Coronavirus Mafia [ENDGAME]

[Tangrowth]

Spoiler: show

Day 1

Master Radishes
3 Voters: Dragon D. Luffy, speedchuck, Hyena

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME
4 Voters: Long Con, sig, 112, nutella

sig
5 Voters: NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME, juliets, M Plus 7, Jackofhearts2005, TonyStarkPrime

TonyStarkPrime
1 Voter: Master Radishes


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DAY 2

juliets
4 Voters: Hyena, speedchuck, M Plus 7, nutella

nutella
7 Voters: TonyStarkPrime, NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME, Jackofhearts2005, DrWilgy, Long Con, juliets, Dragon D. Luffy

TonyStarkPrime
1 Voters: Master Radishes (voted before he died I guess)

This looks a lot uglier than I thought it would, color-wise. But I'm on light theme, so maybe it'll look better for you guys.

I'm being as un-generous as possible here, because there are only so many conclusions I can draw from 2 days of wagons. But there are some notes I wanted to put up. These are mostly based on the wagons above, and I'm not putting too much stock in them because they don't reflect when the votes actually happened or why, but hey vote analysis.

-MR voted Tony both days, even above self-preservation. That's an action worth noting. I, for one, do NOT think that's a good look for Tony, though some might disagree. Looks like 'If I'm going to die anyway, let me do some distancing.' Notably, Tony cased MR D1 but then ended up voting for Sig. I'd like to know more about that, but haven't started ISOs yet.

-Of all the MR voters D1, DDL (ONLY LOOKING AT THE VOTE WAGON) is more likely scum out of the three. He was the one who first put the vote up. I made it a wagon, and Hyena campaigned/blackmailed for nanook to join. That said, the argument between DDL and MR was pretty strong, and I townread him by virtue of distancing alone.

-No conclusions can be drawn from nanooks D1 votes. It was all self-preservation. That's not his fault, though again I wish the people who voted him were alive to talk about why, since everyone remaining super-townreads him.

-Juliets wagon on D2 looks pretty freaking pure to me. I know Nanook and Tony would disagree, but it's a point worth making. Granted, Nanook's wagon has been proven pure, and there's only so far that can go, but it's still worth looking at.

I'm not big into drawing conclusions based on voting records, even if I think they're important, so maybe you can help me more with some of these conclusions. Why would you think DDL is the most scum because he was the first one to vote (ignoring other factors)?

[Tangrowth]

Just got to your Tony ISO now, speed, I'll take a detailed look.

[speedchuck]

Spoiler: show

Day 1

Master Radishes
3 Voters: Dragon D. Luffy, speedchuck, Hyena

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME
4 Voters: Long Con, sig, 112, nutella

sig
5 Voters: NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME, juliets, M Plus 7, Jackofhearts2005, TonyStarkPrime

TonyStarkPrime
1 Voter: Master Radishes


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DAY 2

juliets
4 Voters: Hyena, speedchuck, M Plus 7, nutella

nutella
7 Voters: TonyStarkPrime, NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME, Jackofhearts2005, DrWilgy, Long Con, juliets, Dragon D. Luffy

TonyStarkPrime
1 Voters: Master Radishes (voted before he died I guess)

This looks a lot uglier than I thought it would, color-wise. But I'm on light theme, so maybe it'll look better for you guys.

I'm being as un-generous as possible here, because there are only so many conclusions I can draw from 2 days of wagons. But there are some notes I wanted to put up. These are mostly based on the wagons above, and I'm not putting too much stock in them because they don't reflect when the votes actually happened or why, but hey vote analysis.

-MR voted Tony both days, even above self-preservation. That's an action worth noting. I, for one, do NOT think that's a good look for Tony, though some might disagree. Looks like 'If I'm going to die anyway, let me do some distancing.' Notably, Tony cased MR D1 but then ended up voting for Sig. I'd like to know more about that, but haven't started ISOs yet.

-Of all the MR voters D1, DDL (ONLY LOOKING AT THE VOTE WAGON) is more likely scum out of the three. He was the one who first put the vote up. I made it a wagon, and Hyena campaigned/blackmailed for nanook to join. That said, the argument between DDL and MR was pretty strong, and I townread him by virtue of distancing alone.

-No conclusions can be drawn from nanooks D1 votes. It was all self-preservation. That's not his fault, though again I wish the people who voted him were alive to talk about why, since everyone remaining super-townreads him.

-Juliets wagon on D2 looks pretty freaking pure to me. I know Nanook and Tony would disagree, but it's a point worth making. Granted, Nanook's wagon has been proven pure, and there's only so far that can go, but it's still worth looking at.

I'm not big into drawing conclusions based on voting records, even if I think they're important, so maybe you can help me more with some of these conclusions. Why would you think DDL is the most scum because he was the first one to vote (ignoring other factors)?

With the wagons as close as they were (which is also a part of the vote record above), I doubt scum would have tried to turn MR into a bigger wagon near EOD. So the first vote is more suspect, as it may have been cast at a time when MR was safe, intended as distancing and never meant to balloon into something bigger.

I don't believe that is the case, though. DDL's gripe with MR was valid, too good a case for D1 distancing.

[Tangrowth]

TONY STARK BUILT THIS ISO IN A CAVE!

Spoiler: show

My character is so fun to roleplay as that I don’t know how. LC can die but if the point of the game is complete our personal vendettas against LC maybe we’re going down the wrong path

Hmm, let’s spread the love
Vote
DDL

The more I think about it the more I don't like these posts. The attitudes are wrong.

[VOTE: TonyStarkPrime] aubergine

Your attitudes are wrong

The exchange with MR that got Tony some town cred. I don't think it's bad, bot not worthy of cred either. This MR vote lacks substance, has no case, and should NEVER have remained till the end of the day. Textbook distancing, because nobody is going to follow up on it.

I think it's more tonal impurity that I see in Tony so far than anything concerning his attitudes toward the game.

Although upon a second read I do agree that 'spreading the love' is an odd attitude. It seems like an easy way to get a vote down and spread the votes into something anti-town more than spreading it into something pro-town if you catch my drift.

I don’t catch your drift. Why is it anti-town to have my vote on someone who I think is suspicious? what of that idea is anti-town

He never said he thought DDL was suspicious. I asked, even, and... well we'll get to that later.

What if Tony and MR are both scum?

Funny, I was thinking MR and you

Distancing.

it’s 112 and tony it was right in front of us this whole time

lol I meant between you and MR

'lol' tell get em

Deflection and distancing when 112 guessed on a relationship between Tony and MR.

Nanook, Tony, nutella, based on your own role card, what alignment do you think Alex Jones would have?

town

Here's the town cred everyone is talking about.
And.
Yeah, this is a ballsy scum play if it is one. I mean, scum might have a towny-looking role as reference, but still I'd grant some good points to this one. Maybe. For reasons that others have discussed.

Now it's time for you people to explain why everyone and their dog is townreading Radishes because I don't see it.

Alternatively, let's lynch him.

In general I'm town reading DDL for going against quo on the page, but the phrasing seems ___stilted___ and repetitive -- forced in a sense (the same "I don't see it" idea). I'm not one of those micro-post analysts but it throws me off.

Shading DDL's vote while distancing himself from directly talking about radishes... or scumreading DDL. Subtle discouragement.

Tony saying he thought Alex Jones would be town read as a not-scum thing to say imo, especially since it came after me and nutella said the opposite

I agree.

I agree as well.

I can't speak to this argument cause obvious bias but the uniform agreement bugs me

I don't know whether I like this or not. It's almost try-too-hard, like Tony is showing how he can suspect people for propping him up too well. It also gives more publicity to his best reason for being townread.
Or it's genuine, and a good look. You be the judge.

MR sitting on Tony the whole round looks bad on him, like he can't pick anyone else who warrants a vote on them.

is this a serious take

(This post might not be in the right place. I messed up my copy-pasta. It's close, though.)
Needless to say I do NOT like this response. Yes it's serious. Bloody good take, too.

I'll vote for Sig over Nanook. Weird to vote for Sig on the case "he hasn't said anything crazy yet" and I know that's the kind of reputation that's really annoying to shake, but there's nothing else to be done.

Completely ignoring MR, which seems to be a theme in the last few posts that sorta concerned MR or voting.

@TonyStarkPrime talk to me about Speedchuck. You have a vote on them right now.

He's felt disengenuous to me

This is probably my least favorite Tony post just reading the ISO real fast. Can you expand on this, Tony?

I don't remember what the circumstances were. I can go back and check if you want.

Here is the reasons:

I don’t catch your drift. Why is it anti-town to have my vote on someone who I think is suspicious? what of that idea is anti-town

why is ddl suspicious to you he ain't done nothin

a post like this when two posts later he says that Juliets is scum for asking about a day 1 vote for instance

Asking why he found DDL suspicious (a question he never answered) is disingenous? Because I had a scumread on someone else that I explained (even if it wasn't strong)? What!?

almost switched to MR for the fun of it but by golly is that a terrible plan

This is almost too on-the-nose for me to believe it came from scum. It's hilarious if Tony is scum, and gives me an even bigger estimation of the man's cajones.

-
There is no reaction to the flip.
-

I think your argument can be boiled down to “Option 2 seems useless but at least pro-town” which is probably wrong on at least one side

I mean, suppose Donald Trump is mafia. Hard to say forcing someone to do a Donald Trump impression isn't protown.

It's just the implication that if the mafia was like Trump, VInce McMahon, Kelly Loeffler, etc, that option would be too good so things aren't that easy.

Idk. There should be some sort of theme to the scum team, I'd imagine.

that's not the scum team

I don't know if this was supposed to mean that Tony was one of these roles and is town, but... well yeah, I don't know. I should probably tag each WTF moment I have in this ISO for Tony to answer.

I think your argument can be boiled down to “Option 2 seems useless but at least pro-town” which is probably wrong on at least one side

I mean, suppose Donald Trump is mafia. Hard to say forcing someone to do a Donald Trump impression isn't protown.

It's just the implication that if the mafia was like Trump, VInce McMahon, Kelly Loeffler, etc, that option would be too good so things aren't that easy.

Idk. There should be some sort of theme to the scum team, I'd imagine.

I don't think we should assume affiliations are tied to roleplaying in any way. That's a bad way to run an open set-up game.

This is probably wrong too

Incorrect. Which is maybe a good look? Either that or Tony's being wrong on purpose after so much right-ness about the setup.

I’m town. Process of elimination gives you my character and my power follows swiftly. I don’t think I’ll be around much in the following day phase, so please don’t try to lynch me.

POE does what now? I have no idea how we're supposed to guess TSP's character and/or power here. This post needs explained.

I always suspect Juliets. I’m right sometimes.
I don’t think it’s MP come at me Hyena.

Since Juliets is another main suspect I thought I'd toss this up here. A couple posts from now he suggests lynching her. Possibly an indicator of 'not W/W'.

I don't like the Sloonei secret lynch it seems wrong. I agree that we need to resolve the slot and having inactives towards game-end can be problematic, but it's still relatively early. There's no reason to assume long term that the slot will remain empty.

My scum reads converging on it as an option suggests that we have the possibility of double scum lynch in our options range here.

But possibly W/W with sloonei. Assuming the worst, I know.

To Jack's earlier point, I noted very early that I think the best option is to go for the unpaired wolves, here Nutella and Juliets.

Which requires me to say something to MPs point about the possibility of neither of them being scum: well that would suck, wouldn't it? It's not that I distinctly haven't considered that possibility, but the spaces without one of them being scum are rather limited and we'd immediately be forced to consider more unlikely combinations. If we lynch both we get over the "this'll be an easy game" mentality that can sink so many towns sooner rather than later.

Suggesting the Juliets lynch with nutella, as I said earlier.

I think we have to reconsider Jack.

We'd have to believe that the baddies would give up a role steal (role check) for a dubious clearance plan. They couldn't predict MR's death.

ops forgot mechanics
curses

MiNdSeT tElL

Calling it now Jules and LC.
I think this is also one of my previous calls so ya know some sort of stability here.

Would Tony kill off a potential mislynch (LC) on N2? A good look, one of about 4 in this ISO.
Would Tony shade Jules? 'Not W/W with Jules' look

Hey Tony, what are your reads right now?

I’m willing to townclear Jack. I think I’ll have an opportunity to examine Wilgy today — I don’t think he should be cleared long term for his derp, but it’s worth something.
Nanook and Hyena are the typical townreads. I’m less sure on both of them. I thought Hyena was scum early, but they’ve contributed a fair amount. Nanook probably sorts himself pretty quickly— there are obvious places to start for any sort of analysis. Your slot is vague and I haven’t played with you before (unless you count your first day), so I’m basically now trying to get ahold of your day 1 meta. That leaves Speed and Juliets. I cannot read Juliets. Nutella was pretty certain she was scum, but that softened towards the end and there’s always a certain town energy here to not lynch the rival train from the day before. Speed is left— I don’t think he’s playing like he had previous times I’ve seen him as scum, but he seems to me both the most likely to be scum and the most likely to provide information in his defense.
This is my participation for today, but Ive constructed a light schedule for myself tomorrow so I should be around more.

This starts with only Jack towncleared and then ends with a POE of just me and I'm not sure I understand that.

-----------------------------------------------------------

There are other posts in the ISO but few of them stood out to me as negative or definitely positive. They were either filler or prodding questions or the like, which can be town or scum.
Tony is, in my estimation, a good candidate for lynch. There aren't any 'GOTCHA's in here on either side. A couple solid town pings, about 2-3 times as many solid negative pings. I'd love to hear opinions, and I'd love tony to clear up a few things.

I actually agree with your first point, especially since "Your attitudes are wrong" is a pretty easy way to say something seemingly shade-y to a scummate without actually suspecting them.

What did you mean by "This is almost too on-the-nose for me to believe it came from scum."? Anecdotally I feel like I've seen scum play with WIFOM like that even if it turns out to be true, so are you saying that Tony specifically doesn't seem like the type to do that?

[Tangrowth]

So anyone wants to lynch the "lololololol lets tie the day 1 poll" crew?

Starting with MP and nutella.

Especially MP, who hopped his vote about 5 times before settling on Sig.

What was the underlying logic for this?

MR was being lynched and you started hopping your vote everywhere. Then you and nutella started going about tieing the viote poll which is one of the most anti-town things that happen in this site. Seemed likely that one of you was trying to save MR.

That's fair, and I suppose it doesn't matter anymore, but I'm not sure how often this actually happens especially given how often I've seen people make that accusation.

[Tangrowth]

The two things bothering nutella the most:

The fact we killed a mafioso.

And the fact we have a confirmed civ.

This reads... somewhat manipulative to me. Can you talk about this, DDL? I didn't get this interpretation, but then again I also realize I have different eyes right now.

Yes.

The motivation tell works and I've been lynched as mafia/lynched mafiosos based off it.

When someone is bad they are more likely to say things that show contempt for the civilian faction or lack of belief in their ability to win.

That seemed like that to me.

Hmmm... maybe you're right, but I think it probably depends on the player.

[Tangrowth]

Okay actually, after looking at Juliets ISO once more, I'm really not feeling strong about the case on her. I'm not really finding anything to quote. Nutella's case on Juliets said the MR/Juliets interactions weren't 'inspiring', and I agree with that. But that could be the case for several others. [VOTE: Tony] aubergine for now. I need help sorting Juliets, if anyone has something else to add.

@Epignosis How do we even cast group votes?

I'll take a look in a bit and see what I can uncover.

[Tangrowth]

The speed/Tony thunderdome has been interesting in that it gave good arguments both/again both sides.

I do think Tony looks shadier now after speed quoted his posts shading me for going after MR. While speed looks okay due to his second vote on MR. But I still have a good gut feeling about Tony and not much about speed...

And yeah Wolgy is a valid option. Low activity is not a great reason to lynch him but I feel not enough people are considering/voting for it which means scum could be avoiding him.

This is an interesting point, who specifically do you think best fits this description?

[speedchuck]

almost switched to MR for the fun of it but by golly is that a terrible plan

"This is almost too on-the-nose for me to believe it came from scum. It's hilarious if Tony is scum, and gives me an even bigger estimation of the man's cajones."

What did you mean by "This is almost too on-the-nose for me to believe it came from scum."? Anecdotally I feel like I've seen scum play with WIFOM like that even if it turns out to be true, so are you saying that Tony specifically doesn't seem like the type to do that?

It is WIFOM, I guess. I have no idea whether Tony would use it or not. Also I think the context was that it would put things back into a 3-way tie. (though Nanook would probably rectify it and kill MR). That makes it a little more likely.

I don't know how much of a winebibber Tony is.

[Jackofhearts2005]

In addition to your regular vote, everyone has a secret vote for a second lynch. Knock the virus outta here. - Very swingy. Town lynches a second person with less info, but it's uncontrolled for mafia. Doubles town offensive power, reduces accuracy, requires coordination for scum not to just control it.
All players must post (at least slightly) within character. The show must go on! - completely useless and also doesn't really have a punishment lined up? Might inhibit town posting.
With one hour remaining, all players not in the top two in vote count are eliminated from lynch contention. Two enter, one will leave. - I have no idea whether this is townsided or not, but given the false dichotomy thing that is not valuable, I lean... maybe scum? Or null.
Tag Team Fighting: At the beginning of the day, all players are placed into BTSC randomly with one other person. Teams of two share a singular vote. - not sure how this works, but it might be hard for either side to use their votes at all.
Weapons Match: In the first 24 hours of the day, everyone must choose another player. That player's vote will be worth one more. - Mafia-sided, they can double their votes, town is uncoordinated.

Maybe I'm overstating things but I think all of these are either null or they are slightly scum-sided. Scum Tony could be getting town cred for claiming this role with nothing horrible in it (like insanifications for everyone) while also not helping town much.
OR
Tony is town and is struggling to come up with ideas.

My point is that I award no points for this role. But I don't detract any either. Thoughts?
Thoughts on my Tony ISO anyone?

Yeah, my first thought upon his power claim was that none of them seem all that townsided. None of them seem that scumsided either. Not sure what his aim has been for his power use, here.

[Tangrowth]

Tony makes the night polls apparently. I have no reason to think that role is town or scum.

These kinds of roles tend to be more like town imo. If you have to balance a team of three scum having one of them be zero utility is a major inbalance point, while for the town side it's a good way to keep the town team from being OP.

If there are 4 scum I'd expect the town to have much stronger roles, though, which hasn't been the case so far.

I'd hope there aren't 4 scum here because that seems unbalanced just from a numbers perspective regardless of the powers, let alone some town roles being useless or anit-town, like the fact that we know for example sig had a pretty anti-town role.

[Tangrowth]

Be back in a few.

[juliets]

[mention]speedchuck[/mention]

1. The "attitudes are wrong" case was distancing from Tony by MR.
I think this could be the case. I listed some of MR posts that I thought could be distancing from Tony when I looked at MR. The thing I wrestle with is was this truly distancing or just MR trying to get a townie killed. He was hell bent on it, thats for sure. Maybe he wouldn't want to stand out like that being scum if he's trying to get someone lynched that he knows would flip town, so +1 for distancing being the answer here.

2. Deflection and distancing when 112 guessed on a relationship between Tony and MR ('lol' tell got em).
Very possibly speed. I didn't read it that way when I ISO'd him but I think what you say is possible.

3. Tony guesses "town" for Alex Jones.
I have been seeing this as town and Tony has claimed since then. I don't know this 'Vince' guy - is he a bad guy? If not, I don't know that this "town" guess should get a lot of town crew but if so, I still give town credit for it.

4. Shading DDL's vote while distancing himself from directly talking about radishes... or scumreading DDL. Subtle discouragement.
Yeah, when I read this one I thought 'I completely missed this'. It looks like he's avoiding talking about Radish to me.

5. I don't know whether I like this or not. It's almost try-too-hard, like Tony is showing how he can suspect people for propping him up too well.
I see this as towny.

6. Needless to say I do NOT like this response. Yes it's serious. Bloody good take, too. (Tony asking 112 if her take was serious that MR sitting on Tony the whole round looks bad).
I skipped this in my ISO because I had no idea what it means. I still don't other than maybe he was saying to 112 'are you serious saying that MR is suspect for this?' in which case I'd say this is a bad look.

7. Completely ignoring MR, which seems to be a theme in the last few posts that sorta concerned MR or voting.
I didn't think his reason for voting sig was great but I didn't think about the fact he should have thought about MR as well as Nanook (whom he does mention). I guess in that light - the reason was weak and he didn't seem to evaluate MR at this juncture - I can see it as a bad look.

8. Tony's reasons for finding DDL disingenuous.
I thought these reasons were fine. (speed I think you left out one of the reasons. I seem to recall two.)

9. The 'almost switched to MR by golly what a terrible plan'.
I commented in my ISO it's hard for me to see a scum Tony saying this.

speed I'm going to stop here and take a break, my computer is running out of juice and I need to take a shower. Also I see I've been pinged. Will continue in just a bit.

[juliets]

[mention]speedchuck[/mention] before I go, my biggest 'aha' so far is those MR comments about Tony that I've been chewing on look more like distancing in your ISO. Again, I will continue in a bit.

[TonyStarkPrime]

I wanted to repost Long Con's rainbow list right before he died. I don't know if the mafia would have waited this late to send in a kill (he posted at 5:18 pm) but I think we should keep it in mind just in case.

My rainbow looks something like this, but I don't see why it couldn't be anyone below the top three.... Me as Civ, Jack as mech cleared, Wilgy as derp cleared. Who else has done some convincing towny stuff that should be moved up to the greens?

Long Con
Jackofhearts2005
Dr. Wilgy
speedchuck
Dragon D. Luffy
M Plus 7
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME
Hyena
TonyStarkPrime
juliets

What do you make of it, juliets?

At the time it struck me that it was another thing that made Tony look bad to me but I ISO'd Tony this morning and came away thinking he was not mafia.

On a slightly different subject @TonyStarkPrime did you vote me without calling it in the thread? I went and looked at your ISO but didn't see where you voted. To everyone, it's very hard to put together vote order retrospectively if you don't call your vote in some way in the thread.

Did I? I have no memory of doing so. I’m having one of those “work all day and get half-drunk at night” days except without the get-half drunk part and with more of the work part

[TonyStarkPrime]

Okay, I’m not dying today.
I also think we’re probably going about this all wrong and we need to be considering different names. For the life of me I don’t know where to start.

[TonyStarkPrime]

Vote: Hyena for now

[speedchuck]

Okay, I’m not dying today.
I also think we’re probably going about this all wrong and we need to be considering different names. For the life of me I don’t know where to start.

What do you mean? That's yet to be determined.

Vote: Hyena for now

I'm getting really tired of reminding people why Hyena is townread. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.

[speedchuck]

Those two posts make so little sense I almost want to see it as flailing, but if Tony's about to start providing content I don't want to discourage that.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

That’s a pretty bad vote Tony

[TonyStarkPrime]

Okay, I’m not dying today.
I also think we’re probably going about this all wrong and we need to be considering different names. For the life of me I don’t know where to start.

What do you mean? That's yet to be determined.

Vote: Hyena for now

I'm getting really tired of reminding people why Hyena is townread. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.

I’m channeling my inner Jack. I think I know why Hyena is townread, but if you have something succinct, please give me two sentences.

You’re in the big group, with him, right?

[TonyStarkPrime]

That’s a pretty bad vote Tony

Why? Who am I supposed to vote? I can be pretty easily goaded as town, but I don’t feel that this matches Speed’s scum games at all. Juliets is... I don’t know.

[TonyStarkPrime]

In addition to your regular vote, everyone has a secret vote for a second lynch. Knock the virus outta here. - Very swingy. Town lynches a second person with less info, but it's uncontrolled for mafia. Doubles town offensive power, reduces accuracy, requires coordination for scum not to just control it.
All players must post (at least slightly) within character. The show must go on! - completely useless and also doesn't really have a punishment lined up? Might inhibit town posting.
With one hour remaining, all players not in the top two in vote count are eliminated from lynch contention. Two enter, one will leave. - I have no idea whether this is townsided or not, but given the false dichotomy thing that is not valuable, I lean... maybe scum? Or null.
Tag Team Fighting: At the beginning of the day, all players are placed into BTSC randomly with one other person. Teams of two share a singular vote. - not sure how this works, but it might be hard for either side to use their votes at all.
Weapons Match: In the first 24 hours of the day, everyone must choose another player. That player's vote will be worth one more. - Mafia-sided, they can double their votes, town is uncoordinated.

Maybe I'm overstating things but I think all of these are either null or they are slightly scum-sided. Scum Tony could be getting town cred for claiming this role with nothing horrible in it (like insanifications for everyone) while also not helping town much.
OR
Tony is town and is struggling to come up with ideas.

My point is that I award no points for this role. But I don't detract any either. Thoughts?
Thoughts on my Tony ISO anyone?

Yeah, my first thought upon his power claim was that none of them seem all that townsided. None of them seem that scumsided either. Not sure what his aim has been for his power use, here.

Hey, I’m tryin here. Do you wanna take a shot running this multi billion dollar company? Be my guest.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

That’s a pretty bad vote Tony

Why? Who am I supposed to vote? I can be pretty easily goaded as town, but I don’t feel that this matches Speed’s scum games at all. Juliets is... I don’t know.

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 59#p603559

Is there a reason wilgy and MP are nonstarters for you?


Also weren’t you on chuck like 20 minutes ago

[speedchuck]

Seriously how are we supposed to coordinate our votes? [mention]Epignosis[/mention] [mention]MacDougall[/mention]

Do we vote together in the poll, and if we don't it doesn't count? If two members vote in the poll differently, is the actual vote randomized between them?
How do we even lynch?

[MacDougall]

FYI if your tag teams don't vote together your vote doesn't count.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

I see

*votes wilgy*

[MacDougall]

Option 1 - One person in your tag team votes and everyone else abstains entirely. Vote counts as 1.

Option 2 - All member vote together. Vote counts as 1.

Option 3 - You can't agree and one of you turns heel. Your vote doesn't count and I get cross at you.

[speedchuck]

Option 1 - One person in your tag team votes and everyone else abstains entirely. Vote counts as 1.

Option 2 - All member vote together. Vote counts as 1.

Option 3 - You can't agree and one of you turns heel. Your vote doesn't count and I get cross at you.

Does voting "The Government" count as abstaining?

[speedchuck]

Option 1 - One person in your tag team votes and everyone else abstains entirely. Vote counts as 1.

Option 2 - All member vote together. Vote counts as 1.

Option 3 - You can't agree and one of you turns heel. Your vote doesn't count and I get cross at you.

Does voting "The Government" count as abstaining?

Just like in real life lol.

[speedchuck]

I could go Wilgy or Tony today. I'd have to be convinced on Juliets. MP can be thrown back into that pool tomorrow.

[juliets]

[mention]speedchuck[/mention]

Continued response to your ISO:

10. POE does what now? I have no idea how we're supposed to guess TSP's character and/or power here. This post needs explained.
We know Tony's character now and power but I don't see how we could have deduced it at that time. I don't necessarily think this means bad Tony though.

11. Since Juliets is another main suspect I thought I'd toss this up here. A couple posts from now he suggests lynching her. Possibly an indicator of 'not W/W'. (This was a post where Tony says he always reads me as bad).
Yeah we are not W/W. I am town, not sure about Tony.

12. But possibly W/W with sloonei. Assuming the worst, I know. (This was speed's response to Tony saying he felt the secret vote on Sloonei was wrong.) Yes its possible this is w/w or it's possible that it's tmi. Or Tony is just town.

13. Suggesting the Juliets lynch with nutella, as I said earlier. (Tony suggested the lynch be me and nutella, unpaired wolves).
The outcome would have been the same, two town lynches. Hard to tell if Tony knew that or legitimately thought lynching both would net one wolf.

14. Would Tony kill off a potential mislynch (LC) on N2? A good look, one of about 4 in this ISO.
Would Tony shade Jules? 'Not W/W with Jules' look (Tony had said 'calling it now LC and Jules').
I agree this is a good look.

---------

I skipped over a couple of posts but I don't think I missed anything important. The most damning thing I see about Tony is MR's push on him. I've posted about it before and asked what people thought but I think speed may be the only one who shared his thoughts about it. I come out of reviewing speed's ISO leaning scum on Tony mostly for MRs push because I don't know why MR would want to stand out pushing a townie. I would like to know where others of you stand on this issue.

[MacDougall]

Option 1 - One person in your tag team votes and everyone else abstains entirely. Vote counts as 1.

Option 2 - All member vote together. Vote counts as 1.

Option 3 - You can't agree and one of you turns heel. Your vote doesn't count and I get cross at you.

Does voting "The Government" count as abstaining?

Yes.

[speedchuck]

Yeah the second half of that ISO will be better to look at after Juliets or Tony or sloonei flip.

[speedchuck]

I'd like it if everyone publicly stated vote crap as much as possible. If MP comes in, 'misses' the Mac post, and votes Wilgy 5 minutes before deadline, Imma be piiissed

[speedchuck]

We have to be careful

[juliets]

[mention]MacDougall[/mention] are you saying we can do either Option 1 or Option 2 or do you want every group using the same Option (I don't count Option 3)?

linki yeah speed good point

[Jackofhearts2005]

Okay, I’m not dying today.
I also think we’re probably going about this all wrong and we need to be considering different names. For the life of me I don’t know where to start.

What do you mean? That's yet to be determined.

Vote: Hyena for now

I'm getting really tired of reminding people why Hyena is townread. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.

I’m channeling my inner Jack. I think I know why Hyena is townread, but if you have something succinct, please give me two sentences.

You’re in the big group, with him, right?

Lol rude.

[Hyena]

I think I'd feel okay with going with Wilgy if it's not Tony. My read on him yesterday has faded since he hasn't done anything today. I really hate Tony's recent vote on me though, especially considering that he just stated a townread earlier.

[Hyena]

Okay, I’m not dying today.
I also think we’re probably going about this all wrong and we need to be considering different names. For the life of me I don’t know where to start.

What do you mean? That's yet to be determined.

Vote: Hyena for now

I'm getting really tired of reminding people why Hyena is townread. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.

I’m channeling my inner Jack. I think I know why Hyena is townread, but if you have something succinct, please give me two sentences.

You’re in the big group, with him, right?

Why did YOU townread Hyena?

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Tbf “I think I know why hyena is townread” isn’t the same as “I townread hyena.”

[Hyena]

Tbf “I think I know why hyena is townread” isn’t the same as “I townread hyena.”

I quoted him townreading me when I made a case on him earlier. I'll pull it up again.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

EOD is in like 2.5 hours, is everyone asleep?

[Hyena]

Hey Tony, what are your reads right now?

I’m willing to townclear Jack. I think I’ll have an opportunity to examine Wilgy today — I don’t think he should be cleared long term for his derp, but it’s worth something.
Nanook and Hyena are the typical townreads. I’m less sure on both of them. I thought Hyena was scum early, but they’ve contributed a fair amount. Nanook probably sorts himself pretty quickly— there are obvious places to start for any sort of analysis. Your slot is vague and I haven’t played with you before (unless you count your first day), so I’m basically now trying to get ahold of your day 1 meta. That leaves Speed and Juliets. I cannot read Juliets. Nutella was pretty certain she was scum, but that softened towards the end and there’s always a certain town energy here to not lynch the rival train from the day before. Speed is left— I don’t think he’s playing like he had previous times I’ve seen him as scum, but he seems to me both the most likely to be scum and the most likely to provide information in his defense.
This is my participation for today, but Ive constructed a light schedule for myself tomorrow so I should be around more.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Tbf “I think I know why hyena is townread” isn’t the same as “I townread hyena.”

I quoted him townreading me when I made a case on him earlier. I'll pull it up again.

It’s ok, I believe you

[Jackofhearts2005]

In addition to your regular vote, everyone has a secret vote for a second lynch. Knock the virus outta here. - Very swingy. Town lynches a second person with less info, but it's uncontrolled for mafia. Doubles town offensive power, reduces accuracy, requires coordination for scum not to just control it.
All players must post (at least slightly) within character. The show must go on! - completely useless and also doesn't really have a punishment lined up? Might inhibit town posting.
With one hour remaining, all players not in the top two in vote count are eliminated from lynch contention. Two enter, one will leave. - I have no idea whether this is townsided or not, but given the false dichotomy thing that is not valuable, I lean... maybe scum? Or null.
Tag Team Fighting: At the beginning of the day, all players are placed into BTSC randomly with one other person. Teams of two share a singular vote. - not sure how this works, but it might be hard for either side to use their votes at all.
Weapons Match: In the first 24 hours of the day, everyone must choose another player. That player's vote will be worth one more. - Mafia-sided, they can double their votes, town is uncoordinated.

Maybe I'm overstating things but I think all of these are either null or they are slightly scum-sided. Scum Tony could be getting town cred for claiming this role with nothing horrible in it (like insanifications for everyone) while also not helping town much.
OR
Tony is town and is struggling to come up with ideas.

My point is that I award no points for this role. But I don't detract any either. Thoughts?
Thoughts on my Tony ISO anyone?

Yeah, my first thought upon his power claim was that none of them seem all that townsided. None of them seem that scumsided either. Not sure what his aim has been for his power use, here.

Hey, I’m tryin here. Do you wanna take a shot running this multi billion dollar company? Be my guest.

Start at 6:00

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I don’t see that as a particularly strong TR or as a read a townie couldn’t change their mind on without much notice though?

[Tangrowth]

My bad, I had something come up, I'm here until deadline now.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

I may or may not be here till deadline but only I as I'm allowed not to read 80% of the posts.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Maybe I’m biased into thinking tony is town because I feel like I have a decent understanding of him game/a fairly few of the accusations against him remind me of stuff that gets levied at me sometimes, but like, I just don’t really see “he changed his mind and didn’t document it in excruciating detail in thread” as being particularly AI