Team Fortress Mafia [END]

[Dyslexicon]

I think it’s best if mafia role claim, but town doesn’t.

[Seanzie]

There's a time and place for mech talk.

However I don't want to be starting with it because it's easy for scum to hide behind.

Day 0 is legit when to talk setup mech? Like in open setups if there is a plan town should follow, y'all need to be on board D1.

But yeah, I agree it can be easy to just talk mech, and the more I think about it, the more I think my suggestion just doesn't have merit, so I'm okay dropping the mech talk at this point.

[Seanzie]

Also don't see why a claim swap would happen?

If one goes down the other would go down

Claimswaps can happen late game when the remaining mafia members hope to win with both people involved alive.

Granted, I do concede that it is probably not super likely to happen.

What's not super likely? That Maf use claim swaps late game, or that Maf have multiple members alive late game?


Sean is in my sus pile

Well hopefully both, but I was talking specifically about how it is probably not likely that a situation where it might make sense for mafia to claimswap happens.

[DrWilgy]

Mhf mphreh mhrphd

This is like your GIF gimmick, tho less comprehensible

Mrumhuhm

[falcon45ca]

Also don't see why a claim swap would happen?

If one goes down the other would go down

Claimswaps can happen late game when the remaining mafia members hope to win with both people involved alive.

Granted, I do concede that it is probably not super likely to happen.

What's not super likely? That Maf use claim swaps late game, or that Maf have multiple members alive late game?


Sean is in my sus pile

Well hopefully both, but I was talking specifically about how it is probably not likely that a situation where it might make sense for mafia to claimswap happens.

Still strikes me as an odd topic of discussion at this stage, but I'm not the conversation police, so you do you I s'pose.



Your explanation does not remove you from my sus pile BTW

[Seanzie]

Also don't see why a claim swap would happen?

If one goes down the other would go down

Claimswaps can happen late game when the remaining mafia members hope to win with both people involved alive.

Granted, I do concede that it is probably not super likely to happen.

What's not super likely? That Maf use claim swaps late game, or that Maf have multiple members alive late game?


Sean is in my sus pile

Well hopefully both, but I was talking specifically about how it is probably not likely that a situation where it might make sense for mafia to claimswap happens.

Still strikes me as an odd topic of discussion at this stage, but I'm not the conversation police, so you do you I s'pose.



Your explanation does not remove you from my sus pile BTW

I mean, when else should you talk about a game-long gameplan other than the beginning of the game?

And that's fine, sus me all you want.

[Seanzie]

So looking back, I think Linearpoint and Mac are >rand!mafia, but that second one might be mildly fueled by OMGUS.

[falcon45ca]

Also don't see why a claim swap would happen?

If one goes down the other would go down

Claimswaps can happen late game when the remaining mafia members hope to win with both people involved alive.

Granted, I do concede that it is probably not super likely to happen.

What's not super likely? That Maf use claim swaps late game, or that Maf have multiple members alive late game?


Sean is in my sus pile

Well hopefully both, but I was talking specifically about how it is probably not likely that a situation where it might make sense for mafia to claimswap happens.

Still strikes me as an odd topic of discussion at this stage, but I'm not the conversation police, so you do you I s'pose.



Your explanation does not remove you from my sus pile BTW

I mean, when else should you talk about a game-long gameplan other than the beginning of the game?

And that's fine, sus me all you want.

There are so many variables, that I feel game long planning this early in a game this size is a bit like shoveling snow in a blizzard

[Seanzie]

Also don't see why a claim swap would happen?

If one goes down the other would go down

Claimswaps can happen late game when the remaining mafia members hope to win with both people involved alive.

Granted, I do concede that it is probably not super likely to happen.

What's not super likely? That Maf use claim swaps late game, or that Maf have multiple members alive late game?


Sean is in my sus pile

Well hopefully both, but I was talking specifically about how it is probably not likely that a situation where it might make sense for mafia to claimswap happens.

Still strikes me as an odd topic of discussion at this stage, but I'm not the conversation police, so you do you I s'pose.



Your explanation does not remove you from my sus pile BTW

I mean, when else should you talk about a game-long gameplan other than the beginning of the game?

And that's fine, sus me all you want.

There are so many variables, that I feel game long planning this early in a game this size is a bit like shoveling snow in a blizzard

I mean not really game related, but I'm kinda guessing from this comment you don't live in the north? Shoveling snow during a blizzard is actually a good idea as long as it isn't dangerous outside. It is a lot easier to shovel 6 inches of snow 4 times than it is to shovel 2 feet of snow once, so shoveling during a blizzard can be super helpful.

[falcon45ca]

Claimswaps can happen late game when the remaining mafia members hope to win with both people involved alive.

Granted, I do concede that it is probably not super likely to happen.

What's not super likely? That Maf use claim swaps late game, or that Maf have multiple members alive late game?


Sean is in my sus pile

Well hopefully both, but I was talking specifically about how it is probably not likely that a situation where it might make sense for mafia to claimswap happens.

Still strikes me as an odd topic of discussion at this stage, but I'm not the conversation police, so you do you I s'pose.



Your explanation does not remove you from my sus pile BTW

I mean, when else should you talk about a game-long gameplan other than the beginning of the game?

And that's fine, sus me all you want.

There are so many variables, that I feel game long planning this early in a game this size is a bit like shoveling snow in a blizzard

I mean not really game related, but I'm kinda guessing from this comment you don't live in the north? Shoveling snow during a blizzard is actually a good idea as long as it isn't dangerous outside. It is a lot easier to shovel 6 inches of snow 4 times than it is to shovel 2 feet of snow once, so shoveling during a blizzard can be super helpful.

Honestly, I'd be surprised if there are many on Syndicate is as North as I am. It's -25C outside right now

[falcon45ca]

It's more just a folksy wisdom comment, you're right. Shoveling snow in a blizzard is better than doing it all afterward the storm is done.

[Seanzie]

What's not super likely? That Maf use claim swaps late game, or that Maf have multiple members alive late game?


Sean is in my sus pile

Well hopefully both, but I was talking specifically about how it is probably not likely that a situation where it might make sense for mafia to claimswap happens.

Still strikes me as an odd topic of discussion at this stage, but I'm not the conversation police, so you do you I s'pose.



Your explanation does not remove you from my sus pile BTW

I mean, when else should you talk about a game-long gameplan other than the beginning of the game?

And that's fine, sus me all you want.

There are so many variables, that I feel game long planning this early in a game this size is a bit like shoveling snow in a blizzard

I mean not really game related, but I'm kinda guessing from this comment you don't live in the north? Shoveling snow during a blizzard is actually a good idea as long as it isn't dangerous outside. It is a lot easier to shovel 6 inches of snow 4 times than it is to shovel 2 feet of snow once, so shoveling during a blizzard can be super helpful.

Honestly, I'd be surprised if there are many on Syndicate is as North as I am. It's -25C outside right now

Well, I was wrong then.

[sig]

I was very prepared to come in and complain about how there are ten pages and ppl need to post less. Instead I'll complain that there are two pages and yall need to post more

[sig]

So looking back, I think Linearpoint and Mac are >rand!mafia, but that second one might be mildly fueled by OMGUS.

why?

[sig]

I think it’s best if mafia role claim, but town doesn’t.

this right here is peak town. solid green, ride and die, will sheep for first ten days.

[Seanzie]

So looking back, I think Linearpoint and Mac are >rand!mafia, but that second one might be mildly fueled by OMGUS.

why?

Linearpoint's first post is the sort of first post that I like to make as scum (I always find the first post the hardest, after getting the first post out of the way, it is much easier to continue. Sometimes I even specifically try to "first" specifically to get the first post out of the way), and while this is not scum-indicative necessarily, it is scum-compatible. Then as others have mentioned, sometimes scum likes to mech-talk to hide, and their posts in regards to my team-claim suggestion feel the most likely to be coming from scum trying to look helpful in a mech discussion.

As for Mac, he called me mafia, so he must be mafia.

[Guillotine]

Oh shit i forgot this game started

Hello

[Guillotine]

So I briefly considered if it might be good for us to massclaim our colors D1.

Benefits: reduces scums ability to do claimswaps, and also reduces the ability for scum to vague claim (i.e. if they are vaguely hinting at something that sounds a whole lot like your ability, and they're the same color as you, that's clearly sus).

Drawbacks: Could lead to scum being able to guess certain townies roles easier once the game goes on and a few people from own of the colors has flipped.

I didn't actually come to a conclusion on if I think we should or not though, so uhh... thoughts?

No, Im sure with all roles being known there gotta be some sort of anti-claim mechanic so hard pass.

[Guillotine]

I think it’s best if mafia role claim, but town doesn’t.

this right here is peak town. solid green, ride and die, will sheep for first ten days.

This guy is mafia

[Guillotine]

[VOTE: sig] aubergine

[Guillotine]

And that’s it. Nice catch up!

[Seanzie]

So I briefly considered if it might be good for us to massclaim our colors D1.

Benefits: reduces scums ability to do claimswaps, and also reduces the ability for scum to vague claim (i.e. if they are vaguely hinting at something that sounds a whole lot like your ability, and they're the same color as you, that's clearly sus).

Drawbacks: Could lead to scum being able to guess certain townies roles easier once the game goes on and a few people from own of the colors has flipped.

I didn't actually come to a conclusion on if I think we should or not though, so uhh... thoughts?

No, Im sure with all roles being known there gotta be some sort of anti-claim mechanic so hard pass.

It's an open setup, so there is no hidden anti-claim mechanic.

Either way though, I've come around to thinking it is not a good idea to claim colors.

[DrWilgy]

So looking back, I think Linearpoint and Mac are >rand!mafia, but that second one might be mildly fueled by OMGUS.

Mnph mnphs

[VOTE: MhMhnph] aubergine

[Guillotine]

So I briefly considered if it might be good for us to massclaim our colors D1.

Benefits: reduces scums ability to do claimswaps, and also reduces the ability for scum to vague claim (i.e. if they are vaguely hinting at something that sounds a whole lot like your ability, and they're the same color as you, that's clearly sus).

Drawbacks: Could lead to scum being able to guess certain townies roles easier once the game goes on and a few people from own of the colors has flipped.

I didn't actually come to a conclusion on if I think we should or not though, so uhh... thoughts?

No, Im sure with all roles being known there gotta be some sort of anti-claim mechanic so hard pass.

It's an open setup, so there is no hidden anti-claim mechanic.

Either way though, I've come around to thinking it is not a good idea to claim colors.

Why not? Im green, how about you?

[Dragon D. Luffy]

It has been brought up so I'll clarify. When I said the Heavy "protects" people from vote, it means he punishes people who vote for the person he is "protecting". He doesn't actually remove votes from anyone.

It goes like this:

Player A votes for Player B.
Heavy uses Sasha to protect Player B.
Player B gets +1 vote, Player A gets +1 vote.

It Heavy uses Natascha instead, the effect is more powerful, but at a cost for the heavy himself:

Player A votes for Player B.
Heavy uses Natascha to protect Player B.
Player B gets +1 vote, Player A gets +2 votes, all votes on Heavy are doubled.

Also, like I mentioned in rules, this ability only considers the state of the poll after it locks, as in, if the vote on Player B wasn't changed before the day end. I'm going to come here at the end of the day and look at the final poll, I don't care what happened before.

You may notice most of the classes have two abilities that are variations of each other. This is because you have to choose one ability to use each night, so there's usually a risk-reward thing going on between the abilities.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

The above goes for all effects that deal with votes: the Pyro, the Sniper, the Spy and any other I may have forgotten. As far as I'm concerned, if it wasn't in the final poll after lockdown, it didn't happen.

[sig]

So looking back, I think Linearpoint and Mac are >rand!mafia, but that second one might be mildly fueled by OMGUS.

why?

Linearpoint's first post is the sort of first post that I like to make as scum (I always find the first post the hardest, after getting the first post out of the way, it is much easier to continue. Sometimes I even specifically try to "first" specifically to get the first post out of the way), and while this is not scum-indicative necessarily, it is scum-compatible. Then as others have mentioned, sometimes scum likes to mech-talk to hide, and their posts in regards to my team-claim suggestion feel the most likely to be coming from scum trying to look helpful in a mech discussion.

As for Mac, he called me mafia, so he must be mafia.

Okay I'm not sure I see it, buuuuuuut not really being series yet.

Mac i'll be able to tell if he's mafia by like day 2/3. Though if i get NK'd before then he 100% should be lynched since always kills me when he's mafia.

[sig]

[VOTE: sig] aubergine

pssst its D0 we can't vote yet.

[Seanzie]

So I briefly considered if it might be good for us to massclaim our colors D1.

Benefits: reduces scums ability to do claimswaps, and also reduces the ability for scum to vague claim (i.e. if they are vaguely hinting at something that sounds a whole lot like your ability, and they're the same color as you, that's clearly sus).

Drawbacks: Could lead to scum being able to guess certain townies roles easier once the game goes on and a few people from own of the colors has flipped.

I didn't actually come to a conclusion on if I think we should or not though, so uhh... thoughts?

No, Im sure with all roles being known there gotta be some sort of anti-claim mechanic so hard pass.

It's an open setup, so there is no hidden anti-claim mechanic.

Either way though, I've come around to thinking it is not a good idea to claim colors.

Why not? Im green, how about you?

Please read the posts in thread, as this had already been discussed. Clearly I'm not talking about town vs mafia here when I talk of colors.

[falcon45ca]

So I briefly considered if it might be good for us to massclaim our colors D1.

Benefits: reduces scums ability to do claimswaps, and also reduces the ability for scum to vague claim (i.e. if they are vaguely hinting at something that sounds a whole lot like your ability, and they're the same color as you, that's clearly sus).

Drawbacks: Could lead to scum being able to guess certain townies roles easier once the game goes on and a few people from own of the colors has flipped.

I didn't actually come to a conclusion on if I think we should or not though, so uhh... thoughts?

No, Im sure with all roles being known there gotta be some sort of anti-claim mechanic so hard pass.

It's an open setup, so there is no hidden anti-claim mechanic.

Either way though, I've come around to thinking it is not a good idea to claim colors.

Why not? Im green, how about you?

Derp clear denied

[falcon45ca]

[VOTE: sig] aubergine

pssst its D0 we can't vote yet.

They're thinking outside the box

[sig]

So I briefly considered if it might be good for us to massclaim our colors D1.

Benefits: reduces scums ability to do claimswaps, and also reduces the ability for scum to vague claim (i.e. if they are vaguely hinting at something that sounds a whole lot like your ability, and they're the same color as you, that's clearly sus).

Drawbacks: Could lead to scum being able to guess certain townies roles easier once the game goes on and a few people from own of the colors has flipped.

I didn't actually come to a conclusion on if I think we should or not though, so uhh... thoughts?

No, Im sure with all roles being known there gotta be some sort of anti-claim mechanic so hard pass.

It's an open setup, so there is no hidden anti-claim mechanic.

Either way though, I've come around to thinking it is not a good idea to claim colors.

Why not? Im green, how about you?

Is this a 3P slip? Since aren't the colors red and blue, I"d assume any sneaky 3p would a third color.

[Guillotine]

So I briefly considered if it might be good for us to massclaim our colors D1.

Benefits: reduces scums ability to do claimswaps, and also reduces the ability for scum to vague claim (i.e. if they are vaguely hinting at something that sounds a whole lot like your ability, and they're the same color as you, that's clearly sus).

Drawbacks: Could lead to scum being able to guess certain townies roles easier once the game goes on and a few people from own of the colors has flipped.

I didn't actually come to a conclusion on if I think we should or not though, so uhh... thoughts?

No, Im sure with all roles being known there gotta be some sort of anti-claim mechanic so hard pass.

It's an open setup, so there is no hidden anti-claim mechanic.

Either way though, I've come around to thinking it is not a good idea to claim colors.

Why not? Im green, how about you?

Is this a 3P slip? Since aren't the colors red and blue, I"d assume any sneaky 3p would a third color.

It's a absolutely a 3P slip.

[Guillotine]

Where is the set up? I thought i could find it in the OP.

[Guillotine]

Sig is hardcore obvious scum and im tunneling to their slow and painful death.

[Guillotine]

So I briefly considered if it might be good for us to massclaim our colors D1.

Benefits: reduces scums ability to do claimswaps, and also reduces the ability for scum to vague claim (i.e. if they are vaguely hinting at something that sounds a whole lot like your ability, and they're the same color as you, that's clearly sus).

Drawbacks: Could lead to scum being able to guess certain townies roles easier once the game goes on and a few people from own of the colors has flipped.

I didn't actually come to a conclusion on if I think we should or not though, so uhh... thoughts?

No, Im sure with all roles being known there gotta be some sort of anti-claim mechanic so hard pass.

It's an open setup, so there is no hidden anti-claim mechanic.

Either way though, I've come around to thinking it is not a good idea to claim colors.

Why not? Im green, how about you?

Derp clear denied

Fair, i could easily fake it as scum.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Where is the set up? I thought i could find it in the OP.

Post #2.

[sig]

Sig is hardcore obvious scum and im tunneling to their slow and painful death.

[LinearPoint]

So looking back, I think Linearpoint and Mac are >rand!mafia, but that second one might be mildly fueled by OMGUS.

why?

Linearpoint's first post is the sort of first post that I like to make as scum (I always find the first post the hardest, after getting the first post out of the way, it is much easier to continue. Sometimes I even specifically try to "first" specifically to get the first post out of the way), and while this is not scum-indicative necessarily, it is scum-compatible. Then as others have mentioned, sometimes scum likes to mech-talk to hide, and their posts in regards to my team-claim suggestion feel the most likely to be coming from scum trying to look helpful in a mech discussion.

As for Mac, he called me mafia, so he must be mafia.

I can't resist easy jokes.
Plus I was legitimately playing League at the time and dying internally.

[LinearPoint]

Yeah I personally don't see a benefit to a mass claim

Tells mafia who we all are and since they know what they can do it gives them more of an advantage I think, given they know what they as a faction can do and we don't. Mafia aren't going to claimswap anyway I don't think, except near the end. And honestly if we stop on yeeting "x" in f5 after they're tracked to "y" who died because they claim medic and no one CCs that's kinda on us?

I agree in regards to a total claim. I am more curious about the merits of a color claim. So no roles, just red team or blue team.

eh, I'm pretty sleep deprived rn and might go back on this

but

see what I just said with regards to fullclaim

Let's as a thought exercise say that all mafia are red, bam they know that 5 town contain 5 specific roles, and can probably make reads for roles within there. The information gained by town is less than that by mafia, and honestly, same for a 2/2 split.

and for what? to prevent them from claimswapping later? Don't think it would be that effective. The motivation for a claimswap is going to be some mechanical info being outted which makes the mafia look bad probably, and it's going to be bad on us for not catching it if we don't.

tl;dr, mafia gain more info and I don't think stopping a late game claimswap is very +EV for town

Well, stopping a late game claimswap is definitely +EV for town, but yeah I think I am starting to agree that it isn't enough +EV to counter the -EV of info given to scum.

There was another game with a similarish setup (well... only kinda, town was split into two teams) where I thought claiming teams was a horrible idea until I ran the numbers and realized that claiming teams could guarantee a scum chop without fail on either D1 or D2, and was actually almost the only viable strategy to give town a fighting chance (It was a 12p game with 4 wolves, so like... kill a wolf in two days or lose) This setup doesn't seem to have as much benefit to team claiming though.

While statistically lynching all of 1 color would result in 2 dead Mafia, we don't actually know the distribution of Mafia among the colors.
I think the merit of teamclaiming is more for Engineer since they need to know who is on their team to let into their base.

[Gavial]

Hello

[Gavial]

So I briefly considered if it might be good for us to massclaim our colors D1.

Benefits: reduces scums ability to do claimswaps, and also reduces the ability for scum to vague claim (i.e. if they are vaguely hinting at something that sounds a whole lot like your ability, and they're the same color as you, that's clearly sus).

Drawbacks: Could lead to scum being able to guess certain townies roles easier once the game goes on and a few people from own of the colors has flipped.

I didn't actually come to a conclusion on if I think we should or not though, so uhh... thoughts?

No, Im sure with all roles being known there gotta be some sort of anti-claim mechanic so hard pass.

It's an open setup, so there is no hidden anti-claim mechanic.

Either way though, I've come around to thinking it is not a good idea to claim colors.

Why not? Im green, how about you?

Derp clear denied

Fair, i could easily fake it as scum.

I think this interaction contains 1 wolf and 2 town.

[TonyStarkPrime]

There are probably some setup ways to mech out wolves but I haven’t really read yet and like nonsense can happen

[Gavial]

Not sure why LP be recently been called at as wolf randomly.
Last game they were town and I hard defended them.

[Gavial]

I don’t find their Playstyle wolfy at all but apparently others do?

[Dolby]

It cool if I talk about what abilities I think certain roles should use tonight or nah

[Gavial]

16, 4, 18, 1, 13, 9, 7



That is my RNG POE


So Seanzie, falcon, TSP, Dolby, Nook, LP, & Jack...let's start flipping these goons

I like that but not LP.

[Gavial]

I don’t wanna see them being pushed for the second time during day 1 in a row.

[Gavial]

It cool if I talk about what abilities I think certain roles should use tonight or nah

Go for it!

[Dolby]

tbh I'm not happy with Wilgy's pyro posting

it's probs NAI thought