Assassin's Creed Mafia (OVER!)

[Funnygurl555]

I kind of want the Sloonei and ts shit to stop, there's already information to infer stuff from and quite frankly I think they're both town.

he tries to move the discussion from the unproductive mikey x sloonei scenario which i hella agree with. sloonei and mikey are tvt for me, and them blowing up the thread with their fighting wasn't productive and a good opportunity for wolves to go utr. good

idk man sloonei strikes me as the type to be too sneaky to drop a tell like that

i like ted that leetic vote was SPICY

I didn't even state my reasoning, why do you like the vote?

he's suspicious of me liking his leetic vote (already mentioned, but ya that's townie right? wolves would just be like "ayy look at me a town likes me")

Fair and square, except scum have a private chat in which they let their scum buds know about the mechanics of why they aren’t posting, maybe it was even said by the moderator. And I feel like scum would just ask the mod if their partner was missing because they’re more likely to think it’s some game mechanic, rather than wanting to re-rand.

It’s hard as scum to think that the mod would fuck up the scum rands.

once again this looks like he's really hunting and i appreciate it. same as the first quote i mentioned.

Post #342 and #346 seem to be confirmation bias because they show turnip is starting with the conclusion- Sloonei is scum- and then seeing the play fit into that pattern, rather than looking at the play and deciding that they are scum because xyz.

I’ve always hated reads like this, this is not how this works.

It would’ve been so if someone read Sloonei’s posts, didn’t say anything about them, then 2 days later or so they would’ve made a post, not even having thought about making that post in advance, just like “Hey, I have to make a post now! Let’s see what we can do...”

“Hmm...Let’s type in...Sloonei is scum...why? Well...”

And then he twists everything that he retained from sloonei’s posts in order to make him scum.

But most of the time what people are calling confbias is just bad structuring of posts / they want you to see what they think firsthand, rather than walking you through the process of how they got there.

unless he and th are scum buddies, what is the point of posting this as scum? not a strong indication of innocence but again it's the mindset thing

It's going from the premise Epignosis is town.

"is this a social distancing thing" is playful banter, it's not like he wants Epi to move his vote, it almost feels manipulative to the point of "I guess if I make a joke about his vote being insane, he'll double down on it"

Plus, the sorting question followed by the banter question kind of nullifies the interrogative question you know. It's not how a wolf treats his partner, I think I have some insight into Sloonei's antispew and he'd want to at least entertain the interrogatory process for a bit, follow through with more questions, whereas this is like...Defeating the purpose from the start. It's not done to actually figure out his reasoning or anything.

I don't know that's all you get, my mind is a beautiful messy place.

another good mindset post.. idk how to really analyze these posts except to show y'all that there's a consistent trend of ted really thinking and trying to solve.

do i have to keep going?

[Sloonei]

i acknowledge mac's read on funnygurl. Her stance on ted makes more sense if she is town than if she is mafia.

Now having said that, Dragomir should be the most obvious civilian in this thread right now.

[leetic]

Usually much more has happened by now. This feels weird.

Right now, [VOTE: Sloonei] aubergine. He is usually one of the more active people who tries to get stuff going, but right now his only contributions have been setup speculation. I'm not really seeing him trying to get any meaningful discussion going so I have to be suspicious.

I have a question for you. Why didn't you consider talking about mechanics to be a "getting things going" action? It was the most pressing matter at the moment because their were 2 players that signed up and weren't added to the player list. It is of something to talk about you wouldn't say?

What in your mind constitutes as getting things going? There were less than 5 ppl online at that time, everybody was trying to get their first posts in. What did you expect of Sloonei to be capable of doing at that time? I believe that you were unreasonably coming after him for not contributing when his options were very limited.

Look at a game like this one. While there was some joking in the beginning, players were still putting reads on each other right off the bat. Five hours of absolutely nothing happening was unusual for here as far as I was concerned.

Mechanical talk isn't really a "getting things going" action because it tells you nothing about the alignment of the person doing it or other people.

I disagree with that statement.
1. In the next five pages, we had 2 players go after each other purely based on one of them doing mechanical talk. Sloonei doing mechanical talk was the driving force behind his and TS's interaction. Due to this, multiple ppl could get some reads on those two. So, you could say that mechanical can get things going in a game.

2. Mechanical talk can provide excellent reads and thoughts about the game in general. It allows you to find out who just talks about the mechanics as a way to contribute all phase long instead of anything else. You can end up clearing something confusing which could affect the read that you may have on a player. If a player can use mechanical talk to further their reads and ideas then they are contributing and mechanical talk has got things going.

Tell me what else that Sloonei could have done to get things going?

I mean, it was more Mikey scumreading Sloonei that got discussion going, but I digress. We really shouldn't be arguing about this considering it died ten pages ago.

[Funnygurl555]

not to mention ted has both had suspicions and have been pushing them consistently all phase. can't say the same about many people in the game rn. not worth a wagon; not worth a lynch

[MacDougall]

[VOTE: leetic] aubergine

Why

[MacDougall]

And yet for 50 something hours I’ve managed to be the counterwagon to people like Leetic and Long Con and their wagons crumble and mine stays up although I’m the towniest motherfucker in this entire playerlist

And they’ve barely done anything

Meanwhile, FG and Mac both townlocked you and invited you to our town core. Calm your ass down and play the game without being a screaming toddler.

[Funnygurl555]

i hate it when i quickly post and notice grammatical errors it briefly eats at me

most of them are on purpose but sometimes it's an accident and it makes me feel stupid

[tedxtr]

[VOTE: Leetic ] aubergine

[ts account]

I have a soft mindmeld with leetic re: sloonei. However, I'm more suspicious of it because I do not think speculation of sloonei's nature is pro-town in any way. Since it is early enough in the game, this read is more of a town read on leetic than a condemnation of sloonei. I also want to point out TonyStarkPrime's callout of LongCon (and sloonei's somewhat, but Tony was not involved before this) which I think is not justified.

I can't make any more judgements until RVS is over, which is hopefully soon.

PS The submit and preview buttons are backwards.

I don't recall you ever following up on this tsp thought. Did something change for you on him?

I do not remember, honestly. At the time I saw players voting LongCon for something that I did not see as too out of the ordinary, and I did not feel that TSP should vote there, for some reason. In hindsight I disagree with myself quite a bit, and more agree with the version of me who questioned the mention of JJJ.

[tedxtr]

Usually much more has happened by now. This feels weird.

Right now, [VOTE: Sloonei] aubergine. He is usually one of the more active people who tries to get stuff going, but right now his only contributions have been setup speculation. I'm not really seeing him trying to get any meaningful discussion going so I have to be suspicious.

I have a question for you. Why didn't you consider talking about mechanics to be a "getting things going" action? It was the most pressing matter at the moment because their were 2 players that signed up and weren't added to the player list. It is of something to talk about you wouldn't say?

What in your mind constitutes as getting things going? There were less than 5 ppl online at that time, everybody was trying to get their first posts in. What did you expect of Sloonei to be capable of doing at that time? I believe that you were unreasonably coming after him for not contributing when his options were very limited.

Look at a game like this one. While there was some joking in the beginning, players were still putting reads on each other right off the bat. Five hours of absolutely nothing happening was unusual for here as far as I was concerned.

Mechanical talk isn't really a "getting things going" action because it tells you nothing about the alignment of the person doing it or other people.

I disagree with that statement.
1. In the next five pages, we had 2 players go after each other purely based on one of them doing mechanical talk. Sloonei doing mechanical talk was the driving force behind his and TS's interaction. Due to this, multiple ppl could get some reads on those two. So, you could say that mechanical can get things going in a game.

2. Mechanical talk can provide excellent reads and thoughts about the game in general. It allows you to find out who just talks about the mechanics as a way to contribute all phase long instead of anything else. You can end up clearing something confusing which could affect the read that you may have on a player. If a player can use mechanical talk to further their reads and ideas then they are contributing and mechanical talk has got things going.

Tell me what else that Sloonei could have done to get things going?

I mean, it was more Mikey scumreading Sloonei that got discussion going, but I digress. We really shouldn't be arguing about this considering it died ten pages ago.

My case died 20 pages ago, please state what you are doing on my wagon

[tedxtr]

Or rather, the case on me

[Sloonei]

I think we are a bit of a mess right now and the mafia team would be content to maintain the status quo. Turnip Head is a player who stands out as not rocking the boat. I don't know if that's fair to say. I am making this assessment with only one foot in the game.

I think wolves have little to no thread control and villagers are having a horrible day one.

This is such a weird thing to say at this point.

I don’t care.

If you don't care, why did you respond

I don't like this tone, it reads as uncooperative and not really engaging in the thread

This post inspired me to vote for leetic. He looks like he has decided that tedxtr is the person he wants to lynch today and is not interested in any other opinions. It doesn't look like tunneling: it looks fabricated.

[MacDougall]

i acknowledge mac's read on funnygurl. Her stance on ted makes more sense if she is town than if she is mafia.

Now having said that, Dragomir should be the most obvious civilian in this thread right now.

Would appreciate you making some effort to explain this

[MacDougall]

I think we are a bit of a mess right now and the mafia team would be content to maintain the status quo. Turnip Head is a player who stands out as not rocking the boat. I don't know if that's fair to say. I am making this assessment with only one foot in the game.

I think wolves have little to no thread control and villagers are having a horrible day one.

This is such a weird thing to say at this point.

I don’t care.

If you don't care, why did you respond

I don't like this tone, it reads as uncooperative and not really engaging in the thread

This post inspired me to vote for leetic. He looks like he has decided that tedxtr is the person he wants to lynch today and is not interested in any other opinions. It doesn't look like tunneling: it looks fabricated.

Same post gave me a town ping.

Incoming PSA.

[Turnip Head]

Like this is fucking ludicrous, everyone but me is getting pushed, Long Con is pushed, TSP is pushed, Speedchuck is pushed, and I’m still being top wagon, TH is pushed

Fucking read the game state correctly, MY WAGON IS A PAGE 2 THING AND IT HAS NO NEW EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT IT

I'd like to read the game state correctly but I'm afraid you'll just yell at me

You've never been top wagon, you are overreacting

[Turnip Head]

Okay well I guess it's at least close

[tedxtr]

I’ve always been top wagon

[Dragomir]

Y'know, this post is a bit weird. Mikey is calling out Sloonei for setup speculation, yet when you look at the first paragraph, that's exactly what he's doing here

Care to explain?

I would like to know from you. Are you worried about me pocketing you?

Mikey's behavior is weird, last game when he was town he wasn't going after the people doing setup speculation despite the fact that there was a lot going on. And what's with this business about pocketing, like of course I'm not going to discount the possibility of someone being scum just because they townread me. Now I'm voting Mikey for this reason.

Do you always just give a scum read, explain why, vote and then proceed to not actively get that person lynched? I know it was early in the DP but it's a pattern that I've seen you do. It sounds like you are more dependent on ppl agreeing with your assessment and joining the wagon. You don't seem like you actually want to get that player lynched.

[Sloonei]

I want to return to this post as well:

Reads on a few more active players:

Dragomir: I think a lot of his posts have been more CWAC. I mean, there's very little that he has posted that Sloonei hadn't already posted, and he's only interacting with the same people that Sloonei had been. GTH scum, because I do not see him making his own content.

Funnygurl: Likely town, seems similar to her town play in the hydra game.

Master Radishes: I do like their posts so far, does seem like they are trying to solve the game and approaching multiple players, so town read.

Sloonei: I'd say town, as he is now trying to get discussion going.

tedxtr: I honestly am not a fan of this slot, I explained why their vote for me was kinda lame and I don't really like his "Was to shoot shit around, I wanted to bait a reaction or something", it seems like backtracking given that his initial vote for me was laden with the same amount of reasoning. Scum read for sure.

ts account: His play in this game is much different than what I'm used to, he's much more tunnelly than he usually is and is much less casual during D1. I haven't seen his scum play yet, but I wouldn't be surprised if this is it.

No one asked for this and it did not seem like it had any direction to it. leetic just plopped down six reads on six sporadically-selected names. I could see this being the product of a big bad wolf who wants to look proactive. The reads are all pretty superficial, and we can see the seeds of his ted vote which he is still clinging to at this very moment, and which I've just highlighted as the basis for my current vote. The dragomir suspicion also seems arbitrary, and the ts read is the kind of loosely-held suspicion that I could see as a mafioso putting a pin in a case in the event that it gains momentum later on.

[tedxtr]

Like this is fucking ludicrous, everyone but me is getting pushed, Long Con is pushed, TSP is pushed, Speedchuck is pushed, and I’m still being top wagon, TH is pushed

Fucking read the game state correctly, MY WAGON IS A PAGE 2 THING AND IT HAS NO NEW EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT IT

I'd like to read the game state correctly but I'm afraid you'll just yell at me

You've never been top wagon, you are overreacting

So me not being top wagon justifies your vote on me or what? Bro, what are you doing on my wagon

[tedxtr]

Y'know, this post is a bit weird. Mikey is calling out Sloonei for setup speculation, yet when you look at the first paragraph, that's exactly what he's doing here

Care to explain?

I would like to know from you. Are you worried about me pocketing you?

Mikey's behavior is weird, last game when he was town he wasn't going after the people doing setup speculation despite the fact that there was a lot going on. And what's with this business about pocketing, like of course I'm not going to discount the possibility of someone being scum just because they townread me. Now I'm voting Mikey for this reason.

Do you always just give a scum read, explain why, vote and then proceed to not actively get that person lynched? I know it was early in the DP but it's a pattern that I've seen you do. It sounds like you are more dependent on ppl agreeing with your assessment and joining the wagon. You don't seem like you actually want to get that player lynched.

This day phase has just started to look a lot more promising.

[Sloonei]

i acknowledge mac's read on funnygurl. Her stance on ted makes more sense if she is town than if she is mafia.

Now having said that, Dragomir should be the most obvious civilian in this thread right now.

Would appreciate you making some effort to explain this

Look at what he's doing. He just threw up his hands and said "forget this!" and decided to go back to the beginning and start from scratch. I don't think that's how I'd handle the situation, but there's no way a member of any mafia team anywhere decides to do that. Drago hit the reset button for himself and he's following through with it.

[Turnip Head]

Like this is fucking ludicrous, everyone but me is getting pushed, Long Con is pushed, TSP is pushed, Speedchuck is pushed, and I’m still being top wagon, TH is pushed

Fucking read the game state correctly, MY WAGON IS A PAGE 2 THING AND IT HAS NO NEW EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT IT

I'd like to read the game state correctly but I'm afraid you'll just yell at me

You've never been top wagon, you are overreacting

So me not being top wagon justifies your vote on me or what? Bro, what are you doing on my wagon

Dude I fucking love it on this wagon. Fucking love it.

[Turnip Head]

I’ve always been top wagon

But this is patently false

[tedxtr]

Yeah I bet you do, I fucking bet

[MacDougall]

If you are a civilian, now would be a wise time to go zen mode. If you have to take some time away, do it. Screaming aloud about the irrational play of others in a way that is aggressive and bombastic is worse for thread state than anything else that has occurred. In that mindset live reads, or posting live is not advised. Either start reading your pet cases and focus on providing analysis, townsolve some people, or go do something else for a while please.

There is no value in whining or complaining about town having bad days, this kind of bullshit is worse at fostering productive and analytical thread state than that which you are complaining about. If you are a civilian doing this you are:

a) Probably triggering a civilian by needlessly criticising their natural playstyle, which is likely to only make the threadstate more hostile and worse
b) Tipping your hand to the mafia that you are falling prey to the threadstate ergo giving them strategy to paralyse your usefulness
c) Contributing to exactly that which you are complaining about

This very content that is aggravating you, these moments of chaos, are the sections of content that hold the juiciest pearls and will be very helpful for when you are conducting ISOs and case building.

And lastly, a friendly reminder that the objective of this game is to solve one another and only you truly know your rolecard. Getting aggravated for being suspected is like screaming at the sun for rising.

[MacDougall]

I want to return to this post as well:

Reads on a few more active players:

Dragomir: I think a lot of his posts have been more CWAC. I mean, there's very little that he has posted that Sloonei hadn't already posted, and he's only interacting with the same people that Sloonei had been. GTH scum, because I do not see him making his own content.

Funnygurl: Likely town, seems similar to her town play in the hydra game.

Master Radishes: I do like their posts so far, does seem like they are trying to solve the game and approaching multiple players, so town read.

Sloonei: I'd say town, as he is now trying to get discussion going.

tedxtr: I honestly am not a fan of this slot, I explained why their vote for me was kinda lame and I don't really like his "Was to shoot shit around, I wanted to bait a reaction or something", it seems like backtracking given that his initial vote for me was laden with the same amount of reasoning. Scum read for sure.

ts account: His play in this game is much different than what I'm used to, he's much more tunnelly than he usually is and is much less casual during D1. I haven't seen his scum play yet, but I wouldn't be surprised if this is it.

No one asked for this and it did not seem like it had any direction to it. leetic just plopped down six reads on six sporadically-selected names. I could see this being the product of a big bad wolf who wants to look proactive. The reads are all pretty superficial, and we can see the seeds of his ted vote which he is still clinging to at this very moment, and which I've just highlighted as the basis for my current vote. The dragomir suspicion also seems arbitrary, and the ts read is the kind of loosely-held suspicion that I could see as a mafioso putting a pin in a case in the event that it gains momentum later on.

[mention]leetic[/mention] I'd like a response to this.

[MacDougall]

i acknowledge mac's read on funnygurl. Her stance on ted makes more sense if she is town than if she is mafia.

Now having said that, Dragomir should be the most obvious civilian in this thread right now.

Would appreciate you making some effort to explain this

Look at what he's doing. He just threw up his hands and said "forget this!" and decided to go back to the beginning and start from scratch. I don't think that's how I'd handle the situation, but there's no way a member of any mafia team anywhere decides to do that. Drago hit the reset button for himself and he's following through with it.

Duly noted.

[Sloonei]

Mac is almost as obviously town as drago right now.

[Sloonei]

Same post gave me a town ping.

Incoming PSA.

why the town ping?

[MacDougall]

The TH and Ted wagons are both loaded with people I suspect while the LC and Leetic wagons both have people I have townlocked on them. The TH wagon in particular has not a single person on it I can confidently say I feel good about the alignment of. I have a feeling we have at least two scumwagons and neither of them are Turnip Head.

[Dragomir]

At this point(page 3) TH is good for me. Sloonei said something about players that participate but don't move the needle and that's exactly how he's playing. I would generally scum read somebody for playing like that(look at my previous read on TH for reference) but he's a special case imo. He comes off as relaxed and genuine with his thoughts. Even though he's not actively interacting with players and is taking a backseat, his thoughts are still meaningful and not just full of fluff very much opposite of speedchuck I might add and he's saying what's on his mind.

[TonyStarkPrime]

I have a soft mindmeld with leetic re: sloonei. However, I'm more suspicious of it because I do not think speculation of sloonei's nature is pro-town in any way. Since it is early enough in the game, this read is more of a town read on leetic than a condemnation of sloonei. I also want to point out TonyStarkPrime's callout of LongCon (and sloonei's somewhat, but Tony was not involved before this) which I think is not justified.

I can't make any more judgements until RVS is over, which is hopefully soon.

PS The submit and preview buttons are backwards.

I don't recall you ever following up on this tsp thought. Did something change for you on him?

also what did I say?

Wdym?

I was confused about what TS said

[MacDougall]

IF Sloonei is town.

Then;

I would say that towncore would be;

Sloonei
Dragomir
FG
Ted
TS Account

and I might even be willing to extend that to Turnip Head.

Then we're getting somewhere.

POE =

Epignosis, Leetic, Long Con, Radishes, Speedchuck and TonyStarkPrime

TSP
Leetic
Radishes
Epignosis
Speedchuck
Long Con

The bottom three are all on the TH wagon so cannot be the scum together. I doubt greatly that the scum are voting all together alone, most likely they are all separated. If Epignosis is scum, he's definitely likely to be out on his own. So if Epi = scum, good look for LC and Speedchuck. I don't like saying good look for LC and Speedchuck, so I give Epi townlooks for being on a wagon with them. Epi is unlikely to be a teammate of either of them if he is mafia with this wagon formation. If they are both town I'd be surprised. Epi is probably town. Speedchuck town pinged me a bit when he came in before too.

TSP
Leetic
Radishes
Epignosis
Speedchuck
Long Con

Hmmm... I think LC + Radishes + Leetic/TSP is the team.

[MacDougall]

[mention]leetic[/mention] how do you feel about Long Con and Master Radishes?

[mention]TonyStarkPrime[/mention] same question?

And how do you two feel about one another?

[MacDougall]

Sloonei is pretty adamant on Leetic ... probably just right?

If anyone wants to rush to a Leetic defense case hmu.

[Dragomir]

Okay, here are a couple posts from Ted that pinged me:

Disclaimer: it's early D1 etc etc.

@tedxtr what is your read on sloonei?

Yeah I was gonna get to that, I think you're town and I'm trying to wrap my head around the mess.

This is a cop out to talking about the (at the time) ongoing Sloonei-TS debate. 'Trying to wrap my head around the mess' comes across to me as a scum uncertain how to slip into the predominant conversation.

If ts account is [NSM] Mikey I don't remember him being this jumpy actually.

linki : I liked how you reacted to ts account's push on you, particularly one post somewhere. I guess you handled the callout pretty well, it's maybe something to do with how bad the votes on you were that deceives me into it, but idrc for now, you're sloonei.

(Quote chain that I cut)

A light shading on TS (who I assume is Mikey), followed by a rather qualified reason for TRing Sloonei. Again, just reads as someone who is hesitant to lay down solid reads.

I kind of want the Sloonei and ts shit to stop, there's already information to infer stuff from and quite frankly I think they're both town.

For one thing, it had definitely petered out by this point. But mainly, it has the tone of a scum who is trying to appear frustrated, e.g. 'quite frankly' and such phrasing.


The rest of his ISO is uninspiring. Mostly null posts that don't really indicate alignment either way, and nothing that looks townie enough to overrule my suspicions. Some of the other posts that don't sit well with me include a minor mechanics comments, a seemingly random and unexplained vote on Leetic ('this feels good for now', really?), and some weird commentary on a Mac who had barely entered the thread at that point. Even his entrance posts look a bit questionable under this light, but admittedly by this point I may be tunneling a bit.


Ted sits at the bottom of my list at the moment. I don't normally vote this early into the game, but hey, sometimes it's fun to switch things up. [VOTE: tedextr] aubergine

I believe that you stretched the fuck out of those 3 Ted posts that you quoted. Especially the first and last one. You really tried to make 'quite frankly' and 'trying to wrap my head around' look like something a scum would say even though that could easily just be a choice of wording that Ted simply wanted to type. It's not alignment indicative at all. You seriously tried to generate a scum read at Ted and I don't think it worked out too well.

A very weak case from Radish.

[Sloonei]

Sloonei is pretty adamant on Leetic ... probably just right?

If anyone wants to rush to a Leetic defense case hmu.

I do not intend to come off as adamant. This is not a rock solid vote.

[Sloonei]

I also do not feel like this is the same radish we saw in the goc.

[Dragomir]

Horrendous Sloonei vote.

>votes Sloonei for setup speculation
> votes Mikey for pushing Sloonei for setup speculation when Mikey was speculating himself
> ends up on Mikey

Mikey = ts account

Also, it all feels contrived and fake and very surface level. Like he had no real suspicion in the first place. He just bounced out between reads even though it made no sense from a logical standpoint.

I agree with this. His reads all felt very forced and surface level especially the Sloonei one. His reason against him was unreasonable and lacked any sort of solid support behind it to warrant a vote. It felt like he wanted to sus somebody so he can contribute early on and Sloonei happened to be it

[Dragomir]

I also do not feel like this is the same radish we saw in the goc.

Wdym?

[MacDougall]

I'd like everyone's feeling on Long Con, Leetic and Master Radishes. Even if it's that you have no feeling.

[Sloonei]

I also do not feel like this is the same radish we saw in the goc.

Wdym?

master radishes was scum in that game. he got lynched day 2. i think he looks different here. that would indicate a town read, but i'm not familiar enough with him as a player to say that with complete confidence. i'm not currently inclined to vote for him.

[TonyStarkPrime]

@leetic how do you feel about Long Con and Master Radishes?

@TonyStarkPrime same question?

And how do you two feel about one another?

LC probably town.
No thoughts on Radishes.
Leetic probably scum.

[TonyStarkPrime]

@leetic how do you feel about Long Con and Master Radishes?

@TonyStarkPrime same question?

And how do you two feel about one another?

LC probably town.
No thoughts on Radishes.
Leetic probably scum.

[Dragomir]

I could use the same logic against you. You have only played a fraction of the amount of mafia games that exist so you can't truly know that mechanical talk is widely considered a scumtell. It might have been from the games you've played but not the many others have.

So basically, trying to say that mechanical talk is a scumtell is bullshit. It's not a universal opinion. I want you to explain to me what really makes mechanical talk a bad thing.

There exists somewhere a big imaginary book of mafia. When players are good enough, they get a chance to write a chapter of the book. In some footnotes, you will find clear references to mechanical discussion being a scumtell. I do not know what to tell you beyond this. I am not the one who decides what are and aren't considered scumtells, though I do have a few scumtells of my own that I have not seen other players share.

Generally, scum (moreso bad scum than good scum) will struggle to generate content. This is the closest thing you can get to objective in mafia- sort by postcount will almost always win more games than any individual player's reads, it has been tested. As a result of this, scum (moreso bad scum than good scum) will latch onto low-hanging talking points. In mystery games especially, mechanical discussion is inevitable from any alignment, but scum (moreso bad scum than good scum) are happy to engage in this discourse, as it means they don't have to provide fake content.

Happy?

You could argue in a post-modern mafia setting that going after someone for mechanics talk is the new low hanging fruit. I don't think your suspicion of sloonei for this looks particularly genuine. It's an easy suspicion to fake early and you haven't really let it go, like you're afraid what it would look like if you backed down here

This is my concern with TS too. I don't scum-read him for his overall reasoning/argument, as poor as I found it, but equally I don't get why I've seen one or two people say he and Sloonei must be civ/civ, as his general stubbornness does feel a bit like a scum who doesn't want to be seen backtracking.

This is not a strong enough feeling for me to commit to an SR, as basing a read off a single prolonged discussion is not, in my experience, always the best tell. I'd rather see him get engaged in different discussions first.

I like this post from Radish, more specifically, that second paragraph. It makes sense.

[MacDougall]

I also do not feel like this is the same radish we saw in the goc.

Wdym?

master radishes was scum in that game. he got lynched day 2. i think he looks different here. that would indicate a town read, but i'm not familiar enough with him as a player to say that with complete confidence. i'm not currently inclined to vote for him.

Radishes is an obscenely good player. He has levels. Getting lynched early in the GOC was an outlier for him.

[MacDougall]

I could use the same logic against you. You have only played a fraction of the amount of mafia games that exist so you can't truly know that mechanical talk is widely considered a scumtell. It might have been from the games you've played but not the many others have.

So basically, trying to say that mechanical talk is a scumtell is bullshit. It's not a universal opinion. I want you to explain to me what really makes mechanical talk a bad thing.

There exists somewhere a big imaginary book of mafia. When players are good enough, they get a chance to write a chapter of the book. In some footnotes, you will find clear references to mechanical discussion being a scumtell. I do not know what to tell you beyond this. I am not the one who decides what are and aren't considered scumtells, though I do have a few scumtells of my own that I have not seen other players share.

Generally, scum (moreso bad scum than good scum) will struggle to generate content. This is the closest thing you can get to objective in mafia- sort by postcount will almost always win more games than any individual player's reads, it has been tested. As a result of this, scum (moreso bad scum than good scum) will latch onto low-hanging talking points. In mystery games especially, mechanical discussion is inevitable from any alignment, but scum (moreso bad scum than good scum) are happy to engage in this discourse, as it means they don't have to provide fake content.

Happy?

You could argue in a post-modern mafia setting that going after someone for mechanics talk is the new low hanging fruit. I don't think your suspicion of sloonei for this looks particularly genuine. It's an easy suspicion to fake early and you haven't really let it go, like you're afraid what it would look like if you backed down here

This is my concern with TS too. I don't scum-read him for his overall reasoning/argument, as poor as I found it, but equally I don't get why I've seen one or two people say he and Sloonei must be civ/civ, as his general stubbornness does feel a bit like a scum who doesn't want to be seen backtracking.

This is not a strong enough feeling for me to commit to an SR, as basing a read off a single prolonged discussion is not, in my experience, always the best tell. I'd rather see him get engaged in different discussions first.

I like this post from Radish, more specifically, that second paragraph. It makes sense.

In your view do the mafia tend to make posts that make no sense as a rule? I don't give Radishes points for sounding wise in a post in which he is just postulating nothing and arrives nowhere.

[leetic]

My case died 20 pages ago, please state what you are doing on my wagon

Contention 1: Your reads have not been impressive to me. I've already explained how you have gone backtracked with several of your reads and your other reads have been shallow.

I feel like LC is playing scummy on purpose

How so? Does that make him town? This is your only post on him by the way

It's going from the premise Epignosis is town.

"is this a social distancing thing" is playful banter, it's not like he wants Epi to move his vote, it almost feels manipulative to the point of "I guess if I make a joke about his vote being insane, he'll double down on it"

Plus, the sorting question followed by the banter question kind of nullifies the interrogative question you know. It's not how a wolf treats his partner, I think I have some insight into Sloonei's antispew and he'd want to at least entertain the interrogatory process for a bit, follow through with more questions, whereas this is like...Defeating the purpose from the start. It's not done to actually figure out his reasoning or anything.

I don't know that's all you get, my mind is a beautiful messy place.

So if Epi is town, this read holds, but if he isn't, it doesn't? Your surrounding posts don't really clarify this

Word salad. Leetic's post about Sloonei's activity at SoD felt out of place, so did his "setup speculation" post. In Sloonei's position as town, it's perfectly reasonable to ask about the absence of 2 players when it could be an issue that may cause a re-rand. If Leetic were scum though, it wouldn't be an issue because he'd know that his scum buds aren't missing so who the fuck cares about two townies missing.

As I already explained, this post only works under the assumption that neither of the missing players are wolves

Contention 2: Your reaction to me

Does anyone else think it's weird that we have ~40 hours left and I'm already at L-3?

No. What's weird about it?

I think it's likely that at least one of my voters is scum. Probably precisely one since it would be risky for mafia to gang up on someone this early

You have absolutely no scum reads on anyone on your wagon, what even triggered this comment.

Does anyone else think it's weird that we have ~40 hours left and I'm already at L-3?

No. What's weird about it?

I think it's likely that at least one of my voters is scum. Probably precisely one since it would be risky for mafia to gang up on someone this early

Why? Which one?

It's still pretty early in the game when many users are throwing around suspicions. But a wagon of four people, rather close to the number needed to hammer, is not a thrown suspicion. It's a clear choice. Especially jarring when no other wagon has reached three yet.

One of the users on my wagon is ted, who I have found suspicious for other reasons. But I think the person whose vote on me looks the worst is Mac. First of all is how subtly he voted - he didn't even post that he voted for me until much later, despite being the third vote on me - the point where it becomes a viable wagon. Secondly, when he finally posted a reason for the vote, he just phrased it as following ted and not mentioning anything about me. Overall, a very sneaky vote that was barely noticed, and the results of which are clear.

So you think there are 2 scum and not one.

And you just described a town vote 9/10 times, I don't believe that you actually think Mac is wolf based on how bad his vote looks on you. That's mostly town.

You lumped me with mac because the higher the number of suspicions, the better it looks for you. What do you have on me, I barely remember you saying anything about me?

These posts were just very presumptive about me. Like the previously mentioned post on me, this post seems designed to paint me in the worst light. I start to get suspicious

I actually don’t, why is that hard to believe?

I mean, it happened only yesterday, plus you actually responded to me. Seems convenient that you would forget it when it helps your agenda to do so.

Yes, because letting myself get picked on by you on purpose helps my agenda by a huge ton.

When if I were scum, I could just go back over and read it.

I’m literally laying out baits and you’re taking each one of them.

Make me look townier please :P

This is not how someone who is town responds. Even if he was correct about the fact that he was "laying out baits", consider that he had a vote on me this whole time and was posting weird suspicion about me. If it was "bait", then his entire suspicion of me would be based on false premises, yet he never backed down. His read on me just looks very fake.

All you’ve done was to move your vote for level 1 surface reads.

I would like to point out the irony of this statement as none of his reads at that point were any deeper.

And it doesn't get better from here:

@Long Con come vote leetic

Master radishes you literally can’t read me, please switch to leetic.

I've called out Drago for the same thing and it honestly looks worse here. You seemed more concerned with lynching me than reading me. I mean, by this point your case on me is what, my page one vote, me being suspicious that my wagon is growing rapidly, and me suspecting you. Maybe there's something in there that doesn't look good, but it surely isn't enough to just drop everything and get me gone no questions asked.

Let me live to Day2, that’s when I shine, more towards late game. I’ll give a huge post with everyone listed. Ted talk thing.

I need the night for myself, I can’t both defend myself against cases and solve, you can’t possibly expect me to do that

Feels like more an appeal to emotion than anything else.

Contention 3: Poisoning the well

When he went back after the breakdown, he had a constant insistence that his wagon was a "page two thing" ignoring posts by me and others. As I said, he is completely uncooperative.

Like this is fucking ludicrous, everyone but me is getting pushed, Long Con is pushed, TSP is pushed, Speedchuck is pushed, and I’m still being top wagon, TH is pushed

Fucking read the game state correctly, MY WAGON IS A PAGE 2 THING AND IT HAS NO NEW EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT IT

Your posts on LC have been shallow and you haven't really discussed TSP, TH, or speed. It looks like you are depending on other people to make scumreads.

And yet for 50 something hours I’ve managed to be the counterwagon to people like Leetic and Long Con and their wagons crumble and mine stays up although I’m the towniest motherfucker in this entire playerlist

And they’ve barely done anything

I think it is difficult to argue that I've barely done anything, and again, this reads like scum desperate to throw the wagon on anybody else rather than town trying to lynch who's scummy.

In short, ted has posted very shallow reads despite criticizing me for posting shallow reads, has a case on me that just seems to assume the worst about me, has tunneled on that case to the exclusion of other users, and has been trying to throw the spotlight on anyone but himself of late. I'm happy where my vote is for now.

[Sloonei]

I'd like everyone's feeling on Long Con, Leetic and Master Radishes. Even if it's that you have no feeling.

I've just talked about two of them, so way to go me.

LC made a big fuss about reading Turnip Head earlier that looked out of character for him. But when I say it looked out of character, I don't mean it looked suspicious. Mafia LC would have no reason to make a series of posts like that, and with a gun to my head I would say that he did it because he's town and earnestly wanted to develop a read on/state a case against TH at the time.

I looked back and it turns out I'm conflating two things. First he did a big ISO type thing on leetic, and a little while later he had an extended flurry of posts about Turnip Head.

He appears to come out with a town read on leetic and a mafia read on turnip head. I challenged that TH read and he responded meekly:

Turnip Head is town.

Oh.

I didn't love it.