Phenon: Origins REDUX [MAFIA WIN]

[dodo]

Spoiler: show

Sure dude, whatever.

Nope, nope, nope. See, this is a baddie manipulation of this mechanic. This is what a baddie would want us to do. This is how they would spin this.

[VOTE: Juliet] aubergine

Delta's response to Bravo's vote was to pay it absolutely no mind and roll eyes. Is that really how a civ responds to that sort of accusation?

Ultimately Delta and Bravo voted together on Juliet, which had the added effect of saving Bravo.

I think Bravo is OG wolf and Delta is the disguised.

It is a civ response indeed, because i am civ and it was my response. When someone votes you with no justification? I’m not wasting my time on it. Bravo is shady. I’ve said it since I first read list. If he wants to bring a credible accusation against me I’d be glad to refute him. In the meantime I have better things to do, like scum hunting.

Let me rephrase. Your post-mortem read on Golf is faker than *insert something fake and witty*.

I don’t care if you thought it was fake. I wasn’t interested in Golf for Golf’s sake. I read him because I needed to decide what I thought about Echo. And what I felt about Golf made me realize what I was suspecting Echo of didn’t hold water so I let it go. I don’t know what you want me to say to this stupid ass accusation. “It’s fake.” It’s not fake, it was my actual thoughts. There you go.

Disgusting post. You managed to write all this and say nothing, that is impressive.

"It's my actual thoughts". Lol. How about substantiating those? I'd like to hear about what exactly made you go "wow Golf is so civ".

You haven’t given any substantial argument for me to even need to respond to. Your accusations are all sarcastic commentary rather than any kind of case. So no, I shag about your so called case against me. It is just your personal opinion with no basis in reality. Bring something worth talking about and I will respond.

There is something worth talking about. Your read on Golf. Saying "Looking at his iso, he's so civ", "It was my actual thoughts" isn't talking about it. How is asking you exactly what about Gold made you think that not worth responding to?

[dodo]

I guess hissy fit shit fights are your bread and better. They're the only things keeping your sad little wolfy existence relevant. Playing the victim, side-stepping, arguing semantics, redirecting, ignoring parts and concentrating on irrelevant stuff.

I'll indulge you, Delta-kun.

[dodo]

In the meantime I have better things to do, like scum hunting.

Lol.

[Marge Simpson]

[mention]Delta[/mention]: address points made one-by-one instead of shrugging them away derisively.

[mention]Bravo[/mention]: make your points without the infuriating snark that is driving Delta to drink.

or i swear i will murder you both

[PonySparkPrime]

I guess hissy fit shit fights are your bread and better. They're the only things keeping your sad little wolfy existence relevant. Playing the victim, side-stepping, arguing semantics, redirecting, ignoring parts and concentrating on irrelevant stuff.

I'll indulge you, Delta-kun.

Hissy fit implies I’m angry or upset. I’m not in the least. I’m just not bothering to indulge things I see as pointless. That’s all. In the past when I played I’ve got all caught up defending in a back forth defending myself. Just not going to exert that energy on what I believe is a baseless accusation. Again give me a case I feel like requires a defense and I’ll give you one.

Regarding Golf, you want to tell me you think he was bad? Because if so it's my turn to make a snarky and/or sarcastic comment like “hilarious. You are so obvi bad.” Or some equally condescending way of saying that your gut says I’m lying. Which is the very definition of baseless. Don’t get me wrong, I’ve got no problem with gut, I play mostly by gut myself. But don't fool yourself into thinking you’re presenting a case against me. Because you aren’t.

To answer the one and only actual question you’ve asked (which frankly seems like waste of time to make me go back and refresh my thoughts on someone dead two game days ago...), I felt like the progression ofGolf’s posts read like a civ response to situations. When Charlie questioned his joke, and Kilo turned around and questioned Charlie, Golf seemed pinged by Kilo, not Charlie. And when pressed about it by Kilo he showed the mind set of a civ who is trying to look at all the possibilities rather than a baddie looking for a safe lynch to latch onto. His read on Kilo changed as the day went on, in what looked like a really natural way. And he shared it without being pressed to do so. Baddies share when they need to, they don’t want put into a corner, so they like to leave their options open as long as possible. He pressed other players for firm answers when they seemed to be wishy washy. He seemed to be trying to sort out his thoughts about players steeped in rp without trying to make them the main event on Day 1 which would be easy to do as a baddie. My only complaint about him were it was unclear what his reasons were for the actual votes he placed, but again o think that is a civ lean because a baddie wouldn’t want to leave question marks, they want it to look natural and normal to place their vote wherever they do. I don’t see much at all in Golf that can be faulted as bad.

Now, thank you for wasting my time. You can now vote me and pretend it’s because I’ve been so unconvincing to you. Quote me and make a pithy comment ridiculing how obviously bad I am. I’ve done my due diligence in this conversation and I really am moving on now to other things.

[PonySparkPrime]

[mention]Charlie[/mention] He only made one point and I just did address it.

[dodo]

I guess hissy fit shit fights are your bread and better. They're the only things keeping your sad little wolfy existence relevant. Playing the victim, side-stepping, arguing semantics, redirecting, ignoring parts and concentrating on irrelevant stuff.

I'll indulge you, Delta-kun.

Hissy fit implies I’m angry or upset. I’m not in the least. I’m just not bothering to indulge things I see as pointless. That’s all. In the past when I played I’ve got all caught up defending in a back forth defending myself. Just not going to exert that energy on what I believe is a baseless accusation. Again give me a case I feel like requires a defense and I’ll give you one.

Regarding Golf, you want to tell me you think he was bad? Because if so it's my turn to make a snarky and/or sarcastic comment like “hilarious. You are so obvi bad.” Or some equally condescending way of saying that your gut says I’m lying. Which is the very definition of baseless. Don’t get me wrong, I’ve got no problem with gut, I play mostly by gut myself. But don't fool yourself into thinking you’re presenting a case against me. Because you aren’t.

To answer the one and only actual question you’ve asked (which frankly seems like waste of time to make me go back and refresh my thoughts on someone dead two game days ago...), I felt like the progression ofGolf’s posts read like a civ response to situations. When Charlie questioned his joke, and Kilo turned around and questioned Charlie, Golf seemed pinged by Kilo, not Charlie. And when pressed about it by Kilo he showed the mind set of a civ who is trying to look at all the possibilities rather than a baddie looking for a safe lynch to latch onto. His read on Kilo changed as the day went on, in what looked like a really natural way. And he shared it without being pressed to do so. Baddies share when they need to, they don’t want put into a corner, so they like to leave their options open as long as possible. He pressed other players for firm answers when they seemed to be wishy washy. He seemed to be trying to sort out his thoughts about players steeped in rp without trying to make them the main event on Day 1 which would be easy to do as a baddie. My only complaint about him were it was unclear what his reasons were for the actual votes he placed, but again o think that is a civ lean because a baddie wouldn’t want to leave question marks, they want it to look natural and normal to place their vote wherever they do. I don’t see much at all in Golf that can be faulted as bad.

Now, thank you for wasting my time. You can now vote me and pretend it’s because I’ve been so unconvincing to you. Quote me and make a pithy comment ridiculing how obviously bad I am. I’ve done my due diligence in this conversation and I really am moving on now to other things.

You're wasting your own time Delta-Kun. I mean just read your own post, it's mostly some rambling about my 'baseless case', 'gut-read', my 'snarky remarks' when you could have cut to the chase. You desperately need this interaction, Delta-kun.

You're putting words into my mouth. I never said I think they were bad for certain, nor even alluded at their alignment. My gripe was and still is with your post-mortem read on them, most specifically your certainty of it. It's in the too much information territory. You've shared some reads here and there, and none of them come close to your degree of certainty with Golf after barely reconsidering the events of EoD and "having read his ISO'".

It isn't a waste of time, and I'm not sure why a civ like you claim to be would consider it such. That read without any substance behind it looks fake. "Having read his ISO" isn't a reasoning, especially not for a such a strong read that claim to would have tried to save them if you were around at the time. You even apologized for not being around, that's hilariously over-dramatic (lol). The fact that you don't seem to be grasping why someone might question it or be suspicious of it is, rings all kind of bells. This isn't even taking into consideration the 180° you did after shading Echo for the EoD1, and linking him to Golf with him trying to keep an avenue open for the later.

Thank you for expending on your read. I have to be honest though, I remain unconvinced and it is frankly underwhelming. Bland injections such as "reads like a civ response to situation to me", "mind set of a civ" "what looked like a natural way" don't do much for me. Especialy when it comes to an extremely strong read, like the one you had on Golf. I thought you had an epiphany when reading Golf's ISO, this is disappointing. Nonetheless, I'll check the receipts.

It's hilarious to me how you're acting like I'm wasting your time, and that you have better things to do when you haven't even attempted to do anything else. It's even more hilarious that you felt the need to keep belittling my suspicions of you. I mean no one is stopping you from posting about other things while interacting with me. No one is stopping you from even ignoring this interaction if your time is so valuable. You're the one milking our interaction, perhaps to avoid doing other things. It is the same thing you've done with Echo previously. While the latter seemed to think that Wolves are unlikely to engage in these kind of interactions, I disagree. They always do while trying to act like they have better things to do and that it's a waste of time. Just like you seem to be doing, Delta-kun. It's an easy way to keep a semblance of participation.

[dodo]

Delta-kun, I have a few questions for you if you would indulge me. All that scum-hunting and 'other things' must be keeping you busy, so I'd understand if you don't.

[dodo]

Someone talk to me about Kilo. They're on the shitlist as well.

[sprityo]

greetings from ireland

Echo has died.

Day 3 starts

[dodo]

Hmmm that doesn't look like a Disguiser kill.

[dodo]

Delta-kun, why Echo?

[dodo]

Where is the Innkeeper?

[sprityo]

breakfast doesn’t start in the lobby until 7:00

[Celeste]

I didn't ask the host because I assume that he left that particular thing ambiguous for a reason. I also wanted to use it as a discussion point to create more content from. ie. I am quite sure that you are now being town read by Charlie because of this... I have yet to determine whether I agree with him. I have a theory about you.

Egghh

[Celeste]

Oh Echo died

[Marge Simpson]

Oh Echo died

no he didn't. he's you.

[VOTE: Alpha] aubergine

[Marge Simpson]

Bravo and Delta, i want each of you to tell me in detail exactly how you read one another right this instant.

it may seem pointless; please do it anyway. i have my reasons for making this request.

[Celeste]

Oh Echo died

no he didn't. he's you.

[VOTE: Alpha] aubergine

Can see why you think that

But no

[Marge Simpson]

in fact i want to see comprehensive reads lists from everyone. tell me what you think of every player alive. this is more than a token call for effort. do it.

[mention]Alpha[/mention]
[mention]Bravo[/mention]
[mention]Delta[/mention]
[mention]Foxtrot[/mention]
[mention]Hotel[/mention]
[mention]Kilo[/mention]

[Marge Simpson]

Oh Echo died

no he didn't. he's you.

[VOTE: Alpha] aubergine

Can see why you think that

But no

why do i think that

[Celeste]

Oh Echo died

no he didn't. he's you.

[VOTE: Alpha] aubergine

Can see why you think that

But no

why do i think that

. . .

Dropping voice again because my train of thought here is important. Because no, I don't know why you think that. I misremembered something I did.

When Juliets died, I saw Sprityo's post about it. I was checking in, but didn't have time to read everything. Juliet's death was AFTER the echo post I've just reacted to, and I hadn't read that. So when you suspected me, I assumed it was because I was reacting to something even though I posted later than it. Inconsistency.

Only I hadn't posted later. Misremembered. There was no way you would have known that I jumped in and saw a later post. The false inconsistency that I thought you'd 'seen' didn't actually exist.

So why do you think that?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

we have seven players alive. we know that the game must mechanically only exist in one of two states:

5 vs. 2
6 vs. 1

the former is plausible enough that it should be treated as current even if it isn't for the sake of the balance of power in the poll. two mafia votes in coordination are enough for them to do whatever they want if everyone dicks around on their own pet suspects. stay activated throughout the day phase, and then we need to consolidate effectively before the deadline.

if there's only one left, this does nothing to help that one person.

[Celeste]

Do think Echo could be disguiser though

[Celeste]

Will determine readlist today

[Marge Simpson]

who the hell is that guy?

[Marge Simpson]

. . .

Dropping voice again because my train of thought here is important. Because no, I don't know why you think that. I misremembered something I did.

When Juliets died, I saw Sprityo's post about it. I was checking in, but didn't have time to read everything. Juliet's death was AFTER the echo post I've just reacted to, and I hadn't read that. So when you suspected me, I assumed it was because I was reacting to something even though I posted later than it. Inconsistency.

Only I hadn't posted later. Misremembered. There was no way you would have known that I jumped in and saw a later post. The false inconsistency that I thought you'd 'seen' didn't actually exist.

So why do you think that?

i've read this four times, and i still can't figure out what you mean. please rephrase.

i don't think it anymore. i didn't recognize the voice in your initial bit there that i accused, and the sequence of quoting some echo post followed by "oh derp" looked fake.

[Marge Simpson]

[VOTE: Kilo] aubergine

[Celeste]

. . .

Dropping voice again because my train of thought here is important. Because no, I don't know why you think that. I misremembered something I did.

When Juliets died, I saw Sprityo's post about it. I was checking in, but didn't have time to read everything. Juliet's death was AFTER the echo post I've just reacted to, and I hadn't read that. So when you suspected me, I assumed it was because I was reacting to something even though I posted later than it. Inconsistency.

Only I hadn't posted later. Misremembered. There was no way you would have known that I jumped in and saw a later post. The false inconsistency that I thought you'd 'seen' didn't actually exist.

So why do you think that?

i've read this four times, and i still can't figure out what you mean. please rephrase.

i don't think it anymore. i didn't recognize the voice in your initial bit there that i accused, and the sequence of quoting some echo post followed by "oh derp" looked fake.

I thought I had posted after the Echo post I'd just reacted to. Since I didn't react to the Echo post until now, I'd assumed you were calling me out on the inconsistency.

But I'd only checked for the night post, and had not posted. There was no inconsistency for you to call me out on.

[Celeste]

Difficult for disguiser to be now

Alpha - yes
Bravo - no
Charlie - very yes
Delta - middle
Foxtrot - no
Hotel - yes before stop being hotel, now no
Kilo - yes

[Celeste]

very yes because effort, not because meta knowledge that nobody know

[Celeste]

Kilo should be no

Mixed up list

Alpha - yes
Bravo - no
Charlie - very yes
Delta - middle
Foxtrot - no
Hotel - yes before stop being hotel, now no
Kilo - no

[Celeste]

[VOTE: Kilo] aubergine

This because Kilo weird defensive thing, tone, then disappear? Or other reason?

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAgree with those

[Marge Simpson]

[VOTE: Kilo] aubergine

This because Kilo weird defensive thing, tone, then disappear? Or other reason?

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAgree with those

they've been more self-aware than most. Echo was also the one who was most animated about lynching them.

[Celeste]

Spoiler: show

Hotel problem.

Roleplay dropped when needed, like my scream. That fine. But grammar is suspect.
If Hotel replace disguiser night one, may explain. Grammar after night one very force. Stiff language, no abbreviate. Feels more stiff than before. Example.

[VOTE: Alpa] aubergine. I do not like this vote. I do not like that Alpha was cautious about sheeping Echo too much. I do not know if I believe either of the tells they mentioned are real things.

But there is slip after.

So... I guess this makes all previous reads unrealiable?

I do not like the underlying intention of this post.

The logic is disagreeable, given that there is still probably a wolf wearing the same sheepskin here, and the comment only serves to reset civilian reads. I do not see why a civilian would have this opinion.

it is hyperbolic. there is a need to reset some reads. there is no need to throw day 1 out the window.

This look language someone not used to capital in mafia. Real Hotel slipping, because they not usual capital? Or replacement under pressure?

[Celeste]

[VOTE: Kilo] aubergine

This because Kilo weird defensive thing, tone, then disappear? Or other reason?

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAgree with those

they've been more self-aware than most. Echo was also the one who was most animated about lynching them.

This assume echo not disguiser. Not bad assumption, just note

[Marge Simpson]

i am wondering at the moment if India was a decoy kill to sow discord (everyone assumes it's the work of the disguiser), and that Juliet was the disguiser.

[Marge Simpson]

i can generally agree regarding Hotel, Alpha. my recognition of the character of Hotel's posts diminishes after Night 1, and it isn't just the roleplay. i'm less concerned with capitalization and more concerned with the tone and structure of sentences. pre-Day 2, i see a friendly, inquisitive individual with a splash of roleplay. post-Night 1, i see an emotionless analyst

[Marge Simpson]

do i think this night killed player was likely to be the disguiser?

India:
- i can't confidently discount the notion given that they only had two posts. it's compatible even if i don't really find it to be a strong argument.

Echo:
- i don't think this person looked like a mafioso, and they were in a strong posture to survive without switching bodies. the only bodies they could newly inhabit without inheriting unnecessary suspicion would be mine or Alpha's, arguably, and i am already prepared to discard that.

given then that i think Echo was more likely to be a standard night kill, and that India can only at best qualify as an "i guess so" candidate, i think the disguiser might be dead. such is my rationale. between Golf and Juliet, i absolutely lean toward the latter as the higher likelihood candidate.

[Marge Simpson]

a caveat would be that if the vanilla mafioso is dead, the disguiser is the only one who can kill -- and if a body swap is mandatory then there you go. i'll ask the question privately.

[Marge Simpson]

the entire argument between Delta and Bravo has looked like bickering civilians to me. if i have to shoot one of them, i shoot Bravo first. snark (Bravo) is at face value worse to me than a desire to focus on other matters (Delta).

[Celeste]

i can generally agree regarding Hotel, Alpha. my recognition of the character of Hotel's posts diminishes after Night 1, and it isn't just the roleplay. i'm less concerned with capitalization and more concerned with the tone and structure of sentences. pre-Day 2, i see a friendly, inquisitive individual with a splash of roleplay. post-Night 1, i see an emotionless analyst

Activity falloff too.

Possible extra indicate disguise India. But not certain.

[Saito]

Someone talk to me about Kilo. They're on the shitlist as well.

He is a handsome fellow.

[Saito]

Oh Echo died

no he didn't. he's you.

[VOTE: Alpha] aubergine

Wait what

I'm really townreading alpha rn.

[Saito]

we have seven players alive. we know that the game must mechanically only exist in one of two states:

5 vs. 2
6 vs. 1

the former is plausible enough that it should be treated as current even if it isn't for the sake of the balance of power in the poll. two mafia votes in coordination are enough for them to do whatever they want if everyone dicks around on their own pet suspects. stay activated throughout the day phase, and then we need to consolidate effectively before the deadline.

if there's only one left, this does nothing to help that one person.

Wrong account, buddy.

[Saito]

Tip: I use Kilo on my PC and my original account on phone. This way I don't have to think about switching accounts, just make sure I only play mafia on PC.

[Saito]

the entire argument between Delta and Bravo has looked like bickering civilians to me. if i have to shoot one of them, i shoot Bravo first. snark (Bravo) is at face value worse to me than a desire to focus on other matters (Delta).

I don't have an opinion because I skipped like 70% of it.

I hate back and forths.

I wanna see them talking about other people.

[Saito]

Ok guys sorry for my lack of activity lately, been busy. WIll try to make up for that.

Anyway, I think Alpha and Charlie are civs. The rest is whatever. Don't have an actual bad read right now.

Hotel needs to come back to the playground. Fox is actually making fun of our attempts to make him play the game which would warrant a policy lynch in my book, if it wasn't for the game being close to end.

Bravo is kind of meh, I do not like how he took a while to drop out of roleplay but he did it and is now playing. Nothing he says makes me feel him as civ though. Delta feels like he has done much more defensing himself than otherwise, which I don't like much, but maybe it's because people attacked him more than most people.

[Saito]

I don't have an opinion because I skipped like 70% of it.

I hate back and forths.

I wanna see them talking about other people.

Like, a back and forth between two people is usually a series of arguments about meaning and semantics and seldom brings something new to the table that wasn't brought up in the first post that started the argument. And explaining your actions when being accused is way, way easier for mafia than making scumhunting posts that look legit.

If anything, I'm paranoid of two players who spend too long on it. One of them might be a mafioso taking advantage of it to increase their post count.

[Saito]

[VOTE: Foxtrot] aubergine

Let's see what the fox says under pressure.