Dogs vs. Cats [END]

[nutella]

I like this. People scum reading me. More of what I'm used to.

...??????

If you guys can't at all agree with what I'm saying then I guess that's just too bad. I find all that fooling around that I did to be irrelevant and not at all scummy. You guys disagree. Let's agree to disagree and move on from this.

That's the second time you've made this defense-- "Oh, I don't think I looked scummy!" That's a very easy thing to say from a scum perspective as a defense. Not convincing.

These posts suck, nutella. The pile of question marks comes in response to an ordinary post, and the second post adds nothing but a further dampening of the atmosphere for Dragomir. "It's very easy to say from a scum perspective" means less when it can just as easily be said from a civilian perspective -- indeed it is not remotely rare for civilians to tell people that the suspicions against them are not actually suspicious. Everything is obviously in the eye of the beholder, but logic means fuck all. The real concern is sincerity. I don't get the impression you're looking for the latter.

Uhhh weren't you calling me lock town just a minute ago

I don't get what your gripes are here. You're skipping the post after the question marks where I elaborated, and I don't care what you think of the other post, it was a thought I had that maybe I didn't articulate perfectly but in my head was a bad look for drago. In any case I now think he is town.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Uhhh weren't you calling me lock town just a minute ago

No. Also who cares? Why does this question exist? I hate it.

[nutella]

First:

The @Dragomir case

Dragomir imho really plays off, I agree once to novas point that Dragomir is basically powering through. Drago comes off a bit offminded (if that's a word). I used so many off's sometimes I could think of an "uff". Drago only dared to counterpush JJJ and even when I placed a vote on JJJ Drago did not try to safe his ass. Some points that make it hard for me to read Drago, and if he is town he often gets himself read easily. That's also why Dragomir sometimes is a good N1 kill if there is no protection around him.

All in all Dragomir feels like he is hiding something, could also be anything tbh. He is unclear to me and indeed partially scummy for my taste.

@JaggedJimmyJay
this is my first answer to you and bringing forward my concern about Dragomir to Dragomir, so he can imply these points in his defense.

I also don't know anything about Long Con in this case. Dragomir likes to attack randomly.

About you, I was a bit harsh on you and since I don't know your scumplay I am cautious about everything, but I think we are fine if we decide to move on and expand our reads at that point.


about Mac, I must honestly say he started off as civillian and keeps it. He has a strong opinion and underlines it, even if shortly and he makes it hard to read him deeper, but only on a superficial point of view. He is buddying Fayt against Dragomir and me.

I thought Fayt was part of the recent MU wave but they're not lol

Sup Starlight

We already have something of substance to talk about, people. If you haven't already piped in, I want to know what y'all think of Dragomir or anything related to the conversation surrounding Dragomir.

So for the dragomir thing, I might be late on this because I haven't had a chance to reply until now. There are things I'm unsure of and this is off of first impressions but I do lean scum on him. As reasons stated above but also because of Dragomir not wanting to do first impressions but then jump onto another target (i.e. LC) so he must think of something about LC that strikes him as odd or did he just drop the LC name to get people off of his back.

Secondly, I don't think Dragomir and JJJ are bussing each other. If they are then I'm definitely fooled. If Dragomir turns out to be scum, I find Jay as town and vice versa. However, there is a chance they could both be town but I don't think both would be scum.

Fake. Super fake. Fayt is bad.

"I do lean scum on him". She is emphasising "I do" as opposed to just "I lean". She is responding someone who does not. There is only one person who has actively said that they do not and that is Rej. This is consequentially distancing of Rej.

The second paragraph spews both Jay and Drago as town.

This for example is literal stuff, like almost philosophy about grammar and it's true meaning behind it. I mean wtf at this point. Maybe I am to noobish for this shit, but I clearly didn't distance myself. I rather tried to engage and find something out for myself.
Like right now. You dissect Fayts wording, at this point it wasn't really needed but you used it to push Dragomir.

Okay either Drago is scum and you did a lucky push against Dragomir, coordinated with @Fayt. Or you are scum that really searched for an asspull to push Dragomir and help building a wagon on him.

I don't know what to think because of your generall strong towny appeareance...but I feel there was something off in your play or just very well coordinated.

I think more ISO on Mac is not needed. I wanna look into Dom vs Drago but first I will play Overwatch with a friend. So I will still track you guys until EoD.

Dude literally what on earth are you talking about

You clearly did not read the same post I did lol. Mac is suspecting Fayt and implying that drago must be town bc fayt "spewed" him. I have no idea how you are getting this opposite interpretation.

[nutella]

I'm voting for Dragomir. I'm probably wrong. I don't care. I do stupid things. Like chase cars.

This really pisses me off. Epi is bad.

I.... think this is genuine frustration. I never actually placed a vote on Dragomir but if I had I would be unvoting right about now. That opens up the Fayt avenue (mac's spew theory) so I may look in that direction

What? Why is that the post that moves you?

It's not just that post, though that was a particular moment that represented what I felt was a series of genuine pleas from him.

[nutella]

Uhhh weren't you calling me lock town just a minute ago

No. Also who cares? Why does this question exist? I hate it.

Not a question, I actually thought you did. I must be thinking of epi/mac/someone else. I swear you called me town. Didn't you?? Now it's a question lol

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Uhhh weren't you calling me lock town just a minute ago

No. Also who cares? Why does this question exist? I hate it.

Not a question, I actually thought you did. I must be thinking of epi/mac/someone else. I swear you called me town. Didn't you?? Now it's a question lol

I called you town. I didn't call you "lock" town. I don't know why that is important to you when you are answering an accusation.

[Fayt]

The following tidbits come from Day 4 of the Scrimmage game, and not from this game. I wish only to draw a comparison:

Spoiler: show

You stand charged with copious TMI, a huge cobb salad, and a general unwillingness to adapt your reads to the developments of the game day to day.

TMI my ass. I had pinged 2 players as hard towns on perfectly logical reasons. You guys might do some bad things but one must have to ignore a great deal of things that proves you being town to say that you're scum and I find that asinine.

The salad means nothing. That shit is only bad if the player just suggest a bunch of ppl but then does nothing to push on them later on or has done nothing to push on them in past. The player is being passive and sheepish. That makes a salad really bad imo. If a player has been pushing for their salad players all game or at least tried to make cases on them, a salad is not scummy.

Why is this a bad thing and why should my reads have changed? Literally all the players in my scum reads have done absolutely nothing to convince to me that they're town. Not a single post of theirs is even town to me so why in bloody name's should my read change? The only that made me change my read on DDL was a cop invest. Like hell, how they interacted with Ultra hardly helps their(my scum reads) case if it does at all. I even ended up with a stronger scum read on Owner and DDL based off how Ultra's flip.

These reasonings against me are ludicrous.

Dragomir has been the most suspicious person since then and has somehow avoided lynching and the tide keeps turning away from him. I wonder why. Can we lynch him now please.

Because I'm not as suspicious as you guys actually believe.

I disagree

I disagree harder.

Don't think I'll ever say my town reads again. I just got pocketed by the entire mafia squad.

I acknowledge the contextual difference: different game, different time in the game. Whatever. I don't think those are super meaningful differences and so I proceed.

Dragomir took flak throughout this game, but he survived all of it. The criticism continued to mount through the finish, and when it reached its worst levels he responded with posts like those in the spoiler. Note the language: "the reasonings against me are ludicrous" / "I'm not as suspicious as you guys actually believe" -- these closely parallel what we've seen in this game. Dragomir seems to have a tendency to dismiss suspicion against him in this sort of obstinate, off-hand fashion. It doesn't have to be motivated by his role card if it's motivated by who he is.

Then consider the last post in the spoiler. Dragomir placed errant trust in much of the mafia team, and indeed in that game the attacks he received (in the specific posts I provided) were from members of the mafia (Mac and I). This sort of portends the reflections of suspicion he has displayed here.

I think this works in his favor.

After seeing this as his town play under pressure, I feel the case for Dragomir as scum is weaker in my head. That said, I would put him more for neutral for now. I'm not entirely too sure what @dragomir is saying about having something extra for LC that's not info.

As the case for Rej, I'm not liking the no vote when he has a couple of suspects. He wants us to go back to Dragomir but doesn't want to place the vote himself. I'm not sure what to make of that.

What does "spewed" mean? @nutella

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Rej's play to this point is certainly confusing. I don't follow the thread of his reads on anyone really apart perhaps from his read on me.

[nutella]

Uhhh weren't you calling me lock town just a minute ago

No. Also who cares? Why does this question exist? I hate it.

Not a question, I actually thought you did. I must be thinking of epi/mac/someone else. I swear you called me town. Didn't you?? Now it's a question lol

I called you town. I didn't call you "lock" town. I don't know why that is important to you when you are answering an accusation.

I was just surprised that you suddenly had an issue with some of my posts out of nowhere. I know you try to avoid confirmation bias from your reads, but if you had previously townread me I just don't understand how you found anything wrong with those posts.

[nutella]

[mention]Fayt[/mention] Spew is when scum inadvertently outs someone as town. Mac used it to say that since he thinks you're bad, the perspective in your post implied that neither drago nor jay could be teammates with you.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I was just surprised that you suddenly had an issue with some of my posts out of nowhere. I know you try to avoid confirmation bias from your reads, but if you had previously townread me I just don't understand how you found anything wrong with those posts.

My initial town read was driven by the highly specific bit from your earliest post(s) about nova and mindmelding. It was meaningful on Day 0, but the dynamic is ever-adapting. As my own Dragomir read shifts to civilian I then have cause to look for opportunists trying to bury him. You seem like a viable candidate.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I'm eager to know what [mention]Turnip Head[/mention] thinks of Rej's most recent stuff.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I'll support a Dragomir vote. I was too annoyed earlier to talk about it, but now I am more chill...just to any case made against my Day 0 posts.

I just felt like doing that.

Ok how about talking about why you felt that way?

>Trying to go with the grain
>Hiding behind off-radar and focusing his attacks on an already suspected target. Similar to the first point.

LC = bad for me. It's only one post. A bit too early to tell if this is the direction that LC is going for the day with. Because of those 2 things, I'm not married to this read, but this is how I feel right now.

My post was an entirely facetious post, following JJJ's demanding line of questioning. Dragomir sees it as an "attack" on him, the "target".

I don't care for this either. Dragomir interpreted a facetious post as not being facetious. Long Con jumps right onto the wagon on that basis. There's not enough deliberation or communication here for my liking. It's just immediate judgment and essentially nothing thereafter.

[nutella]

I was just surprised that you suddenly had an issue with some of my posts out of nowhere. I know you try to avoid confirmation bias from your reads, but if you had previously townread me I just don't understand how you found anything wrong with those posts.

My initial town read was driven by the highly specific bit from your earliest post(s) about nova and mindmelding. It was meaningful on Day 0, but the dynamic is ever-adapting. As my own Dragomir read shifts to civilian I then have cause to look for opportunists trying to bury him. You seem like a viable candidate.

That's a load of hot garbo. I pushed on him a fair amount, but never even voted and I backed off on my own volition when he started to look genuine. I ain't trying to bury shit.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I was just surprised that you suddenly had an issue with some of my posts out of nowhere. I know you try to avoid confirmation bias from your reads, but if you had previously townread me I just don't understand how you found anything wrong with those posts.

My initial town read was driven by the highly specific bit from your earliest post(s) about nova and mindmelding. It was meaningful on Day 0, but the dynamic is ever-adapting. As my own Dragomir read shifts to civilian I then have cause to look for opportunists trying to bury him. You seem like a viable candidate.

That's a load of hot garbo. I pushed on him a fair amount, but never even voted and I backed off on my own volition when he started to look genuine. I ain't trying to bury shit.

The lack of a vote is a separate but related concern. Whatchoo waiting for?

[MacDougall]

Nut is town

[nutella]

I was just surprised that you suddenly had an issue with some of my posts out of nowhere. I know you try to avoid confirmation bias from your reads, but if you had previously townread me I just don't understand how you found anything wrong with those posts.

My initial town read was driven by the highly specific bit from your earliest post(s) about nova and mindmelding. It was meaningful on Day 0, but the dynamic is ever-adapting. As my own Dragomir read shifts to civilian I then have cause to look for opportunists trying to bury him. You seem like a viable candidate.

That's a load of hot garbo. I pushed on him a fair amount, but never even voted and I backed off on my own volition when he started to look genuine. I ain't trying to bury shit.

The lack of a vote is a separate but related concern. Whatchoo waiting for?

I'll vote when I damn well feel like it

[JaggedJimmyJay]

[VOTE: sprityo] aubergine, it's time for your Day 1 vote. I don't expect you to do a lot, but I expect more than nothing.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Nut is town

y

[Dragomir]

Hmm, would scum Nutella stop pushing me or continue pressing the very likely lynch? I'm inclined to believe the latter. So right now, Nutella is in good looks.

Rej is the leading wagon, not you.

Oh right. Gonna have to rethink this then. @Nutella do you suspect Rej?

[Turnip Head]

I'm eager to know what @Turnip Head thinks of Rej's most recent stuff.

It didn't make me suspect them less or more. I don't feel very strongly about my vote

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Hmm, would scum Nutella stop pushing me or continue pressing the very likely lynch? I'm inclined to believe the latter. So right now, Nutella is in good looks.

Rej is the leading wagon, not you.

Oh right. Gonna have to rethink this then. @Nutella do you suspect Rej?

[mention]nutella[/mention] fixing the mention

[Dragomir]

I'll support a Dragomir vote. I was too annoyed earlier to talk about it, but now I am more chill...just to any case made against my Day 0 posts.

I just felt like doing that.

Ok how about talking about why you felt that way?

>Trying to go with the grain
>Hiding behind off-radar and focusing his attacks on an already suspected target. Similar to the first point.

LC = bad for me. It's only one post. A bit too early to tell if this is the direction that LC is going for the day with. Because of those 2 things, I'm not married to this read, but this is how I feel right now.

My post was an entirely facetious post, following JJJ's demanding line of questioning. Dragomir sees it as an "attack" on him, the "target".

I don't care for this either. Dragomir interpreted a facetious post as not being facetious. Long Con jumps right onto the wagon on that basis. There's not enough deliberation or communication here for my liking. It's just immediate judgment and essentially nothing thereafter.

Yes, this is that extra reason that wasn't info I was talking about. Jay hit it right on the money. Shit. Too many mindmelds with this man to think of him as scum.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Rej voiced suspicion of Dragomir, so the mutual defense thing no longer applies. It also makes me like the current non-vote less.

[nutella]

Hmm, would scum Nutella stop pushing me or continue pressing the very likely lynch? I'm inclined to believe the latter. So right now, Nutella is in good looks.

Rej is the leading wagon, not you.

Oh right. Gonna have to rethink this then. @Nutella do you suspect Rej?

Yeah, I guess I do. I've waffled a bit and don't feel amazingly strongly about it, but I like the connection that Mac drew between him and Fayt.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Fayt is mildly suspicious. I'd prefer to offer the Day 1 pass to the newcomer here.

[Michelle]

I don't get the scumreads on Dragomir. Sounds a bit forced by JJJ and novas, also it was quite a speedy jump.

Mac is looking OK

There was a thing with Sprityo and Michelle that bothered me. They just quoted each other and then dropped the D0 fluffing. It gave me a "picky" vibe.
I really wait for @sprityo and @Michelle post to deduct further about their alignment in the game.

Again about the above tizzy I feel like JJJ is town. It fits with his previous townplay of engagin agressively to collect as much data as possible from something, I like it and I wanna see more of it through the course of the game!

I am too tired to read a wolf in Drago or novas, in best case I want them to be town with us.

I will go sleep now, I hope I won't have to catch up that much pages when I am at work after I woke up.

Sorry about inactivity i was coming back from vacation and had a hard day. Going to catch up asap and @ you with reads.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Sorry about inactivity i was coming back from vacation and had a hard day. Going to catch up asap and @ you with reads.

I know I'm excited.

[Michelle]

Can someone tell me what's up before i start reading? Is close to my sleep hour and i would prefere direct interaction.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Can someone tell me what's up before i start reading? Is close to my sleep hour and i would prefere direct interaction.

Dragomir and Rej are currently the lead wagons, as you can see. You could start by assessing each of them.

Dragomir
Rej

Decide how you feel. If you'd prefer to vote neither, indicate someone you suspect in their stead.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I have far too little knowledge of where [mention]speedchuck[/mention] stands on most players.

[Fayt]

@Fayt Spew is when scum inadvertently outs someone as town. Mac used it to say that since he thinks you're bad, the perspective in your post implied that neither drago nor jay could be teammates with you.

Ah ok. As stated before, I was thinking of possibilities in the event Dragomir flips scum and then in another event that I might be wrong entirely. I can see why that paints a picture but the topic was concerning Dragomir and the discussion around Dragomir so it's what I was thinking about at the time.

I'll support a Dragomir vote. I was too annoyed earlier to talk about it, but now I am more chill...just to any case made against my Day 0 posts.

I just felt like doing that.

Ok how about talking about why you felt that way?

>Trying to go with the grain
>Hiding behind off-radar and focusing his attacks on an already suspected target. Similar to the first point.

LC = bad for me. It's only one post. A bit too early to tell if this is the direction that LC is going for the day with. Because of those 2 things, I'm not married to this read, but this is how I feel right now.

My post was an entirely facetious post, following JJJ's demanding line of questioning. Dragomir sees it as an "attack" on him, the "target".

I don't care for this either. Dragomir interpreted a facetious post as not being facetious. Long Con jumps right onto the wagon on that basis. There's not enough deliberation or communication here for my liking. It's just immediate judgment and essentially nothing thereafter.

Yes, this is that extra reason that wasn't info I was talking about. Jay hit it right on the money. Shit. Too many mindmelds with this man to think of him as scum.

Hmm. I didn't catch that. It was only Dragomir who made a case against LC and the response was a bit jumpy. I thought nothing of the first post but the response afterwards is something looking into. I'm not too sold on placing my vote on LC though.

(Apologies if I ask a lot of questions, DDL said I can ask in here as well. Mindmelds? Is that something like people agree with? Couldn't find a definition when I looked it up).

[JaggedJimmyJay]

(Apologies if I ask a lot of questions, DDL said I can ask in here as well. Mindmelds? Is that something like people agree with? Couldn't find a definition when I looked it up).

Always feel free to ask questions!

A "mindmeld" refers to two players who completely agree on something, or arrived at a conclusion the same way.

[nutella]

Oh yeah, Speed and LC exist. Let's move off these stale wagons and lynch one of them instead.

I'm inclined to sheep Epi re: speed, and I haven't seen anything that made me feel anything positive about him.

[VOTE: speedchuck] aubergine

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Low-key wanna scum read Jay for being tryhard just cause it'd be funny.

That's a turnaround.

Acting like Dragomir's joke is an actual read that he reversed.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

k sure

[VOTE: speedchuck] aubergine

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Guess I'll make me a bonafide case, reckon?

[nutella]

Nah let's just wing it I feel good

[nutella]

Lol I said at some point that speed was fine and looking at his iso now i cannot fathom why I had that thought

[nutella]

His stance(s) on drago look way more fake than mine ever could tbqh

[Michelle]

i don't see Drago's wagon okay. But i didn't read from day one more than these posts so i will come back at these ideas later

Spoiler: show

I like this. People scum reading me. More of what I'm used to.

Usually scum are not glad to be scum readed

Spoiler: show

nutella
novaselinenever

Epignosis
Long Con
Rej
speedchuck
MacDougall

Fayt
Michelle
sprityo
TonyStarkprime
Turnip Head

Dragomir

This is also asinine.

Not accepting that coloured reads list is not looking bad per se.

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 97#p554697

here he is very self conscious. But would he say it as wolf?

I'm voting for Dragomir. I'm probably wrong. I don't care. I do stupid things. Like chase cars.

This really pisses me off. Epi is bad.

Quoted this for Epi's post. When on this game of mafia town says he don't care about the AI of the voted?

@Rej, why is Dragomir a civilian?

@Dragomir, why is Rej a civilian?

I don't know how to articulate it my thought on him.

I think scum would find a reason to town read someone. I never saw Drago scum. He posts in this game more than usual but idk if it's AI.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Spoiler: show

Jay is town. Don't try lynch him.

Tell me more Dragomir. Tell me more.

Ew.

How dare you say “ew” to me.

Really tho what

Ooh yeah baby, call me town some more, that's the stuff

That’s one interpretation!

The translation I was going for is “why”.

My interpretation is funnier.

No serious problem with you asking why though.

speedchuck gave me this "ew" in response to my prod of Dragomir. As soon as I provided the most obvious translation available ("why"), speedchuck bailed on the ew entirely. Rather hard to buy that progression.

Spoiler: show

Low-key wanna scum read Jay for being tryhard just cause it'd be funny.

That's a turnaround.

Just mentioned this. Meh.

Spoiler: show

I read further and whoa Drago is SDing and it's only D0

"whoa"

"self-destructing"

Nah

Spoiler: show

Oh wait it's D1.

Drago's obstinate refusal to explain his reads is baffling. For those who've seen normal scum drago, is he always really, really obvscum or is he just lolcatting right now?

linki: self-destructing and oh hey there's a post

Orange: sure it's goofy, but speedchuck knows well that goofy and evil are not equivalent.

Red: this just looks fake to me at face value. Even if Dragomir is mafia, it's not "obvscum", and "lolcatting" would be essentially the same thing anyway. "Is Dragomir always mafia, or is he just mafia?"

Spoiler: show

Agreed with concern about Rej take. Potential TMI on Dragomir.

Why? What about it strikes as TMI?

I'll answer for him. Firstly, you have been actually pretty scummy. So for Rej to defend you is TMI. Rej has no reason to feel like you have been civvy enough to question the people casing him.

Rej is taking the opportunity to gain your trust by dismissing the case as incredulous, which is invariably how you would feel as a civ. In the event of a civilian flip of you he is distanced from the case making of a bad lynch, which is where people first look for wolves (even though it's usually never that simple).

Now, onto Fayt, who we have common ground on.

This post smells like a litter box. Paints quite a big picture of events. "Actually pretty scummy"? Mac is purring like a devil

IDK Mac always comes off overtly scummy to me.

I like you tho dawg

Non-read on Mac with a built-in suspicion-by-default clause -- not an ideal response to Turnip Head saying why Mac is a cat.

Spoiler: show

Can drago and Rej both be bad?

Epi observed that speedchuck hadn't voted yet at this point. This then contributes to the negative environment for both players without meaningfully investigating their alignments. It's a question directed at everyone and by extension at nobody.

Spoiler: show

He's banking all of his analysis on the one Persona game, which is fallacious as heck. "JJJ isn't doing things exactly like he did in P5" is not a case, it's a justification.

I agree that it's fallacious, though that's something I am thinking about. Rej has only played one game with me, and it was that one. So it makes some sense that he'd be inclined to assess me on that basis.

I saw that he'd played a couple other games, but didn't notice specifically that.

Small point in his favor. Someone approaching a game in a different way doesn't mean much unless there's a scum motive for the new approach, but Rej might not read that way

"small point in his favor" is meh. chuck's vote is still there with so sign of moving.

[speedchuck]

I have far too little knowledge of where @speedchuck stands on most players.

Same here buddy

[Michelle]

Can someone tell me what's up before i start reading? Is close to my sleep hour and i would prefere direct interaction.

Dragomir and Rej are currently the lead wagons, as you can see. You could start by assessing each of them.

Dragomir
Rej

Decide how you feel. If you'd prefer to vote neither, indicate someone you suspect in their stead.

Also about Rej, he pinged me to see me posting. This is not a scum behaviour and that post, the first i've read, sounded okay. Not a Rej scum read yet either. Ftr anytime i was villager i could read him and he knows it. Scum Rej would not @ me.

[Rej]

First:

The @Dragomir case

Dragomir imho really plays off, I agree once to novas point that Dragomir is basically powering through. Drago comes off a bit offminded (if that's a word). I used so many off's sometimes I could think of an "uff". Drago only dared to counterpush JJJ and even when I placed a vote on JJJ Drago did not try to safe his ass. Some points that make it hard for me to read Drago, and if he is town he often gets himself read easily. That's also why Dragomir sometimes is a good N1 kill if there is no protection around him.

All in all Dragomir feels like he is hiding something, could also be anything tbh. He is unclear to me and indeed partially scummy for my taste.

@JaggedJimmyJay
this is my first answer to you and bringing forward my concern about Dragomir to Dragomir, so he can imply these points in his defense.

I also don't know anything about Long Con in this case. Dragomir likes to attack randomly.

About you, I was a bit harsh on you and since I don't know your scumplay I am cautious about everything, but I think we are fine if we decide to move on and expand our reads at that point.


about Mac, I must honestly say he started off as civillian and keeps it. He has a strong opinion and underlines it, even if shortly and he makes it hard to read him deeper, but only on a superficial point of view. He is buddying Fayt against Dragomir and me.

I thought Fayt was part of the recent MU wave but they're not lol

Sup Starlight

We already have something of substance to talk about, people. If you haven't already piped in, I want to know what y'all think of Dragomir or anything related to the conversation surrounding Dragomir.

So for the dragomir thing, I might be late on this because I haven't had a chance to reply until now. There are things I'm unsure of and this is off of first impressions but I do lean scum on him. As reasons stated above but also because of Dragomir not wanting to do first impressions but then jump onto another target (i.e. LC) so he must think of something about LC that strikes him as odd or did he just drop the LC name to get people off of his back.

Secondly, I don't think Dragomir and JJJ are bussing each other. If they are then I'm definitely fooled. If Dragomir turns out to be scum, I find Jay as town and vice versa. However, there is a chance they could both be town but I don't think both would be scum.

Fake. Super fake. Fayt is bad.

"I do lean scum on him". She is emphasising "I do" as opposed to just "I lean". She is responding someone who does not. There is only one person who has actively said that they do not and that is Rej. This is consequentially distancing of Rej.

The second paragraph spews both Jay and Drago as town.

This for example is literal stuff, like almost philosophy about grammar and it's true meaning behind it. I mean wtf at this point. Maybe I am to noobish for this shit, but I clearly didn't distance myself. I rather tried to engage and find something out for myself.
Like right now. You dissect Fayts wording, at this point it wasn't really needed but you used it to push Dragomir.

Okay either Drago is scum and you did a lucky push against Dragomir, coordinated with @Fayt. Or you are scum that really searched for an asspull to push Dragomir and help building a wagon on him.

I don't know what to think because of your generall strong towny appeareance...but I feel there was something off in your play or just very well coordinated.

I think more ISO on Mac is not needed. I wanna look into Dom vs Drago but first I will play Overwatch with a friend. So I will still track you guys until EoD.

Dude literally what on earth are you talking about

You clearly did not read the same post I did lol. Mac is suspecting Fayt and implying that drago must be town bc fayt "spewed" him. I have no idea how you are getting this opposite interpretation.

OOOOOOOOOOOH, I didn't knew what "spew" means until I read your explanations below. Omg thanks, now I can read the situation better.
This is my bad and a new interaction I should consider.

As for nutella I don't find any scum tells or scummy approaches by her towards some other player.
Now I think Mac and Fayt are getting more interesting for me.

I can't get more reads at this point as I rely on Sprityo and Michelles reads.

I will look at Long Con and then I looked at everyone.

No need for Dom ISO, that guy looks pretty townish since he became active in the Drago suspicion train.
But I ask myself if [mention]Dom[/mention] has some other reads, like some read on Mac (bringing back Mac because I think Dom was asked about Mac before and he had no read about him back then).

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Can someone tell me what's up before i start reading? Is close to my sleep hour and i would prefere direct interaction.

Dragomir and Rej are currently the lead wagons, as you can see. You could start by assessing each of them.

Dragomir
Rej

Decide how you feel. If you'd prefer to vote neither, indicate someone you suspect in their stead.

Also about Rej, he pinged me to see me posting. This is not a scum behaviour and that post, the first i've read, sounded okay. Not a Rej scum read yet either. Ftr anytime i was villager i could read him and he knows it. Scum Rej would not @ me.

Thanks for your input Michelle. At the very least, I think you sound authentic in your report.

Your task would seem to be finding a suspect you like better then.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Those who haven't already provided a read on speedchuck are now required by law to do so.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Deadline in 71 minutes. Let's go.

[Rej]

I am torn between a pressure vote on Michelle/Sprityo and solidifying the lynch on Drago. But if I won't like the flip I will pretty much feel bad.
Another option is voting [mention]Turnip Head[/mention] because I feel they haven't given enough reads this DP to read them back properly.
Turnip do you have some input on others? Votes have been moved to Speedchuck for example. I didn't like how he voted me so I question [mention]speedchuck[/mention] if his vote on me is locked?


okay addition after Michelles read on me:
[mention]Michelle[/mention] I would always @ you, sadly we haven't played much games fully together, I often leave in the early stages. xD
I need more reads from you tho, and I sadly know nothing about your scumplay I feel.

[speedchuck]

Spoiler: show

Tell me more Dragomir. Tell me more.

Ew.

How dare you say “ew” to me.

Really tho what

Ooh yeah baby, call me town some more, that's the stuff

That’s one interpretation!

The translation I was going for is “why”.

My interpretation is funnier.

No serious problem with you asking why though.

speedchuck gave me this "ew" in response to my prod of Dragomir. As soon as I provided the most obvious translation available ("why"), speedchuck bailed on the ew entirely. Rather hard to buy that progression.

Spoiler: show

Low-key wanna scum read Jay for being tryhard just cause it'd be funny.

That's a turnaround.

Just mentioned this. Meh.

"Hard to buy speedchuck's progression in this obvious joke."
"How dare speed not buy Dragomir's progression in this obvious joke."

Spoiler: show

I read further and whoa Drago is SDing and it's only D0

"whoa"

"self-destructing"

Nah

Spoiler: show

Oh wait it's D1.

Drago's obstinate refusal to explain his reads is baffling. For those who've seen normal scum drago, is he always really, really obvscum or is he just lolcatting right now?

linki: self-destructing and oh hey there's a post

Orange: sure it's goofy, but speedchuck knows well that goofy and evil are not equivalent.

Red: this just looks fake to me at face value. Even if Dragomir is mafia, it's not "obvscum", and "lolcatting" would be essentially the same thing anyway. "Is Dragomir always mafia, or is he just mafia?"

Okay, that's on me for using a term wrong. Can town not lolcat? (I thought the pun would work given the setup flavor)

Spoiler: show

Agreed with concern about Rej take. Potential TMI on Dragomir.

Why? What about it strikes as TMI?

I'll answer for him. Firstly, you have been actually pretty scummy. So for Rej to defend you is TMI. Rej has no reason to feel like you have been civvy enough to question the people casing him.

Rej is taking the opportunity to gain your trust by dismissing the case as incredulous, which is invariably how you would feel as a civ. In the event of a civilian flip of you he is distanced from the case making of a bad lynch, which is where people first look for wolves (even though it's usually never that simple).

Now, onto Fayt, who we have common ground on.

This post smells like a litter box. Paints quite a big picture of events. "Actually pretty scummy"? Mac is purring like a devil

IDK Mac always comes off overtly scummy to me.

I like you tho dawg

Non-read on Mac with a built-in suspicion-by-default clause -- not an ideal response to Turnip Head saying why Mac is a cat.

Mac seems town to me today. He just comes off scummy because of his sparkling personality.

Spoiler: show

Can drago and Rej both be bad?

Epi observed that speedchuck hadn't voted yet at this point. This then contributes to the negative environment for both players without meaningfully investigating their alignments. It's a question directed at everyone and by extension at nobody.

Directed more at the people with suspicions of both players.

Spoiler: show

He's banking all of his analysis on the one Persona game, which is fallacious as heck. "JJJ isn't doing things exactly like he did in P5" is not a case, it's a justification.

I agree that it's fallacious, though that's something I am thinking about. Rej has only played one game with me, and it was that one. So it makes some sense that he'd be inclined to assess me on that basis.

I saw that he'd played a couple other games, but didn't notice specifically that.

Small point in his favor. Someone approaching a game in a different way doesn't mean much unless there's a scum motive for the new approach, but Rej might not read that way

"small point in his favor" is meh. chuck's vote is still there with so sign of moving.

Yes. I was mitigating your comment because I don't think it excuses the behavior. Meta reads are trash. And Rej just popped an 'interesting' tell a few posts ago, so that's juici. Where should I be moving?