My problem with people like Logic and Jinrou is that I have no standard by which to judge them.
Jinrou marching in here acting like "Golly, Mafia is just about finding the guys doing anti-town things is where it's at!" has me scratching me head. Jinrou, if it's that easy, do you ever lose as a civilian?
Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Jun 09, 2019 9:14 pm
Excellent. Mac trusted LC, and I expected LC to be the one to go down.
I'm spit balling here, indulge me.
With a role like Officer Higgins, would one perhaps expect Mac to have been an alignment cop, or something similar?
If yes, and remembering that the host said we would not be alerted if/when our targets were changed... should an alignment cop trust the results they get from the host upon checking the alignment of another player? Therefore should the rest of us trust the reads of a possible alignment cop? How should we handle such a possibility? Or should we just chuck it to the bastard winds?
Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Jun 09, 2019 10:20 pm
I have down LC, Dys, and indiglo as civilians.
Does anyone wish to argue with me on that?
why would you put lc as town after he didnt’t hard claim yesterday?
Because he doesn't play like you, and neither do I.
I realize my answer isn't a good enough answer given our cultural differences.
Let me try again:
Long Con comes from a time when role claiming wasn't allowed, and so do I. I am more comfortable claiming, and he is probably not.
No matter: What does mafia Long Con have to gain jumping to a civilian speedchuck's defense five minutes before his lynch? What's in it for him except to bring scrutiny to him?
Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Jun 09, 2019 10:20 pm
I have down LC, Dys, and indiglo as civilians.
Does anyone wish to argue with me on that?
why would you put lc as town after he didnt’t hard claim yesterday?
And honestly I remember Lc was asked by mcdougall to hardclaim and softed info on a slot. if mac is actully the cop or rather was then, softing alignment info is a bad look
Because he doesn't play like you, and neither do I.
Jinrou wrote: ↑Sun Jun 09, 2019 10:31 pm
well i am on a 4 game winstreak on my homesite epi
maybe stop trying to find the forest when the trees are right in front of you.
With that said what do you think should make me read you as town?
You're not on your home site, are you?
but people are still the same everywhere
Tunnelers?
having played mafia between like 8 forums by now, scummy stuff doesn’t change suddenly. people might hunt differently or not notice it due to community meta, but some plays are very common
Jinrou wrote: ↑Sun Jun 09, 2019 10:31 pm
well i am on a 4 game winstreak on my homesite epi
maybe stop trying to find the forest when the trees are right in front of you.
With that said what do you think should make me read you as town?
You're not on your home site, are you?
but people are still the same everywhere
Tunnelers?
having played mafia between like 8 forums by now, scummy stuff doesn’t change suddenly. people might hunt differently or not notice it due to community meta, but some plays are very common
Well I guess you just have some work to do on your game, kid, because I'm a civilian.
Jinrou wrote: ↑Sun Jun 09, 2019 10:31 pm
well i am on a 4 game winstreak on my homesite epi
maybe stop trying to find the forest when the trees are right in front of you.
With that said what do you think should make me read you as town?
You're not on your home site, are you?
but people are still the same everywhere
Tunnelers?
having played mafia between like 8 forums by now, scummy stuff doesn’t change suddenly. people might hunt differently or not notice it due to community meta, but some plays are very common
Well I guess you just have some work to do on your game, kid, because I'm a civilian.
Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Jun 09, 2019 11:08 pm
I don't object. What's your view?
Well, largely PoE.
Also, a little bit of hinkyness from Bob himself. I was looking back, and noticed he had started being on my radar for quite a while, but was like staying quiet and not drawing attention to himself.
There was that Day 1 vote weirdness, and an explanation post that uses some of the excuses about wonky voting I've used before as mafia (association bias, I acknowledge):
colonialbob wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2019 8:11 pm
A decision is better than random and I prefer soneji to the other two with two votes so [VOTE:
soneji] aubergine
What made you go from voting me to voting the wagon I started?
Also the votes were not tied when you voted. Nut had already voted Soneji here.
Why did you prefer Soneji over Kyle and Daisy?
Clearly nobody was going to vote with me, and there was a three way tie that I did not care for. I was sus of you, sure, but it's day 1, there's only so strong a sus can be.
They were tied when I started that post, 2 v 2 v 2. With literally a minute before EOD it's not like there was time to check what had actually happened in the linki. Actually I changed my vote before posting to make sure I made it before the poll closed and it jumped from 2 to 4 votes, but again didn't have time to check who had voted or anything.
Kyle is a player who generally takes time to ease into a game and is (generally) not somebody I'm ever interested in d1. I feel relatively good about my ability to read him as the game progresses. Daisy was absentee and had some questionable voting patterns associated with her. Soneji was the only one of the three with actual reasons to be sus.
(Also sorry for the broken tag I manually typed the slash and used the wrong direction like a real dumbass)
((also sorry for being racist against asses, donkeys, and other members of subgenus Asinus))
Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Jun 09, 2019 9:14 pm
Excellent. Mac trusted LC, and I expected LC to be the one to go down.
I'm spit balling here, indulge me.
With a role like Officer Higgins, would one perhaps expect Mac to have been an alignment cop, or something similar?
If yes, and remembering that the host said we would not be alerted if/when our targets were changed... should an alignment cop trust the results they get from the host upon checking the alignment of another player? Therefore should the rest of us trust the reads of a possible alignment cop? How should we handle such a possibility? Or should we just chuck it to the bastard winds?
indiglo wrote: ↑Sun Jun 09, 2019 1:11 am
Ok, I'm home on the computer. Indulge me for a minute and allow me to completely let go of paranoia for just momentarily. I'm looking at the player list. And if I go ahead and let myself fully trust even those people I don't 100% trust, I'm curious what my suspect pool will look like. Anyone who has given me a town ping at some point in the game I'm counting as town in this PoE exercise.
coloniabob
jinrou
That's who I'm left with. Who are YOU left with, if you do your own GTH reads, and don't allow yourself to have ANY nulls at all? What does your PoE look like? In your gut, or in your heart, or whatever organ you mafia with. (Ye perverts!)
This is before I've done another read-through or vote analysis, it's just my general sense of who feels town to me this game.
Welcome to my brain 12 hours ago
Linki - Mac - we're gonna try our level best, friend.
Epignosis wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2019 3:10 pm
Really, this is all just a glamorous game- nothing more.
Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Jun 09, 2019 11:08 pm
I don't object. What's your view?
Well, largely PoE.
Also, a little bit of hinkyness from Bob himself. I was looking back, and noticed he had started being on my radar for quite a while, but was like staying quiet and not drawing attention to himself.
There was that Day 1 vote weirdness, and an explanation post that uses some of the excuses about wonky voting I've used before as mafia (association bias, I acknowledge):
colonialbob wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2019 8:11 pm
A decision is better than random and I prefer soneji to the other two with two votes so [VOTE:
soneji] aubergine
What made you go from voting me to voting the wagon I started?
Also the votes were not tied when you voted. Nut had already voted Soneji here.
Why did you prefer Soneji over Kyle and Daisy?
Clearly nobody was going to vote with me, and there was a three way tie that I did not care for. I was sus of you, sure, but it's day 1, there's only so strong a sus can be.
They were tied when I started that post, 2 v 2 v 2. With literally a minute before EOD it's not like there was time to check what had actually happened in the linki. Actually I changed my vote before posting to make sure I made it before the poll closed and it jumped from 2 to 4 votes, but again didn't have time to check who had voted or anything.
Kyle is a player who generally takes time to ease into a game and is (generally) not somebody I'm ever interested in d1. I feel relatively good about my ability to read him as the game progresses. Daisy was absentee and had some questionable voting patterns associated with her. Soneji was the only one of the three with actual reasons to be sus.
(Also sorry for the broken tag I manually typed the slash and used the wrong direction like a real dumbass)
((also sorry for being racist against asses, donkeys, and other members of subgenus Asinus))
Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Jun 09, 2019 9:14 pm
Excellent. Mac trusted LC, and I expected LC to be the one to go down.
I'm spit balling here, indulge me.
With a role like Officer Higgins, would one perhaps expect Mac to have been an alignment cop, or something similar?
If yes, and remembering that the host said we would not be alerted if/when our targets were changed... should an alignment cop trust the results they get from the host upon checking the alignment of another player? Therefore should the rest of us trust the reads of a possible alignment cop? How should we handle such a possibility? Or should we just chuck it to the bastard winds?
indiglo wrote: ↑Sun Jun 09, 2019 1:11 am
Ok, I'm home on the computer. Indulge me for a minute and allow me to completely let go of paranoia for just momentarily. I'm looking at the player list. And if I go ahead and let myself fully trust even those people I don't 100% trust, I'm curious what my suspect pool will look like. Anyone who has given me a town ping at some point in the game I'm counting as town in this PoE exercise.
coloniabob
jinrou
That's who I'm left with. Who are YOU left with, if you do your own GTH reads, and don't allow yourself to have ANY nulls at all? What does your PoE look like? In your gut, or in your heart, or whatever organ you mafia with. (Ye perverts!)
This is before I've done another read-through or vote analysis, it's just my general sense of who feels town to me this game.
Welcome to my brain 12 hours ago
Linki - Mac - we're gonna try our level best, friend.
What day 1 vote weirdness? If you think I bussed, say that.
I fail to see how that response is scummy.
Sure, you and Mac suspected me and jinrou. So what? If you're trying to say that's why Mac died, why wouldn't you be the target? After all you're a lot higher on most people's civ list than he was.
Predators don't represent black people because that sends the message that black people used to be "savage" until they decided to be more like white people, making it safe for both races to live together. Additionally, that would make the main character arc a story about how a scrappy white police officer overcomes racism against white people to save the day. Bob is racist for thinking this is the case.
Prey doesn't represent black people because then the movie is about how white on black violence is actually a plot concocted by black people to make white people look bad. This from a movie that comes on the heels of high profile incidents like the deaths of Trayvon Martin and Eric Garner, would be incredibly racist. Mac is racist for believing this is the case.
They're also both racist for comparing black people to animals. In a game about a children's movie no less. You should both be ashamed of yourselves.
In all seriousness, the truth is that despite being framed as a allegory about race relations in America, Zootopia doesn't say anything at all about racism. There is no systemic racism in Zootopia. It merely contains individuals like Mr. Hopps who believe in untrue sterotypes about other animals, individuals like Bellweather who use this individual prejudice to their advantage and jokes/plot points that use whatever animal is convenient as a metaphor for whatever race is convenient but only for the duration of the joke or as it relates to that specific plot point.
The message of equality and tolerance is entirely undercut by the fact that different mammals are waaaaaaaaaay more different than people of different skin colors. A woman that clutches her purse closely in the elevator when a big black man enters but does not do the same when a similarly sized white man enters is racist. As far as she knows, these men are the same but for their skin color. A rabbit who is fine sitting next to a sheep but not sitting next to a wolf is justified because unlike a sheep, a wolf can fucking eat her and it is a plot point that wolves used to go around eating rabbits. Both sidesing the issue and saying that everyone just needs to not judge people by the color of their skin is the most patronizing level 1 message you could possibly have as the conclusion to your movie about racism and that's exactly what Zootopia does.
To be fair, it's really hard even for movies that are not aimed primarily at children to say something insightful about race without being entirely ham-handed about it. Crash won best picture in 2004 and it is just as shallow as Zootopia while spending far less time with likable characters. If you haven't seen it, Zootopia is still more than worth watching because it is at the very least incredibly funny. There are several scenes that I can watch over and over and laugh at every time and that's worth something, even without a deep message.
Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Jun 09, 2019 11:08 pm
I don't object. What's your view?
Well, largely PoE.
Also, a little bit of hinkyness from Bob himself. I was looking back, and noticed he had started being on my radar for quite a while, but was like staying quiet and not drawing attention to himself.
There was that Day 1 vote weirdness, and an explanation post that uses some of the excuses about wonky voting I've used before as mafia (association bias, I acknowledge):
colonialbob wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2019 8:11 pm
A decision is better than random and I prefer soneji to the other two with two votes so [VOTE:
soneji] aubergine
What made you go from voting me to voting the wagon I started?
Also the votes were not tied when you voted. Nut had already voted Soneji here.
Why did you prefer Soneji over Kyle and Daisy?
Clearly nobody was going to vote with me, and there was a three way tie that I did not care for. I was sus of you, sure, but it's day 1, there's only so strong a sus can be.
They were tied when I started that post, 2 v 2 v 2. With literally a minute before EOD it's not like there was time to check what had actually happened in the linki. Actually I changed my vote before posting to make sure I made it before the poll closed and it jumped from 2 to 4 votes, but again didn't have time to check who had voted or anything.
Kyle is a player who generally takes time to ease into a game and is (generally) not somebody I'm ever interested in d1. I feel relatively good about my ability to read him as the game progresses. Daisy was absentee and had some questionable voting patterns associated with her. Soneji was the only one of the three with actual reasons to be sus.
(Also sorry for the broken tag I manually typed the slash and used the wrong direction like a real dumbass)
((also sorry for being racist against asses, donkeys, and other members of subgenus Asinus))
Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Jun 09, 2019 9:14 pm
Excellent. Mac trusted LC, and I expected LC to be the one to go down.
I'm spit balling here, indulge me.
With a role like Officer Higgins, would one perhaps expect Mac to have been an alignment cop, or something similar?
If yes, and remembering that the host said we would not be alerted if/when our targets were changed... should an alignment cop trust the results they get from the host upon checking the alignment of another player? Therefore should the rest of us trust the reads of a possible alignment cop? How should we handle such a possibility? Or should we just chuck it to the bastard winds?
indiglo wrote: ↑Sun Jun 09, 2019 1:11 am
Ok, I'm home on the computer. Indulge me for a minute and allow me to completely let go of paranoia for just momentarily. I'm looking at the player list. And if I go ahead and let myself fully trust even those people I don't 100% trust, I'm curious what my suspect pool will look like. Anyone who has given me a town ping at some point in the game I'm counting as town in this PoE exercise.
coloniabob
jinrou
That's who I'm left with. Who are YOU left with, if you do your own GTH reads, and don't allow yourself to have ANY nulls at all? What does your PoE look like? In your gut, or in your heart, or whatever organ you mafia with. (Ye perverts!)
This is before I've done another read-through or vote analysis, it's just my general sense of who feels town to me this game.
Welcome to my brain 12 hours ago
Linki - Mac - we're gonna try our level best, friend.
What day 1 vote weirdness? If you think I bussed, say that.
I fail to see how that response is scummy.
Sure, you and Mac suspected me and jinrou. So what? If you're trying to say that's why Mac died, why wouldn't you be the target? After all you're a lot higher on most people's civ list than he was.
I think you may have bussed. Happy?
Also, have you understood ANY of the reasons behind ANY of the night kills up to this point? Why would they start making sense now? And why would you choose to use that argument when the NKs have been beyond kooky since Night 1?
Linki with myself!!! OMG I'VE CREATED A HOLE IN THE TIME-SPACE CONTINUUM WITH MY CONTINUED USE OF MULTI-TABS!!! SAVE YOURSELVES!!!
Epignosis wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2019 3:10 pm
Really, this is all just a glamorous game- nothing more.
Predators don't represent black people because that sends the message that black people used to be "savage" until they decided to be more like white people, making it safe for both races to live together. Additionally, that would make the main character arc a story about how a scrappy white police officer overcomes racism against white people to save the day. Bob is racist for thinking this is the case.
Prey doesn't represent black people because then the movie is about how white on black violence is actually a plot concocted by black people to make white people look bad. This from a movie that comes on the heels of high profile incidents like the deaths of Trayvon Martin and Eric Garner, would be incredibly racist. Mac is racist for believing this is the case.
They're also both racist for comparing black people to animals. In a game about a children's movie no less. You should both be ashamed of yourselves.
In all seriousness, the truth is that despite being framed as a allegory about race relations in America, Zootopia doesn't say anything at all about racism. There is no systemic racism in Zootopia. It merely contains individuals like Mr. Hopps who believe in untrue sterotypes about other animals, individuals like Bellweather who use this individual prejudice to their advantage and jokes/plot points that use whatever animal is convenient as a metaphor for whatever race is convenient but only for the duration of the joke or as it relates to that specific plot point.
The message of equality and tolerance is entirely undercut by the fact that different mammals are waaaaaaaaaay more different than people of different skin colors. A woman that clutches her purse closely in the elevator when a big black man enters but does not do the same when a similarly sized white man enters is racist. As far as she knows, these men are the same but for their skin color. A rabbit who is fine sitting next to a sheep but not sitting next to a wolf is justified because unlike a sheep, a wolf can fucking eat her and it is a plot point that wolves used to go around eating rabbits. Both sidesing the issue and saying that everyone just needs to not judge people by the color of their skin is the most patronizing level 1 message you could possibly have as the conclusion to your movie about racism and that's exactly what Zootopia does.
To be fair, it's really hard even for movies that are not aimed primarily at children to say something insightful about race without being entirely ham-handed about it. Crash won best picture in 2004 and it is just as shallow as Zootopia while spending far less time with likable characters. If you haven't seen it, Zootopia is still more than worth watching because it is at the very least incredibly funny. There are several scenes that I can watch over and over and laugh at every time and that's worth something, even without a deep message.
Predators don't represent black people because that sends the message that black people used to be "savage" until they decided to be more like white people, making it safe for both races to live together. Additionally, that would make the main character arc a story about how a scrappy white police officer overcomes racism against white people to save the day. Bob is racist for thinking this is the case.
Prey doesn't represent black people because then the movie is about how white on black violence is actually a plot concocted by black people to make white people look bad. This from a movie that comes on the heels of high profile incidents like the deaths of Trayvon Martin and Eric Garner, would be incredibly racist. Mac is racist for believing this is the case.
They're also both racist for comparing black people to animals. In a game about a children's movie no less. You should both be ashamed of yourselves.
In all seriousness, the truth is that despite being framed as a allegory about race relations in America, Zootopia doesn't say anything at all about racism. There is no systemic racism in Zootopia. It merely contains individuals like Mr. Hopps who believe in untrue sterotypes about other animals, individuals like Bellweather who use this individual prejudice to their advantage and jokes/plot points that use whatever animal is convenient as a metaphor for whatever race is convenient but only for the duration of the joke or as it relates to that specific plot point.
The message of equality and tolerance is entirely undercut by the fact that different mammals are waaaaaaaaaay more different than people of different skin colors. A woman that clutches her purse closely in the elevator when a big black man enters but does not do the same when a similarly sized white man enters is racist. As far as she knows, these men are the same but for their skin color. A rabbit who is fine sitting next to a sheep but not sitting next to a wolf is justified because unlike a sheep, a wolf can fucking eat her and it is a plot point that wolves used to go around eating rabbits. Both sidesing the issue and saying that everyone just needs to not judge people by the color of their skin is the most patronizing level 1 message you could possibly have as the conclusion to your movie about racism and that's exactly what Zootopia does.
To be fair, it's really hard even for movies that are not aimed primarily at children to say something insightful about race without being entirely ham-handed about it. Crash won best picture in 2004 and it is just as shallow as Zootopia while spending far less time with likable characters. If you haven't seen it, Zootopia is still more than worth watching because it is at the very least incredibly funny. There are several scenes that I can watch over and over and laugh at every time and that's worth something, even without a deep message.
Mac - we're gonna try our level best, friend.
OMG I'VE CREATED A HOLE IN THE TIME-SPACE CONTINUUM WITH MY CONTINUED USE OF MULTI-TABS!!! SAVE YOURSELVES!!! 