Cindy Kate & Percy Date Night Mafia <3 [ENDGAME]

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Let's just vote Made to be honest.

Like what even is the mafia team if Made is town? Is it Mac + Guillo? Is it [Mac/Guillo] + Allcrab who ripped off LoMo's watcher result and TMI'd bunny and has been skating by ever since? It is one of those + Martin who has fooled me?

I am not inspired by any of these possibilities. A mafia team with Made in it makes the most sense regardless of anyone else's alignment.

what points do you have in favor of Mac or Guilo or Allcrab or Lomo that makes them mutually incompatible? Is it Jay's analysis. The issue is if there's 2 scum left it's either those or you're getting got sis.

What's your read on Alison herself?

[MacDougall]

Made is the most likely to be eliminated today, so it's not something I am inclined to talk about much on its own yet. I'm looking for relationships and other suspects tangential to him.

I remember that I said something like, I think Made is a save, and Mac came in and said I agree.

I don't remember many other interactions they've had but the one I remember seems teammate compatible. I trust you'll do your due diligence on all their interactions anyway.

Did I say that? That sounds more like something Guillo would say.

[MacDougall]

I wish someone had have cop checked me by now.

My partner's last night legacy was that you are town along with Alison and J, i disagreed on you being town, but now im not sure.

Mac, level with me. Would scum!you kill Seanzie right after he sus you?

Yes I love to make pro Mac night kills because they're always wifom to read into.

[MartinGG99]

I agree he has that comfortable-in-thread impulsiveness that is usually associated with town, but idk if you've ever been town when Guillo's been wolf, but he can fake that. He has compared himself to Gavial a few times, and I think that is actually a good comparison, they both are very good at bringing that impulsive posting style into their wolf games.

I'm not fully convinced he is a wolf, but I think the reasons he is being townread by most are exactly what you described, and having been on the losing side of wolf!Guillo multiple times, I don't think it is as AI as many people do. Take away his impulsive posting style, and what do you get?

Honestly removing "impulsive" from the equation and you can't really see much. I mean, to read him without impulsiveness in mind is kinda like not trying to read him at all fmpov.

The only evaluation at that point is the expectation that he has been hunting in reasonable faith. And whether he has been negatively affected during the night. I can't really think of anything else.

Can you elaborate on this? I'm not sure what you're saying here.

I'm not sure if I can elaborate effectively. I'm just pulling this straight from my head.

I mean. It's his style. I don't know how people read things without considering style, and whether doing so would be accurate.

If he's town I would have to take in that they're impulsive. If they're wolf I would have to take in fake impulsivity. In determining either I would have to consider the impulsivity and how that might influence a !town him unless I'm assuming he's a wolf.

this is a weird take from Martin. I feel like if he's scum, being wishy washing, and then going on at length as to the flavor of the wishwash is the best way to add volume without substances on a slot that might need a mislynch later. Ironically, it's overly careful. I also don't think I would ever compare Gav's game to Gulio's game generally. they're just not similar like that.

A few things:

--I think it's inherently going to look "weird" because of this.

--Wishy Washy? What in the world does that even mean in Forum Mafia?

--This isn't directly a take on Gulio. This is a take on what Seanzie asked me in regards to *how* one should read Gulio (shown in red glow); in no way is this going to lead directly to a deletion. I was arguing that he was suggesting to me to ignore Gulio's impulsiveness, and that is problematic because both wolf and town Gulio would use that and thus it would have to be considered even if it were NAI.

--What am I being very careful or overly careful about? What should I be concerned about that's supposedly making me careful here?

weird/sus, same thing, but avoiding hard stances is pro scum. What is your read on Gulio right now?

I think you find it heavily implied in my first post of this day phase. Even before that, at EoD4 yesterday I ascribed myself to agreeing with most of JJJ's post.

Besides, I believe many (but not all) other people didn't take a hard stance of "Oh, Gulio's town" or "Oh, Gulio's Poisoner". Most just expressed a viability that he could be non-town.

[MartinGG99]

You will*

[MacDougall]

@TonyStarkPrime replacing into a clear. Fun times for you!

[Allcrab]

@Allcrab remind me what your targets are?

n1 was jay
n2 was tangrowth
n3 was you
n4 was mac

[MacDougall]

Honestly removing "impulsive" from the equation and you can't really see much. I mean, to read him without impulsiveness in mind is kinda like not trying to read him at all fmpov.

The only evaluation at that point is the expectation that he has been hunting in reasonable faith. And whether he has been negatively affected during the night. I can't really think of anything else.

Can you elaborate on this? I'm not sure what you're saying here.

I'm not sure if I can elaborate effectively. I'm just pulling this straight from my head.

I mean. It's his style. I don't know how people read things without considering style, and whether doing so would be accurate.

If he's town I would have to take in that they're impulsive. If they're wolf I would have to take in fake impulsivity. In determining either I would have to consider the impulsivity and how that might influence a !town him unless I'm assuming he's a wolf.

this is a weird take from Martin. I feel like if he's scum, being wishy washing, and then going on at length as to the flavor of the wishwash is the best way to add volume without substances on a slot that might need a mislynch later. Ironically, it's overly careful. I also don't think I would ever compare Gav's game to Gulio's game generally. they're just not similar like that.

A few things:

--I think it's inherently going to look "weird" because of this.

--Wishy Washy? What in the world does that even mean in Forum Mafia?

--This isn't directly a take on Gulio. This is a take on what Seanzie asked me in regards to *how* one should read Gulio (shown in red glow); in no way is this going to lead directly to a deletion. I was arguing that he was suggesting to me to ignore Gulio's impulsiveness, and that is problematic because both wolf and town Gulio would use that and thus it would have to be considered even if it were NAI.

--What am I being very careful or overly careful about? What should I be concerned about that's supposedly making me careful here?

weird/sus, same thing, but avoiding hard stances is pro scum. What is your read on Gulio right now?

I think you find it heavily implied in my first post of this day phase. Even before that, at EoD4 yesterday I ascribed myself to agreeing with most of JJJ's post.

Besides, I believe many (but not all) other people didn't take a hard stance of "Oh, Gulio's town" or "Oh, Gulio's Poisoner". Most just expressed a viability that he could be non-town.

Nice word soup.

[Alison]

@JaggedJimmyJay If nutella and Owner are both mafia then Made is a save.

@JaggedJimmyJay If nutella and Owner are both mafia then Made is a save.

are you saying that the mafia saved made by pushing both nutella and owner?

that would probably require a lot of mafia lol

@JaggedJimmyJay If nutella and Owner are both mafia then Made is a save.

What is a "save" in this sense?

I believe Made is a villager who was run up in order to protect nutella and Owner.

oh that makes more sense

[Made]

Let's just vote Made to be honest.

Like what even is the mafia team if Made is town? Is it Mac + Guillo? Is it [Mac/Guillo] + Allcrab who ripped off LoMo's watcher result and TMI'd bunny and has been skating by ever since? It is one of those + Martin who has fooled me?

I am not inspired by any of these possibilities. A mafia team with Made in it makes the most sense regardless of anyone else's alignment.

what points do you have in favor of Mac or Guilo or Allcrab or Lomo that makes them mutually incompatible? Is it Jay's analysis. The issue is if there's 2 scum left it's either those or you're getting got sis.

What's your read on Alison herself?

Town on tone, she's dunking on me in wreckless way i don't think i've ever seen her do as scum, but i have seen her do it town

[Alison]

@Allcrab remind me what your targets are?

n1 was jay
n2 was tangrowth
n3 was you
n4 was mac

I know your result on Jay and you whiffed on Mac, what was the result on Tang and me?

[MacDougall]

@JaggedJimmyJay If nutella and Owner are both mafia then Made is a save.

@JaggedJimmyJay If nutella and Owner are both mafia then Made is a save.

are you saying that the mafia saved made by pushing both nutella and owner?

that would probably require a lot of mafia lol

@JaggedJimmyJay If nutella and Owner are both mafia then Made is a save.

What is a "save" in this sense?

I believe Made is a villager who was run up in order to protect nutella and Owner.

oh that makes more sense

That sure is a townie series of thoughts I had back there. Good job finding that for me.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Just a baseline of reads as I work through my own brainspace:

Alison - Played a key role in all three mafia deaths. A bussing case against her requires a great deal of presupposition. Not impossible; not likely. Claim not alignment-indicative.

Allcrab - Played a key role in Owner death and was a part of the democratic coalition to shoot orangecrush. Not impossible; fringe POE. Claim not alignment-indicative.

Garden Gnome - Is my dearest and will pass on anyway.

Guillotine - Gratuitous agent of chaos. Could be mafia on behavior. Claim is town-indicative if/when corroborated. I have theories.

lost monkey - Watch portion of JOAT claim seems legitimate. Was a nutella punching bag. Seems okay on behavior. Claim not entirely alignment-indicative.

MacDougall - Played a central role in eliminating nutella. Could be mafia on behavior. Other mafia relations questionable. No claim.

Made - Not much to say at all. No claim.

MartinGG99 - Was decently involved in the anti-orangecrush initiative. Seems okay on behavior. Claim not alignment-indicative.

Nanook - Was decently involved in getting nutella eliminated. Didn't seem interested in preventing Owner's demise. Was more actively a defender of orangecrush. Could be mafia on behavior. No claim.

Sloonei - Shot orangecrush in the bum. No.

TangyStarkPrime - Was shot in the bum by Belzy. Nope.

[Made]

@Alison Does remembering Nanook do anything for your read of the game state?

[Allcrab]

@Allcrab remind me what your targets are?

n1 was jay
n2 was tangrowth
n3 was you
n4 was mac

I know your result on Jay and you whiffed on Mac, what was the result on Tang and me?

Tang was 1 syn
Nobody visited you n3

[MacDougall]

Is shooting orangecrush actually clearing given they were floundering. I've seen stranger mafia decisions. Maybe Sloonei is just some mafia counter balance to belzy.

[Sloonei]

jay and gnome are pseudo-masons. Guillotine claims to be one half of a separate mason pairing. Does this make sense?

[Alison]

Guillo has claimed those 4 names are not his mason buddy.

If they aren't, then the only person left who can be his mason buddy is nanook. Nanook's ISO is strongly, strongly suggestive that he is masons with guillo - go look at it yourself, search guillo in his iso and see how obvious it is.

I don't think nook is mafia so I don't think they're mafia buddies faking masons with each other. It feels legit.

[MacDougall]

jay and gnome are pseudo-masons. Guillotine claims to be one half of a separate mason pairing. Does this make sense?

Guillotine is mason with the other mafia person left.

[Guillotine]

I wish someone had have cop checked me by now.

My partner's last night legacy was that you are town along with Alison and J, i disagreed on you being town, but now im not sure.

Mac, level with me. Would scum!you kill Seanzie right after he sus you?

Yes I love to make pro Mac night kills because they're always wifom to read into.

“The best way to lie in a game of lies is telling the truth”.

[MacDougall]

Guillo has claimed those 4 names are not his mason buddy.

If they aren't, then the only person left who can be his mason buddy is nanook. Nanook's ISO is strongly, strongly suggestive that he is masons with guillo - go look at it yourself, search guillo in his iso and see how obvious it is.

I don't think nook is mafia so I don't think they're mafia buddies faking masons with each other. It feels legit.

then who the fuck is the poisoner if it's not nanook lol

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I believe I have just learned something about Guillotine and will not be sharing what it is yet, but I'm less interested in chopping him than I was before I learned it. WOOO OMINOUS

[Sloonei]

Is shooting orangecrush actually clearing given they were floundering. I've seen stranger mafia decisions. Maybe Sloonei is just some mafia counter balance to belzy.

I was blocked trying to pick up Belzy's role on Night 2 and lost monkey has now corroborated this by claiming to have blocked me that night.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Well nevermind Alison just said it.

[Alison]

Guillo has claimed those 4 names are not his mason buddy.

If they aren't, then the only person left who can be his mason buddy is nanook. Nanook's ISO is strongly, strongly suggestive that he is masons with guillo - go look at it yourself, search guillo in his iso and see how obvious it is.

I don't think nook is mafia so I don't think they're mafia buddies faking masons with each other. It feels legit.

then who the fuck is the poisoner if it's not nanook lol

Who is the mafia team if you're town?

[MacDougall]

I wish someone had have cop checked me by now.

My partner's last night legacy was that you are town along with Alison and J, i disagreed on you being town, but now im not sure.

Mac, level with me. Would scum!you kill Seanzie right after he sus you?

Yes I love to make pro Mac night kills because they're always wifom to read into.

“The best way to lie in a game of lies is telling the truth”.

You would have rather me lied? I would answer you this way regardless of my alignment. You should probably consider modifying your play this way because you fixate on non alignment indicative things a lot and it's definitely a weakness in an otherwise pretty strong game you're developing.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Is shooting orangecrush actually clearing given they were floundering. I've seen stranger mafia decisions. Maybe Sloonei is just some mafia counter balance to belzy.

I was blocked trying to pick up Belzy's role on Night 2 and lost monkey has now corroborated this by claiming to have blocked me that night.

You ever learn anything about how your 1-shot was refunded to you, if that's what happened?

[Made]

Eh that's probably a bad read, nvm

Martin still not mafia unless Alison is too tho

What's the relation between Martin and Alison?

[Guillotine]

jay and gnome are pseudo-masons. Guillotine claims to be one half of a separate mason pairing. Does this make sense?

Guillotine is mason with the other mafia person left.

That is ridiculous. Masons are guaranteed to be town.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Eh that's probably a bad read, nvm

Martin still not mafia unless Alison is too tho

What's the relation between Martin and Alison?

Alison is hard townreading him

[MacDougall]

jay and gnome are pseudo-masons. Guillotine claims to be one half of a separate mason pairing. Does this make sense?

Guillotine is mason with the other mafia person left.

That is ridiculous. Masons are guaranteed to be town.

I have no confirmation that you are a mason beyond you saying it. I didn't mean you were literally mafia masons either just that you could have made this claim preemptively to survive. I would not be shocked in the slightest and have seen it before. It's also definitely in Nanook's playbook.

[Made]

Eh that's probably a bad read, nvm

Martin still not mafia unless Alison is too tho

What's the relation between Martin and Alison?

Alison is hard townreading him

Any takes on Martin outside of Alison?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Yes, ironically from a POE perspective, Alison/Martin would be one of the few plausible pairs remaining that I can think of off-hand in a world where Mac and/or Made is town.

[Alison]

Refresh me on how nanook has good interactions with nutella beyond bussing her.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Yeah I'm masons with guillo

Hes mostly been a dick and then told me some bs about us not being compatible cause I didn't want to rip on tangy's effort level, its been real fun

[JaggedJimmyJay]

[Made, Mac]; [Nanook, Guillotine]; [Alison, Martin] -- they technically work without needing overlap. I will have to verify the first set more closely.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Eh that's probably a bad read, nvm

Martin still not mafia unless Alison is too tho

What's the relation between Martin and Alison?

Alison is hard townreading him

Any takes on Martin outside of Alison?

Not particularly

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Refresh me on how nanook has good interactions with nutella beyond bussing her.

Given that he started with a town read on nutella (similar to myself), I suspect if he's her teammate that's where he stays. He reverted the read mid-day 1 when she failed to keep up appearances and it was one of the things that pushed me to reconsider myself.

[MacDougall]

Yeah I'm masons with guillo

Hes mostly been a dick and then told me some bs about us not being compatible cause I didn't want to rip on tangy's effort level, its been real fun

Oh I guess this claim is real lol.

[Sloonei]

Is shooting orangecrush actually clearing given they were floundering. I've seen stranger mafia decisions. Maybe Sloonei is just some mafia counter balance to belzy.

I was blocked trying to pick up Belzy's role on Night 2 and lost monkey has now corroborated this by claiming to have blocked me that night.

You ever learn anything about how your 1-shot was refunded to you, if that's what happened?

Nope. I was asked about this yesterday too and my response was to point that the phrase "1-shot" did not actually appear anywhere in my original rolecard. I described it as such because it was a single-use ability by design, but I guess it was not technically "1-shot", it was just an ability that changed to something else after it got used. The desperado role was explicitly described as "1-shot."

[Guillotine]

Yeah I'm masons with guillo

Hes mostly been a dick and then told me some bs about us not being compatible cause I didn't want to rip on tangy's effort level, its been real fun

Yesterday's honest people are today's dicks in a world entitled instant gratification jerks.

Sorry honesty does not resonate with you.

[MacDougall]

I have another pair.

Jay and Sloonei.

[Sloonei]

jay and gnome are pseudo-masons. Guillotine claims to be one half of a separate mason pairing. Does this make sense?

Guillotine is mason with the other mafia person left.

That is ridiculous. Masons are guaranteed to be town.

That is not what he is suggesting. He's saying your claim is fake.

[Sloonei]

I have another pair.

Jay and Sloonei.

He left for me a gnome.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Yeah you're a real hero alright, fighting the good fight

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Nope. I was asked about this yesterday too and my response was to point that the phrase "1-shot" did not actually appear anywhere in my original rolecard. I described it as such because it was a single-use ability by design, but I guess it was not technically "1-shot", it was just an ability that changed to something else after it got used. The desperado role was explicitly described as "1-shot."

Cool. I can't think of a reason off-hand why that might be in conflict with lost monkey's claim which is why I asked.

[Guillotine]

Oh... people are gonna say that Nanook and I are distancing now. Oops

[MacDougall]

Yeah you're a real hero alright, fighting the good fight

Lol what did he do to upset you?

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Anyways guillo basically claimed masons with his early to mid d1 reads, I clearly dropped off to avoid NKs, I dont think there's much space to doubt the claim tbh

[Alison]

I have another pair.

Jay and Sloonei.