GAME OF CHAMPIONS 2021 Endgame (town and 3p win)

[Sloonei]

can any TS regulars tell me if Sloonei is volume cleared or if the times i've seen him sub out/slank as wolf are flukes tbh

I have been one of the highest volume players in this community in the past. But I have been in semi-retirement for the last year or so.

[dyachei]

i dont think post numbers are alignment indicative for sloon. i think it's more process related

[Sloonei]

Anyway I just took a quick look at LinearPoint's interactions with Dizzy and they were uninspiring. I can see a somewhat awkward teammate pairing between those two.

[alexa]

can any TS regulars tell me if Sloonei is volume cleared or if the times i've seen him sub out/slank as wolf are flukes tbh

I think I've seen Sloonei highpost as wolf

noted

do you think he's a villager?

[Creature]

Okay I won't oppose the LinearPoint lynch

[Creature]

can any TS regulars tell me if Sloonei is volume cleared or if the times i've seen him sub out/slank as wolf are flukes tbh

I think I've seen Sloonei highpost as wolf

noted

do you think he's a villager?

I'm more praying he's a villager. He's like being the voice of reason rn, but I suppose any wolf could be the voice of reason atp.

[Phil and Gloria]

GET OUTTA MY WAY I GOT TEAMMATES TO CRUSH. VROOM VROOM.

[alexa]

I don't really have any scum reads, but I would straight up yeet Sloonei here. He probably doesn't want to play because he's mafia.

i really just struggle to see, based on everything i know of dizzy, that he makes this comment so early about sloon if sloon is his partner. like, i'd think he'd want to make sloon look good and not force this type of attention on him prior to it being a thing? i think sloon just has to be a villager here, or at least not mafia

[LinearPoint]

Anyway I just took a quick look at LinearPoint's interactions with Dizzy and they were uninspiring. I can see a somewhat awkward teammate pairing between those two.

Neeko just didn't really find much of a reason to look into Dizzy D1 as nothing stood out and they were just kinda not there.
She was about to D2, but then Dizzy just got sniped by ilario.

[c4e5g3d5]

I promised to talk some more about my c4 suspicion. It seems he has gained sufficient momentum since last night anyway, but I will still dump my thoughts into the thread.

Something that I feel is sometimes true about mafia members is that they struggle to actively pursue suspicions. It is one thing to name suspects and place votes, but it is another to flesh out reads and have them develop in real time. Making up fake arguments about a person about why they are lying when you know that they are not can be a difficult thing to do, especially when the person you are targeting is capable of being more vocal than you about it. The result is a bunch of stagnant suspicions that fail to take off, with more energy spent arguing (truthfully) about why certain players are town instead of mafia.

I think I see this trend playing out in c4's posts. Observe:

Spoiler: show

[VOTE: Creature] aubergine

The fact that Creature can only bring himself to talk about one thing so far is wolfy.

The fact that he's clearly beenfollowing along live for a reasonable amount of time given how quickly he voted nut makes it wolfier.

The fact that it's a piece of mechanical information also makes it wolfier.

The fact that it's an obviously fake redcheck also makes it wolfier.

Is soup kill a thing?

Derp denied

@Sloonei post

I feel like I shouldn't be the one towncasing myself

Then lemme do it

Creature's strings of posts of talking to himself came off as pure and more drawn out than w!Creature would bother with

[VOTE: Porscha] aubergine

Sup

hey gamer what's poppin

You feel wolfy from a glance

Are you a wolf?

C4, shoot:

Scotty (scummy)

Bo (as KZA wanted)

or

Wilgy (as he requested)

Could totally shoot Scotty

Bo seems to be genuinely enjoying himself and is decently polarized but since both of you know him better do you have specific insights?

Wilgy lolno

Yeah Mac isn't towny lul

Ender townreaders talk to me about Ender pls

[VOTE: Sloonei] aubergine

Where's that spark I saw in RYM 96

i think paopan may be town rn based on his response and my spiritual vote is not on him, just haven't figured out where to go yet

@dyachei what's your read on me rn?

I have an idea of where you can go

Were you paying attention to Sloonei's posting in RYM perchance? It was miles townier than this even with low engagement.

I'm very tempted to just shoot Sloon

Etc.

C4's most substantive Day 1 posts are an exchange with Porscha that lists reasons to suspect her, but never develops in any meaningful way. The rest of c4's Day 1 feels like aimless prodding and asking for direction on who to shoot. I am lacking the full context leading up to his decision to shoot Bo, but based on c4's posts alone I do not find his process to be all that convincing.
The suspects c4 does prod for most of Day 1 are easy options. He starts with Creature, whose playstyle invites suspicion, especially early on. Then he shifts to Porscha, an unfamiliar face with light activity. Then he spends a few posts prodding me with no direction because of my absence/lack of spark. But c4 never actually put real pressure on me. He demanded that I post and then didn't have anything to say to me when I did.

Compare all of this to the amount of time and energy c4 puts into townreading people on Day 1. I am having trouble finding any evidence that he is making a sincere effort to uncover suspects. He steps in to declare town reads every once in a while, and then gropes around listlessly at potential suspects. I'm uninspired by all of this. If c4 is town, I need to see him demonstrate that he is actually trying to develop reads on players.

Finally gonna properly cover this thing.

The actual point you're making and how you're landing at the expectations you have are beyond me.

In terms of the specific pushes you describe,

The Porscha push developed into exactly what it was meant to develop into, which was a wolf read and push, and saying otherwise just looks like word salad. It was literally "this is why Porscha is a wolf" followed by voting Porscha followed by asking people to vote Porscha followed by getting people to vote Porscha. I'm stunned that I have to explain this.
Creature, sure, but we can agree that doesn't mean much on its own.
My push on you was not to pressure you. I voted you and called you a wolf because I thought you were a wolf. Extrapolating more and then saying "But why didn't c4 follow my manual on pressuring players in order to pressure this player he wasn't trying to pressure?" is just disingenuous.

It is true of me in general that I townread more people than I scumread, and villagers have pushed me plenty for it historically, but like, what the fuck is this? Was there a word minimum you were shooting for here or something? It's like every time you almost say a reason I'm a wolf, you stumble, then say, "Hm, I don't know what to write here. Let me add the nearest objective observation and word it dramatically."

Regretting saying this in some amount because your posting has improved a lot and I think you're town.

[Sloonei]

Seanzie: Paopan, Belzy, TonyStarkPrime, DrWilgy, nutella
Wiggly voted self preservation, TSP lead the wagon, need more on the other 3 as to why they voted it. Probably 2 Mafia exactly.

DrWilgy: sabie, dyachei, radishes, c4
Dya shot Marmot so not them, the other 3 maybe 1 Mafia as a counterwagon if Wiggly is not Mafia.

NotAnAxehole: Guillotine, alexa, Phil and Gloria, ilario
This wagon is a bit sus so probably 1-2 Mafia in it, but it kind of ended up being a vanity wagon so if Wiggly is Mafia, Mafia being on this wagon makes little sense.

EnderWiggin: dyslexicon, jpic, falcon
One wagon that was in the CFDS. Possibly 1 Maf, not guarenteed.

Not voting/pure vanity: Sloonei, 112, hollowkatt, Creature, sig, porscha, and Linearpoint (Neeko)
1 to 2 Mafia in this list based on other analysis.

Neeko thinks we should focus on 2 of these groups of people for the vote of 8 OR choose a handful of suspicious from each.
Neekos proposal based on this would be: Paopan, Belzy, TonyStarkPrime, nutella/Wiggly, Guillotine, alexa, Phil and Gloria, ilario as the logical solving mechanically.
One can argue instead of "Guillotine, alexa, Phil and Gloria, ilario" putting 'sabie, dyachei, radishes, c4" also is logical to solve mechanically.

IF neeko were to suggest scummiest of all groups the list would look closer to this:
Belzy, TonyStarkPrime, Guillotine, Phil and Gloria, Sabie, radishes, jpic, falcon with possibly substituting one for c4 or Dizzy.

This post sticks out in particular. Dizzy (along with C4) gets tacked onto the end as a salad appendage after Linear has spent a lot of words talking about why a bunch of people not named Dyslexicon deserve to be suspected.

[Phil and Gloria]

c4, sloonei, kiss please

[falcon45ca]

[VOTE: unvote sloon, vote sabie] aubergine

[Phil and Gloria]

i dont actually feel all that confident about linearpoint flipping mafia given they've felt like one of the hardest working slots on day 2 and the uplift in effort d1 to d2 is usually a pretty reliable tell.

@LinearPoint if u had a gun to fire with right now who do u shoot?

[alexa]

btw another reason i felt like c4/sloonei were unaligned was i wolfed against both of them as Vs and one of the things that frustrated me was how quickly they found each other with such confidence (particularly c4's read on sloonei) so the different dynamic here makes me feel like they're not v/v, but like, considering my individual reads on them are villager it is purely a dynamic read

[falcon45ca]

GET OUTTA MY WAY I GOT TEAMMATES TO CRUSH. VROOM VROOM.

fuxk I love you

[Creature]

I don't get the 112 townreads

[c4e5g3d5]

Ftr both the Creature and Porscha pushes were out of my wolf range unless they're wolves, which they aren't, but I know that will convince nobody

[c4e5g3d5]

I don't get the 112 townreads

Dizzy flipped wolf

[c4e5g3d5]

Creature do you disagree with that unalign in particular

[Sloonei]

btw another reason i felt like c4/sloonei were unaligned was i wolfed against both of them as Vs and one of the things that frustrated me was how quickly they found each other with such confidence (particularly c4's read on sloonei) so the different dynamic here makes me feel like they're not v/v, but like, considering my individual reads on them are villager it is purely a dynamic read

c4 and I do not have significant experience with one another.

[LinearPoint]

Seanzie: Paopan, Belzy, TonyStarkPrime, DrWilgy, nutella
Wiggly voted self preservation, TSP lead the wagon, need more on the other 3 as to why they voted it. Probably 2 Mafia exactly.

DrWilgy: sabie, dyachei, radishes, c4
Dya shot Marmot so not them, the other 3 maybe 1 Mafia as a counterwagon if Wiggly is not Mafia.

NotAnAxehole: Guillotine, alexa, Phil and Gloria, ilario
This wagon is a bit sus so probably 1-2 Mafia in it, but it kind of ended up being a vanity wagon so if Wiggly is Mafia, Mafia being on this wagon makes little sense.

EnderWiggin: dyslexicon, jpic, falcon
One wagon that was in the CFDS. Possibly 1 Maf, not guarenteed.

Not voting/pure vanity: Sloonei, 112, hollowkatt, Creature, sig, porscha, and Linearpoint (Neeko)
1 to 2 Mafia in this list based on other analysis.

Neeko thinks we should focus on 2 of these groups of people for the vote of 8 OR choose a handful of suspicious from each.
Neekos proposal based on this would be: Paopan, Belzy, TonyStarkPrime, nutella/Wiggly, Guillotine, alexa, Phil and Gloria, ilario as the logical solving mechanically.
One can argue instead of "Guillotine, alexa, Phil and Gloria, ilario" putting 'sabie, dyachei, radishes, c4" also is logical to solve mechanically.

IF neeko were to suggest scummiest of all groups the list would look closer to this:
Belzy, TonyStarkPrime, Guillotine, Phil and Gloria, Sabie, radishes, jpic, falcon with possibly substituting one for c4 or Dizzy.

This post sticks out in particular. Dizzy (along with C4) gets tacked onto the end as a salad appendage after Linear has spent a lot of words talking about why a bunch of people not named Dyslexicon deserve to be suspected.

Neeko was meaning to say substitute Radish/PIC/Flacon with c4/Dizzy as she wasn't sure which two of those 4 would be best to put into the list.
If you look at the Dr Wiggly and Ender wagons Neeko took Radish, JPIC, and Falcon as the main PoE targets, but was trying to say c$ and Dizzy were also possible PoE targets.
Comma usage could have been a bit better in that post, but it was long and Neeko was probably getting tired typing near the end.

[Creature]

Creature do you disagree with that unalign in particular

I don't remember it. Also I don't put too much stock on spew reads.

[Sloonei]

I am not responding to c4's response to my case because I do not feel like it would be constructive.

[alexa]

btw another reason i felt like c4/sloonei were unaligned was i wolfed against both of them as Vs and one of the things that frustrated me was how quickly they found each other with such confidence (particularly c4's read on sloonei) so the different dynamic here makes me feel like they're not v/v, but like, considering my individual reads on them are villager it is purely a dynamic read

c4 and I do not have significant experience with one another.

noted

i was not aware of this/assumed you had

[falcon45ca]

[VOTE: unvote pao, vote tsp] aubergine

[Sloonei]

Neeko was meaning to say substitute Radish/PIC/Flacon with c4/Dizzy as she wasn't sure which two of those 4 would be best to put into the list.
If you look at the Dr Wiggly and Ender wagons Neeko took Radish, JPIC, and Falcon as the main PoE targets, but was trying to say c$ and Dizzy were also possible PoE targets.
Comma usage could have been a bit better in that post, but it was long and Neeko was probably getting tired typing near the end.

I do not feel that this addresses my concern.

[LinearPoint]

i dont actually feel all that confident about linearpoint flipping mafia given they've felt like one of the hardest working slots on day 2 and the uplift in effort d1 to d2 is usually a pretty reliable tell.

@LinearPoint if u had a gun to fire with right now who do u shoot?

TSP

Possibly Wiggly just cuz their flip would say a lot, but TSP is Neeko's personal choice since Neeko has been saying she's found TSP's EoD bad.

[c4e5g3d5]

I am not responding to c4's response to my case because I do not feel like it would be constructive.

Do you believe it y/n

You can forego any and all details to avoid anything messy

[LinearPoint]

Neeko was meaning to say substitute Radish/PIC/Flacon with c4/Dizzy as she wasn't sure which two of those 4 would be best to put into the list.
If you look at the Dr Wiggly and Ender wagons Neeko took Radish, JPIC, and Falcon as the main PoE targets, but was trying to say c$ and Dizzy were also possible PoE targets.
Comma usage could have been a bit better in that post, but it was long and Neeko was probably getting tired typing near the end.

I do not feel that this addresses my concern.

Then neeko fails to understand your concerns.

[Sloonei]

btw another reason i felt like c4/sloonei were unaligned was i wolfed against both of them as Vs and one of the things that frustrated me was how quickly they found each other with such confidence (particularly c4's read on sloonei) so the different dynamic here makes me feel like they're not v/v, but like, considering my individual reads on them are villager it is purely a dynamic read

c4 and I do not have significant experience with one another.

noted

i was not aware of this/assumed you had

I assume you are referring to the RYM game on MU which I have only faint memories of. Other than that, we have only played 1-2 games together.

[Sloonei]

I am not responding to c4's response to my case because I do not feel like it would be constructive.

Do you believe it y/n

You can forego any and all details to avoid anything messy

I am taking it into consideration along with the rest of your posts. Just continue to play the game and my read will develop.

[c4e5g3d5]

Ftr @alexa Sloonei is currently doing the things I townread him for in RYM 96

[falcon45ca]

I don't get the 112 townreads

Dizzy flipped wolf

112 pushing a flipped wolf is NAI for her

[Sloonei]

Neeko was meaning to say substitute Radish/PIC/Flacon with c4/Dizzy as she wasn't sure which two of those 4 would be best to put into the list.
If you look at the Dr Wiggly and Ender wagons Neeko took Radish, JPIC, and Falcon as the main PoE targets, but was trying to say c$ and Dizzy were also possible PoE targets.
Comma usage could have been a bit better in that post, but it was long and Neeko was probably getting tired typing near the end.

I do not feel that this addresses my concern.

Then neeko fails to understand your concerns.

It felt as though you only included Dizzy's name out of a sense of obligation so as to not be called out for omitting him.

[Sloonei]

I must have been on fire in this alleged RYM game.

[alexa]

btw another reason i felt like c4/sloonei were unaligned was i wolfed against both of them as Vs and one of the things that frustrated me was how quickly they found each other with such confidence (particularly c4's read on sloonei) so the different dynamic here makes me feel like they're not v/v, but like, considering my individual reads on them are villager it is purely a dynamic read

c4 and I do not have significant experience with one another.

noted

i was not aware of this/assumed you had

I assume you are referring to the RYM game on MU which I have only faint memories of. Other than that, we have only played 1-2 games together.

yes

[alexa]

Ftr @alexa Sloonei is currently doing the things I townread him for in RYM 96

good to know

i take back my original thought of there probably being a wolf in you two and think it can be v/v very easily

[c4e5g3d5]

I don't get the 112 townreads

Dizzy flipped wolf

112 pushing a flipped wolf is NAI for her

Particular way their argument went looked not w/w

[LinearPoint]

Neeko was meaning to say substitute Radish/PIC/Flacon with c4/Dizzy as she wasn't sure which two of those 4 would be best to put into the list.
If you look at the Dr Wiggly and Ender wagons Neeko took Radish, JPIC, and Falcon as the main PoE targets, but was trying to say c$ and Dizzy were also possible PoE targets.
Comma usage could have been a bit better in that post, but it was long and Neeko was probably getting tired typing near the end.

I do not feel that this addresses my concern.

Then neeko fails to understand your concerns.

It felt as though you only included Dizzy's name out of a sense of obligation so as to not be called out for omitting him.

No, it was more because Dizzy was in the list of people on the Ender wagon and Neeko believed there was a chance one of those 3 were Mafia.
Neeko put 2 names from the list, but was saying Dizzy could easily replaec one of the for PoE because Neeko really had not heavily read into any of JPIC, Falcon, or Dizzy at the time.
So it was more a random selection of JPIC and Falcon from those 3 names.

[sabie12]

Honestly 2 Mafia on Ender at EoD when Ender had 3 votes isn't super likely so JPIC and Falcon are a bit more town off of that.

I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility. Ender had more votes on him but then people switched. Mafia probably didn't kill ender so they weren't planning on him flipping town today. Like they may have been setting up to mischop. Not all the mafia would want to be seen voting seanzie. Is it likely all 3 are Mafia? No but I wouldn't say it fully town clears either falcon or jpic.

I don't know this game is super hurting my brain. I figure I might as well claim and you can take from it what you will. Here's why I said this post.

I was the town vig shot on ender. My thought process there was alison and Sean both thought ender was scummy. Dizzy seemed to pushing for ender. I couldn't figure out a dizzy read so If ender ended up being scum then awesome. If he flipped town then it helped sort out dizzy which it did and then someone shot him and he flipped wolf. I thought this also made jpic and maybe falcon look bad for following dizzys vote there. That's my thought process. I thought maybe it would help sort things out and maybe it did a little but we're all over the place and can't come to a consensus. I don't blame people for suspecting me as I haven't played up to par. I don't have much energy to process all this right now and there's no way I'm going to be up at like 5/6 am for eod. So adding a vote to jpic. I'll have to take a look and reevaluate where I want my votes.

[alexa]

unvote sabie vote LP

[DrWilgy]

i dont actually feel all that confident about linearpoint flipping mafia given they've felt like one of the hardest working slots on day 2 and the uplift in effort d1 to d2 is usually a pretty reliable tell.

@LinearPoint if u had a gun to fire with right now who do u shoot?

TSP

Possibly Wiggly just cuz their flip would say a lot, but TSP is Neeko's personal choice since Neeko has been saying she's found TSP's EoD bad.

Bullshit, no one would use this info even if it was given.

I'm dying and that's aight, but I still have yet to see where people are actually hunting me in a means that's actually fruitful. Now you've moved to 'Even if we are wrong we're right to yeet a town wilgy'

[alexa]

Honestly 2 Mafia on Ender at EoD when Ender had 3 votes isn't super likely so JPIC and Falcon are a bit more town off of that.

I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility. Ender had more votes on him but then people switched. Mafia probably didn't kill ender so they weren't planning on him flipping town today. Like they may have been setting up to mischop. Not all the mafia would want to be seen voting seanzie. Is it likely all 3 are Mafia? No but I wouldn't say it fully town clears either falcon or jpic.

I don't know this game is super hurting my brain. I figure I might as well claim and you can take from it what you will. Here's why I said this post.

I was the town vig shot on ender. My thought process there was alison and Sean both thought ender was scummy. Dizzy seemed to pushing for ender. I couldn't figure out a dizzy read so If ender ended up being scum then awesome. If he flipped town then it helped sort out dizzy which it did and then someone shot him and he flipped wolf. I thought this also made jpic and maybe falcon look bad for following dizzys vote there. That's my thought process. I thought maybe it would help sort things out and maybe it did a little but we're all over the place and can't come to a consensus. I don't blame people for suspecting me as I haven't played up to par. I don't have much energy to process all this right now and there's no way I'm going to be up at like 5/6 am for eod. So adding a vote to jpic. I'll have to take a look and reevaluate where I want my votes.

tbh i find the way sabie is talking about dizzy here townier/more unaligned than them shooting ender. because ender scumread dizzy and could easily be a maf extra shot despite POE'ness. but the way they're talking about dizzy feels not W/W to me

[DrWilgy]

unvote sabie vote LP

Alexa, can you tell me who your hard votes right now are? I keep seeing you unvote and move and move and unvote. Who are you not moving from?

[ilario]

Going back to my actual guts

[VOTE: Ender] aubergine

sell me

Read the first part of his iso and scan for the energy in it. If you have the time. Also his answer to me about me having a funeral for my emotion reading or whatever, that's maybe personal to me but it hit really weird.

@ilario what's pinged you on JPIC?

this interaction feels not W/W to me

His iso and some of his answers to me

Lmk what u think

[alexa]

unvote sabie vote LP

Alexa, can you tell me who your hard votes right now are? I keep seeing you unvote and move and move and unvote. Who are you not moving from?

im not moving from sig

outside of that i'm trying to figure things out so i can't really say there is no one i'm 100% not moving from, i'm just trying to get it right

[ilario]

I don't really have any scum reads, but I would straight up yeet Sloonei here. He probably doesn't want to play because he's mafia.

i really just struggle to see, based on everything i know of dizzy, that he makes this comment so early about sloon if sloon is his partner. like, i'd think he'd want to make sloon look good and not force this type of attention on him prior to it being a thing? i think sloon just has to be a villager here, or at least not mafia

Yeah I said something similar

Not partners imo dizzy was trying to pocket sloonei

[ilario]

@alexa why’s tsp scum? Isn’t he a top poster and some of his content felt okay?

[falcon45ca]

I don't get the 112 townreads

Dizzy flipped wolf

112 pushing a flipped wolf is NAI for her

Particular way their argument went looked not w/w

See, now that's something 112 is quite good at as scum actually.