Champions 2019 - Crisis on The Syndicate [GAME OVER]

[Jackofhearts2005]

Jack tell me why Epignosis is not Mac's teammate.

Cause then you wouldn't be so suspicious of him.

One of your biggest blind spots as a player is your inability to view the suspicions of your suspects through an objective lens. You suspect me. Great, wonderful, super. Tell me why Epignosis isn't Mac's teammate. I am literally asking for your perspective here. Maybe I'll agree with it.

Epi feels right. I felt like the things you highlighted as specific reasons why you thought he was bad were incorrect because from a townie Epi perspective, he'd still think those things.

I'm not having trouble objectively looking at your suspicions. You came in pushing at my second from top suspect and the way you've done it looks bad. Your thoughts don't match with mine across the board. I've never read so many of your interactive isos and thought "I don't agree with that."

[Dom]

Since when have you known Jay to try this little, folks?

[Jackofhearts2005]

K. Push me.

No, I'm serious. Make the argument that I'm the antimonitor.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Epi feels right. I felt like the things you highlighted as specific reasons why you thought he was bad were incorrect because from a townie Epi perspective, he'd still think those things.

I'm not having trouble objectively looking at your suspicions. You came in pushing at my second from top suspect and the way you've done it looks bad. Your thoughts don't match with mine across the board. I've never read so many of your interactive isos and thought "I don't agree with that."

I am not interested in massaging your confirmation bias. I provide the reads I believe in. If people don't believe me, then that's Mafia.

[Sloonei]

Jack tell me why Epignosis is not Mac's teammate.

Thought you suspected speedchuck?

Bad Take

[JaggedJimmyJay]

No, I'm serious. Make the argument that I'm the antimonitor.

You're probably not the anti-monitor. You're just blind.

I said earlier that I think you look authentic, and I still think that.

[Sloonei]

Sloonei, thoughts please

I am acknowledging this for later.

[Dom]

Jack tell me why Epignosis is not Mac's teammate.

Thought you suspected speedchuck?

Bad Take

Oh is it?

Tell me, Sloonei, since when does Jay not have extremely detailed reasoning for his suspicions, eagerly share them, and want to solve games?

None of that is happening here?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Since when have you known Jay to try this little, folks?

I gave you a gut read on speedchuck. There's a whole set of analyses in my posts that can expand.

Click

You can shit on my work after you look at it.

[Dom]

So Sloonei-- I ask you--

sig is off the table.

Who is bad? Why?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I'm losing my zen.

I will regain my zen.

[Sloonei]

Jack tell me why Epignosis is not Mac's teammate.

Thought you suspected speedchuck?

Bad Take

Oh is it?

Tell me, Sloonei, since when does Jay not have extremely detailed reasoning for his suspicions, eagerly share them, and want to solve games?

None of that is happening here?

I do not see how this is related to your initial post. And I disagree with it anyway.

[Jackofhearts2005]

No, I'm serious. Make the argument that I'm the antimonitor.

You're probably not the anti-monitor. You're just blind.

I said earlier that I think you look authentic, and I still think that.

Fraidy wolf.

[Dom]

Since when have you known Jay to try this little, folks?

I gave you a gut read on speedchuck. There's a whole set of analyses in my posts that can expand.

Click

You can shit on my work after you look at it.

I believe someone else in this game-- probably SVS-- stated that there is value in re-summarizing.
Back your shit up.

[Turnip Head]

Turnip Head on MacDougall:

Spoiler: show

@Turnip Head can you extrapolate on your Dom/Nutella worldview please?

I mean I could, but I'm sure it could be refuted by logic and big brains

When I am bad, I tend to try to make a big case and a big splash early to distract from lurking teammates, but I am an outlier. Most people don't do this. Of the people making big splashy cases, I found Mac the most suspish. He is also an outlier in general, and I saw him do something like it when he was bad when I hosted the Champs game with TH several years ago; make a big splashy play. @Turnip Head,do you recall this? It was end game, though, so not exactly the same, I was thinking more of his thread play.

I remember Mac being a hilariously evil genius in that game, but not the specific play you're referring to

Townish people:
G-man
Turnip (?)
Juliets (?)
Nook (?)
Ted (?)
Sig?

Scum:
Almost everyone else?

Jack town
Mac town
Jimmy town
Dom town

Mac, I once again am asking you to clarify why you wanted someone you claim is baddie (me) to corroborate a piece of evidence for you.

Because there are two scum teams

Mac is town, this quote is exhibit A

What's up?

We're rescuing Mac from getting wreckt

Cause town has perverse incentive to cooperate with scum that have good SRs on the opposite team, so you see mac as doing that and think it’s a townie mindset

Would be my guess anyways

That's exactly what I think. Baddie Mac doesn't make that post, his instinct would be to write with a different angle

Cause town has perverse incentive to cooperate with scum that have good SRs on the opposite team, so you see mac as doing that and think it’s a townie mindset

Would be my guess anyways

I really really really really dislike his flip flop on how he read me and Nutella. He declared me a wolf and Nutella one we should follow after the two of us started battling. Then like 12 hours later, I was town and Nutella was scum because I read her perfectly.

His argument for Nutella being scum exists in its entirety at the time he expressed a strong townread on her. His read change does not come from a town perspective. It comes from a scum perspective mimicking townplay, ie trusting Jack's Nutella read.

Why would baddie Mac express a strong townread on nutella and then flip flop just as soon? Why would a bad guy do that? It's a townie maneuever, just like your exact opposite flip flop was (I assume) townie.

Cause town has perverse incentive to cooperate with scum that have good SRs on the opposite team, so you see mac as doing that and think it’s a townie mindset

Would be my guess anyways

That's exactly what I think. Baddie Mac doesn't make that post, his instinct would be to write with a different angle

idgi

you said essentially the same thing one post before mine (I got caught in linki), so I think you do get it...

[VOTE: Jackofhearts2005] aubergine I don't like his unwavering suspicion of Mac and I especially don't like his reasoning re: Mac's changing opinion of Nutella

Does anyone know how many toes MacDougall has? This is important to my read of him. He may not even be able to wear civ shoes.

For real though Mac is clearly town and anyone who can't see that is not trying hard enough

I have been calling TH one of my top townreads on gut, but I can't deny they're compatible with mac

Because we're soulmates

I am a sorcerer and each day I say “Abrica-fucking-dabra, Kalamazoo, I’m gonna make a rabbit out of you!” and nothing happens it will become more obvious.

Really? That's neat.

Really cool. Goes nowhere

The case on Mac is top notch cringe mainly driven by Sig's woman scorned persona

Anybody got thoughts about ted?

I appreciate his existence and would prefer it to continue

What if he just lived on as a ghost for a little bit

He also compared you to g-man as if that's his pet vote

I don't follow your point here?

Like why would a civ bother doing that. He's setting up a "suspicion" in the same breath as "defending" you

I encourage everybody to read in detail those Ted quotes that Mac posted, and tell me if that's not a scum looking for a read on Mac while pushing a g-man scapegoat agenda

This is a fun take. In a world where Mac isn't on the Master team I could entertain a world where Ted is. Also yeah I feel like we haven't heard from him in a while.

I encourage everybody to read in detail those Ted quotes that Mac posted, and tell me if that's not a scum looking for a read on Mac while pushing a g-man scapegoat agenda

Okay I’m getting lost in all of these nets but this definitely doesn’t scan. If Ted is scum, he knows that Mac is not. He doesn’t need to probe Mac to try to find that.

Mr. Stark I know you're a billionaire Playboy genius but there's two mafia teams...

TonyStarkPrime
Yes because Ted is bad and unsure if Mac is on the other team, but leaning towards him not being in the other tean

@Turnip Head
I see you why not switch to Mac?

Tell me why your voting me vs him?

Mac is town and you're maybe town. The thread seems convinced that you're both bad, if I had my way we'd be lynching Ted or pressuring jack

Gripes, starting with colored stuff:

Yellow: TH isn't merely defending Mac, they're telling us what Mac's instincts are. How should they know? That looks bogus to me.

Orange: TH's read on Mac is standout; the language they used and confidence they expressed were one of a kind in his posts. And there's close to nothing to justify that confidence. What follows is as much as there was:

Burnt orange: The read is heavily predicated upon Mac's flip of his nutella read. First of all, the entire premise that this is something mafia don't do is just balogna. Of course they do that. They do it all the time. Second, assigning that assessment to MacDougall of all people is additionally hard to believe. Mac is capable of just about anything, and one needn't play many games with him to determine that. Third, even if one accepts the premise that this was a "good look", it makes no sense to me for the look to be so good that Mac is rendered beyond reproach.

The read looks fake to me.

I was wrong but my read looks and feels authentic, you even said so yourself earlier. It wasn't until Mac actually flipped that you've now started calling my reads "disingenuous" and considering my contributions to be "nothing". I will pull your quotes if I have to. I can see now that you were being opportunistic at the time when you called my read of him authentic, and you are being opportunistic again after his flip, calling my reads "disingenuous" and "nothing".
You're taking advantage of my reads
when
they
suit
your
agenda

You are Mac's actual teammate, I'm the unwitting pawn on your chessboard.

He hadn't flipped yet = turnip's reads look real and good
After Mac flips = I hate all of turnip's read, bullet point by bullet point

Pull the quotes.

I'm very inclined to believe you over Jay if you show your work.

HERE
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V

Spoiler: show

Haven’t had a firm read one way or the other despite TH’s big thread presence. Want to see some discussion and hopefully i’ll come back to take a closer look later.

I view TH as a solid civilian read. Qualifying that substantively is difficult for TH given that his posts are so brief -- that's his Thing so whatever. It's my intuition. I haven't found his stances hard to believe; they fit well within the persona I associate with his civilian body. He is frank and sometimes contrarian, and when he has provided explanations I haven't struggled to follow.

Spoiler: show

TH was in Jack's camp until this moment, without exception:

Spoiler: show

Cause town has perverse incentive to cooperate with scum that have good SRs on the opposite team, so you see mac as doing that and think it’s a townie mindset

Would be my guess anyways

I really really really really dislike his flip flop on how he read me and Nutella. He declared me a wolf and Nutella one we should follow after the two of us started battling. Then like 12 hours later, I was town and Nutella was scum because I read her perfectly.

His argument for Nutella being scum exists in its entirety at the time he expressed a strong townread on her. His read change does not come from a town perspective. It comes from a scum perspective mimicking townplay, ie trusting Jack's Nutella read.

Why would baddie Mac express a strong townread on nutella and then flip flop just as soon? Why would a bad guy do that? It's a townie maneuever, just like your exact opposite flip flop was (I assume) townie.

Cause he forgot about his townread on her cause it was fake. Or cause Nutella was suddenly more appealing as a lynch considering she was counterwagon to his buddy Radish (which would be convenient considering our top wagons) than she was when I was the only player voting for her.

My progression is out there for everyone to see. Mac's progression doesn't exist on the thread.

Nah I don't buy that

You bad

I'm not bothered by this. I think I can see the wheels turning in both players' heads here -- both regarding Jack's theory and Turnip Head's reception of that theory. The whole exchange is on-brand.

Open them spoilers, town. "I haven't found his stances hard to believe" "I think I see the wheels turning in both players' heads here"

Contrast that with Jay's new clarification of his views - that my read of Jack (which was RELATED to our differing reads of Mac) looks genuine, and that my other reads look genuine, but now he's saying my Mac read specifically sounds fake to him.

Why does Jay see the authenticity of my reads - as a bundle, per the first spoiler - but after Mac's flip, try pushing the angle that my read of Mac, and only my read of Mac, looks fake?

Jimmy is working an angle

[JaggedJimmyJay]

General question for everyone in this game:

If you find juliets suspicious, why do you find juliets suspicious?

[Turnip Head]

The reason Jay can't find Mac's team is cause he's on Mac's team gottem.

[Dom]

So folks-- this is Jay's epic takedown of Speedchuck. Ready? I've removed the spoiler tags so you can be FORCED to dine on its glory.

speedchuck

- Says he doesn't see any ATE in Nutella's posts. I interpreted this as him not seeing any emotion in Nutella's posts which I disagree with. I see a lot of emotion.

Nah, I'm talking about APPEAL to emotion. The idea of 'OMG how could you do this please lynch this person and not me because I'll feel just so awful if you lynch me uwu'

I hate appeal to emotion and it's lost several games to scum on this site.

Ok speed thanks for the clarification.

That said nutella does get a lot more emotional after Mac turns on her. I see why she has votes.

Upon further reflection of ISOs both of these wagons are shiiiiiiiiiiiny turds.

Nutella I can see why people suspect her. The interactions starting when Mac wagoned on look pretty bad. But lynching nutella D1 after she gets defensive over some tunneling is wonky.

I have no idea why anyone would vote Master Radishes.

Having read over the last two pages, Dys and Dom are my top townreads. Their votes are on people I would like to see lynched.

I got twenty minutes. Lets go.

Expand on this, mr chuck

I got weird vibes from Ted D1, and then he appeared reluctant to address Dizzy's 'scumslip' on him. It wasn't the slip itself that bothered me, but his forced nonchalance about it? Something like that. Lol at her flipping votes, though.

The Mac read is nothing special. I agree with what Jay said about his Dom post, and a few other sentiments expressed in the past two pages.

Dizzy and Dom both seemed like fairly stable, level heads in the thread D1. I like town dizzy and town dom.

Bonus: I don't care to lynch G-man.

[VOTE: Ted] aubergine

I could be persuaded to vote Mac pretty easily.

Hey you should vote mac

wow okay that sounds good [VOTE: Macdougall] aubergine

I 100% disagree about that progression.

Jack was sure Nutella was scum and said so loudly.

Mac said Nutella was town and Jack was scum with basically no explanation.

Then, after nothing changed between Jack and Nutella, Mac adopted the idea that Jack is always right about Nutella and therefore she is bad and if she’s not, whatever. An excuse to pretend that makes Jack scum.

The not tiny part would be an understandable opinion to have if he started with it or he developed it. That didn’t happen. That opinion appears to have spontaneously generated. More likely, Mac saw a way to shade two players who had each accumulated 6ish votes at some point during the day, hoping for a one two lynch and lynch of players not on his team.

It’s worse than no progression. There’s agenda in it.

Sounds pretty non-subtle as flip-flops go. Do you think scum mac would be subtle or no?

I would, right now, vote sig, TH, Mac, and anyone who has appealed to emotion. I would murder the emotion right out of this game.

Mac is self voting? Idgi. Does anyone remember him doing this before in a game?

Not sure.

I mean, Sig apparently told him to do so this game. So we should lynch Sig for suggesting it as well.

So we can start with him.

But I have a hit list, and I'm considering putting you on it.

[VOTE: Macdougall] aubergine

I also think anyone hard pushing the “mac has given up, lol gottem” line should be under a close microscope tomorrow

. . .

You're talking about even if Mac is scum, right?

Yes. Multiball.

Oh, right, Multiball.

And here I almost sorta agree with you.

For the record though, sloonei is absolutely mac's teammate idk why y'all are sleeping on that fact.

TonyStarkPrime

Literally first I've heard of this.

(but if he is don't you think we should lynch Mac first? :P)

I can [VOTE: Sig] aubergine for sure, with Mac on the back burner.

@MacDougall talk about players who aren’t voting for/heavily suspecting you. Who are your town reads? Is there anyone you think isn’t getting enough attention?

A great deal of people. The constant focus on myself (and now Sig) is very much allowing for a game environment where people who are absolutely failing in their basic civilian duty, or not living up to their usual standards are receiving little to no pressure. I have reservations about all the below;

Epignosis - Does not appear to be earnestly attempting to achieve a civilian wincon.
ColinIsCool - Only appears to be trying when there is pressure on him.
Michelle - Does not match her meta. Hasn't helped the civ cause really at all.
speedchuck - Does not appear to be the same speedchuck that I am used to seeing.
sprityo - Appears to be totally laying low outside of intermittently FPS reading me scum.
Tranq - Has literally made 5 posts or something.

Mac can you talk about speedchuck? Is it that he isn't posting frequently or something else/combination of things?

I think the lack of speedchuck's content is a large part of it. I am used to him being a more prominent member of the town. I think that with players like speedchuck sometimes basic is the best way to read them. If he is not living up to the normal standards of contribution then it's probably because he has a non town agenda/is putting a lot of his content elsewhere (ie. scum chat).

Have you ever been in scumchat with me?

How chatty am I in scumchat, Mac?

linki: my 'extra content' is going into audio editing, yeah. That's not an excuse, so feel free to suspect me and put attention my way. But it's also an unfortunate truth to work around. Binding freelance contracts are more pressing than mafia.

math is wonderful

what TSP is doing is not mathematics. : (

It is. It’s just the kind of math townies don’t like to listen to, along with logic like “even if I am scum....”

Townies generally want to vote for the player they suspect the most, which is Sig, not the player who is most likely to flip mafia, which is Mac.

It doesn’t really matter because we’re probably lynching them both and they’re probably both flipping mafia but

Tony’s logic is sound.

Lynch Sig and he flips wolf -> lynch Mac
Lynch Sig and he flips town -> lynch Mac
Lynch Mac and he flips bulletproof wolf -> lynch Sig
Lynch Mac and he flips town -> a decent chunk of the Sig case falls away -> maybe don’t lynch Sig.

Logically, mathematically, that makes Mac the best lynch.

Realistically, people suspect Sig the most and Sig will be lynched today. That’s of course fine because there’s good reason for that suspicion. We just need to follow up on Mac tomorrow, especially because he’ll have three teammates running interference and I’m betting we’ll see some new cases starting up on townies tomorrow.

I thought the Sig case was more predicated on his knowledge of the nightkill, not of the alignment he supposed for Mac. That would make Sig's slip irrelevant to Mac's alignment, if his team just got it wrong?

Or did I miss case development overnight?

His knowledge of the nightkill is “I think the mafia shot Mac and he’s the bulletproof guy in the Master mafia.”

So if we’re to read “I think” as “I know” then the chances of Mac also being scum skyrockets.

But there's only one part of that he CAN know, right? Surely there are town roles that can stop a kill?

...

But nobody would have protected Mac. Oh. Lol.

Yeah I could lynch Mac first. [VOTE: Mac] aubergine

I've had a suspicion of Sig since D1, before the whole slip biz. I really don't care much whether he or Mac get sacked first.

Ted, Jack, and Colin are the names to look into if we’re right about sig. Dom is a fringe candidate too, and I saw someone float Tranq as well. I have no reason to object to that.

This for if Sig is scum?

Yes

What happened to mac

Speedchuck is short odds to be scum here imo

You never responded to my addressing your accusation earlier.

Am I active in scumchat, Mac?

The meat of this stuff is Day 3, starting with the post I highlighted (just as a marker). speed went back and forth between Mac and sig. I believe he voted each of them twice; he ended on sig and didn't appear to call the vote. I note that his willingness to wield those votes was based primarily upon the comparative "value" or validity of lynching either Mac or sig first relative to the other, with less emphasis upon what made them suspicious -- particularly with Mac. That's not my favorite thing. I am not prepared to dissociate them.

Compatibility: Decent

One paragraph and a line in yellow.

This sums to: "I dunno. Seems possible"

That's Jay's second most favored lynch in this game.

Does that seem off to you, folks?

[Jackofhearts2005]

General question for everyone in this game:

If you find juliets suspicious, why do you find juliets suspicious?

Why do you give a shit about this?

[Sloonei]

So Sloonei-- I ask you--

sig is off the table.

Who is bad? Why?

Well I voted for Michelle in our pointless thread yesterday. It was a tinfoil that would not be worth a vote under normal circumstances, but which still merits suspicious. The theory had her as the anti-monitor.

After that I intend to finish looking at Mac's interactions with folks later in the phase. I should have definitive reads then. The previous phase was a big disruption in my flow. Before that happened, Colin and Tony were names that I wanted to explore in relation to Mac.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

General question for everyone in this game:

If you find juliets suspicious, why do you find juliets suspicious?

Why do you give a shit about this?

Because I am fairly certain there is at least one bullshitter trying to ply her as a suspect.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Turnip Head on MacDougall:

Spoiler: show

@Turnip Head can you extrapolate on your Dom/Nutella worldview please?

I mean I could, but I'm sure it could be refuted by logic and big brains

When I am bad, I tend to try to make a big case and a big splash early to distract from lurking teammates, but I am an outlier. Most people don't do this. Of the people making big splashy cases, I found Mac the most suspish. He is also an outlier in general, and I saw him do something like it when he was bad when I hosted the Champs game with TH several years ago; make a big splashy play. @Turnip Head,do you recall this? It was end game, though, so not exactly the same, I was thinking more of his thread play.

I remember Mac being a hilariously evil genius in that game, but not the specific play you're referring to

Townish people:
G-man
Turnip (?)
Juliets (?)
Nook (?)
Ted (?)
Sig?

Scum:
Almost everyone else?

Jack town
Mac town
Jimmy town
Dom town

Mac, I once again am asking you to clarify why you wanted someone you claim is baddie (me) to corroborate a piece of evidence for you.

Because there are two scum teams

Mac is town, this quote is exhibit A

What's up?

We're rescuing Mac from getting wreckt

Cause town has perverse incentive to cooperate with scum that have good SRs on the opposite team, so you see mac as doing that and think it’s a townie mindset

Would be my guess anyways

That's exactly what I think. Baddie Mac doesn't make that post, his instinct would be to write with a different angle

Cause town has perverse incentive to cooperate with scum that have good SRs on the opposite team, so you see mac as doing that and think it’s a townie mindset

Would be my guess anyways

I really really really really dislike his flip flop on how he read me and Nutella. He declared me a wolf and Nutella one we should follow after the two of us started battling. Then like 12 hours later, I was town and Nutella was scum because I read her perfectly.

His argument for Nutella being scum exists in its entirety at the time he expressed a strong townread on her. His read change does not come from a town perspective. It comes from a scum perspective mimicking townplay, ie trusting Jack's Nutella read.

Why would baddie Mac express a strong townread on nutella and then flip flop just as soon? Why would a bad guy do that? It's a townie maneuever, just like your exact opposite flip flop was (I assume) townie.

That's exactly what I think. Baddie Mac doesn't make that post, his instinct would be to write with a different angle

idgi

you said essentially the same thing one post before mine (I got caught in linki), so I think you do get it...

[VOTE: Jackofhearts2005] aubergine I don't like his unwavering suspicion of Mac and I especially don't like his reasoning re: Mac's changing opinion of Nutella

Does anyone know how many toes MacDougall has? This is important to my read of him. He may not even be able to wear civ shoes.

For real though Mac is clearly town and anyone who can't see that is not trying hard enough

I have been calling TH one of my top townreads on gut, but I can't deny they're compatible with mac

Because we're soulmates

I am a sorcerer and each day I say “Abrica-fucking-dabra, Kalamazoo, I’m gonna make a rabbit out of you!” and nothing happens it will become more obvious.

Really? That's neat.

Really cool. Goes nowhere

The case on Mac is top notch cringe mainly driven by Sig's woman scorned persona

Anybody got thoughts about ted?

I appreciate his existence and would prefer it to continue

What if he just lived on as a ghost for a little bit

He also compared you to g-man as if that's his pet vote

I don't follow your point here?

Like why would a civ bother doing that. He's setting up a "suspicion" in the same breath as "defending" you

I encourage everybody to read in detail those Ted quotes that Mac posted, and tell me if that's not a scum looking for a read on Mac while pushing a g-man scapegoat agenda

This is a fun take. In a world where Mac isn't on the Master team I could entertain a world where Ted is. Also yeah I feel like we haven't heard from him in a while.

I encourage everybody to read in detail those Ted quotes that Mac posted, and tell me if that's not a scum looking for a read on Mac while pushing a g-man scapegoat agenda

Okay I’m getting lost in all of these nets but this definitely doesn’t scan. If Ted is scum, he knows that Mac is not. He doesn’t need to probe Mac to try to find that.

Mr. Stark I know you're a billionaire Playboy genius but there's two mafia teams...

TonyStarkPrime
Yes because Ted is bad and unsure if Mac is on the other team, but leaning towards him not being in the other tean

@Turnip Head
I see you why not switch to Mac?

Tell me why your voting me vs him?

Mac is town and you're maybe town. The thread seems convinced that you're both bad, if I had my way we'd be lynching Ted or pressuring jack

Gripes, starting with colored stuff:

Yellow: TH isn't merely defending Mac, they're telling us what Mac's instincts are. How should they know? That looks bogus to me.

Orange: TH's read on Mac is standout; the language they used and confidence they expressed were one of a kind in his posts. And there's close to nothing to justify that confidence. What follows is as much as there was:

Burnt orange: The read is heavily predicated upon Mac's flip of his nutella read. First of all, the entire premise that this is something mafia don't do is just balogna. Of course they do that. They do it all the time. Second, assigning that assessment to MacDougall of all people is additionally hard to believe. Mac is capable of just about anything, and one needn't play many games with him to determine that. Third, even if one accepts the premise that this was a "good look", it makes no sense to me for the look to be so good that Mac is rendered beyond reproach.

The read looks fake to me.

I was wrong but my read looks and feels authentic, you even said so yourself earlier. It wasn't until Mac actually flipped that you've now started calling my reads "disingenuous" and considering my contributions to be "nothing". I will pull your quotes if I have to. I can see now that you were being opportunistic at the time when you called my read of him authentic, and you are being opportunistic again after his flip, calling my reads "disingenuous" and "nothing".
You're taking advantage of my reads
when
they
suit
your
agenda

You are Mac's actual teammate, I'm the unwitting pawn on your chessboard.

He hadn't flipped yet = turnip's reads look real and good
After Mac flips = I hate all of turnip's read, bullet point by bullet point

Pull the quotes.

I'm very inclined to believe you over Jay if you show your work.

HERE
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Spoiler: show

Haven’t had a firm read one way or the other despite TH’s big thread presence. Want to see some discussion and hopefully i’ll come back to take a closer look later.

I view TH as a solid civilian read. Qualifying that substantively is difficult for TH given that his posts are so brief -- that's his Thing so whatever. It's my intuition. I haven't found his stances hard to believe; they fit well within the persona I associate with his civilian body. He is frank and sometimes contrarian, and when he has provided explanations I haven't struggled to follow.

Spoiler: show

TH was in Jack's camp until this moment, without exception:

Spoiler: show

Cause town has perverse incentive to cooperate with scum that have good SRs on the opposite team, so you see mac as doing that and think it’s a townie mindset

Would be my guess anyways

I really really really really dislike his flip flop on how he read me and Nutella. He declared me a wolf and Nutella one we should follow after the two of us started battling. Then like 12 hours later, I was town and Nutella was scum because I read her perfectly.

His argument for Nutella being scum exists in its entirety at the time he expressed a strong townread on her. His read change does not come from a town perspective. It comes from a scum perspective mimicking townplay, ie trusting Jack's Nutella read.

Why would baddie Mac express a strong townread on nutella and then flip flop just as soon? Why would a bad guy do that? It's a townie maneuever, just like your exact opposite flip flop was (I assume) townie.

Cause he forgot about his townread on her cause it was fake. Or cause Nutella was suddenly more appealing as a lynch considering she was counterwagon to his buddy Radish (which would be convenient considering our top wagons) than she was when I was the only player voting for her.

My progression is out there for everyone to see. Mac's progression doesn't exist on the thread.

Nah I don't buy that

You bad

I'm not bothered by this. I think I can see the wheels turning in both players' heads here -- both regarding Jack's theory and Turnip Head's reception of that theory. The whole exchange is on-brand.

Open them spoilers, town. "I haven't found his stances hard to believe" "I think I see the wheels turning in both players' heads here"

Contrast that with Jay's new clarification of his views - that my read of Jack (which was RELATED to our differing reads of Mac) looks genuine, and that my other reads look genuine, but now he's saying my Mac read specifically sounds fake to him.

Why does Jay see the authenticity of my reads - as a bundle, per the first spoiler - but after Mac's flip, try pushing the angle that my read of Mac, and only my read of Mac, looks fake?

Jimmy is working an angle

Yeah, I super buy this.

[Dom]

General question for everyone in this game:

If you find juliets suspicious, why do you find juliets suspicious?

Why do you give a shit about this?

Because I am fairly certain there is at least one bullshitter trying to ply her as a suspect.

Sounds like you have a suspect that isn't speedchuck.

[Sloonei]

General question for everyone in this game:

If you find juliets suspicious, why do you find juliets suspicious?

Why do you give a shit about this?

I can answer this for Jay. I won't. But I can.

[Turnip Head]

There are a lot of posts on this page but mine is the most important one

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Okay. We've once again reached the point in the game where Jay gets hounded with every damned thing -- cool. Y'all do you. But you'd better not ignore my reads. Whenever I'm dead, do me the dignity of referring back to them.

[Dom]

Hey turnip-- is that all it took? Jack asking you to literally back up anything you say?
Are you gonna ignore this post too?

[Jackofhearts2005]

General question for everyone in this game:

If you find juliets suspicious, why do you find juliets suspicious?

Why do you give a shit about this?

Because I am fairly certain there is at least one bullshitter trying to ply her as a suspect.

It’s me and Dom, who are lock town.

Again I ask, why do you give a shit about this?

[Sloonei]

Okay. We've once again reached the point in the game where Jay gets hounded with every damned thing -- cool. Y'all do you. But you'd better not ignore my reads. Whenever I'm dead, do me the dignity of referring back to them.

dead jay can still say things this time.

[Dom]

General question for everyone in this game:

If you find juliets suspicious, why do you find juliets suspicious?

Why do you give a shit about this?

I can answer this for Jay. I won't. But I can.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

There are a lot of posts on this page but mine is the most important one

When information comes into the game and we incorporate that information into our assessments of the universe, sometimes we don't feel exactly like we felt before. I'm irrelevant. You're a suspect and you're not going to survive the game with or without me.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Okay. We've once again reached the point in the game where Jay gets hounded with every damned thing -- cool. Y'all do you. But you'd better not ignore my reads. Whenever I'm dead, do me the dignity of referring back to them.

dead jay can still say things this time.

good call.

Ima be the best ghost you ever seen.

[Turnip Head]

Hey turnip-- is that all it took? Jack asking you to literally back up anything you say?
Are you gonna ignore this post too?

I will not ignore this post

[Sloonei]

I disapprove of most of the content on this page.

[Sloonei]

General question for everyone in this game:

If you find juliets suspicious, why do you find juliets suspicious?

Why do you give a shit about this?

I can answer this for Jay. I won't. But I can.

You object to Sloonei expressing the opinion that there is value in asking people questions?

[Jackofhearts2005]

I agree with Dom’s post too but it’s too big to quote.

I wanna know what [mention]juliets[/mention] and [mention]S~V~S[/mention] think about Jay.

Badly. Desperately.

[Turnip Head]

I disapprove of most of the content on this page.

even taylor?

[Jackofhearts2005]

It’s a good gif!

[Jackofhearts2005]

Taylor Swift is a nice girl just looking for love.

[Dom]

General question for everyone in this game:

If you find juliets suspicious, why do you find juliets suspicious?

Why do you give a shit about this?

I can answer this for Jay. I won't. But I can.

You object to Sloonei expressing the opinion that there is value in asking people questions?

You're hinting at something hear that I do not buy.

[Dom]

Jay-- more than anyone-- knows that asking for people to restate their opinions is an excelelnt way to catch a baddie.

Didn't expect the snark from a civ Jay.

[Sloonei]

Y'all can suspect Luxury Sloon. I don't object to that, though I'm not currently inclined to agree with it. I am not 100% certain of his alignment, and admittedly my usual method of "wait to see how his reads play out" holds less weight in this game. But I've seen nothing alarming to this point that would make me feel like Jay's an urgent lynch. If you have a case, state it clearly with substantial points and whatnot. Pointing and saying "bad" isn't going to do anything.

As for my reads on things, I feel like I have only dug into about 30% of the information I normally would in this game. I had planned to do a lot of interactive analysis on Day 4, but that was not an option. I'll tell you all who to lynch after I've done that. It won't be tonight though.

[Turnip Head]

Sloonei are you reading the same page as the rest of us? Or are you in a sloon dream

[Sloonei]

General question for everyone in this game:

If you find juliets suspicious, why do you find juliets suspicious?

Why do you give a shit about this?

I can answer this for Jay. I won't. But I can.

You object to Sloonei expressing the opinion that there is value in asking people questions?

You're hinting at something hear that I do not buy.

I genuinely do not know what you're talking about. I am just talking about the foundation of my approach to a mafia game. Ask people questions and make them explain things.

[Turnip Head]

Do sloonei's dream of electric sloons

[Sloonei]

Sloonei are you reading the same page as the rest of us? Or are you in a sloon dream

Page 110 of the 2019 Game of Champions on mafiathesyndicate.com?

[Turnip Head]

Whose sloon is it anyway?

[Jackofhearts2005]

Sloonei, gimmie so hot reads.

Who are them baddies?

[Sloonei]

Sloonei, gimmie so hot reads.

Who are them baddies?

Scroll up

[Turnip Head]

I want to take page 110 to acknowledge that I love and appreciate all the ghost posts