Steely Dan Mafia [ENDGAME]

[Epignosis]

I updated the most recent host post. I copied and pasted an older lynch post for the sake of saving time on the formatting since I was cooking and that particular Ctrl-V didn't take apparently.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Well fuck.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Alright then gang. We'll have to peel out of celebration mode and get the urgency up.

[speedchuck]

oh hell

[speedchuck]

Uh. In the OP and dead player list, leetic/his role is showing as green.

Just in case that's in error: @Epignosis

how did you find this

[Jackofhearts2005]

And I’m just over here like why didn’t he ever check into wolfchat?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Uh. In the OP and dead player list, leetic/his role is showing as green.

Just in case that's in error: Epignosis

how did you find this

I look frequently at the dead player lists in games to update my perspectives of the numbers and to admire all of the red names. This time it wasn't red.

Don't sweat it by the way, Epi. Shit happens.

[Elohcin]

what a roller coaster

[speedchuck]

Also, unless y'all think Epi is boring and made a mafia team with both a post curser and a silencer, I guess I'm just a civilian then.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Also, unless y'all think Epi is boring and made a mafia team with both a post curser and a silencer, I guess I'm just a civilian then.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

If I think there might be an error, I tell Epi that privately before I go celebrating with my annoying faces.

[speedchuck]

If I think there might be an error, I tell Epi that privately before I go celebrating with my annoying faces.

Using that tactic is something I might expect of you.

Pointing out that you wouldn't have used it, not so much.

[novaselinenever]

[JaggedJimmyJay]

If I think there might be an error, I tell Epi that privately before I go celebrating with my annoying faces.

Using that tactic is something I might expect of you.

Pointing out that you wouldn't have used it, not so much.

It would be unsportsmanlike. I play to win, but only in ways that I perceive to be honorable. It would be shitty for a mafioso to jump on a host goof for personal gain, and I don't do that stuff.

[speedchuck]

If I think there might be an error, I tell Epi that privately before I go celebrating with my annoying faces.

Using that tactic is something I might expect of you.

Pointing out that you wouldn't have used it, not so much.

It would be unsportsmanlike. I play to win, but only in ways that I perceive to be honorable. It would be shitty for a mafioso to jump on a host goof for personal gain, and I don't do that stuff.

Yeah.

It's be even more unsportsmanlike to claim that it's shitty after doing it.

I believe you.

[juliets]

Wait - what happened?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Wait - what happened?

leetic/Dragomir was a civilian. The original role card was in error.

[juliets]

Wait - what happened?

leetic/Dragomir was a civilian. The original role card was in error.

well damn and damn again.

[Elohcin]

Epi's got juliet's cursing :O

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I'll have to reassess much of my theory of the game. Without leetic on the mafia team things don't seem so simple. It can still be something predictable like DDL/Luna, but analysis is needed. I wish I had more time.

[juliets]

I'm totally bummed.

[juliets]

Well, I have very few people I'm not rethinking.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Well, I have very few people I'm not rethinking.

Do you mean you're still focused on a few, or you're rethinking everyone except for a few?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

[mention]speedchuck[/mention], would you be surprised to see Luna's role on the mafia team?

[juliets]

Well, I have very few people I'm not rethinking.

Do you mean you're still focused on a few, or you're rethinking everyone except for a few?

I feel like I need to rethink everyone but a few. I don't want to say which ones are the few because that puts a target on their head tonight.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Well, I have very few people I'm not rethinking.

Do you mean you're still focused on a few, or you're rethinking everyone except for a few?

I feel like I need to rethink everyone but a few. I don't want to say which ones are the few because that puts a target on their head tonight.

Cool.

[speedchuck]

@speedchuck, would you be surprised to see Luna's role on the mafia team?

No

[JaggedJimmyJay]

We've largely forgotten Neverwhere. Here's a thing.

Okay I read like 6 pages and Its after midnight. I'm not going to be reading much further back because realistically I don't think I'll have time if I want to keep on top of new content.

JJJ reading greenish

Dunya I'm reading green

I'm not sure I understand elohs upset, so that gives me pause.

I want to go back and do some proper readings tomorrow on DDL and Njk...however you spell that one. I saw the two of them mentioned multiple times and want my own opinions.

I don't understand JJJs jump on me at the end of day 1. Out of all the inactives picking me seemed random as heck.

I will be around more after tomorrow hopefully.

Neverwhere, please reconcile the fact that the two highlighted bits exist in the same post.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I think the primary source of my dunya tinfoil is that she and I are both alive -- not merely that she is still here, but that I am still here with her. I would expect to be dead by now in most other alignments.

It's possible nova jailed me Night 2 though when my action failed (and there was no kill).

[Lunalee]

what a rollercoaster that was.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

not gonna join the leetic lynch
i was okay with niju lynch but i had my doubts about it
this is similar case
i think leetic is genuinely too busy to play, and had the other more interesting game going on (so not mafia here) he would rather concentrate on

it just feels too easy

Not very useful now, but I just wanted to add: someone being genuinely too busy to play is not alignment indicative. Actually that's the problem with reading low posters. Someone can make the most honest and heatfelt post about how they are mega busy even if they are bad.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Is Reywas dead? He's appearing on both the polls and the OP.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

But that post from Epi suggested he died.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Also, unless y'all think Epi is boring and made a mafia team with both a post curser and a silencer, I guess I'm just a civilian then.

[VOTE: jaggedjimmyjay] aubergine

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Who was it that recorded funniest quotes again? [mention]nutella[/mention]?

[Lunalee]

I subbed in yes?

Hi! Did you sub in for leetic?

Don't know yet. Haven't received a role PM.

This guy is apparently replacing leetic.

Yo, Dragomir should still play and replace reywaS instead.

[nutella]

Who was it that recorded funniest quotes again? @nutella?

Huh? You just send it in a PM to Sockys2019.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Who was it that recorded funniest quotes again? nutella?

Huh? You just send it in a PM to Sockys2019.

Oh that's fine I just figured since you usually seem to know where all the funny quotes are.

Thanks.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Also, unless y'all think Epi is boring and made a mafia team with both a post curser and a silencer, I guess I'm just a civilian then.

[VOTE: jaggedjimmyjay] aubergine

Do you find that post suspicious?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

It is against the law to enter this thread and fail to voice a read.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I'm building a huge post, so here have some hype.

[Long Con]

RIP Dragomir, I hardly knew ye.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Is there a case against dunya?

I am experiencing tinfoil suspicion. Some others have said the same. In the absence of a case that is all just talk. So I am going to reassess her now in a thorough manner and see what I find and how it feels.

I will start with her interactions with Mac and Jack. I already did the former and thought it reflected well on dunya. I will look again and grade more harshly (i.e. it will take more to produce positive grades).

dunya and Mac

Spoiler: show

Sounds like Lunalee knows dunya is town to me.

I liked this for dunya the first time around. I don't care now. It's WIFOM and means nothing to me either way.

Spoiler: show

dunya griping about my reads being fake is the worst thing in this thread. She knows me better than that.

Funny how you say this and then have barely looked at dunya since even going as far as to give her a green skittle.

I noted originally that in this case Mac could be trying to link me to dunya, as this accusation implies some kind of teammate relationship. That is perfectly applicable to a dunya who is Mac's teammate. Connecting oneself and one's teammates to the wrong people (in this case, me) is mafioso bread and butter.

Here Mac gives dunya a town read and supports one of her beefs with nova. I don't care about this.

Spoiler: show

dunya griping about my reads being fake is the worst thing in this thread. She knows me better than that.

Please town read me so I can be n1 lynched 4 games in a row. Please. Please. Begging you please.

Lol town

Town credit for no reason. My initial take was that Mac was trying to pocket her. Could be. Could also just be a bullshit read on a teammate. Whatever.

Dark green in the rainbow list -- just follows from the previous point.

Spoiler: show

@MacDougall who are some of your town reads?

You

why?

Are there some scummy things you've done I should have noticed?

i'll never >not< be creeped out by you townreading me.

i did something scummy on day 0 where i suspected jay cos of his speedchuck/matahari reads. have a look in my early iso.

So you want me to go and find this post that you yourself say is scummy in order to scum read you so that you aren't creeped out by me town reading you?

Okay. Must be a European thing.

dunya questioned Mac about his read on her, and he responded with wise cracks. Doesn't indicate teammates to me. If it's distancing I wouldn't be surprised either.

They argue about niju a bit -- don't care

Spoiler: show

[VOTE: MacDougall] aubergine

why would town mac give dunya an easy day green pass just because she hasn't said something "scummy"? other people have found things scummy in what i've said. i don't feel you're being genuine and the sarcasm on me was lost.

i'm not even here to play my hardest civ game, so don't tell me my "civ" is shining through. explain what gave you good vibes about me or this becomes as bad as elohcin's "green" to luna that everyone took issue with imo.

I clearly pointed at a post you made that filled me with feelings of civ sincerity that you didn't bother to reference. I asked you to give me a reason not to town read you after that. You had not done so at the time but I have cause to reconsider.

You do this a lot Dunya. You think I can't read you or something. The last several times we have played together I correctly town read you. You need to update your copy of mac.exe.

This exchange here probably endures as the best moment in the game for dunya in terms of her appearances. It'd make for creative distancing given the specificity of her gripe and the follow-through with the vote. I will note though that dunya's Mac vote was earlier in the day than most, and to my memory it did not generate a wagon. That came considerably later once numerous others engaged in the Mac dialogue. As such I carefully temper the credit.

Spoiler: show

I have taken stances. Nova town. Speed bad (not sure if I still think that). Add to that you are town, juliets, luna, and mac are on notice. Call that salad, see if I care. I don't even know who all is playing bc the thread has been so lacklustre.

i checked your iso and didn't see any stances taken before this post. i don't know why you think speed was ever bad. why is nova town. why is jay town. why are luna and mac on notice specifically? i can't even recall a single thing mac has said beyond checking in? the only post you made where i could see an opinion on any player was your quote of nova re: juliets (the infamous "ohhhh sppppiCCCYYY") which implies you saw juliets in a possibly negative light, but it is speed you thought/think is bad.

i liked the fire you spat at jay, but i don't like this nutella post.

dunya interrogated nutella for her reads, among which were placing Mac on notice. This can be called implicitly defensive of Mac, but that feels like reaching. Instead it's just incidental that he's here, and I not inclined to do much with it.

Spoiler: show

i see mac's name thrown around a lot and i don't remember him posting anything except hey whatsup guys? what did i miss?

This one isn't my favorite.

Mac gets mentioned on a lengthy list of non-town reads. Means little.

MacDougall who are some of your town reads?

I liked this one initially given that it is what spawned Mac's town read on dunya (which she later used against him). That still remains the case. It isn't hard to believe that such a connection was incidental and that mafia dunya responded to mafia Mac's play without knowing what he would say. It's another layer that must be added to the case though. It's something.

Spoiler: show

i might not have agreed with lunalee's points, but i didn't feel like they were things scum lunalee would say (especially the "interesting" tell <which i liked her response to be about, reminded me of that game she played after ancient greece where she told people not to do something because it got her lynched before> and follow up post where she says "awww i almost want to believe you, but nah"). that would be almost be a mocking tone if she were mafia, and i don't feel like it's in line with luna's game personality in the same way i don't feel juliets would do that. i'd expect it of jack, nutella, speedchuck even.

if nutella and lunalee were both off the table today, who is the top suspect?

Who do you suspect?

mac, nutella, one or more of the inactives/lurkers (there's a whole long list of them), speedchuck atm

dunya made this post during the late-Day 1 period when nutella was leading the poll. So it can be said that she maintained her posture against Mac, but also did not oppose the wagon that was [for the moment] set to mislynch in his stead. That doesn't have to make dunya evil, but the context is an important component of this analysis.

linking this because of the quote error -- dunya spoke with Daisy toward EOD (about 40 minutes out) to alleviate one of her doubts about a Mac vote. I appreciate that in isolation, as Daisy's vote ended up being an important one. I do wish dunya would have been more engaged in real-time as the Mac votes began to flow in beyond this one instance.

Spoiler: show

Mac hasn't even been here to respond to JJJ's accusation. That is unfortunate.

it's 6 something am in australia. i don't think he'll be back before eod.

Could be called defensive if dunya anticipates people giving Mac a pass for being asleep. That feels like a reach to me.

Spoiler: show

came back in to witness EoD and bam, things have changed. I will not catch up before the end. What did Mac do?

he pocketed too many people. namely me, ddl and jay. did not have any suspicions or doubts where we're concerned. comes off extremely tmi and fake.

shit i gtg. stay on mac fine folks

She signed off with this. At this point the Mac wagon had swelled to what I believe was a 7-4 lead with 15 minutes remaining. She's on the right side of history, and that should not be discounted.

Conclusion:

The core question is this:

Would a mafia dunya have a viable alternative avenue to pursue here and would she have been comfortable pursuing it? The answer to the former ought to be a "yes" -- she had voiced suspicion of nutella, and nutella was the lead counterwagon. The answer to the latter is less clear and can only be inferred based upon what one thinks of her playstyle and personality. Do I think a mafia dunya would have been comfortable switching off of Mac and onto nutella in the late stage of the Day, counter to the anti-Mac momentum which had otherwise recently appeared? I don't necessarily think so.

The case can be made that dunya is a teammate of Mac. It is no slam dunk, but the case can be made.

dunya and Jack

I did not originally perform a teammate analysis for dunya and Jack. Time was limited and she was a strong civilian read, so I focused on perceived greater priorities. I'll do it now.

Jack gives me sarcasm | about my early exchange | with dunya -- he isn't giving reads on either of us, but just adding useless commentary. Means nothing to me.

Idle chatter about DDL -- don't care

Spoiler: show

My top suspect as of right this moment

i liked the attitude she gave you when she was online last night. she could have avoided you. i didn't like her lack of focus on content, but i'm not one to talk about that. plus 48hr day 0s inspire less effort, couple that with easter weekend and people have families... eh. in fact, i do think scum nutella would have tried to avoid a jay-confrontation on day 0.

That’s like saying you think train tracks would have tried to avoid a train. It’s not happening. I don’t get this read.

Jack protests a dunya read on nutella. No read on dunya herself is stated or implied. Meh.

We got gifs -- and I don't care

Spoiler: show

If Jay doesn’t come back to this with a Dunya scumread or something about the reads being for a reaction, I will eat my hat.

i wish people paid attention to things i'm saying. i never said those gut reads weren't for a reaction, i think if anyone knows the shit flinging game it's me. but i can still try to find inconsistencies in jay's play to distinguish someone faking it to authentic jay. his style isn't hard to replicate if he puts enough effort. ya'll can give him the shiniest green skittle cos he posts like a mad man but i'm happy being me.

Meant Jay’s reads.

I was right on both counts. Should I townread Jay for that?

i see mac's name thrown around a lot and i don't remember him posting anything except hey whatsup guys? what did i miss?

Jay and I are talking about Daisy talking about how Jay and I were talking about Nutella talking about Nova talking about Juliets and Mac.

Also in a vacuum, I see the second post as not w/w indicative. Scum Jay doesn’t need an excuse to not do things so his teammate doesn’t need to give him that excuse.

o.O

i...i don't know how you're reaching these conclusions exactly. you've never seen a teammate defend a teammate before? have you even mafia'd?

Jay’s a big boy and it was barely an accusation.

It read like DDL was scared of Jay or DDL was understanding of Jay, not that DDL needed to lay off cause he was barely on and it’s Jay.

Idle questions and blabber. Meh.

Jack gives dunya a rundown of spicygate -- don't care // They chatter about it for a while and it goes nowhere

More gifs -- whatever

Spoiler: show

I suspect DDL more than I suspect Jay. I’m saying if either ever flips wolf, I’m trusting the other.

are you saying you suspect both of them to varying degrees then?

linki: @Matahari it means wolf/wolf

I guess. I really shouldn’t feel better about Jay for back and forth that ends with him putting my top scumreads as his top townreads but I do.

i'm only recently learning people are offended by "scum". i'll try to change my terminology to reflect that.

I like “wolf” cause you can say shit like “Dunya is practically howling with that push” or “careful, your tail is showing” or “what big teeth you have” and other such smartassery.

More softballs and more nothing. Goodness this is boring.

I'm skipping a few jokes and shit here because who cares.

Spoiler: show

Jack, give me a rainbow

Jack
Speed
Nova
Nutella
Dunya
Jay
DDL
Juliets
Daisy

Everyone else is meh.

On Jack's rainbow, dunya was one step above me, and I was one step above Meh. So she was a light town read or something. Dunno why, because all the previous dialogue is freaking meaningless.

Spoiler: show

We’re all lined up at the starting line. and Dunya stars running the wrong way on the track and then Nutella runs into the stands and I’m just over here wondering what I missed.

Kites and Luna? Wat?

yeah? and? so? where's your vote mr. ofhearts2005?

On my suspect.

[VOTE: Spacedaisy] aubergine

Why’s your vote, Miss Unya?

lacking oomph. daisy ain't getting lynched today. who's a suspect beyond daisy/juliets, jack?

I’ve made a case. You’re voting Jay and lecturing me about who isn’t getting lynched today? Please.

They might as well be thwacking each other on the back of the hands here. This is nothing. I have never been more bored by an interactive analysis in my life. I am skipping a decent amount of this manner of idle junk now. This post would never end otherwise.

Spoiler: show

Is it paranoid to feel like the constant misrepresentation of my suspicions on Daisy/Juliets is scum indicative?

Dunya and Nova are also having this problem and I don’t think that’s just the mafia.

Linki: Why?

Jack specifically named dunya and nova as people [in addition to Daisy] were "misrepresenting" his suspicions of juliets and Daisy. He suggested that this did not likely form the full mafia team, and as such it's a civilian-lean for dunya. Or something. It's another one of Jack's reads-that-isn't-a-read. One has to follow the implications when the words aren't present.

Spoiler: show

jack, you never answered me. who's bad beyond juliets/daisy?

you're being unreasonably stubborn. you did exactly this to jay and me in community and you were wrong about both of us.

Idk. Maybe Luna.

I’m not being stubborn. If people would stop misstating my case, I’d stop restating it.

Why are you voting Nutella?

dunya asked a less-than-hardball (but not quite softball either) question of Jack and then compared him to his Community Mafia self (Jack didn't play in that game). She may have meant World Flags where Jack was a civilian.

This is all still Day 1, by the way. They communicate a crap load. I just wish it went somewhere.

Spoiler: show

I’ll go nutella, then, simply because she has more votes besides Mac, and because Mac votes are apparently last minute, which, as you’ve said, is usually a mafia move.

who is she talking to there? i couldn't tell.

Jay, I think.

It’s yuck regardless, blaming someone else for her vote. Probably spews whoever she’s talking about town if she flips red.

i lied, i'm actually way too lazy and under time constraints for other shit to look at friggin seinfeld mafia, but yeah, someone else break a leg

Was Blooper town or scum there?

Blah blah blah about niju. Snore.

I'm skipping Jack's posts after Long Con outed him. I will still consider dunya's posts at that point. Moving on to her stuff now not already mentioned.

Spoiler: show

spacedaisy is town. genuine progression of thoughts. natural flow. a beauty in this beast of a game.

jack's arguments and posts remind me slightly of world flags mafia jack but a bit less trollish...eh meh.

dunya compared Jack to his World Flags civilian self on a few occasions. Each time there was a caveat -- this time related to trolling. Later related to his concern/lack thereof for a nightkill

dunya makes note of Jack dissociating DDL and I as mafia teammates. That's it. She made a note. No read.

Question mark | emojis -- dunya seemed bewildered by Jack at numerous points. I don't believe she took that anywhere.

Spoiler: show

i hate jack's rainbow list and not because it lacked any colors, but because i don't actually believe he believes spacedaisy and juliets are his biggest scum reads in the game. even after he explained it to me like he was talking to an 8yr old.

moving jack down my rainbow.

Here's a goddamn stance. I think. Kind of. It's at least a clear statement of suspicion. dunya actually pointed at a thing Jack said and then criticized it. I've been sitting here for a half hour waiting for something like this to finally appear. Sweet Christ.

And yet I still don't know what to do with it. "moving jack down my rainbow" -- THERE IS NO RAINBOW. Jack went from I don't freaking know where on the non-existent rainbow list down to I don't freaking know where. There was a No reasons to read as civilian list which did not include Jack.

Spoiler: show

For real though I'm here.

I'm off the drugs and feel a little bit crappy. What should I look at?

jack thinks you're town. what do you make of that? in fact, you're his biggest town read.

dunya had at some point or another given Jack grief for reading speedchuck strongly civilian. She asked speedchuck about the same thing. Dunno if follow-ups exist.

Spoiler: show

jack feels like world flags jack except he doesn't seem as eager to be nk'd. especially his damn stubbornness with regards to the juliets and daisy, and not caring how bad it made him look.

I'll just note that this is where this post (previously linked) occurs chronologically. It is very hard to tell what dunya thinks of Jack or where he stands with her.

Spoiler: show

as of tonight, i feel best about nutella, juliets, daisy, jack, matahari and reluctantly jay.

Okay. So as of Night 1, dunya included Jack among a list of her top six civilian reads. There is little clarity on why she feels this way. If it's only the World Flags comparison then that seems like b/s.

Spoiler: show

holy shit, good job long con!

if there is a vig among us, take mr. ofhearts out immediately. go.

and i'm with speedchuck on this; long con wouldn't lie. he has nothing to gain and everything to lose especially when the claim was made at the start of another night. and if i had an investigative role, i'd out myself when i hit gold with someone if i don't have enough power to case them. i think almost everyone had jack in their town pile. long con certified town.

This was dunya's first reaction to Long Con outing Jack. It was kind of an obvious reaction, so it means little to me at this point. dunya was quick to dissuade notions of a bus -- again easy conclusions

dunya provided some interactions from Jack and implicated DDL and I as suspects to be his partner(s). The argument is pretty weak, stemming almost entirely from "you're poop" and Jack's early assertion that DDL and I are not both mafia. This is a point where I am likely to be biased given that I was her target. Judge for yourselves. She reinforced the DDL connection because Mac and Jack disagreed on him. I guess? More

Spoiler: show

so rereading nutella's role, she gets a role cop check for every day she survives. she survived day 1. if jack took her power because what game has 2 role cops then she should have received a vest in exchange and shouldn't have died. not buying jack.

dunya was not receptive of Jack's attempts to escape Long Con's check. I think teammate support for Jack in this scenario would have been suicide, so whatever.

Spoiler: show

I don't think confirming Jack's role even matters. Why can't that be a mafia role?

a mafia that hands out life vests? what kinda messed up shit is that? don't think epi would do a role that makes civilians thing they're protected and then then mafia just don't kill them or strongman kill them.

jack is lying. it was a good hail mary, especially how it started on speed then claimed role cop which nutella had flipped last night lol.

dunya asserted Jack was lying about his role, specifically that he hands out "life vests". Turns out, he didn't. He traded a protection pledge instead. Perhaps TMI on her part.

I'm going to stop there. What remains comes on Day 3 when Jack was a dead man walking.

Conclusion:

This interaction concerns me considerably more than dunya's interaction with Mac. dunya's read on Jack was a muddy mess for nearly their entire duration in the game together prior to his being outed. Jack's read on her was somehow even less clear than that. They interacted a ton and it went absolutely nowhere. I mean it is genuinely bizarre to me to have so many posts to talk about and so little to say.

Can dunya be Jack's teammate? Absolutely.

dunya at face value

I'm also going to spend a little time talking about dunya's general play and content without regard for her interactions with the dead mafia. It is more difficult to find important points here because her post history is quite large, so I instead have to operate on memory and a thorough-but-reasonable skim (it's 1:00 AM).

Spoiler: show

In checking!

Fun having!

Skimmed 2 pages in which JJJ analyzes stuff like "hey guys" and "hi and goodnight" and assigning each entry a different alignment sticker. I'm laughing.

In checking!

Fun having!

Skimmed 2 pages in which JJJ analyzes stuff like "hey guys" and "hi and goodnight" and assigning each entry a different alignment sticker. I'm laughing.

Implied discredit, and implied ignorance that entry posts can be read for tone even if generally featuring similar appearances, bad

I think I know all about reading tone. I literally do not see different tones in these:

Hi. And goodnight.

Hey guys

You called Matrahari good and speedchuck bad. I can even lump leetic in here, but he was wordy and gave excuses so I won't for the sake of consistency. What do you have to base Matahari's intro off of to call it a good look? Iirc you said she seems like she doesn't care? How does she not care? How does speedchuck look like he >does< care? I do not agree that you can read into tone in these two posts beyond "speed is always bad so let's start him off as bad" and I want to give Matahari civ credit because I want to. I wasn't convinced, even for Day 0 Jay-level-shit flinging and I'm gonna say what I see.

I'll return to this stuff first. It was the very first thing in this game that I hated. dunya committed two crimes here as I see it:

1) Snark my initial reads and discredit the fact that I made them (and thus discredited me by extension)
2) The highlighted portion is a load of shit. Tone reads can come from anything. We all do it every damned day in Mafia games. dunya gets tone reads from the most random crap that many other people never understand (often correctly too). nova knows what's up muh boyyy

dunya shades me for thinking there might be independents. I won't say anything about this other than: it's not hard to believe the mafia team knows as much about this entering the game as does the civilian team. So her accusation could have come from a dishonest place.

Spoiler: show

i feel like discussing my grievances with you in real time will be more productive of my time cos i don't have hours in front of the computer today unfortunately. bear with me.

i didn't like your push of a neverwhere lynch in the last hour. at all. i hated it. i want to know why you did it.

you're good and it makes me angry. should have gone to law school instead

She got herself all situated to give me shit for my Day 1 Neverwhere vote, and then immediately abandoned it when I answered her with a bunch of pretty WIFOM. It was very easy to change her mind about that.

Spoiler: show

I know why there wasn't a kill on Night 2. I dont know why there wasn't a kill last night.

Still unclear on what this was about given the context in the moment. I was roleblocked on Night 2 (perhaps by nova, and perhaps also saved from a kill). If dunya has another theory, I don't remember it.

Spoiler: show

The more I think about it the more I get pinged. The timing of this narrowed down poll is weird as hell. We have lynched mafia 2 consecutive times. 2 failed kills. We dont need direction...which a narrowed down poll offers usually (I always hate it ftr). Our direction has been on point. Feels like mafia needed a break and with all the niju talk, this would have been a perfect opportunity for mafia DDL to set up niju for a mislynch as the clear consensus. The kites omission is kinda glaring at me too.

This doesn't feel town inspired.

I never cared for dunya's gripe with DDL narrowing the poll. This is, to me, nonsense.

1) DDL has a roll. He can just use the damn thing or he can not use it.
2) Many people were suspicious of the low-activity pile. He made a poll out of them. Where is the "change of direction"?

What is DDL supposed to do with his role? When is the right time to use it, and who should he have included in his poll? I don't believe my questions were ever addressed. [mention]dunya[/mention], have a redundant tag -- this point is important to me.


I get some unexplained "meh" when I revealed my choice to curse nova. Again, someone is being shaded for the way they use their role -- no alternative usage is stated. What am I supposed to do with this thing?

~~~~~

General Conclusion:

There is obviously a lot to unpack here. That's what happens for a player with 440 posts and two dead mafia with a combined 380. To be clear: there are reasons to view dunya as a civilian. It isn't something that is hard to believe. If I wanted to, I could make an alternative massive post with that emphasis. The point here was to determine if a tinfoil suspicion of dunya can be translated into anything evidence-based beyond some worthless hunch.

So can it?

I'll say yes, it can.

Does dunya make sense as a teammate of MacDougall? Making this assertion requires some reaching and a little conspiracy theory. It isn't an outlandish or unbelievable thing though. I have seen weirder things, including from dunya herself.

Does dunya make sense as a teammate of Jackofhearts2005? She does. She makes a lot of sense as Jack's teammate. It isn't a reach, and it isn't a conspiracy theory. It is a genuine problem. She will need to answer for that shit.

Does dunya look like a mafioso at face value? Overall, I would say that she does not. That's why it takes a post this massive to suggest otherwise. That doesn't mean though that she has no posts that can be questioned. They're there. I highlighted a few that came to my memory (unsurprisingly, many of them related to me).

Now this isn't vague tinfoil trash. It's a case. I want to know what everyone else thinks of it, and what they think of dunya in general.

[Matahari]

[mention]JaggedJimmyJay[/mention] that’s a lot of work, thank you. I’m more persuaded by her posts with everyone overall, which feel like someone trying very hard to sound like her civ self. Her attempts to start a case on Nova, then easing up earlier on day 4 bother me. I still have her and Elohcin at the top of my list. There are others I’m not very sure about, but it’s late and I’m going to try and listen to other viewpoints tomorrow.

[Kites]

wow that is a huge post... dunya’s got some work to do answering to all of that

I was also very confused at first reading people celebrating a civ lynch lol
cruel it turned out to be an error
based on the initial reactions I’d say juliets’ enthusiasm looks good, i like it
JJJ and speedchuck’s reactions were more restrained, which doesn’t mean much but I’d imagine mafia would be just baffled in this situation and be like... ”okay cool” and try to play along like there’s nothing wrong with the result

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Also, unless y'all think Epi is boring and made a mafia team with both a post curser and a silencer, I guess I'm just a civilian then.

[VOTE: jaggedjimmyjay] aubergine

Do you find that post suspicious?

Isn't it obvious it's a joke

[juliets]

@JaggedJimmyJay that’s a lot of work, thank you. I’m more persuaded by her posts with everyone overall, which feel like someone trying very hard to sound like her civ self. Her attempts to start a case on Nova, then easing up earlier on day 4 bother me. I still have her and Elohcin at the top of my list. There are others I’m not very sure about, but it’s late and I’m going to try and listen to other viewpoints tomorrow.

Mata I haven't read Jay's massive case yet which I will have to do later today (great effort Jay) but clear something up for me on your suspicion. You're saying she attempts to start a case on Nova then backs off early on day 4. Many of us have suspected someone then changed our mind. What is is about dunya's change on nova speaks to you as bad? I'm not dismissing your thought here by any means I'm just trying to make sure I understand it.

[juliets]

Who was it that recorded funniest quotes again? @nutella?

Huh? You just send it in a PM to Sockys2019.

I will absolutely vote for nova's post for funniest - so perfect.

[juliets]

I subbed in yes?

Hi! Did you sub in for leetic?

Don't know yet. Haven't received a role PM.

This guy is apparently replacing leetic.

Yo, Dragomir should still play and replace reywaS instead.

Reywas is dead though.

[juliets]

Is Reywas dead? He's appearing on both the polls and the OP.

Oops my last post was too soon. I am reading the game backwards. This is a good question - there was a host post saying he was dead.