to post in paragraphs rather than in quotey/linki posts). Has boo accused anyone of being Shawshank?

I will most likely be voting for MP today.

Anyone have a problem with that?

You can do what you want.

I'm still planning on voting for you again. I think there's a good chance you're a sister, and I think john is your teammate.

I haven't actually seen a good reason to vote MP beyond the surface of what john said d1, but that fell apart almost as soon as an actual look was taken at it. It really doesn't help your case in my eyes that you're still pushing there, since looking over your posts you haven't actually offered a reason as to why you, and more importantly, anyone else, should vote MP.

Again, this focus on the sisters continued even though he was wrong about MR. I could find no evidence that boo reconsidered after MRs lynch.

[S~V~S]

Alright... I really don't understand your behavior then MR.

And, voting for myself because I think the winner will be off the poll tomorrow.

This was his reaction post for MRs lynch. Blaming MR. He went right back to the same tactic, with no change to his ideas or viewpoints, after the MR lynch. But his case for voting MR in the first place relied on MR & John being partners. They obviously weren't.

[Bullzeye]

I'm a little concerned with Bullzeye lately. I've seen him very proactive in the other game, and giving more input on things. He's flying a little under the radar, isn't he?

I'm very busy and don't really have time for mafia. I guess I've just been paying more attention to the other game and giving it more of the limited amount of free time I have.

I don't yet know who I'll vote today, but it definitely won't be JJ. People can accuse me of being his teammate for that if they like, but either Elo was lying or she put a completely new player into a really unfair and totally indefensible position. Infodumping is not something I'm okay with, it ruins people's fun and there's no excuse for it.

[Bullzeye]

Also, if Elo's comments were true then I bet the Sisters are really annoyed they didn't get the chance to kill her themselves. I would be!

[Sorsha]

Going with a boo vote. Ill have to review the info dump that supposedly happened but I cant vote for jj today anyway.

[S~V~S]

Just want to say that, in general, it is considered bad form to comment on what is happening in a game still in progress in another game thread~ when a game is over, it's fair game. But not while it is still in progress. I think this is far from a "rule" but it is something that is frowned upon in my experience. Those who come from a forum where only one game at a time is happening may not be familiar with this.

[Tangrowth]

Haven't properly caught up, been busy getting ready for vacation and spending time with my parents now that they're back in town.

Voting boo, not that it matters anyway, really!

[Bullzeye]

Also voting Boo: SVS made some good points about him.

[Epignosis]

I apologize for not responding sooner. As many of you know, I was on the road. More Willie Nelson style, less Jack Kerouac style.

@ Epignosis, Hosty with the Mosty, a quick question (or two)~ if someone was to directly break rules, would you modkill them, or would you punish them in some other way for breaking rules?

The punishment would depend on the rule broken, how severely, and (if minor) if it was a repeat offense. Punishments (rare as they are) tend to be ad hoc.

If you did Modkill someone, would you directly say so, or if it was a different punishment, would it be a public punishment?

If I modkilled someone (which I have never done and do not intend to start), I would have explicitly said so. I have never used a public punishment regarding rule breakage (because it happens so rarely, at least for me as a host).

I have a philosophy regarding modkilling / punishments / related issues. If anyone is interested, I would be willing to discuss it in The Don's Hideout.

[Epignosis]

Who will be lynched?

Poll ended at Sat Dec 28, 2013 9:58 pm

A Person
0
No votes

birdwithteeth11
0
No votes

boo
8
S~V~S (2), johns2jj (4), Russtifinko (6), Lizzy (7), A Person (9), Sorsha (10), MovingPictures07 (11), Bullzeye (12)
67%

Bullzeye
0
No votes

FZ.
0
No votes

johns2jj
1
boo (3)
8%

Lizzy
1
Mongoose (5)
8%

Mongoose
1
FZ. (8)
8%

MovingPictures07
0
No votes

Russtifikno
0
No votes

Sorsha
0
No votes

S~V~S
0
No votes

Lincoln Burrows (The Host, the Mod, the Dead)
1
Epignosis (1)
8%


Total votes : 12

[Epignosis]

Good Books

So this fellow named boo was digging around in the exercise yard, like he'd lost something important. Found out later it was a stack of books. Ledgers.

"Has anyone seen my books?" boo yelled at the other inmates. "You know books? Books! Things you read? You're always pretending to read the Bible when your cells get checked, you hypocritical, illiterate sons of bitches!"

Then boo saw S~V~S, smiling at him, so boo said, "And what say you, fussy britches? Have you read any good books lately?"

S~V~S- that tilde of a smile never wavering, moved aside.

Standing behind was an inmate who had stolen a handgun from one of the guards.

boo has been lynched. He was Warden Samuel Norton.

[Epignosis]

Granddaddy

A little girl came by today. She was visiting her granddaddy as she said. Man was old as hell, judging from the looks of him. Bushy gray eyebrows and just strands over his scalp. His face went mad with pleasure when he saw her. He's in here for life though. Killed a Congressman because the guy was a Unitarian. Maybe you read about it in the papers.

I hear that little girl wanted to give her Granddaddy an original drawing, but the prison had no crayons or supplies to give her, and she hadn't brought one from home. You should have seen that old man's face. I don't care if he murdered a Unitarian politician, an old man ought not look that way.

If you can send me a piece of art that little girl would be proud of to give her Granddaddy, I'll pass it along. Little girl's name is Abigail.

It is now Night 6. You have 24 hours to send in your PMs.

[Mongoose]

And celebration was had by all.

[Bullzeye]

Great result Now I wonder, was anyone strongly against lynching Boo?

[birdwithteeth11]

Nice result! BIH Boo!

Maybe one of these days, I'll actually vote in a lynch.... :/

[Tangrowth]

Fantastic result! BIH boo!

I'm going to be on a plane in less than 24 hours, and I honestly might not be able to even be back in this thread at all thereafter. I made an agreement with Daisy that she has to turn her phone off and not worry about work if I don't worry about/talk about mafia, so. :P But if need be, I'll try to pop in to drive-by vote or do whatever I need to. Just know this ahead of time.

As to my thoughts, S~V~S might be bad, but I doubt she's on Shawshank.

I'll be voting for JJJJ next and Mongoose thereafter, I think. Those are my top two. I still really HATE to suspect JJJJ, but given his behavior, combined with Occam's Razor, and I do think he's a Sister. Sucks for him, but it is what it is, and I'd rather catch a baddie than let one go because we're afraid he's been outed.

As to the rest of you, I'm not sure.

[FZ.]

This is definitely good news!

Fantastic result! BIH boo!

I'm going to be on a plane in less than 24 hours, and I honestly might not be able to even be back in this thread at all thereafter. I made an agreement with Daisy that she has to turn her phone off and not worry about work if I don't worry about/talk about mafia, so. :P But if need be, I'll try to pop in to drive-by vote or do whatever I need to. Just know this ahead of time.

As to my thoughts, S~V~S might be bad, but I doubt she's on Shawshank.

I'll be voting for JJJJ next and Mongoose thereafter, I think. Those are my top two. I still really HATE to suspect JJJJ, but given his behavior, combined with Occam's Razor, and I do think he's a Sister. Sucks for him, but it is what it is, and I'd rather catch a baddie than let one go because we're afraid he's been outed.

As to the rest of you, I'm not sure.

I'm not sure I like this. You don't have a single thought that seems your own, no offense. Why Mongoose? I get jj and I voted for Mongoose, but I don't recall you saying anything about her. Unless I forgot.

[Tangrowth]

This is definitely good news!

Fantastic result! BIH boo!

I'm going to be on a plane in less than 24 hours, and I honestly might not be able to even be back in this thread at all thereafter. I made an agreement with Daisy that she has to turn her phone off and not worry about work if I don't worry about/talk about mafia, so. :P But if need be, I'll try to pop in to drive-by vote or do whatever I need to. Just know this ahead of time.

As to my thoughts, S~V~S might be bad, but I doubt she's on Shawshank.

I'll be voting for JJJJ next and Mongoose thereafter, I think. Those are my top two. I still really HATE to suspect JJJJ, but given his behavior, combined with Occam's Razor, and I do think he's a Sister. Sucks for him, but it is what it is, and I'd rather catch a baddie than let one go because we're afraid he's been outed.

As to the rest of you, I'm not sure.

I'm not sure I like this. You don't have a single thought that seems your own, no offense. Why Mongoose? I get jj and I voted for Mongoose, but I don't recall you saying anything about her. Unless I forgot.

You can not like it all you want, but it doesn't mean I'm bad. If you do look back at my posts, you will see that I think llama made some good points against Mongoose, and I don't like the way she brought up Lizzy yesterday.

So that's why Mongoose. Partially also because I don't know what's going on with the rest of you. While I chose not to post in this thread, I was busy consuming myself in WWE, and as a result I just don't feel that strongly about anyone else one way or the other. Though occam's razor also suggests BWT is most likely to be good, but of course, that's dependent on that assumption, so take that as you will.

[FZ.]

This is definitely good news!

Fantastic result! BIH boo!

I'm going to be on a plane in less than 24 hours, and I honestly might not be able to even be back in this thread at all thereafter. I made an agreement with Daisy that she has to turn her phone off and not worry about work if I don't worry about/talk about mafia, so. :P But if need be, I'll try to pop in to drive-by vote or do whatever I need to. Just know this ahead of time.

As to my thoughts, S~V~S might be bad, but I doubt she's on Shawshank.

I'll be voting for JJJJ next and Mongoose thereafter, I think. Those are my top two. I still really HATE to suspect JJJJ, but given his behavior, combined with Occam's Razor, and I do think he's a Sister. Sucks for him, but it is what it is, and I'd rather catch a baddie than let one go because we're afraid he's been outed.

As to the rest of you, I'm not sure.

I'm not sure I like this. You don't have a single thought that seems your own, no offense. Why Mongoose? I get jj and I voted for Mongoose, but I don't recall you saying anything about her. Unless I forgot.

You can not like it all you want, but it doesn't mean I'm bad. If you do look back at my posts, you will see that I think llama made some good points against Mongoose, and I don't like the way she brought up Lizzy yesterday.

So that's why Mongoose. Partially also because I don't know what's going on with the rest of you. While I chose not to post in this thread, I was busy consuming myself in WWE, and as a result I just don't feel that strongly about anyone else one way or the other. Though occam's razor also suggests BWT is most likely to be good, but of course, that's dependent on that assumption, so take that as you will.

'
OK, I'll take it into consideration

Do you people think SVS could be jj's sister if Ello is right about jj? Also, did Ello ever do such a thing before? Am I wrong or did jj never say Ello was wrong?

[Tangrowth]

OK, I'll take it into consideration

Do you people think SVS could be jj's sister if Ello is right about jj? Also, did Ello ever do such a thing before? Am I wrong or did jj never say Ello was wrong?

I do, yes. And... good question, not sure if she's ever done anything like this before.

And I do not think he did, FWIW.

[S~V~S]

boo may have been bad, but he is very astute, and is one of the canniest players I know. I find it immensely unlikely that he was pushing John as hard as he was if he believed John to be civ. He spent most of the game looking for sisters, and he felt pretty damn sure about John to my eye, Between the role blocker and the seizing of contraband, the Staff could have gotten some info. And they could read as well as the next person. Which reminds me, FZ. My book gave me a very vague statement that could have been understood several ways. I did not have info to dump.

This fact about boo, and the fact that as soon as I came in pushing boo, John kinda disappeared, not having been seen since voting for boo makes me think about him a bit.

Also, FZ, you did not grasp why I voted for Mongoose for being, to my mind, associated with Llama. Yet you are totally willing to do the same thing yourself, tarring me with the sister brush without even finding out for sure if John is a sister. Interesting.

Odds are good that I am gonna vote for John today.

Linki, lol, I bet you do

[FZ.]

boo may have been bad, but he is very astute, and is one of the canniest players I know. I find it immensely unlikely that he was pushing John as hard as he was if he believed John to be civ. He spent most of the game looking for sisters, and he felt pretty damn sure about John to my eye, Between the role blocker and the seizing of contraband, the Staff could have gotten some info. And they could read as well as the next person. Which reminds me, FZ. My book gave me a very vague statement that could have been understood several ways. I did not have info to dump.

This fact about boo, and the fact that as soon as I came in pushing boo, John kinda disappeared, not having been seen since voting for boo makes me think about him a bit.

Also, FZ, you did not grasp why I voted for Mongoose for being, to my mind, associated with Llama. Yet you are totally willing to do the same thing yourself, tarring me with the sister brush without even finding out for sure if John is a sister. Interesting.

Odds are good that I am gonna vote for John today.
Linki, lol, I bet you do

Okay, thanks for letting me know about your book. I thought everyone got basically the same kind of pretty-much- useless information.
I agree that Boo going after jj like that probably meant that he believed it was true and wanted to come out looking better. I guess that might be why he didn't vote for you, because he couldn't risk it and he wasn't sure as he was about jj.
And I'm sorry, I don't remember what you're referring to concerning Mongoose and llama. Could you please remind me? (sorry)

You're right, I'm not sure about jj, but I think there's a good chance he's scum when we have Ello saying that and Boo looking for the only baddies he could lynch in order to look good, without hurting his own team. So it makes me think it's highly likely. As for who is working with him, that's what I'm trying to find out, and I assume that is the more important baddie.

SVS, what do you think about Mongoose?

[Mongoose]

Checking in. Reconsidering JJ and the usual suspects.

[FZ.]

Also, I went to see who didn't vote for Boo other than me and Mongoose who couldn't vote, and found that all those who voted, voted for him. Interesting, isn't it.

These are the people that did vote for him:
S~V~S (2), johns2jj (4), Russtifinko (6), Lizzy (7), A Person (9), Sorsha (10), MovingPictures07 (11), Bullzeye (12)

I would imagine that if there are two baddies with him, at least one, if not two are on this list. One is probably from the last four. I wonder if there is one that already saw him going down and decided to vote early. I did it plenty of times. I doubt it though, because it was between him and jj, so I'd say they would wait and see. Still, since we could change votes, I can also see them voting early thinking if they had the chance, they'd change. All said, I still think there's a higher chance his teammates are from later on. Also, one possibly being a no voter, if we even had one. The other could be Mongoose.

As for the sisters, they would probably be voting for Boo in an instant, putting their trust in SVS, hence jj's vote, and I imagine the other is one of them as well, or again, Mongoose.

[FZ.]

Checking in. Reconsidering JJ and the usual suspects.

I think if we know jj is supposed to be a sister, maybe we should lynch someone else and use a power on jj at night, if anyone has something they can use (I can't remember). jj being a new player, I'd assume he would be more likely to avoid his team mates rather than engage in a conversation or go after them. If anyone wants to investigate, that could be a good place to start.

I need to leave.
By they way, how does it work here, do the shawshank staff get to kill after we lynched the person in charge of the killing? Do we get one night off, or maybe nothing.

[S~V~S]

I'm literally falling asleep on my laptop, so I'm just going to vote. I was hoping for more votes before I decide, but it looks as though it isn't happening. Don't know what's going on with llama, but I guess I can understand your vote change.
As for Mongoose, I don't get why she voted for Vomp of all people.
SVS, I didn't like her line saying she would vote either llama for his suspicions on Mongoose, Mongoose herself just to call out on llama's bluff, or she'll vote someone else completely. If she's so suspicious of him, why not vote him and prove he's a baddie. So I'm torn.

Since it doesn't look like either will be leaving us, it means I need to choose between llama and Vomp. I'll take Vomp down any day because of what I said in the other game, but I think we'll all be voting for him for really bad reasons.

The bolded part, you mentioned this a few times. You said you suspected me for voting Mongoose due to her association with Llama. At that time I thought they were teammates, as i know Llama likes throwing teammates HARD under the bus. I was trying to get him to abandon his (what I believed to be, at least) pretense of suspecting her. Yet you seem to be doing something similar with me & John. Initially i did not understand the suspish of John, but rereading boo as extensively as i did yesterday, I saw some stuff i had missed initially.

Speaking of rereading, i saw your comment just now looking for the post above^^ about being 98% sure either Mongoose or i was bad. I had forgotten that. It isn't me.

I have problems reading Mongoose; her light style, while charming, always sets my bells off, and I almost ALWAYS think she is bad. At the beginning of this game, the combo of that and Llamas goofy "case" against her ( "I am voting for you Badgoose!", etc.) had me convinced they were bad teammates. But him turning up Indy threw my read and radar totally off. When that happens i go quiet, which I did until i read boos "shitty case" remark. That woke me up

So to answer your question, I would not be surprised if she were bad, but I have no specific reason to think so.

Linki~ don't the sisters have the even kill? Thats why I have been kinda avoiding posting, tbh, lol.

[Mongoose]

The bolded part, you mentioned this a few times. You said you suspected me for voting Mongoose due to her association with Llama. At that time I thought they were teammates, as i know Llama likes throwing teammates HARD under the bus. I was trying to get him to abandon his (what I believed to be, at least) pretense of suspecting her. Yet you seem to be doing something similar with me & John. Initially i did not understand the suspish of John, but rereading boo as extensively as i did yesterday, I saw some stuff i had missed initially.

Speaking of rereading, i saw your comment just now looking for the post above^^ about being 98% sure either Mongoose or i was bad. I had forgotten that. It isn't me.

I have problems reading Mongoose; her light style, while charming, always sets my bells off, and I almost ALWAYS think she is bad. At the beginning of this game, the combo of that and Llamas goofy "case" against her ( "I am voting for you Badgoose!", etc.) had me convinced they were bad teammates. But him turning up Indy threw my read and radar totally off. When that happens i go quiet, which I did until i read boos "shitty case" remark. That woke me up

So to answer your question, I would not be surprised if she were bad, but I have no specific reason to think so.

Linki~ don't the sisters have the even kill? Thats why I have been kinda avoiding posting, tbh, lol.

Note: I wrote the below before I realized that FZ/SVs was talking about suspicion of me being Llama's teammate before he was killed and thus role outed. I made the decision to post the following anyway, so you can maybe gleam some deliciousness from my current thoughts.

But we know Llama was the DA. How could he have had teammates? I read that totally as an independent.

It's true that Llama and I have been teammates before -- actually S~V~S hosted us on American Gods where he recruited me ab initio, but our interplay in the thread was much more finessed. We hardly directed comments to one another at all in-thread, which was probably in of itself suspicious. That said, I know that S.E. Hinton said "That was then, this is now" (lit joke!) but I do cite it as a typical animal sanctuary alliance baddie team repartee. 'Cause, well, ya know, I have to defend myself and whatnot.

I myself have a lot of questions about the role mechanic of the DA. One thing I can gleam from it is it seems to be a very self-serving role.

[S~V~S]

Yup, 100% percent i thought llama was doing his distancing schtick~ he does it a lot.

[FZ.]

I'm literally falling asleep on my laptop, so I'm just going to vote. I was hoping for more votes before I decide, but it looks as though it isn't happening. Don't know what's going on with llama, but I guess I can understand your vote change.
As for Mongoose, I don't get why she voted for Vomp of all people.
SVS, I didn't like her line saying she would vote either llama for his suspicions on Mongoose, Mongoose herself just to call out on llama's bluff, or she'll vote someone else completely. If she's so suspicious of him, why not vote him and prove he's a baddie. So I'm torn.

Since it doesn't look like either will be leaving us, it means I need to choose between llama and Vomp. I'll take Vomp down any day because of what I said in the other game, but I think we'll all be voting for him for really bad reasons.

The bolded part, you mentioned this a few times. You said you suspected me for voting Mongoose due to her association with Llama. At that time I thought they were teammates, as i know Llama likes throwing teammates HARD under the bus. I was trying to get him to abandon his (what I believed to be, at least) pretense of suspecting her. Yet you seem to be doing something similar with me & John. Initially i did not understand the suspish of John, but rereading boo as extensively as i did yesterday, I saw some stuff i had missed initially.

Speaking of rereading, i saw your comment just now looking for the post above^^ about being 98% sure either Mongoose or i was bad. I had forgotten that. It isn't me.

I have problems reading Mongoose; her light style, while charming, always sets my bells off, and I almost ALWAYS think she is bad. At the beginning of this game, the combo of that and Llamas goofy "case" against her ( "I am voting for you Badgoose!", etc.) had me convinced they were bad teammates. But him turning up Indy threw my read and radar totally off. When that happens i go quiet, which I did until i read boos "shitty case" remark. That woke me up

So to answer your question, I would not be surprised if she were bad, but I have no specific reason to think so.

Linki~ don't the sisters have the even kill? Thats why I have been kinda avoiding posting, tbh, lol.

Thanks. First of all, keep in mind that the thing about being 98% either you or Mongoose were bad, was because I was working under the assumption Hadely would be voting to get Fat Ass out of the way, and you were the only two with 3 different votes (or 4). Since then, I realized that it is possible Hadely would do exactly the opposite to avoid getting caught. So my suspicions have gone way down. As for the quote, I still don't get what it is I'm supposedly doing, but it's OK, think whatever you want. I think my suspicion was legitimate. You don't vote for someone you think is a civ just to prove the other person is lying. You think he's lying, vote for him. If you didn't think she was a civ, how would voting her call his bluff? Thanks for reminding me of other reasons I was suspicious of you

I don't know about Mongoose. The fact that she couldn't vote for Boo yesterday is making it hard to accuse her of finding someone new to vote for. Still, I think there were less easy targets than Lizzie and her choice didn't sit well with me.

[FZ.]

What do you think about Bullzeye, A person, MP and Sorsha? Out of those four, who seems most suspicious to you?

[S~V~S]

MP

[S~V~S]

Also if i get killed, keep this conversation in mind, lol. Drawing people out at night and all that~

[FZ.]

Okay, shutting up.
Just wanted to say, that I see Russ reading the thread for sometime, yet no saying anything...

OK, now really off to sleep

[Russtifinko]

I need to go to sleep.
I don't get people saying they won't vote for jj because of Elo using that kind of evidence. It's not like we'll be able to forget it. It's in our minds. But since I can't stay and discuss it, I'm willing to talk about him and it next day (if I'm alive).

Wanted to address this. I didn't say or mean that I would not be voting JJJS because Elo used that evidence, just that I would not vote JJJSJJJS based ONLY on that evidence. Whether he's bad or not, no one has at any point built any type of compelling, thread-based case on him at all. When that happens, I'll certainly be willing to vote him, but until then no way. It's unfair to him because it's indefensible, and it's a shitty way to end your first game. It also undermines the integrity of the game, in my opinion. So until someone builds a coherent, thread-based case, I won't vote JJ, and I hope other respect the game enough not to either.

Also, I went to see who didn't vote for Boo other than me and Mongoose who couldn't vote, and found that all those who voted, voted for him. Interesting, isn't it.

These are the people that did vote for him:
S~V~S (2), johns2jj (4), Russtifinko (6), Lizzy (7), A Person (9), Sorsha (10), MovingPictures07 (11), Bullzeye (12)

I would imagine that if there are two baddies with him, at least one, if not two are on this list. One is probably from the last four. I wonder if there is one that already saw him going down and decided to vote early. I did it plenty of times. I doubt it though, because it was between him and jj, so I'd say they would wait and see. Still, since we could change votes, I can also see them voting early thinking if they had the chance, they'd change. All said, I still think there's a higher chance his teammates are from later on. Also, one possibly being a no voter, if we even had one. The other could be Mongoose.

As for the sisters, they would probably be voting for Boo in an instant, putting their trust in SVS, hence jj's vote, and I imagine the other is one of them as well, or again, Mongoose.

FZ I don't know what we're supposed to make of this analysis. Everyone who voted boo is likely to be bad, because they all have some strategic reason for voting him at the time they did? And Mongoose is bad too. So that leaves everyone but you being bad, except possibly non-voters, who could still be bad.

I don't mean for that last paragraph to sound insulting. I'm just trying to ask what we can make of your anaylsis. It has a lot of words, but I haven't been able to discern any meaning from it that helps me think about the game. Who are your top suspects right now? JJJJJS and Mongoose, I think. Anyone else?

I should also admit at this point that I don't totally get the case against the 'Goose. I know FZ and S~V~S have discussed it a lot, but it seems very circumstantial and, to me at least, still based on lingering doubts from worries about llama that turned out to be false (or at least half-wrong, anyway).

By they way, how does it work here, do the shawshank staff get to kill after we lynched the person in charge of the killing? Do we get one night off, or maybe nothing.

FZ, usually at TS, if an individual has the kill power, their team loses the kill if they die. We should ask Epi though, as it's really up to him. But for now it's a non-issue, right? I mean, the Warden doesn't control the kill according to the role list.

For tomorrow, I'd like to take a look in some new places, personally. MP and Bullz, you guys have both been uncharacteristically distant. I know in MP's case that's likely to be even more the case from now on, which is a shame. But even the past few days you've been in Wall of Text mode, as someone called it, in the other game. You didn't even show up here until someone posted that, and then you made a few posts and haven't been up to your usual involved self, in my opinion. And Bullz, you also said you've been focusing more on the other game and haven't given this one attention. It's late enough now that we need all hands on deck, and I'd love to hear from both of you. I'll probably even consider voting one of you.

And Sorsha, I know you just replaced in recently, but what are your thoughts on the things going on? What do you think of S~V~S, or Mongoose, for example?

PS-Very sorry for the mega=post, again. I've been getting one time a day to mafia, so I have to post ALL my thoughts right then. I know it's a bit much, thanks if you read this.

Linki-hahaha now you know why, FZ.

[S~V~S]

The kill passes down as far as I know. And I was talking about the past with FZ, and thought i was fairly clear about that.

[Epignosis]

Hide and Seek

I hear The Sisters took a liking to birdwithteeth11. Had some grudge against him, maybe. I don't know if he hid, or if he'd done a favor for a guard, or if he actually escaped.

Couldn't have been that last thing. We'd have heard about it, right?

Whatever the case, The Sisters couldn't find him. And so they couldn't do him any harm.

No one has been killed. It is now Day 7. You have 24 hours to lynch someone.

[Epignosis]

Abigail liked this picture the best:

[S~V~S]

Someone tried to murder BWT on his birthday~ what a shocker

[Tangrowth]

Russ, I'm not sure what I could tell you other than what I've already said regarding my behavior this game.

Interesting, no death.

Lol, it is the birthday curse, isn't it??? Birthday FAIL in this case.

[Mister Rearranger]

dat bird in the picture.

so adorable

[Tangrowth]

So I REALLY hate to do it, but I'm voting JJ. If you do get lynched, JJ, know that you played an outstanding first game and that it's unfair you had to go, but I greatly look forward to my next game with you.

And I hate even more to say it, but this will very likely be my last vote and post in this game. I don't know. I'm certainly conflicted, as I have been enjoying this and I obviously want to contribute to a civvie victory, but my time will be absolutely booked pretty much the entire time I am gone, and it's probably better for my sanity that I don't bother myself with a mafia game while on a vacation where I told myself I'm not allowed to worry about PhD, work, or anything else, and that includes mafia (especially since I can get really into the games, as many of you know).

So if I disappear completely, don't be shocked. In fact, if I appear again, you should be shocked. If this gets me lynched, so be it. I knew this going into the game, and honestly almost didn't sign up for that reason (same with WWE, and I was considering putting it minimal effort while gone, but now that I'm dead there it makes me realize I should just keep that promise to myself), but thought maybe I'd be die by then or could somehow remedy the matter.

Thus, I'll ask Epig to find a replacement for me, but I don't even know how feasible that is at this late in the game. Apologies to the inconvenience to everyone. It was fun while it lasted, for sure!

If SOMEHOW the game is still going when I return and I'm still alive, then I'll be glad to help.

[S~V~S]

So do we talk about the people who did not want to lynch boo, or about the person boo wanted to lynch?

I could go either way. There were most def some sisters in the boo voters, especially I would guess in the bunch of people who just voted and did not post. For reasons stated, i think boo had some good points about John, and I am sure he thought John was actually a sister. Boo was all about sister catching.

Also why kill (or try to kill) bwt (except for the birthday funny thing)? And who seemed most resistant to a boo lynch?

[Sorsha]

I need to go to sleep.
I don't get people saying they won't vote for jj because of Elo using that kind of evidence. It's not like we'll be able to forget it. It's in our minds.

This pretty much sums up how I feel about the jj situation.

Lynching a baddie almost always turns up useful information- it's unfortunate how this happened but- it is what it is.

[johns2jj]

Like I said earlier I was traveling but now I am getting used to being in saudi that is why I have not been messaging. I am probably not going to be very active the next few days so it might be easier for everyone to lynch me.

[FZ.]

I need to go to sleep.
I don't get people saying they won't vote for jj because of Elo using that kind of evidence. It's not like we'll be able to forget it. It's in our minds. But since I can't stay and discuss it, I'm willing to talk about him and it next day (if I'm alive).

Wanted to address this. I didn't say or mean that I would not be voting JJJS because Elo used that evidence, just that I would not vote JJJSJJJS based ONLY on that evidence. Whether he's bad or not, no one has at any point built any type of compelling, thread-based case on him at all. When that happens, I'll certainly be willing to vote him, but until then no way. It's unfair to him because it's indefensible, and it's a shitty way to end your first game. It also undermines the integrity of the game, in my opinion. So until someone builds a coherent, thread-based case, I won't vote JJ, and I hope other respect the game enough not to either.

I don't know how to separate the quotes, so I'm just going to write in purple. I get it, but I also think that now, going to build a case on jj would be firstly based on the assumption that he is a baddie. The idea that he's a baddie is forever ingrained in our minds and anything said and done about him from now on will be colored accordingly.

Also, I went to see who didn't vote for Boo other than me and Mongoose who couldn't vote, and found that all those who voted, voted for him. Interesting, isn't it.

These are the people that did vote for him:
S~V~S (2), johns2jj (4), Russtifinko (6), Lizzy (7), A Person (9), Sorsha (10), MovingPictures07 (11), Bullzeye (12)

I would imagine that if there are two baddies with him, at least one, if not two are on this list. One is probably from the last four. I wonder if there is one that already saw him going down and decided to vote early. I did it plenty of times. I doubt it though, because it was between him and jj, so I'd say they would wait and see. Still, since we could change votes, I can also see them voting early thinking if they had the chance, they'd change. All said, I still think there's a higher chance his teammates are from later on. Also, one possibly being a no voter, if we even had one. The other could be Mongoose.

As for the sisters, they would probably be voting for Boo in an instant, putting their trust in SVS, hence jj's vote, and I imagine the other is one of them as well, or again, Mongoose.

FZ I don't know what we're supposed to make of this analysis. Everyone who voted boo is likely to be bad, because they all have some strategic reason for voting him at the time they did? And Mongoose is bad too. So that leaves everyone but you being bad, except possibly non-voters, who could still be bad.

I don't mean for that last paragraph to sound insulting. I'm just trying to ask what we can make of your anaylsis. It has a lot of words, but I haven't been able to discern any meaning from it that helps me think about the game. Who are your top suspects right now? JJJJJS and Mongoose, I think. Anyone else?

I should also admit at this point that I don't totally get the case against the 'Goose. I know FZ and S~V~S have discussed it a lot, but it seems very circumstantial and, to me at least, still based on lingering doubts from worries about llama that turned out to be false (or at least half-wrong, anyway).

First of all, every one but me is still suspicious to me But seriously, I'm not saying everyone is suspicious. I specifically said one of the last 4 voting for Boo, because I imagine them trying to wait to see if it could go to someone else. I could also extend it to a few of the other players if any of you could tell me how they go about when they are baddies. For example, I can tell you that if I think someone with the power to check roles is on to my buddy, I'd be the second to vote for him/her to save myself realizing they are going down. But again, this is about styles and I don't know any of yours, so I was asking for your help.

As for Mongoose, there are times when she comes off civ and others when she seems fishy. I'm used to playing a one team mafia and I'm not as good when there are two teams of baddies because everyone looks like they are trying to find scum. Her vote fir Lizzie just seemed to come out of the blue, but maybe I'm reading it wrong.

For tomorrow, I'd like to take a look in some new places, personally. MP and Bullz, you guys have both been uncharacteristically distant. I know in MP's case that's likely to be even more the case from now on, which is a shame. But even the past few days you've been in Wall of Text mode, as someone called it, in the other game. You didn't even show up here until someone posted that, and then you made a few posts and haven't been up to your usual involved self, in my opinion. And Bullz, you also said you've been focusing more on the other game and haven't given this one attention. It's late enough now that we need all hands on deck, and I'd love to hear from both of you. I'll probably even consider voting one of you.

And Sorsha, I know you just replaced in recently, but what are your thoughts on the things going on? What do you think of S~V~S, or Mongoose, for example?

PS-Very sorry for the mega=post, again. I've been getting one time a day to mafia, so I have to post ALL my thoughts right then. I know it's a bit much, thanks if you read this.

Linki-hahaha now you know why, FZ.

I agree on Bullzeye and MP. I don't know with MP, because maybe he was silenced, and I think voting for him now would be pointless until we know if he's being replaced or not, so I would definitely put him on hold. Not to mention that if he posts a lot it doesn't mean he's a civ so the opposite holds as well. But with Bullzeye, I want more from him. He answered me that he's busy, which means he read the thread, yet he didn't really have much to say. So Bullz.