Dogs vs. Cats [END]

[nutella]

Facts:

JJJ gave Rej a bunch of shit. Did not vote there.
JJJ voted LC, whom he called good that same Day.

What else am I supposed to do with this?

You have at least got me thinking about this possibility, so that's cool. I just keep coming back to "nah, jay's fine"

[Fayt]

reading two people who I town read fight each other is like mom and dad arguing who's fault is it when the dog shits on the carpet.

[nutella]

Facts:

JJJ gave Rej a bunch of shit. Did not vote there.
JJJ voted LC, whom he called good that same Day.

What else am I supposed to do with this?

So you are suspicious of Jay because he is wrong?

Firstly, what if LC is also a cat?

But I'll unpack this for a second. In this scenario you propose Jay to be Rej's teammate and unwilling to bus him. Would it not stand to reason that if he was unwilling to bus him that he would be willing to defend him? Did he defend him? If you can show me evidence of Jay trying to manipulate others into rescinding their read on Rej I'll listen more.

Personally I think the chances are rather high that we had two cat wagons up on day 1.

I dig this, I'm also still sort of on the LC/rej both cats train. So what do you think is the likelihood of Jay being their teammate in this scenario vs a civilian?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

reading two people who I town read fight each other is like mom and dad arguing who's fault is it when the dog shits on the carpet.

If Mac and I had a child, protective services would have taken them away from us long ago.

[Long Con]

I'll see what Long Con has to say for himself.

I am a dog. What more is there?

I didn't "give up" the last time. I was caught. Doing anything else would have wasted everyone's time. I do not believe in wasting people's time.

If you want something to chew on, how about this: I would not condone the killing of Turnip Head Night 1. I don't kill the ones I've missed so soon.

Me too. And nutella. And Dom.

Now here is why I find LC to be bad. First is this post right here. http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 38#p555038. This right here is a clear cut soft defense that LC tried to create. He tries using the opinion of Michelle to support Rej when Jay voted for him. I find such an attempt very weak based on the fact that Michelle's town read on Rej shouldn't matter to how he reads or Jay reads Rej. Since when do players just town read someone cause somebody else did? It's not like Michelle had info on Rej. It's an incredible wink link and really has no purpose behind it besides supporting/saving Rej. He tried and failed. Because he failed, he moves on to vote for Rej. I find this to be a distancing attempt. Rej is most likely to be lynched so drop the vote and look better for it. The vote is out of nowhere when LC had made no mention of any remote suspicion of Rej. Nothing at all. Hell, it's more likely that he town read Rej based on the post I linked here.

Now moving on to Rej's posts. http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 99#p554999. Here, he brings up LC for the first time. There's a rushed tone to it. Like Rej just realized that he should mention his buddy in a bad light of sorts and try to create some distancing. It's what he did, whether or not it was distancing or just fake reads is up to you. Next, he votes for LC. Rej didn't want to save himself, he could have done that a long time ago by hopping on my wagon. No, he took the prime opportunity to distance. That's really all I can see from his vote on LC. Just how I feel about it.

Enh, I was just conversing using what I had in my mind. I thought Michelle's meta read on Rej sounded believable... there were pages that I caught up on in skimmish mode, and I wanted to make conversation with something current/relevant. It was quite the wink link though.

Epi's post about JJJ is how I feel. That whole schmeck at the end of Day 1 is mondo garbo as they say.

Epignosis is probably a dog. I am juggling around thoughts to the contrary in my brain, and the one that I find recurring is "Epi is cranky about last game and wants to mislynch me this time", which is

Dragomir has my vote currently.

Got a twinge of suspicion on Epi here for this... he's been going hard against JJJ for pages, and then goes for Dragomir (who I know he also expressed suspicion for). Feels a bit like "How To Act Civ: Don't tunnel! Keep an open mind and multiple suspicions going". Not enough to flip my axis on the Epi-or-JJJ front, if such a thing exists. And I know no one wants to turn Day 2 into one of those situations, but I say what I say.

Where's Long Con?

Trying to catch up and also watch El Camino. This has been a lot of posts, you prolific fuckers.

I actually thought Long Con was being at least a little facetious there.

@Long Con have a go.

Yes, that sounds accurate. Also, the stuff I said earlier in this post, something about going with what I had in mind, trying to be a little bit relevant with an opinion I had formed through a skim-read.

Good lord this thread exploded

I know right?

I'll [VOTE: JJJ] aubergine

[nutella]

Facts:

JJJ gave Rej a bunch of shit. Did not vote there.
JJJ voted LC, whom he called good that same Day.

What else am I supposed to do with this?

Well this is bullshit. How about think critically? Consider more than one possibility? What the hell is this question?

.....

...





Man I leave the thread for a few hours and everyone's taken crazy pills I don't know what to think anymore

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I think Epi's flip is fine. The Turnip Head kill is probably key there. If you think I did that, whatever. I wouldn't (hi Mac). Epi considered this after I said it, which I think is to his credit. He didn't have to believe that and could have just kept kicking me in the nuts.

[nutella]

Agreed with concern about Rej take. Potential TMI on Dragomir.

Why? What about it strikes as TMI?

I'll answer for him. Firstly, you have been actually pretty scummy. So for Rej to defend you is TMI. Rej has no reason to feel like you have been civvy enough to question the people casing him.

Rej is taking the opportunity to gain your trust by dismissing the case as incredulous, which is invariably how you would feel as a civ. In the event of a civilian flip of you he is distanced from the case making of a bad lynch, which is where people first look for wolves (even though it's usually never that simple).

Now, onto Fayt, who we have common ground on.

This post smells like a litter box. Paints quite a big picture of events. "Actually pretty scummy"? Mac is purring like a devil

Just looking at TH's posts and this one stands out. If I wasn't me I'd be pretty convinced that I killed him for this.

But given I am in fact a dog ... perhaps this kill was made in the hopes of somebody breadcrumbing that.

Turnip Head had a pretty strong town read on Dragomir. I am want to think that a wolf team that has Dragomir in it that just lost a member would not kill someone who had an incorrect scum read on me and was town reading Dragomir.

I also think that TH wasn't proving to be much of a threat. I don't see how a scum team that has players unfamiliar with him would choose him as a kill.

It just seems like a pure POE shot given how good TH looked in light of the Rej flip.

I kinda found it strange how Jay decided to leak that he had an interaction analysis with Rej/TH. Almost seems like Jay was trying to make us think he didn't know TH was gonna get the bullet. @JaggedJimmyJay why did you post the TH/Rej interaction analysis?

this is a good point tbh

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Man I leave the thread for a few hours and everyone's taken crazy pills I don't know what to think anymore

You're gonna hate what comes next!

[nutella]

@Epignosis I think that Jay is just about the only person who WOULD kill TH in that slot based on how TH was playing. I think you may be right about him after all.

I don't kill Turnip Head in his first game back here in 900 years either. Believe me or don't, I don't care. My first priority is always the website, and Turnip Head is a major part of it.

This is a blatant lie.

[VOTE: jay] aubergine

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I think Long Con is fine.

[nutella]

@Epignosis I think that Jay is just about the only person who WOULD kill TH in that slot based on how TH was playing. I think you may be right about him after all.

I don't kill Turnip Head in his first game back here in 900 years either. Believe me or don't, I don't care. My first priority is always the website, and Turnip Head is a major part of it.

I'm glad to hear you say that. I believe that.

Sucker.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

@Epignosis I think that Jay is just about the only person who WOULD kill TH in that slot based on how TH was playing. I think you may be right about him after all.

I don't kill Turnip Head in his first game back here in 900 years either. Believe me or don't, I don't care. My first priority is always the website, and Turnip Head is a major part of it.

This is a blatant lie.

[VOTE: jay] aubergine

As long as y'all who think I am the Grinch Who Stole Christmas adapt your perspectives after the game and understand that I am not actually an emotionless robot who cares for nothing but sweet victory. That's all JJJ asks.

It's the truth.

[Long Con]

I think Long Con is fine.

Yes.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Mac is more doggo than nutella. She's getting the sloppy seconds on this TH junk.

[Long Con]

Sorry, JJJ, you don't fit the criteria of "who wouldn't kill TH" in my books. The people I mentioned, TH is an old friend, a highly valued player for both nostalgic and personal reasons. You just don't have the past with him to qualify.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I think Long Con is fine.

Yes.

I'd appreciate it if you could take a quick look at my Michelle and sprityo reviews at the very start of this day phase. Rej treated them uniquely, and I want some input.

[Long Con]

EBWOP "To" the people I mentioned...

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Sorry, JJJ, you don't fit the criteria of "who wouldn't kill TH" in my books. The people I mentioned, TH is an old friend, a highly valued player for both nostalgic and personal reasons. You just don't have the past with him to qualify.

That's fine. I readily grant that I don't have the closeness that you and others would have with good old Turnip Head. My concern is more with respect to the role he has played for the site, and the impact his return can have upon us in general.

[nutella]

bleh [VOTE: Rej] aubergine

But Michelle says Rej is Civ.

I am going to veto a Long Con lynch.

This post here is not Rej's teammate.

What are you talking about, that is literally him using a third party to try to hard defend Rej? That's like the most teammate indicative shit ever lol.

Lol yeah I'm with mac on this one. Don't see how you could use that to clear LC in the slightest.

[Long Con]

I think Long Con is fine.

Yes.

I'd appreciate it if you could take a quick look at my Michelle and sprityo reviews at the very start of this day phase. Rej treated them uniquely, and I want some input.

I can do that if I get up tomorrow and the thread isn't filled with new stuff I am compelled to interact with as a higher priority. Right now it's too bedtime for me to do that.

[nutella]

GTH nut is civ. Her reaction EoD feels genuine and how she was flip flopping. Feel like she came in late without any prep and everything caught her by surprise. There was that post where she reacts to someone else's take on the Rej's/LC thing and switches from Rej to LC.

Does someone more detail oriented than I have a tally of the votes when the nut switched her vote?

I think I made it LC 4 - 6 Rej? Not sure

[nutella]

GTH nut is civ. Her reaction EoD feels genuine and how she was flip flopping. Feel like she came in late without any prep and everything caught her by surprise. There was that post where she reacts to someone else's take on the Rej's/LC thing and switches from Rej to LC.

Does someone more detail oriented than I have a tally of the votes when the nut switched her vote?

It was around 5 (Rej) - 3 (LC), made it 6-3 by voting Rej then 5-4 when she switched to LC.

Or that. That sounds about right?

[Long Con]

bleh [VOTE: Rej] aubergine

But Michelle says Rej is Civ.

I am going to veto a Long Con lynch.

This post here is not Rej's teammate.

What are you talking about, that is literally him using a third party to try to hard defend Rej? That's like the most teammate indicative shit ever lol.

Lol yeah I'm with mac on this one. Don't see how you could use that to clear LC in the slightest.

Probably right, though I liked Epi's opinion there anyway. There could be aspects of Epi being bad, and knowing how terribly inclined I usually am to suspect him, so a scrap of buddying is thrown my way to placate me. I can only imagine how much of a landmine I must be to him when he's bad, even though I don't usually get a big following when I go after him.

As for my comment there... I dunno, if I were bad, maybe I'd try to phrase that with a bit more oomph? Like, take Michelle's point and expand on it, or try to prove it's valid? Like JJJ said, it had a strong facetious element... which is something that bolsters my suspicion of him, in a TMI kind of way.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I take pride in my ability to extract abstraction from text. I once proposed, facetiously, a job in which I am responsible for mediating between messengers in dating sites/apps to help people avoid silly misinterpretation and miss obvious cues. I wonder why I never got that job.

[Long Con]

I take pride in my ability to extract abstraction from text. I once proposed, facetiously, a job in which I am responsible for mediating between messengers in dating sites/apps to help people avoid silly misinterpretation and miss obvious cues. I wonder why I never got that job.

I'd hire you.

[nutella]

Just btw I 100% believe Jay would absolutely kill TH if he thought it was the right move, "site health" be damned. I have wolfed with Jay and cannot in a million years imagine him saying "let's not kill TH because he's only just came back" if TH was empirically the best kill to be made. He'd be like "exterminate the prick and even better because I can say that I'd never do it and dumb shits would believe me muahahaha". Jay is absolutely cold and pragmatic as scum and him even trying that on as defence is scummy as shit.

@nutella you have scummed with Jay, what do you think?

100% agree as you may have surmised from another post I just made lol

[JaggedJimmyJay]

My reads are pretty in flux at this point. I feel quite good about Epignosis, Dom, Long Con, and TSP. I think Mac and nova generally look fine. I think Dragomir looks good, but he also feels like a potential blind spot. I think Fayt looks bad, but she also feels like a potential blind spot. Michelle, nutella, and speedchuck are swing reads. sprityo is nothing and thus bad.

If I were to draw up a POE of 4 (I think we're allowed more at this stage) right this moment, it'd be the last four names there.

[Long Con]

My reads are pretty in flux at this point. I feel quite good about Epignosis, Dom, Long Con, and TSP. I think Mac and nova generally look fine. I think Dragomir looks good, but he also feels like a potential blind spot. I think Fayt looks bad, but she also feels like a potential blind spot. Michelle, nutella, and speedchuck are swing reads. sprityo is nothing and thus bad.

If I were to draw up a POE of 4 (I think we're allowed more at this stage) right this moment, it'd be the last four names there.

Dragomir is the proverbial fourth name in this extended player salad. JJJ and Dragomir are my top suspects. Good night.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

My reads are pretty in flux at this point. I feel quite good about Epignosis, Dom, Long Con, and TSP. I think Mac and nova generally look fine. I think Dragomir looks good, but he also feels like a potential blind spot. I think Fayt looks bad, but she also feels like a potential blind spot. Michelle, nutella, and speedchuck are swing reads. sprityo is nothing and thus bad.

If I were to draw up a POE of 4 (I think we're allowed more at this stage) right this moment, it'd be the last four names there.

Dragomir is the proverbial fourth name in this extended player salad. JJJ and Dragomir are my top suspects. Good night.

I knew someone would say it's salad.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Assuming one kill per night, we've four mislynches available before LyLo. Doctoring and vigilante justice may influence that, but whatever. Adapt as necessary moving forward.

Two mafia alive + four mislynches = POE of 6.

Dragomir
Fayt
Michelle
nutella
speedchuck
sprityo

[nutella]

Dragomir could kill him.

I repeat, Turnip Head town read Dragomir. If Dragomir just lost a teammate Rej, why would he kill an ally? Not to mention Rej probably spewed him town in the "I don't get the case" post. Which also spews me town tbh. I'm clearing Dragomir off all of that straight up.

Nutella would 100% kill him. She fell victim to Turnip Head's skill in a big way in Firefly. Long Con probably just wants you, me or Epi dead most of the time. Especially you if he is scum and you are town, after that EOD. I don't think newcomers come to the decision to kill TH without help from at least someone who knows him well enough to talk about what a threat he is.

Why are you ruling out TSP?

I like to think I wouldn't. I teared up when I saw TH had showed up on the forum in my walrus thread after a long absence. I love the fucker. I can't for sure imagine what scum!me would decide in that situation, but personally I want TH around.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I teared up when I saw TH had showed up on the forum in my walrus thread after a long absence.

Y'all think whatever of me regarding TH. It's fine. I was so glad to see him back, not only for Walrus, but actually signing up for a game after a long break when we've been in such a lull. It enriches the site. And he was originally my admin mate! I've had a special place for TH since watching him play in the MU tournament the same year I did right as I joined the site here and became a part of the community.

Stick around [mention]Turnip Head[/mention], at least if you desire to. It's great to have you back.

[MacDougall]

Facts:

JJJ gave Rej a bunch of shit. Did not vote there.
JJJ voted LC, whom he called good that same Day.

What else am I supposed to do with this?

So you are suspicious of Jay because he is wrong?

Firstly, what if LC is also a cat?

But I'll unpack this for a second. In this scenario you propose Jay to be Rej's teammate and unwilling to bus him. Would it not stand to reason that if he was unwilling to bus him that he would be willing to defend him? Did he defend him? If you can show me evidence of Jay trying to manipulate others into rescinding their read on Rej I'll listen more.

Personally I think the chances are rather high that we had two cat wagons up on day 1.

I dig this, I'm also still sort of on the LC/rej both cats train. So what do you think is the likelihood of Jay being their teammate in this scenario vs a civilian?

High

[JaggedJimmyJay]

You sillies. If Rej and LC are my teammates, I lynch Dragomir back to Timbuktu.

[nutella]

You sillies. If Rej and LC are my teammates, I lynch Dragomir back to Timbuktu.

No.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

You sillies. If Rej and LC are my teammates, I lynch Dragomir back to Timbuktu.

No.

I'm glad we could have this little talk.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Mac's suspicion of me is authentic. nutella's is Great Value brand Mac suspicion of me.

[MacDougall]

We are all glad to see TH back. Great guy. You're insulting him with this "I'd never kill him" shit though. When you're a wolf your commitment is to your team and win con. If TH is a perceived threat each and every one of you shoot the fucked. He's a lifer. He's not gonna drop off the face of the Earth just because he cops a bullet after helping is lynch a wolf on day 1. What do you think he doesn't know what to expect here?

All of you saying you wouldn't shoot him are at best lame as fuck.

[MacDougall]

You sillies. If Rej and LC are my teammates, I lynch Dragomir back to Timbuktu.

And you tried those pants on didn't you?

And TH dying helps that since TH town reads Drago.

[MacDougall]

Mac's suspicion of me is authentic. nutella's is Great Value brand Mac suspicion of me.

Okay so we're gonna lynch one of you and depending on the outcome either town lock or lynch the other k?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

We are all glad to see TH back. Great guy. You're insulting him with this "I'd never kill him" shit though. When you're a wolf your commitment is to your team and win con. If TH is a perceived threat each and every one of you shoot the fucked. He's a lifer. He's not gonna drop off the face of the Earth just because he cops a bullet after helping is lynch a wolf on day 1. What do you think he doesn't know what to expect here?

All of you saying you wouldn't shoot him are at best lame as fuck.

I may indeed be lame as fuck, but that doesn't stop me from wanting to maximize the playing experience for an OG who had been away as well as everyone else who hadn't been able to play with that OG for a while -- including myself. It is lame as fuck to kill someone in their first game back in eons on Night 1. It may be "optimal", but it's lame too. Same reason a bunch of us felt awful for lynching Mongoose on Day 1 in one game this year after she had been gone for some time. It's lame.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

You sillies. If Rej and LC are my teammates, I lynch Dragomir back to Timbuktu.

And you tried those pants on didn't you?

And TH dying helps that since TH town reads Drago.

I am saying I lynch him on Day 1. I try on the pants, and I stay in the pants, and I do some lunges in the pants, and I fart open-assed in the pants. I don't need to engage in this wild wacky coordinated distance orchestra at EOD if Dragomir is getting roasted. It was there for the taking.

Anyway this theory isn't very important so y'all do y'all. You're wrong on me, and I think you're wrong on Long Con too.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Mac's suspicion of me is authentic. nutella's is Great Value brand Mac suspicion of me.

Okay so we're gonna lynch one of you and depending on the outcome either town lock or lynch the other k?

Nah. Let's make sure we're reassessing at every turn, k? If after reassessment you still feel the feel, then go right ahead.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I need to get some sleep. I have a feeling y'all might actually lynch me this time, so I suppose I'll assemble some legacy stuff as much as I can in the afternoon. I will not be available at the deadline or the 1-2 hours prior; I have an appointment. Just make sure you don't lynch from my good pile please: Epignosis, Long Con, TSP, Dom.

[nutella]

...Dom is in your good pile again? Y

[JaggedJimmyJay]

...Dom is in your good pile again? Y

The Turnip Head Variable

[MacDougall]

What

[Long Con]

[Dragomir]

Don't love nova ignoring my entire day one post history where I very clearly say what my beef with Drago is.

I iso'd you. You spent most of that day giving him shit for being stubborn and refusing to comply with giving reads. It doesn't feel like there is much else, you were quoting the posts were he was messing around that way with some bullshit "this is why I suspect Drago". There is no progression, nothing else. Feels like you just jumped on the bandwagon, and you've been milking it to have a scum read to navigate the game through.

You could say the same thing about LC here. Not to the same extent but a similar reason. I just wanted to add that.