Buckets: War of the GOATs [END]

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

how do you reconcile your top town read lock clearing your top wolf read?

@alexa do you have a nanook read?

Essentially like this:

I can kinda see the progression Nanook has and it's pretty reasonable. Like he snap scumread Ilario for what appears to be outing a pretty bad read on Alexa who he was townreading from the get-go and kinda shielding. Wiml defended ilario and Nanook didn't like that so he's content to see Wiml punished for it.

@NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME if you think Ilario is a wolf what is your plan to actually resolve him given he's read town by practically everyone?

Say I told you so and be smug while people get pissy at me in post

This is a half serious answer

Either we're in a world where I have a better read on ilario than his friends, in which case I'm going to die before he does and he either skates to a win or his friends eventually realize he's mafia in f3 and pretend that they're great for catching him despite me correctly calling him scum in like 2 seconds while they omgused me on his behalf

Or we're in a world where I'm wrong and I've identified the wrong misclear in the towncore/it's two others in my poe


Either way, looking at this pragmatically he's not dying and I'm not going to successfully push him over, so

Hopefully you guys are right and I'm wrong

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I mean I know that you already said you're just not gonna push him and hope his friends are right etc. etc. so I guess that's what you're gonna do.

But then he's not really your top wolf is he? You're essentially choosing to actively town read him by proxy.

So is it far to say your top wolf read you intend to do something about is wiml given you are voting there?

Sure that's fair enough

[MacDougall]

@Lime Coke ur shielding alexa hard, are you shield ilario with the same vigour?

[Lime Coke]

@Lime Coke @ilario @alexa @NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME @Wiml @EnderWiggin @TonyStarkPrime @Esooa

if there was one player in the game you would say is most likely town and one who is most likely mafia who would they be? plz tag me in reply.

@MacDougall

Most likely town: Alexa

Most likely Mafia: None of your business Nanook

[Lime Coke]

“ You say I fell off but I kinda do that as town too?”

Am I misinterpreting something or is the wording there off?

But I kinda do that as town too?

.....Implying that he isn’t town right now?

not at all really, it makes perfect grammatical sense for him to say that from the town perspective

Everything I do is grammatically correct, god dammit!

[MacDougall]

@Lime Coke @ilario @alexa @NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME @Wiml @EnderWiggin @TonyStarkPrime @Esooa

if there was one player in the game you would say is most likely town and one who is most likely mafia who would they be? plz tag me in reply.

town-alexa

maf-this read changes every 12 hours for me, have u seen p#4489 from me? nobody noticed my post there

can you just make the read please?

[Lime Coke]

@Lime Coke ur shielding alexa hard, are you shield ilario with the same vigour?

Not Illario.

If there's anyone that's second highest townread to me it is Esooa but she hasn't had any pressure on her so I didn't need to shield.

[ilario]

@Lime Coke @ilario @alexa @NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME @Wiml @EnderWiggin @TonyStarkPrime @Esooa

if there was one player in the game you would say is most likely town and one who is most likely mafia who would they be? plz tag me in reply.

town-alexa

maf-this read changes every 12 hours for me, have u seen p#4489 from me? nobody noticed my post there

can you just make the read please?

probably nanook, his thing about the post-game stuff and his answers to u there were kinda towny but not enough for me to budge on him atm.

[ilario]

If i was going to score people based on the quantity and quality of their solving I would have Esooa and Ender at the top. Alexa and Ilario thereish. Maybe this is just how I need to read this game.

Has that method ever worked out much for you? Genuinely curious cos most games have a fair few scums looking more solvey than a good portion of town

[MacDougall]

Ilario - Alexa town, Nanook mafia
Lime Coke - Alexa town, Nanook mafia
Nanook - Alexa town, Wiml mafia (but realy Ilario)
Ender - Illario town, Lime Coke mafia

[MacDougall]

If i was going to score people based on the quantity and quality of their solving I would have Esooa and Ender at the top. Alexa and Ilario thereish. Maybe this is just how I need to read this game.

Has that method ever worked out much for you? Genuinely curious cos most games have a fair few scums looking more solvey than a good portion of town

I back myself to be able to read the quality of the solving accurately though. Wolf solving rarely is convincing even if it's voluminous. If a wolf can show me town thought in their solving that reaches the threshold I require I would be impressed.

But you are right the bigger issue is bad town play. Which is why this has to coincide with an improvement in the gamestate and quality of play.

[ilario]

So if you could have your way you'd have no problem with other town banking an Alexa town read on you being correct and just letting her skate otherwise?

Lol even if people did bank on the read alexa is the last person I’d expect to just skate by

[MacDougall]

For instance Wiml may have passed quantity markers but he has made no reads that I look at as being outside his wolf range.

Nanook has not passed any quantity markers but his reads have been more challenging to make than Wiml's reads have been.

[MacDougall]

So if you could have your way you'd have no problem with other town banking an Alexa town read on you being correct and just letting her skate otherwise?

Lol even if people did bank on the read alexa is the last person I’d expect to just skate by

Good question dodge. I am asking if you're happy for me to just sheep you on this read and ignore everything to the contrary and just blame you in post if she's a wolf and you are town?

[ilario]

For instance Wiml may have passed quantity markers but he has made no reads that I look at as being outside his wolf range.

Nanook has not passed any quantity markers but his reads have been more challenging to make than Wiml's reads have been.

i actually agree with this statement

[ilario]

So if you could have your way you'd have no problem with other town banking an Alexa town read on you being correct and just letting her skate otherwise?

Lol even if people did bank on the read alexa is the last person I’d expect to just skate by

Good question dodge. I am asking if you're happy for me to just sheep you on this read and ignore everything to the contrary and just blame you in post if she's a wolf and you are town?

100%

[MacDougall]

Ender is another who as of recent decided to get his ISO wriggle on but nothing he produced showed an incredible amount of insight and other than that his reads have not been provocative at all.

It feels to me like the wolves are resigned to Alexa being townread and are among those who are just feeding her bullshit. I think that's a near certainty at this point.

[MacDougall]

@ilario do you have any games I can read where you were a wolf and alexa was town?

[ilario]

@ilario do you have any games I can read where you were a wolf and alexa was town?

sure,

but why didnt u ask it the other way around? just curious..

[MacDougall]

I am rather comfortable townreading Nanook now. He's put himself into a position where he is very likely to not last to endgame just simply because he made reads he believes in ie. Ilario wolf, Mac town. He is not making an effort to win this game for his wolf team unless his entire plan is to just die to spew Ilario town.

[MacDougall]

@ilario do you have any games I can read where you were a wolf and alexa was town?

sure,

but why didnt u ask it the other way around? just curious..

Because I am not interested in reading that dynamic.

[ilario]

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/31261

[EnderWiggin]

Ender is another who as of recent decided to get his ISO wriggle on but nothing he produced showed an incredible amount of insight and other than that his reads have not been provocative at all.

It feels to me like the wolves are resigned to Alexa being townread and are among those who are just feeding her bullshit. I think that's a near certainty at this point.

And yet I'm the "Most solvy" on your list?

[MacDougall]

@alexa I'd really like to hear the confidence you have in your ilario and LC townreads out of 10 and also your top town and wolf reads.

[MacDougall]

Ender is another who as of recent decided to get his ISO wriggle on but nothing he produced showed an incredible amount of insight and other than that his reads have not been provocative at all.

It feels to me like the wolves are resigned to Alexa being townread and are among those who are just feeding her bullshit. I think that's a near certainty at this point.

And yet I'm the "Most solvy" on your list?

Yes I know it sounds contradictory. I have a habit of making reads on people simply because they do a thing and revising the read when I actually look at the content. The same thing I did with Wiml's read on me earlier.

[EnderWiggin]

Ender is another who as of recent decided to get his ISO wriggle on but nothing he produced showed an incredible amount of insight and other than that his reads have not been provocative at all.

It feels to me like the wolves are resigned to Alexa being townread and are among those who are just feeding her bullshit. I think that's a near certainty at this point.

And yet I'm the "Most solvy" on your list?

Yes I know it sounds contradictory. I have a habit of making reads on people simply because they do a thing and revising the read when I actually look at the content. The same thing I did with Wiml's read on me earlier.

Lol.

Well, I personally liked my LC case.

[EnderWiggin]

Funnily enough I had LC at town and it was Mac poking that got me to case LC and revise the read in the first place.

[MacDougall]

Ender is another who as of recent decided to get his ISO wriggle on but nothing he produced showed an incredible amount of insight and other than that his reads have not been provocative at all.

It feels to me like the wolves are resigned to Alexa being townread and are among those who are just feeding her bullshit. I think that's a near certainty at this point.

And yet I'm the "Most solvy" on your list?

Yes I know it sounds contradictory. I have a habit of making reads on people simply because they do a thing and revising the read when I actually look at the content. The same thing I did with Wiml's read on me earlier.

Lol.

Well, I personally liked my LC case.

Look I am not saying I hate that you did it. I applaud it as either alignment. I just think you're probably capable of that level of fake analysis as a wolf. And aside from that I can't remember any other reads you made that were challenging. And you keep coming back to sus me, which keeps the pressure on me which fmpov is at best wolfsiding.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

For instance Wiml may have passed quantity markers but he has made no reads that I look at as being outside his wolf range.

Nanook has not passed any quantity markers but his reads have been more challenging to make than Wiml's reads have been.

i actually agree with this statement

Half the posts of yours I read you're saying what amounts to "yeah I guess X thing from nanook is a bit townie"

And yet I'm still your top scumread

Wild

[EnderWiggin]

Lol.

Well, I personally liked my LC case.

Look I am not saying I hate that you did it. I applaud it as either alignment. I just think you're probably capable of that level of fake analysis as a wolf. And aside from that I can't remember any other reads you made that were challenging. And you keep coming back to sus me, which keeps the pressure on me which fmpov is at best wolfsiding.

I want to say I'm not, but I actually am.

So my Wiml scumread (Before Esooa even) wasn't challenging? Back when he was originally considered townread?

Are you sure you're not scum Mac?

(Ooooh look at the pressure again!)

[EnderWiggin]

I did back off it originally after I doubted but there was a bit where I was spatting with Wiml.

[ilario]

For instance Wiml may have passed quantity markers but he has made no reads that I look at as being outside his wolf range.

Nanook has not passed any quantity markers but his reads have been more challenging to make than Wiml's reads have been.

i actually agree with this statement

Half the posts of yours I read you're saying what amounts to "yeah I guess X thing from nanook is a bit townie"

And yet I'm still your top scumread

Wild

It really isn’t that wild considering I’ve had statements like that for every player in every game I’ve ever randed town. Everyone has towny moments, but if those moments are few and far in between, and I have to squint pretty hard to read it as towny, then more often than not it’s just mafia.

[MacDougall]

Lol.

Well, I personally liked my LC case.

Look I am not saying I hate that you did it. I applaud it as either alignment. I just think you're probably capable of that level of fake analysis as a wolf. And aside from that I can't remember any other reads you made that were challenging. And you keep coming back to sus me, which keeps the pressure on me which fmpov is at best wolfsiding.

I want to say I'm not, but I actually am.

So my Wiml scumread (Before Esooa even) wasn't challenging? Back when he was originally considered townread?

Are you sure you're not scum Mac?

(Ooooh look at the pressure again!)

By all means link me to where you made that read.

No I am town. Though I am phone posting again so you'll probably go bad to scumreading me.

[EnderWiggin]

Had to Link Mac my LMAO's as town.

Had to do all the LC casing for him.

Have to link my previous reads.

Mac really likes making other people do work.

[MacDougall]

Had to Link Mac my LMAO's as town.

Had to do all the LC casing for him.

Have to link my previous reads.

Mac really likes making other people do work.

Yes I do. I am a manager.

[EnderWiggin]

Spoiler: show

[VOTE: wiml] aubergine

Wiml quick hammering the seer was the second most frustrating moment.

The most frustrating was me fucking up f3.

In my defence.

I was bored.

I rate that defense bubble-wrap.

@EnderWiggin why did you vote wiml

Cause he wasn't towntelling and there were other votes so I wanted to pressure. Also was about to head out for like, six hours idk.

I'm 100% sure Ender's comment about me not towntelling is a lie btw.

There is no towntell you have made so far that I am not sure you could replicate as mafia.

That being said I'm not a super good meta-reader so who knows. I might be in whiplash from the Scythe sweep.

But to call it a lie is a little disingenuous. Almost seems agenda-y

anyone who has seen Ender as wolf have any idea of his ranges/differences?

I pretty much outed all of my meta tells on him last game tbh.

..i don't think i was in last game?

You weren't, what I was meaning to say is that I shoved all of his meta tells down people's throats last game and now they're probably soggy.

The fact that you're acting like there was any cohesive meta-read you pulled on me in that game is making me feel very much like you're trying to establish some sort of authority on the subject when you, in reality, have none.

Yeah I'm still pretty happy with Wiml vote.

Remind me who you're clearing

For the sake of discussion let's just say that I'm lock clearing everyone who isn't in my active PoE.

So alexa, Esooa, LC, Alison, TSP.

Where are the wolves in that list?

Alison or lime

Maybe tsp, dependent on ilario's flip

Tbf I wouldn't be incredibly shocked if there was a wolf in those three names, particularly because I no longer have a reason to TR Alison as strongly and her attempt at a push on me felt like a stretch.

TSP if illario is town? Do you have any familiarity with him and his meta?

Also seriously please explain why you think blade is town here lol. I'm usually not bad at reading him but I'm not seeing it here tbh.

With tsp? Yes, lots. It rarely helps.

I'm good at reading blade idk what to tell you. He has townie drive, is that something that'll convince you?

Thanks. Most importantly: does TSP ever slank like this as a wolf in his normal wolf games? If no, do you think he'd be capable of taking a step back this game if he had a sufficiently strong partner? I talked about my thoughts on that earlier but I'm interested in hearing what you think with actual experience playing with him lol.

As for blade, not really tbh. Do you have any thoughts on him claiming that I haven't towntold yet but then sort of rolling that back and saying that I hadn't done anything town indicative yet instead? (After I called him out because I knew he had no real town tells on me and was pushing that in bad faith).

This is putting intent into my words that isn't there.

Wiml still a good target. Was misrepresenting me and implying he had good read on me until I called bullshit

@MacDougall

I eventually faded off that to sus you hard. But I don't think sussing wiml is a "non-challenging read".

[MacDougall]

Yeah I can give points for that tbh.

[EnderWiggin]

Mac changing his mind without checking and throwing words out there and forcing other people to prove him wrong when he's wrong is irritating.

I don't know whether it's actually scummy but it's irritating.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

For instance Wiml may have passed quantity markers but he has made no reads that I look at as being outside his wolf range.

Nanook has not passed any quantity markers but his reads have been more challenging to make than Wiml's reads have been.

i actually agree with this statement

Half the posts of yours I read you're saying what amounts to "yeah I guess X thing from nanook is a bit townie"

And yet I'm still your top scumread

Wild

It really isn’t that wild considering I’ve had statements like that for every player in every game I’ve ever randed town. Everyone has towny moments, but if those moments are few and far in between, and I have to squint pretty hard to read it as towny, then more often than not it’s just mafia.

I mean I think you're just full of shit obviously and have to keep scumreading me to keep the poe intact, but on the off chance you're not then you should probably get better glasses/reevaluate your process

[MacDougall]

Mac changing his mind without checking and throwing words out there and forcing other people to prove him wrong when he's wrong is irritating.

I don't know whether it's actually scummy but it's irritating.

Thats what happens when everyone decides to make 500 posts.

[Lime Coke]

I fell asleep and I'm probably going back because it's late but I want to respond to-

@MacDougall

I know you asked Illario this, but I'd also 100% take blame if I were wrong on Alexa this game.
And if Alexa is scum this game, all of this hard shielding bullshit you'll never see again on any mafia site that exists.

You flat out have my word on that. I'm willing to bet the game that she's town here.

[Wiml]

Does the game still suck?

[MacDougall]

I remember you getting super mad at me for suspecting Honey too so it's hard for me to care much LC.

[MacDougall]

Does the game still suck?

I've been trying to make it more productive for solving the last few pages. I did tag you with a question.

[Wiml]

Does the game still suck?

I've been trying to make it more productive for solving the last few pages. I did tag you with a question.

Yeah I can see the mentions and I'll respond as I get through.

Tbh I don’t really want to play any more lol.

[MacDougall]

Does the game still suck?

I've been trying to make it more productive for solving the last few pages. I did tag you with a question.

Yeah I can see the mentions and I'll respond as I get through.

Tbh I don’t really want to play any more lol.

why?

[alexa]

@alexa I'd really like to hear the confidence you have in your ilario and LC townreads out of 10 and also your top town and wolf reads.

Ilario 100% confident

LC I need to catch-up read which I probably won’t be able to do until morning

NANOOK is probably my top wolf read with the caveat I haven’t read since yesterday late afternoon

[ilario]

For instance Wiml may have passed quantity markers but he has made no reads that I look at as being outside his wolf range.

Nanook has not passed any quantity markers but his reads have been more challenging to make than Wiml's reads have been.

i actually agree with this statement

Half the posts of yours I read you're saying what amounts to "yeah I guess X thing from nanook is a bit townie"

And yet I'm still your top scumread

Wild

It really isn’t that wild considering I’ve had statements like that for every player in every game I’ve ever randed town. Everyone has towny moments, but if those moments are few and far in between, and I have to squint pretty hard to read it as towny, then more often than not it’s just mafia.

I mean I think you're just full of shit obviously and have to keep scumreading me to keep the poe intact, but on the off chance you're not then you should probably get better glasses/reevaluate your process

that goes both ways considering youre the only person to sr me rn

but sure lets have it your way, if u think im scum and your theory is that im trying to keep the poe intact then why do i go through all that effort to tr mac when the entire lobby was circling in on him 24 hours ago?

[alexa]

Like NANOOK has been riding a ilario wolf read from one post into the game it just feels like he came to “ilario is a wolf” then tried to justify it rather than reading posts and trying to read him

[ilario]

like what do i specifically gain from keeping the poe intact from my pov when everyone else is already leaning scum on ur slot regardless? and i dont mean this in a rude way but i dont really have to put u as my top sr in order to get you eliminated atp so i really dont "need" to keep scumreading you like you say. in actuality, if ur town and im scum it benefits me to start distancing from ur yeet and setting up on another town in order to get back to back town yeets.