You've lost track of my point entirely.falcon45ca wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:34 amIt's true. And LC saw it happen, so I'm not sure why he's acting like it's not a possibilityfingersplints wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:31 amIn the last game we played, Bee Mafia, two mafia voted together for their third mafia member Day 1. This allowed them to win.Long Con wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:27 amOne reason mafia wouldn't vote together is that they don't want to be associated, but that's neither here nor there - your reverse question isn't pertinent.JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:21 amWhy wouldn't mafia vote together in a situation like this? What kind of situation is this?
The situation is voting for a player who has no other votes, in the first half of day 1.
I’m not saying this is exactly the same situation, but I definitely am rethinking what “mafia wouldn’t do” after that game.
Fargo Mafia [Game Ends]
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Re: Fargo Mafia [DAY 1]
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Re: Fargo Mafia [DAY 1]
Funnily enough that whole 2 mafia votes on me in Bee mafia wasn't planned. I think it just kinda helped.
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Re: Fargo Mafia [DAY 1]
My first instinct is that Long Con is doing that incredulous town thing where you dismiss an idea that sounds unlikely on the surface even if it really isn't farfetched. I probably won't take that read anywhere though, because it's tiny and weak. Long Con told me not to force it.
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Re: Fargo Mafia [DAY 1]
I'm not clear - what idea am I dismissing?JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:37 am My first instinct is that Long Con is doing that incredulous town thing where you dismiss an idea that sounds unlikely on the surface even if it really isn't farfetched. I probably won't take that read anywhere though, because it's tiny and weak. Long Con told me not to force it.
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Re: Fargo Mafia [DAY 1]
The notion that two mafia would act as the only two votes for the same player halfway through Day 1. I would find that rather unremarkable.Long Con wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:38 amI'm not clear - what idea am I dismissing?JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:37 am My first instinct is that Long Con is doing that incredulous town thing where you dismiss an idea that sounds unlikely on the surface even if it really isn't farfetched. I probably won't take that read anywhere though, because it's tiny and weak. Long Con told me not to force it.
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Re: Fargo Mafia [DAY 1]
To be fair I tend to think wagon formations and "wagonomics" and those sorts of things are not nearly as useful as they'd need to be to justify how often they are assessed. I just don't care much about that kind of stuff.
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Re: Fargo Mafia [DAY 1]
I'm not dismissing that. You asked me for a reason why two mafia might want to NOT vote the same person. I came up with one and told you that the point isn't relevant.JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:39 amThe notion that two mafia would act as the only two votes for the same player halfway through Day 1. I would find that rather unremarkable.Long Con wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:38 amI'm not clear - what idea am I dismissing?JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:37 am My first instinct is that Long Con is doing that incredulous town thing where you dismiss an idea that sounds unlikely on the surface even if it really isn't farfetched. I probably won't take that read anywhere though, because it's tiny and weak. Long Con told me not to force it.
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Re: Fargo Mafia [DAY 1]
I'm referring to your initial response to Oddmerta's gripe. Whatever though, I don't view this dialogue as being especially informative.Long Con wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:41 amI'm not dismissing that. You asked me for a reason why two mafia might want to NOT vote the same person. I came up with one and told you that the point isn't relevant.JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:39 amThe notion that two mafia would act as the only two votes for the same player halfway through Day 1. I would find that rather unremarkable.Long Con wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:38 amI'm not clear - what idea am I dismissing?JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:37 am My first instinct is that Long Con is doing that incredulous town thing where you dismiss an idea that sounds unlikely on the surface even if it really isn't farfetched. I probably won't take that read anywhere though, because it's tiny and weak. Long Con told me not to force it.
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Re: Fargo Mafia [DAY 1]
I still got lots of pages to catch up on, but I’ll definitely try to get to it today because I think I probably have a lot of neutrals still, so looking at the list might help me.JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:34 amHowdy splints, would you be willing to throw together a reads list for everyone, or at least name a top 3-5 town and top 3-5 mafia? It would help to frame your current view of business.fingersplints wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:31 amIn the last game we played, Bee Mafia, two mafia voted together for their third mafia member Day 1. This allowed them to win.
I’m not saying this is exactly the same situation, but I definitely am rethinking what “mafia wouldn’t do” after that game.
I’m very slow today. It was a horrible night for me and today has been blah
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Re: Fargo Mafia [DAY 1]
Take your time, we have 31 hours!fingersplints wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:44 amI still got lots of pages to catch up on, but I’ll definitely try to get to it today because I think I probably have a lot of neutrals still, so looking at the list might help me.JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:34 amHowdy splints, would you be willing to throw together a reads list for everyone, or at least name a top 3-5 town and top 3-5 mafia? It would help to frame your current view of business.fingersplints wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:31 amIn the last game we played, Bee Mafia, two mafia voted together for their third mafia member Day 1. This allowed them to win.
I’m not saying this is exactly the same situation, but I definitely am rethinking what “mafia wouldn’t do” after that game.
I’m very slow today. It was a horrible night for me and today has been blah
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Re: Fargo Mafia [DAY 1]
I wouldn’t suspect two players for ONLY the reason of voting for the same personLong Con wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:36 amThat's probably a good thing, but do you suspect two players that vote for the same player because of it, moving forward?fingersplints wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:31 amIn the last game we played, Bee Mafia, two mafia voted together for their third mafia member Day 1. This allowed them to win.Long Con wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:27 amOne reason mafia wouldn't vote together is that they don't want to be associated, but that's neither here nor there - your reverse question isn't pertinent.JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:21 amWhy wouldn't mafia vote together in a situation like this? What kind of situation is this?
The situation is voting for a player who has no other votes, in the first half of day 1.
I’m not saying this is exactly the same situation, but I definitely am rethinking what “mafia wouldn’t do” after that game.
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Re: Fargo Mafia [DAY 1]
Would you like it to be? I can explain my point again, since you missed it.JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:42 amI'm referring to your initial response to Oddmerta's gripe. Whatever though, I don't view this dialogue as being especially informative.Long Con wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:41 amI'm not dismissing that. You asked me for a reason why two mafia might want to NOT vote the same person. I came up with one and told you that the point isn't relevant.JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:39 amThe notion that two mafia would act as the only two votes for the same player halfway through Day 1. I would find that rather unremarkable.Long Con wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:38 amI'm not clear - what idea am I dismissing?JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:37 am My first instinct is that Long Con is doing that incredulous town thing where you dismiss an idea that sounds unlikely on the surface even if it really isn't farfetched. I probably won't take that read anywhere though, because it's tiny and weak. Long Con told me not to force it.
My point is that Oddmerta is using the fact that I voted alongside someone that Odd suspects, as evidence that I'm bad.
I don't think that's genuine logic. Two scum CAN vote together, but is such a thing SO LIKELY that you form a suspicion on one player merely because that player voted alongside another? Of course not, that is not logical at all. Furthermore, Oddmerta fluffed it off and didn't confront or clarify that accusation, which looks bad.
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Re: Fargo Mafia [DAY 1]
EXACTLY. But Oddmerta is. Is that not worth thinking about?fingersplints wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:46 amI wouldn’t suspect two players for ONLY the reason of voting for the same personLong Con wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:36 amThat's probably a good thing, but do you suspect two players that vote for the same player because of it, moving forward?fingersplints wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:31 amIn the last game we played, Bee Mafia, two mafia voted together for their third mafia member Day 1. This allowed them to win.Long Con wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:27 amOne reason mafia wouldn't vote together is that they don't want to be associated, but that's neither here nor there - your reverse question isn't pertinent.JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:21 amWhy wouldn't mafia vote together in a situation like this? What kind of situation is this?
The situation is voting for a player who has no other votes, in the first half of day 1.
I’m not saying this is exactly the same situation, but I definitely am rethinking what “mafia wouldn’t do” after that game.
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Re: Fargo Mafia [DAY 1]
I tend to see that as confirmation bias. I think confirmation bias would be the story of Oddmerta's entire post history if he is a civilian.Long Con wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:48 am Would you like it to be? I can explain my point again, since you missed it.
My point is that Oddmerta is using the fact that I voted alongside someone that Odd suspects, as evidence that I'm bad.
I don't think that's genuine logic. Two scum CAN vote together, but is such a thing SO LIKELY that you form a suspicion on one player merely because that player voted alongside another? Of course not, that is not logical at all. Furthermore, Oddmerta fluffed it off and didn't confront or clarify that accusation, which looks bad.
@Oddmerta should answer this for himself anyway.
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Re: Fargo Mafia [DAY 1]
I agree. Oddmerta also hasn't explained their scum reads. So far it's just "i think they're bad" with zero context. Not providing context to your reads/thoughts makes ther game 10x harder to solve.Long Con wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:48 amWould you like it to be? I can explain my point again, since you missed it.JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:42 amI'm referring to your initial response to Oddmerta's gripe. Whatever though, I don't view this dialogue as being especially informative.Long Con wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:41 amI'm not dismissing that. You asked me for a reason why two mafia might want to NOT vote the same person. I came up with one and told you that the point isn't relevant.JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:39 amThe notion that two mafia would act as the only two votes for the same player halfway through Day 1. I would find that rather unremarkable.Long Con wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:38 amI'm not clear - what idea am I dismissing?JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:37 am My first instinct is that Long Con is doing that incredulous town thing where you dismiss an idea that sounds unlikely on the surface even if it really isn't farfetched. I probably won't take that read anywhere though, because it's tiny and weak. Long Con told me not to force it.
My point is that Oddmerta is using the fact that I voted alongside someone that Odd suspects, as evidence that I'm bad.
I don't think that's genuine logic. Two scum CAN vote together, but is such a thing SO LIKELY that you form a suspicion on one player merely because that player voted alongside another? Of course not, that is not logical at all. Furthermore, Oddmerta fluffed it off and didn't confront or clarify that accusation, which looks bad.
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Re: Fargo Mafia [DAY 1]
I suspected them first, of course I'm going to notice them voting for the same person
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Re: Fargo Mafia [DAY 1]
I vocalized my non-elimination vote in the thread. That's the other big gotcha moment Odd caught me in - besides voting alongside my teammate.
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Re: Fargo Mafia [DAY 1]
Let's play a game:
Is this low-hanging fruit, or is this a justifiable suspect?
AL_sama
BoKnows
fingersplints
JPIC
KZA
Long Con
Marmot
tedxtr
I extract these specific names because they strike me as applicable to the question -- either facing generic suspicions or otherwise pretty blank slates.
Is this low-hanging fruit, or is this a justifiable suspect?
AL_sama
BoKnows
fingersplints
JPIC
KZA
Long Con
Marmot
tedxtr
I extract these specific names because they strike me as applicable to the question -- either facing generic suspicions or otherwise pretty blank slates.
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Re: Fargo Mafia [DAY 1]
Number of things, bad entrances, not solving etc. Call it confirmation bias if you want, I usually end up being right
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Re: Fargo Mafia [DAY 1]
What is it if he's not?JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:50 amI tend to see that as confirmation bias. I think confirmation bias would be the story of Oddmerta's entire post history if he is a civilian.Long Con wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:48 am Would you like it to be? I can explain my point again, since you missed it.
My point is that Oddmerta is using the fact that I voted alongside someone that Odd suspects, as evidence that I'm bad.
I don't think that's genuine logic. Two scum CAN vote together, but is such a thing SO LIKELY that you form a suspicion on one player merely because that player voted alongside another? Of course not, that is not logical at all. Furthermore, Oddmerta fluffed it off and didn't confront or clarify that accusation, which looks bad.
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Re: Fargo Mafia [DAY 1]
Then the accusation is b/s. Not much else to say about that. When I look at the post, confirmation bias is the first interpretation I come to.
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Re: Fargo Mafia [DAY 1]
AL_sama - nullJaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:59 am Let's play a game:
Is this low-hanging fruit, or is this a justifiable suspect?
AL_sama
BoKnows
fingersplints
JPIC
KZA
Long Con
Marmot
tedxtr
I extract these specific names because they strike me as applicable to the question -- either facing generic suspicions or otherwise pretty blank slates.
BoKnows - Town
fingersplints - low-hanging
JPIC - null
KZA - low-hanging
Long Con - low-hanging
Marmot - null
tedxtr - null
I don't have a solid scum suspect yet, but Oddmerta is starting to cross my mind
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Re: Fargo Mafia [DAY 1]
Those don't seem like real reasons to me.
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Re: Fargo Mafia [DAY 1]
Me neither. Are you... listening to me?
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Re: Fargo Mafia [DAY 1]
I think I’ve finally reached the one you were asking why i didn’t comment on.Esooa wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 2:37 amyes I know. His tone is way too serious, as if he's very much tryharding.TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 8:56 pm A few things have thrown me off from the beginning but his current vote for Marmot is something that inclines me to think that way as well. I also just don't think his iso is carrying the proper tone and I'm wondering if his read on sloonei was developed improperly. He also also seems hesistant to say things that I wouldn't usually think he'd be hesitant to say. I did like the post he made where he talked about sloonei/jay mutual TRs and how seriously they're taken or something though idk
this is probably just the usual day 1 jay tinfoil but that's where I'm at
If you haven’t answered it already - why is a serious tone a bad thing? Do you think a serious tone is abnormal for jjj?
I prefer more serious to more fluff posts, so I don’t find anything wrong with jjj posts, and I find the content quite normal and similar to other town games I have seen from him.
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Re: Fargo Mafia [DAY 1]
I don't think "bad" entrances are AI.
Not solving is a legitimate reason. I wouldn't say that Long Con isn't solving tbh.
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Re: Fargo Mafia [DAY 1]
What does “ymmv” mean?NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 2:39 am Jay is definitely try harding, whether you think that's mafia or not...ymmv
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Re: Fargo Mafia [DAY 1]
Yeah I'm just agreeing with you :PLong Con wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:04 amMe neither. Are you... listening to me?
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Re: Fargo Mafia [DAY 1]
Alright, it's been long enough now. Does anybody still think that JPIC is civilian?
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Re: Fargo Mafia [DAY 1]
Thanks for your response. I'm still wiggling them around in the old noodle. The old pasta.
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Re: Fargo Mafia [DAY 1]
your mileage may varyfingersplints wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:05 amWhat does “ymmv” mean?NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 2:39 am Jay is definitely try harding, whether you think that's mafia or not...ymmv
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Re: Fargo Mafia [DAY 1]
For what it's worth everyone I marked with null I haven't seen much or any of their posts.JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:06 amThanks for your response. I'm still wiggling them around in the old noodle. The old pasta.
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Re: Fargo Mafia [DAY 1]
Where I come from entrances are alignment indicative, it's called oneposting. Where you catch a wolf from a single post they make, the entry post is a good place to do thatBoKnows wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:05 amI don't think "bad" entrances are AI.
Not solving is a legitimate reason. I wouldn't say that Long Con isn't solving tbh.
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Re: Fargo Mafia [DAY 1]
I knew you would like that.
Don’t worry. Reviewing the you/oddmerta situation is on my to do list.
Gro-oo-ovy
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Re: Fargo Mafia [DAY 1]
Nice opportunity for a perspective from @MacDougall, resident first-post-grader.Oddmerta wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:08 amWhere I come from entrances are alignment indicative, it's called oneposting. Where you catch a wolf from a single post they make, the entry post is a good place to do thatBoKnows wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:05 amI don't think "bad" entrances are AI.
Not solving is a legitimate reason. I wouldn't say that Long Con isn't solving tbh.
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Re: Fargo Mafia [DAY 1]
JPIC at some point had thread motivation?staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:16 am i was hoping that the heat getting off of JPIC for a while would encourage him to scumhunt and solve the game on his own time - but it seems to have done the complete opposite. it worries me that JPIC's motivation in the thread was the highest when he was under suspicion
Or suspicion?
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Re: Fargo Mafia [DAY 1]
Fair enough, it's my first hearing about this. I generally think that judging ones entry post is useful to move the game along from the early meme stage.Oddmerta wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:08 amWhere I come from entrances are alignment indicative, it's called oneposting. Where you catch a wolf from a single post they make, the entry post is a good place to do thatBoKnows wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:05 amI don't think "bad" entrances are AI.
Not solving is a legitimate reason. I wouldn't say that Long Con isn't solving tbh.
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Re: Fargo Mafia [DAY 1]
Wow.BoKnows wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:06 amYeah I'm just agreeing with you :PLong Con wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:04 amMe neither. Are you... listening to me?
So that's what that feels like.
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Re: Fargo Mafia [DAY 1]
Now THERES the syndicate POEJaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:25 amSpoiler: show
POE pool
KZA
Long Con
Dom
Marmot
Tony
JPIC
BoKnows
Al_Sama
tedxtr
~~~
Which read(s) in the spoiler am I wrong about, gang?
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Re: Fargo Mafia [DAY 1]
Soak it inLong Con wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:12 amWow.BoKnows wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:06 amYeah I'm just agreeing with you :PLong Con wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:04 amMe neither. Are you... listening to me?
So that's what that feels like.
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Re: Fargo Mafia [DAY 1]
There's a reason the deep ones are called deep. Those who think they can snare them earlier usually lose games.
Spoiler: show