GAME OF CHAMPIONS 2021 Endgame (town and 3p win)

[falcon45ca]

I wish more things were happening.

Someone call someone mafia confidently.

You're Mafia

[VOTE: Sean] aubergine

[alexa]

Linearpoint maf

You have very disagreeable takes this game.

guillotine is prob town but still a decent d1 kill
or he would be if linearpoint weren't obviously 100% totally outed with a fairly obvious scumslip that i don't think anyone else has properly noticed yet

@Urist where?

also Alison's opening posts feel towny especially #295

[alexa]

I think you're being overly generous if you assume early posts aren't serious.

LinearPoint's post about why it might be s/s was full of bad logic IMO. I thought about writing a post pointing out how none of the alignment conclusions actually follow from the things stated before them, but decided against it (but don't remember why I decided against it).

I did not piggyback off Urist's post. I did ask him if he saw the same thing as me, but he didn't answer me. You literally said the post that I voted LinearPoint over was bad, so are you piggybacking?

To be honest, Neeko doesn't follow what you are saying right now as it doesn't makes sense to her.

Nothing wrong with the logic imo. Mafia would have chosen N0 rolecop if given the option.
Alexa is claiming N0 rolecop.
Rolecop is very useful to Mafia. So Alexa is probably just Mafia.
Mafia if given N0 rolecop wouldn't just post their result ergo Alexa's check is probably fake.
Ergo Nutella is probably also Mafia. They both also seemed to drop the whole thunderdome extremely quickly and town read each other.

Logic for it being SvS seems pretty damn solid.

im not claiming specifically rolecop or anything. my role is more complicated and i wouldn't claim it that precisely with soup. i'm claiming i have details on nutella's role and that's it

[Seanzie]

I think you're being overly generous if you assume early posts aren't serious.

LinearPoint's post about why it might be s/s was full of bad logic IMO. I thought about writing a post pointing out how none of the alignment conclusions actually follow from the things stated before them, but decided against it (but don't remember why I decided against it).

I did not piggyback off Urist's post. I did ask him if he saw the same thing as me, but he didn't answer me. You literally said the post that I voted LinearPoint over was bad, so are you piggybacking?

To be honest, Neeko doesn't follow what you are saying right now as it doesn't makes sense to her.

Nothing wrong with the logic imo. Mafia would have chosen N0 rolecop if given the option.
Alexa is claiming N0 rolecop.
Rolecop is very useful to Mafia. So Alexa is probably just Mafia.
Mafia if given N0 rolecop wouldn't just post their result ergo Alexa's check is probably fake.
Ergo Nutella is probably also Mafia. They both also seemed to drop the whole thunderdome extremely quickly and town read each other.

Logic for it being SvS seems pretty damn solid.

ugh, fine, I'll go rip the post to pieces. Gimme a minute.

[Seanzie]

I wish more things were happening.

Someone call someone mafia confidently.

You're Mafia

[VOTE: Sean] aubergine

Thanks, I really appreciate all the things you do for me.

[falcon45ca]

I wish more things were happening.

Someone call someone mafia confidently.

You're Mafia

[VOTE: Sean] aubergine

Thanks, I really appreciate all the things you do for me.

I really don't feel I've done all that much for you, either negatively or positively

[c4e5g3d5]

alexa
nutella
hollowkatt
Guillotine
Urist

[hollowkatt]

There's exactly 0-1 mafia captains and this list has a lot of people unfamiliar with each other

All your "this is who the captain would pick" reads suck

kinda, but not really.

[sabie12]

early take is that Seanzie is probably wolfing imo

Sabie had an odd opener but i haven't read any additional posts from her

That's my secret cap. I'm always odd.

[alexa]

@LinearPoint please explain to me why nook gives mafia a rolecop + a soup kill? and why i as mafia would out that information right away if i'm literally their role cop? that makes no sense and the role makes way more sense as town (even if i'm not claiming that specific role i really don't get your logic)

[Alison]

Here is my case on Creature.

All of Creature's posts so far can be divided into one of three categories: useless fluff, attempting to derpclear himself for silly reasons, and "flame fanning".

Category 1: Useless Fluff

Spoiler: show

Why does the game always start when I'm the most low energy?

Wow this got intense so quick

Is this game by any chance bastard? I didn't check before joining

Who is Neeko?

Would much rather just be mafia in bastard games

I think you are.

I'm not mafia and this makes your push on me even more annoying

These posts go beyond the usual RVS horsing around (although we are well out of RVS now). These are posts that show a clear lack of interest in the progression of the game. His questions are flat, shallow, and in many cases could have been easily answered by glancing at the OP. He is more interested in looking like he is around and engaging with the game than actually being around and engaging with the game. He had a ripe opportunity to engage with me about my push on him, and he responded by going "I'm not mafia, I'm annoyed now, go away". I don't get the sense that he cares whether or not I am town misreading him or scum trying to get him killed, and this is especially concerning because in my last scum game I tried to get him killed early on.

I believe him when he says he is low energy. Take note that being low energy and unable to meaningfully engage with the game is a classic Creature scumtell.

Category 2: Attempting to derpclear himself for silly reasons

Spoiler: show

I want the guilty on nutella to be legit

Is soup kill a thing?

Would much rather just be mafia in bastard games

Wait I think the existence of a mafia captain should almost clear me from ever being picked as mafia this game

Unless you want to argue that I'm 3p here? But would be better to seek for the seven mafia first.

If I was mafia captain I would choose players tbh even if it is not mechanically optimal. I would much rather have an enjoyable team to play with.

I know I'd never be picked by the mafia captain if they chose players over roles

Creature makes an excessive number of posts attempting to insinuate that he is town, or in some way get people to "angleshoot" him as being town due to his lack of knowledge about the game mechanics or the inner workings of the mafia ("is there a soup kill?"). But a town Creature who genuinely wanted to know would just check the OP; asking in thread serves no purpose except to try to get people to falsely read him as town. He is aware that he struggles to gain the trust of the town when he is mafia, and he is cheaply attempting to earn this towncred through derptells and "townslips".

Take note that he is trying to convince the game repeatedly that the mafia captain chose players rather than roles. If he is town, he has no reason to believe that the mafia captain chose players over roles. I, personally, have reason to believe that the mafia captain chose roles. I think nutella is much townier than her scum self would be, and as I have argued, a town nutella implies a town Alexa. I know I am town, and I do not think a mafia captain who picked players would pass over both me and Alexa. So this attempt to convince the town - with no evidence whatsoever - that the mafia captain picked players reeks of agenda-pushing to me.

Finally, I want to highlight this line: "Unless you want to argue that I'm 3p here? But would be better to seek for the seven mafia first." Nobody has accused him of being 3P. It comes completely out of the blue, and reads almost as though he is self-aware of his own scumminess and is trying to hang a lampshade of it. I don't think it's a line that would flow naturally from a townie's mouth.

Category 3: Flame Fanning

Spoiler: show

lol if nutella is salty alexa caught her n0

lol if the alexa/nutella w/w theory is right

early take is that Seanzie is probably wolfing imo

Thought I was the only one seeing it

LinearPoint has been accused of fanning the flames. I think Creature is even more guilty of this sin. In his ISO of 19 posts (at the time I wrote this case), Creature utters provocative lines, egging on the suspicions of townies towards each other, three separate times. They are quoted in the spoilers above. Note that he first eggs on the "Alexa has a red check on nutella" narrative, then switches to "Alexa and nutella are wolves together". These narratives are contradictory. Creature does not have an opinion of his own; he just encourages whatever happens to be the prevailing opinion or thread sentiment at the time. This is strongly opportunistic, and this opportunism is exemplified even further by his agreement with 112 that Seanzie is wolfing. How is Seanzie being wolfy? Why has he not brought up this scumread on Seanzie before, if he thought he was the only one seeing it? In fact, if he thinks Seanzie is a wolf and fooling everyone except him, why would he keep quiet about it until someone else brings it up, at which point he eagerly jumps on the bandwagon? Answer: because he is nakedly taking advantage of 112's suspicion to push Seanzie.

At no point does he contribute to the conversation. He does not add evidence to support any narrative. He does not refute the evidence or points that others have brought up. He does not, in fact, engage with the theories and accusations that have been thrown around the thread. He merely fuels the fire with provocative one-liners and moves on without explaining them.

-

Please vote Creature.

[Creature]

Didn't you do something like this last game when you were mafia?

[c4e5g3d5]

At no point does he contribute to the conversation. He does not add evidence to support any narrative. He does not refute the evidence or points that others have brought up. He does not, in fact, engage with the theories and accusations that have been thrown around the thread. He merely fuels the fire with provocative one-liners and moves on without explaining them.

This is extremely NAI for Creature

[LinearPoint]

@LinearPoint please explain to me why nook gives mafia a rolecop + a soup kill? and why i as mafia would out that information right away if i'm literally their role cop? that makes no sense and the role makes way more sense as town (even if i'm not claiming that specific role i really don't get your logic)

Mafia Rolecop is just good role? Neeko would pick Mafia Rolecop over other roles.
Not sure what else you want?

[Creature]

At no point does he contribute to the conversation. He does not add evidence to support any narrative. He does not refute the evidence or points that others have brought up. He does not, in fact, engage with the theories and accusations that have been thrown around the thread. He merely fuels the fire with provocative one-liners and moves on without explaining them.

This is extremely NAI for Creature

Wait I thought you didn't even know me. Did wolfchat just inform you about that?

[alexa]

Didn't you do something like this last game when you were mafia?

who is this directed @

[Seanzie]

OK, so Neeko's current theory.
Neeko's role makes her agree with Nutella roles and alignments might not be tied down.
If Mafia chose roles why not take N0 rolecop? So Mafia either chose players and forwent N0 rolecop meaning Alexa and Nutella are both Town.

In the case that Mafia chose players, I don't see how you are concluding Alexa and Nutella are both town. Mafia chosing players doesn't seem to actually have any connection with the conclusion you're drawing here. Are you saying that Alexa and Nutella would not be chosen? Considering that Alexa was literally a wolf in a wolf-win champs finale, I think Alexa is a very natural candidate for wolves to choose, and while I think Nutella has a stronger town game than wolf game, they aren't a bad wolf, so they also could be wolf here. This t/t case makes no sense IMO.

OR
Mafia chose roles and took N0 rolecop using it to find roles quicker. Mafia probably wouldn't say they have a N0 rolecop on who they actually checked meaning Nutella and Alexa are probably both Mafia pretending with a gambit.
Nutella suggesting roles are not tied to alignment to Neeko makes it more likely option B was what happened and Nutella knew roles were not randomly assigned alignments.

This case also doesn't really make sense IMO. First off, there is exactly one soup kill and the wolves need to sacrifice a wolf in order to use it, so it will likely only be used late game. There may be many very strong roles, so a single N0 rolecop that can't be used until late game. Vig shots, strong investigatives, strong protectives and random other roles I think all make more sense than a N0 rolecop. Perhaps if there are only 6 other strong roles out there, then sure, but from what I've seen of Alexa's role, I don't see it as so powerful that Mafia would have definitely taken it. So, that part doesn't really work out...

Now, I don't see how Nutella saying roles are not tied to alignment makes it likely that it was option B. If town!Nutella got a scummy-looking role, then they would know that scummy-looking roles can be given to town, no? So this is at best a confbias read you're pushing on Nutella and at worst a chance for you to flame fans onto a spat.

[nutella]

100% agree with all points of Alison's case. And I just played with town creature in a mash last week and this ain't it chief. He's way off rhythm.

[alexa]

@LinearPoint please explain to me why nook gives mafia a rolecop + a soup kill? and why i as mafia would out that information right away if i'm literally their role cop? that makes no sense and the role makes way more sense as town (even if i'm not claiming that specific role i really don't get your logic)

Mafia Rolecop is just good role? Neeko would pick Mafia Rolecop over other roles.
Not sure what else you want?

N0? with a soup? if they have anything and it's more than 1 shot that's extremely overpowered.

[c4e5g3d5]

At no point does he contribute to the conversation. He does not add evidence to support any narrative. He does not refute the evidence or points that others have brought up. He does not, in fact, engage with the theories and accusations that have been thrown around the thread. He merely fuels the fire with provocative one-liners and moves on without explaining them.

This is extremely NAI for Creature

Wait I thought you didn't even know me. Did wolfchat just inform you about that?

Lmfao (derogatory)

[Seanzie]

I wish more things were happening.

Someone call someone mafia confidently.

You're Mafia

[VOTE: Sean] aubergine

Thanks, I really appreciate all the things you do for me.

I really don't feel I've done all that much for you, either negatively or positively

I mean you did just do exactly what I asked you to do?

[Alison]

Didn't you do something like this last game when you were mafia?

Oh, now you're concerned I am mafia trying to eliminate you. But when I pushed you earlier on in the game you brushed me aside and said you were annoyed.

[112]

At no point does he contribute to the conversation. He does not add evidence to support any narrative. He does not refute the evidence or points that others have brought up. He does not, in fact, engage with the theories and accusations that have been thrown around the thread. He merely fuels the fire with provocative one-liners and moves on without explaining them.

This is extremely NAI for Creature

honestly that whole alison post reads as scum casing town

[Alison]

At no point does he contribute to the conversation. He does not add evidence to support any narrative. He does not refute the evidence or points that others have brought up. He does not, in fact, engage with the theories and accusations that have been thrown around the thread. He merely fuels the fire with provocative one-liners and moves on without explaining them.

This is extremely NAI for Creature

Are the other parts of my case NAI for him, too?

[alexa]

#286

i think urist is town

[ilario]

HENLO SYNDIKATTS! I HAVE MISSED YOU

Holy fuxk, now the party can begin

This is scum

[VOTE: Falcon45ca] aubergine

why?

[LinearPoint]

OK, Neeko is blind as a bat apparently. No idea how Neeko missed the stew thing when reading the OP.
Neeko thought it was some joke name for lynching.

[Alison]

At no point does he contribute to the conversation. He does not add evidence to support any narrative. He does not refute the evidence or points that others have brought up. He does not, in fact, engage with the theories and accusations that have been thrown around the thread. He merely fuels the fire with provocative one-liners and moves on without explaining them.

This is extremely NAI for Creature

honestly that whole alison post reads as scum casing town

Why does it read that way to you?

[Creature]

Didn't you do something like this last game when you were mafia?

Oh, now you're concerned I am mafia trying to eliminate you. But when I pushed you earlier on in the game you brushed me aside and said you were annoyed.

I thought you were trying to sort me so I just shrugged off and waited for you to get to the correct conclusion. Instead you just bring up posts that aren't mafia-indicative at all and hide its bullshit between a lot of text.

[nutella]

At no point does he contribute to the conversation. He does not add evidence to support any narrative. He does not refute the evidence or points that others have brought up. He does not, in fact, engage with the theories and accusations that have been thrown around the thread. He merely fuels the fire with provocative one-liners and moves on without explaining them.

This is extremely NAI for Creature

honestly that whole alison post reads as scum casing town

Nah. Alison being guns blazing like this is townie and maybe this is the weakest point in the case but the rest is on the nose. Like the whole guilty conscience and 3p comment thing is pretty solid slam dunking imo.

[112]

At no point does he contribute to the conversation. He does not add evidence to support any narrative. He does not refute the evidence or points that others have brought up. He does not, in fact, engage with the theories and accusations that have been thrown around the thread. He merely fuels the fire with provocative one-liners and moves on without explaining them.

This is extremely NAI for Creature

Are the other parts of my case NAI for him, too?

I think it's way too early to write such a monster of a post--if you have so much to write against him/his slot right now, it's probably coming from a place of wolfy over-eagerness to project town or otherwise control the game.

[Alison]

Didn't you do something like this last game when you were mafia?

Oh, now you're concerned I am mafia trying to eliminate you. But when I pushed you earlier on in the game you brushed me aside and said you were annoyed.

I thought you were trying to sort me so I just shrugged off and waited for you to get to the correct conclusion. Instead you just bring up posts that aren't mafia-indicative at all and hide its bullshit between a lot of text.

I have explained why the posts are mafia indicative. Now it is your turn to explain why they aren't.

[ilario]

Based off first 2 pages Alexa hk c4 falcon pinged me as towny

Does anyone know roughly what the breakup of alignments is on this just so I know how generous I can be with trs? Is it like a mash where 1/4 is mafia roughly

[TonyStarkPrime]

I really need to read but there a more obvious reason for Alexa being town here

[Alison]

At no point does he contribute to the conversation. He does not add evidence to support any narrative. He does not refute the evidence or points that others have brought up. He does not, in fact, engage with the theories and accusations that have been thrown around the thread. He merely fuels the fire with provocative one-liners and moves on without explaining them.

This is extremely NAI for Creature

Are the other parts of my case NAI for him, too?

I think it's way too early to write such a monster of a post--if you have so much to write against him/his slot right now, it's probably coming from a place of wolfy over-eagerness to project town or otherwise control the game.

I am eager to project town and control the game as both alignments. I have also been known to initiate giant pushes on players I think are suspicious very early on in the game. All of these things are staples of my town play, and most of the players here can corroborate this. Does that change your mind?

[LinearPoint]

OK, so Neeko's current theory.
Neeko's role makes her agree with Nutella roles and alignments might not be tied down.
If Mafia chose roles why not take N0 rolecop? So Mafia either chose players and forwent N0 rolecop meaning Alexa and Nutella are both Town.

In the case that Mafia chose players, I don't see how you are concluding Alexa and Nutella are both town. Mafia chosing players doesn't seem to actually have any connection with the conclusion you're drawing here. Are you saying that Alexa and Nutella would not be chosen? Considering that Alexa was literally a wolf in a wolf-win champs finale, I think Alexa is a very natural candidate for wolves to choose, and while I think Nutella has a stronger town game than wolf game, they aren't a bad wolf, so they also could be wolf here. This t/t case makes no sense IMO.

OR
Mafia chose roles and took N0 rolecop using it to find roles quicker. Mafia probably wouldn't say they have a N0 rolecop on who they actually checked meaning Nutella and Alexa are probably both Mafia pretending with a gambit.
Nutella suggesting roles are not tied to alignment to Neeko makes it more likely option B was what happened and Nutella knew roles were not randomly assigned alignments.

This case also doesn't really make sense IMO. First off, there is exactly one soup kill and the wolves need to sacrifice a wolf in order to use it, so it will likely only be used late game. There may be many very strong roles, so a single N0 rolecop that can't be used until late game. Vig shots, strong investigatives, strong protectives and random other roles I think all make more sense than a N0 rolecop. Perhaps if there are only 6 other strong roles out there, then sure, but from what I've seen of Alexa's role, I don't see it as so powerful that Mafia would have definitely taken it. So, that part doesn't really work out...

Now, I don't see how Nutella saying roles are not tied to alignment makes it likely that it was option B. If town!Nutella got a scummy-looking role, then they would know that scummy-looking roles can be given to town, no? So this is at best a confbias read you're pushing on Nutella and at worst a chance for you to flame fans onto a spat.

The T/T case was from the assumption that roles are not tied to alignments. If Mafia didn't pick N0 rolecop then Alexa can't be Mafia meaning Nutella is probably Town from their reaction.
The W/W case Neeko still thinks is valid, but will give you that maybe she's wrong about Nutella being more likely to be Mafia with that comment.

[TonyStarkPrime]

Based off first 2 pages Alexa hk c4 falcon pinged me as towny

Does anyone know roughly what the breakup of alignments is on this just so I know how generous I can be with trs? Is it like a mash where 1/4 is mafia roughly

Yeah probably, likely at least 1 3P too

[Paopan]

After reading Alison's statement... Aight aight.
I need some town creds and I'm joining the Creature train

[VOTE: Creature] aubergine
On the other hand... If I were on a Mafia Captain's shoe. I would like to have Alexa on my team.

[Creature]

At no point does he contribute to the conversation. He does not add evidence to support any narrative. He does not refute the evidence or points that others have brought up. He does not, in fact, engage with the theories and accusations that have been thrown around the thread. He merely fuels the fire with provocative one-liners and moves on without explaining them.

This is extremely NAI for Creature

Are the other parts of my case NAI for him, too?

Fluff posts are NAI

Whatever the derp thing you mean is NAI because you don't need to put stock on them

The flame fanning or whatever could just be town trying to push something

[c4e5g3d5]

At no point does he contribute to the conversation. He does not add evidence to support any narrative. He does not refute the evidence or points that others have brought up. He does not, in fact, engage with the theories and accusations that have been thrown around the thread. He merely fuels the fire with provocative one-liners and moves on without explaining them.

This is extremely NAI for Creature

Are the other parts of my case NAI for him, too?

Fluff
Beyond that you're gonna need to find someone who knows him better than I do

But his mech posting is just normal wolfy

[ilario]

Maybe I’d add mr to my previous list

[nutella]

At no point does he contribute to the conversation. He does not add evidence to support any narrative. He does not refute the evidence or points that others have brought up. He does not, in fact, engage with the theories and accusations that have been thrown around the thread. He merely fuels the fire with provocative one-liners and moves on without explaining them.

This is extremely NAI for Creature

Are the other parts of my case NAI for him, too?

I think it's way too early to write such a monster of a post--if you have so much to write against him/his slot right now, it's probably coming from a place of wolfy over-eagerness to project town or otherwise control the game.

Not too early for a wolf to make themself that obvious. I think alison is right and justified by how glaringly bad creature's content has been.

[112]

At no point does he contribute to the conversation. He does not add evidence to support any narrative. He does not refute the evidence or points that others have brought up. He does not, in fact, engage with the theories and accusations that have been thrown around the thread. He merely fuels the fire with provocative one-liners and moves on without explaining them.

This is extremely NAI for Creature

honestly that whole alison post reads as scum casing town

Nah. Alison being guns blazing like this is townie and maybe this is the weakest point in the case but the rest is on the nose. Like the whole guilty conscience and 3p comment thing is pretty solid slam dunking imo.

hmm will consider

to me: i read the post first of all paying attention to its form more-so than the contents, and it really seemed like alison was trying /hard/ to follow a process and more than that appear to be following a process. maybe i am being anti-intellectual here and there is towny merit in casing people like that, but i honestly get the feeling she's trying too hard to slam dunk creature through a rigid adherence to cause-and-effect writing.

idk if that makes sense but ye

[alexa]

Based off first 2 pages Alexa hk c4 falcon pinged me as towny

Does anyone know roughly what the breakup of alignments is on this just so I know how generous I can be with trs? Is it like a mash where 1/4 is mafia roughly

okay i townread this

@ilario it's stated in OP that there's 7 wolves exactly and at least 1 3P

i didn't realize until MR made a comment about mechs earlier so i feel like this is a towny mindset

[Creature]

At no point does he contribute to the conversation. He does not add evidence to support any narrative. He does not refute the evidence or points that others have brought up. He does not, in fact, engage with the theories and accusations that have been thrown around the thread. He merely fuels the fire with provocative one-liners and moves on without explaining them.

This is extremely NAI for Creature

honestly that whole alison post reads as scum casing town

Nah. Alison being guns blazing like this is townie and maybe this is the weakest point in the case but the rest is on the nose. Like the whole guilty conscience and 3p comment thing is pretty solid slam dunking imo.

The guilty was like half-serious. It was the best thing to push on at the time. It was that or wait for a magical case on someone.

[c4e5g3d5]

Based off first 2 pages Alexa hk c4 falcon pinged me as towny

Does anyone know roughly what the breakup of alignments is on this just so I know how generous I can be with trs? Is it like a mash where 1/4 is mafia roughly

It's in the OP

[Alison]

At no point does he contribute to the conversation. He does not add evidence to support any narrative. He does not refute the evidence or points that others have brought up. He does not, in fact, engage with the theories and accusations that have been thrown around the thread. He merely fuels the fire with provocative one-liners and moves on without explaining them.

This is extremely NAI for Creature

Are the other parts of my case NAI for him, too?

Fluff posts are NAI

Whatever the derp thing you mean is NAI because you don't need to put stock on them

The flame fanning or whatever could just be town trying to push something

It's true, I don't need to put stock in the derptells. But I think you're the kind of player who would be a lot more likely to try to derpclear yourself as scum than as town.

Flame fanning - okay. What were you trying to push, and what did you gain from those pushes? Can you elaborate on your Seanzie read?

[112]

At no point does he contribute to the conversation. He does not add evidence to support any narrative. He does not refute the evidence or points that others have brought up. He does not, in fact, engage with the theories and accusations that have been thrown around the thread. He merely fuels the fire with provocative one-liners and moves on without explaining them.

This is extremely NAI for Creature

Are the other parts of my case NAI for him, too?

I think it's way too early to write such a monster of a post--if you have so much to write against him/his slot right now, it's probably coming from a place of wolfy over-eagerness to project town or otherwise control the game.

Not too early for a wolf to make themself that obvious. I think alison is right and justified by how glaringly bad creature's content has been.

fair enough and i haven't read pages 2-5ish yet

haven't had a problem with creature myself--all i've really noticed from him is that he agrees with my Seanzie read and i prefer to see that favourably than not right now

[nutella]

At no point does he contribute to the conversation. He does not add evidence to support any narrative. He does not refute the evidence or points that others have brought up. He does not, in fact, engage with the theories and accusations that have been thrown around the thread. He merely fuels the fire with provocative one-liners and moves on without explaining them.

This is extremely NAI for Creature

Are the other parts of my case NAI for him, too?

Fluff posts are NAI

Whatever the derp thing you mean is NAI because you don't need to put stock on them

The flame fanning or whatever could just be town trying to push something

"Could" be but isn't eh

[Alison]

At no point does he contribute to the conversation. He does not add evidence to support any narrative. He does not refute the evidence or points that others have brought up. He does not, in fact, engage with the theories and accusations that have been thrown around the thread. He merely fuels the fire with provocative one-liners and moves on without explaining them.

This is extremely NAI for Creature

honestly that whole alison post reads as scum casing town

Nah. Alison being guns blazing like this is townie and maybe this is the weakest point in the case but the rest is on the nose. Like the whole guilty conscience and 3p comment thing is pretty solid slam dunking imo.

hmm will consider

to me: i read the post first of all paying attention to its form more-so than the contents, and it really seemed like alison was trying /hard/ to follow a process and more than that appear to be following a process. maybe i am being anti-intellectual here and there is towny merit in casing people like that, but i honestly get the feeling she's trying too hard to slam dunk creature through a rigid adherence to cause-and-effect writing.

idk if that makes sense but ye

A rigid adherence to cause-and-effect is a good way to summarize my town play.