Steely Dan Mafia [ENDGAME]

[JaggedJimmyJay]

For what fucking purpose does wolfJack ask Speedchuck to make him look even worse after getting red peeked?

For what purpose does Long Con lie about being 100% certain you're bad?

[Jackofhearts2005]

@Elohcin is your role something that can be for both alignments? don't claim, just a y/n is enough please.

yes.

See?

[speedchuck]

If Jack lives through the night, we monitor this crap. Display EVERYTHING openly. And still consider lynching him before the swap happens.

I'm not a bad target, rolewise, because I'm extremely verifiable and not something that would help scum. But I'm not trusted, so if anyone has suggestions for hypothetical D3jack, let them rip!

[Jackofhearts2005]

For what fucking purpose does wolfJack ask Speedchuck to make him look even worse after getting red peeked?

For what purpose does Long Con lie about being 100% certain you're bad?

"Oh golly. I guess I was redirected. Sorry, Jack."

[dunya]

The worst is a mafia member using a safeclaim, getting lynched, then a second mafia member using the same safeclaim after being red peeked.

what?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Anyway, it's the night phase. We're not lynching anyone tonight. If there's a vigilante out there they'll do what they do or they won't.

[mention]Jackofhearts2005[/mention], who's bad?

[speedchuck]

I'll note as well that if Jack stole my role, he could verify that without outting anyone but me.

I'm okay with that. Again, assuming Jack lives that long.

I'm also not a bad target to get vestsploded if we go all the way testing this.

[Jackofhearts2005]

The worst is a mafia member using a safeclaim, getting lynched, then a second mafia member using the same safeclaim after being red peeked.

what?

This happened once. Second easiest townwin.

Easiest was when no joke when a PGO took out 4 mafia members and the rest got lynched. After rezzes, no town losses against like 7 scum roles.

[dunya]

i don't know when to take jack seriously lol.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Anyway, it's the night phase. We're not lynching anyone tonight. If there's a vigilante out there they'll do what they do or they won't.

Jackofhearts2005, who's bad?

Kinda putting me on the spot, Jay. If I get vigged, it won't matter and if I don't, I'll do more work. Cross my heart.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Kinda putting me on the spot, Jay. If I get vigged, it won't matter and if I don't, I'll do more work. Cross my heart.

What? Of course it will matter if you get vigged (if you're a civilian). You say goofy shit.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Kinda putting me on the spot, Jay. If I get vigged, it won't matter and if I don't, I'll do more work. Cross my heart.

What? Of course it will matter if you get vigged (if you're a civilian). You say goofy shit.

Nobody listens to dead townies, as you well know.

[dunya]

Kinda putting me on the spot, Jay. If I get vigged, it won't matter and if I don't, I'll do more work. Cross my heart.

What? Of course it will matter if you get vigged (if you're a civilian). You say goofy shit.

Nobody listens to dead townies, as you well know.

don't be unhelpful. i will listen to you as long as you don't say juliets and daisy must die.

[Jackofhearts2005]

I'll note as well that if Jack stole my role, he could verify that without outting anyone but me.

I'm okay with that. Again, assuming Jack lives that long.

I'm also not a bad target to get vestsploded if we go all the way testing this.

What if Speedchuck is bad and he's just trying to get a vest so he doesn't get vigkilled?

What if DDL is in another timezone and he takes forever to come online?

I'm going to pick someone better.

Link: Daisy is town. I'm not really paying attention to Juliets but I'll try to read her better today.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Nobody listens to dead townies, as you well know.

I do.

[Jackofhearts2005]

If Jack lives through the night, we monitor this crap. Display EVERYTHING openly. And still consider lynching him before the swap happens.

I'm not a bad target, rolewise, because I'm extremely verifiable and not something that would help scum. But I'm not trusted, so if anyone has suggestions for hypothetical D3jack, let them rip!

Nevermind.

Speedchuck it is.

[dunya]

If Jack lives through the night, we monitor this crap. Display EVERYTHING openly. And still consider lynching him before the swap happens.

I'm not a bad target, rolewise, because I'm extremely verifiable and not something that would help scum. But I'm not trusted, so if anyone has suggestions for hypothetical D3jack, let them rip!

Nevermind.

Speedchuck it is.

so speedchuck will verify it day 2 and not night 3. correct? it's a "day action"

[Elohcin]

The only middle ground I can conceive of would be @Long Con tracking Jack into nutella, which fits both worlds. Even then though we have to contend with the fact that Jack literally told us he gave shit to speedchuck and then was like oops just kidding

Not possible. Jack allegedly visited Nutella during the day, he should have been seen visiting Eloh if he's truthful and got tracked.

I am not gonna lie. I am very confused by everything that has been said in the past few hours.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Nobody listens to dead townies, as you well know.

I do.

Your individual quotes on Mac interactions were really good. They don't necessarily match your conclusion and spot in the rainbow list.

That and scrapping the Juliets/Daisy idea and thinking LC is bad are my main thoughts atm. Speed probably still good cause of his role so get out of that tunnel.

[dunya]

i mean, this is all very neat and tidy if you and speed are w/w but i dunno if this is a gambit mafia speed agrees to.

[speedchuck]

If Jack lives through the night, we monitor this crap. Display EVERYTHING openly. And still consider lynching him before the swap happens.

I'm not a bad target, rolewise, because I'm extremely verifiable and not something that would help scum. But I'm not trusted, so if anyone has suggestions for hypothetical D3jack, let them rip!

Nevermind.

Speedchuck it is.

so speedchuck will verify it day 2 and not night 3. correct? it's a "day action"

I can verify if I was targeted during the day. Then after Jack uses the borrowed night role on someone, they will also be able to verify that he used it the next morning.

Assuming my verification gets Jack through the Day 3 lynch, but any nightrole verification assumes that.

[speedchuck]

linki: I can verify during the day, someone else will be able to verify after the role resolves.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

This hour of Mafia gave me gas. I farted.

[Jackofhearts2005]

If Jack lives through the night, we monitor this crap. Display EVERYTHING openly. And still consider lynching him before the swap happens.

I'm not a bad target, rolewise, because I'm extremely verifiable and not something that would help scum. But I'm not trusted, so if anyone has suggestions for hypothetical D3jack, let them rip!

Nevermind.

Speedchuck it is.

so speedchuck will verify it day 2 and not night 3. correct? it's a "day action"

Yeah.

Linki: It's not! I've been mafia with Speed twice and we barely even talked. Idk why.

[speedchuck]

This hour of Mafia gave me gas. I farted.

From now on, I'm associating your green skittle avatar with a fart bubble.

[dunya]

i don't really like playing a game of open claim mafia, but okay.

[speedchuck]

Linki: It's not! I've been mafia with Speed twice and we barely even talked. Idk why.

Because I can't access Chatzy during the day. And I sleep at night.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Linki: It's not! I've been mafia with Speed twice and we barely even talked. Idk why.

Because I can't access Chatzy during the day. And I sleep at night.

Oh. I thought you were just trying to do that alternate universe telepathy thing and I was bad at it.

[novaselinenever]

The only middle ground I can conceive of would be @Long Con tracking Jack into nutella, which fits both worlds. Even then though we have to contend with the fact that Jack literally told us he gave shit to speedchuck and then was like oops just kidding

Not possible. Jack allegedly visited Nutella during the day, he should have been seen visiting Eloh if he's truthful and got tracked.

I am not gonna lie. I am very confused by everything that has been said in the past few hours.

I'm here to help.

- LC claims that Jack is bad 100%.
- Jack claims a role that allows him to trade a vest to a player and in exchange gain their power for the night (example - Nutella is a role-cop, he gives her a vest during the day and the following night, he can role cop a player).
- He claimed at first that he targeted Speedchuck D1, but later said he actually targeted Nutella D1 then used her power on you N1.
- Jay suggested that LC might be a tracker that saw Jack visit Nutella N1, hence believing he's bad. The post you quoted tells that it's not possible 'cause Jack allegedly targeted you N1 (The trade, Jack visiting Nutella, happens during the day).

[novaselinenever]

A vigilante should put us out of our misery, and let the game resume.

[Jackofhearts2005]

[mention]JaggedJimmyJay[/mention]
Nova's bad, too.

[juliets]

Holy moly, I leave for an hour and a half and all hell breaks loose. I'm not sure I'm grasping all of it yet.

Someone, anyone, help me understand why nutella died if she had a vest?

[Jackofhearts2005]

MacDougall and Dragon D. Luffy

Spoiler: show

Yet here you are with zero reads. What have you accomplished?

What is this, a job interview?

I don't have to accomplish shit.

This feels fake and reinforces DDL/Jay not w/w.

I felt quite the opposite to this Jack. It's a perfectly natural reaction from DDL to Jay spew.

Mac stood in DDL's defense when Jack said he felt fake. It's certainly white-knighting. The meaning of that will be easier to judge as I observe the trend that I know will develop.

Spoiler: show

I feel some of the people townreading me are bad. At least one of them

Feels like one of those games where I manage to post in a very obvious civ way which convinces people, but baddies already noticed that and are blending in.

I might get NKd soon.

I feel like I've been able to civ read you better lately. Things that I used to incorrectly read you as Mafia for I now see as civ traits. Tbh it was mostly my cynicism because I used to read you bad for having strong insights that I chalked up to TMI but I've come to realise that we sort of see the game similarly. The way that I have been handling our interactions in games lately is a lot of the reason I feel my civilian game has improved. That and taking a back seat more. I realised that even though I have strong insight into scum, that brute forcing my opinions into the thread was counterintuitive to civilian wins and started playing more cerebrally. Less plaudits but stronger results. Only took me 8 years.

DDL suggested there might be a mafioso among the people reading him as a civilian. He did not specifically name Mac, but Mac nonetheless felt the need to respond. This is severe over-justification, and I think it's nice for DDL that it wasn't a two-way interaction. If he wanted to distance from Mac I'd expect him to name Mac.

Spoiler: show

Yet here you are with zero reads. What have you accomplished?

What is this, a job interview?

I don't have to accomplish shit.

This feels fake and reinforces DDL/Jay not w/w.

Looping back around on this one I questioned before, I got the distinctly opposite impression from reading that DDL post. It's exactly how I would have felt. Don't like that we're not on the same page in this game Jack. My face has scrunched up in confusion from several of your posts.

This is an extension of the first point. Mac used his civilian read on DDL as a conduit to shit on Jack, which is certainly compatible with TMI.

Dark green in Mac's rainbow -- unsurprising

Spoiler: show

I am trying to make heads or tails of this mac juliets weirdness and nope.

Nutella hiding behind a posting gimmick and throwing TMI all over the place then giving weak player salad suspicions without sincerity and preempting suspicion = die.

I don't wanna parrot people but this is the third time someone attacks nutella and I agree with it.

Let's [VOTE: nutella] aubergine before Mac also joins the ranks of the "maybe nutella is a civ" crew too and I lose my point of support.

DDL supported Mac against nutella. He did say that Mac's attack was the third he agreed with, lending some plausibility to the notion that Mac is only an incidental part of this. DDL didn't mention the other people though.

Spoiler: show

Pretty sure it was you who actually told me to start doing that quite a while ago too.

Not sure if I told it to you directly, but it is reqlly something I did myself. I used to tunnel vision a lot more.

Oh yeah it's in my sig hahaha.

Oh that.

Okay whatever

Spoiler: show

You mean that nagging feeling Mac is pocketing me? I have it too.

It would be a creative approach for mafia teammates to take here -- one of them strongly supports the other, while the reverse is distancing by way of "pocketing". I don't get that impression. DDL was on to Mac's shit.

DDL's vote ended the day on nutella.

~~~

Conclusion: I don't think DDL is a likely teammate of Mac.

Where’s the part of this that explains why DDL and Mac aren’t teamed?

This reads like a light green to yellow analysis.

not one mention in the last 2 pages of jack's iso lead to DDL except this prod to jay. ddl is supposed to be jack's biggest suspect.

ddl bad.

Your theory here is that the wolfpack is Mac/Jack/Jay/DDL and that Jay, Mac and I just can't stop talking about DDL?

Are you for real?

[dunya]

ok maybe not jay. but yeah, i could see DDL mafia with you and mac 100%

[dunya]

Holy moly, I leave for an hour and a half and all hell breaks loose. I'm not sure I'm grasping all of it yet.

Someone, anyone, help me understand why nutella died if she had a vest?

strongman is the theory.

[juliets]

@JaggedJimmyJay
Nova's bad, too.

Also, Jack what do you see about nova? I have been antsy about him not looking the same as the nova I saw in the last 3 games I played with him where he was civ, but he has a plausible excuse (school).

Thanks [mention]dunya[/mention], that is a mafia who can break through protection right?

[speedchuck]

@JaggedJimmyJay
Nova's bad, too.

Also, Jack what do you see about nova? I have been antsy about him not looking the same as the nova I saw in the last 3 games I played with him where he was civ, but he has a plausible excuse (school).

Nova said Jack should be vigged, therefore bad.

I think that's the thought process anyway.

[Jackofhearts2005]

@JaggedJimmyJay
Nova's bad, too.

Also, Jack what do you see about nova? I have been antsy about him not looking the same as the nova I saw in the last 3 games I played with him where he was civ, but he has a plausible excuse (school).

Nova said Jack should be vigged, therefore bad.

I think that's the thought process anyway.

Yeah, basically that.

[juliets]

ok so Jay asked me to start doing interactive analysis on jack/kites and jack/nova. Asking the group, is that still worth me doing?

Oh I see [mention]speedchuck[/mention], thanks.

[dunya]

Thanks dunya, that is a mafia who can break through protection right?

yeah.

this is all pointless if LC has a clear mafia check on Jack btw, and he isn't like an insane cop or something.

[speedchuck]

[Jackofhearts2005]

Yeah, strongman is a wolf that ignores doctors, vests, etc.

Linki: No that is a waste.

[dunya]

[mention]Long Con[/mention] is in the house! come and free us from this insanity.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Epi doesn't even do insane cops (right?) LC probably just a baddie.

Wasn't Mac like "Of all the quiet people, I'm thinking about LC the most?" or some shit?

[Jackofhearts2005]

[mention]Long Con[/mention]

[juliets]

Epi doesn't even do insane cops (right?) LC probably just a baddie.

Wasn't Mac like "Of all the quiet people, I'm thinking about LC the most?" or some shit?

I'm pretty sure I've never been in an Epic game where there was an insane cop OR a strongman.

[novaselinenever]

@JaggedJimmyJay
Nova's bad, too.

Also, Jack what do you see about nova? I have been antsy about him not looking the same as the nova I saw in the last 3 games I played with him where he was civ, but he has a plausible excuse (school).

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I anticipate atypical Epignosis roles in this game. I am getting the impression that he wanted to put together a game that allows claiming to be possible but doesn't allow claiming to make it easier.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Epi doesn't even do insane cops (right?) LC probably just a baddie.

Wasn't Mac like "Of all the quiet people, I'm thinking about LC the most?" or some shit?

I'm pretty sure I've never been in an Epic game where there was an insane cop OR a strongman.

Insane cops are considered bastard. Strongmen are not.

I've never seen my role or Nutella's role in any game before and they're in this one.

[Jackofhearts2005]

*wiggles work mouse so I don't show as away*