Philosophy Mafia 2: Electric Boogaloo

[staypositivefriend]

I'm also frustrated because I'm pouring an effort and a half into this game, and am currently being run up for kinda shoddy reasons and meta-comparisons.

this is exactly how i feel. barely anyone has tried to talk to me today or critically engaged with me but im probably in contention to be chopped today because people who dont know how to read me would rather just write me off as a potential wolf instead of doing the hard work of trying to read me. i should be blatantly town to anyone that's paying half attention to this game and i hate that illario is playing into the annoying paranoia against my slot by putting me in a dichotomy with mac with shoddy reasoning. i feel like the only way a lot of people in this game know how to read me is when i show emotion or when i get annoyed, and i find that annoying because i think it's cheap to clear myself off of emotion

that was a very self pitying woe-is-me post but i had to get it off my chest because the way that people approach reading my slot can be really frustrating to deal with

[staypositivefriend]

okay actually now that i wrote that i dont feel like it's entirely fair and im overreacting to mild pressure

back to scumhunting

[cassandra]

just be me and hard claim your role and self vote and say that everyone is tunneling you and you must die today so to sheep your legacy despite having 0 votes on yourself spf

[Marmot]

just be me and hard claim your role and self vote and say that everyone is tunneling you and you must die today so to sheep your legacy despite having 0 votes on yourself spf

hardclaim role: check
self vote: check
said everyone is tunneling me: mostly
said I must die today: I've been really tempted, but am trying to maintain a more positive and productive tone

[staypositivefriend]

also i dunno, i still think that marmot is probably town. i can understand the argument for him being a wolf and ive gotten pinged by some of the reasoning in his readslist (particularly in the early game) but he just feels so expressive and heart-on-his-sleeve in a way that is totally diametrically opposed to the one wolf game ive seen from him

[staypositivefriend]

just be me and hard claim your role and self vote and say that everyone is tunneling you and you must die today so to sheep your legacy despite having 0 votes on yourself spf

i should have thought of that!

[Marmot]

okay actually now that i wrote that i dont feel like it's entirely fair and im overreacting to mild pressure

back to scumhunting

I felt better after getting it off my chest too tbh

[cassandra]

ok marmot and dizzy and spf are all town good night

[Esooa]

I don't have many posts, not going to interact with much unless it's very important after this

but tbh another thing giving me pause is that I do typically have a wolf read on Marmot most games, I do genuinely think a lot of what he's done this game is wolfy in ways I normally don't, but like

link wolf games and I'll look at them

Not tonight, I don't know about tomorrow, definitely will have more time day 3 though of this game

This is the only game I'm currently in though so I wanna read and really just wanna post and hate this post cap lmao

[ilario]

I think the bigger problem with me in the ocean game is that I’m too harsh on players I consider to be great players when they don’t have similar reads as me especially if it’s in a way that I struggle to understand, and yeah i acknowledge that’s a problem of mine.

yeah that's another thing we talked about so i get that element, but i just feel like it's a trend specifically for people who have fooled you hard as wolf (SPF, dizzy, katze, anne, esooa, etc) when in reality even good wolves can be read in a similar way to reading anyone else

and also the way you approach reads sometimes is like allowing people who have NEVER fooled you before to fool you then after it happens, never letting it happen again, whereas fmpov i treat everyone equally unless i know they have very polarized ranges or something

can you explain more why you think spf is maf?

also im going to sleep now lol

Ur largely correct in ur second sentence. Ummm I think spf is scummy because I went through jjjs iso and he barely interacts or talks to spf, whereas I feel like if spf was town jjj would make more of an attempt to speak to spf and interact with her in order to mimic their dynamic when they’re tvt where they speak to each other a lot and bounce of ideas, kinda like how me and u play as tvt. Essentially I think her woulda been more pockety towards spf. And he still pops spf in his tr list despite never talking to her. I think she felt a bit frozen at eod yesterday at times, and I don’t like some of her reactions to fosses today.

She’s been too omgus-ish whereas when she’s town she usually tends to shrug it off more. That’s not always the case and there has been games where it gets to her but it usually looks different. There was a point where I changed my tr on her to a sr and her reaction was something like “come on bro you know I’m town” or something. And that’s just a weird reaction imo because me and spf have this dynamic for like the last 5-10 games we’ve been tvt where we alternate on one of ur tr’ing the other whilst the other is more wary. And the person who isn’t being heavily townread is never too bothered by it because we always end up finding each other as town by the end of it anyways so yeah her reaction there was kinda off to me.

[cassandra]

tbh i read through esooa's reads' list and i think it's bad lol

[Marmot]

My perception of my scum meta is I have a hard time making large posts and posting a lot, because I micro-freeze like every other post.

I do feel a bit stifled by the atmosphere of this game in that I don't feel I can be lighter in tone due to the postcap and the roster. I think I've put undue pressure on myself to give this game a ton of effort as a result.


I also had a goal this year to get N1 killed by mafia, which is probably just never gonna happen, but I did approach Day 1 in the hopes it would happen.

[staypositivefriend]

@staypositivefriend What is your read on Lime now?

i think he's town. i think that lime is the type of wolf that's more likely to go with the flow and try to look agreeable/"pro-town" on a surface level, whereas his play here has been individualistic in a way that i found towny. he still hasnt let go of his wolfread on nutella even though most of the thread has moved on from it, and there's a level of conviction behind his posts that i think he would have trouble replicating as a wolf

[ilario]

But yeah I decided to vote mac anyways because I’m thinking about the claim some more and their role makes 0 sense to me. So they’re in a chat, and they have a cop check on each other but once they use the check they become lovers?? What’s the point of that dynamic? Why even have the cop check if they’re essentially gonna be tied together, why not start them out as lovers? Idk feels like something mac coulda come up with to protect himself from being voted. I liked that Mac noticed that towny line from naa but then he won’t on to do nothing with it, so meh that might have just been a pocket attempt from mac.

[Esooa]

tbh i read through esooa's reads' list and i think it's bad lol

I doubt there's literally ever a world that one of the people you decide to just town read for reasons like "SPF known busser helped get a wolf killed," "I feel emotionally sorry for Dizzy so they're town," or whatever, aren't a wolf,

but thanks

Last post tonight but wanted to say

[cassandra]

I think the bigger problem with me in the ocean game is that I’m too harsh on players I consider to be great players when they don’t have similar reads as me especially if it’s in a way that I struggle to understand, and yeah i acknowledge that’s a problem of mine.

yeah that's another thing we talked about so i get that element, but i just feel like it's a trend specifically for people who have fooled you hard as wolf (SPF, dizzy, katze, anne, esooa, etc) when in reality even good wolves can be read in a similar way to reading anyone else

and also the way you approach reads sometimes is like allowing people who have NEVER fooled you before to fool you then after it happens, never letting it happen again, whereas fmpov i treat everyone equally unless i know they have very polarized ranges or something

can you explain more why you think spf is maf?

also im going to sleep now lol

Ur largely correct in ur second sentence. Ummm I think spf is scummy because I went through jjjs iso and he barely interacts or talks to spf, whereas I feel like if spf was town jjj would make more of an attempt to speak to spf and interact with her in order to mimic their dynamic when they’re tvt where they speak to each other a lot and bounce of ideas, kinda like how me and u play as tvt. Essentially I think her woulda been more pockety towards spf. And he still pops spf in his tr list despite never talking to her. I think she felt a bit frozen at eod yesterday at times, and I don’t like some of her reactions to fosses today.

She’s been too omgus-ish whereas when she’s town she usually tends to shrug it off more. That’s not always the case and there has been games where it gets to her but it usually looks different. There was a point where I changed my tr on her to a sr and her reaction was something like “come on bro you know I’m town” or something. And that’s just a weird reaction imo because me and spf have this dynamic for like the last 5-10 games we’ve been tvt where we alternate on one of ur tr’ing the other whilst the other is more wary. And the person who isn’t being heavily townread is never too bothered by it because we always end up finding each other as town by the end of it anyways so yeah her reaction there was kinda off to me.

imo JJJ in general was very distant and did not interact with a lot of people, so i disagree with that - he was not around, engaged enough to "bounce ideas" off of her, also they weren't tvt regardless lmao so like all of this boils down to JJJ not SPF

i've seen SPF be omgus-ish a lot as town actually - yeah she has a lot of weird scummy lines so i know what you mean but these are lines ive grown to associate with her town game when she's less self-aware bc ive mistunneled her for them before. you can't always expect to have the same exact dynamic with her especially (for spf anyway) when it's a different site ive found she acts differently, idkkkkkkkkk this is again a like. im not going to hard shield her all game but these reasons are either unconvincing or things i've mis-read her for before


ok going forward i only have a few posts left so going to save them sorry.

[leetic]

tbh i read through esooa's reads' list and i think it's bad lol

Yeah, there's less hedging than I expected but still way too much hedging

[staypositivefriend]

I think the bigger problem with me in the ocean game is that I’m too harsh on players I consider to be great players when they don’t have similar reads as me especially if it’s in a way that I struggle to understand, and yeah i acknowledge that’s a problem of mine.

yeah that's another thing we talked about so i get that element, but i just feel like it's a trend specifically for people who have fooled you hard as wolf (SPF, dizzy, katze, anne, esooa, etc) when in reality even good wolves can be read in a similar way to reading anyone else

and also the way you approach reads sometimes is like allowing people who have NEVER fooled you before to fool you then after it happens, never letting it happen again, whereas fmpov i treat everyone equally unless i know they have very polarized ranges or something

can you explain more why you think spf is maf?

also im going to sleep now lol

Ur largely correct in ur second sentence. Ummm I think spf is scummy because I went through jjjs iso and he barely interacts or talks to spf, whereas I feel like if spf was town jjj would make more of an attempt to speak to spf and interact with her in order to mimic their dynamic when they’re tvt where they speak to each other a lot and bounce of ideas, kinda like how me and u play as tvt. Essentially I think her woulda been more pockety towards spf. And he still pops spf in his tr list despite never talking to her. I think she felt a bit frozen at eod yesterday at times, and I don’t like some of her reactions to fosses today.

She’s been too omgus-ish whereas when she’s town she usually tends to shrug it off more. That’s not always the case and there has been games where it gets to her but it usually looks different. There was a point where I changed my tr on her to a sr and her reaction was something like “come on bro you know I’m town” or something. And that’s just a weird reaction imo because me and spf have this dynamic for like the last 5-10 games we’ve been tvt where we alternate on one of ur tr’ing the other whilst the other is more wary. And the person who isn’t being heavily townread is never too bothered by it because we always end up finding each other as town by the end of it anyways so yeah her reaction there was kinda off to me.

hold up though, is there anyone in jagged's iso that he spoke to a lot? he was making a ton of individualistic posts without talking to people much at all unless they specifically prompted him, and i'm pretty sure that's because he was frozen throughout most of d1. im p sure that you could apply the same logic you used to scumread me in this post to almost every single living player in this game. also, i think it's obvious that jagged was trying to pocket me/appease me by dropping a somewhat unwarranted townread on me early into the game and then by piggybacking off of my suspicion on MR to vote for him

also youre right that im finding it harder to shrug off suspicion in this game - i dont know if it's because we're on a different website than normal or because im just more stressed out IRL (cause of holidays and all) but i also feel like you should know that i find it much easier to brush off suspicion as a wolf than as town, so the fact that im reacting more strongly shouldnt be scummy to u. and also, you already found me as town on d1 and i felt like you were doubting yourself for bad reasons, which is why i basically went: "dude you already found me as town, just chill" as an attempt to give u a little kick back into sanity

u should be reading me by the content of my posts instead of trying to look for minor meta differences that arent related to my alignment at all

[leetic]

@staypositivefriend What is your read on Lime now?

i think he's town. i think that lime is the type of wolf that's more likely to go with the flow and try to look agreeable/"pro-town" on a surface level, whereas his play here has been individualistic in a way that i found towny. he still hasnt let go of his wolfread on nutella even though most of the thread has moved on from it, and there's a level of conviction behind his posts that i think he would have trouble replicating as a wolf

Why are you townreading nutella?

[Marmot]

Marmot - I've explained this one, already wrote enough in this post. Kinda having doubts about him mostly because of volume, I don't really know how capable he is of that as a wolf, but like, I don't really like the way most of his volume is made anyways tbh. It's all very disconnected, and especially when he explains his previous thoughts they're very empty. Like, when I asked him about the Nutella stuff, he gave very generic reasoning for the posts I quoted... but also didn't mention the thought processes going into some of his posts he made about Nutella around that time that I *didn't* quote

And like, if he's actually going thought his thought processes, it feels weird he wouldn't talk about that? Or just have more going on in general, tbh

also i dunno, i still think that marmot is probably town. i can understand the argument for him being a wolf and ive gotten pinged by some of the reasoning in his readslist (particularly in the early game) but he just feels so expressive and heart-on-his-sleeve in a way that is totally diametrically opposed to the one wolf game ive seen from him

Well, these reads are quite different.

[staypositivefriend]

Not saying that I feel like I'm doing great, cause I'm not. I had a theory about SPF/Lime, cause SPF asked "Why did that post make Lime town" when I town read Lime for a specific post, and that gave me so much scum!Hally vibes, as it's pretty common for "players like that" to question town reads on a teammate just like that. And I also felt SPF was hedgy on Lime from the beginning. However, how Lime has been hard town reading SPF make me think this is not the case, so all this is useless. So yeah, I haven't had a eureka moment, so I'd rather just yell at Ilario.

ive been hedgy about lime? i actually think he's one of the players ive been townreading the most confidently since the beginning of the game. and fwiw i questioned you about that cause i thought it was weird for u to tr lime for that specific post, but i dont remember what the original post was now

[leetic]

I think the bigger problem with me in the ocean game is that I’m too harsh on players I consider to be great players when they don’t have similar reads as me especially if it’s in a way that I struggle to understand, and yeah i acknowledge that’s a problem of mine.

yeah that's another thing we talked about so i get that element, but i just feel like it's a trend specifically for people who have fooled you hard as wolf (SPF, dizzy, katze, anne, esooa, etc) when in reality even good wolves can be read in a similar way to reading anyone else

and also the way you approach reads sometimes is like allowing people who have NEVER fooled you before to fool you then after it happens, never letting it happen again, whereas fmpov i treat everyone equally unless i know they have very polarized ranges or something

can you explain more why you think spf is maf?

also im going to sleep now lol

Ur largely correct in ur second sentence. Ummm I think spf is scummy because I went through jjjs iso and he barely interacts or talks to spf, whereas I feel like if spf was town jjj would make more of an attempt to speak to spf and interact with her in order to mimic their dynamic when they’re tvt where they speak to each other a lot and bounce of ideas, kinda like how me and u play as tvt. Essentially I think her woulda been more pockety towards spf. And he still pops spf in his tr list despite never talking to her. I think she felt a bit frozen at eod yesterday at times, and I don’t like some of her reactions to fosses today.

She’s been too omgus-ish whereas when she’s town she usually tends to shrug it off more. That’s not always the case and there has been games where it gets to her but it usually looks different. There was a point where I changed my tr on her to a sr and her reaction was something like “come on bro you know I’m town” or something. And that’s just a weird reaction imo because me and spf have this dynamic for like the last 5-10 games we’ve been tvt where we alternate on one of ur tr’ing the other whilst the other is more wary. And the person who isn’t being heavily townread is never too bothered by it because we always end up finding each other as town by the end of it anyways so yeah her reaction there was kinda off to me.

hold up though, is there anyone in jagged's iso that he spoke to a lot? he was making a ton of individualistic posts without talking to people much at all unless they specifically prompted him, and i'm pretty sure that's because he was frozen throughout most of d1. im p sure that you could apply the same logic you used to scumread me in this post to almost every single living player in this game. also, i think it's obvious that jagged was trying to pocket me/appease me by dropping a somewhat unwarranted townread on me early into the game and then by piggybacking off of my suspicion on MR to vote for him

also youre right that im finding it harder to shrug off suspicion in this game - i dont know if it's because we're on a different website than normal or because im just more stressed out IRL (cause of holidays and all) but i also feel like you should know that i find it much easier to brush off suspicion as a wolf than as town, so the fact that im reacting more strongly shouldnt be scummy to u. and also, you already found me as town on d1 and i felt like you were doubting yourself for bad reasons, which is why i basically went: "dude you already found me as town, just chill" as an attempt to give u a little kick back into sanity

u should be reading me by the content of my posts instead of trying to look for minor meta differences that arent related to my alignment at all

Mac and Nanook were the only people who Jay interacted with to a large degree and the latter is now dead. Jay's ISO doesn't give us too much to work with because most of it is hedgy gobbledygook, but I find it interesting how comfortable he seemed to be with the thread state in his last few posts.

[staypositivefriend]

okay so, i snapvoted esooa because i read the bottom paragraph of her wallpost and i thought that her positioning looked explicitly like she was trying to wolfside and flip the POE (by having me/marmot as her top 2 foses when i think that marmot is probably just town, and by having dizzy as her third fos when i think dizzy could be town too)

now that ive actually read the wallpost, i think the reasoning is mostly fine and there's some parts of it that i find towny (like her reasoning to tr falcon). her reasoning to wolfread me feels really nitpicky and weak though - like it's obvious that i was saying that the content of drwilgy's posts wasn't AI for him but that his posts still reflected a scum mindset, and i feel like she really had to stretch and misinterpret my posts to frame them in the way that she did. i also dont like that she didnt include any reasons to townread me when i would kind of expect esooa to pick up on some of my towntells as town. i guess the headline is that i overreacted by immediately voting esooa but i think that her current list of scumreads is probably wolf-sided regardless of her alignment

[cassandra]

honestly i'm so confident spf is town im willing to full on brad defend her and waste a post on this. also full disclosure i did not read her last scum game. if you think im maf you can consider this post me spewing spf town

[staypositivefriend]

@staypositivefriend What is your read on Lime now?

i think he's town. i think that lime is the type of wolf that's more likely to go with the flow and try to look agreeable/"pro-town" on a surface level, whereas his play here has been individualistic in a way that i found towny. he still hasnt let go of his wolfread on nutella even though most of the thread has moved on from it, and there's a level of conviction behind his posts that i think he would have trouble replicating as a wolf

Why are you townreading nutella?

i feel like nutella falls into a very specific mindset when she's a wolf where she becomes very timid and self-conscious - there is a distinct sense of discomfort in nutella's wolfgame that usually gets exacerbated with more pressure, but it feels to me that the pressure against nutella in this game lit a bit of a fire under her and led to her becoming more expressive and assertive. i liked her trying to get cassandra to vote anne, i liked her voting for me (not because i liked her specific reasoning but because i think it's very typical for town!nutella to tinfoil me at this stage of the game), and i liked how self-assured she sounded when she reacted to your pressure on her earlier

it's the type of read that i find tough to articulate without defaulting to: "meta/tone", but i will note that nutella is one of the few players that i have literally never misread in a game before. im not saying that i have a godread that i want people to sheep, but i am saying that my track record of reading nutella correctly makes me feel more confident about reading her correctly in this game too

[Esooa]

okay so, i snapvoted esooa because i read the bottom paragraph of her wallpost and i thought that her positioning looked explicitly like she was trying to wolfside and flip the POE (by having me/marmot as her top 2 foses when i think that marmot is probably just town, and by having dizzy as her third fos when i think dizzy could be town too)

now that ive actually read the wallpost, i think the reasoning is mostly fine and there's some parts of it that i find towny (like her reasoning to tr falcon). her reasoning to wolfread me feels really nitpicky and weak though - like it's obvious that i was saying that the content of drwilgy's posts wasn't AI for him but that his posts still reflected a scum mindset, and i feel like she really had to stretch and misinterpret my posts to frame them in the way that she did. i also dont like that she didnt include any reasons to townread me when i would kind of expect esooa to pick up on some of my towntells as town. i guess the headline is that i overreacted by immediately voting esooa but i think that her current list of scumreads is probably wolf-sided regardless of her alignment

Okay--how exactly does like

His posts reflecting a scum mindset not mean the posts are wolf AI

And regardless of all that were you not still wanting to vote him? Because like, you were as far as I know

irt not posting anything for why you're town

I'm not really pushing my reads that much and worded the ending explicitly as who I want to look into more for a reason

Not specifically because I'm town reading you much but more so because I mean

I basically expect exactly these kinds of responses when disagreeing with any kinda consensus in this lobby

I don't really agree that your response to pressure was that towny though, like, individually towny posts in terms of mindset are what made me shift my read off you in the vigi 10er, and I also noted that game you omgus'd by going like "I'm so obvious town" and town read it there, so don't rly agree there

and besides that the post is 2700 words. I cared more by then to get my current opinions out rather than all my thoughts

I think your entrance was probably towny, in that your entrance reads were reasonable+good in volume, and the uwu stuff was probably slightly towny, etc

Regardless I'm most interested in your opinion on the game state in general

And also too the idea that my reads list is wolf-sided, tbh

Alexa's reasons for wolf reading Anne, the top wagon today and for most of today to my recollection, are "nothing that pingy but she isn't explicitly town yet,"

Does that really sound like reasons to kill Anne to you? Or reasons for her to just be there wagoned all day?

I know there are others, but nothing really that inspiring either imo

And in terms of it being wolf-sided

Who are the wolves?

Like, when Alexa posted "I'm just gonna say all of Dizzy SPF Marmot are town and not actually talk about anything cause why not," I looked at the playerlist and assumed they're all town

Who are the wolves?

They're not exactly that easy to find

I think a lot of the consensus towns are town for decent reasons and if you remove the 3 named above, you're already basically out of names

Like c'mon lol

[iaafr]

notanaxehole has been people pleasing yet extremely opportunistic with finding reasons to scumread any apparent viable miss in the gamestate. this has shifted from esooa/wilgy early in the day, to spf, to marmot. none of these are organic, all of these are in lockstep with actual town players expressing suspicion on those slots.

his progression on anne is handwavey and nonsensical. his aim while in the thread is to keep discussion on scumreading and scumcasing viable misses. he is lock scum.

@ilario you flipped off your good naa scumread btw




macdougall has still not made a decent scumread this day. his scumread on me sucks and is the kind of confbias that doesn't arise naturally in the way it did. there's no fire, there's no apparent readiness to find me if town and follow up on crushing scum together. he played his way into having a scumread that looked decent on surface level existing in the thread, and farted a bunch, and dipped.

lock scum.




anne

idk she's probably playing fine and i'd probably townread her if not for like, extreme apparent demotivation and gamestate stuff, as well as reads and metareads from other people, but she still makes sense on multiple levels as the third maf. the reasons to townread her by lime coke and ilario feel questionable, weak, she's posting fine but there's no bite or force, her participation feels obligatory, and while she's gotten demoralized in a town game i've been with her in before (champs but different) the nature of how she got demoralized was different and her d1 play still felt different. idk. i could see myself being wrong here, but i still kill this before any of

my obvtown reads: spf, cassandra, marmot, nutella, lime coke, ilario/leetic, dyslexicon, drwilgy, esooa, falcon

whoops i just named every other slot. so yea anne is lock scum too.


same exact poe as cassandra's mid day poe, same poe as dizzy's with esooa replaced w/ i forget who, similar to spf's

we're forming a consensus townblock with consensus reads but we're sick and right and it's not a sign of a bad gamestate that this is happening



stop townreading anne, your association and gamestate reads suck, her team couldn't do anything about her being wagoned, some distancing was necessary for wolf wincon so jay parking doesnt clear her either, kill her.

stop townreading mac, even if he managed to produce 1 sort of towny page, it's a page where he scumreads me and gets stuck on it, kill him

stop townreading notanaxehole, all of his shifts are opportunistic and are there to be in sync with your bad scumreads and make u feel good about them. his marmot scumread sounds good but is just a meta comparison that marmot's already pointed out the lack of validity of. his spf scumread i still don't even get. blah blah etc kill him.


stop scumreading nutella, all her thoughts samebrained with me to some extent except for randomly tinfoiling alexa/lc on bong rips, the nature of how she was wrong on jay was the uninformed version, scum nutella is a lot more awkward and probably doesn't even come up with scumreading town alexa/lc as an option in this game from TMI perspective; she's just town.

stop scumreading esooa, she's obvtowning via perspective and wants a more interesting world than the ez world, but all of her reads are just from uninformed perspective and i don't think she ever resorts to a full readslist, like, that's just not the scum esooa version, she'd sweet talk the town into townreading her with less words than that.

stop scumreading marmot, he's a fuzzy wittle wascal

stop scumreading spf, she's really extremely gay, like, trust-tell levels of being gay here (legal disclaimer: not a serious accusation of a trust tell)





think that about covers it

also fuck the police 101/100 (gonna shut up till eod tho)

[cassandra]

esooa i think your reads on anne and mac specifically are bad/wrong. they're both wolfy as fuck

obligatory "if you're town" :wowee:

[leetic]

Who does JaggedJimmyJay want to eliminate today?

If the day ended in five seconds I'd vote NAA for boring snap reads. I'm in no hurry though.

We both know this is a lie

To the people who know Axehole better than I: Would he really say this if he was partnered with Jay?

[staypositivefriend]

okay so, i snapvoted esooa because i read the bottom paragraph of her wallpost and i thought that her positioning looked explicitly like she was trying to wolfside and flip the POE (by having me/marmot as her top 2 foses when i think that marmot is probably just town, and by having dizzy as her third fos when i think dizzy could be town too)

now that ive actually read the wallpost, i think the reasoning is mostly fine and there's some parts of it that i find towny (like her reasoning to tr falcon). her reasoning to wolfread me feels really nitpicky and weak though - like it's obvious that i was saying that the content of drwilgy's posts wasn't AI for him but that his posts still reflected a scum mindset, and i feel like she really had to stretch and misinterpret my posts to frame them in the way that she did. i also dont like that she didnt include any reasons to townread me when i would kind of expect esooa to pick up on some of my towntells as town. i guess the headline is that i overreacted by immediately voting esooa but i think that her current list of scumreads is probably wolf-sided regardless of her alignment

Okay--how exactly does like

His posts reflecting a scum mindset not mean the posts are wolf AI

And regardless of all that were you not still wanting to vote him? Because like, you were as far as I know

irt not posting anything for why you're town

I'm not really pushing my reads that much and worded the ending explicitly as who I want to look into more for a reason

Not specifically because I'm town reading you much but more so because I mean

I basically expect exactly these kinds of responses when disagreeing with any kinda consensus in this lobby

I don't really agree that your response to pressure was that towny though, like, individually towny posts in terms of mindset are what made me shift my read off you in the vigi 10er, and I also noted that game you omgus'd by going like "I'm so obvious town" and town read it there, so don't rly agree there

and besides that the post is 2700 words. I cared more by then to get my current opinions out rather than all my thoughts

I think your entrance was probably towny, in that your entrance reads were reasonable+good in volume, and the uwu stuff was probably slightly towny, etc

Regardless I'm most interested in your opinion on the game state in general

And also too the idea that my reads list is wolf-sided, tbh

Alexa's reasons for wolf reading Anne, the top wagon today and for most of today to my recollection, are "nothing that pingy but she isn't explicitly town yet,"

Does that really sound like reasons to kill Anne to you? Or reasons for her to just be there wagoned all day?

I know there are others, but nothing really that inspiring either imo

And in terms of it being wolf-sided

Who are the wolves?

Like, when Alexa posted "I'm just gonna say all of Dizzy SPF Marmot are town and not actually talk about anything cause why not," I looked at the playerlist and assumed they're all town

Who are the wolves?

They're not exactly that easy to find

I think a lot of the consensus towns are town for decent reasons and if you remove the 3 named above, you're already basically out of names

Like c'mon lol

this post has so many paragraphs but ill do my best to respond to your main questions lol

it's important to note that drwilgy was posting with a strange and borderline unreadable gimmick throughout d1 that made his posts extremely difficult to parse. i had no idea what he was trying to communicate 99% of the time, and i think that everyone else in the game was in the same boat. so, when i said that i didn't get anything alignment indicative out of drwilgy's posts but that i thought his level of activity was alignment indicative, i think it was clear in context that i was making a reference to how unreadable his posts were. i just find it kinda hard to believe that you see this as a legitimate point against me, cause it's so nitpicky and it plays with semantics in a way that i feel like you usually avoid as town

i dunno who said that my self-defensive posts are my most towny posts, but if they did, then i disagree. there are lots of better and more nuanced reasons to townread me, and i feel like you in particular are very good at finding those "micro moments" where i do stuff that i dont usually do as a wolf, and i was kinda expecting you to pick up on some of those things in this game if u were town too, which played into my concern about your initial read on me just being a list of reasons to find me wolfy

also no, i dont think that anne should be scumread for "not being explicitly town yet", but that isn't really why i'm worried about anne. i'm worried about anne because the posts that she made throughout today felt uncharacteristically tonally stiff and like she was struggling to fully articulate herself (which is kinda how i felt about you earlier today), and because im worried that her lack of interest in the game comes from her being a demotivated wolf that doesn't feel like putting in the effort if her team is already being widely POE'd. it was hard for me to come up with specific reasons to scumread anne, so i can acknowledge that the case against her might be a little weak and based moreso on a "lack" of towntells, but i do think some of the stuff she's done in this game is arguably wolf-indicative for her

and well, i think that cassandra, lime coke, marmot nutella, and illario/leetic are all villagers. im fine with solving from the assumption with all of those names are town. from there, i think iaafr has been fairly towny today and that falcon is likely town as well. that leaves dizzy/anne/wilgy/mac/NAA/you, and while i am doubtful that the full scumteam is in that list, i do think that it contains a couple of wolves. i think that dizzy/wilgy have been p towny today out of the names in that POE, so i think there's at least one wolf in anne/mac/NAA/you

so i dunno, i dont find it difficult to craft a POE or come up with potential wolves in this game at all, and i think that your wolflist is "wolfsiding" because at least 2/3 of the names are town, but very possibly 3

[leetic]

Y'all are disappointing me. With so many of you looking good after the EoD flip, there is no reason for town to be disorganized. Seriously, Wilgy is more on point than most of you today

Like why is anne even being considered as an option after last EoD? Out of Wilgy, Axehole, and MR (the lattermost known town) Jay said he would most want anne to die. I think a lot of you are also to quick to townread nutella for "vibes" when her EoD looks really bad, making a comment about being fine with the Jay vote without switching her vote in a way that just seems noncommittal, like she didn't want to look bad but still hoped for the possibility of anne going down. And people are now suspecting Marmot because god knows why, while Dyslexicon whose main action today was disrupting the town core is being given a free pass.

Really, this isn't going to be any easier for us as the days go on as we'll lose more active players, while we still need to vote out three wolves. But I'm running out of posts fast, so I hope you can all get your shit together by EoD. Seriously, last EoD was so good, there is no excuse for us to be in such a mess right now.

[staypositivefriend]

i also find it kinda odd that you say mac usually tries to make himself get townread as a wolf by doing "off the cuff" stuff, and then note in the same paragraph that you townread the "spontaneity" of his wolfread on iaafr. isnt that exactly what youre arguing he would try to do as a wolf? this might be nitpicky but i dont really understand ur read on mac and it seems like the least fleshed out read in ur whole readslist, which kinda surprises me given (to my memory) you usually really like trying to sort out mac in games like this

[staypositivefriend]

Y'all are disappointing me. With so many of you looking good after the EoD flip, there is no reason for town to be disorganized. Seriously, Wilgy is more on point than most of you today

Like why is anne even being considered as an option after last EoD? Out of Wilgy, Axehole, and MR (the lattermost known town) Jay said he would most want anne to die. I think a lot of you are also to quick to townread nutella for "vibes" when her EoD looks really bad, making a comment about being fine with the Jay vote without switching her vote in a way that just seems noncommittal, like she didn't want to look bad but still hoped for the possibility of anne going down. And people are now suspecting Marmot because god knows why, while Dyslexicon whose main action today was disrupting the town core is being given a free pass.

Really, this isn't going to be any easier for us as the days go on as we'll lose more active players, while we still need to vote out three wolves. But I'm running out of posts fast, so I hope you can all get your shit together by EoD. Seriously, last EoD was so good, there is no excuse for us to be in such a mess right now.

i agree that it's likely we are overcomplicating this game at a point when it does not need to be overcomplicated

[cassandra]

i want to say "i'm a huge reason last EOD was good so please give me a bit more respect" but realize that could end badly today

if i decide anne is town, i'll vote elsewhere. for now, i don't fos her for her investment. i fos her for her actual posting. the beginning psots were performative, she has a few good ones where she agrees w/my reads/POE, but then it snaps back to performative, and she has no interest in solving the game. even when v!anne has no interest in solving the game, she has some small towntells: for example, the fact she hasn't claimed anything about her role despite suspicion on her is a SCUMTELL for her like strongly, and yes i know its optimal play if its town but we are very similar in this way so her claiming nothing (and also like making a big deal about roles being randed before alignment) is a salty wolf scumtell for her

[staypositivefriend]

i'm about to sign off for the night, so ask me any burning questions right now if you have them. im going to be traveling tomorrow so im not sure how much ill be able to post between now and the EOD

[leetic]

i want to say "i'm a huge reason last EOD was good so please give me a bit more respect" but realize that could end badly today

if i decide anne is town, i'll vote elsewhere. for now, i don't fos her for her investment. i fos her for her actual posting. the beginning psots were performative, she has a few good ones where she agrees w/my reads/POE, but then it snaps back to performative, and she has no interest in solving the game. even when v!anne has no interest in solving the game, she has some small towntells: for example, the fact she hasn't claimed anything about her role despite suspicion on her is a SCUMTELL for her like strongly, and yes i know its optimal play if its town but we are very similar in this way so her claiming nothing (and also like making a big deal about roles being randed before alignment) is a salty wolf scumtell for her

What do you make of the EoD actions though if anne is scum? Game events are a much more reliable way of reading people than what you posted

[staypositivefriend]

[VOTE: NAA] aubergine

[Esooa]

i also find it kinda odd that you say mac usually tries to make himself get townread as a wolf by doing "off the cuff" stuff, and then note in the same paragraph that you townread the "spontaneity" of his wolfread on iaafr. isnt that exactly what youre arguing he would try to do as a wolf? this might be nitpicky but i dont really understand ur read on mac and it seems like the least fleshed out read in ur whole readslist, which kinda surprises me given (to my memory) you usually really like trying to sort out mac in games like this

I'm going to use another post because I can't help myself, responding to SPF

I guess I get what you mean about the Wilgy stuff, I mean, the specific idea that "Wilgy's posts individually were NAI but I was reading into his overall playstyle," but don't really think that's how the post comes across in how it's said

That could be partially though cause I realize now I mostly skimmed Wilgy day 1 and honestly got nothing out of his day 1 posts myself lmao, most my read on him was based on day 2. The words he was using were rly annoying to try to understand

So yeah to that

Your posts about Anne like, I mean I was being overly simplistic in the writing of it, but still, you say yourself that the reasons to wolf read her aren't like... thattt great. But she's been a wagon all day

That's also including I'm reminded that like

Both mason are defending her

And people just aren't biting

if you're town I'm probably not picking up stuff cause most this game has been played from me from behind

Both literally and figuratively in the sense that I had to backread an entire day before having the full context (while I've been kinda busy with work), and also just that I've been pretty annoyingly PoE'd because of the existence of an.. 11 poster

Who like, shouldn't even matter at this point

I mean, there's also just random dumb stuff like leetic getting angy I don't have a 100% solid list with exactly 3 wolves and everyone else town or whatever

In regards to the Mac stuff, what I mean by off the cuff posting is just like his typical snap read kinda things. Going "this person is mafia for this" and just saying random stuff

I usually read him by like, if I think he's just saying bullshit or if I actually like his snap reads

But this game my point is, he's doing none of that, and why not? imo as a wolf he wouldn't like, deter from acting like typical town!mac because what does that gain him here in terms of town reads? Is that really the best way to help his position? I don't think so,

And instead, he dropped a case, that I call spontaneous because there was a lot to it, it didn't seem to me to be something he just randomly posted. Like he had the thoughts before, and decided to post them then. So what I like about it isn't the similarities to the 'off the cuff' stuff, but the fact he had thoughts brewing that he didn't really feel the direct need to talk about. Similar to the stuff with his lovers chat, too.

hopefully explained that stuff well, but I'm kinda exhausted of writing all these larger posts after reading like 1000 posts lol

That being said though I mean, iaafr could just be right I'm being dumb about the game in general so idk

Kill who ever you want ig lol, my larger concern rly is just that like, I really doubt people's PoE's are actually solid and seems to be a lot of aversion to actually considering that the people in it might be town

meh

[leetic]

These people are, as far as I am concerned, lock town:
ilario
cassandra
Lime Coke
Marmot

These people I also won't consider voting unless something changes:
anne (unless Wilgy and Axehole flip bad)
falcon45ca (unless Mac flips bad)

The following people I consider to be most likely town, but there's nothing that lock clears them:
MacDougall
iaafr
staypositivefriend

I think they're town for now, but realize they can still be bad:
NotAnAxehole
DrWilgy

People I would feel most comfortable voting:
Dyslexicon
Esooa
nutella

[staypositivefriend]

i really like that post from esooa, i think

[MacDougall]

i dont think i even express that townread as scum

or if i do i express it with a ton more reservation so that my agendaed turn on you looks more believable

You have no choice but to townread her because I am townreading her and you will never get her mischopped while I am... case in point you were accutely aware of my read because you horse collared me for saying "neat" when Wilgy unvoted me. You're hyper vigilant in this game but acting memey and aloof and that's a scumtell for anyone good at mafia.

Your today has been characterised by transparent pocketing and TMI of nutella's slot, TMI of the fact that Falcon and I are lovers, and capitalising on bad reason for scumreading me.

The Mac wagon has been nothing but omgus from jump. SPF started it because I voted her. Shit reason. Then Lime Coke sheeped because he's a simp. There was never enough meat on that bone for you to go from townreading me to locking me in a POE world of three with NAA and Anne. You are better than that.

given the mafia got alerted when i checked falcon there's guaranteed to be a mafia voting me with the way that I was playing because they know it's 2 for the price of 1

first 2 quotes are decently towny tho

wdym about mafia being alerted? how do you know that?

it's part of the dumb fuck role

[MacDougall]

I'm going to sum up Marmot's town game in a sentence, and yall can judge if this game is in line with that:

"I'll be back tonight, don't burn the house down till I get back"

Naturally, I grab the matches as soon as I hear that, but this Marmot is completely different and seems to feel the need to demonstrate their investment in the game at every turn, not only that, but their cases have been far more extensive than I've ever seen from town!marmot in terms of regular elaboration.

damn that's a pretty fucken insightful read bro lol

wow me and mac melding might mean he isnt maf lol

mac if ur town theres always a maf in dizzy or spf and i expect u to be able to figure out which after ive narrowed it down so much for you

can u tl;dr why

[MacDougall]

esooa i think your reads on anne and mac specifically are bad/wrong. they're both wolfy as fuck

obligatory "if you're town" :wowee:

counterpoint ... I'm town and you're tunneling

[MacDougall]

[VOTE: Mac] aubergine

peepeepoopoo

[VOTE: dyslexicon] aubergine

poopoopeepee

[DrWilgy]

if dyslexicon doesnt give us the full scumteam within the next 10 minutes then he should be killed immediately

Good take

[Dyslexicon]

Was thinking last night that my Mac vote sucks and I should sheep Calexa or get caught up.

[Dyslexicon]

[VOTE: Mac] aubergine

peepeepoopoo

[VOTE: dyslexicon] aubergine

poopoopeepee

Topical

[Dyslexicon]

Was thinking last night that my Mac vote sucks and I should sheep Calexa or get caught up.

This because I don’t think Jimmay handles Mac that way as teammates

[Dyslexicon]

Calexa, my vote is yours if I don’t get caught up. Power

[falcon45ca]

Ya know, Dizzy and I scummed together not too long ago and won. While we've played with each other before (...does that sound weird?...nah) I feel it was the first time we kinda got to know each other a bit.


The next game we played, we were both town I believe. I don't think it was on this site, maybe MafiaCafe? Dizzy had a healthy uncertainty/paranoia on my slot, which is normal and to be expected I'd say after a successful Maf campaign together.


I'm not getting any sense of that here. Not even a whiff. It's like he's content to leave my slot well the fuxk alone, which I find strange.