Champions 2019 - Crisis on The Syndicate [GAME OVER]

[nutella]

On the one hand, colin seems, well, cool. On the other hand, all of a sudden he starts contributing to hunting now that we have a scum flip... could be convenient timing from an Other-Scum.

Or he's town.

[tedxtr]

why does nutella feel off tonally

[Jackofhearts2005]

Nutella seems fine to me so far.

[tedxtr]

hm

[sig]

I also heartily disagree with whoever has floated TH as a radishmate. I think they look quite clear.

Agreed, more likely if TH is mafia he's on other team.....with Mac

[TonyStarkPrime]

Li kinda want to mansplain to Sabie how she’s misusing the term “mansplainig.”

[TonyStarkPrime]

I also heartily disagree with whoever has floated TH as a radishmate. I think they look quite clear.

Agreed, more likely if TH is mafia he's on other team.....with Mac

This is where it became funny.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

How did this person handle Master Radishes?


ColinIsCool

Spoiler: show

[VOTE: Master Radishes] aubergine

He left the game long ago and didn't give me the villagery feeling he had in the inception game. I know he was 3rd part, but an independent can have towny posts easier than mafia.

Although before I caught up I misinterpreted nutella as scum and read the thread as such, so some of my thoughts are useless.

I feel best about sig, his NANOOK suspicion and case felt really genuine. I also really like just about everything I’ve seen from ted. I like Jay so far, and Epi.

The Michelle post I quoted earlier bugged me out, I’m not sure what it meant/if it makes any sense. I agree with Epi’s concerne toward juliets.

Radishes isn’t giving me the same exact vibe as he did when I sniffed him out as 3P in Inception, but it’s similar ...

[VOTE: Master Radishes] aubergine

He left the game long ago and didn't give me the villagery feeling he had in the inception game. I know he was 3rd part, but an independent can have towny posts easier than mafia.

Although before I caught up I misinterpreted nutella as scum and read the thread as such, so some of my thoughts are useless.

I feel best about sig, his NANOOK suspicion and case felt really genuine. I also really like just about everything I’ve seen from ted. I like Jay so far, and Epi.

The Michelle post I quoted earlier bugged me out, I’m not sure what it meant/if it makes any sense. I agree with Epi’s concerne toward juliets.

Radishes isn’t giving me the same exact vibe as he did when I sniffed him out as 3P in Inception, but it’s similar ...

Consecutive Colin posts. I highlight two things yellow, one from Michelle and one from Colin, that follow similar themes. They discuss Radish as a third party in the Inception game with some kind of implied impact upon present reads. Michelle declares her read with a vote. Colin declares nothing and leaves the ellipsis. That's not inspired.

The non-read aside, I don't know why you'd be confused (orange) by what Michelle said, Colin, given that you talked about the same thing immediately thereafter.

Because Michelle’s idea is more about how a 3P might appear generally, not just Radishes. I found it disagreeable and possibly disingenuous although it’s not a smoking gun or anything.

So Michelle, I feel like her stance on Radishes/3P was a general idea about Mafia that doesn’t really track whereas my idea was about Radishes in particular. That’s the difference and it’s not enough to really scumread Michelle (townies have inconsistent logic every game). I don’t scumread her at the moment.

juliets, I just find myself asking questions of her play, which is a lot of asking questions. Sometimes (like in the exchange I quoted) it looks like she’s looking for someone to tell her how to feel so that she can take cover under the thoughts of others, but now I’m getting kinda tinfoilly. I would lean scum I think all the same.

Re: Tony, see the post Dizzy made that I quoted.

Also excuse me but vote analysis can still be done. For example, people voting nutella over radishes are slightly higher chance to be scum.

Only if Radishes is scum, though, right? Or am I missing something

Of the present multi-vote wagons (Colin, Mac, Radish) I think Radish is the best lynch.

I am inclined to agree with this. Tonally I do feel like Radishes is playing a similar game to Inception. Also, question for him or for the thread, but when he ISO’d a bunch of people nobody else was talking about, why did he pick those people? Was it prompted?

Of the present multi-vote wagons (Colin, Mac, Radish) I think Radish is the best lynch.

I am inclined to agree with this. Tonally I do feel like Radishes is playing a similar game to Inception. Also, question for him or for the thread, but when he ISO’d a bunch of people nobody else was talking about, why did he pick those people? Was it prompted?

They were the wagon voters on me last round, ergo potential scum slots.

If I sound similar to Inception, are you saying I'm 3P again?

Not necessarily 3P but something about you seems guarded/artificial ... no offense

Yeah I think I'm going to follow my \ gut and go [VOTE: Master Radishes] aubergine.

Colin's read on Radishes was not presented with clarity -- he made vague allusions to the Inception game wherein MR was an independent. I wouldn't say that constituted a concrete suspicion until Colin affirmed my comment (his affirmation in pink) that MR would be the best lynch of the present wagons. He eventually voted Radish about three hours prior to the deadline before leaving for the phase. I believe at this point Mac's wagon had inflated, so it could be said that Colin's vote wasn't especially impactful when he placed it. I won't eliminate his candidacy based upon this content.

Compatibility: Decent

~~~

Dom

Spoiler: show

Mm, I like talking about myself. Make me do it more.

You said "baddie" earlier. That is the term the founders of this forum used (and some still do) but I have not heard it much outside of us. I am curious to know where you played as well.

I just tend to start adopting a forum's local slang a bit. I say 'Indy' when playing here too, which I've not seen used anywhere else.

The one I can't accept is 'civilian', which is just such a mouthful when you could just say 'town' or 'vill'.




(Having skimmed through the discussion of my usage of this term that followed, it was pointless and I'm going to ignore it.)

I tend to believe this because civvie or civ is right there

tedxtr
Let's say Radishes is out. You can't vote for them.

For whom do you vote and why?

On phone at work so not here to have an extended convo. But, nutella, I was ISOing a few people and Mac's reads stood out to me. I checked Ted and sloonei, then quickly glanced at TSP, Dom, and Mac as I looked for people flying under the radar (except dom who was due to dizzys vote). I also glanced at speedchuk and sabie but by that point felt my approach wasn't worthwhile and didn't post anything about it.

What people are interpreting as flailing is just me knowing no one and nothing and looking for angles people haven't considered yet. I had nothing to add to the nutella/Jack debate and didn't feel inclined to reread it all. (I also shaded nute way before anyone else did, and expressed my read of Jack from limited meta.)

I've said it before, I hate D1s. It's not the first time I've ended up being a D1 wagon for not appearing helpful enough.

I have no idea what the enlarged text means.

I'm going to look at Master Radish next and then nutella.

Any reason for the order here considering Nutella is present and Radishes is not?

This is Mac's only post mentioning Radishes.
He is voting Radish.

When he came in, it was 2 on Mac and 3 on Radish.

He voted to make it 4 on radish.

.... why? Just to protect himself? Why Radish? Colin was right there too.

Guys I know it's pretty well documented, but can some radish hawks just summarize the suspicion in like... one sentence or so?

[reads list snipped by JJJ for brevity]

I do not like this post.

Dom was rather passive on MR in each of these posts save the last one. I don't care about the first thing where they're talking about usage of the word "civvie". From there mentions of Radish in Dom's posts seemed incidental as much as deliberate. He is mentioned as part of a prod to tex; the prod is entirely about tex and not Radish. He is mentioned alongside an accusation of Mac. "I have no idea what the large text means" is vaguely accusatory. I don't draw much from this. Radish played a minor role in Dom's content overall. His D2 vote went to Mac.

Compatibility: Decent

~~~

Dragomir

Nada.

Compatibility: Technical

Dyslexicon

Spoiler: show

So much text. I can't wait until most of us die. But also I love you all. And also also hi to the, I think, three players I haven't played with before. Apart from that I have at least some idea or a lot of ideas about the others.

Hi.

Wait. Let's make that four. I'm sure I've seen your name around here and probably at MU (?)

I'm half-heartedly reading through. Do you guys ever stop talking about hidden significances behind your choice of ice cream flavour? Do I need to care about this conversation?

What do you think?

I cannot tell if Dizzy is giving an actual read on me or just goofing around.

You would know if the voting poll was open.

Catching up page 1-5


~snip~

Sometimes looking at something from the corner of your eye allows you to see more. /deep thoughts

Relatable content.

~snip~

Yeah who could possibly use the word baddie

And this thing. Honestly, I think "baddie" is a real unique word, and I've never seen it used outside of Cindy Kate. I've never adopted it myself (because it's seeeelly). So I don't think the question from S-V-S or hangup from Sig is weird at all. Do I think it's alignment indicative for Radish? Nope. People adopt or do not adopt words for all kinds of reasons. The brain is too complicated and there's too many steps of assumptions to get anything from it. But I do flinch every time someone who doesn't know me calls me "Dizzy" for example. (Though I encourage everyone to call me Dizzy, please.)

I think Sig's follow up on S-V-S looks more town concern than not. Also the way he tagged certain players to get opinions.

Independent of all this: how do we all feel about master radishes?

Not great. I get the feeling that his presence is a bit flashy/comes across as performative. It's something I've seen with experienced players that they want to be a bit edgy/go against the grain give the impression that they are confident and have nothing to hide when they are scum. Compensating. Like when they asked "are we all seriously reading into ice cream flavors" (<-- from memory, might not be exact) or something like that. I don't know if I explain this right, but "performative" is what comes to mind and it feels not great.

S-V-S - Not sure. All posts are like ok, but I don't particularly understand why she felt moved to ask Radish why he used the word "baddie" if she didn't think it would be AI at all. Seems like she backed out. The whole thing became a argument between Sig and Nanook, which I think are both town. And both S-V-S and Radish are not in it or trying to solve it at all, which I don't like.

Radish - [VOTE: Radish] aubergine This is the player I get the worst impression of.

Yeah, okay, I don't have the time or will to slog through the thread again. Just...give me someone(s) to ISO or summat.

Sloonei and Ted pops into my head as interesting ISOs for what it's worth.

The caveats are pretty much the same caveat, e.g. 'Player X seems to be working hard to solve the game; this is a good look for them...except if they're just on scum team 1 and are looking for scum team 2.'

Ted and Sig pop into mind when I think of this.

Another example: normally I'd say Turnip's vote on me feels natural enough, as he hinted at it in earlier posts; but then again, if he's Scum A who wants to slip onto a non-leading wagon he thinks could be Scum B, then he's played it exactly right.

Yeah, multiball sucks. But some players are just pure in heart. Like me. <3 I read your post to/about me, will respond.

I think my posts have been deemed fake.

Self awareness.

I sort of liked his play from what I'd noticed, but his vote on me is very wagony.

Will ISO Sloonei in a bit, as requested.

I'm distrustful. Cindy Kate has some very good mafia players and a mafia bias in general (not as strong town play as mafia play imo). Though Jimmaaay has often been town and is very good at that and very active. I'm just a bit extra careful. Same with Sloonei. And probably others tbh. But it's not like I have a conclusion anyway.

I get what you mean about this completely; you're just misinterpreting where the 'performative' bit (maybe not the right word - more like adopting a persona?) comes from. I'm playing in a game with a bunch of people I don't know but who know each other, but have the confidence to 'go against the grain' as you say, as this isn't my first rodeo. I'm not consciously adopting a persona (okay, that was also the wrong phrase) but, yeah, my internet/mafia style tends towards dismissive and sarcastic in the early stages of games, especially on sites I'm not familiar with.

I guess I'd say it sounds like posturing. Also a bit aloof. I read back in your ISO now and I still don't get a good vibe. I don't understand why the "Are we ever going to stop talking about the significance of ice cream flavor and do I need to care?" exists. I don't care for the "I like sloonei but I don't remember why", which you also did with Nut later. That's the kind of lolzy aloof attitude I'm comfortable holding up myself as scum. I realize I'm just reiterating my points again. I just don't think my feelings have changed. Though I do appreciate you being active and involved in the game, whether my read is correct or not.

I've not voted yet so I haven't seen the poll. Who is in the 4th slot on Nutella, Jack, and/or me?

Thar be scum. Bet me.

I don't think the votes are ordered so in that case you'll have to go back and see. Are you saying the 4th vote on a wagon is scum? Cause...? I don't believe in number magic in mafia myself but ok.

I appreciate Radishes content, but I still don't trust him. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

But also

[VOTE: Juliets] aubergine

I've not seen anything for her that sticks out or anything that she couldn't also just say as scum. I cri evertim.

Oh right, I forgot they're not in order. Eh, not putting in the work myself.

Roster size depending, 4th slot is more often the scum slot than any other slot, in my experience. (I've not done any statistical analysis of this.)

Yeah, I've heard that before about the 3rd or 4th vote, but it kind of makes me want to do fart noises lol. I feel there are way better tells with any particular vote in any particular game than what a universal number can be.

To think that I asked Radish to give an ISO on his scummate Sloonei

I didn't even realize Sloonei was voting Radish. There's too many players to keep track of. I want us all to die soon. In the game.

Someone else did an early way-too-full reads list too, I think. I can't remember who.

Mac just copied Jimmaaay's. Probably a joke. Jimmay was the one with the full read list. Let's wagon. It's a great idea.

I would be OK with a Radish lynch as well, Nanooks reaction to that whole thing last night was too strong, I don't think I buy that he was an outraged bystander. I don't understand Ted or Dyslexicons game yet.

Does this mean you think Nanook is teamed with Radish?
What does it mean that you don't understand my game (or Ted's game)? Can you be more specific?

~I am skipping a couple pages of Dizzy's ISO to get to the other side of the progression~

Of the present multi-vote wagons (Colin, Mac, Radish) I think Radish is the best lynch.

The good thing about lynching Radish is info as well. I think it's likely he's scum. The wagons being Nut/Radish could provide info (but I guess especially if he's scum. If he's town, it just reveals scum wouldn't give a shit among them)

Guys I know it's pretty well documented, but can some radish hawks just summarize the suspicion in like... one sentence or so?

Fake, unconvincing.

You know what, I just want people to die. I just need answers. I'm still on Radish is scum-train, I pray to god I'm not wrong.

[VOTE: Radish] aubergine

There's literally 9 good lynches. Should be possible to find one. I don't know why it seems so hard, but this seems not much different from D1 unfortunately.

Some notes:

- I feel Colin is more likely town than scum for his righteousness. "Lynch me and I'll laugh at you". Annoying attitude, but probably likelier town than scum.

- I don't feel like lynching Mac is a good idea. I don't know. I kind of buy his defense, and i also feel like how he's giving out reads and thoughts rapidly, but then at the same time warns against "you should probably not listen to these" is more town. It's town doubt that he doesn't want to be fully responsible for those reads. That's my feeling.

- I'm honestly getting cold feet on Radish, but that is just because it would suck so much if he's town here.

- I can't follow the convo between Juliets and Sloonei at all.

Ok, I'm going to go deep gut now.

Team 1: Radish, Sabie, SVS, X
Team 2: Ted, Epi, X, X

Voodoo

I know some people think it's dumb to do connection analysis, but it's pretty much the only thing I got now. I don't get anywhere if I just think about one player at the time, cause I can usually argue both sides then. I don't feel I have enough grasp on most people's meta.

So I'm just putting this out there in case it becomes useful for later.
- Turnip has only critical things to say about Radish. Yet he ends up on the Nut wagon on D1 with the insistence of "We should stay the course" on her. He's also said D2 that he could still vote Radish. But he isn't. Right now he wants to build a Jack-Wagon.
- Turnip has absolutely no interaction with SVS at all, apart from saying "Hi, it's an honor to be playing with you again." He also removed SVS from my maybe-town-list, but I have no idea why, since he has not mentioned SVS at all.
- I already spoke about the possible Radish/sabie-connection. Not sure on this.
- Not sure on SVS as well tbh.

For future reference if Radish or someone flips scum.

@tedxtr Ok. I don't know what to say to that. I've liked your other posts, mostly. /shrug.

Jimmay reminding me that we should probably just lynch Radish.
[VOTE:
Radish] aubergine

There's so many flips I want to see. Preferably a scum one. Convince me of a case. I can probably be convinced of many votes. I convinced myself of Radish.

Turnip Head Have you lost interest in a Radish lynch though?

Having read over the last two pages, Dys and Dom are my top townreads.

Me too.

@Dizzy, I actually feel quite about us, because I think we'd make a kickass towncore. I see and like the way you think the game. Too bad about the whole you-think-I'm-bad thing.

This hit me right in the feels, also because I kind of think the same thing. What if we just did that for a change? Dom and G-Man could come. Also Tony, for silly reasons.

[VOTE: Turnip Head] aubergine

Not feeling the Jack or G-man wagons.

Will check in later.

Ok. So I don't know Turnip super well. But the last time I saw him as town he also wrote one sentence posts with unexplained reads and that shit. I actually feel like Turnip has been trying to solve and I see a lot of where he's coming from.

Radish: I like how you think.
Me: I wish I knew what I was even thinking..

I'm going back and forth between them and at the same time thinking neither of them.

Jimmay? Sloonei?
Some lurker like Tranq?
Why is it so hard to find a good lynch target with so many scum in thread?
Have I just been buddied by Radish?

Someone tell me why Master Radishes is a civilian.

Because he was tugging at my heart strings.

Sloonei, I used the same argument for Ted as your using for G-man/Radish now

I don’t like Mac being there to scream at the exact right time.

But also I’ve argued for Radish as scum all game, so can’t be mad

I feel Radish will flip town rip

Dizzy spared nothing in their dialogue on MR. You can follow it pretty clearly in the above content even with half of it skipped. I think Dizzy looks fine. The early-stage concerns read genuinely to me, and when they started to get the self-diagnosed cold feet later it doesn't bother me. This all looks very believably Dyslexicon in character. If there's a criticism to be leveled, it's that Dizzy's vote ended up on a useless 2-vote Sloonei wagon alongside G-Man. To assess this one must first assess Dizzy's handling of Mac -- if they wanted to save Radish, then voting Mac was a better means of doing so. So I've taken a quick scan of that. Dizzy was mildly anti-Mac until Mac's late Day 2 appearance. Then there was some doubt, until this post happened. Dizzy had set the table to justify a Mac vote and did not place it. So I think that alleviates some of the concern over the lame off-wagon vote.

Compatibility: Low

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Epignosis

Spoiler: show

New poll.

Favourite spread:

-Strawberry jam
-Marmalade
-Peanut Butter
-Marmite
-Vegemite

...think that covers it.

Legs.

[VOTE: Master Radishes] aubergine

"Epi, why?"

Okay, serious attempt at self-analysis and then I'm going to bed. (GMT, fyi.)

I've definitely evolved my style over the years, and activity/engagement will vary game to game, but generally as town I rely on analysing votes and wagons (and therefore hate D1/spend it town-clearing more so than anything). I like to re-read the flow of the thread at certain points (e.g. as wagons form/EoDs) rather than ISO individual players, though of course I do that too sometimes. It's time-consuming, though, so when I'm busy (as I am these days) I will rely more on waiting for posts to ping me and then hounding that player.

As scum I'm not afraid to bus to keep up any town cred I've gained, but otherwise try to keep my game simple and sneak into a towncore by trying to play to my town meta. If I don't succeed in that, I'm a fairly useless scummate and quite easy to find. But if I do succeed I'm pretty decent at deepwolfing, I like to think.

As indy I just make it up as I go, as Jay and Sloonei can confirm.

Like am I crazy here or is this a potential slip.

Speculation: juliets could still be a baddie. Nothing except 'she's played well' disqualifies her.

But I don't have the energy nor commitment to look there.

This was from Inception. Master Radishes was Independent. There is no slip.

Anyway, I suspect Radish and Nanook most. That's my initial take.

This is 100% how Sloonei plays, he's like a prosecuter in a TV show about lawyers.

Thanks.

The only legal drama I ever watched was the Good Wife.

You dont know nothin bout dat Matlock

Jay made readslist.

I copied it and replaced my name with his.

My post was about 3 posts after Jay's.

Radishes calls me scum for doing something Jay did three posts before me for realsies that I did as a joke.

Radishes avoided calling Jay scum.

Because they are teammate.

I'll wait.

Also Mac and epi if you read like two more posts youd see radishes realized his mistake and switched to Jay lol.

I already alluded to that.

~snip repeat spoiler~

This is a horseshit observation.

You don't believe a word of it.

That last part makes you seem open-minded but last bit you tack shows you aren't. This is the weakest push I've ever seen from you in my life.

You are mafia.

[VOTE: JaggedJimmyJay] aubergine

Hi Epignosis

Considering the number of times you've told me over the years that something I've posted is the [weakest ______ you've ever seen from me], I must have a talent for lowering the bar.

I suspect speedchuck, and those are reasons why I suspect speedchuck. The end. Regarding the last thing: I don't give a damn about "open-minded". That's an accusation. He made one move that I thought could bear the potential to be productive, and he neutered that move himself. I don't like that.

Why else do you hate all that so much?

That particular post I quoted reeked of insincerity at the time. However, you have a post history that suggests otherwise regarding your treatment of speedchuck (I see multiple instances of you trying to engage speedchuck / vote for speedchuck / get other people to talk about speedchuck).

Your vote isn't on him right now, so let me ask you this: What makes Master Radishes a better Day 2 lynch than speedchuck?

Actually, the fact I'm surprised Jay has so many posts is concerning, considering I don't remember him leading us anywhere, only hopping on the Radishes wagon after everyone else already did.

What do you remember from any player in this game thread that you haven't just ISO'd? I haven't read everything yet, but I dunno what you think of anyone.

Then you're not actually reading my posts, just voting for me. Interesting.

Steaming the tamales, which I've never made before and am unlikely to make again. What a pain in the ass. Who came up with the idea of putting dough in corn husks?

I'm here for half an hour.

move your vote

Why?

Because Jay's town and we're not about to lynch him in the last half hour of the day with several viable options on the board.

Yesterday ruined me for this day phase. I can't keep up and shit keeps piling up.

Why is your preference Radishes over Mac?

I think the most noteworthy thing here is that Epignosis never made any meaningful move to prevent a Radish lynch. The only "defensive" thing in here is affirming that Radish didn't slip -- something nobody cares about anyway. I don't think bussing is completely outside Epi's repertoire, but I also believe he would be inclined to try to lynch somebody else. He dicked around with a vote on me when that wasn't going to happen and then eventually added his own vote to the Radish wagon.

Compatibility: Low

~~~

G-Man

Spoiler: show

Optimism would suggest that 1,200 posts by the halfway point of Day 1 means that we’ve stumbled upon some groundbreaking, decisive conclusions.

But I’m a realist.

Can anyone point me to the post on or about where the MR & nutella trains became the most compelling things going? If so, I promise to skim through tomorrow at lunch to see if I’m on board with either one.

Okay so the fact that I have had 6 unmoved votes on me for the past 2 hours approaching deadline is a pretty solid indication that both scum teams are on my wagon imo.

The fact that Jack/TH/G-Man and Radishes wagons have all had no momentum strongly indicates at least 1, probably more of them are solid wagons.

I am not letting you lynch me today. So figure out where to put your vote that isn't me. This ain't happening.

Okay, I don’t trust Sloonei, so I can’t vote for Radish. I’m not crazy enough to vote for myself (yet). That leaves TH. I don’t have a handle on the case for lynching him, so care to share? There’s too much post-vomit to sift through and I’ve got ironing to do.

The second post is not ideal. "I can't trust Sloonei so I cannot possibly place a vote on the same person for whom he placed a vote" in a game with some 23ish people and multiple mafia teams is a bad look.

Compatibility: High

~~~

Jackofhearts2005

Spoiler: show

Radish has made a decent number of posts and none of them have inspired any feeling in me, so that's a net negative.

This mirrors my thoughts as well.

I for one hate looking terrible but I'd rather lynch radish

I’m unlikely to move my vote today (especially to a player I’ve mostly see play 3p) but talk to me about Radish anyway.

I have no idea where I’d put my vote now. Maybe on Radishes but that feels like a cop out because I don’t suspect Radishes I just don’t see anything townie in him and he’s probably the player here whose game I have the weakest grasp of.

Somebody explain the Radishes wagon.

I kinda want to lynch Dom.

Out of time. Okay, let’s do this quickly - no links, soz. But trust me on my interpretation.

After Jack initiated the Nutella vote (bottom of page 11), it gained little traction. In fact, he mostly got flack at first – Mac and Sloonei both dismissed it, especially Mac (who called Nutella town and Jack scum in the space of a few posts.) Nutella counter-votes, and Epi and Sprit both join the Jack vote in their own time. But everyone was focusing on Nanookian satire instead.

Jack wouldn’t let it go, and as the discussion over Nanook wanes, Ted votes Nutella (‘page 12 was yucky’), whilst SVS and Dom vote Jack. It becomes the thread’s main focus for a couple pages. The Radish wagon picks up and kills it off, eventually. (Ted switches off at some point.)

Jack still doesn’t let it go, and some pages later Mac now (despite his earlier stance) declares Jack often right about this and nutella’s defence bad (but doesn’t vote there). Turnip Head, seemingly going off of Mac’s posts, votes Nutella (but only says ‘why not’). Epi questions Jack’s logic, but then a page later also votes Nutella (no reason given). Sig quickly also votes Nutella (‘reactions’). A bit later, Dom (reason unclear, but I think about ‘back peddling’) and Sabie (scum!Jack wouldn’t do this) also vote Nutella.

The wagon goes a bit stale, and Epi and Sig both jump off it.

--

At its peak moment, the voters, by my count and in order, were: Jack, TH, Epi, Sig, Dom, Sabie [6]. It’s at this moment that there is very likely at least one scum on the wagon. The Nutella vote gained momentum fairly quickly, and was a duelling wagon with the one on me. Scum mentality is to nudge these sort of wagons, and I think it’s perfectly reasonable to work under the assumption there is at least one in this group.

All 5 non-Jack voters can appear to be opportunistic. TH, Epi, and Dom gave no reasons, whilst Sig and Sabie gave lacklustre reasons. (Also notable is Mac, who nudged it along without ever landing there.)

Of those names, I’m not sure one in particular stands out. I think Sig’s vote was the most egregious, but his macro play of all those names has been the greenest. At the moment I’m not entirely sure where I’d place a vote (and obviously can’t anyway), but GTH I’d say Sabie. Also not a fan of Mac’s play on this – inconsistent and never landed on the wagon or, conversely, showed progression away from it. Just blew on the sparks a bit.



And off to bed I go.

This is all fair (but I don’t have to give you cred for it cause lolmultiball) and I think Dom and Mac look worst off it.

Cause he forgot about his townread on her cause it was fake. Or cause Nutella was suddenly more appealing as a lynch considering she was counterwagon to his buddy Radish (which would be convenient considering our top wagons) than she was when I was the only player voting for her.

My progression is out there for everyone to see. Mac's progression doesn't exist on the thread.

There's not a lot here. Jack's attention in this game has been focused upon narrower channels, and it's made all of his mentions of Radish essentially ancillary. I don't find it inspiring. I am bugged by the last post in the spoiler where he's morphed what was a nothing read into "Mac's teammate" -- using the Radish wagon itself as a theoretical mechanism by which he could accuse Mac (where his final D2 vote landed).

Compatibility: Decent

[JaggedJimmyJay]

juliets

Spoiler: show

Independent of all this: how do we all feel about master radishes?

I don't have a feeling about him yet. I'm not inclined to lean him bad because he used the term "baddie".

Can someone explain the radishes case to be? Is it just “he hasn’t made enough of an impression”?

As I was reading through today every time I came to a Radish vote it seemed like it was out of the blue so I also have the same question as Nanook. What is the case? Maybe people made one a long the way and I just didn't put all the pieces together but if so please put it together for me.

I'm feeling good about sig, Dizzy, JaggedJay, ted and SVS and I'm starting to feel better about Nanook. There are probably more but I'm tired at the moment and not remembering everyone.

I need to read Jack's ISO to get a better handle on him. I can understand Nutella's frustration because bad Jack "tunneled" me twice when I was civ in separate games and it was infuriating. Still, I'm not sure that's what's going on here and I need to put together why he's got so many votes. I am notoriously bad at reading Jack though as everyone who played Inception remembers I'm sure.

S~V~S's thoughts on nutella sway me to start leaning town on her. I will ISO her as well just to make sure.

As I said, I'm tired and not feeling well at the moment so I'm going to rest for a bit and come back to start digging in.

I'm going to look at Master Radish next and then nutella.

Any reason for the order here considering Nutella is present and Radishes is not?

nutella will take me longer and I don't know that I can finish her tonight. I guess I could do as much of her as I can tonight and post it and finish her in the morning, so I'll do that.

OK, I'm up to date. Going to finish looking at nutella and then Radish and speed. They will be shorter so it won't take as much time. I'll leave this page open and check back to keep up with the posts while I'm working.

ISO @Master Radishes

Let me start by admitting a bias. Radishes was one of my favorite people I met during the championships on MU. I heard from several people that he was a masterful player so I was so happy when he signed up for our Invitational (that was the Inception game). In that game he was downright brilliant as the independent who lived until the end and won (along with that damn mafia). In fact he won a Socky for his performance there. So I was thrilled when he decided to give us another try by playing this game. Therefore, my heart is heavy that he has so many votes here and is in danger of getting lynched. I hate to see new people, especially ones I'm attached to, get lynched in early game. I know this is a weakness of mine and I'm trying to guard against being swayed by these feelings.

With all that bias admitted I believe I was objective in going through his ISO. I didn't see any flailing and I didn't see anything I interpreted as fake. I saw a calm and collected Radishes who was genuine. I do not lean scum on him after reading him closely.

People I respect and am leaning town on voted him however and I'm asking them (and anyone else) to help me see what I am missing here. What is the case against Radishes besides flailing and sounding fake? Am I missing the point entirely?

Spoiler: show

- He starts the game with some casual conversation and points out (rightly) that the poll doesn't say anything about it being about ice cream. I liked his entry in the game, he seems relaxed and ready to play.

- Makes the post people have talked about where he says "I'm half-heartedly reading through. Do you guys ever stop talking about hidden significances behind your choice of ice cream flavour? Do I need to care about this conversation?" Others have said they didn't like this post but I thought it was normal for someone who isn't used to polls meaning something and there being prizes associated with it.

- Voices a thought that S~V~S's posts could be from scum - not are but could be. I don't agree with him here, I didn't see her posts scummy at all but I have played with her for 9-10 years and this is his first game with her.

- Still in Day 0 says he likes nutella so far but doesn't have a reason why. Asks for meta on her. He's played with her before so I was a little surprised he asked for meta. I guess though he had only played with her once? Sloonei answers his question and he says he will see how she evolves. Fair answer I think at this point.

- Sloonei asks him his approach to mafia and he says he is not the right person to ask (though he does answer the question somewhat). I agree with him here, he could say whatever he wanted and we wouldn't really know if he was telling the truth or not.

- He later attempts more analysis about himself. I like that he admitted he is not afraid to bus when bad and likes to sneak into the town core by playing to his town meta. Would he have told us that if he were scum? It seems unlikely.

- Regarding his use of baddie: he briefly explains how he tends to adopt the language of the site he is at like he uses Indy when he's here which he doesn't use anywhere else. Otherwise he said he skimmed the posts about his use of baddie and it was pointless so he's going to ignore it. I liked this answer. I thought the whole "baddie" thing was a tempest in a teapot and he didn't spend any time defending or giving it credence. I saw this as a positive. Please argue with me on this if you see it differently.

- Notes that he normally hates Day 1s and that holds here especially since he really doesn't know many people.

- At this point he answers Nanook's question about the case on Radish by saying he thinks his posts have been deemed "fake". Help me out here people, I am not seeing the fakery at all. He seems calm to me, not fake.

- Talks about Dizzy's post about him seeming performative saying he understands why Dizzy would think that and goes on to explain why. He then makes the point that he likes Dizzy's post because it would be easy to pile on at this point but Dizzy is attempting to parse his behavior. Scum would just slip into a vote for him. I like how he doesn't argue with Dizzy about his perception but gives his own explanation, and I like that he differentiates between how Dizzy feels and his method in trying to sort Radish.

- Says pre-ISO ted leans town and Sloonei asks questions instead of helping scum hunt. I agree with the ted assessment. Sloonei's style is to ask questions though I wouldn't expect Radish to know that.

- Offers the opinion that Jack in Inception was trying to play like he is now and in retrospect he was trying to imitate his town meta in that game (Jack was bad in that game). Good insight and may be why I have mixed feelings about Jack.

- ISO's ted and labels him a light green. I won't quote it here but I thought it was a good ISO and agreed with it.

- ISO's Sloonei and comes to the conclusion he doesn't TR him but not ready to vote him either.

- Responds to Dizzy who was responding to Radish's answer to Dizzy's suspicion - is still calm, explains himself but says he understands Dizzy's perception. Still liking his answers to suspicion.

- Like's Dom's limited posts, thinks SVS is cool but doesn't understand all the TRs on her, says TSP has done nothing, what about him? Not afraid to question and voice concerns about people he doesn't know very well.

- Points out Mac's post which was just a copy of JJJ's post on reads. Then finds out JJJ was the original author and votes him because he feels like early on there would be some gray. This is not the way JJJ plays though. He feels like he can make a read if he has a post by someone so basically forces a GTH read on everyone. No gray. I don't know what to make of Radish seeing Mac's post but not Jay's. Did this strike people as suspicious in some way?

- In his last post he says: "What people are interpreting as flailing is just me knowing no one and nothing and looking for angles people haven't considered yet. I had nothing to add to the nutella/Jack debate and didn't feel inclined to reread it all. (I also shaded nute way before anyone else did, and expressed my read of Jack from limited meta.)" I have to say I don't see the flailing at all as I go through his posts.

~yadda yadda, skipping a bunch up to more recent posts~

juliets, I just find myself asking questions of her play, which is a lot of asking questions. Sometimes (like in the exchange I quoted) it looks like she’s looking for someone to tell her how to feel so that she can take cover under the thoughts of others, but now I’m getting kinda tinfoilly. I would lean scum I think all the same.

Re: Tony, see the post Dizzy made that I quoted.

Colin, see Epi's post about me earlier this game. He was complaining because he thought I wasn't asking questions. I ask a lot of questions because that's how I process information. Also, I look at all sides of things and try to weigh all the evidence before I vote for someone and that drives questions. In RL people make fun of me for asking so many, or get annoyed by me at times (mostly bosses who think I don't know my place, lol). I'm not interested in taking cover in the thoughts of others. Have you seen me do that this game? How much easier do you think it would have been for me to just agree with the majority of people about Master Radishes instead of standing up for what I believed? Have you not seen me ask a lot of questions in other games you have played with me?

So, so far I am too nice, I don't ask enough questions, and I ask too many questions, lol.

God, am I going to have to choose between MR who I've had a town read on for 2 days or Mac who I don't see as scum at this time? This is impossible.

I skipped a bunch here, because I feel the overarching theme is clear. juliets was Radish's most vocal defender. In the end she voted him over Mac. We're left to decide whether she was wrong or standing up for a teammate. My intuition leans strongly toward the former. I have my doubts that juliets would elect a strategy of vocal defense for a teammate who was getting hounded (both in words and in polls) throughout the first two day phases. She looks like she is speaking her mind and ended up being mistaken. I cannot wholly preclude her from being a teammate, but I can say that I don't think she is a teammate.

Compatibility: "Technical" / Low

~~~

I'm skipping Mac for now and taking care of some lower post counts.

~~~

Michelle

Spoiler: show

Some banters itt on page 6

Noticing a TR for me from Dizzy, and I prefere to take it as such because in a multiball with 3rd parts it's harder to think me for town core as being pockety.

Nutella wanting a Dizzy vs Sloonei fight noted. What if it's between 2 townies @Nutella ? It would be a beneficial one?

Nanook and Master Radishes giving me some odd vibes, it may be nothing.

I think I like Sloonei, but I don't remember why now.

maybe you can dig in memories?

This is two posts from SVS now that have felt like they could be written by a scum. Not that they are, just that they could be.

I certainly don't have a mindmeld with Radishes this game

geez the "baddie" discussion on pg 8, such nitpicky thingy

Independent of all this: how do we all feel about master radishes?

I am not impressed until now. And on Inception team I was.

Radish has made a decent number of posts and none of them have inspired any feeling in me, so that's a net negative.

Kind of my idea better explained

[VOTE: Master Radishes] aubergine

He left the game long ago and didn't give me the villagery feeling he had in the inception game. I know he was 3rd part, but an independent can have towny posts easier than mafia.

Wait, it's Night but we're posting? Is that a thing here?

I found this as a town help and hard to face when i was scum. Because sharing ideas itt instead using a notebook and interacting overnight is strenghtening town's bonds.

I will come back in my morning, in 5-6 hours

ok @Sig got it thanks for the infos. bbl

plan for the rest of night is to Iso Radishes, Jack and to read as much as I can and share my ideas and feelings.

~snip~

I'd put Colinis in scum pile for unexplained TMIstic reads i've coloured in cyan and maybe the mention of Epi as the last, when Epi is usually a wild town force no matter how many posts he has. I think this post looks the worst for Colinis.

Colinis says he sniffed out Radishes in the start of Inception game and this may be true but I won't go dig for it. Is this game we have to search if the guy is scum and the simple fact he was counterwagon to a harmless 3rd part who could be a town mislynch easy makes me want to reread Radishes' posts.

~snip~

How convinced is everyone that Nanook came back in green slot?

I'm letting this sit in the back of my mind. I do feel Nook's playing a bit differently, but there could be a few reasons for that. Also, despite this being my third game with him, we've not played more than, I think, 3 or 4 rounds together due to our various demises.

I understand. Thanks for answering

Michelle hasn't posted in the last 24 hours, so keep that in mind for context. I think she looks okay for the most part here. My only gripe comes with her comment about Colin toward the end of the spoiler where she converted suspicion of him into a reason to reassess Radish. I mitigate that a bit considering Colin was talking about Michelle herself in that stuff, so there's a personal element.

Compability: Minor

~~~

Nanook the sequel

Spoiler: show

Radishes is a great TK if he’s scum, it blows the game pretty open.

If he’s town it kinda fucks us tho.

I’m not convinced enough to fight either way tbh

The other thing that makes me feel OK about a mac TK is that we have actual battle lines over it, people are invested on both sides, as opposed to radishes where we have a few people invested in killing him and everyone else seemingly kind of shrugging and going “eh, idk, maybe?”

And I tend to think that in a game like this a polarized TK is more likely to lead to scum than one where the strongest defense against it amounts to a half hearted “idk he’s kinda null.”

Of course I'm playing differently, I'm not planning to explode at the end of the day lol

Funny how that sort of thing changes a person.

I feel like Mickey Mantle--if I'd known I was going to be alive this long, I would've taken better care of myself

If radishes is scum I supported this the whole time.

If he flips town then I’m gonna say I told you so.

I don’t even think radishes is a bad kill, I just don’t understand why we aren’t killing mac tbh

Wet fart. None of that makes them incompatible.

Compatibility: Decent

[JaggedJimmyJay]

It's like the game shut down for an hour so I could have center stage. I'm so important.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Excuse me compare that to what I said about him D1 and tell me it’s not the exact same mindset

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Or at least pretend to acknowledge it

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Also, I supported it the whole time

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Excuse me compare that to what I said about him D1 and tell me it’s not the exact same mindset

I completely ignored everything from your other body. If you feel something is relevant, bring it out and talk about it.

[Jackofhearts2005]

To clarify, that was more of a hypothetical thought in answer to the question of “why would scum Mac do that.”

I currently do not think Mac and Radish were teamed and even though it doesn’t change my read on Mac in a vacuum, it does mean the likelihood of Mac being scum period was cut in half. I’m more likely to vote Sabie or GMan (who I agree looks really yucky with that Sloonei/Radish comment) than Mac at this point.

Yea multiball.

[TonyStarkPrime]

It's like the game shut down for an hour so I could have center stage. I'm so important.

I was waiting til you finished

[JaggedJimmyJay]

It's like the game shut down for an hour so I could have center stage. I'm so important.

I was waiting til you finished

Please don't.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Also, I supported it the whole time

Lol. He’s gotcha there, Jay.

[Dyslexicon]

Hello. I'm not all caught up, but there's still some things I want to comment on.

[TonyStarkPrime]

It's like the game shut down for an hour so I could have center stage. I'm so important.

I was waiting til you finished

Please don't.

I wanted to see what you said about meeeee

[Dyslexicon]

This game has been so hard for me to follow It takes me at least a half hour to catch up on reading everything after I leave and come back. I don't know why me voting for nutella who did not flip town and mac who is not confirmed town must mean I'm bad. I voted for mac because I thought his gameplay matched his other mafia gameplay before. We still don't know that mac isn't bad. I can see why people think I'm not playing well this game and that's a fair assessment because I'm having a hard time keeping up and making reads there is so much going on. So yeah I am trying my best and I always think it's better to be honest and to at least try to put my vote somewhere that I think makes sense than to make up fake reads or not vote at all. People always think I'm scummy because my posts are weird and my gameplay style doesn't make sense to them.

Sabie is 100% teamed with Radish.

This post is so guilty.
She says she doesn't know why her voting Nut who was 3p and Mac who hasn't flip makes her bad, ven though it's 1) obvious 2) been explained and talked a lot about, so it should be really freaking clear. I don't buy for a second that Sabie has no idea why people think she's teamed with Radish. I even thought so before Radish flipped.
She is probably truthful in her suspicion on Mac, but that doesn't make her town.
The rest of the post is excuses and how people always think she's scummy because of her "weird posts and gameplay".
To this I say:

[Dyslexicon]

Now that I know my reads and takes have been pretty good, I will try to be more confident. Scum should NK me soon. I like that. =)

[JaggedJimmyJay]

It's like the game shut down for an hour so I could have center stage. I'm so important.

I was waiting til you finished

Please don't.

I wanted to see what you said about meeeee

I believe that. It must be very exciting to wait for an analysis from JaggedJimmyJay. But that doesn't stop you from doing things.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

S~V~S

Spoiler: show

LOL, no but I love our Turnip, he's one of my faves so that would put you in good company. But alas, you are kind of a grey radish so far.

You have not made much of an impression on me either way, you have not said much if anything on topic, but this post tells me you certainly are aggressive, and I like that.

So tell me, now that you are posting on topic, what about my posts make you think I'm bad?

Linki @Sloonei i, good to know. It felt to me like youwere using him to appear like standard Sloonei, but it's been a while for me, and it's only Zero.

LOL, no but I love our Turnip, he's one of my faves so that would put you in good company. But alas, you are kind of a grey radish so far.

You have not made much of an impression on me either way, you have not said much if anything on topic, but this post tells me you certainly are aggressive, and I like that.

So tell me, now that you are posting on topic, what about my posts make you think I'm bad?

Linki @Sloonei i, good to know. It felt to me like youwere using him to appear like standard Sloonei, but it's been a while for me, and it's only Zero.

Okay, one more serious-sorta post then I'm going to bed.

Your posts sound like they could have been written by a baddie. E.g. over-explaining thoughts, suggesting what scum are going to try to do as a result of mechanics x, trying to list nearly everyone (even those that haven't checked in)...all traits I see scum do/do myself when scum.

So you go in my pink pile. It's too early to have proper red reads but your posts have, twice now, pinged me.

I'm just getting started, I will probably post some amazing walls o'text this game, I haven't played in a year and I'm having fun! I always over explain; irl, too. What can I say, I'm chatty. And in my over explaining post, I talked about how I thought discussing reads was important this game, and why. And then I gave my reads, since I said it was, imo, important. But I get your points. Plus people who don't know me always think I'm bad. I scouted out a few sites in the early days of this site, and when I played in different cultures, I almost always got lynched Day One.

Mm, I like talking about myself. Make me do it more.

You said "baddie" earlier. That is the term the founders of this forum used (and some still do) but I have not heard it much outside of us. I am curious to know where you played as well.

SVS asking Radishes where he picked up the word “baddie” should not be made into a thing, please.

This ^^

I didn't think it was a slip. I found it intriguing that someone not from my home forum said "baddie", and since people were asking him about his background, I chimed in. I wasn't trying to imply he made a slip.

Independent of all this: how do we all feel about master radishes?

As I said earlier, he was in my grey area, I had no opinion on him since he had no on topic posts unti he said I pinged him. When I asked why, his explanation made sense and it nudged him out of grey into a greyish mossy green. That hasn't really changed.

You've been saying this all game and haven't even hinted at a reason why. Why?

Well, strike the beginning of the game, cause I hadn't even read your posts. But I don't really remember much from your posts tbh. So maybe a better question is - what does your reads look like at this point?

Jack, SVS, juliets, sig are town.
nutella and ted are a tier below but still town. I think I feel good about Michelle too.
I tend to trust Jay out of the gate because we think along similar lines. If I find myself disagreeing with him down the road, he becomes a suspect.
Radishes is the only solid suspect that I have right now. I would like to branch out from that, but I'm lacking energy.

I have expressed most of these reads prior to now.

Obvs, I don't see eye to eye with you on Chuck, I agree re Jules and sig, though. I think nutella is civ, too. I had a good feel about Michelle, but I haven't reread her yet. Last time I saw Jay bad, he was VERY different to how he is here, so I am still getting a feel for him.

I would be OK with a Radish lynch as well, Nanooks reaction to that whole thing last night was too strong, I don't think I buy that he was an outraged bystander. I don't understand Ted or Dyslexicons game yet.

Do you have an opinion on Chuck? He has been really blendy and hasn't said much of substance. But after last GOC when i hounded him and he was civ, I don't much trust my gut on Chuck. He was also on my original "not a civ" list, as was G Man. I would like to hear more from them, I would like to hear from Tranq at all.

I just reread Dom, and he has some content going, not sure why he is taking votes?

SVS seems like a really cool person.

But I don't get why I've seen a number of TRs on her.

Thank You!
What is a "TR"? Town read? Probably becasue my town game is a lot weirder than my bad game, I'm a pretty good baddie, and I tend to put more effort into a bad game so I'm smoother and less likely to say stupid shit. I play a civ game mostly solely on aggression, gut and tone. So I jup to alot of conclusions and backpedal more. At least this is my opinion of my game, results may vary based on the test audience.

And Linki is "linkitis" it means someone posted something relevant to what a person is posting while they were composing their post, so it's an acknowledgment that you say their post. It came from Lostpedia, I forget who coined it.

All of the no posts are grey, and everyone else had posted when he made that, I think. I would be more likely to suspect him if he had not made one.

But there are sub-10 posters with no content who he's ranking too. I don't think a townie tends to worry about including everyone like that.

I think it's a GTH list, you have to make a snap judgment. That's why the only grays are people who have not posted.

This push towards Jay for Jay being Jay feels off to me, not unlike pushing towards Sloonei for being Sloonei. You have not played with me, but you have played with them, yes?

I would be OK with a Radish lynch as well, Nanooks reaction to that whole thing last night was too strong, I don't think I buy that he was an outraged bystander. I don't understand Ted or Dyslexicons game yet.

Does this mean you think Nanook is teamed with Radish?
What does it mean that you don't understand my game (or Ted's game)? Can you be more specific?

Yes, that is what I am saying. You put me at the bottom of your rainbow earlier, you must have read my posts. Nanooks outburst felt to me like frustrated baddie chatroom anger spilling into the thread, I said pretty much this last night and more clearly this AM. But i am not as sure of their games so I was going to watch and see. I think he got too angry about a person not himself getting poked for something he felt was stupid. Annoyed, sure, but he seemed actively angry. I could be wrong, but this was how I felt.

And your game, and Teds, as well, your mindset, how you look at things. All these votes you make for no real reason and keep changing them, for instance. I am not sure what the point of that is, although I am sure there is one. I don't quite understand your process. Teds reasoning for what he does and thinks seems different enough to my own that I don't quite "feel" him yet. I am an intuitive player, I go by tone and feel, and sometimes I have to watch a person before I get a feel for them. People tend to think I am bad before they get to know me and my game, and that is frustrating as hell, so i try not to do that to other people if I can avoid it. Different =/= bad, so i will often reserve judgment if I don't grasp a persons motivations and/or actions.

4. Not be Canadian. (No offense Canadians. )

sig bout to catch a modkill

I was thinking the same thing.

I still think I see civ nutella. In any case I trust her more than Jack so his read on her is irrelevant to me. Like baddies never make faux reads on civvies?

I felt Radishes was flailing a bit trying to find suspicions. Which, to be fair, may just be unfamiliarity with much of the player base. But his whole game felt that way. I could move to Radishes, but I am not voting nutella.

[VOTE: Radishes] aubergine

Hi TH

@S~V~S I think I asked you why you asked Radish about the word "baddie" when you didn't think it was a slip or anything AI? Were you just curious in general or something?

I was curious about where he had played, and who he played with, since I had never run into another community that used the word baddie, and I posted that remark at the tail end of a conversation where someone (Jay? Sloonei?) had been questioning Radishes about his experience.

Right after I posted it, Nanook pushed back at it, and it felt like he was implying stupidity, so I left the thread for a bit. When I came back, I saw sig running with it and then Sloonei telling him to back off, so I posted basically the above, that I was not trying to imply it was a slip. Which I was not.


Jackofhearts2005

In that post where you talk about my vote, are you talking about my Radishes vote? I made a few posts well before I voted him discussing why I suspected him, so not sure what you are on about?

...(Dizzy doesn't like me doing a Thing, so I'll expand, of course.)

Yeah, I asked who I should look at. Sometimes scum do that. Sometimes so do townies.

I've been trying not to play the 'I'm busy' card too hard because I'll end up a broken record, but I'm busy. I've not closely read everything. I'm going to be a follower this game, not a leader. Most of the D1 talking points (baddie-gate, for example) were not that worthwhile and by the time I was online they were over anyway, so I didn't bother to delve into them again. If I want to contribute to helping the town, I've got to do something.


The good news is now we have info, so I can play my own game.

How do you plan to use the information we’ve gained?

We know Nutella was not mafia. We know that mafia (of either team) are going to, therefore, gleefully nudge a mislynch. There will be scum on her wagon somewhere.

But that would have been the case if she were bad as well. With two bad teams the baddies are trying to lynch other team baddies for the cred. If anything the baddies want to avoid lynching civs with two teams, they let the civvies cannibalize themselves.

But the baddies don't know who the civs are either. (There, I said 'civs'.)

So we say Scum Team A knows nutella is not one of them. Therefore they have no issue seeing her go. There were only three proper wagons - nute, Jack, me - and Jack's went stale and died off. Members of Scum Team A, doing the usual thing, will 'spread out' a bit. They won't coordinate exactly, but the odds of at least one of them slipping into an easy vote are high. (And, equally likely, at least one of my voters is from Scum Team A as well, regardless of what you consider my own alignment to be.)


Basically, I'm playing the odds/going off many years' experience. Nutella had at least one scum voter on her somewhere.

Maybe in the final tally, but this far before EOD nah. It's possible, but lots of people had not voted and there were lots of tangent voters still.I

Linki, I think she had 5 or 6.
Link I @ Dys, and it pints me that you asked after saying you liked the post where I discussed it lol

~snip~

When I think back to my baddie games (and it's been a while, the last game I played I was civ), what I recall seeing the most on Day One in games with multiple baddie groups was lots of tangent voting unless you were like 99% sure one of the forming wagons was an opposing baddie. I tend to look hardest at tangent voters on Day One, people who were the only vote for a person. It's an easy way to skirt responsibility and have to answer for your vote if a civ is lynched, to be involved without actually being involved.

The singleton voters were TSP, sprityo, Radishes (lol @ whoever called him "Badishes") and sig. Of those four, sig had been making the case for Nanook pretty consistently, and was actively trying to form a wagon. The other three did not look much like they were trying to form wagons.

Of the three, TSP and sprit also voted for "Vanilla" in the Zero poll, and I am positive there were poll rewards. I think it is probable that some folks may have had info about what might benefit them. As an aside, it is notable that the Vanilla voters, with the exception of G Man, probably did not have much if any experience with Zero polls like this.

So I am going to focus on reading those 2 people, and also add in G Man, a Vanilla Voter, who was also a non voter. I think Badishes has enough people looking at him

Again, this is all less valid than it may have been had the poll gone to the end, they may have been placeholder votes, I may be silly fixating on the zero poll, etc. While I get Nanooks "use it or lose it" approach, I wish he had waited until Day Two (although he quite possibly would have taken me, given his "kill SVS with fire" remark, lol) so meh.

So are you saying all nutella votersa re civs, or are you just tunneling me and going to argue with my point no matter what? I don't get this resistance to what is a fairly straightforward analysis.

It doesn't matter what would have happened after. Mafia are mafia throughout the round, and will act as such throughout the round.

The decade thing was tongue in cheek.

No not tunnelling; I think it's an over analysis designed to look like you're hunting. I also think that what is bothering me it that you are talking about this as if it is a fact, an undisputable truth, that baddies will act or vote in a certain way. If that were the case, this game would be lame and we would have stopped playing it years ago. We would have been bored to tears with these predictable baddies that can't resist voting 4th on wagons.

Sleep tight!

linki, Hi Dragomir! Happy reading!

Large post containing binary "GTH" reads, Radish is red and gets a vote

My gut is telling me to vote Jack.

Your gut on me sucks.

Why would you even suspect me?

I'll provide ample reasons in due time.

Well you had best start, it doesn'tlook like your have that much time, lol.

G-Man I skimmed your post and you made some stuff up about my game, I am disappoint. I talk too much regardless of alignment

Master Radishes I skimmed over your post where you say I am "clinging" to your wagon (orsomething to that effect online at Target, why am I so pathetic?) and that is not true, I switched my vote off of you within an hour or so of getting online earlier.

Jeez, you people.

g-man and radishes are partners.

This ^^^

S~V~S was one of the more consistent anti-Radish voices in the game. I don't get a distancing impression from this, and that primarily stems from Radish's own stuff in these interactions. He seemed a bit cranky in an assertion that she was tunneling him. I don't think she sounds insincere or motivated by some agenda beyond lynching a suspect.

Compatibility: Low

~~~

sabie12

Spoiler: show

~snip~

I don't know master radishes I'm not familiar with them and I missed where the case began on them. I saw some people saying it had to do with their usage of certain terms?

~snip~

Good to see sloonei seems back to his usual self. Just has to start asking more questions and have more long ISO posts and we got the old sloonei back. (Glad you're feeling better) good post on radishes I'm not familiar with them and they don't seem to be familiar with a lot of people here either so that's a good point.

So I know you're not super familiar with me. IRL I work a somewhat stressful emotionally draining job so my lack of posting sometimes just is related to my not being able to. I think my way of going about things is different than others so a lot of times my playstyle comes off as scummy to people who don't know me that well. I used to get upset and defensive about it but I've been trying not to be like that anymore. I just say what I'm thinking about things and give my honest opinions. I dont like to make up reads if its not how I feel. With radishes I'll be honest in saying I am not good at reading people who I've never met before and I don't have a frame of reference to read them. I don't feel particularly strong either way about them. In all my circuits therealet was new and everyone was aggressively going after them and I ended up following and then they ended up being civ and I felt bad about that. This game has been hard because it's so big and you cant even do a lot of vote analysis with the day ending early and no one was night killed. So I've been focusing on things that make sense to me and trying to get reads on people I feel like I can read. My playstyle seems weird to people but it works for me and that's all I can do.

There's not much here. One emerging theme is that when sabie mentioned Radish, it came amid mentions of various other players -- hence the two snips up there. She made no attempt to produce a read either way; that's not great given that he was a major wagon both days (and she voted for the counterwagon both days). When she talks about Radish it looks a lot like she doesn't want to talk about Radish.

Compatibility: High

~~~

sig

Spoiler: show

New poll.

Favourite spread:

-Strawberry jam
-Marmalade
-Peanut Butter
-Marmite
-Vegemite

...think that covers it.

Those last two......

Can anyone give me a run down of Radishes Meta?

Yeah who could possibly use the word baddie

I actually loved svs question until she made it green.

I felt like Nanook was making fun of it,like it was a stupid question

He was, probably since he's scum buddy with radish.

Having said that i did like radish's post, but didn't catch the baddie thing until svs said it.

Like am I crazy here or is this a potential slip.

MacDougall
Epignosis

sig, what are you saying is a slip?

I was saying radish using term baddie could ne a slip that's he has BTSC with an older player who uses term

So nanook was the earliest wne most aggressive defender of Radish. I plan to reread that entire section but I'd say SVS and sloonie look fine from it. In fact I'd give them points sloonie for his defense or svs and svs for asking the question then clarifying when I suggest it was a slip.

If she was mafia i think shed probably push pr at least not attempt to dissuade my view, unless they're teammates but that's alot of ifs.

Nutella's reaction seemed to be really aggressive overly aggressive. Like there's no reason not to pursue my line of thinking especially when the only other discussion is literally about ice cream flavors.

Tsp, Sprityo, and Epi all seem okay right now also.

I definitely like Epi's interaction with nanook.

Radish's early posts felt a bit fake, but I liked his big self describing post and I'd be hesitant to vote for someone I've never plated with day one.

Dizzy, G-man, Mac, Speed, Radish, and Juliet are my grey reads and people I plan to reread tomorrow.

Also Mac and epi if you read like two more posts youd see radishes realized his mistake and switched to Jay lol.

Under duress when immediately forced to observe it and then lolkekked his vote to a wagon that has 0% chance of ever forming.

Nutella
Jay
Radishes

Teammates.

Throw Nanook in there and we may have a team.

[VOTE: Nutella] aubergine

I'd like to get this a big closer to Radish and see Nutella's reaction here.

I'd still rather lynch nanook, but with 3 major wagons my vote is wasted on him right now.

Also Mac and epi if you read like two more posts youd see radishes realized his mistake and switched to Jay lol.

Under duress when immediately forced to observe it and then lolkekked his vote to a wagon that has 0% chance of ever forming.

Nutella
Jay
Radishes

Teammates.

Throw Nanook in there and we may have a team.

Do tell

I've already laid out why I think Nanook is mafia. Basically in line with Jack's view on Nutella. I've played 3 games with him was mafia in all 3 and I called him out in all 3 early on. (3rd ended on day 2 so meh) I see the same behavior in this game as last 3.

Now given 2 mafia teams they might not be on same team, but I'd definitely link Radish to Nanook.

Okay gang, so what if we take a step back?

We have two major wagons going, with most of the players on them which isn't really something I personally like this early in the game.

Who outside of Jack, Nutella, and Radish looks the worst/could be a baddie?

I'm obviously gonna say we should go with Nanook.

But, I'm open to other ideas.

Nobody's taking me seriously or are to busy with this Jack/Nutella thing

Sig, who is Nanook's teammate? Do you think Radish/Nanook is too obvious? Refering to Nanook's big reaction to your questioning into the baddie thing. Also Nanook's vote on Nut above Radish not long ago.

I think Nanook/Radish is highly possible, but not a given.

His reaction to the not real slip did add more fuel to my Nanook fire, the vote could go either way. I think there are legitimate reasons to vote for either wagon right now so that may be moot. I'd need one to flip before I'd want to argue vote spread.

However, My read of Nanook is independent of Radish

[VOTE: Nanook] aubergine

I'll potentially bite the bullet to stop a tie if it comes down to it, but like I've been saying he's my number one choice and just generally meh on Nutella/Jack.

I plan to read over Radish when I have time to form a more cohesive opinion. He does seem blendy/not super active and his Nanook connection troubles me.

I'd say the nutella voters are overall a wash/NAI.

There were probably at least 2 mafia members there and some on radish, but with her flipping indy I don't think we can gauge to much.

The person who looks the most meh from nutella is jack in my opinion but I do want to see nutella's thoughts here before I comment more on it.

It's actually really funny that radishes is looking for scum in the Nutella wagon when he got just as many votes to be lynched

That struck me as odd also. I guess it removes the potential bias/OMGUS, but personally I'd look at my own wagon first especially it I was a civ.

This seems kinda like a more mafiaish thing so I'd like an explanation for why he started that way

Holy shit.

Here’s what’s up:
Uhh
Nothing it’s been really slow the large post count disguises this fact

So absolutely nothing of work has occurred?

I'd read the jack/nutella stuff maybe even though we know results idk what page it started on but that's where alot of people weighted in.

People are pretty scattered with reads, radish was a top suspect so maybe read him over as well.

I'd also suggest reading N1 onward for sure.

~snip Day of Silence Post~

linki: Since I started this looks like Radish has posted some more, if he keeps giving reads he'd move down on my list probably. Really want the lurkers/backburners to give some solids thought this phase.

~snip~

I find sig's read on Radish to be difficult to follow. In the early stages it is unclear to what degree he suspected Radish independent of his burning desire to murder the first Nanook -- he often mentioned the two in concert. He was one-posted on Day 2 and thus omitted from any continuing dialogue therein. He made one brief remark about Radish in his Big Post; it was vague. I don't feel as though they're incompatible.

Compatibility: Decent

[Dyslexicon]

Fine guess I'll iso him and build a case

Sig, this is not how you build a case. You don't ISO someone in order to built a case. You'll only get conformation bias. =p You ISO someone to see how you feel with an open mind. I mean, you do you, but I'm just saying. Also I don't believe you've been paying attention to my posts. You have not interacted with me much. You clearly don't know the first thing about my game/meta in general. I mean, it's fine that you have a whatever paranoia, that happens. I will unlikely entertain any case on me. I can address what you said was "odd" about my D2 lynch: At the end of the day I was sitting on the couch with my bf, pretending not to play mafia, so I was not all the way there. I didn't know what to do and was full of doubt, and I felt a number of lynches could be good and a couple bad. Neither Mac nor Radish felt like a bad lynch to me. But also I didn't fucking know. I'm a ball of doubt a lot, and this especially intensifies near EoD (especially if it's D1 or as in this case, no info from a mafia lynch). That is just how I am.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I have no idea what "Elongated Man" is, but that's hilarious

[Dyslexicon]

Speaking of, I will do that ISO of SVS some time, with an open mind.
But I recall one thing that bothered me in the first place. It was how when she asked Radish about the "baddie" word, and Sig ran away with it, she said that she didn't think it was a slip at all. And it was really strange to me then why she bothered to ask. I guess she was just "making conversation", but that also seems kind of weird to me. Also, iirc, she kind of disappeared a bit, or at least let Sig take over after she brought it up. It just left me feel one type of way.

SVS probably think I'm like full on scum reading her, for all the "shade" I'm throwing. But that's really not the case. There's just something in the back of my mind that irks me.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Excuse me compare that to what I said about him D1 and tell me it’s not the exact same mindset

I completely ignored everything from your other body. If you feel something is relevant, bring it out and talk about it.

I mean it seems relevant to compare my D1 approach to radishes to my D2 approach, given that you’re looking for a partner and I’m confirmed not D1 partners. But hey, what be I know.

[TonyStarkPrime]

It's like the game shut down for an hour so I could have center stage. I'm so important.

I was waiting til you finished

Please don't.

I wanted to see what you said about meeeee

I believe that. It must be very exciting to wait for an analysis from JaggedJimmyJay. But that doesn't stop you from doing things.

I think this entire project is counterproductive.
So I guess I should be doing something else.

[TonyStarkPrime]

SVS is scum.
Change my mind.

[Dyslexicon]

I will read Raishes ISO, but I will not be posting walls about it. No shade lol.

[Dyslexicon]

SVS is scum.
Change my mind.

Gasoline for the fire in the back of my head

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Speaking of, I will do that ISO of SVS some time, with an open mind.
But I recall one thing that bothered me in the first place. It was how when she asked Radish about the "baddie" word, and Sig ran away with it, she said that she didn't think it was a slip at all. And it was really strange to me then why she bothered to ask. I guess she was just "making conversation", but that also seems kind of weird to me. Also, iirc, she kind of disappeared a bit, or at least let Sig take over after she brought it up. It just left me feel one type of way.

I am inclined to view that favorably for S~V~S. She is right that the "baddie" and "civ" terminology is rare outside The Syndicate, and I am not surprised she took interest in it. That she wasn't referring to a "slip" though means to me that it really was just conversation. Something like that could easily be viewed as slippy, and I have to think that a teammate of Radish is cognizant of that before casting a spotlight on it.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Excuse me compare that to what I said about him D1 and tell me it’s not the exact same mindset

I completely ignored everything from your other body. If you feel something is relevant, bring it out and talk about it.

I mean it seems relevant to compare my D1 approach to radishes to my D2 approach, given that you’re looking for a partner and I’m confirmed not D1 partners. But hey, what be I know.

You can be sarcastic or you can answer my call to bring it out and talk about it.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I think this entire project is counterproductive.
So I guess I should be doing something else.

eh?

[Dyslexicon]

Mafia reads of sabie are exxagerated, she doesn't feel that suspicious

This is suspicious as fuck if sabie is somehow town though. And maybe in any case.

[Dyslexicon]

I am inclined to view that favorably for S~V~S. She is right that the "baddie" and "civ" terminology is rare outside The Syndicate, and I am not surprised she took interest in it. That she wasn't referring to a "slip" though means to me that it really was just conversation. Something like that could easily be viewed as slippy, and I have to think that a teammate of Radish is cognizant of that before casting a spotlight on it.

I'm not thinking teammate though, but she could be on the other team. Cause in my head it was a bit "Oh no - I wouldn't dare to imply that someone was scum", and my general feeling is that she hasn't been going very hard at anyone really all game. BUT, again, I will leave it alone until I have the time to go through her whole ISO and see how I feel.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I am inclined to view that favorably for S~V~S. She is right that the "baddie" and "civ" terminology is rare outside The Syndicate, and I am not surprised she took interest in it. That she wasn't referring to a "slip" though means to me that it really was just conversation. Something like that could easily be viewed as slippy, and I have to think that a teammate of Radish is cognizant of that before casting a spotlight on it.

I'm not thinking teammate though, but she could be on the other team. Cause in my head it was a bit "Oh no - I wouldn't dare to imply that someone was scum", and my general feeling is that she hasn't been going very hard at anyone really all game. BUT, again, I will leave it alone until I have the time to go through her whole ISO and see how I feel.

I see. I will leave her to answer this before I do.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I am inclined to view that favorably for S~V~S. She is right that the "baddie" and "civ" terminology is rare outside The Syndicate, and I am not surprised she took interest in it. That she wasn't referring to a "slip" though means to me that it really was just conversation. Something like that could easily be viewed as slippy, and I have to think that a teammate of Radish is cognizant of that before casting a spotlight on it.

I'm not thinking teammate though, but she could be on the other team. Cause in my head it was a bit "Oh no - I wouldn't dare to imply that someone was scum", and my general feeling is that she hasn't been going very hard at anyone really all game. BUT, again, I will leave it alone until I have the time to go through her whole ISO and see how I feel.

I see. I will leave her to answer this before I do.

[mention]S~V~S[/mention]

[S~V~S]

Speaking of, I will do that ISO of SVS some time, with an open mind.
But I recall one thing that bothered me in the first place. It was how when she asked Radish about the "baddie" word, and Sig ran away with it, she said that she didn't think it was a slip at all. And it was really strange to me then why she bothered to ask. I guess she was just "making conversation", but that also seems kind of weird to me. Also, iirc, she kind of disappeared a bit, or at least let Sig take over after she brought it up. It just left me feel one type of way.

SVS probably think I'm like full on scum reading her, for all the "shade" I'm throwing. But that's really not the case. There's just something in the back of my mind that irks me.

I have repeatedly said, both to you and radishes, that right before I said it someone was quizzing radishes on his mafia background, where he played, etc. So I chimed in since I was curious where he had heard this term.

This post was two posts before mine.

Can anyone give me a run down of Radishes Meta?

I have never played with Radishes. He played in Inception, and apparently was MU tournament finalist a hundred years ago with jay. So my assumption is he knows the ropes.

@Master Radishes what can you tell us about your approach to mafia games?

I'm really the wrong person to say. In my mind I'm like a chimera, made up of many different mafia personas I can whip out as need be. My friends who play the most with me will laugh in my face and say differently.

Where have you played and what types of games are you used to, in terms of setup, style, pace, etc.?

[S~V~S]

Slooneis post jogged my memory so I asked it. Even if this had not been thecase, I really fail to see how asking someone this question makes *ME* bad.

[S~V~S]

See ya, I'm gonna go watch TV

[Dyslexicon]

Oh, don’t feel too bad. I’m still the knucklehead who voted ‘yes.’

So who should I target tonight? I’m not dead yet, after all.

Just remember that on the Radish-team, they have a switcher. So targeting good suspects there is definitely a risk. Well, you know what I mean.

This goes for everyone, really. Just something to keep in mind.

[sig]

Fine guess I'll iso him and build a case

Sig, this is not how you build a case. You don't ISO someone in order to built a case. You'll only get conformation bias. =p You ISO someone to see how you feel with an open mind. I mean, you do you, but I'm just saying. Also I don't believe you've been paying attention to my posts. You have not interacted with me much. You clearly don't know the first thing about my game/meta in general. I mean, it's fine that you have a whatever paranoia, that happens. I will unlikely entertain any case on me. I can address what you said was "odd" about my D2 lynch: At the end of the day I was sitting on the couch with my bf, pretending not to play mafia, so I was not all the way there. I didn't know what to do and was full of doubt, and I felt a number of lynches could be good and a couple bad. Neither Mac nor Radish felt like a bad lynch to me. But also I didn't fucking know. I'm a ball of doubt a lot, and this especially intensifies near EoD (especially if it's D1 or as in this case, no info from a mafia lynch). That is just how I am.

I'm generally a tone reader early game. That's how I roll for first phase or so. Your playstyle seems less genuine this game.

I may be the only one seeing it and wildly off, but that's why I plan to do an ISO.

Also, that's totally how you build a case it's worked for me for like hmmm 5+ years? God I feel so old

[Dyslexicon]

Slooneis post jogged my memory so I asked it. Even if this had not been thecase, I really fail to see how asking someone this question makes *ME* bad.

Ok. That is relevant, yes. I will take into account that the question was not out of the blue. I had not retained this information.

[Dyslexicon]

Suit yourself, Sig.

[sig]

Oh, don’t feel too bad. I’m still the knucklehead who voted ‘yes.’

So who should I target tonight? I’m not dead yet, after all.

Just remember that on the Radish-team, they have a switcher. So targeting good suspects there is definitely a risk. Well, you know what I mean.

This goes for everyone, really. Just something to keep in mind.

If it's an info role any target gets info, you'd also I assume know you were switched which gives alot of info.

I would suggest maybe avoiding vig shots until they get rooted out, but that's up to the player and risk vs reward.

[sig]

Suit yourself, Sig.

I will, some of my early gut reads have to be right this game.

[sig]

Watch nanook actually be bad this time around and he's over in one of the chats lolz at me for going after him the wrong phase.