Magic the Gathering Mafia - Game Over - Mafia has won!

[dunya]

whats with the big font every other post

sorry, it's to highlight a portion of the quote i won't explaining. is it bothersome? i can use colors instead i guess.

[Justplayingitcool]

<=== obv town here

Remember when you scumread me for making this exact same post

[dunya]

want* not won't

[dunya]

[VOTE: falcon45ca] aubergine

don't think he found kyle's post genuinely "chaotic". feels stifling to me and calling questions in a complex setup silly is -----

[Justplayingitcool]

whats with the big font every other post

sorry, it's to highlight a portion of the quote i won't explaining. is it bothersome? i can use colors instead i guess.

Nah, it's fine

[dunya]

<=== obv town here

Remember when you scumread me for making this exact same post

were you scum?

[Justplayingitcool]

<=== obv town here

Remember when you scumread me for making this exact same post

were you scum?

Nope, I was town. Simple Arsonist game.

[dunya]

so punish the fool seems like a pretty punishing ability for our team.

the best we can probably do is to make scum play whack-a-mole. we all need mana for something...

fix suggestion : everyone should ask for the mana they need (and that's it - just ask for the mana, don't say what it's for or that it needs priority, etc etc), irregardless of how good or bad their ability is.

loop holes : the mafia will target strong people this way, so we're a bit forced to spread the cards to someone they don't need dead. (PoEish targets that can reasonably be town)

my instinct is to say that 3 mana is a bit tough to gather? so let's not try to get caught up in an ability that takes quite a bit to use anyway.

thoughts / concerns about this?

I don't think that 3 mana is tough to gather. I can produce that much mana in a night. I don't know how many lands you have, but I have three. If that's standard, then this is probably somewhere near equivalent to a wolf giving up their personal ability in order to use Punish The Fool.

Actually, this kind of reads like ted is a wolf with 3 lands who thinks that townies start with fewer.
Why would a townie ever say "3 mana is a bit tough to gather" here?

ohh good point. but didn't you tell me some lands dont produce mana?

[dunya]

<=== obv town here

Remember when you scumread me for making this exact same post

were you scum?

Nope, I was town. Simple Arsonist game.

and what do you think of marmot here? you made a comment on how he (un)intentionally copied your post from SA, is it AI at all?

[Justplayingitcool]

<=== obv town here

Remember when you scumread me for making this exact same post

were you scum?

Nope, I was town. Simple Arsonist game.

and what do you think of marmot here? you made a comment on how he (un)intentionally copied your post from SA, is it AI at all?

It's NAI - which was the defence I used in that game, and it's probably the same here. I just think it's highly amusing that he's done it here as well.

[dunya]

so punish the fool seems like a pretty punishing ability for our team.

the best we can probably do is to make scum play whack-a-mole. we all need mana for something...

fix suggestion : everyone should ask for the mana they need (and that's it - just ask for the mana, don't say what it's for or that it needs priority, etc etc), irregardless of how good or bad their ability is.

loop holes : the mafia will target strong people this way, so we're a bit forced to spread the cards to someone they don't need dead. (PoEish targets that can reasonably be town)

my instinct is to say that 3 mana is a bit tough to gather? so let's not try to get caught up in an ability that takes quite a bit to use anyway.

thoughts / concerns about this?

I don't think that 3 mana is tough to gather. I can produce that much mana in a night. I don't know how many lands you have, but I have three. If that's standard, then this is probably somewhere near equivalent to a wolf giving up their personal ability in order to use Punish The Fool.

Actually, this kind of reads like ted is a wolf with 3 lands who thinks that townies start with fewer.
Why would a townie ever say "3 mana is a bit tough to gather" here?

When I read it with the idea that it "reads like ted is a wolf", tow things jump out at me. One, his use of "instinct" feels wild and wolfy... but that's just for laughs. Two, more serious, he's casually downplaying the concern about this ability.

Also, "for our team" lol
guy reads like a middle manager trying to be one of the bois

Or "hello fellow townies".

what's wrong with hello fellow townies? i don't personally see an issue for it.

"for our team" is ehhh i guess.

when did we get so anal?

[dunya]

So @Urist what is it you're saying then so that I can understand b/c clearly I don't

If a member of the town is unable to use their ability without getting a mana donation of a specific colour, it's better for them to claim that they need that colour than to sit silently and be effectively a VT.
Concrete example: let's say I have an ability that requires two red mana and two green mana, but I only have two green lands and a red land. Which is the more beneficial choice:
a) Claim that I need one red land for my ability, alerting the mafia that I have an ability with a damage component, but potentially allowing me to make use of it.
b) Don't claim anything and take no actions.
A is always the logical choice. B doesn't make much sense, because although it avoids a situation where you're revealing information, you're not able to use your ability anyway so what are you even gaining by being secretive?

press X to doubt

please explain why you doubt? is it not making sense to you?

[dunya]

So @Urist what is it you're saying then so that I can understand b/c clearly I don't

If a member of the town is unable to use their ability without getting a mana donation of a specific colour, it's better for them to claim that they need that colour than to sit silently and be effectively a VT.
Concrete example: let's say I have an ability that requires two red mana and two green mana, but I only have two green lands and a red land. Which is the more beneficial choice:
a) Claim that I need one red land for my ability, alerting the mafia that I have an ability with a damage component, but potentially allowing me to make use of it.
b) Don't claim anything and take no actions.
A is always the logical choice. B doesn't make much sense, because although it avoids a situation where you're revealing information, you're not able to use your ability anyway so what are you even gaining by being secretive?

press X to doubt

please explain why you doubt? is it not making sense to you?

nevermind, you answered it below that post. pls ignore. *pretend delete*

[dunya]

So @Urist what is it you're saying then so that I can understand b/c clearly I don't

If a member of the town is unable to use their ability without getting a mana donation of a specific colour, it's better for them to claim that they need that colour than to sit silently and be effectively a VT.
Concrete example: let's say I have an ability that requires two red mana and two green mana, but I only have two green lands and a red land. Which is the more beneficial choice:
a) Claim that I need one red land for my ability, alerting the mafia that I have an ability with a damage component, but potentially allowing me to make use of it.
b) Don't claim anything and take no actions.
A is always the logical choice. B doesn't make much sense, because although it avoids a situation where you're revealing information, you're not able to use your ability anyway so what are you even gaining by being secretive?

press X to doubt

I thought is sounded logical. Why should we doubt?

Couple things that I super hate about that post:
The first is the red comment. Just read that and think about it for a minute, especially in the context of we don't actually know what "red" things do even if we can assume things from the existing MTG color pie.
Second is there are times when not claiming/asking for mana is going to be beneficial to you, A isn't always the logical choice yeah? That's the main point of the X to Doubt comment.
There are other things that concern me about the post that I'm sitting on for now. The last thing I really want to mention is that the post reads as if they're seeing town approval for something, not expressing ideas or thoughts they want to take a stand on.

i disagree with everything here. if i had an ability and no mana that i can use to activate my ability, which is better? not using my ability because i don't have mana, or possibly being hit by mafia and not using my ability because i asked for mana?

in the end, "not using my ability" is clear.

i think the mafia have bigger fish to fry than someone who relies on others to use their abilities too. like, the source.

oh, what's the double targeting rule. i should look that up / ask. just hit me.

[dunya]

With some pressure on Falcon to start doing townie things pretty quickly I think adding some pressure to Urist makes sense here, yes?
I know your sus pool and I'm on board with that.

This is pretty scummy. Note that he supports others reads and encourages putting pressure on other players, but doesn't do so himself.

You mean the vote I have on Urist? I'm sorry, are you feeling peckish because I'm not actively pushing you or something? nah fam. What more pressure do you want than a legit vote? You think I need to case Urist or something?

What exactly is your read on Urist, why are you voting him? What's your read on me, why aren't you pushing me?

My read on Urist is wolf, and that's why I'm voting for him. My read on you is wolfy as well, for the D0 towncore stuff that I thought was nonsensical and unnecessary, and is reinforced by Guillotine who I town read.
I'm not pushing you b/c I'm currently focusing on Urist. Wait your turn.

Joke police and acting like it's scumhunting...now where have I heard this before?

first instinct is possible w/w

[dunya]

With some pressure on Falcon to start doing townie things pretty quickly I think adding some pressure to Urist makes sense here, yes?
I know your sus pool and I'm on board with that.

This is pretty scummy. Note that he supports others reads and encourages putting pressure on other players, but doesn't do so himself.

You mean the vote I have on Urist? I'm sorry, are you feeling peckish because I'm not actively pushing you or something? nah fam. What more pressure do you want than a legit vote? You think I need to case Urist or something?

What exactly is your read on Urist, why are you voting him? What's your read on me, why aren't you pushing me?

That original HK post in this chain doesn't sit right. You don't let someone know that a vote is just a pressure vote before you at least get some reactions from it. If I hear a vote on me is just for pressure, I assume then that it's not for serious, and I feel less pressure.

tbh, even if not optimal, i've seen townies do this more times than i care to count. it's just like a figure of speech atp. "lets put pressure on nanook and vote there"

any suspicion of hollowkatt is encouraged though.

[dunya]

so punish the fool seems like a pretty punishing ability for our team.

the best we can probably do is to make scum play whack-a-mole. we all need mana for something...

fix suggestion : everyone should ask for the mana they need (and that's it - just ask for the mana, don't say what it's for or that it needs priority, etc etc), irregardless of how good or bad their ability is.

loop holes : the mafia will target strong people this way, so we're a bit forced to spread the cards to someone they don't need dead. (PoEish targets that can reasonably be town)

my instinct is to say that 3 mana is a bit tough to gather? so let's not try to get caught up in an ability that takes quite a bit to use anyway.

thoughts / concerns about this?

I don't think that 3 mana is tough to gather. I can produce that much mana in a night. I don't know how many lands you have, but I have three. If that's standard, then this is probably somewhere near equivalent to a wolf giving up their personal ability in order to use Punish The Fool.

Actually, this kind of reads like ted is a wolf with 3 lands who thinks that townies start with fewer.
Why would a townie ever say "3 mana is a bit tough to gather" here?

Or the wolves start with fewer than 3 mana each, which if Ted's scum, leads him to believe town also start with fewer than 3?

I have 3 as well, thought Ted assuming it tricky to acquire a bit unusual

Snap read you're town off of this.

lol um hello do you guys know tutuu? especially tutuu the host?

[dunya]

i'm with epi here whenever epi said it, i'm treating this like a regular mafia game for the most part.

[Justplayingitcool]

All this mana discussion is confusing the fuck outta me

[Nicol Bolas]

what kind of policy is voting guillotina @Urist?

I'm a disgruntled old man and don't really care to play with someone who's making the game harder to read for no reason.

it's not actually for no reason

If you're suggesting it's a post restriction, I'm a little doubtful.

it's because guillotinas previous play style was not healthy and he's trying to change that. Easiest way to change it is to try to filter thoughts through images. That's what I think it probably is

what do you mean? where did he say that?

discord a week or two ago

[Urist]

A isn't always the logical choice yeah? That's the main point of the X to Doubt comment..

When the choice is between remaining functionally vanilla, or asking for a red mana from someone, I have to agree with Urist.

Here is the second mafia factional artifact:



Elaborations:

• Note that both this and the Wolf Pack are night actions, you can't use them during the day (you would have no mana to do that anyway)

• The purpose of this artifact is to prevent the town from breaking the game by making public plans on how to handle everyone's mana.

• Counter (as seen in this card) means roleblock or more specifically just "block". I won't be using the word roleblock anymore, its synonymous with "counter".

• Exiling a player removes them from the game and does not reveal their alignment (as if they were janitored)

• Which reminds me that upon death, players will flip their planeswalker, all of their land cards and all of the artifacts in their possession. The thing that they will not reveal is the state of their cards (tapped or untapped) as well as their current life total. More on the mechanics later.

Not sure how viable it is for the mafia to spend 3 mana to do either 0 or 4 damage to a townie. I'm assuming they have other non-garbage abilities.
I think Punish the Fool is more meant to stop us from breaking the game by doing things like giving our mana to the person below us in the playerlist.

[Long Con]

lol guise, i have no experience with mtg irl but i’ve played a few mashes on another site that was mtg themed

and in there mana is stacked and usually hard to come across, thus, i don’t see why we’re supposed to be scared of that card, since i believe it’d put dents in mafia as well. i’ve only said “my instinct tells me” because off that previous experience but not actually knowing how it works in this game.

still, the strategy should work out fine. i don’t see how or why tutuu would add that card for the mafia unless there were a few roles that couldn’t really produce all mana for their own ability.

Actually, it's likely an extra kill if it's used on someone who asked for mana, unless we somehow control how much mana is given. If just one player gives one mana away, then that's 4 damage. But if three players feel generous, then that's 12 damage, probably death, and quite worth sacrificing an ability for I'm sure.

[Urist]

lol guise, i have no experience with mtg irl but i’ve played a few mashes on another site that was mtg themed

and in there mana is stacked and usually hard to come across, thus, i don’t see why we’re supposed to be scared of that card, since i believe it’d put dents in mafia as well. i’ve only said “my instinct tells me” because off that previous experience but not actually knowing how it works in this game.

still, the strategy should work out fine. i don’t see how or why tutuu would add that card for the mafia unless there were a few roles that couldn’t really produce all mana for their own ability.

The card is mainly to prevent breaking strategies.
Is there any way you can link one of those other mtg games? I'm not sure if I believe that you failed to understand the central mechanic of the game.

[Urist]

so punish the fool seems like a pretty punishing ability for our team.

the best we can probably do is to make scum play whack-a-mole. we all need mana for something...

fix suggestion : everyone should ask for the mana they need (and that's it - just ask for the mana, don't say what it's for or that it needs priority, etc etc), irregardless of how good or bad their ability is.

loop holes : the mafia will target strong people this way, so we're a bit forced to spread the cards to someone they don't need dead. (PoEish targets that can reasonably be town)

my instinct is to say that 3 mana is a bit tough to gather? so let's not try to get caught up in an ability that takes quite a bit to use anyway.

thoughts / concerns about this?

I don't think that 3 mana is tough to gather. I can produce that much mana in a night. I don't know how many lands you have, but I have three. If that's standard, then this is probably somewhere near equivalent to a wolf giving up their personal ability in order to use Punish The Fool.

Actually, this kind of reads like ted is a wolf with 3 lands who thinks that townies start with fewer.
Why would a townie ever say "3 mana is a bit tough to gather" here?

ohh good point. but didn't you tell me some lands dont produce mana?

Yeah, like a basic example is Evolving Wilds:

Kind of doubt those cards exist in this game though.

[Urist]

[VOTE: LC ] aubergine

Why LC?

[VOTE: unvote] aubergine for now.

[Marmot]

dunia is also town. This game is getting easy.

Who else needs solving?

[Marmot]

<=== obv town here

Remember when you scumread me for making this exact same post

Are you threatening a scumread of me, what do you think I am from this post?

[Jackofhearts2005]

<=== obv town here

On mobile and what is this?

[Marmot]

<=== obv town here

On mobile and what is this?

If your wife is sitting to your left, then she is obvtown.

[Nicol Bolas]

dunia is also town. This game is getting easy.

Who else needs solving?

I don't recall seeing marmot usually be this confident. Is this scummy for him?

[Marmot]

dunia is also town. This game is getting easy.

Who else needs solving?

I don't recall seeing marmot usually be this confident. Is this scummy for him?

I can say with confidence that yes, this is extremely scummy behavior for him. Turbo immediately.

[dunya]

dunia is also town. This game is getting easy.

Who else needs solving?

I don't recall seeing marmot usually be this confident. Is this scummy for him?

I can say with confidence that yes, this is extremely scummy behavior for him. Turbo immediately.

i refuse to let you out of this game that quickly. we signed up to play TOGETHER, for BETTER OR WORSE, till DEATH do us apart. not the yeet, ok?

[dunya]

Kind of doubt those cards exist in this game though.

why? not in a snarky why but genuinely do you have info that says that i missed?

[Urist]

dunia is also town. This game is getting easy.

Who else needs solving?

I don't recall seeing marmot usually be this confident. Is this scummy for him?

Not to be a party pooper, but I don't think mommy wants us doing this sort of thing.

[dunya]

does our land cards affect anything about us other than what mana we unlock?

like could there be a role that affects everyone using a specific land area?

[Jackofhearts2005]

<=== obv town here

On mobile and what is this?

If your wife is sitting to your left, then she is obvtown.

She kinda is.

[Urist]

Kind of doubt those cards exist in this game though.

why? not in a snarky why but genuinely do you have info that says that i missed?

No, I have no info regarding this, it's just baseless speculation.

[dunya]

dunia is also town. This game is getting easy.

Who else needs solving?

I don't recall seeing marmot usually be this confident. Is this scummy for him?

Not to be a party pooper, but I don't think mommy wants us doing this sort of thing.

is tutuu mommy here?

[Jackofhearts2005]

Hiiiii Dunya. You town too?

[Urist]

dunia is also town. This game is getting easy.

Who else needs solving?

I don't recall seeing marmot usually be this confident. Is this scummy for him?

Not to be a party pooper, but I don't think mommy wants us doing this sort of thing.

is tutuu mommy here?

Yar.

[dunya]

jacccccck, it's been a while since we were actually -in game- together, rather than me recruiting you to sub into games. ;p

i am town, but how do i know you are

[dunya]

all i remember from jack is the long post that made my eyes glaze over where he was telling us to gamebreak when actually tutuu gave mafia an ability to prevent that gamebreak. so slight town lean?

[Jackofhearts2005]

jacccccck, it's been a while since we were actually -in game- together, rather than me recruiting you to sub into games. ;p

i am town, but how do i know you are

Cause I started with a mechanical thingie that’s really townie probably and also my character is obvious town.

How do I know yooooou are?

[Jackofhearts2005]

all i remember from jack is the long post that made my eyes glaze over where he was telling us to gamebreak when actually tutuu gave mafia an ability to prevent that gamebreak. so slight town lean?

Lol when a host tells me I can’t gamebreak, that’s just a challenge.

[dunya]

urist, jack, nicol bolas, LC, kyle - town

hollowkatt, falcon, guil, drwilgy - wolfy in some respects according to my notes

dont think those people can all be wolf together, esp not first 3.

don't feel good about mimics when guil's last full game was an exaggerated mafia play.

don't remember why i put wilgy in not feel good pile, i should review.

[Guillotine]

The character claims are interesting to me. I find them NAI because we don't know what characters mafia will be, but I think it may actually be useful for us to claim the color of our abilities so that we don't waste mana giving it to others. I'd like some contribution on what extent town should share information relating to their role, but be wary that what you say can give scum info you don't intend to share on your role

colour is 100% tied to abilities, i don't recommend anyone claim colour.

Urist makes a valid point that colors are related to what your power is, though.

Ok... but say you need a blue mana. If you can't make it with your lands, then it's probably not your main thing. The ability could require blue-white-black, or it could be blue-red-green. I didn't think that revealing the one colour you can't make gives much usable info.

It's wise to err on the side of caution, but that has to balance out with actually being able to ever use your ability.

if you actually need someone to give specific mana to you, i don't think there's much harm in claiming it because otherwise you won't be able to use your ability anyway, it won't matter whether scum knows what it is lol.
i was more getting at the idea that people shouldn't be claiming colours for no reason.

Do you not understand why it's beneficial to claim your colour if you need donations to use your ability?

role hunting

this is reaching to the greatest levels.

i thought the bear was a d0 gimmick. is this bear in mtg even?

[Guillotine]

so punish the fool seems like a pretty punishing ability for our team.

the best we can probably do is to make scum play whack-a-mole. we all need mana for something...

fix suggestion : everyone should ask for the mana they need (and that's it - just ask for the mana, don't say what it's for or that it needs priority, etc etc), irregardless of how good or bad their ability is.

loop holes : the mafia will target strong people this way, so we're a bit forced to spread the cards to someone they don't need dead. (PoEish targets that can reasonably be town)

my instinct is to say that 3 mana is a bit tough to gather? so let's not try to get caught up in an ability that takes quite a bit to use anyway.

thoughts / concerns about this?

I don't think that 3 mana is tough to gather. I can produce that much mana in a night. I don't know how many lands you have, but I have three. If that's standard, then this is probably somewhere near equivalent to a wolf giving up their personal ability in order to use Punish The Fool.

eh.

pay attention to the colors. doesnt matter how much mana you can harvest, but how much relevant mana can you harvest.

if someone gives me mana i can't use, is there harm in saying it itt? does that narrow down my ability? i think mentioning 1 or two colors i dont need is ++++

Here is the second mafia factional artifact:

[dunya]

jacccccck, it's been a while since we were actually -in game- together, rather than me recruiting you to sub into games. ;p

i am town, but how do i know you are

Cause I started with a mechanical thingie that’s really townie probably and also my character is obvious town.

How do I know yooooou are?

do you guys even know who tutuu is

tutuu: let's give town super obvious town characters and mafia super obvious anti town characters! that's fun! ;p

i already gave you a town lean on the first part. only cos it was mechanically flawed in a way the mafia would know so i feel like it's less likely you would have gone to the effort and wall posted. unless everyone including mafia is out of their depth in this game which is....possible.

[Guillotine]

[VOTE: falcon45ca] aubergine

don't think he found kyle's post genuinely "chaotic". feels stifling to me and calling questions in a complex setup silly is -----

[dunya]

so punish the fool seems like a pretty punishing ability for our team.

the best we can probably do is to make scum play whack-a-mole. we all need mana for something...

fix suggestion : everyone should ask for the mana they need (and that's it - just ask for the mana, don't say what it's for or that it needs priority, etc etc), irregardless of how good or bad their ability is.

loop holes : the mafia will target strong people this way, so we're a bit forced to spread the cards to someone they don't need dead. (PoEish targets that can reasonably be town)

my instinct is to say that 3 mana is a bit tough to gather? so let's not try to get caught up in an ability that takes quite a bit to use anyway.

thoughts / concerns about this?

I don't think that 3 mana is tough to gather. I can produce that much mana in a night. I don't know how many lands you have, but I have three. If that's standard, then this is probably somewhere near equivalent to a wolf giving up their personal ability in order to use Punish The Fool.

eh.

pay attention to the colors. doesnt matter how much mana you can harvest, but how much relevant mana can you harvest.

if someone gives me mana i can't use, is there harm in saying it itt? does that narrow down my ability? i think mentioning 1 or two colors i dont need is ++++

Here is the second mafia factional artifact:

yeah but 1 - someone has to respond to my call on that day
2- if i cant use my ability anyway and no way of me harvesting that mana, i see more pros than cos
3 - how many people do you think they can target with that on 1 given night considering it costs them 3 mana? next night they can't target me because mana is reset every day.

i really don't get how people are not seeing the benefits here and scaremongering.