Champions 2019 - Crisis on The Syndicate [GAME OVER]

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I'd rather hear why juliets is a civilian to you, JJJ.

Chances of Juliets and Jack being teammates are now near zero. Postmark it.

juliets is my top civilian read in general.

I mean come on.

I think her approach to this game so far maps closely to what I have seen from her as a civilian in most-recent memory. The ISOs she has provided, for example -- she has made a point lately of trying to add that layer to her game. This isn't the first time she has given it a shot. Indeed, that's why I offered that reassurance that I would check them out. I believe I recall her suggesting in a previous game that she wasn't good at it and/or nobody was reading them, and I want to reinforce the effort positively. I love the addition to juliets' play. I am not surprised to see her struggling to come to hard conclusions from that work given what I [believe I] know about how juliets thinks. She is careful. She takes her time. She weighs every possibility she can think of. I just think it looks authentic.

Separately, Jack touched upon one of the thoughts I withheld previously: it makes a ton of sense for juliets to be wary of Jack. The two of them were the Inception end game, and it worked in his favor to her detriment.

You are right that she is lacking in activity level compared to those recent games, so that is something she should speak to.

[TonyStarkPrime]

I mean, nutella, thing is Jack has been building his read on you from the start of the game. His progression read to me as a town progression rather than something pre-planned, as he kind of got there and didn't use this history to leverage a scum read on you out of the blue, if it makes any sense. I don't think scum!Jack goes into the game singling you out and I think that would've been a much more sudden, "in your face" kind of scum read that lacks any build up, if he was gonna use his history with you against you.

this would be the easiest way to fake it, if he wanted to

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Jackofhearts2005 can I get that five year old oriented case summary? You don't have to bring out quotes, just give me the absolute cliffs so I have clear direction as I snoop for myself.

This feels like it should have been brought up like... a day ago?

The Jack/nutella dynamic has developed quite a lot in the last day. I've also been working all day.

[TonyStarkPrime]

I also don't get Jack's so sure read on you. Is that normal for Jack, anyone? I seem to remember a more tempered town!Jack.

In my single game (Inception, a few months ago) Jack looked like he was trying to play like he is now, but without being too noticeable. He was scum in that game, so in retrospect I feel like he was trying to imitate his town game as he perceives it.

This makes me hesitate to vote Jack right now, as much as his overall play has been a bit questionable.

I find that town Jack is more unsure in late game in confident end game and scum Jack is the other way around.

[Epignosis]

I'd rather hear why juliets is a civilian to you, JJJ.

Chances of Juliets and Jack being teammates are now near zero. Postmark it.

juliets is my top civilian read in general.

I mean come on.

I think her approach to this game so far maps closely to what I have seen from her as a civilian in most-recent memory. The ISOs she has provided, for example -- she has made a point lately of trying to add that layer to her game. This isn't the first time she has given it a shot. Indeed, that's why I offered that reassurance that I would check them out. I believe I recall her suggesting in a previous game that she wasn't good at it and/or nobody was reading them, and I want to reinforce the effort positively. I love the addition to juliets' play. I am not surprised to see her struggling to come to hard conclusions from that work given what I [believe I] know about how juliets thinks. She is careful. She takes her time. She weighs every possibility she can think of. I just think it looks authentic.

Separately, Jack touched upon one of the thoughts I withheld previously: it makes a ton of sense for juliets to be wary of Jack. The two of them were the Inception end game, and it worked in his favor to her detriment.

You are right that she is lacking in activity level compared to those recent games, so that is something she should speak to.

Fair enough. That's not worth a vote then. I'll move elsewhere.

[Epignosis]

[VOTE: speedchuck] aubergine

[Dom]

[mention]tedxtr[/mention]
Let's say Radishes is out. You can't vote for them.

For whom do you vote and why?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I could lynch speedchuck. I have no reason to call him a civilian. The only half-substantive post is an assertion that I don't agree with:

Spoiler: show

Like Nutella is playing what I would expect from her if she tried really hard to mimic her town game.

Or she’s just town.

Like she’s hitting her scumtell a and her towntells.

This seems to be the epicenter of the Jacktella quake. I am brought to wonder:

How do we (we who know nutella) anticipate her to respond to a post like this, where is she is told she is playing to her norms in both alignments? This is an accusation from Jack after all, even if "softened" by the town half of the presentation. I'm not surprised nutella called it garbage, or that she wondered aloud if a mafioso Jack would be so obvious as to openly hedge in this manner.

Is that where it started? Did he push any harder?

Because I'd be surprised to see nutella offended by this cushy push. More like 'meh' and 'jack do you even have an opinion'

[TonyStarkPrime]

I remember squinting my eyes at Tony earlier. Let's look into that.

sorry tony

keep tryin you’ll lynch me one of these days

[TonyStarkPrime]

I’ll assume that person is scum and lynch them

I think it was this post that gave me the ole squinty eyeballs. I recall Tony making similar joke-posts early on in both Fallout and the Polka Heist, when he was bad. I took a look at the only town game I remember playing with him (Australian Murder Mystery) and he still had a few joke posts early on, but he got down to business pretty quickly. He's more on-topic after this post, but it's the "[Joke about arbitrary suspicion]" brand of post that got my attention.

This is not something that would determine my vote.

I’m just a regular ol jokester

[MacDougall]

I also don't get Jack's so sure read on you. Is that normal for Jack, anyone? I seem to remember a more tempered town!Jack.

In my single game (Inception, a few months ago) Jack looked like he was trying to play like he is now, but without being too noticeable. He was scum in that game, so in retrospect I feel like he was trying to imitate his town game as he perceives it.

This makes me hesitate to vote Jack right now, as much as his overall play has been a bit questionable.

I find that town Jack is more unsure in late game in confident end game and scum Jack is the other way around.

Hahahaha you are bad again. Fuck I own your soul.

[TonyStarkPrime]

I also don't get Jack's so sure read on you. Is that normal for Jack, anyone? I seem to remember a more tempered town!Jack.

In my single game (Inception, a few months ago) Jack looked like he was trying to play like he is now, but without being too noticeable. He was scum in that game, so in retrospect I feel like he was trying to imitate his town game as he perceives it.

This makes me hesitate to vote Jack right now, as much as his overall play has been a bit questionable.

I find that town Jack is more unsure in late game in confident end game and scum Jack is the other way around.

Hahahaha you are bad again. Fuck I own your soul.

I wish

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I also don't get Jack's so sure read on you. Is that normal for Jack, anyone? I seem to remember a more tempered town!Jack.

In my single game (Inception, a few months ago) Jack looked like he was trying to play like he is now, but without being too noticeable. He was scum in that game, so in retrospect I feel like he was trying to imitate his town game as he perceives it.

This makes me hesitate to vote Jack right now, as much as his overall play has been a bit questionable.

I find that town Jack is more unsure in late game in confident end game and scum Jack is the other way around.

Did you mean "early" there? How does this version of Jack stack up?

[Jackofhearts2005]

Nutella you didn’t even know what he was scum reading you for though???

read like two posts above this?? I know what he said his reasoning was it was just garbage

Jack stakes himself on early Nutella reads frequently.
@Jackofhearts2005, when were you last wrong?
It’s one of those things that befuzzles me to no end.


@linki am I getting wooshed or is Epi reading poorly

On Nutella or in general?

[TonyStarkPrime]

Nutella you didn’t even know what he was scum reading you for though???

read like two posts above this?? I know what he said his reasoning was it was just garbage

Jack stakes himself on early Nutella reads frequently.
, when were you last wrong?
It’s one of those things that befuzzles me to no end.


@linki am I getting wooshed or is Epi reading poorly

On Nutella or in general?

Nutella

[TonyStarkPrime]

I also don't get Jack's so sure read on you. Is that normal for Jack, anyone? I seem to remember a more tempered town!Jack.

In my single game (Inception, a few months ago) Jack looked like he was trying to play like he is now, but without being too noticeable. He was scum in that game, so in retrospect I feel like he was trying to imitate his town game as he perceives it.

This makes me hesitate to vote Jack right now, as much as his overall play has been a bit questionable.

I find that town Jack is more unsure in late game in confident end game and scum Jack is the other way around.

Did you mean "early" there? How does this version of Jack stack up?

Meant early instead of end

[TonyStarkPrime]

Jack thoughts on my assessment it’s based solely on two hcrealms games

[TonyStarkPrime]

The amount of vanilla lovers is concerning. Scum hides there mark my words.

Glad to play with everyone btw <3

Sould reading in page 1Tedex villager. Liked Nut - not a surprise ^^
Still reading to catch up. Work may stop this process

I'm glad you're town, Michelle.

Is this legit?

It's correct. Source: am better at reading Michelle than jack is at reading me.

Is posting excerpts from the Aussie game scum chat bad faith here? Because you are absolutely lying and I am nearing 100% confirmation you are wolf because of it.

What?

What does this have to do with anything

Like I think I get it but it's irrelevant here? My ability to read Michelle still stands...???

The part where you keep downplaying Jack being god tier at reading you. I have demonstrable evidence that you know and highly regard his ability to read you. The lines of logic you are using are fallacious as opposed to what they would naturally be if he was actually wrong.

But what would be they be if he was actually wrong?

[Jackofhearts2005]

Nutella you didn’t even know what he was scum reading you for though???

read like two posts above this?? I know what he said his reasoning was it was just garbage

Jack stakes himself on early Nutella reads frequently.
, when were you last wrong?
It’s one of those things that befuzzles me to no end.


@linki am I getting wooshed or is Epi reading poorly

On Nutella or in general?

Nutella

Idk. I pegged some scumtells after teaming with her in Mass Effect and hosting for her in Fire Emblem.

I’m sure I’ve read her wrong before but I can’t recall a time.

[TonyStarkPrime]

Optimism would suggest that 1,200 posts by the halfway point of Day 1 means that we’ve stumbled upon some groundbreaking, decisive conclusions.

But I’m a realist.

Can anyone point me to the post on or about where the MR & nutella trains became the most compelling things going? If so, I promise to skim through tomorrow at lunch to see if I’m on board with either one.

More posts make for less info
I think most of the town reads that have been tossed around are just lingering first impression reads from relatively low posters, which implies something about the over the top posting strategies

[MacDougall]

I'm glad you're town, Michelle.

Is this legit?

It's correct. Source: am better at reading Michelle than jack is at reading me.

Is posting excerpts from the Aussie game scum chat bad faith here? Because you are absolutely lying and I am nearing 100% confirmation you are wolf because of it.

What?

What does this have to do with anything

Like I think I get it but it's irrelevant here? My ability to read Michelle still stands...???

The part where you keep downplaying Jack being god tier at reading you. I have demonstrable evidence that you know and highly regard his ability to read you. The lines of logic you are using are fallacious as opposed to what they would naturally be if he was actually wrong.

But what would be they be if he was actually wrong?

Surprised, or she'd have a fierce scum read of him.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Jack thoughts on my assessment it’s based solely on two hcrealms games

Idk. I feel like I went something like 2 and 12 for town performances in 2018 and then I crushed wolves left and right here and on MU all through 2019.

So like my confidence level has more to do with what year it is than my alignment.

I guess if it’s lylo and I’m scum, I’m more likely to pick out the week link and go all in to get that last necessary mislynch and as town, I’m more likely to have self confirmed and waffle over the other players. Also as town, I’m more likely to end the game before it comes to that point or just get nightkilled.

As for early game, it’s just going to come down to how confident I am on specific reads. I’d rather not lead a lynch early as scum.

Idk if that really answers your question.

[TonyStarkPrime]

Spoiler: show

Is this legit?

It's correct. Source: am better at reading Michelle than jack is at reading me.

Is posting excerpts from the Aussie game scum chat bad faith here? Because you are absolutely lying and I am nearing 100% confirmation you are wolf because of it.

What?

What does this have to do with anything

Like I think I get it but it's irrelevant here? My ability to read Michelle still stands...???

The part where you keep downplaying Jack being god tier at reading you. I have demonstrable evidence that you know and highly regard his ability to read you. The lines of logic you are using are fallacious as opposed to what they would naturally be if he was actually wrong.

But what would be they be if he was actually wrong?

Surprised, or she'd have a fierce scum read of him.

I tend to disagree. We’ve seen this a few times with Rej and Drago (I don’t think in any of the cases where one had a strong day 1 read they were v/v, but I’ll have to check) and it’s been discussed there and my general idea is that the usual reaction is bewilderment, general anger, and resignation — in either case.
For me I’m thinking about what I would do if Sloonei came after me with a case in a few days. it’s a technique Sloonei can pull as scum, but I have to assume that Sloonei as town can misread me too or else what am I saying about my own ability as a scum player?

Did Sloonei lynch me in the game we played together as town? I have no recollection of that game at all.

[Jackofhearts2005]

I’m doing a thing on purpose and this is me saying so so that later, I can say it was on purpose and people will believe me. It’s not all that important. I just know Dom or Jay will gut think it’s bullshit and it’s not.

[TonyStarkPrime]

Jack thoughts on my assessment it’s based solely on two hcrealms games

Idk. I feel like I went something like 2 and 12 for town performances in 2018 and then I crushed wolves left and right here and on MU all through 2019.

So like my confidence level has more to do with what year it is than my alignment.

I guess if it’s lylo and I’m scum, I’m more likely to pick out the week link and go all in to get that last necessary mislynch and as town, I’m more likely to have self confirmed and waffle over the other players. Also as town, I’m more likely to end the game before it comes to that point or just get nightkilled.

As for early game, it’s just going to come down to how confident I am on specific reads. I’d rather not lead a lynch early as scum.

Idk if that really answers your question.

I’m using old data sets — but you made it to endgame in that one game with the sparks and Fallout (as Indy), so I think there’s some data.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Jack thoughts on my assessment it’s based solely on two hcrealms games

Idk. I feel like I went something like 2 and 12 for town performances in 2018 and then I crushed wolves left and right here and on MU all through 2019.

So like my confidence level has more to do with what year it is than my alignment.

I guess if it’s lylo and I’m scum, I’m more likely to pick out the week link and go all in to get that last necessary mislynch and as town, I’m more likely to have self confirmed and waffle over the other players. Also as town, I’m more likely to end the game before it comes to that point or just get nightkilled.

As for early game, it’s just going to come down to how confident I am on specific reads. I’d rather not lead a lynch early as scum.

Idk if that really answers your question.

I’m using old data sets — but you made it to endgame in that one game with the sparks and Fallout (as Indy), so I think there’s some data.

Sparks was my worst towngame of the year by far and I wasn’t town in Fallout.

[TonyStarkPrime]

Confession: didn’t know that turnip head and master radishes were different. Their fault for having similar vegetables in their name.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Mac's whole "I will prove X based on previous mafia chats" thing is a good replication of his treatment of me in Dogs vs. Cats (he was a civilian). It came out with the same kind of aw-hell-naw suddenness too, so I doubt that was a deliberate move.

[TonyStarkPrime]

Jack thoughts on my assessment it’s based solely on two hcrealms games

Idk. I feel like I went something like 2 and 12 for town performances in 2018 and then I crushed wolves left and right here and on MU all through 2019.

So like my confidence level has more to do with what year it is than my alignment.

I guess if it’s lylo and I’m scum, I’m more likely to pick out the week link and go all in to get that last necessary mislynch and as town, I’m more likely to have self confirmed and waffle over the other players. Also as town, I’m more likely to end the game before it comes to that point or just get nightkilled.

As for early game, it’s just going to come down to how confident I am on specific reads. I’d rather not lead a lynch early as scum.

Idk if that really answers your question.

I’m using old data sets — but you made it to endgame in that one game with the sparks and Fallout (as Indy), so I think there’s some data.

Sparks was my worst towngame of the year by far and I wasn’t town in Fallout.

I don’t even remember any of the other ones but I only played a few months worth

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I’m doing a thing on purpose and this is me saying so so that later, I can say it was on purpose and people will believe me. It’s not all that important. I just know Dom or Jay will gut think it’s bullshit and it’s not.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Registering a vote for nutella, as I understand that case more than the one against radishes

[Dom]

Mac, I once again am asking you to clarify why you wanted someone you claim is baddie (me) to corroborate a piece of evidence for you.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Ok Bernie

[Dom]

: (

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I don’t think it’s a bad question (I haven’t really read it tbh) I just couldn’t resist the joke

[MacDougall]

Mac, I once again am asking you to clarify why you wanted someone you claim is baddie (me) to corroborate a piece of evidence for you.

Because there are two scum teams

[speedchuck]

But ted's insistence on how much he hates AtE and then saying we should lynch anyone who does is... is.... an appeal... to emotion...

I'm the one who said that.

[MacDougall]

Also because if you are teammates it would force you into an awkward situation which is pretty much the point.

[speedchuck]

@speedchuck do you have any developed thoughts on jack and/or nutella? What about anyone else in the game?

I think the Jack/Nutella thing was interesting, primarily because of reactions to it. Tedxtr's reaction was notable, like he was incredibly pro-nutella and focused on nutella. Dunno if that's changed.

@tedxtr do you know nutella prior to this?

[tedxtr]

I don't know why I feel resistance to read S-V-S as town. Cause she probably very well could be.

Good read

[MacDougall]

I don't know why I feel resistance to read S-V-S as town. Cause she probably very well could be.

Good read

What? This is a terrible read. What does it even mean?

[tedxtr]

Wait.

Dyslexicon
Epignosis
juliets
Michelle
nutella
S~V~S

Sloonei
tedxtr
TonyStarkPrime
sprityo
Tranq
Turnip Head

ColinIsCool
Dom
Dragomir

G-Man
Jackofhearts2005
JaggedJimmyJay
Master Radishes
NANOOK
sabie12
sig
speedchuck

This is random and way too full for so early a point in the game. Some of the names listed had barely posted.

[VOTE: Vote MacDougall] aubergine

...

Yeah, I like this.

I'm going to head to bed now.

Why do I read this as a wolf that came out of wolf chat and decided to ISO low posters because probably nobody focused on em and it’s easy to fake contribution by doing that

Feeling content with my vote

[nutella]

@speedchuck do you have any developed thoughts on jack and/or nutella? What about anyone else in the game?

I think the Jack/Nutella thing was interesting, primarily because of reactions to it. Tedxtr's reaction was notable, like he was incredibly pro-nutella and focused on nutella. Dunno if that's changed.

@tedxtr do you know nutella prior to this?

What is this post

Is it blank? I feel like I'm looking at a blank post here

[nutella]

[VOTE: speedchuck] aubergine

do things

[nutella]

Wait.

Dyslexicon
Epignosis
juliets
Michelle
nutella
S~V~S

Sloonei
tedxtr
TonyStarkPrime
sprityo
Tranq
Turnip Head

ColinIsCool
Dom
Dragomir

G-Man
Jackofhearts2005
JaggedJimmyJay
Master Radishes
NANOOK
sabie12
sig
speedchuck

This is random and way too full for so early a point in the game. Some of the names listed had barely posted.

[VOTE: Vote MacDougall] aubergine

...

Yeah, I like this.

I'm going to head to bed now.

Why do I read this as a wolf that came out of wolf chat and decided to ISO low posters because probably nobody focused on em and it’s easy to fake contribution by doing that

Feeling content with my vote

Yeah that makes sense actually imo, especially since he only realized later that the list was originally jay's and not mac's

[mention]Master Radishes[/mention] was there some reason you were looking at mac's posts specifically / what exactly led you to bring this up?

[tedxtr]

I don't know why I feel resistance to read S-V-S as town. Cause she probably very well could be.

Good read

What? This is a terrible read. What does it even mean?

@ me in this I’ll explain later

[nutella]

Check out my sweet adverbs

[nutella]

I don't know why I feel resistance to read S-V-S as town. Cause she probably very well could be.

Good read

What? This is a terrible read. What does it even mean?

@ me in this I’ll explain later

[nutella]

also [mention]speedchuck[/mention] no tedxtr and I have never met before this game

[tedxtr]

@speedchuck do you have any developed thoughts on jack and/or nutella? What about anyone else in the game?

I think the Jack/Nutella thing was interesting, primarily because of reactions to it. Tedxtr's reaction was notable, like he was incredibly pro-nutella and focused on nutella. Dunno if that's changed.

@tedxtr do you know nutella prior to this?

What is this post

Is it blank? I feel like I'm looking at a blank post here

Oh i must’ve missed this but thanks for pointing it out

No I don’t, why’s that relevant? My point was the AtE from her felt forced and it tempers with my handling of the slot.

[mention]@speedchuck[/mention]