Steely Dan Mafia [ENDGAME]
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Re: Steely Dan Mafia [Night 5]
I updated the most recent host post. I copied and pasted an older lynch post for the sake of saving time on the formatting since I was cooking and that particular Ctrl-V didn't take apparently.
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Re: Steely Dan Mafia [Night 5]
Alright then gang. We'll have to peel out of celebration mode and get the urgency up.
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Re: Steely Dan Mafia [Night 5]
how did you find thisJaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2019 8:00 pm Uh. In the OP and dead player list, leetic/his role is showing as green.
Just in case that's in error: @Epignosis
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Re: Steely Dan Mafia [Night 5]
And I’m just over here like why didn’t he ever check into wolfchat?
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Re: Steely Dan Mafia [Night 5]
I look frequently at the dead player lists in games to update my perspectives of the numbers and to admire all of the red names. This time it wasn't red.speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2019 8:18 pmhow did you find thisJaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2019 8:00 pm Uh. In the OP and dead player list, leetic/his role is showing as green.
Just in case that's in error: Epignosis
Don't sweat it by the way, Epi. Shit happens.
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Re: Steely Dan Mafia [Night 5]
what a roller coaster
Banners are cool, but a pain to scroll through so...
I've won a lot of games. I've hosted some games. The end.
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Re: Steely Dan Mafia [Night 5]
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2019 7:44 pm Also, unless y'all think Epi is boring and made a mafia team with both a post curser and a silencer, I guess I'm just a civilian then.
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Re: Steely Dan Mafia [Night 5]
speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2019 8:20 pmJaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2019 7:44 pm Also, unless y'all think Epi is boring and made a mafia team with both a post curser and a silencer, I guess I'm just a civilian then.
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Re: Steely Dan Mafia [Night 5]
If I think there might be an error, I tell Epi that privately before I go celebrating with my annoying faces.
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Re: Steely Dan Mafia [Night 5]
Using that tactic is something I might expect of you.JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2019 8:23 pm If I think there might be an error, I tell Epi that privately before I go celebrating with my annoying faces.
Pointing out that you wouldn't have used it, not so much.
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Re: Steely Dan Mafia [Night 5]
It would be unsportsmanlike. I play to win, but only in ways that I perceive to be honorable. It would be shitty for a mafioso to jump on a host goof for personal gain, and I don't do that stuff.speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2019 8:26 pmUsing that tactic is something I might expect of you.JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2019 8:23 pm If I think there might be an error, I tell Epi that privately before I go celebrating with my annoying faces.
Pointing out that you wouldn't have used it, not so much.
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Re: Steely Dan Mafia [Night 5]
Yeah.JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2019 8:28 pmIt would be unsportsmanlike. I play to win, but only in ways that I perceive to be honorable. It would be shitty for a mafioso to jump on a host goof for personal gain, and I don't do that stuff.speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2019 8:26 pmUsing that tactic is something I might expect of you.JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2019 8:23 pm If I think there might be an error, I tell Epi that privately before I go celebrating with my annoying faces.
Pointing out that you wouldn't have used it, not so much.
It's be even more unsportsmanlike to claim that it's shitty after doing it.
I believe you.
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Re: Steely Dan Mafia [Night 5]
Wait - what happened?
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Aug 21, 2021 3:24 pm Always good to remember that there is no such thing as a Mafia circumstance that is worth real human emotion. Sometimes it will naturally come out, but it can be contained if we just remember that this is a game on a message board forum that 99.99% of the population of the Earth has never heard of before. No matter how successful anyone is, it means just about nothing.
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Re: Steely Dan Mafia [Night 5]
leetic/Dragomir was a civilian. The original role card was in error.
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Re: Steely Dan Mafia [Night 5]
well damn and damn again.JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2019 8:34 pmleetic/Dragomir was a civilian. The original role card was in error.
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Aug 21, 2021 3:24 pm Always good to remember that there is no such thing as a Mafia circumstance that is worth real human emotion. Sometimes it will naturally come out, but it can be contained if we just remember that this is a game on a message board forum that 99.99% of the population of the Earth has never heard of before. No matter how successful anyone is, it means just about nothing.
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Re: Steely Dan Mafia [Night 5]
Epi's got juliet's cursing :O
Banners are cool, but a pain to scroll through so...
I've won a lot of games. I've hosted some games. The end.
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Re: Steely Dan Mafia [Night 5]
I'll have to reassess much of my theory of the game. Without leetic on the mafia team things don't seem so simple. It can still be something predictable like DDL/Luna, but analysis is needed. I wish I had more time.
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Re: Steely Dan Mafia [Night 5]
I'm totally bummed.
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Aug 21, 2021 3:24 pm Always good to remember that there is no such thing as a Mafia circumstance that is worth real human emotion. Sometimes it will naturally come out, but it can be contained if we just remember that this is a game on a message board forum that 99.99% of the population of the Earth has never heard of before. No matter how successful anyone is, it means just about nothing.
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Re: Steely Dan Mafia [Night 5]
Well, I have very few people I'm not rethinking.
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Aug 21, 2021 3:24 pm Always good to remember that there is no such thing as a Mafia circumstance that is worth real human emotion. Sometimes it will naturally come out, but it can be contained if we just remember that this is a game on a message board forum that 99.99% of the population of the Earth has never heard of before. No matter how successful anyone is, it means just about nothing.
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Re: Steely Dan Mafia [Night 5]
Do you mean you're still focused on a few, or you're rethinking everyone except for a few?
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Re: Steely Dan Mafia [Night 5]
[mention]speedchuck[/mention], would you be surprised to see Luna's role on the mafia team?
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Re: Steely Dan Mafia [Night 5]
I feel like I need to rethink everyone but a few. I don't want to say which ones are the few because that puts a target on their head tonight.JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2019 8:55 pmDo you mean you're still focused on a few, or you're rethinking everyone except for a few?
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Aug 21, 2021 3:24 pm Always good to remember that there is no such thing as a Mafia circumstance that is worth real human emotion. Sometimes it will naturally come out, but it can be contained if we just remember that this is a game on a message board forum that 99.99% of the population of the Earth has never heard of before. No matter how successful anyone is, it means just about nothing.
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Re: Steely Dan Mafia [Night 5]
Cool.juliets wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2019 9:00 pmI feel like I need to rethink everyone but a few. I don't want to say which ones are the few because that puts a target on their head tonight.JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2019 8:55 pmDo you mean you're still focused on a few, or you're rethinking everyone except for a few?
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Re: Steely Dan Mafia [Night 5]
NoJaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2019 8:56 pm @speedchuck, would you be surprised to see Luna's role on the mafia team?
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Re: Steely Dan Mafia [Night 2]
We've largely forgotten Neverwhere. Here's a thing.
Neverwhere, please reconcile the fact that the two highlighted bits exist in the same post.Neverwhere wrote: ↑Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:10 pm Okay I read like 6 pages and Its after midnight. I'm not going to be reading much further back because realistically I don't think I'll have time if I want to keep on top of new content.
JJJ reading greenish
Dunya I'm reading green
I'm not sure I understand elohs upset, so that gives me pause.
I want to go back and do some proper readings tomorrow on DDL and Njk...however you spell that one. I saw the two of them mentioned multiple times and want my own opinions.
I don't understand JJJs jump on me at the end of day 1. Out of all the inactives picking me seemed random as heck.
I will be around more after tomorrow hopefully.
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Re: Steely Dan Mafia [Night 5]
I think the primary source of my dunya tinfoil is that she and I are both alive -- not merely that she is still here, but that I am still here with her. I would expect to be dead by now in most other alignments.
It's possible nova jailed me Night 2 though when my action failed (and there was no kill).
It's possible nova jailed me Night 2 though when my action failed (and there was no kill).
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Re: Steely Dan Mafia [Day 5]
Not very useful now, but I just wanted to add: someone being genuinely too busy to play is not alignment indicative. Actually that's the problem with reading low posters. Someone can make the most honest and heatfelt post about how they are mega busy even if they are bad.Kites wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2019 4:02 pm not gonna join the leetic lynch
i was okay with niju lynch but i had my doubts about it
this is similar case
i think leetic is genuinely too busy to play, and had the other more interesting game going on (so not mafia here) he would rather concentrate on
it just feels too easy
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Re: Steely Dan Mafia [Night 5]
Is Reywas dead? He's appearing on both the polls and the OP.
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Re: Steely Dan Mafia [Night 5]
But that post from Epi suggested he died.
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Re: Steely Dan Mafia [Night 5]
[VOTE: jaggedjimmyjay] auberginespeedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2019 8:20 pmJaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2019 7:44 pm Also, unless y'all think Epi is boring and made a mafia team with both a post curser and a silencer, I guess I'm just a civilian then.
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Re: Steely Dan Mafia [Night 5]
Who was it that recorded funniest quotes again? [mention]nutella[/mention]?
Re: Steely Dan Mafia [Day 5]
Yo, Dragomir should still play and replace reywaS instead.
Luna's Wins/Losses
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Re: Steely Dan Mafia [Night 5]
Huh? You just send it in a PM to Sockys2019.Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2019 10:21 pm
Who was it that recorded funniest quotes again? @nutella?
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http://www.last.fm/user/nutella23 ~ http://feeling-diskinserted.tumblr.com ~ https://rateyourmusic.com/~nutella23
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Re: Steely Dan Mafia [Night 5]
Oh that's fine I just figured since you usually seem to know where all the funny quotes are.nutella wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2019 10:44 pmHuh? You just send it in a PM to Sockys2019.Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2019 10:21 pm
Who was it that recorded funniest quotes again? nutella?
Thanks.
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Re: Steely Dan Mafia [Night 5]
Do you find that post suspicious?Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2019 10:21 pm[VOTE: jaggedjimmyjay] auberginespeedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2019 8:20 pmJaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2019 7:44 pm Also, unless y'all think Epi is boring and made a mafia team with both a post curser and a silencer, I guess I'm just a civilian then.
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Re: Steely Dan Mafia [Night 5]
It is against the law to enter this thread and fail to voice a read.
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Re: Steely Dan Mafia [Night 5]
Is there a case against dunya?
I am experiencing tinfoil suspicion. Some others have said the same. In the absence of a case that is all just talk. So I am going to reassess her now in a thorough manner and see what I find and how it feels.
I will start with her interactions with Mac and Jack. I already did the former and thought it reflected well on dunya. I will look again and grade more harshly (i.e. it will take more to produce positive grades).
dunya and Mac
I liked this for dunya the first time around. I don't care now. It's WIFOM and means nothing to me either way.
I noted originally that in this case Mac could be trying to link me to dunya, as this accusation implies some kind of teammate relationship. That is perfectly applicable to a dunya who is Mac's teammate. Connecting oneself and one's teammates to the wrong people (in this case, me) is mafioso bread and butter.
Here Mac gives dunya a town read and supports one of her beefs with nova. I don't care about this.
Town credit for no reason. My initial take was that Mac was trying to pocket her. Could be. Could also just be a bullshit read on a teammate. Whatever.
Dark green in the rainbow list -- just follows from the previous point.
dunya questioned Mac about his read on her, and he responded with wise cracks. Doesn't indicate teammates to me. If it's distancing I wouldn't be surprised either.
They argue about niju a bit -- don't care
This exchange here probably endures as the best moment in the game for dunya in terms of her appearances. It'd make for creative distancing given the specificity of her gripe and the follow-through with the vote. I will note though that dunya's Mac vote was earlier in the day than most, and to my memory it did not generate a wagon. That came considerably later once numerous others engaged in the Mac dialogue. As such I carefully temper the credit.
dunya interrogated nutella for her reads, among which were placing Mac on notice. This can be called implicitly defensive of Mac, but that feels like reaching. Instead it's just incidental that he's here, and I not inclined to do much with it.
This one isn't my favorite.
Mac gets mentioned on a lengthy list of non-town reads. Means little.
I liked this one initially given that it is what spawned Mac's town read on dunya (which she later used against him). That still remains the case. It isn't hard to believe that such a connection was incidental and that mafia dunya responded to mafia Mac's play without knowing what he would say. It's another layer that must be added to the case though. It's something.
dunya made this post during the late-Day 1 period when nutella was leading the poll. So it can be said that she maintained her posture against Mac, but also did not oppose the wagon that was [for the moment] set to mislynch in his stead. That doesn't have to make dunya evil, but the context is an important component of this analysis.
linking this because of the quote error -- dunya spoke with Daisy toward EOD (about 40 minutes out) to alleviate one of her doubts about a Mac vote. I appreciate that in isolation, as Daisy's vote ended up being an important one. I do wish dunya would have been more engaged in real-time as the Mac votes began to flow in beyond this one instance.
Could be called defensive if dunya anticipates people giving Mac a pass for being asleep. That feels like a reach to me.
She signed off with this. At this point the Mac wagon had swelled to what I believe was a 7-4 lead with 15 minutes remaining. She's on the right side of history, and that should not be discounted.
Conclusion:
The core question is this:
Would a mafia dunya have a viable alternative avenue to pursue here and would she have been comfortable pursuing it? The answer to the former ought to be a "yes" -- she had voiced suspicion of nutella, and nutella was the lead counterwagon. The answer to the latter is less clear and can only be inferred based upon what one thinks of her playstyle and personality. Do I think a mafia dunya would have been comfortable switching off of Mac and onto nutella in the late stage of the Day, counter to the anti-Mac momentum which had otherwise recently appeared? I don't necessarily think so.
The case can be made that dunya is a teammate of Mac. It is no slam dunk, but the case can be made.
dunya and Jack
I did not originally perform a teammate analysis for dunya and Jack. Time was limited and she was a strong civilian read, so I focused on perceived greater priorities. I'll do it now.
Jack gives me sarcasm | about my early exchange | with dunya -- he isn't giving reads on either of us, but just adding useless commentary. Means nothing to me.
Idle chatter about DDL -- don't care
Jack protests a dunya read on nutella. No read on dunya herself is stated or implied. Meh.
We got gifs -- and I don't care
Idle questions and blabber. Meh.
Jack gives dunya a rundown of spicygate -- don't care // They chatter about it for a while and it goes nowhere
More gifs -- whatever
More softballs and more nothing. Goodness this is boring.
I'm skipping a few jokes and shit here because who cares.
On Jack's rainbow, dunya was one step above me, and I was one step above Meh. So she was a light town read or something. Dunno why, because all the previous dialogue is freaking meaningless.
They might as well be thwacking each other on the back of the hands here. This is nothing. I have never been more bored by an interactive analysis in my life. I am skipping a decent amount of this manner of idle junk now. This post would never end otherwise.
Jack specifically named dunya and nova as people [in addition to Daisy] were "misrepresenting" his suspicions of juliets and Daisy. He suggested that this did not likely form the full mafia team, and as such it's a civilian-lean for dunya. Or something. It's another one of Jack's reads-that-isn't-a-read. One has to follow the implications when the words aren't present.
dunya asked a less-than-hardball (but not quite softball either) question of Jack and then compared him to his Community Mafia self (Jack didn't play in that game). She may have meant World Flags where Jack was a civilian.
This is all still Day 1, by the way. They communicate a crap load. I just wish it went somewhere.
Blah blah blah about niju. Snore.
I'm skipping Jack's posts after Long Con outed him. I will still consider dunya's posts at that point. Moving on to her stuff now not already mentioned.
dunya compared Jack to his World Flags civilian self on a few occasions. Each time there was a caveat -- this time related to trolling. Later related to his concern/lack thereof for a nightkill
dunya makes note of Jack dissociating DDL and I as mafia teammates. That's it. She made a note. No read.
Question mark | emojis -- dunya seemed bewildered by Jack at numerous points. I don't believe she took that anywhere.
Here's a goddamn stance. I think. Kind of. It's at least a clear statement of suspicion. dunya actually pointed at a thing Jack said and then criticized it. I've been sitting here for a half hour waiting for something like this to finally appear. Sweet Christ.
And yet I still don't know what to do with it. "moving jack down my rainbow" -- THERE IS NO RAINBOW. Jack went from I don't freaking know where on the non-existent rainbow list down to I don't freaking know where. There was a No reasons to read as civilian list which did not include Jack.
dunya had at some point or another given Jack grief for reading speedchuck strongly civilian. She asked speedchuck about the same thing. Dunno if follow-ups exist.
I'll just note that this is where this post (previously linked) occurs chronologically. It is very hard to tell what dunya thinks of Jack or where he stands with her.
Okay. So as of Night 1, dunya included Jack among a list of her top six civilian reads. There is little clarity on why she feels this way. If it's only the World Flags comparison then that seems like b/s.
This was dunya's first reaction to Long Con outing Jack. It was kind of an obvious reaction, so it means little to me at this point. dunya was quick to dissuade notions of a bus -- again easy conclusions
dunya provided some interactions from Jack and implicated DDL and I as suspects to be his partner(s). The argument is pretty weak, stemming almost entirely from "you're poop" and Jack's early assertion that DDL and I are not both mafia. This is a point where I am likely to be biased given that I was her target. Judge for yourselves. She reinforced the DDL connection because Mac and Jack disagreed on him. I guess? More
dunya was not receptive of Jack's attempts to escape Long Con's check. I think teammate support for Jack in this scenario would have been suicide, so whatever.
dunya asserted Jack was lying about his role, specifically that he hands out "life vests". Turns out, he didn't. He traded a protection pledge instead. Perhaps TMI on her part.
I'm going to stop there. What remains comes on Day 3 when Jack was a dead man walking.
Conclusion:
This interaction concerns me considerably more than dunya's interaction with Mac. dunya's read on Jack was a muddy mess for nearly their entire duration in the game together prior to his being outed. Jack's read on her was somehow even less clear than that. They interacted a ton and it went absolutely nowhere. I mean it is genuinely bizarre to me to have so many posts to talk about and so little to say.
Can dunya be Jack's teammate? Absolutely.
dunya at face value
I'm also going to spend a little time talking about dunya's general play and content without regard for her interactions with the dead mafia. It is more difficult to find important points here because her post history is quite large, so I instead have to operate on memory and a thorough-but-reasonable skim (it's 1:00 AM).
I'll return to this stuff first. It was the very first thing in this game that I hated. dunya committed two crimes here as I see it:
1) Snark my initial reads and discredit the fact that I made them (and thus discredited me by extension)
2) The highlighted portion is a load of shit. Tone reads can come from anything. We all do it every damned day in Mafia games. dunya gets tone reads from the most random crap that many other people never understand (often correctly too). nova knows what's up muh boyyy
dunya shades me for thinking there might be independents. I won't say anything about this other than: it's not hard to believe the mafia team knows as much about this entering the game as does the civilian team. So her accusation could have come from a dishonest place.
She got herself all situated to give me shit for my Day 1 Neverwhere vote, and then immediately abandoned it when I answered her with a bunch of pretty WIFOM. It was very easy to change her mind about that.
Still unclear on what this was about given the context in the moment. I was roleblocked on Night 2 (perhaps by nova, and perhaps also saved from a kill). If dunya has another theory, I don't remember it.
I never cared for dunya's gripe with DDL narrowing the poll. This is, to me, nonsense.
1) DDL has a roll. He can just use the damn thing or he can not use it.
2) Many people were suspicious of the low-activity pile. He made a poll out of them. Where is the "change of direction"?
What is DDL supposed to do with his role? When is the right time to use it, and who should he have included in his poll? I don't believe my questions were ever addressed. [mention]dunya[/mention], have a redundant tag -- this point is important to me.
I get some unexplained "meh" when I revealed my choice to curse nova. Again, someone is being shaded for the way they use their role -- no alternative usage is stated. What am I supposed to do with this thing?
~~~~~
General Conclusion:
There is obviously a lot to unpack here. That's what happens for a player with 440 posts and two dead mafia with a combined 380. To be clear: there are reasons to view dunya as a civilian. It isn't something that is hard to believe. If I wanted to, I could make an alternative massive post with that emphasis. The point here was to determine if a tinfoil suspicion of dunya can be translated into anything evidence-based beyond some worthless hunch.
So can it?
I'll say yes, it can.
Does dunya make sense as a teammate of MacDougall? Making this assertion requires some reaching and a little conspiracy theory. It isn't an outlandish or unbelievable thing though. I have seen weirder things, including from dunya herself.
Does dunya make sense as a teammate of Jackofhearts2005? She does. She makes a lot of sense as Jack's teammate. It isn't a reach, and it isn't a conspiracy theory. It is a genuine problem. She will need to answer for that shit.
Does dunya look like a mafioso at face value? Overall, I would say that she does not. That's why it takes a post this massive to suggest otherwise. That doesn't mean though that she has no posts that can be questioned. They're there. I highlighted a few that came to my memory (unsurprisingly, many of them related to me).
Now this isn't vague tinfoil trash. It's a case. I want to know what everyone else thinks of it, and what they think of dunya in general.
I am experiencing tinfoil suspicion. Some others have said the same. In the absence of a case that is all just talk. So I am going to reassess her now in a thorough manner and see what I find and how it feels.
I will start with her interactions with Mac and Jack. I already did the former and thought it reflected well on dunya. I will look again and grade more harshly (i.e. it will take more to produce positive grades).
dunya and Mac
Spoiler: show
I liked this for dunya the first time around. I don't care now. It's WIFOM and means nothing to me either way.
Spoiler: show
I noted originally that in this case Mac could be trying to link me to dunya, as this accusation implies some kind of teammate relationship. That is perfectly applicable to a dunya who is Mac's teammate. Connecting oneself and one's teammates to the wrong people (in this case, me) is mafioso bread and butter.
Here Mac gives dunya a town read and supports one of her beefs with nova. I don't care about this.
Spoiler: show
Town credit for no reason. My initial take was that Mac was trying to pocket her. Could be. Could also just be a bullshit read on a teammate. Whatever.
Dark green in the rainbow list -- just follows from the previous point.
Spoiler: show
dunya questioned Mac about his read on her, and he responded with wise cracks. Doesn't indicate teammates to me. If it's distancing I wouldn't be surprised either.
They argue about niju a bit -- don't care
Spoiler: show
This exchange here probably endures as the best moment in the game for dunya in terms of her appearances. It'd make for creative distancing given the specificity of her gripe and the follow-through with the vote. I will note though that dunya's Mac vote was earlier in the day than most, and to my memory it did not generate a wagon. That came considerably later once numerous others engaged in the Mac dialogue. As such I carefully temper the credit.
Spoiler: show
dunya interrogated nutella for her reads, among which were placing Mac on notice. This can be called implicitly defensive of Mac, but that feels like reaching. Instead it's just incidental that he's here, and I not inclined to do much with it.
Spoiler: show
This one isn't my favorite.
Mac gets mentioned on a lengthy list of non-town reads. Means little.
I liked this one initially given that it is what spawned Mac's town read on dunya (which she later used against him). That still remains the case. It isn't hard to believe that such a connection was incidental and that mafia dunya responded to mafia Mac's play without knowing what he would say. It's another layer that must be added to the case though. It's something.
Spoiler: show
dunya made this post during the late-Day 1 period when nutella was leading the poll. So it can be said that she maintained her posture against Mac, but also did not oppose the wagon that was [for the moment] set to mislynch in his stead. That doesn't have to make dunya evil, but the context is an important component of this analysis.
linking this because of the quote error -- dunya spoke with Daisy toward EOD (about 40 minutes out) to alleviate one of her doubts about a Mac vote. I appreciate that in isolation, as Daisy's vote ended up being an important one. I do wish dunya would have been more engaged in real-time as the Mac votes began to flow in beyond this one instance.
Spoiler: show
Could be called defensive if dunya anticipates people giving Mac a pass for being asleep. That feels like a reach to me.
Spoiler: show
She signed off with this. At this point the Mac wagon had swelled to what I believe was a 7-4 lead with 15 minutes remaining. She's on the right side of history, and that should not be discounted.
Conclusion:
The core question is this:
Would a mafia dunya have a viable alternative avenue to pursue here and would she have been comfortable pursuing it? The answer to the former ought to be a "yes" -- she had voiced suspicion of nutella, and nutella was the lead counterwagon. The answer to the latter is less clear and can only be inferred based upon what one thinks of her playstyle and personality. Do I think a mafia dunya would have been comfortable switching off of Mac and onto nutella in the late stage of the Day, counter to the anti-Mac momentum which had otherwise recently appeared? I don't necessarily think so.
The case can be made that dunya is a teammate of Mac. It is no slam dunk, but the case can be made.
dunya and Jack
I did not originally perform a teammate analysis for dunya and Jack. Time was limited and she was a strong civilian read, so I focused on perceived greater priorities. I'll do it now.
Jack gives me sarcasm | about my early exchange | with dunya -- he isn't giving reads on either of us, but just adding useless commentary. Means nothing to me.
Idle chatter about DDL -- don't care
Spoiler: show
Jack protests a dunya read on nutella. No read on dunya herself is stated or implied. Meh.
We got gifs -- and I don't care
Spoiler: show
Idle questions and blabber. Meh.
Jack gives dunya a rundown of spicygate -- don't care // They chatter about it for a while and it goes nowhere
More gifs -- whatever
Spoiler: show
More softballs and more nothing. Goodness this is boring.
I'm skipping a few jokes and shit here because who cares.
Spoiler: show
On Jack's rainbow, dunya was one step above me, and I was one step above Meh. So she was a light town read or something. Dunno why, because all the previous dialogue is freaking meaningless.
Spoiler: show
They might as well be thwacking each other on the back of the hands here. This is nothing. I have never been more bored by an interactive analysis in my life. I am skipping a decent amount of this manner of idle junk now. This post would never end otherwise.
Spoiler: show
Jack specifically named dunya and nova as people [in addition to Daisy] were "misrepresenting" his suspicions of juliets and Daisy. He suggested that this did not likely form the full mafia team, and as such it's a civilian-lean for dunya. Or something. It's another one of Jack's reads-that-isn't-a-read. One has to follow the implications when the words aren't present.
Spoiler: show
dunya asked a less-than-hardball (but not quite softball either) question of Jack and then compared him to his Community Mafia self (Jack didn't play in that game). She may have meant World Flags where Jack was a civilian.
This is all still Day 1, by the way. They communicate a crap load. I just wish it went somewhere.
Spoiler: show
Blah blah blah about niju. Snore.
I'm skipping Jack's posts after Long Con outed him. I will still consider dunya's posts at that point. Moving on to her stuff now not already mentioned.
Spoiler: show
dunya compared Jack to his World Flags civilian self on a few occasions. Each time there was a caveat -- this time related to trolling. Later related to his concern/lack thereof for a nightkill
dunya makes note of Jack dissociating DDL and I as mafia teammates. That's it. She made a note. No read.
Question mark | emojis -- dunya seemed bewildered by Jack at numerous points. I don't believe she took that anywhere.
Spoiler: show
Here's a goddamn stance. I think. Kind of. It's at least a clear statement of suspicion. dunya actually pointed at a thing Jack said and then criticized it. I've been sitting here for a half hour waiting for something like this to finally appear. Sweet Christ.
And yet I still don't know what to do with it. "moving jack down my rainbow" -- THERE IS NO RAINBOW. Jack went from I don't freaking know where on the non-existent rainbow list down to I don't freaking know where. There was a No reasons to read as civilian list which did not include Jack.
Spoiler: show
dunya had at some point or another given Jack grief for reading speedchuck strongly civilian. She asked speedchuck about the same thing. Dunno if follow-ups exist.
Spoiler: show
I'll just note that this is where this post (previously linked) occurs chronologically. It is very hard to tell what dunya thinks of Jack or where he stands with her.
Spoiler: show
Okay. So as of Night 1, dunya included Jack among a list of her top six civilian reads. There is little clarity on why she feels this way. If it's only the World Flags comparison then that seems like b/s.
Spoiler: show
This was dunya's first reaction to Long Con outing Jack. It was kind of an obvious reaction, so it means little to me at this point. dunya was quick to dissuade notions of a bus -- again easy conclusions
dunya provided some interactions from Jack and implicated DDL and I as suspects to be his partner(s). The argument is pretty weak, stemming almost entirely from "you're poop" and Jack's early assertion that DDL and I are not both mafia. This is a point where I am likely to be biased given that I was her target. Judge for yourselves. She reinforced the DDL connection because Mac and Jack disagreed on him. I guess? More
Spoiler: show
dunya was not receptive of Jack's attempts to escape Long Con's check. I think teammate support for Jack in this scenario would have been suicide, so whatever.
Spoiler: show
dunya asserted Jack was lying about his role, specifically that he hands out "life vests". Turns out, he didn't. He traded a protection pledge instead. Perhaps TMI on her part.
I'm going to stop there. What remains comes on Day 3 when Jack was a dead man walking.
Conclusion:
This interaction concerns me considerably more than dunya's interaction with Mac. dunya's read on Jack was a muddy mess for nearly their entire duration in the game together prior to his being outed. Jack's read on her was somehow even less clear than that. They interacted a ton and it went absolutely nowhere. I mean it is genuinely bizarre to me to have so many posts to talk about and so little to say.
Can dunya be Jack's teammate? Absolutely.
dunya at face value
I'm also going to spend a little time talking about dunya's general play and content without regard for her interactions with the dead mafia. It is more difficult to find important points here because her post history is quite large, so I instead have to operate on memory and a thorough-but-reasonable skim (it's 1:00 AM).
Spoiler: show
I'll return to this stuff first. It was the very first thing in this game that I hated. dunya committed two crimes here as I see it:
1) Snark my initial reads and discredit the fact that I made them (and thus discredited me by extension)
2) The highlighted portion is a load of shit. Tone reads can come from anything. We all do it every damned day in Mafia games. dunya gets tone reads from the most random crap that many other people never understand (often correctly too). nova knows what's up muh boyyy
dunya shades me for thinking there might be independents. I won't say anything about this other than: it's not hard to believe the mafia team knows as much about this entering the game as does the civilian team. So her accusation could have come from a dishonest place.
Spoiler: show
She got herself all situated to give me shit for my Day 1 Neverwhere vote, and then immediately abandoned it when I answered her with a bunch of pretty WIFOM. It was very easy to change her mind about that.
Spoiler: show
Still unclear on what this was about given the context in the moment. I was roleblocked on Night 2 (perhaps by nova, and perhaps also saved from a kill). If dunya has another theory, I don't remember it.
Spoiler: show
I never cared for dunya's gripe with DDL narrowing the poll. This is, to me, nonsense.
1) DDL has a roll. He can just use the damn thing or he can not use it.
2) Many people were suspicious of the low-activity pile. He made a poll out of them. Where is the "change of direction"?
What is DDL supposed to do with his role? When is the right time to use it, and who should he have included in his poll? I don't believe my questions were ever addressed. [mention]dunya[/mention], have a redundant tag -- this point is important to me.
I get some unexplained "meh" when I revealed my choice to curse nova. Again, someone is being shaded for the way they use their role -- no alternative usage is stated. What am I supposed to do with this thing?
~~~~~
General Conclusion:
There is obviously a lot to unpack here. That's what happens for a player with 440 posts and two dead mafia with a combined 380. To be clear: there are reasons to view dunya as a civilian. It isn't something that is hard to believe. If I wanted to, I could make an alternative massive post with that emphasis. The point here was to determine if a tinfoil suspicion of dunya can be translated into anything evidence-based beyond some worthless hunch.
So can it?
I'll say yes, it can.
Does dunya make sense as a teammate of MacDougall? Making this assertion requires some reaching and a little conspiracy theory. It isn't an outlandish or unbelievable thing though. I have seen weirder things, including from dunya herself.
Does dunya make sense as a teammate of Jackofhearts2005? She does. She makes a lot of sense as Jack's teammate. It isn't a reach, and it isn't a conspiracy theory. It is a genuine problem. She will need to answer for that shit.
Does dunya look like a mafioso at face value? Overall, I would say that she does not. That's why it takes a post this massive to suggest otherwise. That doesn't mean though that she has no posts that can be questioned. They're there. I highlighted a few that came to my memory (unsurprisingly, many of them related to me).
Now this isn't vague tinfoil trash. It's a case. I want to know what everyone else thinks of it, and what they think of dunya in general.
Spoiler: show
Re: Steely Dan Mafia [Night 5]
[mention]JaggedJimmyJay[/mention] that’s a lot of work, thank you. I’m more persuaded by her posts with everyone overall, which feel like someone trying very hard to sound like her civ self. Her attempts to start a case on Nova, then easing up earlier on day 4 bother me. I still have her and Elohcin at the top of my list. There are others I’m not very sure about, but it’s late and I’m going to try and listen to other viewpoints tomorrow.
Re: Steely Dan Mafia [Night 5]
wow that is a huge post... dunya’s got some work to do answering to all of that
I was also very confused at first reading people celebrating a civ lynch lol
cruel it turned out to be an error
based on the initial reactions I’d say juliets’ enthusiasm looks good, i like it
JJJ and speedchuck’s reactions were more restrained, which doesn’t mean much but I’d imagine mafia would be just baffled in this situation and be like... ”okay cool” and try to play along like there’s nothing wrong with the result
I was also very confused at first reading people celebrating a civ lynch lol
cruel it turned out to be an error
based on the initial reactions I’d say juliets’ enthusiasm looks good, i like it
JJJ and speedchuck’s reactions were more restrained, which doesn’t mean much but I’d imagine mafia would be just baffled in this situation and be like... ”okay cool” and try to play along like there’s nothing wrong with the result
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Re: Steely Dan Mafia [Night 5]
Isn't it obvious it's a jokeJaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2019 11:20 pmDo you find that post suspicious?Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2019 10:21 pm[VOTE: jaggedjimmyjay] auberginespeedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2019 8:20 pmJaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2019 7:44 pm Also, unless y'all think Epi is boring and made a mafia team with both a post curser and a silencer, I guess I'm just a civilian then.
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Re: Steely Dan Mafia [Night 5]
Mata I haven't read Jay's massive case yet which I will have to do later today (great effort Jay) but clear something up for me on your suspicion. You're saying she attempts to start a case on Nova then backs off early on day 4. Many of us have suspected someone then changed our mind. What is is about dunya's change on nova speaks to you as bad? I'm not dismissing your thought here by any means I'm just trying to make sure I understand it.Matahari wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2019 2:28 am @JaggedJimmyJay that’s a lot of work, thank you. I’m more persuaded by her posts with everyone overall, which feel like someone trying very hard to sound like her civ self. Her attempts to start a case on Nova, then easing up earlier on day 4 bother me. I still have her and Elohcin at the top of my list. There are others I’m not very sure about, but it’s late and I’m going to try and listen to other viewpoints tomorrow.
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Aug 21, 2021 3:24 pm Always good to remember that there is no such thing as a Mafia circumstance that is worth real human emotion. Sometimes it will naturally come out, but it can be contained if we just remember that this is a game on a message board forum that 99.99% of the population of the Earth has never heard of before. No matter how successful anyone is, it means just about nothing.
Spoiler: show
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Re: Steely Dan Mafia [Night 5]
I will absolutely vote for nova's post for funniest - so perfect.nutella wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2019 10:44 pmHuh? You just send it in a PM to Sockys2019.Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2019 10:21 pm
Who was it that recorded funniest quotes again? @nutella?
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Aug 21, 2021 3:24 pm Always good to remember that there is no such thing as a Mafia circumstance that is worth real human emotion. Sometimes it will naturally come out, but it can be contained if we just remember that this is a game on a message board forum that 99.99% of the population of the Earth has never heard of before. No matter how successful anyone is, it means just about nothing.
Spoiler: show
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Re: Steely Dan Mafia [Day 5]
Reywas is dead though.
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Aug 21, 2021 3:24 pm Always good to remember that there is no such thing as a Mafia circumstance that is worth real human emotion. Sometimes it will naturally come out, but it can be contained if we just remember that this is a game on a message board forum that 99.99% of the population of the Earth has never heard of before. No matter how successful anyone is, it means just about nothing.
Spoiler: show
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Re: Steely Dan Mafia [Night 5]
Oops my last post was too soon. I am reading the game backwards. This is a good question - there was a host post saying he was dead.Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2019 10:19 pm Is Reywas dead? He's appearing on both the polls and the OP.
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Aug 21, 2021 3:24 pm Always good to remember that there is no such thing as a Mafia circumstance that is worth real human emotion. Sometimes it will naturally come out, but it can be contained if we just remember that this is a game on a message board forum that 99.99% of the population of the Earth has never heard of before. No matter how successful anyone is, it means just about nothing.
Spoiler: show