Coronavirus Mafia [ENDGAME]

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Juliets lacks any votes, mechanics, allegiances or anti-alignments that separate her as town. All she has is a. her claim (do scum have fakeclaims, idk) and b. the fact that she's felt pretty towny all game. She's been in that second-to-lynch position, but keeps scraping by.

Everyone else in the game has more than she does separating them from the scumteam.

Thanks for saving me the words.

[VOTE: juliets] aubergine

Yeah and I know you are not voting here but I feel juliets' "not telling Jack to move away from MP" looks less good than Nanook tagging me to make me change to MP and then later convincing me to do it when I showed up 3 minutes before the deadline.

Let me be devil’s advocate.

If Juliets is a wolf with MP, her giving up her vote and convincing me to vote away from Tony means there is a 2/3rds chance I vote a wolf instead. It doesn’t take her out of anyone’s POE except maybe mine.

If Nanook is a wolf with MP, the important thing is that he’s not in the POE and he remains not in the POE. A hard bus helps a lot with that.

You know what is better than not being in the POE?

A game with 5 townies and 2 scum left.

That's when it starts to look like a game that town can't win.

[juliets]

The other argument with Jules is that a) MP didnt look likely to be TKed when she left thread, and b) if she left thread with her vote parked somewhere to force Jack’s hand that’s sort of outing, yeah?

I'm not sure what you mean by the second item "if I left the thread with my vote parked somewhere to force Jack's hand". Jack and I shared a vote. I left the thread with the understanding there would probably be EOD chaos. I left the vote in his hands with no stipulations to not vote someone. How does that force his hand and out me?

No Jules, I’m saying if you’re mafia and you parked your vote somewhere then left thread that would out you.

I’m saying you kind of had to leave it in Jack’s hands, regardless of your alignment.

But that's not true. I could have said "I don't approve of a vote for MP, DDL (or anyone I thought Jack was reading as town) or me." That would have made MP one person in a list which is less suspect. Honestly though, if I was mafia I would have forced myself to stay to the end. I wouldn't have left my vote in someone else's hands.

I mean, that’s the kind of thing that I’ll believe when we’re not in the middle of a game

I know it's WIFOMy but really, can you see anyone who is mafia leaving the game and leaving their vote in the hands of someone else at EOD? It just doesn't make sense. You don't have to answer, your position is clear I guess.

linki - are you calling my logic flawed? I'm willing to listen and acknowledge if it is but you'll need to explain it to me.

When the alternative is semi-outing yourself, then yes I do think it makes sense lol

So thats the logic you are calling flawed? Not my logic in coming to my POE?

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I’m of the opinion that a scum team of radishes/poison/X on D1, X is probably more pressured to vote radishes than not, especially considering that they’d presumably be counting on Sloonei subbing in and being an active partner. Cause remember that nobody knew D1 that sloonei subbing in would also be a non entity.

It’s a great way to distance from radishes, and I don’t think there’d be an expectation that X would be playing by themselves.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Juliets lacks any votes, mechanics, allegiances or anti-alignments that separate her as town. All she has is a. her claim (do scum have fakeclaims, idk) and b. the fact that she's felt pretty towny all game. She's been in that second-to-lynch position, but keeps scraping by.

Everyone else in the game has more than she does separating them from the scumteam.

Thanks for saving me the words.

[VOTE: juliets] aubergine

Yeah and I know you are not voting here but I feel juliets' "not telling Jack to move away from MP" looks less good than Nanook tagging me to make me change to MP and then later convincing me to do it when I showed up 3 minutes before the deadline.

Let me be devil’s advocate.

If Juliets is a wolf with MP, her giving up her vote and convincing me to vote away from Tony means there is a 2/3rds chance I vote a wolf instead. It doesn’t take her out of anyone’s POE except maybe mine.

If Nanook is a wolf with MP, the important thing is that he’s not in the POE and he remains not in the POE. A hard bus helps a lot with that.

You know what is better than not being in the POE?

A game with 5 townies and 2 scum left.

That's when it starts to look like a game that town can't win.

Agree with this.

[speedchuck]

I’m of the opinion that a scum team of radishes/poison/X on D1, X is probably more pressured to vote radishes than not, especially considering that they’d presumably be counting on Sloonei subbing in and being an active partner. Cause remember that nobody knew D1 that sloonei subbing in would also be a non entity.

It’s a great way to distance from radishes, and I don’t think there’d be an expectation that X would be playing by themselves.

'Pressured'?

There was no pressure on anyone to vote radishes but you, and that was external pressure. Scum don't HAVE to bus each other D1. It's not... expected? I don't know what you mean talking about pressure here.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Mafia generally feel pressure to put distance between themselves and their partner/s, yeah? That’s the pressure I’m referring to. Imo this is amplified when one partner is absent entirely (but likely to be replaced).

Idk, it seems like a good play to me, I probably would’ve done it if I were mafia

[juliets]

[mention]NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME[/mention], you say if you were mafia you would have probably distanced from MR on Day 1. You did in fact vote for MR earlier in the evening and then at some point changed your vote, prior to Hyena getting you to vote him. Why shouldn't we consider that as you trying to distance from him?

If you were mafia, it seems like a good way to distance from the other mafia would be to vote for him (MP) yesterday and convince your partner to join you. Why should we believe that didn't happen? (I wasn't there to see how the whole vote went down.)

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME, you say if you were mafia you would have probably distanced from MR on Day 1. You did in fact vote for MR earlier in the evening and then at some point changed your vote, prior to Hyena getting you to vote him. Why shouldn't we consider that as you trying to distance from him?

If you were mafia, it seems like a good way to distance from the other mafia would be to vote for him (MP) yesterday and convince your partner to join you. Why should we believe that didn't happen? (I wasn't there to see how the whole vote went down.)

1. You can read it that way if you want. There isn’t really an argument besides “I’m town,” so. I don’t *think* my vote was on radishes before hyena bargained me there, could be remember wrong though? IIRC I had a jokey LC vote then was on Sig.

2. That isn’t distancing, it’s hard bussing my partner to make the game demonstrably harder to win. I already wasn’t particularly in danger of dying, I don’t think I would really need to kill MP to win if I were scum.

[TonyStarkPrime]

I think I’m comfortable voting for Speed today the most. I don’t think I’m comfortable voting for Juliets as of now. I won’t vote for Jack or DDL. I haven’t managed to achieve any position all game on Hyena but GTH his gambit idea today is town. Nanook is such a strange case here, but his actions yesterday don’t jive with him being scum. There’s something worth saying about trusting the combined intuition of the town, but Speed seems like a good target.

[juliets]

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME, you say if you were mafia you would have probably distanced from MR on Day 1. You did in fact vote for MR earlier in the evening and then at some point changed your vote, prior to Hyena getting you to vote him. Why shouldn't we consider that as you trying to distance from him?

If you were mafia, it seems like a good way to distance from the other mafia would be to vote for him (MP) yesterday and convince your partner to join you. Why should we believe that didn't happen? (I wasn't there to see how the whole vote went down.)

1. You can read it that way if you want. There isn’t really an argument besides “I’m town,” so. I don’t *think* my vote was on radishes before hyena bargained me there, could be remember wrong though? IIRC I had a jokey LC vote then was on Sig.

2. That isn’t distancing, it’s hard bussing my partner to make the game demonstrably harder to win. I already wasn’t particularly in danger of dying, I don’t think I would really need to kill MP to win if I were scum.

Sorry Nanook, I misremembered that vote for MR - it was for sig, so I was wrong.

And you're right, I used the word "distance" but it would really be a hard bus if it had happened.

I'm just trying to see if I missed things about people because someone I am seeing as town is not. Several of us are in that boat.

[juliets]

People, I'm taking a break for awhile. Will return sometime this afternoon.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

I don't understand how we've made it to this situation

We are just doing too well at it.

6v1 left means we are ahead of the curve and of course everyone looks town because almost everyone is town.

Now maybe we go through 1 or 2 days with mislynches until we can get mad at each other again.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Someone remind me why we town cleared DDL. I can't remember the reason.

He voted radish almost solely at my urging with like 3 minutes in the day, I think without knowledge of the votecount, when he absolutely 100% did not need to.

I did look at the votecount, tbh. Since I had to see the poll to vote.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Someone remind me why we town cleared DDL. I can't remember the reason.

He voted radish almost solely at my urging with like 3 minutes in the day, I think without knowledge of the votecount, when he absolutely 100% did not need to.

I did look at the votecount, tbh. Since I had to see the poll to vote.

IIRC you checked in before voting? Idk, maybe I have the order backwards.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

But that's not true. I could have said "I don't approve of a vote for MP, DDL (or anyone I thought Jack was reading as town) or me." That would have made MP one person in a list which is less suspect. Honestly though, if I was mafia I would have forced myself to stay to the end. I wouldn't have left my vote in someone else's hands.

That's WIFOM, and also I have to note that the last time someone misused this argument was in this same game, where everyone and their dog said Sloonei couldn't be mafia because he wouldn't abandon his team.

If you have a real life reason to not come and play, you don't come and play, regardless of who your teammates are. Real life comes first.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Someone remind me why we town cleared DDL. I can't remember the reason.

He voted radish almost solely at my urging with like 3 minutes in the day, I think without knowledge of the votecount, when he absolutely 100% did not need to.

I did look at the votecount, tbh. Since I had to see the poll to vote.

IIRC you checked in before voting? Idk, maybe I have the order backwards.

No I mean, I opened discord, talked with you, opened the site, saw the poll, and changed my vote.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Someone remind me why we town cleared DDL. I can't remember the reason.

He voted radish almost solely at my urging with like 3 minutes in the day, I think without knowledge of the votecount, when he absolutely 100% did not need to.

I did look at the votecount, tbh. Since I had to see the poll to vote.

IIRC you checked in before voting? Idk, maybe I have the order backwards.

No I mean, I opened discord, talked with you, opened the site, saw the poll, and changed my vote.

Right, that’s what I mean. You didn’t see the poll before talking to me.

[juliets]

But that's not true. I could have said "I don't approve of a vote for MP, DDL (or anyone I thought Jack was reading as town) or me." That would have made MP one person in a list which is less suspect. Honestly though, if I was mafia I would have forced myself to stay to the end. I wouldn't have left my vote in someone else's hands.

That's WIFOM, and also I have to note that the last time someone misused this argument was in this same game, where everyone and their dog said Sloonei couldn't be mafia because he wouldn't abandon his team.

If you have a real life reason to not come and play, you don't come and play, regardless of who your teammates are. Real life comes first.

I already said it was WIFOM but I needed to say it because it's the truth. I don't know what your point about real life has to do with me. That was Sloonei.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

RL for you would be the need to go to sleep. I don’t think being tired is AI, apparently neither does DDL

[Hyena]

[VOTE: no one] aubergine

I'm second guessing myself again.

[juliets]

RL for you would be the need to go to sleep. I don’t think being tired is AI, apparently neither does DDL

Maybe you don't see it that way but if I were tired and mafia I'd damn sure do something to avoid leaving an EOD where there was still a question about where my vote would end up. It's ok though, I've just grown weary of people seeing my town game and still suspecting me so I'm somewhat irritable. I'll try to contain it.

[Hyena]

This post from Nanook is what's breaking me out of my tunnel on him and Tony:

Spoiler: show

MP's last D2 rainbow:

Fixed:

MP7 random D2 feels reads whatever man

lock town
nutella
Nanook

strong town
Jack
Tony

maybe town
Hyena
LC
speed

POE by default
DDL
juliets
DrWilgy
Sloonei

Contrasted to his post-reincarnation D3 rainbow (sidenote: fuck, is it really just D4? This game has been action packed, man):

Gut-based MP7 2.0 D3 reads

Strong town:
Jack
Nanook

Moderate town:
Hyena

Slight town:
speed
DDL

POE:
DrWilgy
juliets
Tony

Jack and me have been consolidated to the same tier. DDL takes a step up from POE to slight town. Chuck stays in the same place, so do Wilgy and Jules and Hyena. The most interesting part, at least imo, is the precipitous drop of Tony from strong town to POE.

Now, maybe someone that knows MP's scum game will jump in and say "MP always shades his partners" or some shit like that ruin my evening, but to me that looks like MP going "shit, I'm scum now and I don't have enough suspects, who can I put....Tony, he's got suspicion on him, nobody will second guess me suspecting him too."

So yeah, pretty uninterested in Tony rn. If it comes to f3 (please lord no), obviously I would reconsider, but, I mean....this looks pretty convincing to me tbh, enough so that it's pretty well reaffirmed my decision not to seriously consider Tony today.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

RL for you would be the need to go to sleep. I don’t think being tired is AI, apparently neither does DDL

Maybe you don't see it that way but if I were tired and mafia I'd damn sure do something to avoid leaving an EOD where there was still a question about where my vote would end up. It's ok though, I've just grown weary of people seeing my town game and still suspecting me so I'm somewhat irritable. I'll try to contain it.

I mean being mafia doesn’t make you magically not tired, yeah? Like it’s just not a meaningful argument imo, sorry.

Fwiw I think you’re less likely than chuck to flip red, in which case I’ll pretend that I never ever doubted you even a little bit.

[juliets]

RL for you would be the need to go to sleep. I don’t think being tired is AI, apparently neither does DDL

Maybe you don't see it that way but if I were tired and mafia I'd damn sure do something to avoid leaving an EOD where there was still a question about where my vote would end up. It's ok though, I've just grown weary of people seeing my town game and still suspecting me so I'm somewhat irritable. I'll try to contain it.

I mean being mafia doesn’t make you magically not tired, yeah? Like it’s just not a meaningful argument imo, sorry.

Fwiw I think you’re less likely than chuck to flip red, in which case I’ll pretend that I never ever doubted you even a little bit.

Lol, thanks for the laugh.

[Hyena]

Or someone who think's Jack is in control. That would suggest not our rebel Hyena and less likely Nanook.
Anyone can be scared of RT or a doctor and not go after Jack.

I love you. <3

[Hyena]

I'M GOING FULL IN!!!

[VOTE: Speedchuck] aubergine

(note: me + Jack + Nanook + Tony makes four (out of seven), so I'm fine with going through and killing any of the other three now)

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Do you honestly think DDL could be Mafia?

[Hyena]

Do you honestly think DDL could be Mafia?

I think it's Juliets, but I'll go with you on Speed today.

[juliets]

Do you honestly think DDL could be Mafia?

I think it's Juliets, but I'll go with you on Speed today.

It's really not me.

[Hyena]

Do you honestly think DDL could be Mafia?

I think it's Juliets, but I'll go with you on Speed today.

It's really not me.

Well, if Nanook is right, you won't have to worry about anything. :P

[speedchuck]

Clearing Nanook is a mistake. Clearing Tony might be one.

But if I get lynched, at least I get to see wtf is going on.

[speedchuck]

[VOTE: Juliets] aubergine

I doubt any of you will lynch nanook after I'm gone so if he happens to be scum, and I was right about the whole team from D1, GG.

In my defense, I never would have gone so hard for MR D1, when he and I were alone and I had a perfectly good suspicion on Nanook and Sig to work with.
I never would have killed 112 N1, and never ever Wilgy on N3. What even the hell with that.
I've given the most aggressive, towny game I possibly could. I've posted more than I ever have, or ever could have, as scum. I was proud of coming back and playing a good town game for once. I was really hoping to get nightkilled so I could serenade you all with vocaroo country singing as a stump.

[speedchuck]

Oh, and if I'm scum I make sure to vote MP N3, regardless of the group I'm in. He's not going to survive till endgame with the D3 POE no matter what he does, so I might as well get the towny points off of him.

[speedchuck]

... *checks watch*

This is called the silent death.

[juliets]

... *checks watch*

This is called the silent death.

Ugh yes we need more discussion. Who's here?

[juliets]

So nobody I guess except me and speed.

[speedchuck]

I dunno if I have much left to say, honestly. I've given my defense. I've given reads throughout the game. I tire of games where I give legacy reads and everyone ignores them.

[speedchuck]

Like hey guys, lynch nanook after today!

You won't tho.

[Jackofhearts2005]

I'm reading through mid to end D1. I'm just still not sure at all who the baddie is.

[juliets]

I dunno if I have much left to say, honestly. I've given my defense. I've given reads throughout the game. I tire of games where I give legacy reads and everyone ignores them.

I didn't ignore your reads, I promise. And really, I didn't expect you to talk I was more looking for discussion on the JaggedJimmyJay question "why is speed town?"

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I mean what else is there to say at this point? I think you're mafia, you're presumably not going to start trying to convince me otherwise rather than trying to push me as the alternative.

I think the work is pretty well done and the game is pretty well solved tbh

[speedchuck]

I mean what else is there to say at this point? I think you're mafia, you're presumably not going to start trying to convince me otherwise rather than trying to push me as the alternative.

I think the work is pretty well done and the game is pretty well solved tbh

First of all, I laid down a bunch of evidence of my towniness that you don't care about because everything is WIFOM in this game. And if everything is WIFOM, you can suspect who you want to.

Secondly, Eff U mate. I hope they lynch you after me.

[speedchuck]

My POE remains Nanook, Juliets, and Tony. If you guys waste a lynch on me you'll have to pick one of these not to lynch. Good luck, and I'm glad it's not me having to pick.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

You haven’t played bad but everyone else looks more townie to me, idk what to tell you

[juliets]

I am having a hard time thinking about lynching speed. I thought I saw towny in the ISO I did and I thought his claim was believable. The one thing that leaves a ? for me is I also know he is an awesome mafia so it leaves me thinking I might have been hoodwinked, but its a small 'might'.

[juliets]

[mention]Jackofhearts2005[/mention] what are your thoughts tonight?

[Hyena]

I changed my mind again.

[VOTE: Nanook] aubergine

I was going to wait and see what Speed flipped as in the event that he actually is scum. If Speed is town, I feel like Tony, who I now think is town, needs to see that Speed is town in order for him to start looking elsewhere, specifically Nanook, and I didn't feel like I was going to be able to convince him or anyone else without Speed getting lynched and having his alignment revealed.

Tony, what do I need to do in order to convince you that Speed and I are town? I wasn't lying that Nanook's post made me think you were town. However, it made me think you were town independent of Nanook's alignment.

[Hyena]

I changed my mind again.

[VOTE: Nanook] aubergine

I was going to wait and see what Speed flipped as in the event that he actually is scum. If Speed is town, I feel like Tony, who I now think is town, needs to see that Speed is town in order for him to start looking elsewhere, specifically Nanook, and I didn't feel like I was going to be able to convince him or anyone else without Speed getting lynched and having his alignment revealed.

Tony, what do I need to do in order to convince you that Speed and I are town? I wasn't lying that Nanook's post made me think you were town. However, it made me think you were town independent of Nanook's alignment.

Like, I'll stay here on the Speed wagon if that's what you're most comfortable with, but I need you to be open to lynching Nanook tomorrow.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Let’s all give our ideal 3 player POE.

[Jackofhearts2005]

You guys go first.