Fallout 2: A Post-Nuclear Mafia Game [AMERICA RISES]
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Re: Fallout 2: A Post-Nuclear Mafia Game [Day 6]
Fairly sure I spent like most of D1-D3 thinking where I could get allies for my alignment.
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Re: Fallout 2: A Post-Nuclear Mafia Game [Day 6]
if alison gets into a position where she can win by helping enclave execute a townie, do you think she won't take it?MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 16, 2021 10:13 pm^
Yall are reading into it too much imo. Even more so, Alison recently admitted that she's reliant on the Enclave to not get killed as her enemies are likely confirmed town.
she is 100% a number for scum atm.
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Re: Fallout 2: A Post-Nuclear Mafia Game [Day 6]
seriously last time i'm going to talk about it though, at least on d6
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Re: Fallout 2: A Post-Nuclear Mafia Game [Day 6]
[VOTE:
Alison] aubergine
We can kill Chop Chop tomorrow.
Alison likely has a night-vig. So does Frank Horrigan, potentially. Which means they can do up to 3 kills tonight, and we can save one by deleting them.
We can kill Chop Chop tomorrow.
Alison likely has a night-vig. So does Frank Horrigan, potentially. Which means they can do up to 3 kills tonight, and we can save one by deleting them.
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Re: Fallout 2: A Post-Nuclear Mafia Game [Day 6]
Unless we want a re-run of GoC
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Re: Fallout 2: A Post-Nuclear Mafia Game [Day 6]
[VOTE:
Alison] aubergine
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Re: Fallout 2: A Post-Nuclear Mafia Game [Day 6]
Alsion already claimed slaver and just claimed to be helping Enclave.
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Re: Fallout 2: A Post-Nuclear Mafia Game [Day 6]
We don't lose a yeet because if we don't yeet her we will likely have yeet one of our own to get her to town-side.
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Re: Fallout 2: A Post-Nuclear Mafia Game [Day 6]
Like, its probably plain obvious to Enclave who the Slaver's enemies are
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Re: Fallout 2: A Post-Nuclear Mafia Game [Day 6]
GEE, IF ONLY THE ENCLAVE WOULD KILL MY CLEAR-AS-DAY ENEMIES SO I CAN TURN AGAINST THE ENCLAVE
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Re: Fallout 2: A Post-Nuclear Mafia Game [Day 6]
Don't forget that the enclave know who they are so figuring out alignments, especially with the claims and mech info we've given today, its probably obvious to them who most of the rest of the town are.
All they gotta do is tip-toe into balancing killing who they necessarily need to kill in order to live, but also not kill Alison's enemies to get her to scum-side.
All they gotta do is tip-toe into balancing killing who they necessarily need to kill in order to live, but also not kill Alison's enemies to get her to scum-side.
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Re: Fallout 2: A Post-Nuclear Mafia Game [Day 6]
Like Alison can't 3P-side, she has to town-side or scum-side
and with the current state of the game Town will lose the auction as the Enclave are in a better position to manipulate it
and with the current state of the game Town will lose the auction as the Enclave are in a better position to manipulate it
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Re: Fallout 2: A Post-Nuclear Mafia Game [Day 6]
Heck ChopChop admitting wolf for no very good reason other than to tell Alison who to shoot
is probably symbollic of the Enclave wanting Chop Chop dead instead of Alison
is probably symbollic of the Enclave wanting Chop Chop dead instead of Alison
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Re: Fallout 2: A Post-Nuclear Mafia Game [Day 6]
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Re: Fallout 2: A Post-Nuclear Mafia Game [Day 6]
It's not a matter of whetherSeanzie wrote: ↑Tue Mar 16, 2021 3:11 pmYes, Alison might, but if both Frank and Alison shoot, we lose one yeet. If only one shoots, we lose one yeet. So the only case where yeeting Alison might make sense is if Alison has a shot, and Frank does not, which I'd guess isn't the case, and also again since we can win with Alison alive, it is optimal to yeet in Enclave here.
"we can win" with Alison.
Its a matter of "How likely will we win with Alison".
Right now the Enclave have likely asked themselves the same question, and given that they can manipulate night-kills, WIFOM all they want, and etc, they have a better chance of getting Alison to side with them.
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Re: Fallout 2: A Post-Nuclear Mafia Game [Day 6]
Let's be honest the whole GoC was a test of the argument
"We can win with them"
Only to lose to 3P after ~19,000 posts in that game.
"We can win with them"
Only to lose to 3P after ~19,000 posts in that game.
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Re: Fallout 2: A Post-Nuclear Mafia Game [Day 6]
Heck we also used
"We can win with them"
In Shadow Corridors.
The 3P scum-sided and the scum won with their last member, who was @Marmot as the Thunder Cat sockpuppet account.
"We can win with them"
In Shadow Corridors.
The 3P scum-sided and the scum won with their last member, who was @Marmot as the Thunder Cat sockpuppet account.
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Re: Fallout 2: A Post-Nuclear Mafia Game [Day 6]
@Seanzie
The history and the arguments I present here are compelling enough, whether its LYLO or MYLO in the end of the game doesn't really matter imo, and that assumes we get to Lylo and Mylo for sucking so bad as to failing to catch Enclave when we got some strong towns
Where said strong towns can be killed by Alison tonight
The history and the arguments I present here are compelling enough, whether its LYLO or MYLO in the end of the game doesn't really matter imo, and that assumes we get to Lylo and Mylo for sucking so bad as to failing to catch Enclave when we got some strong towns
Where said strong towns can be killed by Alison tonight
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Re: Fallout 2: A Post-Nuclear Mafia Game [Day 6]
Alison should die today. Then ChopChop.
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Re: Fallout 2: A Post-Nuclear Mafia Game [Day 6]
^^^^This^^^^^TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Tue Mar 16, 2021 3:19 pm the question of can we manipulate alison into doing what we want is inherently dangerous
Enclave have a better ability of doing this than the town does:
1) Some towns are de-facto end-of-story Alison's enemies.
2) The Enclave control the night-kills.
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Re: Fallout 2: A Post-Nuclear Mafia Game [Day 6]
MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 16, 2021 10:31 pm Heck we also used
"We can win with them"
In Shadow Corridors.
The 3P scum-sided and the scum won with their last member, who was @Marmot as the Thunder Cat sockpuppet account.
These are not the same. We know exactly what Slaver's win con and abilities are here, and whether or not we need them dead.
Can we at least kill Chop Chop first so we can flip his role and talk about him afterward?
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Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 7:33 pm Just how many days of "let's yeet them tomorrow" can a mafioso survive?
The answer: all of them, if you are a marmot.
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Re: Fallout 2: A Post-Nuclear Mafia Game [Day 6]
Okay, fine.
Maybe you did shoot.
Fact remains though that Enclave have better ability to manipulate you than town does.
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Re: Fallout 2: A Post-Nuclear Mafia Game [Day 6]
If Enclave leaves my targets alive then I'm going to intentionally deny them the victory because doing so would risk ending the game with my targets alive, thus making me lose.
Enclave's only hope is to kill my targets for me and pray I am grateful enough to vote with them.
Enclave's only hope is to kill my targets for me and pray I am grateful enough to vote with them.
There's nothing that says a fake can't surpass the real thing.
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Re: Fallout 2: A Post-Nuclear Mafia Game [Day 6]
If chop-chop votes tomorrow he's going to be spewing or antispewing, if anyone is interested in that. I'm not.Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Mar 16, 2021 10:38 pmMartinGG99 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 16, 2021 10:31 pm Heck we also used
"We can win with them"
In Shadow Corridors.
The 3P scum-sided and the scum won with their last member, who was @Marmot as the Thunder Cat sockpuppet account.
These are not the same. We know exactly what Slaver's win con and abilities are here, and whether or not we need them dead.
Can we at least kill Chop Chop first so we can flip his role and talk about him afterward?
Or none at all and just doesn't vote.
Alison, however, can vote and wouldn't really be (anti-)spewing anything.
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Re: Fallout 2: A Post-Nuclear Mafia Game [Day 6]
Whatever. Both have to go and both are outted and I doubt either of them have anything that useful left. I guess the potential Alison kill (which I doubt she has) is the most dangerous thing either of them can do so sure.
[VOTE: Alison] aubergine
[VOTE: Alison] aubergine
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Re: Fallout 2: A Post-Nuclear Mafia Game [Day 6]
I'm not sure if I agree with that per my earlier arguments.Alison wrote: ↑Tue Mar 16, 2021 10:41 pm If Enclave leaves my targets alive then I'm going to intentionally deny them the victory because doing so would risk ending the game with my targets alive, thus making me lose.
Enclave's only hope is to kill my targets for me and pray I am grateful enough to vote with them.
Chance are they can just ensure they kill all but close to 80% of your enemies, but not cross-over.
Besides, I don't like how everyone thinks Town has a better handle on this when they don't. Past games have shown that knowing who the 3P is, even if being uncertain and nothing garunteed about their role, shows the 3P lives and gets a favorable win.
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Re: Fallout 2: A Post-Nuclear Mafia Game [Day 6]
MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 16, 2021 10:42 pmIf chop-chop votes tomorrow he's going to be spewing or antispewing, if anyone is interested in that. I'm not.Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Mar 16, 2021 10:38 pmMartinGG99 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 16, 2021 10:31 pm Heck we also used
"We can win with them"
In Shadow Corridors.
The 3P scum-sided and the scum won with their last member, who was @Marmot as the Thunder Cat sockpuppet account.
These are not the same. We know exactly what Slaver's win con and abilities are here, and whether or not we need them dead.
Can we at least kill Chop Chop first so we can flip his role and talk about him afterward?
Or none at all and just doesn't vote.
Alison, however, can vote and wouldn't really be (anti-)spewing anything.
I can't tell if this is an argument for or against ChopChop going first.
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Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 7:33 pm Just how many days of "let's yeet them tomorrow" can a mafioso survive?
The answer: all of them, if you are a marmot.
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Re: Fallout 2: A Post-Nuclear Mafia Game [Day 6]
If they both have a night vig, then Alison's doesn't hurt us much since we are currently at an odd number of players, and if we block one night vig but not the other, we end up with even numbers and have to guess at when we are in mylo (so it is actually better for them both to shoot rather than just one since we are guaranteed to get to lylo that way, which is better than mylo... of course this is assuming no more blocks or unexpected NAs, which is probably not a crazy bad assumption considering how late it is in the game and how many actions have already happened). The only case where it might make sense to yeet Alison is if Alison has a nightvig and Frank does not, and idk, by your own analysis that seems unlikely.MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 16, 2021 10:16 pm [VOTE: Alison] aubergine
We can kill Chop Chop tomorrow.
Alison likely has a night-vig. So does Frank Horrigan, potentially. Which means they can do up to 3 kills tonight, and we can save one by deleting them.
Aside from night vig, Alison wolfsiding tomorrow is strictly better for town than Chop Chop still being around (since Chop is clearly wolfsiding and Chop's vote can at least be used strategically by mafia, whereas Alison's is not so easy to use)
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Re: Fallout 2: A Post-Nuclear Mafia Game [Day 6]
I need 1 person from each enemy faction dead at a minimum. Dom is Arroyo, VC is wiped out. So I need someone from Redding and someone from BOS killed. Epi (who is probably Chosen One/Arroyo) will likely die too in the process, meaning I have 6 dead. 6 is probably 80% of my targets dead.
If mafia doesn't kill Kyle/Redding player then they'll get auto'd by whoever claims Redding (almost certainly only one since no claims so far) and Kyle/Epi as the confirmed towncore.
Therefore Enclave is forced to kill my targets or they get mech locked out of the game by conftown. This is why I outed, I wouldn't otherwise.
If mafia doesn't kill Kyle/Redding player then they'll get auto'd by whoever claims Redding (almost certainly only one since no claims so far) and Kyle/Epi as the confirmed towncore.
Therefore Enclave is forced to kill my targets or they get mech locked out of the game by conftown. This is why I outed, I wouldn't otherwise.
There's nothing that says a fake can't surpass the real thing.
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Re: Fallout 2: A Post-Nuclear Mafia Game [Day 6]
But like... chop vs Alison... Chop doesn't even need to be manipluated, he just literally is a wolf and will do whatever the wolves want. Alison maybe does wolfside, but she would be essentially outed lone wolf, and outed lone wolf is always less of a threat than outed regular wolf.MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 16, 2021 10:40 pmOkay, fine.
Maybe you did shoot.
Fact remains though that Enclave have better ability to manipulate you than town does.
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Re: Fallout 2: A Post-Nuclear Mafia Game [Day 6]
Its more meant to persuade others than it is an argument that I personally care about.
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Re: Fallout 2: A Post-Nuclear Mafia Game [Day 6]
Yeah we're killing the people who are or are likely going to be manipulated by the Enclave.Seanzie wrote: ↑Tue Mar 16, 2021 10:51 pmBut like... chop vs Alison... Chop doesn't even need to be manipluated, he just literally is a wolf and will do whatever the wolves want. Alison maybe does wolfside, but she would be essentially outed lone wolf, and outed lone wolf is always less of a threat than outed regular wolf.MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 16, 2021 10:40 pmOkay, fine.
Maybe you did shoot.
Fact remains though that Enclave have better ability to manipulate you than town does.
The game ends when Enclave + Vault City dies, and that means Alison has to get enough of her enemies killed before Enclave is dead.
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Re: Fallout 2: A Post-Nuclear Mafia Game [Pre-game]
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Feb 26, 2021 12:28 am How the hell does the game end?
1) Enclave destroyed by the end of Night 5 -- all blue, cyan, and soft green factions win. Slaver and Vault City may or may not win pending circumstances.
2) Enclave destroyed, Slaver is dead, and Vault City cannot achieve win condition.
3) Enclave destroyed and Vault City has achieved win condition.
4) Enclave and Vault City are both destroyed.
5) Enclave meets win condition.
6) Any other eventualities, if applicable, are assessed by the host case-by-case and a sensible endgame is determined. No endgame will be allowed featuring only "town" (blue, cyan, and soft green) factions -- if all others are eliminated, regardless of win condition, the game will end. If the game is active, at least one non-"town" player is alive (Slaver, Vault City, and/or Enclave).
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Re: Fallout 2: A Post-Nuclear Mafia Game [Day 6]
But like... Chop has to do that... EVEN MORE... and Chop has access to wolfchat which makes him wayyy more dangerous to town than (novigleft) Alison could be. It is a strict inequality comparison unless Alison has a shot left (and then it is unclear if it is better or not as I explained, due to numbers, it is better to have 2 or 0 shots remaining, not just 1).MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 16, 2021 10:55 pmYeah we're killing the people who are or are likely going to be manipulated by the Enclave.Seanzie wrote: ↑Tue Mar 16, 2021 10:51 pmBut like... chop vs Alison... Chop doesn't even need to be manipluated, he just literally is a wolf and will do whatever the wolves want. Alison maybe does wolfside, but she would be essentially outed lone wolf, and outed lone wolf is always less of a threat than outed regular wolf.MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 16, 2021 10:40 pmOkay, fine.
Maybe you did shoot.
Fact remains though that Enclave have better ability to manipulate you than town does.
The game ends when Enclave + Vault City dies, and that means Alison has to get enough of her enemies killed before Enclave is dead.
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Re: Fallout 2: A Post-Nuclear Mafia Game [Day 6]
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Re: Fallout 2: A Post-Nuclear Mafia Game [Day 6]
I guess I keep coming back to the main point. All town members need Enclave dead. Most town members don't need Alison dead.
Alison needs maybe 1-2 more town dead at this point. Enclave needs to reach parity.
Alison needs maybe 1-2 more town dead at this point. Enclave needs to reach parity.
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Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 7:33 pm Just how many days of "let's yeet them tomorrow" can a mafioso survive?
The answer: all of them, if you are a marmot.
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Re: Fallout 2: A Post-Nuclear Mafia Game [Day 6]
Alison basically has to do the same, given a number of the town (including you) are her enemies, and has an unlikelyhood of having a gun.Seanzie wrote: ↑Tue Mar 16, 2021 10:59 pmBut like... Chop has to do that... EVEN MORE... and Chop has access to wolfchat which makes him wayyy more dangerous to town than (novigleft) Alison could be. It is a strict inequality comparison unless Alison has a shot left (and then it is unclear if it is better or not as I explained, due to numbers, it is better to have 2 or 0 shots remaining, not just 1).MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 16, 2021 10:55 pmYeah we're killing the people who are or are likely going to be manipulated by the Enclave.Seanzie wrote: ↑Tue Mar 16, 2021 10:51 pmBut like... chop vs Alison... Chop doesn't even need to be manipluated, he just literally is a wolf and will do whatever the wolves want. Alison maybe does wolfside, but she would be essentially outed lone wolf, and outed lone wolf is always less of a threat than outed regular wolf.MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 16, 2021 10:40 pmOkay, fine.
Maybe you did shoot.
Fact remains though that Enclave have better ability to manipulate you than town does.
The game ends when Enclave + Vault City dies, and that means Alison has to get enough of her enemies killed before Enclave is dead.
Town doesn't win in trying to manipulate her imo.
Dom - Arroyo
Esooa - Vault
Mac - Vault
--Dead--
Epi - Arroyo
Seanzie - Redding
Kylemii - BoS
In order to reach 80% or more dead, 2 of the bottom have to die assuming there's no more Arroyo or Redding. And if there is, trying to get Alison to town-side will be tought.
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Re: Fallout 2: A Post-Nuclear Mafia Game [Day 6]
All Enclave has to do is kill maybe 1 and just leave the others to like F5 and Alisno will invaribly scum-side imo.
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Re: Fallout 2: A Post-Nuclear Mafia Game [Day 6]
This is like the only reason why it might make sense to kill (novigleft) Alison over Chop here, but I really don't think it is worth losing a day to do it. We need to be hunting more enclave tomorrow, not waiting for chop to get chopped. At the end of the day Alison is an optional kill, and with unlimited VAT points (days) left, I'd say go for it, but we have only so many days left, and so there is no reason to waste one chopping outed 3P that is probably toothless at this point.
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Re: Fallout 2: A Post-Nuclear Mafia Game [Day 6]
ActuallyMartinGG99 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 16, 2021 11:03 pm Alison basically has to do the same, given a number of the town (including you) are her enemies, and has an unlikelyhood of having a gun.
Town doesn't win in trying to manipulate her imo.
Dom - Arroyo
Esooa - Vault
Mac - Vault
--Dead--
Epi - Arroyo
Seanzie - Redding
Kylemii - BoS
In order to reach 80% or more dead, 2 of the bottom have to die assuming there's no more Arroyo or Redding. And if there is, trying to get Alison to town-side will be tought.
They could even kill Epi + Kylemii and Alison would still have to scum-side to get rid of Seanzie.JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Feb 26, 2021 12:28 am The Slaver wins the game if they survive with at least 80% of the combined members (and at least one each) of the Arroyo, Redding, Vault City, and Brotherhood of Steel factions eliminated
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Re: Fallout 2: A Post-Nuclear Mafia Game [Day 6]
We could in effect just lose 3 towns over trying to fight over who controls Alison's wincon
and IMO the chances of us losing that fight are much more likely than winning it
and IMO the chances of us losing that fight are much more likely than winning it
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Re: Fallout 2: A Post-Nuclear Mafia Game [Day 6]
I was pushing chop but Tony was only talking about chop and chop was pushing tony. I found that whole thing to be annoying actually, and I knew chop was likely scum and tony was probably another scum team with actual info on chop.
That was my first read. I think chop was more annoying to be honest. Tony was cool.
Now we know there’s one team left so tony is lock clear.
Re: Fallout 2: A Post-Nuclear Mafia Game [Day 6]
Let’s fucking go. Which team do you need to die to win?
Re: Fallout 2: A Post-Nuclear Mafia Game [Day 6]
Why is Alison and enclave working together? What if Alison is actually a wolf on chop team and they just fucking around? That’s very good plan by her. Claim 3P day 1 and survive this long.MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 16, 2021 10:13 pm^
Yall are reading into it too much imo. Even more so, Alison recently admitted that she's reliant on the Enclave to not get killed as her enemies are likely confirmed town.
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Re: Fallout 2: A Post-Nuclear Mafia Game [Day 6]
You're a hubologist right?
So would you rather kill Alison or Epignosis?
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Re: Fallout 2: A Post-Nuclear Mafia Game [Day 6]
im an idiot I misread
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Re: Fallout 2: A Post-Nuclear Mafia Game [Day 6]
But yeah hubologists wanting Alison to slightly scum-side makes sense since they need Epi or LC dead. Unless there's more wastelanders.
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Re: Fallout 2: A Post-Nuclear Mafia Game [Day 6]
Frank should just shoot chop tonight and we vote Alison instead.MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 16, 2021 10:16 pm [VOTE: Alison] aubergine
We can kill Chop Chop tomorrow.
Alison likely has a night-vig. So does Frank Horrigan, potentially. Which means they can do up to 3 kills tonight, and we can save one by deleting them.
This only if don’t believe Alison shot. If she shot then she’s not a threat and frank can shoot a wolfy person like Daisy or poison or one of those people hiding.