Magic the Gathering Mafia - Game Over - Mafia has won!

[dunya]

[VOTE: DrWilgy] aubergine

spicy

that's not spicy
fine with it, but it's an uncompelling yeet target.

let me do my full circle and see where my heart takes me, urist.

[Made]

Yeah, okay so it’s still an airy read, but falcon just reads off this game. Like love my dude, but he’s reading off in a way that No one else is from my POV. It reads very self aware in a way Im not use to seeing from falcon, it’s my best shot tho.

I’m getting more comfortable with dunking on Ted, but would prefer not to if I can avoid it.

Gonna leave to do irl stuff and come back with like 20 to spare before eod

[Kylemii]

Null on Epi

I think kyle is wolfy for having so many posts but not a lot of content. basically, I'd shoot kyle of the two

this is not our first game together

[Urist]

I dont think scum have lands. Because they could just give mana to a player of their choice who they really wanna kill for sure and target it with kill the fool.

This looks like someone who's intentionally trying to town-tell tbh.

[dunya]

Yeah, okay so it’s still an airy read, but falcon just reads off this game. Like love my dude, but he’s reading off in a way that No one else is from my POV. It reads very self aware in a way Im not use to seeing from falcon, it’s my best shot tho.

some people are saying Over Confident Ballsy Falcon is what makes him town. is that not your experience with him?

[Urist]

[VOTE: DrWilgy] aubergine

spicy

that's not spicy
fine with it, but it's an uncompelling yeet target.

let me do my full circle and see where my heart takes me, urist.

Hopefully it takes you back to marmot, would love to see you here

[hollowkatt]

Spoiler: show

anyway, go read jpic's iso

His ISO is not very meaty. He's disdainful of mech discussion, which is towny, and wants to get down to some mountainous play... but is "disengaged", like dunya said. His disengagement from the reads and the rules looks all right though. He doesn't make me suspicious for the most part. Kind of dislike the "oh, as if I'm scum asking for Cliffs" line, that's the worst thing I have to say about him.

What's your take on it?

the posts i've quoted where he interacted with people (actually think it was like one person or two at most) are just generally awkward wolfish posts

and afaict he has no villagery posts still

what do you think about the dichotomy of him asking to get cliff'd each time he got back in thread and having no pushes and your thoughts about him being townie for "wanting to get down to some mountainous play" even though it doesn't show?

Hi Ted, if Jpic is town, who is scum from your pov?

hk maybe, but my d1 accuracy is not that great when the entire thread is tunneling me

i'll probably have an updated view of the game by next day phase if i'm kept alive

Wow, that's a hedge if I've ever seen one.
"HK is a wolf probably, but like there's too much pressure b/c everyone is tunneling me" except that like two pages ago you said I was a wolf for pursuing you, so am I tunneled town or am I wolf? I can't figure out what your actual read on me is

Doesn’t this hedging only make sense if you’re wolf? Why would you knowingly hedge town (and I’ll answer your falcon question, gimmie a second to make sure I still believe the read)

What?! No, that's not how it works lol
I shouldn't have to explain this to you, but ok here goes: Wolves like to hedge because it gives them an out in both directions. If thread consensus starts to shift towards HK wolf you easily jump on or add fuel to that fire by making more posts about how you thought I was wolfy early and point things out.
If the thread consensus shifts towards HK is town you bail off saying "It was a wolf lean, but yeah, I think they're town now".
It's a two-way read that allows you to move in either direction depending on how the rest of the thread is moving.
That's why it's wolfy.

[Long Con]

Right now I wouldn't yeet Marmot, dunya, Guillo, Kylemii, JPIC off the top of my head. I have to review why the votes on ted are there. I'm voting Made right now because I didn't trust his falcon vote reasoning, and he was trying to give his mana away. Either alignment would know that we already discussed the danger of that if they were reading the thread. Made clearly wasn't reading the thread, and may have been trying to set up Pity The Fool. [VOTE: Made] aubergine

do you really think mafia would be giving their mana out to civilians to kill them when they have more efficient means to do so?

If you do think mafia would, do you think they would tell thread?

Not if they were paying attention.

I read baddie chat when i'm scum. Regardless, giving mana isn't a bad idea if you don't tell people who your giving it to, as well as don't telegraph who you're giving it to

(which is why i'm planning to keep my town reads close to chest this game)

I'm struggling to wrap my head around why I'd want to give out mana currently anyways?

I'd be concerned about giving it away to a wolf. Three mana to a wolf and suddenly no one has to give up their abilities to be able to perform the nightkill.

[hollowkatt]

Did I miss something, esooa is playing this game?

I'm here but I've not really wanted to participate in thread too much

it's just messy

Got any spicy reads?

spiciest is prolly town leaning Ted

yeah ok, that's pretty spicy

[Long Con]

@falcon45ca Epignosis asked you two or three times to discuss whether your reads were alignment-indicative, and you have ignored the question every time.

[Long Con]

Did I miss something, esooa is playing this game?

I'm here but I've not really wanted to participate in thread too much

it's just messy

Got any spicy reads?

spiciest is prolly town leaning Ted

yeah ok, that's pretty spicy

What's spicy about that?

[Long Con]

Did I miss something, esooa is playing this game?

I'm here but I've not really wanted to participate in thread too much

it's just messy

The thread is too messy?

[hollowkatt]

I dont think scum have lands. Because they could just give mana to a player of their choice who they really wanna kill for sure and target it with kill the fool.

This looks like someone who's intentionally trying to town-tell tbh.

I don't want to setup spec too much, but doesn't The Fool say mana from town this night and not just "mana this night"?
That would kinda make sense to me because yeah otherwise Fool just becomes a repeatable machine gun

[hollowkatt]

Right now I wouldn't yeet Marmot, dunya, Guillo, Kylemii, JPIC off the top of my head. I have to review why the votes on ted are there. I'm voting Made right now because I didn't trust his falcon vote reasoning, and he was trying to give his mana away. Either alignment would know that we already discussed the danger of that if they were reading the thread. Made clearly wasn't reading the thread, and may have been trying to set up Pity The Fool. [VOTE: Made] aubergine

do you really think mafia would be giving their mana out to civilians to kill them when they have more efficient means to do so?

If you do think mafia would, do you think they would tell thread?

Not if they were paying attention.

I read baddie chat when i'm scum. Regardless, giving mana isn't a bad idea if you don't tell people who your giving it to, as well as don't telegraph who you're giving it to

(which is why i'm planning to keep my town reads close to chest this game)

I'm struggling to wrap my head around why I'd want to give out mana currently anyways?

I'd be concerned about giving it away to a wolf. Three mana to a wolf and suddenly no one has to give up their abilities to be able to perform the nightkill.

exactly! another good reason to hoard your own lol

[hollowkatt]

Did I miss something, esooa is playing this game?

I'm here but I've not really wanted to participate in thread too much

it's just messy

Got any spicy reads?

spiciest is prolly town leaning Ted

yeah ok, that's pretty spicy

What's spicy about that?

I have ted locked as wolf never rescinding.

[dunya]

Fetch, shock, tap blood crypt for Thoughtseize.

Bolas revealed scum.

Jack revealed scum.

Hk town.

LC town.

Falcon town.

Guillotine for some reason mulled to 0 so no data.

Voted HK for being a prison player who enjoys pickles and for having a mostly green profile picture.

@Marmot these were the only 2 posts i could decipher from wilgy's iso being "game relevant" the rest was in another language i think.

their opening post has 5 reads and 1 null read. is that what made you feel good about wilgy?

[Justplayingitcool]

Did I miss something, esooa is playing this game?

I'm here but I've not really wanted to participate in thread too much

it's just messy

Got any spicy reads?

spiciest is prolly town leaning Ted

yeah ok, that's pretty spicy

hit me up with ur spicy reads

[tutuu]

Official VC 1.4:

DrWilgy - 2 - Nicol Bolas, dunya
dunya - 0 -
Enrique - 0 -
Epignosis - 0 -
falcon45ca - 3 - Kylemii, Made, Epignosis
Guillotine - 0 -
hollowkatt - 0 -
Jackofhearts2005 - 0 -
Justplayingitcool - 1 - tedxtr
Kylemii - 0 -
Long Con - 0 -
MacDougall - 0 -
Made - 4 - Marmot, Long Con, Justplayingitcool, Jackofhearts2005
Marmot - 1 - Urist
Nicol Bolas - 0 -
tedxtr - 4 - hollowkatt, MacDougall, Guillotine, falcon45ca
Urist - 0 -

No Chop - 0 -
Not voting - 2 - DrWilgy, Enrique

Let me know if there are any mistakes

[dunya]

oh wow i just saw that enrique exists in the game lol

[Urist]

I dont think scum have lands. Because they could just give mana to a player of their choice who they really wanna kill for sure and target it with kill the fool.

This looks like someone who's intentionally trying to town-tell tbh.

I don't want to setup spec too much, but doesn't The Fool say mana from town this night and not just "mana this night"?
That would kinda make sense to me because yeah otherwise Fool just becomes a repeatable machine gun

yes, it is only for town mana.
not that i'd have objections with it being *any* mana... 6 mana for one kill is excessive and almost certainly not worth the cost. i think it's more that it eliminates some of the risk of using it if it's *any* mana, i guess.

[Nicol Bolas]

Did I miss something, esooa is playing this game?

I'm here but I've not really wanted to participate in thread too much

it's just messy

The thread is too messy?

when I have been trying to read the thread at other times people were all getting mad at falcon and he was getting mad back

guillo was doing his thing lol

marmot was literally wolf claiming for wifom reasons which is just awful

etc

[dunya]

[VOTE: Jackofhearts2005] aubergine

[Epignosis]

falcon is pretty obviously town and he's been getting scum read by people for the worst reasons

What are some of these worst reasons?

[Marmot]

Why do you townread Urist? Also MacDougall? Mac's content puts him firmly in null territory for me. If anything, I'd drop him slightly because the one interaction we had earlier felt extremely lackluster, but I'm writing it off as he's just not into the game yet.

iirc, you townread urist too, and it was a good town read that i liked from you. why did that drop?

i feel urist is very comfortable in the thread and throws reads out with ease. he is pushing people in the right places. many times i wanted to ask someone for clarification or a stance, only to find that he's already poked his nose there. you can say we have mindmelded several times and i just feel he's playing loose and unrestrained, and his questions have value.

re mac: cos wolf mac wouldn't >usually< let me take control of any narratives d1 (this isn't a truth tell by any means, mac is the best wolf player i know without exception). i will tinfoil him at some point if he's town, and yeet him later if he's mafia, but he's sheeping me now and i don't feel like he has any agenda. basically, feels more like a lost sheep than someone with teammates (sorry).

I agree with the Mac take.

I like your explanation of Urist. The one thing I didn't care for was his vote for ted and simultaneous townread of falcon, but I may have subconsciously been linking the two.

ayyy

[VOTE: Nicol Bolas] aubergine

That wolfy pop-in!

on catchup, seeing LC reference my "disengaged" comment on jpic made me realize i dont think i got his reply to my question.

jpic, you seem a little disengaged

do you have any town reads? leans? scum reads? leans?

shit, i forgot about you 100 post limit. i will have to be careful to be able to post tomorrow as well.

wdym by disengaged?

I have a weird townread on marmot for wanting people to scumread him. Falcon is playing balls to the wall which I like. I have zero scumreads at the moment, but I have barely read the thread.

disengaged like you're not entering the thread with both feet, but just slightly dipping your big toe to test the waters and retreating.

who are your scumleans at this point. preferably at least 3.

Made, wilgy and kyle

Why these three?

In any other game, these three would fit a very particular mold of player who tends to shitpost more than others. What do you see here?

dunya I have as town for her post about understanding how people town read guillo in spider verse

feels like she came to this thought by actually trying to read guillo

ted I don't really care about the "slip" thing. I disagree with that point but there's a few fine ones

marmot feels off and I wouldn't mind lynching him

falcon is pretty obviously town and he's been getting scum read by people for the worst reasons

I'm honestly not even gonna bother trying to read guillo

urist is towny

Can you explain what is "off"?

on catchup, seeing LC reference my "disengaged" comment on jpic made me realize i dont think i got his reply to my question.

jpic, you seem a little disengaged

do you have any town reads? leans? scum reads? leans?

shit, i forgot about you 100 post limit. i will have to be careful to be able to post tomorrow as well.

wdym by disengaged?

I have a weird townread on marmot for wanting people to scumread him. Falcon is playing balls to the wall which I like. I have zero scumreads at the moment, but I have barely read the thread.

disengaged like you're not entering the thread with both feet, but just slightly dipping your big toe to test the waters and retreating.

who are your scumleans at this point. preferably at least 3.

Made, wilgy and kyle

if im wrong on made i'd yeet marmot

I think that we should yeet marmot first.

We are not yeeting Marmot today. Good luck.

Here's a rainbow before I sleep. The yellow reads are mostly null due to lack of content/interaction.

Marmot
dunya
Epignosis
Guillo
Kyle
Jack
DrWilgy
Enrique
JPIC
Long Con
MacDougall
Nicol Bolas
Urist
falcon
Made

Talk to me about them baddie reads.

Falcon looks like he flinging shit everywhere and seeing what sticks. Thing is, Urist and Made are two players he's not shaded at nearly the same level as many others. From his pov, Made's votes for him are lacking any amount of reason, and should not look good. Falcon's pretty much ignored it (and he's shading me for voting Made)

In addition to the above, I called Made out for his vote, and he said he was stirring shit up. I don't think he was at all, he was just spanking, but trying to make an excuse to look more productive. I believe he and falcon are teammates.

Urist defended falcon in a manner that I think looks contrived. The way Urist asks Epi to explain his read on falcon, and Urist's ensuing townread of falcon (and Ted vote) looks to me like a player who knows falcon's alignment and has his mind made up about how he's handling it.

Meh worldbuilding. Everything is built around the falcon wagon and interactions with falcon. If you were town, I think you would be trying to flip falcon first in order to give more context to the rest of your reads.

Yeah, this is probably true, I'm willing to back off of it.

Except for Made, that read still stands.

[hollowkatt]

Did I miss something, esooa is playing this game?

I'm here but I've not really wanted to participate in thread too much

it's just messy

Got any spicy reads?

spiciest is prolly town leaning Ted

yeah ok, that's pretty spicy

hit me up with ur spicy reads

Mac wolf

[Epignosis]

@Kylemii @Epignosis @Made Why are y'all on Falcon? Like I really really don't think he's a hit.

I've said why.

Why am I wrong?

[Nicol Bolas]

falcon is pretty obviously town and he's been getting scum read by people for the worst reasons

What are some of these worst reasons?

mostly people having minor problems with some of his reads when not paying attention to everything else he's doing that is towny

[Urist]

the pity the fool card says right there on it that it only triggers damage with town mana.

meaning the mafia probably have their own lands and mana costs etc etc etc. Mafia guillotine would be accutely aware of having his own lands, and wouldn't have need to make that post (except in situations where it's a silly prank for wifom)

I expecct mafia to have their own lands, I expect them to have their own actions in addition to the stated global wolf actions, and that's part of the reason I wolf read Ted.
He did say earlier that he thought it might be difficult to produce 3 mana.
I know I can produce 3 with ease, and have done so already. It would stand to reason that wolves, being able to better coordinate their mana pools and share with each other, maybe can't produce 3 natively. Therefore extending that to "townies maybe struggle to get to 3 mana" to ME is indicative that Ted is a wolf.

This aligns with my belief that scum cant produce mana, they rely on towns naively giving it to them or maybe syphon it after they killed their target with mana?

If Punish The Fool is an anti-claim mechanic where it can potentially kill someone who receives all 3 mana from someone, i as a host would not give scum land that they can produce mana with, give it to a townie and then target it with punish the fool which cant be blocked.

I think we are the only ones who can produce mana with our lands and they need to figure out who we give mana to so they can use best their punish the fool ability, which means we can just lie about it and make them miss shots!

I gave my three mana to kyle

It's literally mod-confirmed that everyone has three lands, even the mafia.

[Marmot]

Fetch, shock, tap blood crypt for Thoughtseize.

Bolas revealed scum.

Jack revealed scum.

Hk town.

LC town.

Falcon town.

Guillotine for some reason mulled to 0 so no data.

Voted HK for being a prison player who enjoys pickles and for having a mostly green profile picture.

@Marmot these were the only 2 posts i could decipher from wilgy's iso being "game relevant" the rest was in another language i think.

their opening post has 5 reads and 1 null read. is that what made you feel good about wilgy?

Yes, and like I said, it isn't a strong read by any means. I'm open to changing my stance. Why is he not town?

[hollowkatt]

I dont think scum have lands. Because they could just give mana to a player of their choice who they really wanna kill for sure and target it with kill the fool.

This looks like someone who's intentionally trying to town-tell tbh.

I don't want to setup spec too much, but doesn't The Fool say mana from town this night and not just "mana this night"?
That would kinda make sense to me because yeah otherwise Fool just becomes a repeatable machine gun

yes, it is only for town mana.
not that i'd have objections with it being *any* mana... 6 mana for one kill is excessive and almost certainly not worth the cost. i think it's more that it eliminates some of the risk of using it if it's *any* mana, i guess.

Right, but ok look at the Guillo quote with that knowledge. I don't think Guillotine says that if they're a wolf. I think that comes from town trying to figure out what the wolves have capabilities of doing.

[Epignosis]

Spoiler: show

His ISO is not very meaty. He's disdainful of mech discussion, which is towny, and wants to get down to some mountainous play... but is "disengaged", like dunya said. His disengagement from the reads and the rules looks all right though. He doesn't make me suspicious for the most part. Kind of dislike the "oh, as if I'm scum asking for Cliffs" line, that's the worst thing I have to say about him.

What's your take on it?

the posts i've quoted where he interacted with people (actually think it was like one person or two at most) are just generally awkward wolfish posts

and afaict he has no villagery posts still

what do you think about the dichotomy of him asking to get cliff'd each time he got back in thread and having no pushes and your thoughts about him being townie for "wanting to get down to some mountainous play" even though it doesn't show?

Hi Ted, if Jpic is town, who is scum from your pov?

hk maybe, but my d1 accuracy is not that great when the entire thread is tunneling me

i'll probably have an updated view of the game by next day phase if i'm kept alive

Wow, that's a hedge if I've ever seen one.
"HK is a wolf probably, but like there's too much pressure b/c everyone is tunneling me" except that like two pages ago you said I was a wolf for pursuing you, so am I tunneled town or am I wolf? I can't figure out what your actual read on me is

Doesn’t this hedging only make sense if you’re wolf? Why would you knowingly hedge town (and I’ll answer your falcon question, gimmie a second to make sure I still believe the read)

What?! No, that's not how it works lol
I shouldn't have to explain this to you, but ok here goes: Wolves like to hedge because it gives them an out in both directions. If thread consensus starts to shift towards HK wolf you easily jump on or add fuel to that fire by making more posts about how you thought I was wolfy early and point things out.
If the thread consensus shifts towards HK is town you bail off saying "It was a wolf lean, but yeah, I think they're town now".
It's a two-way read that allows you to move in either direction depending on how the rest of the thread is moving.
That's why it's wolfy.

How do you differentiate between a civilian who is unsure and a mafia member who is hedging?

[hollowkatt]

the pity the fool card says right there on it that it only triggers damage with town mana.

meaning the mafia probably have their own lands and mana costs etc etc etc. Mafia guillotine would be accutely aware of having his own lands, and wouldn't have need to make that post (except in situations where it's a silly prank for wifom)

I expecct mafia to have their own lands, I expect them to have their own actions in addition to the stated global wolf actions, and that's part of the reason I wolf read Ted.
He did say earlier that he thought it might be difficult to produce 3 mana.
I know I can produce 3 with ease, and have done so already. It would stand to reason that wolves, being able to better coordinate their mana pools and share with each other, maybe can't produce 3 natively. Therefore extending that to "townies maybe struggle to get to 3 mana" to ME is indicative that Ted is a wolf.

This aligns with my belief that scum cant produce mana, they rely on towns naively giving it to them or maybe syphon it after they killed their target with mana?

If Punish The Fool is an anti-claim mechanic where it can potentially kill someone who receives all 3 mana from someone, i as a host would not give scum land that they can produce mana with, give it to a townie and then target it with punish the fool which cant be blocked.

I think we are the only ones who can produce mana with our lands and they need to figure out who we give mana to so they can use best their punish the fool ability, which means we can just lie about it and make them miss shots!

I gave my three mana to kyle

It's literally mod-confirmed that everyone has three lands, even the mafia.

Yes, it's mod-confirmed that each player has three lands, even the mafia. What is NOT mod-confirmed is that all players have 3 mana producing lands, and MTG has many many many non-mana producing lands.

[Marmot]

Did I miss something, esooa is playing this game?

I'm here but I've not really wanted to participate in thread too much

it's just messy

The thread is too messy?

when I have been trying to read the thread at other times people were all getting mad at falcon and he was getting mad back

guillo was doing his thing lol

marmot was literally wolf claiming for wifom reasons which is just awful

etc

I have 100 posts, and you're scumreading me for deliberate wifom?

[Justplayingitcool]

on catchup, seeing LC reference my "disengaged" comment on jpic made me realize i dont think i got his reply to my question.

jpic, you seem a little disengaged

do you have any town reads? leans? scum reads? leans?

shit, i forgot about you 100 post limit. i will have to be careful to be able to post tomorrow as well.

wdym by disengaged?

I have a weird townread on marmot for wanting people to scumread him. Falcon is playing balls to the wall which I like. I have zero scumreads at the moment, but I have barely read the thread.

disengaged like you're not entering the thread with both feet, but just slightly dipping your big toe to test the waters and retreating.

who are your scumleans at this point. preferably at least 3.

Made, wilgy and kyle

Why these three?

In any other game, these three would fit a very particular mold of player who tends to shitpost more than others. What do you see here?

I've already explained my reads on Made and Kyle

wilgy just has a lot of random hit-and-run wolfy popins

[Marmot]

This is my post cap. I can no longer post for the next 3 minutes.

[Nicol Bolas]

Fetch, shock, tap blood crypt for Thoughtseize.

Bolas revealed scum.

Jack revealed scum.

Hk town.

LC town.

Falcon town.

Guillotine for some reason mulled to 0 so no data.

Voted HK for being a prison player who enjoys pickles and for having a mostly green profile picture.

@Marmot these were the only 2 posts i could decipher from wilgy's iso being "game relevant" the rest was in another language i think.

their opening post has 5 reads and 1 null read. is that what made you feel good about wilgy?

Yes, and like I said, it isn't a strong read by any means. I'm open to changing my stance. Why is he not town?

bruh moment post

[Nicol Bolas]

Did I miss something, esooa is playing this game?

I'm here but I've not really wanted to participate in thread too much

it's just messy

The thread is too messy?

when I have been trying to read the thread at other times people were all getting mad at falcon and he was getting mad back

guillo was doing his thing lol

marmot was literally wolf claiming for wifom reasons which is just awful

etc

I have 100 posts, and you're scumreading me for deliberate wifom?

no

read the question asked to me to understand my answer

[Epignosis]

Can people stop worrying about the damn mana? Everyone is going to do what they want to with it anyway.

If your discussion does nothing to help you get a sense if the person you are talking to is trying to banish you to the Spine of the World, what are you having it for?

[Urist]

I don't think that falcon is mafia. I think his posting style is slightly combative, but I have an easy time following his thought process and understanding the reasoning behind his reads, even if some of the interactions with Guillotine and Kyle are a little silly.

On the other hand, I feel that tedxtr isn't trying to solve the game. When I questioned him on his reasons for voting for LC, he couldn't come up with anything, which is fine if it was a misunderstanding, but he hasn't moved his vote. He also hasn't attempted to push or question anyone else. I get the feeling he is on the defensive due to the pressure on him.
I also didn't love his justification around 3-mana-gate, it felt like the nervous response of someone caught in a lie.

[VOTE: tedextr] aubergine

calling people dumb/stupid is also really triggering for me and it feels like a last resort. if kyle is so bad, there are way better ways to show it. i don't think someone being aggressive is a town-tell, i've learned that the hard way recently on TS.

tedxtr: the whole "i misunderstood something something it's all fine now" to his only read in the game without clarifying stuff is another reason i think he's bad. i dont see any inquisition from him and it's more retracting suspicion or laying low and something i feel mafia ted would resort to if he was catching heat early for a potential "slip" maybe.

i think i like both wagons atp in the thread.

Generally I feel that personal attacks are a scum-tell. I think it's seen as a simple way to fake emotion (oh i'm so angry that i'm gonna call you a poopoo head!).

I am also ok with both wagons. I've backed off of ted but I'm still fine with him being yeeted. We'll see what happens at EoD.

I'm out of time to catch up, I have to run out and won't be back home for a while. I should be able to get a vote in if necessary (and if I remember).

[hollowkatt]

@Kylemii @Epignosis @Made Why are y'all on Falcon? Like I really really don't think he's a hit.

I've said why.

Why am I wrong?

when we were getting into the weeds of mafia mana production he said this:

so punish the fool seems like a pretty punishing ability for our team.

the best we can probably do is to make scum play whack-a-mole. we all need mana for something...

fix suggestion : everyone should ask for the mana they need (and that's it - just ask for the mana, don't say what it's for or that it needs priority, etc etc), irregardless of how good or bad their ability is.

loop holes : the mafia will target strong people this way, so we're a bit forced to spread the cards to someone they don't need dead. (PoEish targets that can reasonably be town)

my instinct is to say that 3 mana is a bit tough to gather? so let's not try to get caught up in an ability that takes quite a bit to use anyway.

thoughts / concerns about this?

I don't think that 3 mana is tough to gather. I can produce that much mana in a night. I don't know how many lands you have, but I have three. If that's standard, then this is probably somewhere near equivalent to a wolf giving up their personal ability in order to use Punish The Fool.

Actually, this kind of reads like ted is a wolf with 3 lands who thinks that townies start with fewer.
Why would a townie ever say "3 mana is a bit tough to gather" here?

Or the wolves start with fewer than 3 mana each, which if Ted's scum, leads him to believe town also start with fewer than 3?

I have 3 as well, thought Ted assuming it tricky to acquire a bit unusual

and I snap town read him for it b/c I don't think that's an angle that wolf Falcon ever takes there, unless it's specifically to pocket someone who's been very talkative about how much mana wolves potentially can produce. And it really jibes with what I've been thinking. And finally, I can make 3 mana too

[tutuu]

Post cap has been lifted!

[Marmot]

Did I miss something, esooa is playing this game?

I'm here but I've not really wanted to participate in thread too much

it's just messy

The thread is too messy?

when I have been trying to read the thread at other times people were all getting mad at falcon and he was getting mad back

guillo was doing his thing lol

marmot was literally wolf claiming for wifom reasons which is just awful

etc

I have 100 posts, and you're scumreading me for deliberate wifom?

no

read the question asked to me to understand my answer

I would prefer if you explain it to me like I'm 5.

[Made]

Yeah, okay so it’s still an airy read, but falcon just reads off this game. Like love my dude, but he’s reading off in a way that No one else is from my POV. It reads very self aware in a way Im not use to seeing from falcon, it’s my best shot tho.

some people are saying Over Confident Ballsy Falcon is what makes him town. is that not your experience with him?

It’s not the over confidence, that’s normal. it’s the intentionality for me. He’s not very shifty this game, which seems safe to me

[Long Con]

Can people stop worrying about the damn mana? Everyone is going to do what they want to with it anyway.

If your discussion does nothing to help you get a sense if the person you are talking to is trying to banish you to the Spine of the World, what are you having it for?

The mana discussion is part of the reason I am voting Made. You're being theatrically obstinate, why?

[hollowkatt]

Spoiler: show

the posts i've quoted where he interacted with people (actually think it was like one person or two at most) are just generally awkward wolfish posts

and afaict he has no villagery posts still

what do you think about the dichotomy of him asking to get cliff'd each time he got back in thread and having no pushes and your thoughts about him being townie for "wanting to get down to some mountainous play" even though it doesn't show?

Hi Ted, if Jpic is town, who is scum from your pov?

hk maybe, but my d1 accuracy is not that great when the entire thread is tunneling me

i'll probably have an updated view of the game by next day phase if i'm kept alive

Wow, that's a hedge if I've ever seen one.
"HK is a wolf probably, but like there's too much pressure b/c everyone is tunneling me" except that like two pages ago you said I was a wolf for pursuing you, so am I tunneled town or am I wolf? I can't figure out what your actual read on me is

Doesn’t this hedging only make sense if you’re wolf? Why would you knowingly hedge town (and I’ll answer your falcon question, gimmie a second to make sure I still believe the read)

What?! No, that's not how it works lol
I shouldn't have to explain this to you, but ok here goes: Wolves like to hedge because it gives them an out in both directions. If thread consensus starts to shift towards HK wolf you easily jump on or add fuel to that fire by making more posts about how you thought I was wolfy early and point things out.
If the thread consensus shifts towards HK is town you bail off saying "It was a wolf lean, but yeah, I think they're town now".
It's a two-way read that allows you to move in either direction depending on how the rest of the thread is moving.
That's why it's wolfy.

How do you differentiate between a civilian who is unsure and a mafia member who is hedging?

unsure kinda reads differently to me, at least in my experience anyways. Two-way reads are purposefully open to moving in either direction whereas unsure reads are generally accompanied with explanations of why they're unsure, yeah?
So take that, and combine with other posts they're making, and make an informed read. I mean I know I've caught wolves off of them making two-way reads before, it's one of the most reliable things I catch them on. I think Unsure Reads have more explanations to go along with them AND/OR have some backstory to them.

This "unsure" read comes after Ted hard wolf reads me for a while, then says I'm tunneled town, then goes back to wolf, and won't commit to either direction. Therefore it's not "unsure", it's "hedging"

[Nicol Bolas]

Did I miss something, esooa is playing this game?

I'm here but I've not really wanted to participate in thread too much

it's just messy

The thread is too messy?

when I have been trying to read the thread at other times people were all getting mad at falcon and he was getting mad back

guillo was doing his thing lol

marmot was literally wolf claiming for wifom reasons which is just awful

etc

I have 100 posts, and you're scumreading me for deliberate wifom?

no

read the question asked to me to understand my answer

I would prefer if you explain it to me like I'm 5.

someone asked me why I said the thread was messy and I wasn't too enthusiastic about participating in it

it's not about my read on you

[hollowkatt]

Spoiler: show

Hi Ted, if Jpic is town, who is scum from your pov?

hk maybe, but my d1 accuracy is not that great when the entire thread is tunneling me

i'll probably have an updated view of the game by next day phase if i'm kept alive

Wow, that's a hedge if I've ever seen one.
"HK is a wolf probably, but like there's too much pressure b/c everyone is tunneling me" except that like two pages ago you said I was a wolf for pursuing you, so am I tunneled town or am I wolf? I can't figure out what your actual read on me is

Doesn’t this hedging only make sense if you’re wolf? Why would you knowingly hedge town (and I’ll answer your falcon question, gimmie a second to make sure I still believe the read)

What?! No, that's not how it works lol
I shouldn't have to explain this to you, but ok here goes: Wolves like to hedge because it gives them an out in both directions. If thread consensus starts to shift towards HK wolf you easily jump on or add fuel to that fire by making more posts about how you thought I was wolfy early and point things out.
If the thread consensus shifts towards HK is town you bail off saying "It was a wolf lean, but yeah, I think they're town now".
It's a two-way read that allows you to move in either direction depending on how the rest of the thread is moving.
That's why it's wolfy.

How do you differentiate between a civilian who is unsure and a mafia member who is hedging?

unsure kinda reads differently to me, at least in my experience anyways. Two-way reads are purposefully open to moving in either direction whereas unsure reads are generally accompanied with explanations of why they're unsure, yeah?
So take that, and combine with other posts they're making, and make an informed read. I mean I know I've caught wolves off of them making two-way reads before, it's one of the most reliable things I catch them on. I think Unsure Reads have more explanations to go along with them AND/OR have some backstory to them.

This "unsure" read comes after Ted hard wolf reads me for a while, then says I'm tunneled town, then goes back to wolf, and won't commit to either direction. Therefore it's not "unsure", it's "hedging"

ultimately the fundamental difference is intent, and I think you show that intent through your historical posting.

[Marmot]

Generally I feel that personal attacks are a scum-tell. I think it's seen as a simple way to fake emotion (oh i'm so angry that i'm gonna call you a poopoo head!).

I am also ok with both wagons. I've backed off of ted but I'm still fine with him being yeeted. We'll see what happens at EoD.

I'm out of time to catch up, I have to run out and won't be back home for a while. I should be able to get a vote in if necessary (and if I remember).

Fwiw, falcon called Kyle a dum dum head at one point.

[hollowkatt]

Can people stop worrying about the damn mana? Everyone is going to do what they want to with it anyway.

If your discussion does nothing to help you get a sense if the person you are talking to is trying to banish you to the Spine of the World, what are you having it for?

The mana discussion is part of the reason I am voting Made. You're being theatrically obstinate, why?

wolfy probably

[dunya]

Yeah, okay so it’s still an airy read, but falcon just reads off this game. Like love my dude, but he’s reading off in a way that No one else is from my POV. It reads very self aware in a way Im not use to seeing from falcon, it’s my best shot tho.

some people are saying Over Confident Ballsy Falcon is what makes him town. is that not your experience with him?

It’s not the over confidence, that’s normal. it’s the intentionality for me. He’s not very shifty this game, which seems safe to me

is town falcon a hedgy player?