Champions 2019 - Crisis on The Syndicate [GAME OVER]

[TonyStarkPrime]

You guys are scumreading me without any reason and POE townreading everyone without reason (except for Juliets, I got that one) and it's going to lose town the game.

At least, lose the game for me, Juliets and whoever the one other townsperson is.

I’m willing to accept Tranq and Epi. That was Jay’s guess as well.

Actually his guess was Tranq and Tony but that’s wrong so we’ll go with second option

[juliets]

I think speed has better odds at flipping scum than Epi to be honest.

Talk about this a little more ted. What are you seeing here?

[speedchuck]

You guys are scumreading me without any reason and POE townreading everyone without reason (except for Juliets, I got that one) and it's going to lose town the game.

At least, lose the game for me, Juliets and whoever the one other townsperson is.

I’m willing to accept Tranq and Epi. That was Jay’s guess as well.

Actually his guess was Tranq and Tony but that’s wrong so we’ll go with second option

I thought you and Juliets had cleared tranq not an hour ago.

[TonyStarkPrime]

You guys are scumreading me without any reason and POE townreading everyone without reason (except for Juliets, I got that one) and it's going to lose town the game.

At least, lose the game for me, Juliets and whoever the one other townsperson is.

I’m willing to accept Tranq and Epi. That was Jay’s guess as well.

Actually his guess was Tranq and Tony but that’s wrong so we’ll go with second option

I thought you and Juliets had cleared tranq not an hour ago.

Jules did for reasons I think completely other than why I did.

[juliets]

Guys I'm taking a break for some lunch.

[speedchuck]

You guys are scumreading me without any reason and POE townreading everyone without reason (except for Juliets, I got that one) and it's going to lose town the game.

At least, lose the game for me, Juliets and whoever the one other townsperson is.

I’m willing to accept Tranq and Epi. That was Jay’s guess as well.

Actually his guess was Tranq and Tony but that’s wrong so we’ll go with second option

I thought you and Juliets had cleared tranq not an hour ago.

Jules did for reasons I think completely other than why I did.

And you're considering going back on that?

And why did she?

I'm getting very little out of this. And there are no civ roles left worth protecting, which was her reason for not theorizing more.

[tedxtr]

Nvm I think Epi has higher odds than speed

ahhhhh i don't fucking know i'll get into some in-depth analysis tomorrow prolly

vote tranq btw

[Tranq]

I don’t think it’s Ted so now I’m 50/50 even with my other town reads on the table.

Jay really wanted to clear speed for the AtE thing but I’m not buying it.

Speed and ... Juliets?
Or you but I think focusing on the second kill is really weird and I like it

Can you explain why you don't think it's Ted?

[mention]TonyStarkPrime[/mention] Can you explain why you don't think it's Ted? What am i missing?

[Epignosis]

ted, my main concern is that you or Epi have to be bad because of Inception Day. Maybe it's not you, maybe it's Epi. In my head I'm saying neither of the things you are attributing to me.

Jay was pretty adamant about Epi being bad so I'm going to revisit his posts. One thing I know made me uncomfortable is how hard Epi has fought against the notion that either he or ted is bad because of Inception Day. It seems so logical to me that the baddies would have been spread between levels.

That's not the case though. It's based on an assumption that the hosts interfered to make things "fair." I don't believe that's true here. That made sense in Inception Mafia because everybody was in Inception Mafia the entire time. In this scenario, it's only one role who gets to separate everyone into different groups one time, and that role only makes sense if it gets to dictate who goes where. Otherwise, it's a crap shoot.

If you must lynch me, do so on something I can defend against and not bad logic and the writings of confirmed mafioso who literally suspected everyone.

Better yet, don't lynch me.

Ok so I'm ready to consider Epi and speedchuck as possibilities.

can you give us your thoughts on speedchuck?

He's flailing like he's trapped. I suspect people who were trying to push a juliets lynch. It's clutching at straws and speedchuck is acting like he's been cheated out of a lynch candidate rather than relieved that things have been narrowed down for him.

Nvm I think Epi has higher odds than speed

Higher odds based on what? Tea leaves?

[speedchuck]

I'm flailing because nobody will answer my questions. Because nobody will engage me on them. Because people are suspecting me for reasons that do not exist. And because I want to avoid being the game-losing mislynch at all costs.

[tedxtr]

I'm flailing because nobody will answer my questions. Because nobody will engage me on them. Because people are suspecting me for reasons that do not exist. And because I want to avoid being the game-losing mislynch at all costs.

I think you're exaggerating. Tranq is gonna be today's lynch.

Mentioning...

[mention]Epignosis[/mention] and [mention]speedchuck[/mention] what are your thoughts on tranq?

[juliets]

You guys are scumreading me without any reason and POE townreading everyone without reason (except for Juliets, I got that one) and it's going to lose town the game.

At least, lose the game for me, Juliets and whoever the one other townsperson is.

I’m willing to accept Tranq and Epi. That was Jay’s guess as well.

Actually his guess was Tranq and Tony but that’s wrong so we’ll go with second option

I thought you and Juliets had cleared tranq not an hour ago.

Jules did for reasons I think completely other than why I did.

And you're considering going back on that?

And why did she?

I'm getting very little out of this. And there are no civ roles left worth protecting, which was her reason for not theorizing more.

I find it hard to believe that I can figure this out but you can't. Have you been reading all of the posts or does your schedule have you too tied up to be able to do that?

[juliets]

Epignosis, what do you think about Michelle's read on ted?

[speedchuck]

You guys are scumreading me without any reason and POE townreading everyone without reason (except for Juliets, I got that one) and it's going to lose town the game.

At least, lose the game for me, Juliets and whoever the one other townsperson is.

I’m willing to accept Tranq and Epi. That was Jay’s guess as well.

Actually his guess was Tranq and Tony but that’s wrong so we’ll go with second option

I thought you and Juliets had cleared tranq not an hour ago.

Jules did for reasons I think completely other than why I did.

And you're considering going back on that?

And why did she?

I'm getting very little out of this. And there are no civ roles left worth protecting, which was her reason for not theorizing more.

I find it hard to believe that I can figure this out but you can't. Have you been reading all of the posts or does your schedule have you too tied up to be able to do that?

This is patronizing, and nobody else has gotten it either. I have read all the posts today, at least, and Tranq is my number one suspect.

[juliets]

[mention]Tranq[/mention] I don't know whether to hint more about you or leave it be. I don't think people are getting it.

[Tranq]

@Tranq I don't know whether to hint more about you or leave it be. I don't think people are getting it.

Oh they're getting it. They want revenge.

[Epignosis]

I think you're exaggerating. Tranq is gonna be today's lynch.

Mentioning...

what are your thoughts on tranq?

I'd be surprised if he's bad based on my read through. Would you summarize what you have against him?

[tedxtr]

His interactions with Sloonei sucks, I've already made a post about it like this page or the one behind. Why would that be a surprise for you?

[Epignosis]

Epignosis, what do you think about Michelle's read on ted?

I spent like ten minutes rereading the same Michelle post you quoted (one that doesn't mention ted at all) only to realize you talk about the post before you quote it, not the other way around. I'm dumb.

This is what I was talking about before, a reason why ted would not kill Michelle. I know she posted the link to a town ted game,

Reading through Jay's post about Ted I had a town Ted vibe from the quoted posts.
Town Ted is often wrong in a sure way and get mislynched players with his conviction.
Idk how are looking his latest scum games because I only saw him villager since his mafia hiatus from autumn. But he was more blendy as scum.
If I am allowed to post a link to an outside forum I will post a recent town Ted game.

I understand why you would think someone would not kill his or her supporter, but I've seen it play out both ways plenty of times. It isn't a factor for me.

[juliets]

Epignosis, what do you think about Michelle's read on ted?

I spent like ten minutes rereading the same Michelle post you quoted (one that doesn't mention ted at all) only to realize you talk about the post before you quote it, not the other way around. I'm dumb.

This is what I was talking about before, a reason why ted would not kill Michelle. I know she posted the link to a town ted game,

Reading through Jay's post about Ted I had a town Ted vibe from the quoted posts.
Town Ted is often wrong in a sure way and get mislynched players with his conviction.
Idk how are looking his latest scum games because I only saw him villager since his mafia hiatus from autumn. But he was more blendy as scum.
If I am allowed to post a link to an outside forum I will post a recent town Ted game.

I understand why you would think someone would not kill his or her supporter, but I've seen it play out both ways plenty of times. It isn't a factor for me.

Ok Epi thanks for your opinion, and yeah I should have said "in the following post Michelle xyz" to avoid confusion.

[TonyStarkPrime]

@Tranq I don't know whether to hint more about you or leave it be. I don't think people are getting it.

Look, if you have an airtight clear, speak now or forever hold your peace. Cause there’s no Town role that isn’t Dedede and that can’t be mechanically cleared that’s worth protecting and moreover because I think you’re wrong.

[TonyStarkPrime]

Or at least
Could be

[juliets]

@Tranq I don't know whether to hint more about you or leave it be. I don't think people are getting it.

Look, if you have an airtight clear, speak now or forever hold your peace. Cause there’s no Town role that isn’t Dedede and that can’t be mechanically cleared that’s worth protecting and moreover because I think you’re wrong.

Tony on Day 7 you thought Tranq was town. What changed your mind? Or has it changed, I may be misinterpreting you.

[juliets]

@Tranq I don't know whether to hint more about you or leave it be. I don't think people are getting it.

Look, if you have an airtight clear, speak now or forever hold your peace. Cause there’s no Town role that isn’t Dedede and that can’t be mechanically cleared that’s worth protecting and moreover because I think you’re wrong.

Tony on Day 7 you thought Tranq was town. What changed your mind? Or has it changed, I may be misinterpreting you.

Wait it looks like you also thought he was Master on that day so nvm.

[speedchuck]

I get that Tranq is hinting to have killed sloonei but

Wouldn't that be 3p? But you, Juliets, said he was hinting at being town, and even tranq shut that down.

I'm not stupid, but you guys are contradicting each other and making me out to be the obtuse one.

[speedchuck]

I mean if we agree he's 3p, I dont want to lynch 3p today, but I'm not seeing a consensus that makes sense.

[speedchuck]

This is not a day to play all hedgey. Place your cards on the table and, if 3p sides with town (which if they killed sloon then they did), we have clear numerical advantage.

[Tranq]

Tony, on Day 8 you posted this:

Tranq on Sloonei

Spoiler: show

This is where i'm at right now:

CIV:
----
Dom
Epignosis
G-Man
Jackofhearts2005
juliets
TonyStarkPrime
Tranq

BAD:
----
ColinIsCool (not AM)
JaggedJimmyJay (not AM) or Turnip Head (not AM)
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME 2.0
Sloonei (not AM)

NOT SURE:
----
Michelle (not AM, not Master)
speedchuck (not AM, not Master)
tedxtr (not AM, not Master)

If there are good reasons to dispute any of the above, let me know.

There has been little coordination in here despite some folks saying there needs to be coordination in here. Let's coordinate the two lynches gang.

If you haven't given me a top three suspects yet, do it.

TH
Colin
Sloonei

There has been little coordination in here despite some folks saying there needs to be coordination in here. Let's coordinate the two lynches gang.

If you haven't given me a top three suspects yet, do it.

TH
Colin
Sloonei

Whaddya got on Sloonei?

Elimination. I wasn't able to write Not-Master next to their name.

Mafia:
JaggedJimmyJay
Sloonei
speedchuck
tedxtr

These are my best guesses. Would be ok with lynching any of them.

I'll repeat myself:

Mafia:
JaggedJimmyJay
Sloonei
speedchuck
tedxtr

These are my best guesses. Would be ok with lynching any of them.

Is there anyone except JJJ and Sloonei that does not plan on voting JJJ tomorrow?

Tranq said nothing whatsoever about Sloonei until Day 6. He cast some late suspicion when it was obligatory and did nothing with it. He is still plenty compatible.

Disagree. Tranq was for a while the only voice of suspicion against Sloonei. I almost would’ve guessed he had some info.

Has your opinion changed or not? Do you want to help me solve this game or not?
You and juliets are my top town reads. I still think tedxtr and speedchuck are mafia. I'm voting speedchuck only because you said "i don't think it's Ted". I would like to hear why. I could be wrong, and Ted could be a stubborn civ, but without you explaining i'll stick to my read.

[mention]Epignosis[/mention] do you have a case on tedxtr? Do you think he's more or less likely to be mafia than speedchuck, based on your recent read on speed?

[speedchuck]

The game is at stake. If anyone wants to vote for me, please make a case of my compatibility or inherent scumminess first. I dont buy 'POE' when Juliets (and maybe tranq) are the only ones clear of being scum.

[speedchuck]

I plan to do the same before making my vote

[juliets]

My brain needs a break from this but I do have the same questions Tranq just asked.

speed and Tony, I just can't answer your questions about Tranq at this time, I'm sorry. Maybe later.

[speedchuck]

My brain needs a break from this but I do have the same questions Tranq just asked.

speed and Tony, I just can't answer your questions about Tranq at this time, I'm sorry. Maybe later.

That's dumb. You can't even answer whether or not you think he's 3p?

And you can't tell me why you townread Tony?

[Tranq]

I townread Tony because he's making serious efforts at solving the game. He has shown both town strategy and town paranoia, he's reading between the lines and he's voting accordingly.

[Epignosis]

do you have a case on tedxtr? Do you think he's more or less likely to be mafia than speedchuck, based on your recent read on speed?

Nothing extensive. His handling of juliets is suspicious. I aim to dig in further since I won't have much to do this weekend.

[juliets]

My brain needs a break from this but I do have the same questions Tranq just asked.

speed and Tony, I just can't answer your questions about Tranq at this time, I'm sorry. Maybe later.

That's dumb. You can't even answer whether or not you think he's 3p?

And you can't tell me why you townread Tony?

speed, I don't understand your attitude at all and I can't be concerned with you thinking it's dumb.

I never said I can't tell you why I townread Tony. I like his thought process, he seems logical, he is trying to figure things out. I agree with Tranq's observation that he has shown town strategy and town paranoia. I like the cut of his jib, as Epi would say.

[juliets]

[mention]TonyStarkPrime[/mention] and [mention]Tranq[/mention] do you have any thoughts on the subject of how the teams were created on Inception Day in this game? Tony I know you were only around a short time in the original game and Tranq didn't play at all so don't feel obligated to give an opinion.

So far, we know there was at least one scum (sig) on the third level and 2 scum (JJJ, Sloonei) at least on the second level, and that leaves 2 scum and 1 indie unaccounted for. One could be speedchuck, meaning we would have had 3 non-town on level 2 (the only ones that leaves on level 2 is me, G-Man and Michelle). That leaves two unaccounted for. If there were no non-towns on level 1 that means both of you are non-town. I obviously don't believe that. Any thoughts or have I made this too complicated? (Epi don't hate me.)

[juliets]

Just want to add that on our dream level Sloonei explained that in the original game (one mafia team) the mafia picked which of their team went to each level (though the hosts tried to make sure there was mafia on each level) and the town was randomized, though they made some exceptions. In that game the bottom level was one town, one mafia, one indie. In this game I think sig (sig and Jay really) could pick where the Anti-Monitors would go but it doesn't make sense to me that he would have picked where everyone went. I would think the hosts would have wanted some balance, and not have the top level - the only one where someone was going to get lynched - be all town and maybe an indie.

[speedchuck]

My brain needs a break from this but I do have the same questions Tranq just asked.

speed and Tony, I just can't answer your questions about Tranq at this time, I'm sorry. Maybe later.

That's dumb. You can't even answer whether or not you think he's 3p?

And you can't tell me why you townread Tony?

speed, I don't understand your attitude at all and I can't be concerned with you thinking it's dumb.

I never said I can't tell you why I townread Tony. I like his thought process, he seems logical, he is trying to figure things out. I agree with Tranq's observation that he has shown town strategy and town paranoia. I like the cut of his jib, as Epi would say.

This is day 9. A toneread is not enough.

[speedchuck]

When I say 'toneread' I mean you're reading Tony based on his thought process, approach, logical-ness, etc. Rather than Master's compatibility and vote placement, and posts that specifically happened in this game.

It's not that I don't care about any of that. But it's not exactly something I'd use at this point in the game. "I like the way you play" is not enough. People didn't like the way G-man or Colin played. People liked the way Jay played.

[Tranq]

@TonyStarkPrime and @Tranq do you have any thoughts on the subject of how the teams were created on Inception Day in this game? Tony I know you were only around a short time in the original game and Tranq didn't play at all so don't feel obligated to give an opinion.

So far, we know there was at least one scum (sig) on the third level and 2 scum (JJJ, Sloonei) at least on the second level, and that leaves 2 scum and 1 indie unaccounted for. One could be speedchuck, meaning we would have had 3 non-town on level 2 (the only ones that leaves on level 2 is me, G-Man and Michelle). That leaves two unaccounted for. If there were no non-towns on level 1 that means both of you are non-town. I obviously don't believe that. Any thoughts or have I made this too complicated? (Epi don't hate me.)

I haven't given much thought to the Inception part of this game. If you think it's something that supports your suspicion of someone, i mean sure. But i wouldn't risk the outcome of this game on it.

Out of the top level, only Epignosis and tedxtr are alive right now. Everyone else is dead, all of them civs. So yes, one of them is likely mafia. But i didn't need an Inception theory to figure that out.

[TonyStarkPrime]

When I say 'toneread' I mean you're reading Tony based on his thought process, approach, logical-ness, etc. Rather than Master's compatibility and vote placement, and posts that specifically happened in this game.

It's not that I don't care about any of that. But it's not exactly something I'd use at this point in the game. "I like the way you play" is not enough. People didn't like the way G-man or Colin played. People liked the way Jay played.

I’ll make it easy. I was an AM suspect. I fought hard to get Mac lynched. I’m not the AM. Easy. Town.

[speedchuck]

Positions, compatibility, votes.

We have a lot that JJJ has given us, and no reason to think we was insincere about it (since he was trying to get the other scumteam instead of him.)
We have two Masters dead.
Nine days of votes.
Nine nights of actions.

I feel like we should be able to figure this out instead of POEing a shakily-read scumteam based on townreads of 'I like their efforts/strategy.'

Which, incidentally, is why I haven't voted yet.

[speedchuck]

Thanks Tony, even if it's from you, that insight gives me something to look into.

If Mac is scum and is giving up, his team is voting for him or soon will be.

I didn't see many posts before this in your ISO that strongly argued for a mac lynch. I might be wrong, as a lot of things are out of context, but there were several 'lynch another master instead of Mac because mac is useful' posts.

I was not around for those days. Care to speak to the following?
(I have bad looking posts around the time, so I'd like to hear it out.)

I’ll vote Radishes over Mac. I think a Mac lynch is wildly random, he’s at least hunting. In multiball or whatever that might be less effective, but I think his insight has been good.

I think our best option today is to lynch someone who has high equity for being on the master’s team with Mac and also without Mac.

That sounds stupid so let’s phrase this differently:
If Mac is scum, is there anyone who is surely also scum?
Lynch them instead.
Mac has a very limited range of possibilities and if we lynch him on autopilot and we’re wrong we risk having no leads on what will soon be a fully powered scum team.

Tony, I have no idea what you're talking about tbh. That is super confusing to me

Lemme have my science project

Short: I am a contrarian and don’t think we should lynch Mac or G-Man/Sig and am looking for a good other option.

I think everyone was confused at the time, too, but I wasn't completely around. You did vote on/off for Mac during all this, and Mac self-voted/gave up sometime during it.

Basically I am confused.

[speedchuck]

Note I'm not accusing you here, I'm verifying your defense.

[juliets]

When I say 'toneread' I mean you're reading Tony based on his thought process, approach, logical-ness, etc. Rather than Master's compatibility and vote placement, and posts that specifically happened in this game.

It's not that I don't care about any of that. But it's not exactly something I'd use at this point in the game. "I like the way you play" is not enough. People didn't like the way G-man or Colin played. People liked the way Jay played.

His votes are:

- Day 1: Dizzy. He did not vote for Master Radish but we know he is not an Anti-Monitor. nutella also got a lot of votes but we know she was indie that day so I don't see an argument that he should have voted there. I don't mind this vote, it was Day 1.

- Day 2: He voted Master Radish. No problems here, this was a good vote.

- Day 3: He voted Macdougall. This was also a good vote, and at this point he's voted for both teams.

- Day 4: He voted for sig in the lowest dream level. There was really no other choice on this day in this level.

- Day 5: He voted for sig again.

- Day 6: He voted for you along with G-Man, Colin, and Turnip Head while the rest of us were voting Colin out.

- Day 7: The poll doesn't exist but I'm pretty sure this was the day we thought G-Man had a bomb because he was voting for himself and not moving so we were trying to enact a counter plan. I voted for G-Man and Tony voted for you iirc.

- Day 8: No poll. [mention]TonyStarkPrime[/mention] I don't think you voted Jay but I could be wrong and you switched before the day ended. Can you provide the answer for this day?

So speed, from Tony's voting I would peg him as town, maybe indie but not mafia on either team.

[TonyStarkPrime]

Thanks Tony, even if it's from you, that insight gives me something to look into.

If Mac is scum and is giving up, his team is voting for him or soon will be.

I didn't see many posts before this in your ISO that strongly argued for a mac lynch. I might be wrong, as a lot of things are out of context, but there were several 'lynch another master instead of Mac because mac is useful' posts.

I was not around for those days. Care to speak to the following?
(I have bad looking posts around the time, so I'd like to hear it out.)

I’ll vote Radishes over Mac. I think a Mac lynch is wildly random, he’s at least hunting. In multiball or whatever that might be less effective, but I think his insight has been good.

I think our best option today is to lynch someone who has high equity for being on the master’s team with Mac and also without Mac.

That sounds stupid so let’s phrase this differently:
If Mac is scum, is there anyone who is surely also scum?
Lynch them instead.
Mac has a very limited range of possibilities and if we lynch him on autopilot and we’re wrong we risk having no leads on what will soon be a fully powered scum team.

Tony, I have no idea what you're talking about tbh. That is super confusing to me

Lemme have my science project

Short: I am a contrarian and don’t think we should lynch Mac or G-Man/Sig and am looking for a good other option.

I think everyone was confused at the time, too, but I wasn't completely around. You did vote on/off for Mac during all this, and Mac self-voted/gave up sometime during it.

Basically I am confused.

Initially I pitched for a non-Sig non-Mac lynch. As the day went on and Sig took over the vote count, I just realized something

[TonyStarkPrime]

Let me continue, as the day went on and Sig took over the vote count, me and Jack spent the second half of the day trying to convince people to vote for Mac over Sig.

[juliets]

Ted, what were you going to say when you said "...and as sig took over the vote count, I realized something..."? You realized what?

[TonyStarkPrime]

Ted, what were you going to say when you said "...and as sig took over the vote count, I realized something..."? You realized what?

That was me and what I realized was completely unrelated to that. I’m voting for Speed right now but I’d kinda bet on Ted / Epi?

[Epignosis]

Ted, what were you going to say when you said "...and as sig took over the vote count, I realized something..."? You realized what?

That was me and what I realized was completely unrelated to that. I’m voting for Speed right now but I’d kinda bet on Ted / Epi?

Still, what did you realize?