PSY 2310 - Cognitive Psychology [END]

[bronana]

c4 seems much different that CoV. They aren't fucking around as much as they did there

c4 had a lot of agenda'd posting and joking around in CoV, sunbae. Like a lot of it. It was easy to call him out as a wolf after the first wolf flipped.

i actually kind of like her posts. why is she a wolf?

it's worth mentioning that dyachei's treatment of c4 in the first couple pages of the game was fairly friendly - dya immediately brought up that c4 was playing differently from CoV (where he was a wolf) and they prodded at c4's early read on me

im leaning on these posts spewing c4 as town - i think it would be easy for dya as a wolf to get their head into the game by calling out the obvious meta differences between c4's play in this game and his play in CoV, and the way that he prompted c4 to explain his read on me felt like they were TMI'ing both of us as villagers

the second quote has "i know i'm right" energy to it tbh

[staypositivefriend]

this might sound wacky but i think the fact that bronana defended dyachei so fervently even as the pressure ramped against them is actually a point in zack's favor - dyachei clearly knew that they were going to die sooner than later and i would anticipate that dyachei would want to be bussed and distanced from early instead of being defended. i have no doubt in my mind that the remaining wolf distanced from dyachei, and that isn't really reflected in most of bronana's posts about them

[staypositivefriend]

c4 seems much different that CoV. They aren't fucking around as much as they did there

c4 had a lot of agenda'd posting and joking around in CoV, sunbae. Like a lot of it. It was easy to call him out as a wolf after the first wolf flipped.

i actually kind of like her posts. why is she a wolf?

it's worth mentioning that dyachei's treatment of c4 in the first couple pages of the game was fairly friendly - dya immediately brought up that c4 was playing differently from CoV (where he was a wolf) and they prodded at c4's early read on me

im leaning on these posts spewing c4 as town - i think it would be easy for dya as a wolf to get their head into the game by calling out the obvious meta differences between c4's play in this game and his play in CoV, and the way that he prompted c4 to explain his read on me felt like they were TMI'ing both of us as villagers

the second quote has "i know i'm right" energy to it tbh

yeah agreed, and the whiplash from "c4 is towny and different from CoV" to "c4 is wolfy, actually" is a pretty wild turnaround for dyachei to make on their partner in such a short amount of time - i think it's more likely to be dyachei opportunistically going after a villager that they see as an easy target more than partner interaction

[bronana]

this might sound wacky but i think the fact that bronana defended dyachei so fervently even as the pressure ramped against them is actually a point in zack's favor - dyachei clearly knew that they were going to die sooner than later and i would anticipate that dyachei would want to be bussed and distanced from early instead of being defended. i have no doubt in my mind that the remaining wolf distanced from dyachei, and that isn't really reflected in most of bronana's posts about them

I dunno about that, as a wolf I'd probably have tried to delay the dya yeet as long as I could get away with. You gotta look at dya's side to see the posts that make us not w/w.

But if you want my POV: I thought dya had a wolfy start, they got mad at me, I backed off, some of the reasons people were sussing them were vague or not particularly AI for dya, I got lumped in with them as a teammate, alison didn't show up to defender herself, alison flips V, dya's d3 was poor, looked partnery with vulgard, everyone immediately voted them d4 and there was no point to me piling on so I focused elsewhere.

[bronana]

townread for the wrong raisins

[Dyslexicon]

c4 seems much different that CoV. They aren't fucking around as much as they did there

c4 had a lot of agenda'd posting and joking around in CoV, sunbae. Like a lot of it. It was easy to call him out as a wolf after the first wolf flipped.

i actually kind of like her posts. why is she a wolf?

it's worth mentioning that dyachei's treatment of c4 in the first couple pages of the game was fairly friendly - dya immediately brought up that c4 was playing differently from CoV (where he was a wolf) and they prodded at c4's early read on me

im leaning on these posts spewing c4 as town - i think it would be easy for dya as a wolf to get their head into the game by calling out the obvious meta differences between c4's play in this game and his play in CoV, and the way that he prompted c4 to explain his read on me felt like they were TMI'ing both of us as villagers

I could see this.

[Dyslexicon]

-i accidentally included amy on two tiers on one of my readslist on d2. does that mean that i'm partnered with amy? what is my wolf motivation for putting vulgard twice on the same list by accident? that doesn't even make sense lol

I mean, this is a super nit pick detail thing, but do you know why it happened at all?
I've seen people accidentally put a name twice in different tiers before. It surprises me a bit from you, because I see you as a pretty systematic player.

in both cases (amy and vulgard), it was because i was actively debating between putting them in two tiers, made up my mind, and then forgot to remove them from the other tier. just stuff that i do when im sleep deprived lol

Something something hindsight coffee tell something

[Dyslexicon]

I think I want to take c4 out of PoE

[staypositivefriend]

I think I want to take c4 out of PoE

i am leaning the same. in a world where im a wolf here, i practically need c4 to go over at some point in order to win the game. so the fact that im arguing for c4 being a villager should indicate to you that im just a villager as well :P

[staypositivefriend]

this might sound wacky but i think the fact that bronana defended dyachei so fervently even as the pressure ramped against them is actually a point in zack's favor - dyachei clearly knew that they were going to die sooner than later and i would anticipate that dyachei would want to be bussed and distanced from early instead of being defended. i have no doubt in my mind that the remaining wolf distanced from dyachei, and that isn't really reflected in most of bronana's posts about them

I dunno about that, as a wolf I'd probably have tried to delay the dya yeet as long as I could get away with. You gotta look at dya's side to see the posts that make us not w/w.

But if you want my POV: I thought dya had a wolfy start, they got mad at me, I backed off, some of the reasons people were sussing them were vague or not particularly AI for dya, I got lumped in with them as a teammate, alison didn't show up to defender herself, alison flips V, dya's d3 was poor, looked partnery with vulgard, everyone immediately voted them d4 and there was no point to me piling on so I focused elsewhere.

i dunno, i think it was clear that dyachei had given up on surviving until the endgame sometime around d2/d3, and i just imagine any wolf who was thinking strategically would try to keep dyachei directly in their POE and directly as someone to push/distance from instead of mostly just defending them and arguing with people about why their reads are flawed. i just dont really think that bussing kza and vulgard(?) but then getting cold feet about dyachei is an approach that you would take as a wolf

[bronana]

I'm the jailkeeper and I targeted c4 last night. @c4e5g3d5 I don't think you are ever the night kill target last night, especially not with Amy alive. Not with Chloe Nutella arete and Vulgard alive.

okay well I guess my reads just suck then

:wowee:

ngl I thought bronana was softing jailkeeper who targeted Sunbae

[VOTE: c4] aubergine

@Marluxion

am I reading you correctly that you claimed to Vul in your neighborhood

he was already clear but if he can be extra clear that's cool too

Amy pointed this out already but it would be really weird for wolves to decide to just factional kill c4 (which could in theory happen), or any non-Amy target, while not roleblocking Amy

when marl claims he jk'd c4 ---> "well i guess my reads just suck then, vote: c4, wolves would never kill a non-amy target without roleblocking amy"

when sunbae counterclaims and says he jailed vulgard ---> "actually my reads are perfect and sunbae is a wolf, look at all these explanations for why amy wasn't roleblocked, i will make this point very aggressively and ridicule people who disagree"

?????

[Dyslexicon]

I think I want to take c4 out of PoE

i am leaning the same. in a world where im a wolf here, i practically need c4 to go over at some point in order to win the game. so the fact that im arguing for c4 being a villager should indicate to you that im just a villager as well :P

I thought about just that. But then I also thought you are probably smart enough to know this, and maybe that’s why you’re saying nice stuff about people, but then you bring it up yourself! Rawr. Yeah, you’re probably town.

So it should be Aroot. Unless I’m dumb clearing Zack or something.

@bronana When did you conclude you weren’t going to vote me? I thought you were not sure. Just curious

[Dyslexicon]

I'm the jailkeeper and I targeted c4 last night. @c4e5g3d5 I don't think you are ever the night kill target last night, especially not with Amy alive. Not with Chloe Nutella arete and Vulgard alive.

okay well I guess my reads just suck then

:wowee:

ngl I thought bronana was softing jailkeeper who targeted Sunbae

[VOTE: c4] aubergine

@Marluxion

am I reading you correctly that you claimed to Vul in your neighborhood

he was already clear but if he can be extra clear that's cool too

Amy pointed this out already but it would be really weird for wolves to decide to just factional kill c4 (which could in theory happen), or any non-Amy target, while not roleblocking Amy

when marl claims he jk'd c4 ---> "well i guess my reads just suck then, vote: c4, wolves would never kill a non-amy target without roleblocking amy"

when sunbae counterclaims and says he jailed vulgard ---> "actually my reads are perfect and sunbae is a wolf, look at all these explanations for why amy wasn't roleblocked, i will make this point very aggressively and ridicule people who disagree"

?????

[VOTE: Arete] aubergine

Yeah. I think it will have to be the Aroot.

[staypositivefriend]

if anyone wants some like, super recent meta on me, here's a game that just finished this morning:

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... of-Fortune

i was town and solved the game just in the knick of time at LYLO. my game was p messy before that lol

[Dyslexicon]

No, I don’t even have time to read this game. Plz no

[staypositivefriend]

three strongest townreads ATM are nutella, c4, and bronana

[Dyslexicon]

I won’t fully trust you unless you claim joat!

[staypositivefriend]

No, I don’t even have time to read this game. Plz no

you know you want to :P

[Dyslexicon]

three strongest townreads ATM are nutella, c4, and bronana

I’m jealous

[Dyslexicon]

No, I don’t even have time to read this game. Plz no

you know you want to :P

I totally don’t.

[staypositivefriend]

Spoiler: show

Spoiler: show

im joat

[bronana]

@bronana When did you conclude you weren’t going to vote me? I thought you were not sure. Just curious

shortly before i said it :P

good posts + decided to trust sunbae & the people who know you saying dude dizzy is a villager + tired of saying/thinking dizzy seems like a villager but COULD BE a wolf + game doesn't have the mouthfeel of dizzy wolf

[bronana]

three strongest townreads ATM are nutella, c4, and bronana

I’m jealous

[bronana]

bronana/amy/sunbae/spf

the four pillars of the village

[staypositivefriend]

bronana/amy/sunbae/spf

the four pillars of the village

this aged like fine wine

(assuming my tr on you was correct)

[nutella]

alright the last page or so is making me more and more comfortable with going [VOTE: arete] aubergine

sorry morl, sunbae is our king

[outed wolf]

Hope we're right fellas

[bronana]

I have to admit I'm more comfortable being righteously subordinate than having people agree and follow my vote lol

[bronana]

righteously *insubordinate

[outed wolf]

I have to admit I'm more comfortable being righteously subordinate than having people agree and follow my vote lol

lol yes v understandable

[c4e5g3d5]

Back for a moment
Would like to say that if I didn't drop off in later days I'd probably be a wolf lol

@c4e5g3d5 i was just looking into your d1 iso a bit and something i'm confused about is your progression (i know, i know) on spf

you open with wolfreading her, start to explain that she's one of the easiest players for you to read, and then you stop mentioning her for a while and in fact have a long string of posts with the gradually built up initials reads lists that dont include her at all even though shes apparently easy for you to read? and eventually you post a full length reads lists and she's in the middle section of it. and then yet later you pop in and declare that she's town

i also remember when dya asked you to elaborate on this and you refused. was that theater?

I referred dya to the explanation I gave Dizzy five seconds earlier, not refusal

I don't see where to go other than [VOTE: Dyslexicon] aubergine
This will probably start another messy argument that I really shouldn't be starting rn

Not really. But if you have questions, I can try to answer.
I don't know if it helps, but I can point out that those who have had suspicion against me are the exact players who have not played with me before, and those who aren't worried are the ones who know me. This has happened in many games already. So let me know what you're struggling with still, if you care to do so.

Thumbs up
Not specifically about your play atp so I'm not sure how much there is for you to do in terms of clarifying your PoV
If you think I'm making a listake somewhere else that's another question

@c4e5g3d5 hello what you got

Kinda gotten nowhere new

Your constant switching on dya isn't w/w
dya pocketed Zack
dya TMI'd Visor
Vulgard pocketed Arete
spf generally obvious

I'd be doing more due diligence if I weren't busy with you know what
That's probably not true

Every time you say "Dizzy doesn't bus", and every time I say "but that's not bussing", we explore no new ground. Is there some nuance here I'm not picking up? Like I said, my hand is yours to hold.

That's not what either me or Nut have been saying though. I do bus if it puts my team in a good position. But I don't connect a widely town read teammate to a widely scum read and likely to go down teammate for absolutely no reason when I don't have to. That is outside of what I would do as mafia. The read is just genuine, and in fact a very typical discovery for my town game. I think Sunbae to actually dare to go for it more than I did at the time.

I don't understand why you're voting me or what problems you have with me exactly. So let me know what more I can do, if anything, about that.

Still largely stumped on where else to go is all
If it really just ends with Arete tomorrow then yell at me in post all you want

c4, basically here I have SPF/Mark's meta-read and vulgard's treatment of him didn't seem w/w. I don't know how much he busses as a wolf, when I glanced at cov it seemed like "very little" but who knows. I think nothing of how dya turned on him, that is within w/w range for them, especially when he was pushing dya first.

I've bussed exactly once, at a point when my partner was already mech outed. Don't actually use this though, I have two wolf games lol

@c4e5g3d5 Did you work hard to get Dya chopped on D2?

I'm not great at campaigning for things, but I did call him a wolf, and I did try to get votes off of Alison by pinging people with my reasons. That's usually the extent I can manage.

[c4e5g3d5]

*Them

[c4e5g3d5]

Okay well now I feel dumb for asking everyone where I might be making a mistake

[c4e5g3d5]

I'm working off of memory alone on my perception of the Arete/Vulgard dynamic, so if I'm getting anywhere productive here, I'll need to actually dive back in.

[staypositivefriend]

[VOTE: outed wolf] aubergine

[c4e5g3d5]

Also I veto the Arete wagon. I don't have a solid read on them yet, they could be town. When I wolfread them, I'll make sure they die d1 because otherwise I'm the n1 kill. Unless you think we're W/W, I guess.

I mean
Seems like a pretty unambiguous pocket attempt

The arrogance is screaming "Hey Arete, I'm gonna read you correctly this game"

[outed wolf]

[VOTE: outed wolf] aubergine

[bronana]

[VOTE: outed wolf] aubergine

deus vult

[outed wolf]

[bronana]

[bronana]

Whether we win the game or lose the game is beside the argument. You townreading me, if you are a villager, is probably the worst single townread in the history of townreads that I have ever seen, in my entire life, in 3 years, on MU, on POG, and I've been a host for 2 of them and played dozens. It is potentially one of the most anti-town actions I've laid my eyes on in my entire WW career. It is atrocious, dumbfounding, and inexcusable, and close to the border of gamethrowing. And sullies your entire effort to the game, so that your biggest contribution to the game is one in which you are literally indistinguishable to an outted wolf whose team has been decimated so far. Indeed, if you are a villager then wolves got an extra wolf, meaning that YOU ALONE are responsible for making this setup wolfsided. Think about that for a second.

[outed wolf]

lol such a great pasta

[Arete]

Arete, I haven't paid to much attention to before now. I find their posts a bit difficult to digest tbh. I tried reading their post about the Syn slot last day, and I just didn't follow. I've asked a couple of times about their relation to Vulgard, but I don't think I've gotten an answer. There's obviously a relationship there. I wonder if it's like me/Hally or something. The overt defence is absurd, and maybe absurd enough to be two wolves deciding to hard town read each other throughout the game. But I think Arete did it quicker and harder than Vulgard did. I want to check their reaction to Dya having them towards the bottom of their read list when they hadn't interacted much before that.

I don't know the exact details of you and Hally's friendship but I would say that Vul and I know each other ... reasonably well, given that we met each other online? I don't know, I'm always worried that if I say I'm friends with someone they'll be like 'wait no we're not friends don't say that it's weird.' Before this game I would have said that we had an Unshakeable Soulread that was Never Wrong on each other. Apparently that was not in fact the case, but that's the assumption I was working on this game.

@Arete Did you ever react to the way Dya was reading you? How would you describe your interaction in general?

Not really, I was vaguely annoyed that they were hard townreading Vul and not really townreading me even though Vul was townreading me and has a good read on me but I didn't actually say that because I didn't want to only ever complain that people weren't townreading me enough. I found some of the things they were saying about signing up for a light game and finding themself in a game that no one else was treating as a light game to resonate me but I didn't say anything about it because I didn't really think it was AI and also I was worried that if Dya did turn out to be scum people would be like 'wow, you were defending them by saying that this resonated with you??? you must be their partner' and I didn't particularly think they were town. In terms of interactions, there were a couple points where they said something kind of and I questioned them on it, but nothing that I would say is outside-view strongly indicative in either direction.

For the record I feel like 'Arete didn't interact a lot with Dya, which makes them partners,' which I've seen a couple times, is ... silly? like if you think I'm a wolf then clearly I would be capable of interacting with my partners, seeing as how basically all I did the entire game until he died was interact with Vul.

Spoiler: show

I'm the jailkeeper and I targeted c4 last night. @c4e5g3d5 I don't think you are ever the night kill target last night, especially not with Amy alive. Not with Chloe Nutella arete and Vulgard alive.

okay well I guess my reads just suck then

:wowee:

ngl I thought bronana was softing jailkeeper who targeted Sunbae

[VOTE: c4] aubergine

@Marluxion

am I reading you correctly that you claimed to Vul in your neighborhood

he was already clear but if he can be extra clear that's cool too

Amy pointed this out already but it would be really weird for wolves to decide to just factional kill c4 (which could in theory happen), or any non-Amy target, while not roleblocking Amy

when marl claims he jk'd c4 ---> "well i guess my reads just suck then, vote: c4, wolves would never kill a non-amy target without roleblocking amy"

when sunbae counterclaims and says he jailed vulgard ---> "actually my reads are perfect and sunbae is a wolf, look at all these explanations for why amy wasn't roleblocked, i will make this point very aggressively and ridicule people who disagree"

?????

I don't really know how to explain this well but c4 wasn't ... a read I was confident in? a person that I expect to predictably read correctly? whereas Vul was. so when Marl said he had jailkept c4 I was like 'welp, guess the reason I had to think he was town wasn't actually true' and felt a little silly about having been (I thought at the time) wrong whereas when Sunbae said he jailkept Vul I was like 'no you DIDN'T he's a VILLAGER' and came up with what were admittedly increasingly questionable rationalizations for how he could be not a wolf.

[Arete]

you are literally indistinguishable to an outted wolf

no he's an outed wolf can't you read his username

[Arete]

outed wolf being a wagon is confusing to me

I've found his interactions with the dead wolves to be generally very unlikely to be W/W

the arguments that it's him feel more like 'well he did something kind of weird and surface-level wolfsiding' than 'he is actually more likely to be a wolf than anyone else in the game'

[outed wolf]

i dont think the votes on me are real

(or at least i would be confused if they are)

[Arete]

I want the game to end today, but I don't know who to vote today. Town, be town.

I want to talk to c4 about his read/thoughts on me.

I want to talk to Arete about how they felt when Vulgard was mafia.

sorry I missed this before

uh

I was sad about it, and frustrated with myself for not catching him, and sad that this meant that we couldn't just automatically be masons in every V/V game in the future? I don't know what else to say that wouldn't just be ATE

I think I was less impacted by his wolf flip than I normally would have been because he had started lowkey lolcatting before EoD and I had semi resigned myself to the possibility of him flipping scum, so I didn't have the 'wait oh no he was a wolf' realization all at once

did you have any specific questions?

[Arete]

[VOTE: SPF] aubergine

weh

[outed wolf]

[VOTE: c4] aubergine

[bronana]

[VOTE: c4] aubergine