Champions 2019 - Crisis on The Syndicate [GAME OVER]

[speedchuck]

Hot take: Self-voting should literally not be allowed in mafia games.

[speedchuck]

I would, right now, vote sig, TH, Mac, and anyone who has appealed to emotion. I would murder the emotion right out of this game.

[juliets]

Mac is self voting? Idgi. Does anyone remember him doing this before in a game?

[speedchuck]

Mac is self voting? Idgi. Does anyone remember him doing this before in a game?

Not sure.

I mean, Sig apparently told him to do so this game. So we should lynch Sig for suggesting it as well.

[nutella]

I think he's just surrendering. Which I believe he'd only do as wolf.

[nutella]

Or rather, sacrificing himself only, so that he doesnt point us to who his teammates are so they can win for him.

[speedchuck]

So we can start with him.

But I have a hit list, and I'm considering putting you on it.

[VOTE: Macdougall] aubergine

[nutella]

By comparison jack your flip on Nutella Day 1 doesn't look natural, it looks designed

I disagree. Hard. I believe mac's progression was way more unnatural. Jack's was based on my content and his smart gut. Mac will argue that his was too, but I don't know how you view his as natural.

[nutella]

I have been calling TH one of my top townreads on gut, but I can't deny they're compatible with mac

[juliets]

Not gonna finish my sig read at the moment because it's time to go to the gym. Be back around 2/2:30 and will finish it.

[nutella]

I have been calling TH one of my top townreads on gut, but I can't deny they're compatible with mac

Aaaand ditto for juliets.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Let’s see what happens if I switch from GMan to [VOTE: Mac] aubergine

[nutella]

Civs don't necessarily need to show progression they're allowed to change their mind. That's what makes it look natural.

Okay so what’s the difference between natural progression that isn’t posted to the thread and unnatural progression that just doesn’t exist?

It's a judgment call

A judgement call based on what? Telepathy?

It’s not on the thread. You can’t call something that doesn’t exist “a natural progression.”

What are you a robot? Humans have a complicated thoughtlife and not every word makes it onto the written page. You read between the lines.

That's how I read jack's progression on me lol. You're being selective in which lines you read in between. Mac's was more sudden and present in the thread imo so less room for that.

[Turnip Head]

I have been calling TH one of my top townreads on gut, but I can't deny they're compatible with mac

Because we're soulmates

[nutella]

[mention]Dyslexicon[/mention] hiiii show us your ghost moves

[Sloonei]

I ISO’d Turnip Head yesterday and came out with a favorable view. I’m unsure why people keep naming him as a possible suspect.

[Sloonei]

I need to take some time this afternoon to do some school things. I’ll try to keep half an eye on this thing, but I won’t be doing big things in here until the evening.

[Jackofhearts2005]

I ISO’d Turnip Head yesterday and came out with a favorable view. I’m unsure why people keep naming him as a possible suspect.

Preflip associative reads.

Rollsafe.jpg

[Sloonei]

I ISO’d Turnip Head yesterday and came out with a favorable view. I’m unsure why people keep naming him as a possible suspect.

Preflip associative reads.

Rollsafe.jpg

Am I not supposed to read people now?

[Jackofhearts2005]

I ISO’d Turnip Head yesterday and came out with a favorable view. I’m unsure why people keep naming him as a possible suspect.

Preflip associative reads.

Rollsafe.jpg

Am I not supposed to read people now?

I...was just asking your question?

[Jackofhearts2005]

*answering

[Sloonei]

Oh. Ignore me again.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Dizzy and Sabie’s ghost posts should probably be ignored game wise tbh, sabie for obvious reasons and dizzy because they didn’t flip. Not worth the wine.

They can still banter with us tho!

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Self voting is typically NAI, and not usually worth reading into unless a player has a (meaningfully large sample size) history of only doing it as one alignment.

[nutella]

Self voting is typically NAI, and not usually worth reading into unless a player has a (meaningfully large sample size) history of only doing it as one alignment.

I'm just going off mac's history of fighting for his life as town. He fights as wolf too sure, but in this case I'd buy that he is tired of how the game has been going for him and figures his best chance at a win is sacrificing himself and letting his teammates go on. (and maybe he figures if he resigns to being lynched we're less likely to figure out who those might be -- though ofc some people are still defending him, but that doesn't make them his teammates)

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I understand the want to kill mac, I don’t super get the swing of attention away from the rabies team (see what I did there?)

You lot play weird

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Self voting is typically NAI, and not usually worth reading into unless a player has a (meaningfully large sample size) history of only doing it as one alignment.

I'm just going off mac's history of fighting for his life as town. He fights as wolf too sure, but in this case I'd buy that he is tired of how the game has been going for him and figures his best chance at a win is sacrificing himself and letting his teammates go on. (and maybe he figures if he resigns to being lynched we're less likely to figure out who those might be -- though ofc some people are still defending him, but that doesn't make them his teammates)

Or he’s town sick of this shit. It’s NAI

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

To be clear I think he’s a wolf, I just don’t think that’s why he’s a wolf

[TonyStarkPrime]

Dizzy and Sabie’s ghost posts should probably be ignored game wise tbh, sabie for obvious reasons and dizzy because they didn’t flip. Not worth the wine.

They can still banter with us tho!

Dizzy can ghost claim win con. Which. I mean. Doesn't help, always claim town?

[TonyStarkPrime]

Okay between the MTG tournament I have to prep for (Sloonei don’t kill me) and the primaries and the fact that Mac maybe surrendering means half of this will be moot, I’ll focus this analysis on a few people: Michelle, Turnip Head, and SVS. Jack is an interesting fourth option here -- he has good Master team scum odds if Mac is town but not otherwise.


SVS: First off, the town read day 1 came from nice reactions to Nanook in the whole Sig spat and being the token “person who hasn’t been around who votes Jack when he claims unlynchable” -- a sort of reverse scum tell. I could see it being orchestrated, but that still means that SVS/ Jack isn’t likely (the part where SVS quotes back the rules is particularly a nice touch). Also voted Radishes over Nutella without being constrained much. So not there. Strongly defended Mac on Day 2 and voted Radishes early and stuck.

Spoiler: show

linki @Dyslexicon I saw that post earlier. I am missing the nuance of that post. I don't think a person has to be a specific role on a team for a different teammate to act on their behalf. If this is not the point, can you spell it out for me?

That is not the point. I'll explain:
Ted says the Mac spewed himself as not a member of the silencing-team, ergo ONE of the mafia teams.
He then concludes this spews Mac as not scum.
But that is not a conclusion you can draw. Even if Ted is right, that just means Mac is not on THAT mafia team. There's still another team. I wonder if this is a slip of mind that Ted is on the other team himself.

Does this make sense?

Ted is basically saying: "[This] proves that Mac is not on Team A which means he's not scum."
And I say:

I'm a bit wary of these slips, cause sometimes it's just bad wording. But still, it may be something.

Can someone (Ted) explain this to me? What I’m getting is also that SVS asks for some explanation here -- that wouldn’t be necessary if Mac were teamed with SVS and were bad. SVS would probably instantly grasp this and take the clear. Alternatively, just a misreading.

Today there has been very little about Mac, but a bit more on G Man. SVS chooses to clear G Man, despite the fact that they had previously been a major proponent for a G Man lynch, based on a quote ATE post. It’s established that G Man as scum is probably on team B and then it wouldn’t make sense for team A SVS to push there.

Conclusion:
Team A: Low
Team B w/ Mac: Medium
Team B w/o Mac: No higher than average
Further Conclusion:
I should move my vote.

[TonyStarkPrime]

If Mac is scum and is giving up, his team is voting for him or soon will be.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Dizzy and Sabie’s ghost posts should probably be ignored game wise tbh, sabie for obvious reasons and dizzy because they didn’t flip. Not worth the wine.

They can still banter with us tho!

Dizzy can ghost claim win con. Which. I mean. Doesn't help, always claim town?

Yeah that changes nothing lol. If they could role claim then sure, but you guys don’t play with those

[TonyStarkPrime]

I understand the want to kill mac, I don’t super get the swing of attention away from the rabies team (see what I did there?)

You lot play weird

We're paying attention. It's just we want everyone to have a fighting chance. Strong sense of honor here.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Apparently!

[TonyStarkPrime]

Dizzy and Sabie’s ghost posts should probably be ignored game wise tbh, sabie for obvious reasons and dizzy because they didn’t flip. Not worth the wine.

They can still banter with us tho!

Dizzy can ghost claim win con. Which. I mean. Doesn't help, always claim town?

Yeah that changes nothing lol. If they could role claim then sure, but you guys don’t play with those

Though we do get legacy reads. We should be able to get pretty far into figuring out what Dizzy's real alignment is based on that information. Though I have a guess -- because I know exactly how I would be using that scum team's power allocation.

[TonyStarkPrime]

Though
It would be pretty obvious to Dys
So the ghost read would have to be stifled
Maybe I'm wrong

[speedchuck]

To be clear I think he’s a wolf, I just don’t think that’s why he’s a wolf

Distinctions like this are scummy.

[Sloonei]

Self voting is typically NAI, and not usually worth reading into unless a player has a (meaningfully large sample size) history of only doing it as one alignment.

I'm just going off mac's history of fighting for his life as town. He fights as wolf too sure, but in this case I'd buy that he is tired of how the game has been going for him and figures his best chance at a win is sacrificing himself and letting his teammates go on. (and maybe he figures if he resigns to being lynched we're less likely to figure out who those might be -- though ofc some people are still defending him, but that doesn't make them his teammates)

There was a recent game (Polka Heist, I think) where Mac was town and someone (it’s not important who, don’t worry about it) was insisting that he was the last remaining bad guy. Mac was very calm about it and didn’t mind being lynched if it meant moving the game forward.

Granted, the context there was much different. That was end-game with only one mafia left against like 7-8 civilians, so a civilian Mac lynch in a reduced POE was not gonna lose us the game. But it was a version of Town Mac who was willing to be sacrificed.
I definitely don’t read “willing to be sacrificed” in his words/actions here. The self-vote looks more like a middle finger than anything else.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

To be clear I think he’s a wolf, I just don’t think that’s why he’s a wolf

Distinctions like this are scummy.

Distinctions like you are scummy

[Sloonei]

To be clear I think he’s a wolf, I just don’t think that’s why he’s a wolf

Distinctions like this are scummy.

Disagree. I say stuff like that all the time.

idk what nanook is talking about here

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

To be clear I think he’s a wolf, I just don’t think that’s why he’s a wolf

Distinctions like this are scummy.

Disagree. I say stuff like that all the time.

idk what nanook is talking about here

I think mac is a wolf, I think self voting is NAI

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I also think anyone hard pushing the “mac has given up, lol gottem” line should be under a close microscope tomorrow

[speedchuck]

To be clear I think he’s a wolf, I just don’t think that’s why he’s a wolf

Distinctions like this are scummy.

Distinctions like you are scummy

NO U is scummy.

[speedchuck]

I also think anyone hard pushing the “mac has given up, lol gottem” line should be under a close microscope tomorrow

. . .

You're talking about even if Mac is scum, right?

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I also think anyone hard pushing the “mac has given up, lol gottem” line should be under a close microscope tomorrow

. . .

You're talking about even if Mac is scum, right?

Yes. Multiball.

[speedchuck]

I also think anyone hard pushing the “mac has given up, lol gottem” line should be under a close microscope tomorrow

. . .

You're talking about even if Mac is scum, right?

Yes. Multiball.

Oh, right, Multiball.

And here I almost sorta agree with you.

[TonyStarkPrime]

I also think anyone hard pushing the “mac has given up, lol gottem” line should be under a close microscope tomorrow

. . .

You're talking about even if Mac is scum, right?

Yes. Multiball.

Oh, right, Multiball.

And here I almost sorta agree with you.

Anyone on either scum team could do this right now. I don't think they would. I also don't think many people are going for it?

[TonyStarkPrime]

Michelle: Michelle has what I would consider to be a normal post count by day 3, which makes this easier for me. Early Radishes vote, minor NAI derp, makes some reads against Colin. I think the TMI argument is questionable, but it’s something.
Day 2, after voting Radishes Day 1, votes Turnip. Doesn’t change vote. Susticious. Spends one of few posts Day 2 calling out Mac though, which has to be a good sign. Makes some posts Night 2 saying basically “oh let’s lynch bad guys who are connected to Radish maybe” which is meh. Overall, there are some good posts, but nothing I can glean much information from without better links.
Team A: Meh
Team B w/ Mac: Meh
Team B w/o Mac: Meh

@Michelle, come give thoughts?

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I don’t care what people will say, you can publicly agree with me bb, let them talk

[TonyStarkPrime]

Whoops try again
[mention]Michelle[/mention]