the fact that alexa is still alive in the f5 could be indicative of her being a deepwolf. when i pair that with the fact that she has been not-so-subtly trying to steer the rest of the game into pushing on me and positioning herself to end the day with her vote on me, it's pretty easy to see her as a deepwolf that is playing with the specific agenda to get me killed today. i also think the fact that her read on gira shifted as unnaturally (IMO) as it did could be indicative of her trying to pocket him and steer him into voting for me
esooa/CR/TSP has strongly towntold throughout a lot of this game, but the bulk of my reasoning to townread them boils down to: "emotion", which is the type of thing that i tend to misclear people for more often than not. if i remove "emotion" from the picture, i'm not really sure if i have any compelling reasons to townread the TSP slot. TSP has been explicitly egging on gira's scumread on me and outright trying to get him to vote for me, which also aligns with the agenda of a wolf that's trying to win the game today by getting me killed
above all else, the thing that makes me suspicious of an alexa/TSP team is that their treatment of gira has an interesting synchronicity to it. both of them have been treating gira in a pockety, overly cloying way and both of them have been subtly trying to push gira into voting for me (or in TSP's case, he is also quite possibly trying to get gira to vote for lime coke as well). the way that alexa and TSP are treating gira feels oddly strategic to me, which could be indicative of them just being mafia together
what do you feel about us (me/you) both having the same exact view of TSP then?
the fact that you scumread TSP but you aren't pushing on him is only adding to my paranoia that the two of you might be teamed together
it is EXTREMELY common for wolves in LYLO situations to scumread two players, one town and one mafia, and then push on the town more than they push on the mafia. this is how i caught wolves in LYLO on epicmafia like 99% of the time, by just forcing them to out two scumreads and then seeing who they pushed on more lol
i think we've shown a similar hesitancy to push TSP though is my point? whereas Gira is straight-up locking him as town - and the reasoning i brought up hesitancy on TSP is virtually identical to you
yeah, we have shown a similar hesitancy to push on TSP, but i don't really understand the point that you're making. if youre town then FYPOV i guess it makes sense that you might think me/TSP work as a team for similar reasoning that i think you/TSP work as a team
i mean you're presenting this as me/TSP being W/W because i'm throwing him in a pair without pushing on him while i'm echoing your exact reasonings (Crichard emotional stuff ) for feeling reluctant to push there AND saying that now that it's LYLO i feel like the stakes are higher so i'm looking for additional reasons to townread the slot, like i feel like that is such to a Tee what you just said that you would consider that a bit more and interact with it rather than "Alexa/TSP W/W"
but it isn't just the fact that you are scumreading TSP without fully pushing on him - that just adds fuel to the existing teamread that i already havee
my main reasons for thinking that you work as a team are simply the fact that you and TSP are playing in a synchronous way - your treatment of gira today is identical and your treatment of me today is identical. you have both positioned yourselves to townread/protect gira while positioning yourselves to push on me and vote for me
i am interacting with it as we speak by actually discussing it with you. if i was 100% confident on my solve then i would have voted already, and i voiced the thought that you/TSP might be teamed to cast it into existence and see how it felt
alexa wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 6:43 pm
also @staypositivefriend you said that w!Esooa hard defends her partners, but Esooa pushed on me early game and kept pulling up reasons not to townread me?
i used the word "generally" for a reason - esooa will generally hard-defend her partners and try to steer the game into an incorrect direction, but that doesn't mean that she never busses or distances, and i actually think she would be more likely to try to distance from you than pretty much any other player here
granted, i'd have to look back at esooa's push on you because i dont really remember how it went down at all
miscleared Crich, I assume? his play since returning has been very different from what i saw from him months ago so i'm wondering if he has a scum game since returning
he doesn't take it quite as far as this game i don't think but a lot of emotional anger "pathetic"ness calls toward people/defeatism at points/etc - so like that stuff alone should be NAI
alexa wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 7:08 pm
yeah i'm looking at Multiball game and... definitely don't think he's out of his scum range
alexa wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 7:13 pm
he doesn't take it quite as far as this game i don't think but a lot of emotional anger "pathetic"ness calls toward people/defeatism at points/etc - so like that stuff alone should be NAI
they're not, like, remotely the same
there he's very passive and accepting of pressure toward him, he channels basically none of the outrage he has toward getting misread as town
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 7:39 pm
In all seriousness I'm actually putting pressure on myself here and it's probably unnecessary given how the game has gone...
Which is kind of "lol" to say the least after Day 2 started.
Crichard getting emotional under pressure as town is not "always" (like, when i subbed into anon game, he was saying he was fine dying), it's in sporadic bursts of moment
he says "Pathetic response. You're cornered I get it." to a vote on him which is like, imo a similar sentiment
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 7:39 pm
In all seriousness I'm actually putting pressure on myself here and it's probably unnecessary given how the game has gone...
Which is kind of "lol" to say the least after Day 2 started.
i don't get what this is supposed to mean?
If I'm wrong a lot of scrutiny from others and I'm mad at myself.
alexa wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 7:45 pm
Crichard getting emotional under pressure as town is not "always" (like, when i subbed into anon game, he was saying he was fine dying), it's in sporadic bursts of moment
he says "Pathetic response. You're cornered I get it." to a vote on him which is like, imo a similar sentiment
no not really at all, the point is that as town he gets frustrated at being scumread that doesn't happen as mafia it's a very basic sort of tell
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 7:39 pm
In all seriousness I'm actually putting pressure on myself here and it's probably unnecessary given how the game has gone...
Which is kind of "lol" to say the least after Day 2 started.
i don't get what this is supposed to mean?
If I'm wrong a lot of scrutiny from others and I'm mad at myself.
alexa wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 7:45 pm
Crichard getting emotional under pressure as town is not "always" (like, when i subbed into anon game, he was saying he was fine dying), it's in sporadic bursts of moment
he says "Pathetic response. You're cornered I get it." to a vote on him which is like, imo a similar sentiment
no not really at all, the point is that as town he gets frustrated at being scumread that doesn't happen as mafia it's a very basic sort of tell
how is calling someone pathetic not getting frustrated?
maybe there's not the same exact level of passion/emotion behind it? but imo it can easily be from like reading back on the game and not being there in real time, the actual sentiments he expresses aren't very different
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 8:05 pm
i feel like this is gonna be one of those days where everyone waits for everyone else to make the first move and vote tbh
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 8:04 pm
@Gira - is LC still your top scumread, or has your view of the game changed since you initially wolfread him?
i reread his posting the last few days and see no reason to believe he isn't mafia in cruise control and is playing today like i'd expect a mafia to
Gira wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 8:41 pm
but process-wise i am staunchly against waiting until the last minute for the first vote in ELO
yeah that's fair, i believe very strongly that people should wait at ~least 24 hours before voting in LYLO in 99% of situations, but we're at a point where i wouldnt really be mad if someone ended up voting because it feels like the thread is in somewhat of a stalemate
that said, if youre town then i dont really think that LC is the right vote. not sure how to convince you otherwise
the only thing about LC that i can really call wolfy today is the fact that he hasn't taken a clear stance on who he thinks the wolves are. does he think it's me/TSP?
Gira wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 8:41 pm
but process-wise i am staunchly against waiting until the last minute for the first vote in ELO
yeah that's fair, i believe very strongly that people should wait at ~least 24 hours before voting in LYLO in 99% of situations, but we're at a point where i wouldnt really be mad if someone ended up voting because it feels like the thread is in somewhat of a stalemate
that said, if youre town then i dont really think that LC is the right vote. not sure how to convince you otherwise
torn because i want to speak my own truth and think your townread on him is shallow
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 8:45 pm
gira if you're town LC is the wrong vote because it allows spf and alexa to immediately hammer him and win
in this world i would not be trying to talk gira out of voting LC in any circumstance
