Cindy Kate & Percy Date Night Mafia <3 [ENDGAME]

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Did sloon claim he was blocked trying to back up the desperado then backed the desperado up the following night? Or did I imagine that

[MacDougall]

Just ignore everything after d1 from guillo imo, he was obvious town then and he's still probably town, especially if he holds a mason claim

This is a bad read. The gamestate has worsened for mafia. Guillo looks like he's going chaos mode to try to disrupt town.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Did sloon claim he was blocked trying to back up the desperado then backed the desperado up the following night? Or did I imagine that

That’s my interpretation.

[MartinGG99]

I want everyone to continue telling me who they think I should shoot.

Remember that I die if I’m wrong, so my target should be the safest; the person most likely to flip mafia. Do not volunteer to be shot yourself. Do not give me your deepwolf tinfoil suspects. I want to know who everybody believes has the highest chance of being on the mafia team.

I will shoot with plenty of time left on the clock for people to adjust their reads and votes accordingly before the deadline.

@Sloonei, I think you should shoot Orange.

Even though they've given out reads without hesitancy; I do feel a slight problem with how it was conducted. It also felt rushed in order to be performative, if you look at the level of simplicity in the notes linked below.

hello everyone i actualy only fecognise some of you but i am excited to play here

i have not been able to catch upw tith everything but i have started to

so far i have these people town: Act (though am becoming cautious with him the more i read), Jay, Tangrow, Guil, Dana, Alison (lesser town read)

i am scum reading gnome mac and hawk and this stage

im about 25 pages in i think

by the way i can give reasons for any of these people want but i didnt wana go to spam the whole thread with my notes that i hav spent the day making

Linked pictures of their notes: https://ibb.co/276szJS and https://ibb.co/FBb41Wn
Mini-Fun Fact: Apparently in the notes for "556" refers to a post by or mentioning Dana. I can't find it; what I find is a post by Tangrowth (Link: https://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewt ... 72#p793072 ). But that's the only mistake I see in there.

It feels like they all have at least 2 notes on each player and that's it. They're trying (or rushing) to "read" everyone without really focusing on a single player. Collectively the notes look okay or good but honestly it's disturbing to me that they're reading the game and looking to take notes on everyone rather than pursuing whatever they find suspicious or concentrating on something. I find it incredibly hard to not see this as potentially fakeable or performative by a wolf.

They also, based on the 2nd picture of their notes, don't have any based on Sonny interactions or reads. They should know that their slot is town, and I would suspect that if they're if trying to read everyone then one of the first places I would look is where I know people would be wrong (i.e. pushing a known town slot). But I haven't seen any evidence of that.

24 hours later, their reads list don't really change all that much, even though their notes would suggest they can change reads on a single post or two:

@orangecrush since you're here, would you mind listing out some townreads/scumreads you have as of where you're at right now? Explanations are welcome but not necessary. It will just help give us some content to read you off of.

im town reading Act, Dana, Guil, Tangrowth

town lean for Jay and Martin and Sloonei

scum reading Gnome and Mac

scum lean on Hawk

can elaborate on any you wish just ask

also Seansie i am town reading you i have felt good about our interactions up to now

There's also other problems I have:

my scum read on hawk is similar to my read on gnome btw i dont think they have been able to successfully generate genuine content and are leaning on things like flavor and in hawks case picking on obvious jokes trying to shade them

as for macdougal for those that were playing the last game on mafia cafe he is giving me solvis vibes, i was able to get solvis easily because of his annoying approach to the thread which seemed to be an attempt at derailing actual town activity from taking place.

The statement on MacDougal reads as "they're probably town despite their approach so what I'm going to do is back this scum-read up with some past player I've caught who was doing something similar", especially when they make no similar outside references when talking about Gnome or Hawk in the same post. Or in any other post about Gnome or Hawk, really.

Oh, so like... probably... Hawk is actually a mafia 1-shot healer, and didn't use their shot yesterday on Alison so they still have it, and thought they might be able to clear themselves by healing LC today, but then if Hawk claimed 1-shot healer, there would have been serious questions about why he still had a shot left, so they had to claim 2-shot.

Just saw this and it actually makes a lot of sense to me in regard to my doubt about the shot discrepancy

This "Hey I agree" serves little to no purpose. If anything it looks a bit of a bad pocket attempt.

@orangecrush do you townread or do you scumread Alison?

if you look at the read klist i posted when i joined you will see that I have alison listed in my town column as a lesser town read, this is still the case. they have made some posts that i agreed with (had the same thoughts as) you can refer to my chart if you need to see which ones, the reason the town read is slightly lesser is that they made one TMI-ish psot which is also referenced in my chart if you go take a look, this one stood out to me. I have definitely been following the more recent discussions about other TMI possibilities in Alisons game so far. however my gut is that they are town just because of our thoughts being very similar and knowing im town i think the thought process for her being similar to my is encouraging

This reeks of self-consciousness. The green-colored area answers the question. The rest of the post goes beyond the original question to make themselves look good, especially the orange-colored area. Not to mention it seems like they were fence-sitting Alison a bit.

Actually self admittedly shit posting is anti town because it disrupts the thread which could be used for good solving discussion and it clogs up the thread with stuffs that we don't need. Like I've already said Gavlis did this in the last hame I played exactly the same and yes he was scum

Fake red checking someone if you are town would be hilariously anti-town so the question is Just how bad are you as town because if the answer is not very then the plausible explanation is anti-town you is not actually town this game.

Any reasonablly good town lplayer doesn't have to fake check someone to get people to vote them too they can get those votes anyway, wouldn't you agree with that?

lets kill this

Sonny's posting plummeted after a bad start to the game by scum and now his replacement is trying to get mac run up for shitposting and faking checks

I can't speak for sunny but I do stand by my reads and am confident in them despite the hawk flip and in my head it makes a lot of sense that such play would be by a scum player, especially after recent games I played. I totally understand voting me though and to be honest I've had a hard time catching up with the game

"I totally understand voting me though" and yet doesn't seem to care about evaluating the votes or positions people have taken on them. This also goes back to my concern they don't care to evaluate people who took stances for or against Sonny (their slot) in order to get a handle of the game.

[MacDougall]

Did sloon claim he was blocked trying to back up the desperado then backed the desperado up the following night? Or did I imagine that

That is what he said as I understand it.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

He has an impossible claim then

[MacDougall]

He has an impossible claim then

Which he will just retract like all his other claims.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

He has an impossible claim then

Which he will just retract like all his other claims.

I'm talking about sloon not guillo

[MacDougall]

He has an impossible claim then

Which he will just retract like all his other claims.

I'm talking about sloon not guillo

How is it impossible?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Any questions about Sloonei’s claim will be answered soon enough.

[Tangrowth]

Truly this has been a comedy, I have summer class starting tomorrow and I hurt my hand this morning so I mostly can only type with my left hand (non dominant hand) unless I want my right one to hurt as I do so. Hahaha. I'll be around when I can, thank you hosts for the holiday extension presumably either that or I can't keep track of days anymore, or both really.

[MacDougall]

Truly this has been a comedy, I have summer class starting tomorrow and I hurt my hand this morning so I mostly can only type with my left hand (non dominant hand) unless I want my right one to hurt as I do so. Hahaha. I'll be around when I can, thank you hosts for the holiday extension presumably either that or I can't keep track of days anymore, or both really.

Lol you're the worst green check ever. I hope your hand is ok.

[MacDougall]

Any questions about Sloonei’s claim will be answered soon enough.

You and Sloonei should get married.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

He has an impossible claim then

Which he will just retract like all his other claims.

I'm talking about sloon not guillo

How is it impossible?

Blocks don't refund shots yeah

[MacDougall]

He has an impossible claim then

Which he will just retract like all his other claims.

I'm talking about sloon not guillo

How is it impossible?

Blocks don't refund shots yeah

I think they generally do tbh.

[MacDougall]

At least here.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

A question has been asked that deserves a public answer.

Any submitted use of an X-shot ability consumes a shot regardless of the outcome.

He has an impossible claim then

Which he will just retract like all his other claims.

I'm talking about sloon not guillo

How is it impossible?

Blocks don't refund shots yeah

I think they generally do tbh.

I disagree

[MartinGG99]

He has an impossible claim then

Which he will just retract like all his other claims.

I'm talking about sloon not guillo

How is it impossible?

Blocks don't refund shots yeah

I think they generally do tbh.

1 hours and 1/2 ago:

A question has been asked that deserves a public answer.

Any submitted use of an X-shot ability consumes a shot regardless of the outcome.

:upside-down-smile-face:

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

That would've been a better burn if I'd formatted it correctly, rip

[MacDougall]

Martin got me for you bro its ok.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Thank God for Martin, appreciate the assist buddy!

[MacDougall]

So I guess this can only mean one thing.

Sloonei is Guillo's mason.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Lololol

[Guillotine]

Fake claiming for me is NAI, i think you have to look beyond the fake claim itself to see if it comes from scum or town.

Ive fake claimed as scum, heck, it’s where i cook up the best FPS but always to destroy town. My aim as scum is to kill as many townies as possible with the fake claims.
In Spiderverse it was to bait claims out or breadcrumbs that Macdougall could pick up and deduce for the soup kill, because im a dumbass when it comes to detecting softs.

In Everyone’s JOATED.

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... e-s-JOATED

I Fake claim to kill a total of three townies. I Goaded one to shoot the fabricated gun i gave her, i faked a lie detector to get the masonizer claim yeeted and i bsited the suicide bomb to kill me and himself after i claimed i was a Dr Boom, a bomb that kills two townies on my wagon. That was a lot of fun, very proud of that game even if we lost
——————————————————————————————

I have fake claimed as town too. But i never put in jeopardy my faction.

I did it here, i claimed PGO as well, i had correctly scum read 4/5 wolves, when i retracted my claim scum discredited me by pushing the agenda of yeeting all liars to eliminate me. Scum continued to discredit my reads even after dead, calling me a wild card, a loose cannon, so town wouldnt bother to consider my reads. If they had sheeped me, we would have won.

https://forum.throneoflies.com/t/darlin ... -win/87703


In this other game i claimed my role but i fake claimed that i could self target (another form of PGO).

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12734178

I was a special kind vigilante and i correctly targeted 3/4 anti town parties during the night which got me that award.

So yah, i fakeclaim as either alignment for sure but the difference is that i dont put in jeopardy town when im town.

[MacDougall]

I object your honour!

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Anyway, Owner interactions.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

@orangecrush did you have views of the game and reads on players from whatever you were able to follow from the period before you officially subbed in and received a role card?

[Allcrab]

If sloonei is faking and my wolf read there is correct I will laugh forever.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I believe he has a shot

I do not believe he backed up belzy's shot

[Seanzie]

Question for Seanzie who believed at the time that i cant be trusted for my PGO claim.

What is the incentive for scum to claim it? Instead of just keeping it quiet, bait as many visits as he can during the night and kill them all. I love killing as either alignment, i never choose not to kill to get towncred. There is no incentive for me to save town’s lives by claiming PGO when i can just bait them and kill them.

Think about that hard.

First off, D1 you claimed any visitors who visit you die. The scum incentive here is to avoid investigation roles or disruptive roles from town. This claim was a lie though.

D2 you retracted that claim (only because Kito visited you and he didn't die) and said only people who visit you with NKs die. The scum incentive here is that if people believe your claim, they don't wonder why you haven't been NK'd as the game goes on. This works especially well if you plan to bus to get towncred, since having too much towncred as scum runs into issues later in the game.

If you were worried more about a town vigilante than the NK, as you seem to suggest here, well... which alignment worries more about town vigilantes than NKs?

[Seanzie]

[VOTE: Guillotine] aubergine

[Seanzie]

If Sloonei truly does have a shot, I'd still go with OC, but Guillo definitely deserves some love today.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

@Seanzie I'm trying to find the Sonny post you took issue with on Day 2 when you felt he was trying to distract you/town away from Owner suspicion. Do you recall which post that way?

[Seanzie]

@Seanzie I'm trying to find the Sonny post you took issue with on Day 2 when you felt he was trying to distract you/town away from Owner suspicion. Do you recall which post that way?

It wasn't a specific post, it was more of a feeling I got. There were two things I felt he was trying to distract me with, I can try to find the relevant posts that gave me that vibe. Gimme a second...

[Seanzie]

@JaggedJimmyJay

I am not sure what to make of you seanzie.

Well, I'm drunk af right now, so you should believe every word I say, and vote Owner.

Can we still fight at some point if you are town?

Yeah, I like to fight. Sometimes about game related things.

While you're here, do you have a read on Kito?

I think it was pretty clear from my earlier spat with him that I am suspicious of his buddying. GTH? Probably town. But I am garbage at reading Kito. Would drink a beer with, but feel out before committing to a second date, ya'know?

Cool, I'll get there than.

This interaction kind of piqued my interest. In particular, "Cool, I'll get there than." strikes me as a weird way to end that exchange if he is asking me about Kito to help sort me and Kito. It seems like he didn't care what my answer was one way or the other, especially since it is unclear where I was at with Kito (GTH head town, with strong reservations is not somewhere someone strives to get when sorting people).

Then he followed up pretty quickly with this:

Okay, end of Page 9. Guillo pointed out possible wolves in Nutella/Alison. Guillo also went from simply bear posting to regular posting in a way I kind of like (he wanted to do a gimmick, but then it feels like he just got excited as town and dropped the gimmick). Clearly Nutella was a hit, and I agree about Alison thus far. Mac also kind of pushed in that direction, and Nutella seems to be trying to butter Mac up afterwards (defended Mac at some point, and talked about how good Mac was in spiderverse, blah blah blah), so I am giving Mac a few town points here. Guillo probably also good, but seems to be getting less reactions from Nutella and others. I'd like to see Alison's flip to help sort these two.

What would Alison's flip mean for Guillo and Mac?

Which like... he had been responding to a lot of things much newer than that post from me. Maybe he was still catching up, but in the moment, it sure felt weird that the harder I pressed the thread for Owner, the more it felt that Sonny wanted to talk to me about other people.

I was a little inebriated when this whole conversation happened, so take my vibes with a grain of salt, but to me, Sonny felt uncomfortable about me pushing Owner (even as he voted her, and made a bit of a push on her as well... that didn't last long IIRC). It was the same sort of uncomfortable vibe I felt the one game I've played with Wolf!Sonny when I shared a mech plan in thread that was guaranteed to out 1-2 wolves. It was only a vibe though.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Interactions of Owner and Sonny / orangecrush

From Owner

Spoiler: show

Omg! It's been so long Owner!! Hai.

It's a Sonny!!!! I was totes excited to see that you were signed up to play. Is lomo here yet? Also, Kito too...would be great to see his thoughts

It was years ago, but some people know of it. I just assumed I must have told you about it or brought it up in another game.

Nope. On the rare occasion I encounter that (that is, Glorfindel) I prefer to respect a player's wishes anyway.

How about this instead: any initial impressions?

Tangy is talkative. That's normal for her from what I remember.

Nutella's first post pinged me a little...not sure if I have really heard upgaymers? in a sentence before..it could be nai, it's just a bit out there for me which...on this first date I expect there is more not less of it to come (almost spelled that wrong) I think I need to get out more

Mac could be town if I remember his meta right. If memory serves, he's like more gunho as town...idk, I think that's right

You (JJJ) could be anything..light town for now

I need to read more posts though from the others.

I need to see more of Sonny's posts.

My vote on Sloonei is an old PerC tell where when scum don't know what to say on day 1 they make a questionnaire. I think the context of it was how it was determined whether it was scummy or nai, but it has been awhile.

It was years ago, but some people know of it. I just assumed I must have told you about it or brought it up in another game.

Nope. On the rare occasion I encounter that (that is, Glorfindel) I prefer to respect a player's wishes anyway.

How about this instead: any initial impressions?

Tangy is talkative. That's normal for her from what I remember.

Nutella's first post pinged me a little...not sure if I have really heard upgaymers? in a sentence before..it could be nai, it's just a bit out there for me which...on this first date I expect there is more not less of it to come (almost spelled that wrong) I think I need to get out more

Mac could be town if I remember his meta right. If memory serves, he's like more gunho as town...idk, I think that's right

You (JJJ) could be anything..light town for now

I need to read more posts though from the others.

I need to see more of Sonny's posts.

My vote on Sloonei is an old PerC tell where when scum don't know what to say on day 1 they make a questionnaire. I think the context of it was how it was determined whether it was scummy or nai, but it has been awhile.

Are you caught up then? Or is this just the first few pages?

If you are caught up, would love your takes on the other Percy players who have posted.

I'm still responding to page 1 of 15, not there yet. I'm really curious about why a wagon is on Act.

There was another glorfindel?

Context?

Mafia player who was so pure in the soul that he would not lie.

Ah, then yes.

Owner was so very sweet and innocent when she started out, it was fated to end badly, she was hard bussed in her first (I think) game. Despite my memory condition somethings stick because of how impactful they were. She's now capable of unspeakable diabolical acts. Growth, amirite?

me sweet lol, in real life yes...in mafia I feel that's questionable. Your asylum game where cue5c, kaleidoscope and Pucca swept the game, and the whole time is everyone in the game is hoping the the rainbow colored, posting in voices cue5c is not scum here. It was like my first or second time randing VT. It was so bad. I didn't know what to do. And then I discovered this song...

[VIDEO SNIPPED]

Oooh, Nook isn't self voting anymore.

Owner, please just catch up. All this talk about not being caught up is shady.

I'm like not caught up most games. I don't get why people keep calling it that way when it happens like every game. It's like no one remembers this...though we haven't really played together lately so I guess that's it.

smh

@Owner of a Lonely Heart you're here!

Did you target JJJ?

I sent a fruit. It doesn't do much. The person I sent it to hasn't brought it up yet.

Question dodged. Noted.

Just reviewed day end votes and you never posted your Made vote in thread, why not?

I didn't remember where the vote button was, so I just made the post that JJJ quoted

From Owner's side this is a bunch of nothing. I truly have nothing to say. Sonnycrush looks neither better nor worse.

~~~

From Sonny

Note that orangecrush joined the game on Day 3 after Owner had already been eliminated.

Spoiler: show

Not fully caught up but so far I have 6 Percy's who haven't even posted yet =/ sad.

Do you have any loose impressions of the Percys that have posted?

Act and Guillotine (who I don't think I actually know) are looking townie to me.
Kito is in standard slank mode which is fine and meh.
Hawk didn't give much when she was here so wait and see.
Gnome is Gnome, my default is to not read/sheep others on her until there is evidence of something or I'll end up tunneling nothing.

I expect Belzy, Owner and Seanzie at the least to post enough to give reads and am sad they're not here yet.

Tbh I expected more.

Nice to meet you, Sonny! Just realized I didn't say hi. To anyone I didn't say hi to directly, hi!

Hi ya!

nutella is scum. Just getting it out of the way now.

What's their tell? You can tell me. I don't bite...much.

Owner brain: *Owner stop saying all these questionable things on your first date*

Also Owner brain: *I have a small mouth though...it really wouldn't be much*

Is Tangy town? She was the only one here and already calls someone scum without input.

Omg! It's been so long Owner!! Hai.

Omg! It's been so long Owner!! Hai.

It's a Sonny!!!! I was totes excited to see that you were signed up to play. Is lomo here yet? Also, Kito too...would be great to see his thoughts

Kito should be sleeping but has been active, he did discover the he can vote without posting so that's lol

So far Bunny, Belzy, LoMo, Sean and Allcrab haven't posted.

First date icebreaker question for everyone: what’s your favorite trip you’ve ever been on?

[VOTE: Sloonei] aubergine Day 1 questionnaires are sus

--
though the question seems harmless...hmmm

idk...

There are too many good trips to pick from...final answer

Lol, it's a nothing question tho. I mean you do you, just seems meh.

Hi @Owner of a Lonely Heart! Are you mafia

On one hand, I don't have truth meta anymore. On the other hand, I feel this is a cheap sentiment coming from the player I expect you to be. I much rather players learn to read my words than asking for a basic yes or no answer.

Say it! SAY IT!





Fine.

There was another glorfindel?

Context?

Mafia player who was so pure in the soul that he would not lie.

Ah, then yes.

Owner was so very sweet and innocent when she started out, it was fated to end badly, she was hard bussed in her first (I think) game. Despite my memory condition somethings stick because of how impactful they were. She's now capable of unspeakable diabolical acts. Growth, amirite?

I'm still responding to page 1 of 15, not there yet. I'm really curious about why a wagon is on Act.

I can see why those who don't know Act are suspect, her first question really is redundant, but I think it's largely around people not knowing her. Her question to Dana was what I was thinking when I saw the nervous post and I think it's valid to expect those who don't know Gnome to be suspect of her. Anyway, catch up.

I thought most Syndicate players had Nutella as townie, no? Why is Jay reading them as town wrong? Did I miss something here?

Also, when did Jay call Owner town, she only just started playing?

@Sonny, did you give a read on Owner? If not, what do you think of her?

Felt like she was here for 2 minutes, posted next to nothing of value, didn't read everything, than left. I was, err, underwhelmed. I expect left-of-centre from her, not meh.

not sure, how I feel about all the lomo votes...hmm...I'm not caught up. But it seems like I keep seeing PerC wagons as if we are unwelcomed on someone's home turf...adk

Where are you up to?

Do you have any reads?

[VOTE: Owner] aubergine

Let's see how this feels.

Tell me things, Owner.

(also, psst, Nutella said "Spicy", check it out!)

Oooh, Nook isn't self voting anymore.

Owner, please just catch up. All this talk about not being caught up is shady.

What do you think about LoMo? He's got a rep of being LHF at mafia cafe, do you think that is being carried over to this site? Or do you still think it is a biased syndicate reason?
Cause... i dont think the syndicate would be hosting a cross over mafia game event with PerC if they didnt welcome foreigners. Dont you think?

Back in the day, lomo was who I would sometimes aspire to be in terms of town players. He had these incredible reads and scum fear killed him regularly at some point. But his play nowadays isn't quite what I remember of it. I'll have to read his posts. I don't know. Just coming into this site, I see the vote count more frequently than I usually see a vote count on PerC/MafiaCafe. So I'm calling it out. I'm like hey I don't know how long wagons have been there, but anything above 3 votes generally makes me suspicious of the wagon itself.

Keep reading, but please do remember
... there are 24 players, 3 votes is a blip.

Sonny sorry if you've already weighed in on this but what are your current takes on LoMo and Owner?

LoMo's feels okay to me, I thought his call out on Nutella and the 'could unvote' thing was good. I'm still waiting to see town!Owner, I don't care about the wording stuff, that's Owner being Owner, she just feels 'not here'.

[READS LIST SNIP]

Owner of a Lonely Heart: Owner calls her scum for a weird word, she seems to push owner forward although votes LoMo, keeps her name out there though - Probably town

[READS LIST SNIP]

@Owner of a Lonely Heart you're here!

Did you target JJJ?

I sent a fruit. It doesn't do much. The person I sent it to hasn't brought it up yet.

Question dodged. Noted.

Just reviewed day end votes and you never posted your Made vote in thread, why not?

Well, unless I'm not following then maybe I'm drunk too

who's maf

I'm bothered by Belzy's lack of well, Belzy, and Owner just pinged me. Still don't know what Bunny is doing.

Hawks vote timing was poor too, but I'm not sold on Made.

Have only been skimming the thread at work so am behind, getting there.

[VOTE: Owner] aubergine

[VOTE: Owner] aubergine

rly tho

If you're a flower vendor, why not say who you visited? Or at least say "no it wasn't Jay"?

She dodged Sean's question, even if it is a fake trap, it's a poor reaction.

Owner is still a prime suspect. I have no reason off-hand to change that view.

I don't really know what to make of her, I think the most suspect thing she's done is shade various people without really... seeming like solving or anything? I need to see how she's trying to contribute to that, you know. At least, that's what I think offhand.

When is shading people town?

OoO! Fun! Sonny, you also tried to distract me with Kito. I like this!

Distract you from what?

Owner.

I'm catching up on today's posts.

Even if you were reaction testing her, her reaction pinged me, so carry on.

what is it that he's trying to distract you from?

Minimally owner. I could have possibly been onto more, but the only two people I will express any sort of confident read out of are Owner (very strong read), and Sonny (much much weaker but still worth something read).

Oh? What is your read on me?

I mean if you have already shared, I'll get there, but we're both here right now.

Up until recently? Town, but recently? well, all I'll say is that everyone should bookmark Sonny's reactions to me tonight for when Owner flips scum. No one will do it, and I will die tonight, but y'all SHOULD do it.

im a little confused, is sonny fighting your read on owner? what are these reactions that you mention that make sonny look bad if owner is a wolf?

He wasn't fighting me, but he tried to distract the thread. Owner is outed, and scum is super more aware of that than town (and distracted town might not be aware), and so as I talked more about Owner, if you look at Sonny's post towards me, he wanted to talk about anyone but owner.

I know right now it seems insignificant, and I don't need you to believe me today, but just remember that it happened when we flip owner and I flip in the night.

If Owner flips scum I promise to look at myself.

Oh hey, Bunny.

Can you give your read on Owner?

Eh, finally get to a post from Owner and I need to sleep. So close.

@Owner of a Lonely Heart can you give me your read on me, please?

Oh yay, I caught up to my own posts finally and am reminded why I had Owner as scummy. I don't know if I'm misremembering, but I feel as though there's been a game where she fake claimed vendor as scum. Would have to search tho.



I'm at Owner, Belzy, Bunny and fine to see where the Hawk thing goes.

20+ pages behind and a run away wagon on Owner, so... things happened? X D

Just as a summary, I truly was in the golden zone of drunkeness last night. I know myself, I am an artist-type and I get into that sort of zone sometimes where I have clarity and do some of my best work like that. I know when I am being a dumbass and when I am hot shit, and while I am definitely not going to promise that everything I said last night was completely correct, I was hot shit.

Owner - wolf. 10/10 dentists agree that you should vote her.

Sonny - not outed, but definitely deserves a strong look.
JJJ - not outed, but definitely deserves a strong look.
Mac - probably town.
Dana - probably town, but everyone already knew that.

Unfortunately, those were the only people I majorly interacted with, so I only split the game half open, rather than wide open.

Would you be able to articulate why you are so confident about Owner?
Some detailed thoughts on Sonny would be cool too.

I'd rather not, but I'll bet my life on an Owner scum flip.

Sonny looked very strongly like he wanted to distract me and others from my push on Owner last night. Sonny also felt uncomfortable in my interactions with him. It is hard to articulate exactly what it was that I was feeling with regards to him, but Sonny doesn't like wolfing, and I got strongly uncomfortable vibes from Sonny that reminded me of Wolf!Sonny (I've only seen him wolf once, so take this for what you will). So, super strong wolf!Sonny vibes, plus his actions having scum motive (attemping to move the thread away from an outed partner).

Uncomfortable? I mean you do you but I don't know why people assign these kind of 'emotions' or whatever to me, happens a lot. If Owner is scum, yay, I don't have a hard time believing she is from the way she refused to answer your question about her role and the lack of well, anything. I was catching up on 30 pages while you were posting so was dipping back and forth between old and new posts, I wasn't attempting to 'distract'.

Lol wait, Owner is voting Tang after the Belzy shot?



[VOTE: Owner] aubergine

@Sonny can you expand on how you progressed from having Owner as town in your nutella interactions post, to voting her in your next couple of posts (admittedly a few hours later) because she pinged you?

The interaction looked okay in my overnight review and I hadn't read anything when I posted it. As I was catching up she had done nothing and her claim tweaked me. There's nothing wrong with a flower vendor claim but I have a feeling she's done it before as a fake claim, the biggest thing that made me side eye is there's no reason not to be clear on yes or no I did/did not target Jay, it was a simple question she couldn't answer which looked to me like she wasn't sure what the "correct" answer was. Pretty sure I explained at the time tho.

I'm about 10 pages behind and not going to catch up tonight as my bf is here, if I've missed questions I'll catch them tomorrow.

@Sonny can you expand on how you progressed from having Owner as town in your nutella interactions post, to voting her in your next couple of posts (admittedly a few hours later) because she pinged you?

The interaction looked okay in my overnight review and I hadn't read anything when I posted it. As I was catching up she had done nothing and her claim tweaked me. There's nothing wrong with a flower vendor claim but I have a feeling she's done it before as a fake claim, the biggest thing that made me side eye is there's no reason not to be clear on yes or no I did/did not target Jay, it was a simple question she couldn't answer which looked to me like she wasn't sure what the "correct" answer was. Pretty sure I explained at the time tho.

I'm about 10 pages behind and not going to catch up tonight as my bf is here, if I've missed questions I'll catch them tomorrow.

I guess I'm surprised that you put owner in the same tier as e.g. nanook in that reads list and yet rescinded so easily
noted

The review was of Nutella posts only like literally her ISO posts, there's been a lot more since then including the D1 wagon review I did where Owner's vote was a ? against her. Tbf there's been 1 thing I'd been expecting to see from Owner that has never come and it's a big long reads lists with weird reads that makes you squint your eyes but shows me she's reading things and considering. I've only seen her in one game recently and I was spectating, but a post just like that was what gave me enough to get a town read on her. She hasn't even come close to that imo. Maybe her role is legit, but I still think it's non-town.

This one's going to be colorful.

Orange - These are predominantly interactions or Sonny mentions of Owner that don't orient in a clear direction as a read. They're neutral chatter, questions, and prods of others about Owner. Sonny was pretty conscious of Owner in this ISO and at least put the posts in the thread to suggest some kind of solving process. None of this inspires me though -- it's softball.

Green - These are more concretely accusations by Sonny of Owner. The first half of these greens comes from Day 1 including a vote for Owner. I cannot be certain of the timeline, but I do believe nutella had already accumulated some sort of wagon at this point. Sonny's vote ended on nutella. These moments are exactly okay. Sonny's language tends to be relaxed, and it is difficult derive any feeling from this material. It can be interpreted as anything with respect to a teammate relationship.

Cyan - This is a potentially important marker. Sonny's initial impression of Owner on Day 2 was that she was not nutella's teammate. We'll see that this read was paper thin and didn't last, visible in the green and red blurbs following this moment. The progression is an awkward one to my eye, and it's something that hawk took note of as well. I'll say more in the red bit.

Yellow - This is actually Seanzie writing, not Sonny. The point Seanzie made about Sonny distracting from Owner could be a valuable one; we'll allow him to sort that as he just said he'd try to do and go from there.*

*Addendum, he just expanded as I compiled this. I am inclined to take the grain of salt on this one at least with respect to the literal posts that Seanzie brought up and the words Sonny used in them -- that doesn't strike me as deliberate distraction. I do however think that there could be validity to Seanzie's questions about timing and how much attention Sonny paid to Seanzie's older posts relative to other people's newer posts. It's something to consider for whatever it's worth.

Red - These are things I conclusively don't like. The first one has the appearance of TMI meant to be used against me if/when Owner flips mafia. The following three refer back to the awkward progression Sonny had in his read of Owner on Day 2. He opened with that cyan town judgment, which on its own power is fine. It's okay to be wrong. But that read seemed to evaporate the moment the state of the thread forced it to evaporate with zero protest, and it's a bit hard for me to take seriously. Sonny seems forced to provide these specific notions about what makes Owner validly suspicious in spite of his prior town take, and they don't look terribly authentic to me. I don't think it's inherently a requirement for Owner to declare that she targeted me before she is ready in the eyes of someone who doesn't really know what she's up to yet -- treating that as a smoking gun is too much. Likewise in the last post, "Owner hasn't provided a big weird reads list" is too specific and looks like a forced meta read to me in a game environment where defending Owner in any capacity was no longer viable for her teammates.

~~~

Conclusion

The most important takeaway here is that I feel no more inclined to view Sonnycrush as town than I did before I began putting this post together. There are some isolated moments of heat from Sonny upon Owner, but they are scattered, low-intensity, and I don't know that they follow a genuine progression. I have some grievances here as well that are more concretely negative for Sonny, though I grant that some conjecture was required on my part to get there.

Overall I would still call orangecrush a suspect to be on this mafia team.

[MacDougall]

Interactions between Jay and Nutella

nutella seems town

vote Jay trollface.gif

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Interactions between Jay and Nutella

nutella seems town

vote Jay trollface.gif

[Guillotine]

@Guillotine how do you feel about Allcrab?

I'd shoot there to clear doubts about town having two watchers, the shot i would perform on Martin to clear the hypothesis that we have two town healers, because i dont believe that.

[Guillotine]

Omg your claims are meaningless at this point because you’ve just made so many of them. At this rate, I wouldn’t be surprised if you were scum and you and a scum buddy both claimed masons

Town do fakeclaim. The difference between how we fakevlaim and how dcum fake claims is simple.

Our fake claims dont put town in jeopardy.

1) Pgo that kills killers only. Meaning i was telling town that they can check on me, while i was WIFOMing scum into not targeting me for a kill.

2) The fake redcheck was for info (which i retracted it).

And Seanzie, if you suspect me for fake claiming, Do you suspect Alison as well? How about Mac?
About Made’s fake claim to yeet Michelle on Spiderverse?

A claim is only so good as it is believable. If you make a new claim every other minute, and no one believes it, what purpose is it serving?

[VOTE: Act] aubergine

This is a discredit attempt. Ive only fake claimed two rolrs in the game. One on day 1 and another one today. You are making it sound like i did it everyday.

Next!

You fake claimed a red check on Jay. Or did I make that up?

That is the second claim and i retracted it. So?

My point is that you’re making a lot of claims. Two have been retracted. Who knows whether this third one is legit? When you make lots of claims (and I feel like three is a lot), it’s hard to take any of them seriously and the more you claim and retract, the less believable they are.

This claim is legit because the other mason can confirm it obviously. Duh duh duuuuh.

[Guillotine]

[VOTE: Guillotine] aubergine

You are outing, you more than anyone know that this is not scum me. So remove your very opportunistic vote RIGHT NOW MAC!

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Interactions of Owner and Made

From Owner

Spoiler: show

vote made?

Made is kind of in poe. I don't remember them, but there's others I don't remember.

@Owner of a Lonely Heart what made you make made when you could have made nutella?

At that point, I was treating the upgaymers as similar to Sloonei saying the word spicy, as it being a cultural thing. I didn't have any reason to push them. Nutella had talked more than made I think. Nutella had presence and Made didn't, so made was also kind of just in POE.

Basically nada. If I want to be generous I might say that Owner literally did forget Made existed until he became a wagon because she had no reason to think about Made. I am not inclined to be quite that charitable.

~~~

From Made

Spoiler: show

Two worst votes of Day 1 belong to Act and bad bunny. Belzy's is bad too; at least it came earlier. Owner's is the worst on Made.

an inquisitive man, Made began to form his thoughts into a coherent question

I think I saw your explanation on Owner's vote. what was weird with Act and Bad Bunny's votes?

Made figured it was time to make his move. Self doubt crept over him like a cold river in abandoned gold mine boom town. "but what if I'm rejected?". He always had difficulty dealing with rejection. Almost being jected out of the thread had done nothing but increase his anxiety. But he knew that the only way love can find a way, is if you make a way for it.

Are we really not ez voting Owner here?? that last minute vote swap was scummy as shit, there's no way there wasn't a save attempt here. It also would explain the rush of votes on me instead of owner who at least had votes early in the day. Can't really speak on thread discussion around him and momentum there tho. was Owner defended by anyone at the time? when I left thread I had no votes, came back and I was even with nutella. I don't think I was even talked about before that point??? Somethings not right here.
Meanwhile, Owner's votes didn't seem to move much. Were owner voters locked in at that point or did there votes get replaced by people who switched? that could be a good place to look for info on the two wagons

wait wait wait wait wait, is there a reason we're not looking at Tangle???

No reason at all. What do you think of Tangle?

I mean she lead the counter wagon against me when owner almost took off. I'm not very well read thread wise, but like that's never townie, right?

The second post in there is the most valuable one for assessing Made. His conclusions are the right ones, albeit a bit self-serving. If nothing else though, this post is exactly where a town Made should be, so a mafia Made would have to identify that and occupy that brain convincingly. I think it's a decent moment.

~~~

Conclusion

There's far too little here for me to remove Made from my POE pool. I would however call a small tick in the positive direction for him. Perhaps he moves to the outer ring of the POE pool. He's still in the pile though.

[Guillotine]

@Gavial It's a honor to be compared with you. The way these guys discredit your play, a dead townie, who felt by a malicious trap by scum.
I cant wait for another game where we can play together and shit the haters mouths.

[Guillotine]

And shut the haters mouth. Not shit lol

[MacDougall]

@Gavial It's a honor to be compared with you. The way these guys discredit your play, a dead townie, who felt by a malicious trap by scum.
I cant wait for another game where we can play together and shit the haters mouths.

shit the mouth

[MacDougall]

[VOTE: Guillotine] aubergine

You are outing, you more than anyone know that this is not scum me. So remove your very opportunistic vote RIGHT NOW MAC!

shit the mouth

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Guillotine is correct that we ought not disparage people’s play. It serves no good.

[Guillotine]

Just ignore everything after d1 from guillo imo, he was obvious town then and he's still probably town, especially if he holds a mason claim

This is a bad read. The gamestate has worsened for mafia. Guillo looks like he's going chaos mode to try to disrupt town.

No, if it feels chaotic, it must be for scum, nothing worse that dropping the mason bomb in the middle of nowhere. I love it

[MacDougall]

Guillotine is correct that we ought not disparage people’s play. It serves no good.

I agree kofm

[Guillotine]

Every time someone talks about Galvian the way they do, is like if they were talking about me that way, those comments go beyond the game, they feel personal, like bullying, it's not part of the game, it shouldnt be.

Galvian rather play a 100 games with you than those people. Bottom of my heart.