Assassin's Creed Mafia (OVER!)

[leetic]

What does a mafia funny gal look like?

Took me a bit of digging but I found one: http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/vbz ... p?t=151656

One game is not a large enough sample size to draw real conclusions from, but of note is that in that game, she was pretty openly accusing people right off the bat.

[Sloonei]

What does a mafia funny gal look like?

Took me a bit of digging but I found one: http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/vbz ... p?t=151656

One game is not a large enough sample size to draw real conclusions from, but of note is that in that game, she was pretty openly accusing people right off the bat.

Noted. Thank you.

I'm leaving my vote on her for now. I'd like to see her response to things.

[ts account]

I see no need for me to add my two cents on the Sloonei/TS discussion. Okay, just one cent: I'm pretty much on board with everything Sloonei said and found TS' line of reasoning lacking, but at the moment I don't particularly read him scum him for it.

Moving on...

I am interested in seeing if you bring this up wrt leetic in the future... Which I doubt.

It's early days still, but Ted is popping out to me as someone to ISO. Everytime I read his post I'm thinking along the lines of 'Can a scum make that? ...Sure'.

I'm supposed to be working right now (from home, so it's easy for me to get distracted), but next time I take a break I'll do a proper ISO.

Be aware of your confirmation bias.

I never thought "Digging into diamonds in order to find shit" was a saying but it probably describes this post.

I town read this.

Word salad. Leetic's post about Sloonei's activity at SoD felt out of place, so did his "setup speculation" post. In Sloonei's position as town, it's perfectly reasonable to ask about the absence of 2 players when it could be an issue that may cause a re-rand. If Leetic were scum though, it wouldn't be an issue because he'd know that his scum buds aren't missing so who the fuck cares about two townies missing.

I think you are right that you are reaching a bit. For me, at least, the simple principle that the game stays within the game and the out-of-game stays out-of-game is important. So, I would avoid talking about potential mod errors in the thread. In this particular case, it is not like we can do anything with any information we may gain so I really do not think this makes leetic scum. Besides, leetic ocassionally does not make sense, but that doesn't always mean scum for leetic.

ok i gotta ask what's up with radish and turnip accs viewing the thread

at first i saw a turnip and was like "cool" but now there's also a radish and does the syndicate have a root vegetable fetish?

I'm named after a quote from the television show LOST. I actually have no idea where Master Radishes came from, though I did catch him as scum from like his second post in the last game

What do you think, FG? Is this a lost wolf soft?

You could argue in a post-modern mafia setting that going after someone for mechanics talk is the new low hanging fruit. I don't think your suspicion of sloonei for this looks particularly genuine. It's an easy suspicion to fake early and you haven't really let it go, like you're afraid what it would look like if you backed down here

I do not care what you think, especially since it is wrong.

This is my concern with TS too. I don't scum-read him for his overall reasoning/argument, as poor as I found it, but equally I don't get why I've seen one or two people say he and Sloonei must be civ/civ, as his general stubbornness does feel a bit like a scum who doesn't want to be seen backtracking.

This is not a strong enough feeling for me to commit to an SR, as basing a read off a single prolonged discussion is not, in my experience, always the best tell. I'd rather see him get engaged in different discussions first.

This post is a problem because it implies that I somehow need to backtrack. Sloonei's case on me was pretty bad, so I have a light scum read on them. This feels like a setup to be able to pivot onto me later in the day. I have no need to backtrack, and the suggestion that I do need to do so seems bizarre, perhaps TMI.

Horrendous Sloonei vote.

>votes Sloonei for setup speculation
> votes Mikey for pushing Sloonei for setup speculation when Mikey was speculating himself
> ends up on Mikey

Mikey = ts account

Also, it all feels contrived and fake and very surface level. Like he had no real suspicion in the first place. He just bounced out between reads even though it made no sense from a logical standpoint.

I have no issue with leetic's vote on Sloonei. It was a random vote to kick things off, and that's fine. In a vacuum it doesn't stand out to me.

But I agree that his transition to Mikey felt a bit...opportunistic?

The intention of the posts themselves was not to speculate about mechanics. That particular post was me realizing that it was probably not a host error, and a search for answers among the folks who knew the theme better than I do. I don’t actually give a shit what the speculative mechanics might be. I just care that the possibility for mechanics exists.

Now explain why my mindset is not indicative of an honest civilian.

Suppose you were given the information that a mechanic exists that removes the two players from the player list, they cannot be voted on or targeted with actions, and they cannot post.
Where do you go from there?

Funnygurl, please tell me you are not a wolf.

Y'know, this post is a bit weird. Mikey is calling out Sloonei for setup speculation, yet when you look at the first paragraph, that's exactly what he's doing here

Care to explain?

Leetic's post here caught my eye when I read through it first time around. He is essentially, at this point, edging into an ongoing debate to fan the flames a bit, but trying to appear very casual about it, e.g. phrases like 'y'know' and 'care to explain?' and even the word 'weird' which is very vague.


I know Sloonei liked Leetic's progression, and I see what Sloon is saying about it, but this post from Leetic is still a bit...weird, IMO.

This is very small but the usage of the word "weird" after saying weird is vague is towny.

Mikey's behavior is weird, last game when he was town he wasn't going after the people doing setup speculation despite the fact that there was a lot going on. And what's with this business about pocketing, like of course I'm not going to discount the possibility of someone being scum just because they townread me. Now I'm voting Mikey for this reason.

That's cool. Are you in particular worried about me pocketing you? Just answer the question. It's not like it could hurt you to answer, right?

No, and any player who knows me will tell you that I'm not particularly easy to pocket. But why even ask me in the first place, this seems like a weird question to ask to someone who asked a question to you

The post where you flipped on me seemed a lot like a reaction to a potential threat of pocketing. If that wasn't the case, then I don't really understand your post as much. I town read you, then you flip around and call me out for agreeing with you and then accuse me of setup discussion (rofl), which I interpreted as that fear of pocketing. If you are not, then perhaps the turnip and radish are right.

@ts account never voted Sloonei through all of this.

Why not?

I surprisingly think funnygurl is wolfier than sloonei at this juncture.

Reads on a few more active players:

Dragomir: I think a lot of his posts have been more CWAC. I mean, there's very little that he has posted that Sloonei hadn't already posted, and he's only interacting with the same people that Sloonei had been. GTH scum, because I do not see him making his own content.

Funnygurl: Likely town, seems similar to her town play in the hydra game.

Master Radishes: I do like their posts so far, does seem like they are trying to solve the game and approaching multiple players, so town read.

Sloonei: I'd say town, as he is now trying to get discussion going.

tedxtr: I honestly am not a fan of this slot, I explained why their vote for me was kinda lame and I don't really like his "Was to shoot shit around, I wanted to bait a reaction or something", it seems like backtracking given that his initial vote for me was laden with the same amount of reasoning. Scum read for sure.

ts account: His play in this game is much different than what I'm used to, he's much more tunnelly than he usually is and is much less casual during D1. I haven't seen his scum play yet, but I wouldn't be surprised if this is it.

You do not know me very well at all it seems.
I do not like the casualness of this sloonei read and funnygurl read. In particular, you cannot give funnygurl a throwaway tone read, as her scum play is quite good. I like your drago and ted reads, even if I do not necessarily agree with the conclusion of the latter. Perhaps you could go back and fetch quotes for funnygurl and sloonei that made you think they were town.

Are you incriminating me for mindmelding with Sloonei? Is it bad that a lot of my to thoughts follow his? What am I supposed to do exactly when my thoughts agree with his own? Do you want me to force my own thoughts so I can "generate" my own content?

I don't know about anyone else, but I would very much like this.

False dichotomy.

Why?

Fair and square, except scum have a private chat in which they let their scum buds know about the mechanics of why they aren’t posting, maybe it was even said by the moderator. And I feel like scum would just ask the mod if their partner was missing because they’re more likely to think it’s some game mechanic, rather than wanting to re-rand.

It’s hard as scum to think that the mod would fuck up the scum rands.

zzzzz
Not worth talking about nor thinking about. At least not currently.

I like this post.

Why?

False dichotomy.

You could be a lazy third party?
I take it you don't consider your vote lazy. Could you expand on it some more?

--1v1 between Sloonei and Dragomir ensues, Dragomir understands my struggle, still scum reads me--

Sloonei says: "Now, why are you saying that it was not a defense of me? It was a textbook defense." This is bad because Dragomir did not say it wasn't a defense. In a nutshell, this is largely the same type of falsehoods sloonei conjured to case me.

Put it on record that leetic doesn't have an issue with me town blocking both of his scum leans, but rather because I am merely making a town block. Of 2 people. In a 15er.

I do not think this holds much credence.

It's sad that probably 3 town are arguing. Drago, ts, Sloonei. Makes me really sad.

:(

this post was made by the wolf association down your neighbourhood

This was such a classic scum post that I laughed.

Has anyone actually tried to defend LC? I'm a bit wary of the growing LC wagon at the moment as D1 wagons with little resistance rarely land on scum.

That's a zzzz from me, chief.

I do think this is an interesting point, though. Considering that there were already two votes on Sloonei at the time, he may have not wanted to appear too opportunistic. His constant tunneling that day was a waste of time especially for someone who wanted more interaction.

You really do not know me. As far as I am concerned, I am bleeding town until the wolves start to case me. If wolves town read me, everyone town reads me. I do not care how I appear to others because I know that anyone with common sense will be town reading me.

No one giving thoughts on my Ted suspicions, so I'll just pout and look at what others are looking at. .

Usually much more has happened by now. This feels weird.

Right now, [VOTE: Sloonei] aubergine. He is usually one of the more active people who tries to get stuff going, but right now his only contributions have been setup speculation. I'm not really seeing him trying to get any meaningful discussion going so I have to be suspicious.

I would also say the same about JaggedJimmyJay, but he's Schrödinger's player right now. I'll join you on the Sloonei vote, he has three posts and they're all about an issue that's above his pay grade as a player. In A World Asunder, town Sloonei opened Day 1 with two town reads and a vote on a suspect. [VOTE: sloonei] aubergine

I have to say, this vote by LC early on isn't a great look on him. I think what bothers me is it's mostly fluff, e.g. the jokey 'Schrodinger's player' and 'pay grade' bits, and the passive 'I'll join you'. He looks like he's trying to be casual. He didn't need to reference JJJ at all there anyway, so why bother? It's just filling out his post unecessarily.

The rest of his ISO looks fairly null to me, but yeah, I get the suspicion.

The questioning of JJJ being a mention is valid, but I do not think filling out the post is the correct reasoning for it to be there.

I am still having trouble believing in ts account's gripes about me from last night. I'll try to to lay it our more clearly than it would have come across in the heat of the moment:

Spoiler: show

I have a soft mindmeld with leetic re: sloonei. However, I'm more suspicious of it because I do not think speculation of sloonei's nature is pro-town in any way. Since it is early enough in the game, this read is more of a town read on leetic than a condemnation of sloonei. I also want to point out TonyStarkPrime's callout of LongCon (and sloonei's somewhat, but Tony was not involved before this) which I think is not justified.

I can't make any more judgements until RVS is over, which is hopefully soon.

PS The submit and preview buttons are backwards.

Small early point, but his opening sentence is a small thing that I like to take note of early on. Seeking validation in reads from other players is a thing that mafia members might be inclined to do. This is not a basis for suspicion on its own, but it's something that I want to acknowledge.
Moving on to the suspicion itself, it does not come across too clearly in this post and it is framed more as a pro-leetic stance than an anti-sloonei stance. That is fine and dandy. The anti-sloon portion would come out more fully starting in his next post. To this point I am unclear on the exact nature of ts's suspicion against me; it's clear that he does not like something about my perceived mechanics talk, but he does not make any specification as to what that is, speaking in vague absolutes ("I do not think speculation of sloonei's nature is pro-town in any way." "you were framing it as a potential game mechanic, when I do not think discussion of that avenue is fruitful for town."). I am more confused than suspicious at this point. I become suspicious during his next series of posts:

Spoiler: show

The intention of the posts themselves was not to speculate about mechanics. That particular post was me realizing that it was probably not a host error, and a search for answers among the folks who knew the theme better than I do. I don’t actually give a shit what the speculative mechanics might be. I just care that the possibility for mechanics exists.

Now explain why my mindset is not indicative of an honest civilian.

Suppose you were given the information that a mechanic exists that removes the two players from the player list, they cannot be voted on or targeted with actions, and they cannot post.
Where do you go from there?

I offered my explanation of the initial posts and "mechanics talk". ts responded with what appears to be an attempted gotcha question. Except this question does not really get me at all. It misses the point, and my answer, I think, reflected as much. At this point I begin to feel like ts account is overstating a false suspicion. He is pursuing an angle that I do not believe exists. My prior responses to his grilling me for mechanics talk were "I have no real investment in this" and "I don't give a shit what the mechanics are", yet he continued to press the issue as though I was treating it as paramount.

Then leetic took a jab at him. He responded with this:

Spoiler: show

Y'know, this post is a bit weird. Mikey is calling out Sloonei for setup speculation, yet when you look at the first paragraph, that's exactly what he's doing here

Care to explain?

It is a hypothetical pointing out just how useless it is to seek clarification on whatever is going on. If it turns out to be a game mechanic, it's not like we can use that to our advantage, so we should rather focus on generating content and interacting with each other.

I call bullshit on this post right here. ts doubles down on the supposed gotcha interrogation, but the line of questioning doesn't really exist. At the time I thought his "It is a hypothetical..." statement was a bogus attempt to backtrack and re-frame his suspicion, but I can see how it connects to the initial question. I still struggle with it, though. For the same reasons as above: ts account seems to be pursuing a line of questioning without basis. He has plucked the "Mafia Talk About Mechanics" maxim out of the air and he's trying to jam it into an ill-fitting hole. He attaches the ideas of "not generating content" and "not interacting with others" to that, but doesn't go so far as to accuse me of such. However, at this point the two of us are deep into a one-on-one interaction, and when I cast a vote for him he calls it "lazy and weak".
My problem here is that on the one hand he is grandstanding about the importance of "interacting with each other" and "generating content", but on the other he scoffs and dismisses my attempts to do exactly that, after having previously made a fuss about a phantom issue involving me. When I raised this point, an attempt to move the conversation in a different direction, he returned to the phantom issue:

Spoiler: show

Here I am, interacting with you and generating content. And your response is that I'm being lazy.

I think the word is bullshit.

Go show me games where players suspecting other players for mechanical speculation were wolves. It is weird because even though I am not hard suspecting you, you still want me out of the picture sooner rather than later. The reasoning you gave is just lazy/contrived, and that's a fact.

From here his approach to me is abject denial of All Things Sloonei.

---------------------------------------------
Summary: I don't think ts account's suspicion of me reflects an accurate response to the things I have said. I will not pretend to know whether or not that's because he's lying. I think my style tends to confuse players who don't know me, and I've been genuinely misread too many times to jump to any conclusions here. But I can't shake the feeling that this is a lazy suspicion that got out of hand. In the universe where ts is bad: he saw leetic make an early accusation against a perceived easy target (Sloonei) and joined in. Sloonei swung back, ts doubled down, and then had to remain committed so as to not appear flaky, even when the initial suspicion stopped making sense.
To be clear, that is not the only way to read these interactions. But it's a possibility.

I hate you.
I will have to make a second post to respond to this.

Has anyone actually tried to defend LC? I'm a bit wary of the growing LC wagon at the moment as D1 wagons with little resistance rarely land on scum.

Growing? There's only been 2 votes on him dawg. Shit has been static.

Mindmeld...

i'm tired of explaining myself, my iso is filled with like crumbs and stuff, look through it

crumbs not as in crumbs claiming a PR and having an inno on ts but like, crumbs of explanations

i kind of feel like dropping naked votes this game really

This is a towny post and something that I relate to on a spiritual level.

[VOTE: funnygurl555] aubergine

Why? Why not LC?

I want us to talk about something different. What has Funnygurl done that makes her town?

I was going to go here a few minutes ago, ISOed her, and found nothing much to comment on. She threw a few reads out, but nothing that struck me one way or another.

Maybe that, itself, is something to comment on. Let me join you. [VOTE: Funnygurl555] aubergine

This is very bad.

What does a mafia funny gal look like?

An awful lot like town funnygurl, but slightly more WIM, I believe. It is hard to say for sure.

[Master Radishes]

I'll need to re-read TS' post again, but it seemed to me to flip flop quite a lot and I disagree with a lot of his conclusions/counterpoints, at least those in regard to me/Ted, which my eyes focused on.

[ts account]

Dragomir- scum lean
Epignosis- null
Funnygurl555- scum lean
leetic- town
Long Con- light town
MacDougall- null
Master Radishes- null
Sloonei- scum lean
speedchuck- null
tedxtr- light town
ts account- town
TonyStarkPrime- null
Turnip Head- null

There are a few players who are likely town who simply have not posted enough for me to get a reasonable read on them- speedchuck and epignosis I would GTH town.
Ted is a problem because their reads don't make sense. Radishes sounds towny in a vacuum but this weird concept of me backtracking must have come from somewhere and I am leery of that. I am probably wrong on sloonei but I will take to task the dismantling of his case anyway. Overall I see a lot of "probably town" simply doing scummy things.

[ts account]

I am still having trouble believing in ts account's gripes about me from last night. I'll try to to lay it our more clearly than it would have come across in the heat of the moment:

Spoiler: show

I have a soft mindmeld with leetic re: sloonei. However, I'm more suspicious of it because I do not think speculation of sloonei's nature is pro-town in any way. Since it is early enough in the game, this read is more of a town read on leetic than a condemnation of sloonei. I also want to point out TonyStarkPrime's callout of LongCon (and sloonei's somewhat, but Tony was not involved before this) which I think is not justified.

I can't make any more judgements until RVS is over, which is hopefully soon.

PS The submit and preview buttons are backwards.

Small early point, but his opening sentence is a small thing that I like to take note of early on. Seeking validation in reads from other players is a thing that mafia members might be inclined to do. This is not a basis for suspicion on its own, but it's something that I want to acknowledge.
Moving on to the suspicion itself, it does not come across too clearly in this post and it is framed more as a pro-leetic stance than an anti-sloonei stance. That is fine and dandy. The anti-sloon portion would come out more fully starting in his next post. To this point I am unclear on the exact nature of ts's suspicion against me; it's clear that he does not like something about my perceived mechanics talk, but he does not make any specification as to what that is, speaking in vague absolutes ("I do not think speculation of sloonei's nature is pro-town in any way." "you were framing it as a potential game mechanic, when I do not think discussion of that avenue is fruitful for town."). I am more confused than suspicious at this point. I become suspicious during his next series of posts:

Spoiler: show

The intention of the posts themselves was not to speculate about mechanics. That particular post was me realizing that it was probably not a host error, and a search for answers among the folks who knew the theme better than I do. I don’t actually give a shit what the speculative mechanics might be. I just care that the possibility for mechanics exists.

Now explain why my mindset is not indicative of an honest civilian.

Suppose you were given the information that a mechanic exists that removes the two players from the player list, they cannot be voted on or targeted with actions, and they cannot post.
Where do you go from there?

I offered my explanation of the initial posts and "mechanics talk". ts responded with what appears to be an attempted gotcha question. Except this question does not really get me at all. It misses the point, and my answer, I think, reflected as much. At this point I begin to feel like ts account is overstating a false suspicion. He is pursuing an angle that I do not believe exists. My prior responses to his grilling me for mechanics talk were "I have no real investment in this" and "I don't give a shit what the mechanics are", yet he continued to press the issue as though I was treating it as paramount.

Then leetic took a jab at him. He responded with this:

Spoiler: show

Y'know, this post is a bit weird. Mikey is calling out Sloonei for setup speculation, yet when you look at the first paragraph, that's exactly what he's doing here

Care to explain?

It is a hypothetical pointing out just how useless it is to seek clarification on whatever is going on. If it turns out to be a game mechanic, it's not like we can use that to our advantage, so we should rather focus on generating content and interacting with each other.

I call bullshit on this post right here. ts doubles down on the supposed gotcha interrogation, but the line of questioning doesn't really exist. At the time I thought his "It is a hypothetical..." statement was a bogus attempt to backtrack and re-frame his suspicion, but I can see how it connects to the initial question. I still struggle with it, though. For the same reasons as above: ts account seems to be pursuing a line of questioning without basis. He has plucked the "Mafia Talk About Mechanics" maxim out of the air and he's trying to jam it into an ill-fitting hole. He attaches the ideas of "not generating content" and "not interacting with others" to that, but doesn't go so far as to accuse me of such. However, at this point the two of us are deep into a one-on-one interaction, and when I cast a vote for him he calls it "lazy and weak".
My problem here is that on the one hand he is grandstanding about the importance of "interacting with each other" and "generating content", but on the other he scoffs and dismisses my attempts to do exactly that, after having previously made a fuss about a phantom issue involving me. When I raised this point, an attempt to move the conversation in a different direction, he returned to the phantom issue:

Spoiler: show

Here I am, interacting with you and generating content. And your response is that I'm being lazy.

I think the word is bullshit.

Go show me games where players suspecting other players for mechanical speculation were wolves. It is weird because even though I am not hard suspecting you, you still want me out of the picture sooner rather than later. The reasoning you gave is just lazy/contrived, and that's a fact.

From here his approach to me is abject denial of All Things Sloonei.

---------------------------------------------
Summary: I don't think ts account's suspicion of me reflects an accurate response to the things I have said. I will not pretend to know whether or not that's because he's lying. I think my style tends to confuse players who don't know me, and I've been genuinely misread too many times to jump to any conclusions here. But I can't shake the feeling that this is a lazy suspicion that got out of hand. In the universe where ts is bad: he saw leetic make an early accusation against a perceived easy target (Sloonei) and joined in. Sloonei swung back, ts doubled down, and then had to remain committed so as to not appear flaky, even when the initial suspicion stopped making sense.
To be clear, that is not the only way to read these interactions. But it's a possibility.

Right off the bat, when I give credit to another player's read, you call it seeking validation. So we can see that this entire case is likely built on bad faith, where everything is spun in a negative light to make me look worse than I truly am. Moving on... what about my hypothetical question was a gotcha? It seems you are being too self-aware and trying not to fall for traps, then. It was honest and straightforward. I meant what I said and I said what I meant. And you think it's fake. Okay... sure. Your vote on me- I did not call it lazy and weak. I called the reasoning supporting it lazy and weak, which it is. Voting somebody for a level 1 read is lazy.
Basically, you have somehow managed to build a case on me built on complete lies or half truths, and you have a complete refusal to consider worlds in which I am town from the get-go. Your word choice betrays this.

[Master Radishes]

Radishes sounds towny in a vacuum but this weird concept of me backtracking must have come from somewhere and I am leery of that.

It came from the hypothetical concept of scum!TS getting too deep into his argument with Sloon and wanting to disengage but without coming across as backtracking.

In other words, I was imagining you're a wolf and I could see that world existing. I'm not claiming this definitely is the case.

[Sloonei]

[mention]ts account[/mention] right off the bat 2.0, yeah, I am spinning everything negatively. That is the point of the exercise. It's not a nefarious agenda. When I make a case like that, I am asking myself whether or not I can see the player as mafia in each post. If the answer is yes, I share my interpretation of their possible mafia motives. That is what I did with your posts. I acknowledged in the post that there are other explanations. But I have concerns and I voiced them.

[Master Radishes]

[VOTE: funnygurl555] aubergine

Why? Why not LC?

I want us to talk about something different. What has Funnygurl done that makes her town?

Her play style reflects that of a town than a scum.

Her play style is completely null.

I accept meta info from leetic, but that doesn't mean it's a bad vote right now.

[Sloonei]

Summary: I don't think ts account's suspicion of me reflects an accurate response to the things I have said. I will not pretend to know whether or not that's because he's lying. I think my style tends to confuse players who don't know me, and I've been genuinely misread too many times to jump to any conclusions here. But I can't shake the feeling that this is a lazy suspicion that got out of hand. In the universe where ts is bad: he saw leetic make an early accusation against a perceived easy target (Sloonei) and joined in. Sloonei swung back, ts doubled down, and then had to remain committed so as to not appear flaky, even when the initial suspicion stopped making sense.
To be clear, that is not the only way to read these interactions. But it's a possibility.

[tedxtr]

If my reads don't make sense, why are you reading me?

was it just that one post

[ts account]

Radishes sounds towny in a vacuum but this weird concept of me backtracking must have come from somewhere and I am leery of that.

It came from the hypothetical concept of scum!TS getting too deep into his argument with Sloon and wanting to disengage but without coming across as backtracking.

In other words, I was imagining you're a wolf and I could see that world existing. I'm not claiming this definitely is the case.

Why would I want to disengage when I've found potential scum? I surely would have liked sloonei to have better faith in the 1v1, but when I am town I struggle to see other player's perceptions of me as wolf. They appear baseless to me.

[ts account]

@ts account right off the bat 2.0, yeah, I am spinning everything negatively. That is the point of the exercise. It's not a nefarious agenda. When I make a case like that, I am asking myself whether or not I can see the player as mafia in each post. If the answer is yes, I share my interpretation of their possible mafia motives. That is what I did with your posts. I acknowledged in the post that there are other explanations. But I have concerns and I voiced them.

You do not seem interested in pursuing these other possibilities, therefore you do not seem interested in truly scumhunting.

[Sloonei]

@ts account right off the bat 2.0, yeah, I am spinning everything negatively. That is the point of the exercise. It's not a nefarious agenda. When I make a case like that, I am asking myself whether or not I can see the player as mafia in each post. If the answer is yes, I share my interpretation of their possible mafia motives. That is what I did with your posts. I acknowledged in the post that there are other explanations. But I have concerns and I voiced them.

You do not seem interested in pursuing these other possibilities, therefore you do not seem interested in truly scumhunting.

I am interested in pursuing the angles that I am concerned about. That is how I scumhunt.

[Sloonei]

I don't care about this though. Continue to talk about other things and I'll see how I feel.

[ts account]

If my reads don't make sense, why are you reading me?

was it just that one post

I worry perhaps I am simply town reading anyone who town reads me and scum reading anyone who scum reads me, and I try to remove that bias. What I see is towny sentiment and a piece of myself behind posts like "digging through diamonds to find the crap" or "I already said go read my ISO". I put a lot of faith in statements like this being from stubborn town, and the only real mark against you is the seemingly out-of-nowhere decision that I am town. It seems you are loathe to consider that any remotely vocal or emotional player could be scum.

[ts account]

@ts account right off the bat 2.0, yeah, I am spinning everything negatively. That is the point of the exercise. It's not a nefarious agenda. When I make a case like that, I am asking myself whether or not I can see the player as mafia in each post. If the answer is yes, I share my interpretation of their possible mafia motives. That is what I did with your posts. I acknowledged in the post that there are other explanations. But I have concerns and I voiced them.

You do not seem interested in pursuing these other possibilities, therefore you do not seem interested in truly scumhunting.

I am interested in pursuing the angles that I am concerned about. That is how I scumhunt.

I don't believe you are town from this.

[ts account]

[VOTE: sloonei] aubergine

[Sloonei]

@ts account right off the bat 2.0, yeah, I am spinning everything negatively. That is the point of the exercise. It's not a nefarious agenda. When I make a case like that, I am asking myself whether or not I can see the player as mafia in each post. If the answer is yes, I share my interpretation of their possible mafia motives. That is what I did with your posts. I acknowledged in the post that there are other explanations. But I have concerns and I voiced them.

You do not seem interested in pursuing these other possibilities, therefore you do not seem interested in truly scumhunting.

I am interested in pursuing the angles that I am concerned about. That is how I scumhunt.

I don't believe you are town from this.

Why not?

[ts account]

@ts account right off the bat 2.0, yeah, I am spinning everything negatively. That is the point of the exercise. It's not a nefarious agenda. When I make a case like that, I am asking myself whether or not I can see the player as mafia in each post. If the answer is yes, I share my interpretation of their possible mafia motives. That is what I did with your posts. I acknowledged in the post that there are other explanations. But I have concerns and I voiced them.

You do not seem interested in pursuing these other possibilities, therefore you do not seem interested in truly scumhunting.

I am interested in pursuing the angles that I am concerned about. That is how I scumhunt.

I don't believe you are town from this.

Why not?

It is a good way to powerlynch townies.

[Long Con]

Sometimes you have to vote without giving a reason. You've got to tickle their balls a little.

LC especially needs ball tickling. His first couple of posts looked fun, but after he voted for Sloonei and got questioned for it his energy just died. Ever since then each post has been ineffectual defense without any of that town spark.

Fair enough, ball tickling is legit.

I'm not usually the high-energy star of Day 1, either alignment. Too many divas out there to compete with, I listen more than I talk.

What are your thoughts on the Sloonei/ts account drama?

I need to go over it again, my initial recollection is Much Ado About Nothing.

[Long Con]

... or possibly a distancing act?

[ts account]

... or possibly a distancing act?

What?

[Turnip Head]

I feel the need, the need for Creed

[Long Con]

... or possibly a distancing act?

What?

If it's true that you guys are arguing over 'Nothing', then that could be it.

[Turnip Head]

... or possibly a distancing act?

[Dragomir]

Dragomir- scum lean
Epignosis- null
Funnygurl555- scum lean
leetic- town
Long Con- light town
MacDougall- null
Master Radishes- null
Sloonei- scum lean
speedchuck- null
tedxtr- light town
ts account- town
TonyStarkPrime- null
Turnip Head- null

There are a few players who are likely town who simply have not posted enough for me to get a reasonable read on them- speedchuck and epignosis I would GTH town.
Ted is a problem because their reads don't make sense. Radishes sounds towny in a vacuum but this weird concept of me backtracking must have come from somewhere and I am leery of that. I am probably wrong on sloonei but I will take to task the dismantling of his case anyway. Overall I see a lot of "probably town" simply doing scummy things.

I hate all your leans.

[Dragomir]

Dragomir- scum lean
Epignosis- null
Funnygurl555- scum lean
leetic- town
Long Con- light town
MacDougall- null
Master Radishes- null
Sloonei- scum lean
speedchuck- null
tedxtr- light town
ts account- town
TonyStarkPrime- null
Turnip Head- null

There are a few players who are likely town who simply have not posted enough for me to get a reasonable read on them- speedchuck and epignosis I would GTH town.
Ted is a problem because their reads don't make sense. Radishes sounds towny in a vacuum but this weird concept of me backtracking must have come from somewhere and I am leery of that. I am probably wrong on sloonei but I will take to task the dismantling of his case anyway. Overall I see a lot of "probably town" simply doing scummy things.

I hate all your leans.

[Turnip Head]

so precise he posted it twice

[ts account]

Dragomir- scum lean
Epignosis- null
Funnygurl555- scum lean
leetic- town
Long Con- light town
MacDougall- null
Master Radishes- null
Sloonei- scum lean
speedchuck- null
tedxtr- light town
ts account- town
TonyStarkPrime- null
Turnip Head- null

There are a few players who are likely town who simply have not posted enough for me to get a reasonable read on them- speedchuck and epignosis I would GTH town.
Ted is a problem because their reads don't make sense. Radishes sounds towny in a vacuum but this weird concept of me backtracking must have come from somewhere and I am leery of that. I am probably wrong on sloonei but I will take to task the dismantling of his case anyway. Overall I see a lot of "probably town" simply doing scummy things.

I hate all your leans.

It is a good thing I did not make them to appease you, then

[Dragomir]

Dragomir- scum lean
Epignosis- null
Funnygurl555- scum lean
leetic- town
Long Con- light town
MacDougall- null
Master Radishes- null
Sloonei- scum lean
speedchuck- null
tedxtr- light town
ts account- town
TonyStarkPrime- null
Turnip Head- null

There are a few players who are likely town who simply have not posted enough for me to get a reasonable read on them- speedchuck and epignosis I would GTH town.
Ted is a problem because their reads don't make sense. Radishes sounds towny in a vacuum but this weird concept of me backtracking must have come from somewhere and I am leery of that. I am probably wrong on sloonei but I will take to task the dismantling of his case anyway. Overall I see a lot of "probably town" simply doing scummy things.

I hate all your leans.

It is a good thing I did not make them to appease you, then

Why are you scum leaning all of my town reads? A complete opposite of what I have.

[Turnip Head]

@ts account right off the bat 2.0, yeah, I am spinning everything negatively. That is the point of the exercise. It's not a nefarious agenda. When I make a case like that, I am asking myself whether or not I can see the player as mafia in each post. If the answer is yes, I share my interpretation of their possible mafia motives. That is what I did with your posts. I acknowledged in the post that there are other explanations. But I have concerns and I voiced them.

You do not seem interested in pursuing these other possibilities, therefore you do not seem interested in truly scumhunting.

I feel like you're talking about yourself. You don't seem interested in pursuing anything other than Sloonei being scum which has snowballed from the beginning of the game

[Long Con]

... or possibly a distancing act?

[Turnip Head]

sloonei and ts being w/w is my new favorite conspiracy theory

[ts account]

@ts account right off the bat 2.0, yeah, I am spinning everything negatively. That is the point of the exercise. It's not a nefarious agenda. When I make a case like that, I am asking myself whether or not I can see the player as mafia in each post. If the answer is yes, I share my interpretation of their possible mafia motives. That is what I did with your posts. I acknowledged in the post that there are other explanations. But I have concerns and I voiced them.

You do not seem interested in pursuing these other possibilities, therefore you do not seem interested in truly scumhunting.

I feel like you're talking about yourself. You don't seem interested in pursuing anything other than Sloonei being scum which has snowballed from the beginning of the game

That snowballing feeling you mention, you notice it because I have been keeping an open mind, and if you look at some of my posts you can see I postulate alternatives for sloonei's behavior, but ultimately the scumminess keeps piling on. I do not think I can ignore it at this point.

[ts account]

Why are you scum leaning all of my town reads? A complete opposite of what I have.

It probably has to do with how bad I am at scumhunting.

[Master Radishes]

... or possibly a distancing act?

Bad take.

[Master Radishes]

I just...completely disagree with everything TS says. I don't know what to do about that.

[ts account]

I'll need to re-read TS' post again, but it seemed to me to flip flop quite a lot and I disagree with a lot of his conclusions/counterpoints, at least those in regard to me/Ted, which my eyes focused on.

I think this is a good look for you, at least. I wonder if you could do a better job of explaining why your mind was on backtracking wrt me on sloonei.

[tedxtr]

I feel like LC is playing scummy on purpose

[ts account]

I need to go over it again, my initial recollection is Much Ado About Nothing.

Was it you who used the phrase much ado about nothing earlier? I thought it was sloonei.

[Turnip Head]

[mention]ts account[/mention] It's not impossible for me to view Sloon as bad actually, I just like how fired up he got after he was called out. He got real defensive real quick which I associate with town sloon. Not sure if I should see it like that or if I just don't want him to be bad for whatever reason.

[Master Radishes]

I'll need to re-read TS' post again, but it seemed to me to flip flop quite a lot and I disagree with a lot of his conclusions/counterpoints, at least those in regard to me/Ted, which my eyes focused on.

I think this is a good look for you, at least. I wonder if you could do a better job of explaining why your mind was on backtracking wrt me on sloonei.

I have explained it. It was a hypothetical if-TS-is-scum-then... situation. I was commenting that, if you are scum, then your progression is one where you refused to back down from your argument out of fear of being called out on backing down. If you are town then you are just locked on to a target. But I was looking at a scum!TS world because that's what the discussion at the time was about.

[Turnip Head]

LC playing scummy on purpose is not his civ MO

[ts account]

I'll need to re-read TS' post again, but it seemed to me to flip flop quite a lot and I disagree with a lot of his conclusions/counterpoints, at least those in regard to me/Ted, which my eyes focused on.

I think this is a good look for you, at least. I wonder if you could do a better job of explaining why your mind was on backtracking wrt me on sloonei.

I have explained it. It was a hypothetical if-TS-is-scum-then... situation. I was commenting that, if you are scum, then your progression is one where you refused to back down from your argument out of fear of being called out on backing down. If you are town then you are just locked on to a target. But I was looking at a scum!TS world because that's what the discussion at the time was about.

I did say a better job... I struggle understanding why scum TS feels a desire to back down from sloonei, and why scum TS fails to do so. Can you respond to those points sufficiently? Feel free to drag quotes from my ISO.

[Turnip Head]

I started the day more likely to vote Mikey and now I'm thinking of voting for Sloonei. It's not hard to view Sloonei's behavior through the lens where he's bad

[Turnip Head]

The hell is Epignosis? I thought he was made of free time right now

[Turnip Head]

Unlike yours truly who is still working two jobs six days a week

[Sloonei]

It is a good way to powerlynch townies.

Here is the angle from which I see you as town:
You had a standard early Day 1 suspicion of me, and when I refuted it vehemently you responded with negative emotional energy. That negative emotional energy resulted in an "OMGUS", in your own words, which you have been unable to be swayed off of. This is understandable: I'd wager that my approach to the game is atypical based on your experience, and that the way I have handled my read on you reflects what you have perceived elsewhere in the past to be a "power wolf" trying to capitalize on some early momentum to get a vocal civilian lynched.

I did not make a big post detailing this possibility because there's nothing to pursue there. If I want to test my read on you, it is more fruitful to test the negative aspect of it. By positing my reasons for suspecting you, rather than the reasons to town read you, we can all explore the possibility that you have been lying, and also assess whether or not the basis of my suspicion is valid or honest as well. Again, this is how I scumhunt.
That said, I did touch on some of this here.

We have almost certainly gotten off on the wrong foot in this game. I acknowledge that I might be unconventional, but it is not my intention to hammer away at a single player. The volume of my content about you should not be mistaken for me having a confident read on you one way or the other. When I ask questions and when I offer speculations, I am genuinely looking for people to respond to me, especially the person I'm talking to/about. I apologize if I've come off as overly aggressive or hostile. That is not how I intend to play.

[Sloonei]

I started the day more likely to vote Mikey and now I'm thinking of voting for Sloonei. It's not hard to view Sloonei's behavior through the lens where he's bad

Let us not.