Dr. Who Mafia - Night 12

[Chris]

LC was becoming a suspect of mine beforeally he thinks I no u-ed him.

[Epignosis]

If you think epi is civ then vote me but I guarantee after I am gone you willlynch him next followedby sabie (which no one else has pointed out). they are cyber.I am not cyber.nor am I a robot.

Your entire case against me is built around the notion that I am a role checker or that I am on a team with a role checker. Therefore the only way this statement makes any sense is if you are bad.

[Long Con]

With me, Chris cracked my master plan to kill him with my baddie teammates by analyzing my actions from the start of today. His detective mind suddenly came into focus when looking at the things I said and did, and he realized that I was just one cog in the baddie plan to finally end his life, and rid ourselves of this wretched thorn in our side. Because, you know, he was a big enough problem for me and my baddie team that we had to act fast, and openly, and together, to publicly take him out.

So you see, he didn't just suspect me for voting for him.

Linki: Oh, there you go. I was just going of what I remembered about his case where he named the whole Cyber team.

[Long Con]

LC was becoming a suspect of mine beforeally he thinks I no u-ed him.

"Beforeally"? I want to add that word to the insanifier.

[Hedgeowl]

Epi - what do you think of sabie saying she needs to read through things but knows enough to know that we are discussing lie detectors?
They would not waste 8 nights if they just check the one that says I am a good girl.

Actually, good girl is not a checkable statement. This type of behaviour is suspect to me. You were all over Epig for his statement, and yet you do the same type and want to be "Look, I'm a civvie. I have been ever so cooperative with a LD statement."

Yes, I'm sure the lie detector would like to spend 8 Nights checking those.

This is a valid statement Roxy.

I know I'm a little late to the press on this one, but I don't understand how Roxy can have a valid argument when her statements suck just as much as Epigs.

A LD role was seriously one of the hardest roles i have had. It takes forever to comb through posts and find something checkable i found. I dont think most of anyones coerced statements are useful, but i dont know how bea and bwt set the limits. Epi has since made multiple statements of i am not a robot etc. but i just dont much faith in his or anyone elses statement. What did peak my interest was sabies vote for chris, but the previous roxy vote. She seems to have been sick, but flying under the radar seems particularly apt. I woukd be interested to hear more from her today.

Hey guys still not feeling all that well. Anyway I'm gonna have to go through and read things. My current suspicion has been rox because she was so adament abiut the lie detector thing but wasn't making statements herself. Ill have to actually look backfor sure to make my decision though. Just want to have a vote in for now.

So from the story it sounds like Chris survived 2 nks? That seems weird. Voting him for now. I'll have to check back in later. Off to work.

She made only two posts in between these, so i d like to know what happened to change her mind. It feels like she is voting the way the thread reads and not of her own volition.

Linki I think the role checker point roxy made was useful, but i am not sure it would be you i would look to first. I actually think df and snow have my attention there more.

I did love the "i was too close" line.

[Chris]

I noticed LC gets condescending when he's a baddie and someone is on him. Almost like he can make anything I say lose all meaning by making fun of anything I say.

That's cool LC. It's a bit of a shit type tactic, but I've got thick skin. So, make fun all you want. I just hope other players see what I see.

[keys56000000000]

Chris: Don't panic, you're digging a hole for yourself. Don't make it easy for the mafia to hop on the bandwagon.

[Long Con]

I'm not even trying to do that, Chris. What part of what I said was inaccurate about your case? I was trying to be as straight-up as I could. What did I say that wasn't true?

[Hedgeowl]

Ok, so this is what i find interesting. This post was made by DF at 2:40pm. However, Epi and others have said the idea of made and Enri being teammates started with him.

After finally catching up, I do find both Epi and Dom to make compelling points regarding their respective nemeses. However, I agree with SVS that Made was very likely saved, and I think that if Enrique is bad, he's teamed with Made. I feel more confident about Made being a baddie than Enrique overall though.

These posts that Epi quoted start at 6:31pm

Enrique voted Made to save his own skin.

But Made hasn't voted Enrique.

And here 6:39pm. Well after DF has already mentioned the idea.

Made has defended the shit out of Enrique. Enrique doesn't think Made is bad either. In a game with one bad team, defending civilians is a logical strategy if you are bad. In a game of two or more bad teams, defending "civilians" is a risk because you could wind up defending someone on the other team.

But when it comes down to the votes, now that it's clearly between Made and Enrique, Enrique is SWIFT to vote Made to save himself, but Made won't vote Enrique.

Huh.

Addendum: If you had a teammate who couldn't be lynched, you'd be okay voting for him, right?

So Epi what I am wondering is did the idea come from you before DF's post? Df did address my question below and seemed to change his mind about the possible teammates.

DFaraday, Hedge's post actually reminded me about something I meant to comment on earlier.


Can you explain the following:

In this post, you said you didn't see anything about Made that caused suspicion. You said nothing about Made seemed baddie.

What changed when you made this post? You didn't make any posts about Made in the interim. I'm confused as to how you got to that thought.

The bandwagon that led to Snow Dog 1.0's death read to me like a save attempt, and I still wonder whether it was. That was the biggest thing which sent me in Made's direction (then his inconsistent behavior and self vote just dug him deeper in my view).

Hedge, I don't have any real grounds for believing that they are teammates, but I did (and do) feel pretty confident that Made was bad, and I was wary of Enrqiue. I had a thought that the shenanigans yesterday might have been some kind of a ploy between the two of them to ensure Made's survival, and thus thought the teammates idea had some merit. The more I think about it, the less Enrique's NK survival makes sense in that scenario, though.

Before anyone says anything about it: Yes, I'm changing my view on something. Because I thought about it further and didn't come to the same conclusion as I did before.

This was before he voted for enrique though and most of the thread seemed to agree they were very likely teammates after the save so i am a bit confused. I coudlnt find a vote post either. I am increasingly wary of dfarday and think him very likely a cyber.

[Black Rock]

Epi - what do you think of sabie saying she needs to read through things but knows enough to know that we are discussing lie detectors?
They would not waste 8 nights if they just check the one that says I am a good girl.

Actually, good girl is not a checkable statement. This type of behaviour is suspect to me. You were all over Epig for his statement, and yet you do the same type and want to be "Look, I'm a civvie. I have been ever so cooperative with a LD statement."

Yes, I'm sure the lie detector would like to spend 8 Nights checking those.

This is a valid statement Roxy.

I know I'm a little late to the press on this one, but I don't understand how Roxy can have a valid argument when her statements suck just as much as Epigs.

BR I can't remember but did you agree with Roxys cSe on Epig? I'm on my phone and screwing up my multiquoted posts so I don't really wanna check for that

I looked over her case, but I have my own theory on Epig Vs Enrique. My theory leaves Epig as neutral to me. He could be bad or good, I can't be sure.

Crap, I thought this posted an hour ago. Now I will catch up.

[Hedgeowl]

Actually, you know what? Disregard what I said. I thought about this more. If Chris is The Master, he will just survive this lynch anyway. So if he is, maybe we should see if he gets NKed again. Additionally, the strict focus on him today, while it left less for me to catch up, makes it easier for baddies to just skate by today and latch onto a Chris vote. And although I really don't think he is Sarah Jane, or even Jack, there is the possibility that he is in fact that role and the first killer was blocked. AND although I think Chris's defense is very unconvincing and inadequate, at least in my opinion, I reserve the opinion that it means he could still be a lone civvie, just a very, very misguided one.

I've also been really thinking about Rox. Her recent fixation on Epig 2.0 even though she was being hypocritical... in an effort to seem like she's genuinely baddie hunting. Then I thought about why I found her suspicious REALLY early in the game and I just don't know that I think she's legitimately baddie hunting this game... maybe she is, but I think she honestly is our best lead at a Cyber at this point. The remainder of the game other than Epig 2.0, she has suspected Hedgeowl HARD but then dropped it completely and I've asked her SEVERAL TIMES why she has and she has failed to address my concern. I wonder if it was maybe distancing or a convenient target and she was hoping to drum up this case on Epig 2.0 instead. In addition, she latched onto mine and S~V~S's case that Daisy was bad earlier in the game because she was convinced the fact that both of us agreeing meant we were onto something. Her behavior has been really latchy and sneaky this game. If you don't believe me, go look for yourself and see if I'm right or off the mark.

Additionally, potentially cracking the Cybermen makes more sense. And a main reason I was sticking with Chris and not voting her today is because I haven't had the time to properly look back at Rox's posts. But I'm not going to let that make me ignore my gut. So you know what? Screw it. I really think Rox is bad. If Chris really is The Master, let another NK determine that. Let's not waste a lynch today, even if he is, because it'll just fail anyway, and then we'll have to either lynch him again or NK him.

On this note, again, I realize I haven't had the time to build a proper case, but I feel more confident in voting for Roxy. So I am switching my vote to her. I think people should look at her in more detail if they have the time.

NOW I really have to go because I have so much to do. Be back later!

I agree with your assessment on Chris at this point. I think it likely he's the master, but could wait until tomorrow for that one. I am a bit confused on your Epi vs Roxy suspicions though. You suspected Epi based on Roxys case, but now think it was weak and suspect her for it as a Cyber? I am not sure i understand how that works. I obviously missed your earlier suspicion of her though. As regards her suspicion of me i thought it was because i was so absent and she thought i was playing like lost where i double -crossed her. She did the same to me though in her recent baddie win by buddying up to me, so i tend to think her civ when she suspects me and refuses to listen to reason.

Linki epi as neutral? Do you mean like a sedret role?

[Dom]

...where ad hominems are used ...

with lazy players... Later, eggheads.

You beat me to it.

If players vote for Chris based on this poor lynchtrain case, without offering much else, then yeah, that's lazy. That's not an ad hominem, because it's not something irrelevant to a case I'm making. The case I'm making is that some players are lazy, therefore it is apt to call them lazy. And I'm being sarcastic when I call this Chris lynchmob "eggheads". It's designed to mock their poor case. Again, not an ad hominem. I really think an English teacher of all people would know the difference, maybe you're just not a very good teacher.

Dom, do you ever have an original thought? Or do you just piggy-back on others all the time?

Holy shit, keys. I crusaded against made for a long long time. I have brought up several original points, asked lots of questions of players, and brought up a lot of topics. In addition, I was the first to ask the hosts about Chris's survival. You are mudslinging big time.

At least after I die someone surviving a NK will have one less civvies role to try to claim.

Good luck civvies folks, you'll need it.

You have three votes
Calm the hell down.

Actually, you know what? Disregard what I said. I thought about this more. If Chris is The Master, he will just survive this lynch anyway. So if he is, maybe we should see if he gets NKed again.

Chris did actually point that out, but it was used against him. The guy is hopeless at defending himself. But I for one believe him, 100%. He's a civ, move on.

Yes, o powerful and knowledgable one.

If you think epi is civ then vote me but I guarantee after I am gone you willlynch him next followedby sabie (which no one else has pointed out). they are cyber.I am not cyber.nor am I a robot.

Your entire case against me is built around the notion that I am a role checker or that I am on a team with a role checker. Therefore the only way this statement makes any sense is if you are bad.

Epig, can you explain what you mean by this? I am confused.

Epi - what do you think of sabie saying she needs to read through things but knows enough to know that we are discussing lie detectors?
They would not waste 8 nights if they just check the one that says I am a good girl.

Actually, good girl is not a checkable statement. This type of behaviour is suspect to me. You were all over Epig for his statement, and yet you do the same type and want to be "Look, I'm a civvie. I have been ever so cooperative with a LD statement."

Yes, I'm sure the lie detector would like to spend 8 Nights checking those.

This is a valid statement Roxy.

I know I'm a little late to the press on this one, but I don't understand how Roxy can have a valid argument when her statements suck just as much as Epigs.

BR I can't remember but did you agree with Roxys cSe on Epig? I'm on my phone and screwing up my multiquoted posts so I don't really wanna check for that

I looked over her case, but I have my own theory on Epig Vs Enrique. My theory leaves Epig as neutral to me. He could be bad or good, I can't be sure.

Crap, I thought this posted an hour ago. Now I will catch up.

Thank you!


I have a paper to write before AHS starts. If you see me posting in here, scold me and tell me to get back to work, please!

[Epignosis]

So Epi what I am wondering is did the idea come from you before DF's post? Df did address my question below and seemed to change his mind about the possible teammates.

If I am understanding your question correctly...

I made this post on Sat Oct 04, 2014 10:26 pm:

Epig, do you think my concerns with Made are valid?

English teacher fail.

I didn't directly address your question at all.

Initially, Made said he missed something I said, and subsequently said he misread it. I thought teammates had filled him in on something, and he screwed up. I pressured. Response: lashing out, no u, misrepresentation. Then, he got very angry, and that read as even more baddie. He seems cornered.

It has also been said that Made has been behaving differently than in other games. My sample size is small, but I'd say "lashing out, no u, misrepresentation" is par for the course when he's good.

If I am suspicious of Made, it's because he's defended Enrique, who moves around more than Bill Clinton's underwear.

The post you listed from DF is from Sun Oct 05, 2014 2:40 pm, after my Saturday response to Dom.

[Chris]

Chris: Don't panic, you're digging a hole for yourself. Don't make it easy for the mafia to hop on the bandwagon.

You're right keys. I give up. Even if I don't get lynched, my role is basically outted. So everyone should just vote for me, so I can come back civvie and MP or whoever next survives an NK will have one less civ role to hide behind.

Oh, and before I go, I'm shocked no one else pointed out MPs sudden about face when I told him he'd get some decent attention when I flip civ.

I actually LOLed.

[Gotrees]

Not caught up yet, but I'd just like to point out that the phrase "I am not a robot" might still reply as true even if it were said by a Cyberman.

From Wikipedia:

It is presumed (and often implied) that there are still organic components beneath their suits, meaning they are actually cyborgs, not robots: in The Tenth Planet, a Cyberman tells a group of humans that "our brains are just like yours", although by the time of Attack of the Cybermen (1985), their brains seem to have been replaced with electronics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyberman

[juliets]

Just a few things I want to put out there about Gotrees that crick my eybrow a bit.

First, we can't deny that Gotrees has been super helpful on the night polls that involved planets from Dr. Who. Gathering all that material and publishing commentary at the end of each group must have taken a long time. He also has posted some videos that are interesting but not directly related to what is happening in the game. So I have to ask, why hasn't his posting been as complete? He talks about catching up which excuses him from posting thoughts or doing any baddie hunting. If he can post all that material about the planets why can't he keep up?

Second, he indicates in this post he see's no connection between Enrique and Made, and says his own vote record is no better than Enriques, and finally he feels reluctant voting for made.

Man, I'm not certain on either of them.

Epig does a better job arguing his case than Dom does, but Enri does a better job arguing his case than Made does.

Are people assuming Made is the Emperor Dalek and cant get lynched? Someone mentioned it earlier: if that were the case, there would be no need to save him last night. Also, I don't see any connection between Enrique and Made. Frankly, other people have come across as closer to each other.

The most suspicious thing on Enrique to me is his trend of unlucky votes, but it would be pretty hypocritical for me to criticize him for that, considering my record isn't too great either. His survival of last night is also a bit odd, but it seems pretty certain that it would be possible for him to potentially survive that night as a civ (eg. if the Master was blocked).

I feel reluctant voting for Made, though, too. I don't entirely understand the argument against him.

The thing I'm ultimately falling back on to base this vote on is my experiences with them outside of the game, since I mostly know them in that context. I mentioned on one of the first days that Made seemed a bit off to me. Enrique seems more like his usual self. It's entirely possible that he's just a better liar, but that's what I'm going on for now. I really hope I'm right.

Third, Gotrees had this to say about Enrique (and MP) before the Enrique lynch. Note it begins with a soft complaint about how hard the game is to keep up with:

Man, even without a lot of discussion this game is too much for me.

To be perfectly honest, MP and Enrique both seem equally bad to me. And by that, I mean they both seem civ. But so does everyone else. They just seem less civ than most people. I really need to improve my baddie-detector.

The case against Enrique is pretty much set in stone, I think. I agree that Made's actions seem suspicious, but can Enrique be entirely blamed for that? It is possible that Made just wanted to go out with a bang or something, or as someone mentioned a few posts up, wanted to save himself from being exposed as a baddie in an almost-tie. I don't know.

(I cut off the rest of this quote which was about MP)

First he says that he sees MP and Enrique as civ, just less civ than others. I guess that means he see's them as bad? He also says MP and Enrique seems equally bad which I disagree with. In my opinion MP never seemed as bad as Enrique seemed. He then defends Enrique against the accusation that Enrique is on Made's team as evidenced by Made voting for himself. Again, in my opinion it seemed pretty obvious why Made voted for himself - to try and help save Enrique.

I know these issues don't feel meaty but like I said before, they've been stirring in the back of my mind. I'd like to hear from Gotrees and would especially like to know why he has a lot of time when he is putting something neutral in the thread (the info about the planets) but has not gotten more involved in some of our discussion except in that post where he talked about MP. I'd like responses to the other quotes but again, especially my first point.

[keys56000000000]

[quote="Dom"

Actually, you know what? Disregard what I said. I thought about this more. If Chris is The Master, he will just survive this lynch anyway. So if he is, maybe we should see if he gets NKed again.

Chris did actually point that out, but it was used against him. The guy is hopeless at defending himself. But I for one believe him, 100%. He's a civ, move on.

Yes, o powerful and knowledgable one. [/quote]

[keys56000000000]

EBWOP:

Actually, you know what? Disregard what I said. I thought about this more. If Chris is The Master, he will just survive this lynch anyway. So if he is, maybe we should see if he gets NKed again.

Chris did actually point that out, but it was used against him. The guy is hopeless at defending himself. But I for one believe him, 100%. He's a civ, move on.

Yes, o powerful and knowledgable one.

[DFaraday]

Ok, so this is what i find interesting. This post was made by DF at 2:40pm. However, Epi and others have said the idea of made and Enri being teammates started with him.

After finally catching up, I do find both Epi and Dom to make compelling points regarding their respective nemeses. However, I agree with SVS that Made was very likely saved, and I think that if Enrique is bad, he's teamed with Made. I feel more confident about Made being a baddie than Enrique overall though.

These posts that Epi quoted start at 6:31pm

Enrique voted Made to save his own skin.

But Made hasn't voted Enrique.

And here 6:39pm. Well after DF has already mentioned the idea.

Made has defended the shit out of Enrique. Enrique doesn't think Made is bad either. In a game with one bad team, defending civilians is a logical strategy if you are bad. In a game of two or more bad teams, defending "civilians" is a risk because you could wind up defending someone on the other team.

But when it comes down to the votes, now that it's clearly between Made and Enrique, Enrique is SWIFT to vote Made to save himself, but Made won't vote Enrique.

Huh.

Addendum: If you had a teammate who couldn't be lynched, you'd be okay voting for him, right?

So Epi what I am wondering is did the idea come from you before DF's post? Df did address my question below and seemed to change his mind about the possible teammates.

DFaraday, Hedge's post actually reminded me about something I meant to comment on earlier.


Can you explain the following:

In this post, you said you didn't see anything about Made that caused suspicion. You said nothing about Made seemed baddie.

What changed when you made this post? You didn't make any posts about Made in the interim. I'm confused as to how you got to that thought.

The bandwagon that led to Snow Dog 1.0's death read to me like a save attempt, and I still wonder whether it was. That was the biggest thing which sent me in Made's direction (then his inconsistent behavior and self vote just dug him deeper in my view).

Hedge, I don't have any real grounds for believing that they are teammates, but I did (and do) feel pretty confident that Made was bad, and I was wary of Enrqiue. I had a thought that the shenanigans yesterday might have been some kind of a ploy between the two of them to ensure Made's survival, and thus thought the teammates idea had some merit. The more I think about it, the less Enrique's NK survival makes sense in that scenario, though.

Before anyone says anything about it: Yes, I'm changing my view on something. Because I thought about it further and didn't come to the same conclusion as I did before.

This was before he voted for enrique though and most of the thread seemed to agree they were very likely teammates after the save so i am a bit confused. I coudlnt find a vote post either. I am increasingly wary of dfarday and think him very likely a cyber.

Sorry, I'm a bit unclear what you're wary of. Do you think I was trying to pass of Epi's idea as my own?

[juliets]

Chris, why did you vote for yourself? If you're a civ that's not the way to fight back allegations that you are baddie.

[Turnip Head]

Hey guys, really sorry for missing the votes etc. I've had some internet problems/phone problems the last few days so I've had almost no chance to mafia. I've got some time today though so I'm gonna catch up and share my thoughts.

[Long Con]

Chris, why did you vote for yourself? If you're a civ that's not the way to fight back allegations that you are baddie.

This kind of breakdown is just one of the consequences of ignoring the warning of Long Con. Take heed.

[Long Con]

With me, Chris cracked my master plan to kill him with my baddie teammates by analyzing my actions from the start of today. His detective mind suddenly came into focus when looking at the things I said and did, and he realized that I was just one cog in the baddie plan to finally end his life, and rid ourselves of this wretched thorn in our side. Because, you know, he was a big enough problem for me and my baddie team that we had to act fast, and openly, and together, to publicly take him out.

I noticed LC gets condescending when he's a baddie and someone is on him. Almost like he can make anything I say lose all meaning by making fun of anything I say.

That's cool LC. It's a bit of a shit type tactic, but I've got thick skin. So, make fun all you want. I just hope other players see what I see.

I just wanted to come back to this, I don't know how else you would expect me to talk about your case against me. I don't see how anything I said is not what you said. Was your accusation not that I am on the Cyber team with MP and Epig and Dom/Hedge and that we knew who you are and are trying to kill you because of it? So I called it a "master plan to kill you with my baddie teammates", I don't think that is anything but accurate, I wouldn't expect you to have a problem with it.

I basically say the same thing in the next sentence, in different language. And maybe I overextended after the "Because", since that was pure speculation on my part. I don't know the reason you think that I and my Cyber team felt the need to kill you in such a dramatic fashion (early vote/early lynch), but I'm pretty sure you yourself mentioned something about "The Cybermen tried to kill me because I'm getting too close."

So what, exactly, do you have a problem with here? Is it that the case sounds weird coming out of my mouth? Like it's far-fetched and wrong? Spoiler alert: I know that you are wrong, so when I talk about your wrong case, I'm going to probably sound like I think it's wrong! At least I didn't say you did or said something that you didn't do. I didn't misrepresent you at all, which is not the same courtesy you will get from everyone playing here. I know from experience. I am just telling it like it is, no more, no less.

Oh, and if you''d like to update your opinion on what exactly is happening and who the Cyber Head is based on recent revelations from the host and re-examining the role... I noticed that a few parts of your case were based on wrong assumptions about how the extra votes of the Cyber Head work. Specifically, you believed that it was more than a one-time use, evidenced by your belief that I affected the Epig lynch as the Cyber Head, and also planned to affect today's lynch. Also, you believed that the Cyber Head could spread out the votes away from his public vote, but it has been clarified that he cannot. Thirdly, understanding that the one-time-use extra votes only apply to the lynch directly after the night the Body is randomly found is important to consider.

[Dana]

Okay, first thing first. I want to sincerely apologize for being MIA for the past few days. I'm especially sorry to BWT and Bea for not participating as much as I should be in this great game that you both worked hard on. Midterm/project season has been kind of insane but I'm going to try as hard as I can to keep up and be more involved. I've been checking in to read the night and lynch posts, but as far as actual conversation, I'm still pretty far behind.

The one thing that I've seen that I think I should address as soon as possible was Nijuu's case against me has the wrong person. She says I have a lot of posts defending Snow Dog and then I voted for him, but I was speaking about Daisy (I had only said SD. I'm pretty sure I wrote out Snow Dog every time and only used SD to refer to Daisy). I didn't ever defend Snow Dog, which is why I was surprised about his lynch result because I actually did believe he was bad. I defended Daisy because I strongly believed she was good. I thought this was an important thing to bring up because it changes the situation greatly when you see that it was two different people.

Now back to catch up, and once again, I'm extremely sorry.

[Epignosis]

If you think epi is civ then vote me but I guarantee after I am gone you willlynch him next followedby sabie (which no one else has pointed out). they are cyber.I am not cyber.nor am I a robot.

Your entire case against me is built around the notion that I am a role checker or that I am on a team with a role checker. Therefore the only way this statement makes any sense is if you are bad.

Epig, can you explain what you mean by this? I am confused.

Roxy believes that I am a role checker or that I am on a team with a role checker, i.e., a Cyberman. I'm not, but she believes I am. Very well.

She says that if you think I'm civilian then vote for her. She guarantees that after she's dead you will lynch me next.

Now then, if Roxy gets lynched and is civilian, does that provide credence for her claim that I am a role checker or on a team with one? No. For her claim against me to have any merit whatsoever, she has to be bad.

To summarize it:

Roxy: Epignosis has to be a role checker or on a team with a role checker. That's how he knew Enrique was bad. If anyone disagrees with me, then lynch me, and then you'll see that I'm right.

[Turnip Head]

I think Epi2.0 and Roxy are both bad/rolechecked each other, lol. I actually feel more confident about Epi being bad though. He hasn't been the same since subbing back in, not as active in his accusations since Enrique died, plus all the other points raised about his elusiveness.

Don't quite know what to make of LC, yet. Still feeling queasy about Hedgeowl. And I don't think Chris is bad at all.

Juliets had a good post about Gotrees that I'm keeping in mind. Gotrees has been quiet outside of his extensive nightpoll posts.

[juliets]

Epi I've been mostly focused on the whole LD portion of the case against you but since that is cleared up I need to think about your baddie hunting. The claim against you seems fair - I haven't seen you baddie hunt in your normal aggressive style. The style you used with me, even though I was good. What's going on with the baddie-hunting since you subbed back in? If you've answered this amidst all the other lie detector stuff I missed it.

[Dom]

If you think epi is civ then vote me but I guarantee after I am gone you willlynch him next followedby sabie (which no one else has pointed out). they are cyber.I am not cyber.nor am I a robot.

Your entire case against me is built around the notion that I am a role checker or that I am on a team with a role checker. Therefore the only way this statement makes any sense is if you are bad.

Epig, can you explain what you mean by this? I am confused.

Roxy believes that I am a role checker or that I am on a team with a role checker, i.e., a Cyberman. I'm not, but she believes I am. Very well.

She says that if you think I'm civilian then vote for her. She guarantees that after she's dead you will lynch me next.

Now then, if Roxy gets lynched and is civilian, does that provide credence for her claim that I am a role checker or on a team with one? No. For her claim against me to have any merit whatsoever, she has to be bad.

To summarize it:

Roxy: Epignosis has to be a role checker or on a team with a role checker. That's how he knew Enrique was bad. If anyone disagrees with me, then lynch me, and then you'll see that I'm right.

I think you are purposefully taking Roxy literally when she clearly meant something else, tbh.



Juliets, I love your post about Gotrees. I hadn't thought of him at all.

TH, I haven't received any real feedback on this: last time Chris was a SK, he pulled a NO U on me for suspecting him. That's a large part of my suspicion on him. It was far less about him surviving two nks in one night and much more about him throwing anyone who questioned him's names into the baddie ring simply because they disagree with him and thus must be in a conspiracy to kill him.

[juliets]

EBWOP- Epi I meant to ask you to link me to something if you've already explained this.

[Epignosis]

If you think epi is civ then vote me but I guarantee after I am gone you willlynch him next followedby sabie (which no one else has pointed out). they are cyber.I am not cyber.nor am I a robot.

Your entire case against me is built around the notion that I am a role checker or that I am on a team with a role checker. Therefore the only way this statement makes any sense is if you are bad.

Epig, can you explain what you mean by this? I am confused.

Roxy believes that I am a role checker or that I am on a team with a role checker, i.e., a Cyberman. I'm not, but she believes I am. Very well.

She says that if you think I'm civilian then vote for her. She guarantees that after she's dead you will lynch me next.

Now then, if Roxy gets lynched and is civilian, does that provide credence for her claim that I am a role checker or on a team with one? No. For her claim against me to have any merit whatsoever, she has to be bad.

To summarize it:

Roxy: Epignosis has to be a role checker or on a team with a role checker. That's how he knew Enrique was bad. If anyone disagrees with me, then lynch me, and then you'll see that I'm right.

I think you are purposefully taking Roxy literally when she clearly meant something else, tbh.

Clearly? Then please tell me what she meant. Because I'm not seeing it.

[Epignosis]

Epi I've been mostly focused on the whole LD portion of the case against you but since that is cleared up I need to think about your baddie hunting. The claim against you seems fair - I haven't seen you baddie hunt in your normal aggressive style. The style you used with me, even though I was good. What's going on with the baddie-hunting since you subbed back in? If you've answered this amidst all the other lie detector stuff I missed it.

I don't think this reasoning is fair at all: I'm either aggressive and therefore bad (see Ep1) or not aggressive enough and therefore bad.
I was adamant about Enrique getting lynched when I came back, and argued hard against him. Once Enrique was finally lynched (on Day 5), I've had to defend myself, and that's all I really got to do Day 6.

[juliets]

ok, thanks for the response and the link Epi

[Chris]

<snip>
TH, I haven't received any real feedback on this: last time Chris was a SK, he pulled a NO U on me for suspecting him. That's a large part of my suspicion on him. It was far less about him surviving two nks in one night and much more about him throwing anyone who questioned him's names into the baddie ring simply because they disagree with him and thus must be in a conspiracy to kill him.

<snip> I understand that you're looking at Chris being the Master because he survived 2 NKs, but do you think it would make sense for the Master to vote for you later rather than sooner given how close it was? I'm looking at Chris for the same reason as I think you are, but I am unsure why you think the master would vote so early for you.

Dom, I threw your name out there as the 2nd part of an "or". (As is Hedgie or Dom) YOu're acting as if I made a case on you. I wanted to voice who I, at the moment, thought the Cybermen were/are. It's not an accusation.

That's a large part of my suspicion on him. It was far less about him surviving two nks in one night and much more about him throwing anyone who questioned him's names into the baddie ring simply because they disagree with him

You see, you're lying there. YOu said earlier in the response to Epig that you suspect me for the same reason he did, because I survived 2 NKs.

You reiterate here too:

<snip>

BR, why do you suppose I'm getting more suspicion than you or Elo got? Even MP, who survived a NK, suspects me because I survived a NK. How much sense does that make?

You survived... two...
<snip>

But now here you are saying it was because I no u-ed you. But, like I said, it was barely even mentioning your name. I had a touch of bad feeling about you and Hedgie to begin with. I had been on MP as a baddie since the beginning of the game. LC got my attention when he started threatening anyone asking for information in the thread.

Then after 2 of the 4 ways a player can be killed at night were used against me, and then MP and LC come right in and lay votes on me, I'd say I was reasonably paranoid that I was wanted dead. SO I wanted to get my thoughts out. SO I mentioned you:

<snip>
My thoughts on who the Cybermen are?

The Cyber Controller - MP
The Cyberman Head - LC
Cyberman 1 & 2 - Epig and either Hedgie or Dom.

<snip>

That's it. That's what Dom got all worked up about. (IF you want to see the whole post, it's rather large, it's here: http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 900#p90669)

My point is, in that huge post, I say Dom's name one time, and it's enough for him to vote me.

So which is it Dom, do you suspect me because I survived two NKs, or because I mentioned your name once in a 1000 word post?

[Dom]

<snip>
TH, I haven't received any real feedback on this: last time Chris was a SK, he pulled a NO U on me for suspecting him. That's a large part of my suspicion on him. It was far less about him surviving two nks in one night and much more about him throwing anyone who questioned him's names into the baddie ring simply because they disagree with him and thus must be in a conspiracy to kill him.

<snip> I understand that you're looking at Chris being the Master because he survived 2 NKs, but do you think it would make sense for the Master to vote for you later rather than sooner given how close it was? I'm looking at Chris for the same reason as I think you are, but I am unsure why you think the master would vote so early for you.

Dom, I threw your name out there as the 2nd part of an "or". (As is Hedgie or Dom) YOu're acting as if I made a case on you. I wanted to voice who I, at the moment, thought the Cybermen were/are. It's not an accusation.

That's a large part of my suspicion on him. It was far less about him surviving two nks in one night and much more about him throwing anyone who questioned him's names into the baddie ring simply because they disagree with him

You see, you're lying there. YOu said earlier in the response to Epig that you suspect me for the same reason he did, because I survived 2 NKs.

You reiterate here too:

<snip>

BR, why do you suppose I'm getting more suspicion than you or Elo got? Even MP, who survived a NK, suspects me because I survived a NK. How much sense does that make?

You survived... two...
<snip>

But now here you are saying it was because I no u-ed you. But, like I said, it was barely even mentioning your name. I had a touch of bad feeling about you and Hedgie to begin with. I had been on MP as a baddie since the beginning of the game. LC got my attention when he started threatening anyone asking for information in the thread.

Then after 2 of the 4 ways a player can be killed at night were used against me, and then MP and LC come right in and lay votes on me, I'd say I was reasonably paranoid that I was wanted dead. SO I wanted to get my thoughts out. SO I mentioned you:

<snip>
My thoughts on who the Cybermen are?

The Cyber Controller - MP
The Cyberman Head - LC
Cyberman 1 & 2 - Epig and either Hedgie or Dom.

<snip>

That's it. That's what Dom got all worked up about. (IF you want to see the whole post, it's rather large, it's here: http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 900#p90669)

My point is, in that huge post, I say Dom's name one time, and it's enough for him to vote me.

So which is it Dom, do you suspect me because I survived two NKs, or because I mentioned your name once in a 1000 word post?

Could it, be, oh I don't know, like I said... both?

[Dom]

I have brought it up so many times because literally no one has had anything to say about it. Keys says I jumped on a suspicion and accused me of not having original thought-- both false as not only did I say something about Chris surviving the NKs first, but because I brought in my experience with him in past games.

[Chris]

But you just said that you didn't suspect me for surviving the NKs.

I dunno. Just make up your mind on what reason you want to make up to vote me.

And:

not only did I say something about Chris surviving the NKs first, but because I brought in my experience with him in past games.

Slow down there you baddie hunting madman. You brought up something that was clearly said in the night post, and you brought up a different game were I was a serial killer to support your claim I'm a serial killer here? Can I go back to the other game to defend myself? Because it's kinda tough to defend something you did in another game.

Let me try...

I'm not the serial killer from Six Feet Under anymore.

[Chris]

Notice how Dom ignores the main part of my post back there, where he's voting me for mentioning his name once.

One time.

[S~V~S]

While I still suspect Epignosis, I think getting to the bottom of the Chris issue is important. I never get the "well, if he is bad, he won't die anyway, so why bother?" arguments. Why would the baddies kill him? He takes attention off of them~ we aren't discussing anyone but Chris today, and we likely won't until he is lynched. So let's just do it.

If he does not die, we will have to lynch him again tomorrow, but it is what it is.

The main thing that gives me pause is Keys. He's acting waaaaaaaayyyy too sure about Chris. Is it his gut, or does he know for sure? If Chris flips civ, I might want to take a look at Keys. He has been buddying with Chris most of the game, and I think if Keys had a role check, he might well check Chris ASAP.

Contrary to what some people are saying, I think LC looks civ so far. He has this insincere tone when he's bad, and I am not seeing it here. And I think he makes some good points about Chris, too. Plus, I doubt Chris would replace in for Sarah Jane, or even Captain Jack.

So I am going to vote Chris, and see if Epi gets his baddie hunting cap back on now that he has gone a whole cycle without needing to defend

Linki~ I read his posts, and that is an oversimplification, Chris.

[Dom]

But you just said that you didn't suspect me for surviving the NKs.

I dunno. Just make up your mind on what reason you want to make up to vote me.

And:

not only did I say something about Chris surviving the NKs first, but because I brought in my experience with him in past games.

Slow down there you baddie hunting madman. You brought up something that was clearly said in the night post, and you brought up a different game were I was a serial killer to support your claim I'm a serial killer here? Can I go back to the other game to defend myself? Because it's kinda tough to defend something you did in another game.

Let me try...

I'm not the serial killer from Six Feet Under anymore.

that's nice chris
my point is that you are acting similarly to that game. stop playing dumb. you know what i am getting at. you have a history of pulling a no u as a serial killer.
i'm done discussing this.

Notice how Dom ignores the main part of my post back there, where he's voting me for mentioning his name once.

One time.

oh my god
lol

[Dom]

I should write my paper anyway. Bie for now y'all.

[Chris]

SVS, did you miss the part where I said I was trying to get into the game before it even started?

Why would I review a role and decide whether or not I wanted it? I wanted it. They needed a replacement for rey, I took it.

You have an incorrect assumption on how I would approach a game.

Also, you seem rather fippant about wanting to lynch a civ...

[Chris]

SO, just so I have this straight, SVS, you feelings that I'm The Master are based on my surviving and that I wouldn't take any role less than an Indy killer role to replace in? How do I defend against that?

And why can't I be a civ who had a NK protection? Why do I have to be The Master?

[Chris]

Well, I'm voting Roxy at this point just to try to save my own ass.

*votes Roxy*

[keys56000000000]

SVS, I don't know for sure. But there's a lot of evidence that points towards Chris's innocence. The unlikely hood of reywaS giving up a good role. Chris's lack of direction. Poor suspicions, panicked defenses. Doesn't bear the signs of someone being guided by teammates in any way whatsoever. The fact that Strax's kill didn't go through on Chris, a certainty for the first three civvies he targets.

Why are you voting Chris? I'm looking very hard at Chris voters.

[juliets]

I have decided not to vote for Chris because I think earlier today he was sounding like a desperate civvie. If he hadn't taken that vote off himself I probably would have voted for him because what's the use if you're going to vote for your self.

The Roxy vote has gained steam today and unfortunately I don't have enough time to review her posts and do any research, so I will not be voting for her today either. I spent my time on Chris, Gotrees and a little on Epi.

So instead I'm going to go ahead and vote someone I am personally suspicious of and that's Gotrees. I don't know why he didn't address my post when I posted it because he was in the thread. Plus I gave him a heads up this morning that I would be looking at him today. My vote is saying "heads up Gotrees this is serious, you better come and respond". I doubt that others will vote with me today but I do want to make sure he's on everyone's radar.

[S~V~S]

SVS, I don't know for sure. But there's a lot of evidence that points towards Chris's innocence. The unlikely hood of reywaS giving up a good role. Chris's lack of direction. Poor suspicions, panicked defenses. Doesn't bear the signs of someone being guided by teammates in any way whatsoever. The fact that Strax's kill didn't go through on Chris, a certainty for the first three civvies he targets.

Why are you voting Chris? I'm looking very hard at Chris voters.

Look all you want, I think the points brought up on him and his survival are good ones.

Reywas has quit pretty much every game he has signed up for in the last few months. I think he is Mafia-ed out~ I replaced him as the Creeping Death, one of the top roles, in the recent Recruitment game at RM, that's a weak argument. I don't think Chris has teammates, I agree there. First he implied he was a surviving civ, then he implied that it was Strax' civ kill fail. Then he said, "Well, if I am the Master, the lynch would be wasted on me". He is over simplifying the arguments against him. He just does not sound sincere to me.

And Chris, I just don't think you're one of the civs with a possible night survival. I don't think you would have taken Sarah Jane, it is a weak role with no night powers. Captain Jack, maybe. But the coincidence of a fail Strax kil on you on the same night as a fail baddie kill... I am having problems there.

[DFaraday]

I can't stick around (I'm hosting a Princess Bride night!), so I'm not going to try to reread Roxy right now. I do still think something is up with Chris, and his "If I'm the Master, it won't even work" thing just made me feel even more pinged.

*Votes Chris*

[Snow Dog]

Hi folks. Just read a few pages and it's late here. For me it's between Chris and Roxy. Yes Chris keys, stare as much as you like. There are many uncertains about Chris though. He's all ovre the place in his posts. I admit Strax could have failed because he is civ, or another reason, being the master for example as previously opined. I take no notice whatsoevever of keys certainty he is civ.

Roxy i have already had my suspicions of. she hasn't answered a single one of my posts. i feel she is bad. maybe a cyber herself.

I will have a shower and think about this.

[S~V~S]

Also, Keys, I see you voted Roxy. Do you suspect her? This was the one time you mentioned her, last Saturday:

Who's vouched for whom? I must have missed all the vouchings.

MP, I've gone over your MM case and it's not bad at all. I especially agree with the assessment of his behaviour during the Enri lynch.

I too share your concern re: Hedgeowl. More likely than not that there's something to that.

Rox, I don't know about your case against Epig2. It's really hard for me to get a good reading on people that replace back into games. I'm gonna give him some time.

[keys56000000000]

First he implied he was a surviving civ, then he implied that it was Strax' civ kill fail. Then he said, "Well, if I am the Master, the lynch would be wasted on me"

SVS, don't you see how weak this is?

He implied two different things so as not to out anybody. And that quote - Chris replied with that because he was trying to show you the flaw in your own logic. Because he thinks you might be a mafioso trying to finish the job. It was his attempt at defending himself.

But you're twisting it, using it against him.