Phenon: Origins REDUX [MAFIA WIN]

[Akemi Homura]

[VOTE: Juliet] aubergine for now. at least one mafioso is a consistent, unchanging identity (possibly but probably not Golf). as such i will begin with my chief suspicion.

Guide me through your logic here Charlie. How am I more likely to be mafia?

[Kent Brockman]

Anyone else still think it's weird that Bravo was on the winning lynch train and immediately thought we had lynched a baddie?

Working in the hotel industry as long as I have, I’ve learned to not always assume that weird people are bad people. I take Bravo’s weirdness here as a good thing.

[Kent Brockman]

I’ve been thinking about my read of Echo and I realized that my biggest reason for suspect him is his treatment of me and Golf in the lynch. But for that suspicion to be true then Golf needed to be bad. I have read over Golf’s post and I am pretty certain he was civ. In fact if I had been active at that point I would have possibly tried to save him because I am surprised that anyone even suspected him in the first place, that’s how civ his ISO looked to me. My fault for not being here.

Do you still believe you were the mislynch scapegoat?

[sprityo]

i'm still me. i am of the perspective that the disguiser kills a player, takes their account, and then the disguiser's own identity is shown as the kill instead.

sprityo, if you're able to confirm or deny that it'd be appreciated

Correct

[PonySparkPrime]

Sure they do, they’re probably someone else now.

Wait, that's not how it works, is it? If mafia targeted a player to kill and assume control of their account, I don't think the kill would be announced to the thread.

I assumed their old identity would be killed in place of their target?

[PonySparkPrime]

I’ve been thinking about my read of Echo and I realized that my biggest reason for suspect him is his treatment of me and Golf in the lynch. But for that suspicion to be true then Golf needed to be bad. I have read over Golf’s post and I am pretty certain he was civ. In fact if I had been active at that point I would have possibly tried to save him because I am surprised that anyone even suspected him in the first place, that’s how civ his ISO looked to me. My fault for not being here.

Do you still believe you were the mislynch scapegoat?

Can you explain the question? I believe Golf was civ, so it’s unlikely that Echo was doing it with bad intentions.

[Kent Brockman]

I’ve been thinking about my read of Echo and I realized that my biggest reason for suspect him is his treatment of me and Golf in the lynch. But for that suspicion to be true then Golf needed to be bad. I have read over Golf’s post and I am pretty certain he was civ. In fact if I had been active at that point I would have possibly tried to save him because I am surprised that anyone even suspected him in the first place, that’s how civ his ISO looked to me. My fault for not being here.

Do you still believe you were the mislynch scapegoat?

Can you explain the question? I believe Golf was civ, so it’s unlikely that Echo was doing it with bad intentions.

Picking a random inactive is one thing. But there was a strong attempt to coordinate movement to me, which looks to me like a save attempt. It wasn’t just like, well there is no one better so why not an inactive? It was an attempt to get me lynched instead. Shady shit imo.

[Kent Brockman]

[VOTE: Golf] aubergine

I'd not echo echo, but he is very right. The number of times I see mafia say "You are now my town read" is huge. Same for "Not sure if awkward roleplay or scum."

hmm

[VOTE: Alpa] aubergine. I do not like this vote. I do not like that Alpha was cautious about sheeping Echo too much. I do not know if I believe either of the tells they mentioned are real things.

[Echo]

I am surprised, as I was expecting two deaths. I did not expect the disguiser kill to replace the factional kill, but rather to be an additional kill to the regularly scheduled factional kill.

[Echo]

[VOTE: Juliet] aubergine for now. at least one mafioso is a consistent, unchanging identity (possibly but probably not Golf). as such i will begin with my chief suspicion.

Guide me through your logic here Charlie. How am I more likely to be mafia?

This is not the response I expect of a civilian at least 75% of the time. Some civilians are capable of this, but not most.

[Echo]

I’ve been thinking about my read of Echo and I realized that my biggest reason for suspect him is his treatment of me and Golf in the lynch. But for that suspicion to be true then Golf needed to be bad. I have read over Golf’s post and I am pretty certain he was civ. In fact if I had been active at that point I would have possibly tried to save him because I am surprised that anyone even suspected him in the first place, that’s how civ his ISO looked to me. My fault for not being here.

Do you still believe you were the mislynch scapegoat?

Can you explain the question? I believe Golf was civ, so it’s unlikely that Echo was doing it with bad intentions.

Picking a random inactive is one thing. But there was a strong attempt to coordinate movement to me, which looks to me like a save attempt. It wasn’t just like, well there is no one better so why not an inactive? It was an attempt to get me lynched instead. Shady shit imo.

The only person that could have possibly been the one conducting such "shady shit" is myself. Yet Delta has rationalised that even though my ultimate move was to vote for Golf, who Delta has determined was a civilian, this somehow clears me.

It is questionable logic. I understand it, but I am not sure that it is a civilian minded progression.

Choosing to exercise discretion on their own analysis however, is, I am want to trust Delta at this time.

[Echo]

I think we can all agree that India was the disguiser. That is very obvious as that kill makes no sense otherwise.

India-scum had managed two whole posts. So expect the new version of India to muster the same amount of energy, if not less, as the challenge has now become even greater.

[Echo]

Charlie has exhibited extremely similar posting habits to their Day 1. I do not think Charlie is the one whose skin has been taken, which is a surprise as it is who I would have chosen.

Perhaps Charlie is playing the vocal deepwolf role while the disguiser just lurks.

[Echo]

Delta appears to be the same person that they were from before.

[Echo]

Foxtrot remains a problem that requires a solution. Hotel is also the same person that they were previously.

[Echo]

The flips do not tell us who flipped. So how does Bravo know Golf was bad?

Anyone else still think it's weird that Bravo was on the winning lynch train and immediately thought we had lynched a baddie?

Possible Delta > Juliet?

[Echo]

So... I guess this makes all previous reads unrealiable?

I do not like the underlying intention of this post.

The logic is disagreeable, given that there is still probably a wolf wearing the same sheepskin here, and the comment only serves to reset civilian reads. I do not see why a civilian would have this opinion.

[Kent Brockman]

The flips do not tell us who flipped. So how does Bravo know Golf was bad?

Anyone else still think it's weird that Bravo was on the winning lynch train and immediately thought we had lynched a baddie?

Possible Delta > Juliet?

I do not understand the question.

[Echo]

The flips do not tell us who flipped. So how does Bravo know Golf was bad?

Anyone else still think it's weird that Bravo was on the winning lynch train and immediately thought we had lynched a baddie?

Possible Delta > Juliet?

I do not understand the question.

Juliet had not yet voiced a concern about how Bravo handled the lynch train. Delta had. I am posing the question as to where there is logic in thinking that Delta was the disguiser and chose Juliet's skin.

[Kent Brockman]

So... I guess this makes all previous reads unrealiable?

I do not like the underlying intention of this post.

The logic is disagreeable, given that there is still probably a wolf wearing the same sheepskin here, and the comment only serves to reset civilian reads. I do not see why a civilian would have this opinion.

it is hyperbolic. there is a need to reset some reads. there is no need to throw day 1 out the window.

[Kent Brockman]

The flips do not tell us who flipped. So how does Bravo know Golf was bad?

Anyone else still think it's weird that Bravo was on the winning lynch train and immediately thought we had lynched a baddie?

Possible Delta > Juliet?

I do not understand the question.

Juliet had not yet voiced a concern about how Bravo handled the lynch train. Delta had. I am posing the question as to where there is logic in thinking that Delta was the disguiser and chose Juliet's skin.

Wouldn't Delta need to be dead for that to work?

[Echo]

The flips do not tell us who flipped. So how does Bravo know Golf was bad?

Anyone else still think it's weird that Bravo was on the winning lynch train and immediately thought we had lynched a baddie?

Possible Delta > Juliet?

I do not understand the question.

Juliet had not yet voiced a concern about how Bravo handled the lynch train. Delta had. I am posing the question as to where there is logic in thinking that Delta was the disguiser and chose Juliet's skin.

Wouldn't Delta need to be dead for that to work?

Of course, ignore me.

[Echo]

So... I guess this makes all previous reads unrealiable?

I do not like the underlying intention of this post.

The logic is disagreeable, given that there is still probably a wolf wearing the same sheepskin here, and the comment only serves to reset civilian reads. I do not see why a civilian would have this opinion.

it is hyperbolic. there is a need to reset some reads. there is no need to throw day 1 out the window.

And the "so... I guess" is the way Mafia introduce thoughts they aren't confident in introducing to the game. I would expect a civilian who genuinely feels this way to say something more like "I think day 1 reads are unreliable now." It reads like someone trying to put a negative thought into the gamethread in the hopes a civilian picks it up and agrees with it.

[Kent Brockman]

I think we can all agree that India was the disguiser. That is very obvious as that kill makes no sense otherwise.

India-scum had managed two whole posts. So expect the new version of India to muster the same amount of energy, if not less, as the challenge has now become even greater.

Alternative hypothesis: India-scum planned on shapeshifting all along and laid low on Day 1 to conceal their personality. Day 2 they are free to be any person they feel comfortable replicating.

Foxtrot remains a problem that requires a solution. Hotel is also the same person that they were previously.

But if we follow the first hypothesis, Foxtrot is a very easy target. Maybe too easy and too obvious.

[Kent Brockman]

[VOTE: Juliet] aubergine

Pretty much agreed with Charlie's analysis about them, and I didn't like how they reacted to it.

I wonder how much Kilo believes in that post anyway. Their very next post was a vote for Juliet based on Charlie's analysis of Day 1. I would like to know what Kilo thinks about the identity thief role and how to handle this day.

[Echo]

I think we can all agree that India was the disguiser. That is very obvious as that kill makes no sense otherwise.

India-scum had managed two whole posts. So expect the new version of India to muster the same amount of energy, if not less, as the challenge has now become even greater.

Alternative hypothesis: India-scum planned on shapeshifting all along and laid low on Day 1 to conceal their personality. Day 2 they are free to be any person they feel comfortable replicating.

Foxtrot remains a problem that requires a solution. Hotel is also the same person that they were previously.

But if we follow the first hypothesis, Foxtrot is a very easy target. Maybe too easy and too obvious.

Foxtrot doesn't have to be the disguiser to be bad.

[Saito]

So... I guess this makes all previous reads unrealiable?

I do not like the underlying intention of this post.

The logic is disagreeable, given that there is still probably a wolf wearing the same sheepskin here, and the comment only serves to reset civilian reads. I do not see why a civilian would have this opinion.

[VOTE: Juliet] aubergine

Pretty much agreed with Charlie's analysis about them, and I didn't like how they reacted to it.

I wonder how much Kilo believes in that post anyway. Their very next post was a vote for Juliet based on Charlie's analysis of Day 1. I would like to know what Kilo thinks about the identity thief role and how to handle this day.

I love how the two notifications are attacking me for two completely opposite reasons.

[Saito]

Because they are both true, imo.

Day 1 reads are unreliable. Especially civ ones. Sorry Echo, it's just the truth. We have to stay paranoid for people who changed the way they post, even if in slight ways.

But we also have to come up with some reason to vote. And the Day 1 stuff is there to analyse, can't run away from it. And besides, the very nature of the ability should make baddie reads more reliable than civ ones, since only civs will be swapped.

[Saito]

Yes I just defended two opposite things in the same post. Booyah, motherfuckers.

[Saito]

Foxtrot remains a problem that requires a solution. Hotel is also the same person that they were previously.

I dunno I find Hotel's roleplay style very easy to mimic.

I would think it's harder when it's a normal person's way of talking.

[Saito]

Heck, I just noticed Day 2 Hotel does not continue his roleplay style.

Spoiler: show

[Akemi Homura]

i'm still me. i am of the perspective that the disguiser kills a player, takes their account, and then the disguiser's own identity is shown as the kill instead.

sprityo, if you're able to confirm or deny that it'd be appreciated

Correct

ooooooh. thanks.

[Akemi Homura]

Heck, I just noticed Day 2 Hotel does not continue his roleplay style.

Spoiler: show

I think it's genuine Hotel. An imposter would be trying to emulate hotel's style at least a little, right?

[Echo]

Foxtrot remains a problem that requires a solution. Hotel is also the same person that they were previously.

I dunno I find Hotel's roleplay style very easy to mimic.

I would think it's harder when it's a normal person's way of talking.

I wasn't analysing their role play I was analysing their grammar and sentence structuring.

[Echo]

Because they are both true, imo.

Day 1 reads are unreliable. Especially civ ones. Sorry Echo, it's just the truth. We have to stay paranoid for people who changed the way they post, even if in slight ways.

But we also have to come up with some reason to vote. And the Day 1 stuff is there to analyse, can't run away from it. And besides, the very nature of the ability should make baddie reads more reliable than civ ones, since only civs will be swapped.

Yes I just defended two opposite things in the same post. Booyah, motherfuckers.

The fact that you felt the need to make this second post after the first is enough reason to lynch you today. You clearly became self conscious of having that first post analysed and tried to get in front of it. This is something that nets Mafia A LOT.

[Echo]

I am surprised, as I was expecting two deaths. I did not expect the disguiser kill to replace the factional kill, but rather to be an additional kill to the regularly scheduled factional kill.

Can someone tell me why this is an incorrect thing to have expected?

[PonySparkPrime]

I’ve been thinking about my read of Echo and I realized that my biggest reason for suspect him is his treatment of me and Golf in the lynch. But for that suspicion to be true then Golf needed to be bad. I have read over Golf’s post and I am pretty certain he was civ. In fact if I had been active at that point I would have possibly tried to save him because I am surprised that anyone even suspected him in the first place, that’s how civ his ISO looked to me. My fault for not being here.

Do you still believe you were the mislynch scapegoat?

Can you explain the question? I believe Golf was civ, so it’s unlikely that Echo was doing it with bad intentions.

Picking a random inactive is one thing. But there was a strong attempt to coordinate movement to me, which looks to me like a save attempt. It wasn’t just like, well there is no one better so why not an inactive? It was an attempt to get me lynched instead. Shady shit imo.

The only person that could have possibly been the one conducting such "shady shit" is myself. Yet Delta has rationalised that even though my ultimate move was to vote for Golf, who Delta has determined was a civilian, this somehow clears me.

It is questionable logic. I understand it, but I am not sure that it is a civilian minded progression.

Choosing to exercise discretion on their own analysis however, is, I am want to trust Delta at this time.

Misrepresentation there bud. I didn’t clear you. But your actions at lynch end look much less suspect to me if I am correct about Golf. That doesn’t make you civ, it just means I let go of something I found suspicious in light of other factors after I ISOed Golf.

[PonySparkPrime]

I think we can all agree that India was the disguiser. That is very obvious as that kill makes no sense otherwise.

India-scum had managed two whole posts. So expect the new version of India to muster the same amount of energy, if not less, as the challenge has now become even greater.

I agree here regarding the India kill.

[Echo]

I’ve been thinking about my read of Echo and I realized that my biggest reason for suspect him is his treatment of me and Golf in the lynch. But for that suspicion to be true then Golf needed to be bad. I have read over Golf’s post and I am pretty certain he was civ. In fact if I had been active at that point I would have possibly tried to save him because I am surprised that anyone even suspected him in the first place, that’s how civ his ISO looked to me. My fault for not being here.

Do you still believe you were the mislynch scapegoat?

Can you explain the question? I believe Golf was civ, so it’s unlikely that Echo was doing it with bad intentions.

Picking a random inactive is one thing. But there was a strong attempt to coordinate movement to me, which looks to me like a save attempt. It wasn’t just like, well there is no one better so why not an inactive? It was an attempt to get me lynched instead. Shady shit imo.

The only person that could have possibly been the one conducting such "shady shit" is myself. Yet Delta has rationalised that even though my ultimate move was to vote for Golf, who Delta has determined was a civilian, this somehow clears me.

It is questionable logic. I understand it, but I am not sure that it is a civilian minded progression.

Choosing to exercise discretion on their own analysis however, is, I am want to trust Delta at this time.

Misrepresentation there bud. I didn’t clear you. But your actions at lynch end look much less suspect to me if I am correct about Golf. That doesn’t make you civ, it just means I let go of something I found suspicious in light of other factors after I ISOed Golf.

So you think I am Mafia then? You accuse me of misrepresenting you. I must be Mafia?

[PonySparkPrime]

Why do we need to tell you that when the host has already confirmed that it works another way.

[PonySparkPrime]

Dude stop putting words in my mouth, when I think you are mafia I will call you out as such. You think cubs can’t misrepresent someone unintentionally? Bias make sure us read things certain ways sometimes and can lead to misrepresentation.

[PonySparkPrime]

Dude stop putting words in my mouth, when I think you are mafia I will call you out as such. You think civs can’t misrepresent someone unintentionally? Bias makes us read things certain ways sometimes and can lead to misrepresentation.

EBWOP

[Echo]

Why do we need to tell you that when the host has already confirmed that it works another way.

Show me where please.

Dude stop putting words in my mouth, when I think you are mafia I will call you out as such. You think cubs can’t misrepresent someone unintentionally? Bias make sure us read things certain ways sometimes and can lead to misrepresentation.

Misrepresentation is an accusation. "Being wrong" is the benign form of this.

[PonySparkPrime]

i'm still me. i am of the perspective that the disguiser kills a player, takes their account, and then the disguiser's own identity is shown as the kill instead.

sprityo, if you're able to confirm or deny that it'd be appreciated

Correct

ooooooh. thanks.

I’m done talking to you about nonsense. I’d rather scum hunt then get drug into fucking meaningless arguments.

[Echo]

i'm still me. i am of the perspective that the disguiser kills a player, takes their account, and then the disguiser's own identity is shown as the kill instead.

sprityo, if you're able to confirm or deny that it'd be appreciated

Correct

ooooooh. thanks.

I’m done talking to you about nonsense. I’d rather scum hunt then get drug into fucking meaningless arguments.

I presume you've quoted the wrong thing here?

I am questioning you. This is not a "meaningless fucking argument", this is me trying to analyse your motivations and roles. Avoiding assisting me does not assist a civilian outcome.

[PonySparkPrime]

And I answered you and you want to get into an argument of semantics. You don’t like my answer, fine. But I’m not arguing at length over stuff that doesn’t get us anywhere. You can go argue with someone else. It is nonsense to argue the meaning of the word misrepresentation. If I think you are bad you will have no question about it. I have no problems putting my reads in the thread.

I have not quoted the wrong thing. That was what you asked me to show you.

[Echo]

i'm still me. i am of the perspective that the disguiser kills a player, takes their account, and then the disguiser's own identity is shown as the kill instead.

sprityo, if you're able to confirm or deny that it'd be appreciated

Correct

ooooooh. thanks.

I’m done talking to you about nonsense. I’d rather scum hunt then get drug into fucking meaningless arguments.

This doesn't clarify whether the disguiser kill occurs in addition to or instead of the factional kill.

[PonySparkPrime]

I believe we would have seen two kills if that were the case. Also, it would be OP in a game this small to give the mafia two kills

[Echo]

And I answered you and you want to get into an argument of semantics. You don’t like my answer, fine. But I’m not arguing at length over stuff that doesn’t get us anywhere. You can go argue with someone else. It is nonsense to argue the meaning of the word misrepresentation. If I think you are bad you will have no question about it. I have no problems putting my reads in the thread.

I have not quoted the wrong thing. That was what you asked me to show you.

Ugh.

It is not nonsense to question the motivations of using pointed commentary to describe how I have behaved when there are less pointed ways of describing it. This is analysing your behaviour in a very ordinary way. "Why did he choose to use this descriptor". It's very basic and ordinary scum hunting, not some horrible encroachment on your peace and tranquility.

I was asking the question of why you would say I am misrepresenting you as opposed to pointing at that I am misunderstanding you. There are ways to describe what I did from your perspective, many of them, and you chose the most provocative and accusatory way to describe it, which contrasts with the fact that you do not suspect me. It's a valid concern.

I will not be pushed around by someone over simply doing my civilian duty. Pull your head in.

[Echo]

I believe we would have seen two kills if that were the case. Also, it would be OP in a game this small to give the mafia two kills

Hence why I am asking this question Delta. There are other ways a second kill does not appear. Quite basic and ordinary civilian roles exist to prevent Mafia kills.

I never even remotely entertained the notion that there was only one kill until this flip and nobody batted an eyelid. I was entirely under the impression the disguiser kill was an additional one.

I'm not sure that it's OP either. It's not a large Mafia team.

At any rate, I was asking for feedback and I have at least received yours, you don't think it was likely to be an additional kill, cool, I'd like others input.