Fargo Mafia [Game Ends]

[Long Con]

Joseph set up a "not serious, it's mind games" vibe. I guess mind games can be non-trolling, but it's easy to conclude that he's trolling when he's playing mind games.

Who's Joe?

Also how would Mac benefit from "trolling" ted? I don't see a world where Mac can gain from trolling another player.

Macdougall is Joseph.

[Long Con]

Joseph set up a "not serious, it's mind games" vibe. I guess mind games can be non-trolling, but it's easy to conclude that he's trolling when he's playing mind games.

Who's Joe?

Also how would Mac benefit from "trolling" ted? I don't see a world where Mac can gain from trolling another player.

The benefits of trolling... I don't know, I think the troller would need to answer that one. I don't think I do much trolling here. Maybe on Facebook.

[BoKnows]

Joseph set up a "not serious, it's mind games" vibe. I guess mind games can be non-trolling, but it's easy to conclude that he's trolling when he's playing mind games.

Who's Joe?

Also how would Mac benefit from "trolling" ted? I don't see a world where Mac can gain from trolling another player.

The benefits of trolling... I don't know, I think the troller would need to answer that one. I don't think I do much trolling here. Maybe on Facebook.

I was thinking the same thing. I didn't think people trolled in mafia games.

To finish my original thought. Ted discrediting Mac's suspicion is fine, but the way he did seemed weird. With that being said I don't think scum would just call somone a troll and dip.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I expect to have a busy afternoon today and probably won't be around much until an hour or two pre-deadline. I think it has been a good Day 0/1, and I trust everyone to keep our heads on straight. I think right now we're in that natural stage of the process where a general POE pool has developed, and we explore the various people in it to figure out 1) if one is the clear best choice for a vote and 2) if there's cause to wonder about the validity of that POE pool. I think there have been a number of small points that have been or could be made in defense of consensus suspects, and it's healthy to have those dialogues. I am not yet at a point though where I feel like there's a need to overhaul my view of the game.

This feels to me like a situation where emotion-driven reads should be reigned in and controlled. Someone has to be mafia, and the bar should be higher than tiny singular moments of "could be town" for someone to earn staunch defense.

[Long Con]

I feel like JJJ has been on and off the AL_sama vote several times today. He's off again now. Kind of feel like he's going to end up on AL_sama, and AL_sama will flip town, and it's how wolf JJJ would operate.

I know I'm not supposed to put suspicion on the players who aren't in PoE, or to say that a top scumread will flip town... I just had that thought when I saw AL_sama back to two votes.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

For while I'm away: my current favored landing spots for my final vote are in this pile: [AL_sama, tedxtr, TonyStarkPrime]

[Long Con]

He lands on AL_sama, and ted OR Tony are a wolf.

[Strawhenge]

I know I'm not supposed to put suspicion on the players who aren't in PoE, or to say that a top scumread will flip town... I just had that thought when I saw AL_sama back to two votes.

I'm catching up and making a catch-up post while keeping an eye on the current convo, but this caught my eye. What do you mean, you're 'not supposed to'?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I feel like JJJ has been on and off the AL_sama vote several times today. He's off again now. Kind of feel like he's going to end up on AL_sama, and AL_sama will flip town, and it's how wolf JJJ would operate.

I know I'm not supposed to put suspicion on the players who aren't in PoE, or to say that a top scumread will flip town... I just had that thought when I saw AL_sama back to two votes.

I may well end up there. Vote movement is meaningless. Only the last vote matters.

[BoKnows]

I feel like JJJ has been on and off the AL_sama vote several times today. He's off again now. Kind of feel like he's going to end up on AL_sama, and AL_sama will flip town, and it's how wolf JJJ would operate.

I know I'm not supposed to put suspicion on the players who aren't in PoE, or to say that a top scumread will flip town... I just had that thought when I saw AL_sama back to two votes.

I may well end up there. Vote movement is meaningless. Only the last vote matters.

If you have time can you quickly elaborate on TPS.

[Long Con]

I know I'm not supposed to put suspicion on the players who aren't in PoE, or to say that a top scumread will flip town... I just had that thought when I saw AL_sama back to two votes.

I'm catching up and making a catch-up post while keeping an eye on the current convo, but this caught my eye. What do you mean, you're 'not supposed to'?

Related to light lectures I have received on teamwork and following the votes of people I townread... or not messing with the PoE maybe?

I feel like JJJ has been on and off the AL_sama vote several times today. He's off again now. Kind of feel like he's going to end up on AL_sama, and AL_sama will flip town, and it's how wolf JJJ would operate.

I know I'm not supposed to put suspicion on the players who aren't in PoE, or to say that a top scumread will flip town... I just had that thought when I saw AL_sama back to two votes.

I may well end up there. Vote movement is meaningless. Only the last vote matters.

Vote movement is not meaningless. That's how you stay looking open-minded.

[BoKnows]

[VOTE: tutuu] aubergine

[TonyStarkPrime]

We’re not chopping me today

[Strawhenge]

We’re not chopping me today

Are you trying to pull the same Jedi mind trick that swayed you so easily? (I'm addressing that in my impending catch-up post.

[novaselinenever]

@Hally has replaced Tutuu. Please do not discuss replacements.

[tedxtr]

come town read me hally

[BoKnows]

[BoKnows]

Not again

[Hally]

[Hally]

sup friends

i have read absolutely nothing. someone cliffs me?

[Hally]

also lol @ this already being 60 pages

[Sloonei]

[VOTE: unvote] aubergine

[Alison]

For what it's worth to Long Con: I think the frequency with which he receives suspicion is a product of two things above all else:

1) lower activity level -- it may be lame that this happens, but it's not surprising. When more and more players adopt a POE-styled approach, players who offer less material to interpret are going to be read with less confidence by default. It's inescapable. That's why some people seem to find themselves in POE pools every game. I'm sorry that happens, but I don't know what can be done about it on the part of the hunters.

2) Long Con has a way of inviting it as a self-fulfilling prophecy and causing snowball effects. I might as well not even try, because I'll just get read as mafia -- this is an anecdotal view based on some frustrating incidents where trying did result in suspicion. But in general, trying harder is going to result in greater trust. It's also inescapable.

I don't know if I'd call myself a POE-styled player, I switch my playstyle depending on the gamestate and I've definitely had games where I've tunnelled on one scumread or hardshielded one town to the exclusion of everything else. However, I would disagree that lower activity means automatic POE. I've gotten there on BK being town off just one or two posts before. In this very game, Michelle has less posts than LC yet she is being strongly townread.

[Alison]

But yes if your response to being suspected is to give up and start lolcatting then you'll get suspected more. Not saying LC does this but it happens sometimes.

[Alison]

Yeah you're right that's actually quite a townie thing for mr sama

Why can't it be scum trying to stir up tinfoil on obvious strong town players?

[Hally]

alright i’m just gonna start reading iso’s

[Alison]

Youre fun to play mind games with.

in my head i actually thought this was an elaborate scheme to troll me because of that exact post with "you're fun to play games with"

It wasn't I just think you're lock mafia

i still think you're trolling

Now watch as Mac gets NKed and ted undermines his legacy read by claiming Mac's read on him was just a joke.

[Hally]

who’s al_sama? do i know them?

[Alison]

I do think ted had a scummy reaction to the "is Mac trolling me" thing but not because of what JJJ said, it's because of what I said earlier, he feels like he's trying to disarm Mac's read on him with a wink and a nod. It's like simultaneously trying to convince Mac "no way you could suspect me, that reason was so silly" while also setting up the foundation to discredit it after Mac dies.

I expect to have a busy afternoon today and probably won't be around much until an hour or two pre-deadline. I think it has been a good Day 0/1, and I trust everyone to keep our heads on straight. I think right now we're in that natural stage of the process where a general POE pool has developed, and we explore the various people in it to figure out 1) if one is the clear best choice for a vote and 2) if there's cause to wonder about the validity of that POE pool. I think there have been a number of small points that have been or could be made in defense of consensus suspects, and it's healthy to have those dialogues. I am not yet at a point though where I feel like there's a need to overhaul my view of the game.

This feels to me like a situation where emotion-driven reads should be reigned in and controlled. Someone has to be mafia, and the bar should be higher than tiny singular moments of "could be town" for someone to earn staunch defense.

Meanewhile is a very sensible post by Jay. I am amenable to this and I think a trustfall on all the POE suspects would be a good idea.

[Alison]

who’s al_sama? do i know them?

Nope.

[Hally]

i have determined that Mr. Mac Dougall is a VILLAGER and my reads are now his reads

[Alison]

I feel like JJJ has been on and off the AL_sama vote several times today. He's off again now. Kind of feel like he's going to end up on AL_sama, and AL_sama will flip town, and it's how wolf JJJ would operate.

I know I'm not supposed to put suspicion on the players who aren't in PoE, or to say that a top scumread will flip town... I just had that thought when I saw AL_sama back to two votes.

I disallow you from stirring up tinfoil about Jay because I think he's an IC right now. However you are welcome to scumhunt elsewhere. There are people in the POE besides Al and if Al doesn't suit your fancy you're more than welcome to case and vote some other player.

[Hally]

@MacDougall tell me who to vote

[Alison]

i have determined that Mr. Mac Dougall is a VILLAGER and my reads are now his reads

Funny you should say that, because he has determined that I am a villager and his reads are now my reads, with the caveat that I am turbo'd if too many townies in a row get exed.

[Strawhenge]

Catch-up notes:

Spoiler: show

• @AL_sama's read list and his reactions don't look good. Like @falcon45ca said, it feels very safe. 'Safe' is how I'd describe AL_sama's behavior so far in this game. Too safe, and, as in my last post about him, evasive. He even follows up falcon's take by saying he's not confident in his reads. My scumdar beeped like crazy when I read that post. Addendum: I actually disagree with @JaggedJimmyJay here, where he says AL_sama reads like a new towny tasked with figuring Jay's playstyle out. I think it's yet more 'too safe' behavior, and I don't like it one bit.

• I don't like all the 'yes but we shouldn't's in this read list from @TonyStarkPrime. I simply don't like them at all. Addendum: Hahahaha, Mac saying that these 'make him sick' made me spit my tea.

• I also dislike how TSP's switch to voting tedxtr looks in conjunction with his initial @Michelle vote. Michelle almost has a consensus townread at this point. Voting for someone like that as town usually means you've got something, even if it's a gut feeling, and you either strongly believe they should die, or you really want them to talk and defend themselves. So when KZA immediately told TSP, 'We're not chopping Michelle,', TSP immediately flopped over to his other solid yes (tedxtr). Not a fan of that at all.

• @Oddmerta a asking if he should claim because he was worried he would die feels pretty dang townish. On the whole, like I've said before, I haven't read him as anti-town at all, but this moment is pushing him into town-lean.

• I actually really like @Alison's case on @BoKnows here. Makes a lot of sense, I agree with it, and it keeps Bo in my scum-lean pile.

RAINBOW LIST
Strong Town:
Alison
JJJ
falcon
MacDougall

Town Lean:
Sloonei
Oddmerta

Town-Lean Lean:
Michelle
tedxtr
KZA
SPF
fingersplints
nanook


True Neutral:
Dom
Hally

Scum-Lean Lean:
Esooa
Long Con
JPIC

Scum Lean:
Marmot
BoKnows

Strong Scum:
AL_sama
TSP


TL;DR: TSP and AL_sama look bad. Notes in spoiler box, but quick version is they both lack conviction in different ways that each feel scummy. One of them will likely get my vote by EOD, and right now I'm leaning AL_sama out of the two.

[Hally]

i have determined that Mr. Mac Dougall is a VILLAGER and my reads are now his reads

Funny you should say that, because he has determined that I am a villager and his reads are now my reads, with the caveat that I am turbo'd if too many townies in a row get exed.

alright then you can tell me who to vote too

[tedxtr]

hello newcomb

[Hally]

hello newcomb

i stole that gif from him. it’s too good

[Hally]

ted what are your reads? who da wolves? are you a villager? should i sheep you?

[Long Con]

I feel like JJJ has been on and off the AL_sama vote several times today. He's off again now. Kind of feel like he's going to end up on AL_sama, and AL_sama will flip town, and it's how wolf JJJ would operate.

I know I'm not supposed to put suspicion on the players who aren't in PoE, or to say that a top scumread will flip town... I just had that thought when I saw AL_sama back to two votes.

I disallow you from stirring up tinfoil about Jay because I think he's an IC right now. However you are welcome to scumhunt elsewhere. There are people in the POE besides Al and if Al doesn't suit your fancy you're more than welcome to case and vote some other player.

@Strawhenge this is what I mean by "not supposed to".

I acknowledge your words, Alison, thank you.

[Long Con]

Wait, what's IC again?

[Long Con]

Implicit Civilian

[Hally]

wait mac is voting ted and therefore it’s my civic duty to also vote ted

[VOTE: ted] aubergine

what did you do this time?

[tedxtr]

ted what are your reads? who da wolves? are you a villager? should i sheep you?

i only tryhard on syndicate in later days and i've barely read - not sheepable

i am a villager

[Sloonei]

[VOTE: fingersplints] aubergine

I will not be around much today. I feel vaguely interested in pursuing a fingersplints suspicion, but I won’t have time to see it through. I’ll try to dig up a few things for discussion’s sake.

[Hally]

ted what are your reads? who da wolves? are you a villager? should i sheep you?

i only tryhard on syndicate in later days and i've barely read - not sheepable

i am a villager

[Long Con]

wait mac is voting ted and therefore it’s my civic duty to also vote ted

[VOTE: ted] aubergine

what did you do this time?

You can find much of that in the last couple of pages. Maybe search up "trolling" or "mind games".

[tedxtr]

wait mac is voting ted and therefore it’s my civic duty to also vote ted

[VOTE: ted] aubergine

what did you do this time?

probably slanking, since d1 yeets are always like that in here

[Sloonei]

ted what are your reads? who da wolves? are you a villager? should i sheep you?

i only tryhard on syndicate in later days and i've barely read - not sheepable

i am a villager

Why?

[Dom]

hi guys
lowkey forgot i signed up for this game.
uhh i don't wanna catch up on 63 pages. :3