Veggie Wars Mafia [TOWN WIN]

[EnderWiggin]

Current votes for the record:

Wilgy - 2 (falc, MR)
falcon - 2 (NAA, LC)
MR - 2 (Porscha, Wilgy)
Seanzie - 2 (Ender, Nook)

No other votes

Also MR can literally only be mafia with Falcon here due to VC. If MR was mafia with anyone else then there would not have been a 4 way rand and MR would not have been close. I do not think that is the team.

In fact, I don't believe any wolves were in this rand, for similar reasons.

If it is Falcon/MR why didn't they just vote Seanzie earlier? In actual fact I think MR/Falcon is the least likely team from that rand because MR started the votes on Falcon in a volatile situation.

So you don't think they can be a team at all and I only think that is the only logical team that MR makes sense to be in otherwise he would have just put his vote back on Falcon so he wouldn't be in the rand.

I mean I straight up think MR is town from EOD yesterday.

Falc I don't think is so cleared from that because EOD was kinda quiet. It was Me/LC/MR/A little bit of NAA/Falc from memory.

I don't mind killing Falcon first because it's entirely possible he's mafia from my backread. I am just reading you as much more likely to be mafia than him, and I don't see you paired.

I agree to this that I can’t see falcon or ender paired, and potentially a flip on one could be enlightening about the other.

I’m not sure I see the case on Ender yet; his behaviour seems pretty standard of his town game for me but I can’t actually recall his mafia game either. So I guess I’d prefer falcon of the two based on my gut feelings here based on past play with him.

I'll happily admit my current play is within both town and scum range. But the problem is most of my play is exactly that lol.

[EnderWiggin]

Like the main thing that's wolfy on Falcon is just the fact that his vote has been on Ender all day and I don't remember him doing anything else.

Which is close to Fleabag where he just voted Illario all game but yeah.

Like what is everyone else seeing that I'm not seeing?

Why is it scummy to vote scum?




Ender's scum btw

I think he's town, really.

Why

His attempts to gain any sort of read with what little the game had to offer early, kind of his reaction to me townreading him for the least amount needed at that moment, a bit of his approach to me felt like town.

Probably most confident read currently.

You're making me increasingly nervous

I find this exchange interesting given Nanook was the one killed. This plus LC’s vote on ender with comments like this

Also, Ender, I can't read you anyways dude.

Best to leave it to someone else.

Not to take the blame off me FYI, just leave me less annoyed with myself for fucking up.

I'm putting Fingersplints at mild town for being not worried about the trend disagreeing with my thought about LC's swap and pointing it out again.

[EnderWiggin]

TBH, I'm kind of surprised that Ender isn't voting Mac, because I see no way Mac and Ender can both be town.

Fun fact: I think we are at this juncture.

In honesty, I remember the times that Mac and I have instantly townread each other early are almost unanimously when one of us was wolf. (Disclaimer: Haven't checked so might be spotty memory.)

I do know that as wolf Mac tends to let me be a townread more because he was able to pocket me semi-successfully at times. I don't recall a game where as wolf he intentionally aggro'd onto me out of the gate.

[EnderWiggin]

I'll admit I had an expectation for town!Mac to at least sus me somewhat and would've probably pressured onto him if he didn't.

[Lime Coke]

I don't even remember what Mac's reads even were.

[EnderWiggin]

TBH, I'm kind of surprised that Ender isn't voting Mac, because I see no way Mac and Ender can both be town.

Why? Because Mac suspects Ender?

It's not THAT he suspects him, it's HOW he approached the read. Mac came in with a very clear intention to take over the thread, and succeeded.

Oh, you're playing now? Excellent


What's your take on Porscha & fingers?

Eh, I don't like this. NAA has given a lot of thoughts on you. Are some of them kinda reachy? Sure, but he gave reasons for him pushing you. Pretending like he hasn't and only just now started "playing" is pretty meh.

Kinda starting to think NAA might be on to something.

This is a good post from Seanzie.

[NotAnAxehole]

Welp, looks like I gotta self près onto enderwagon

Why did you feel the need to self pres less than 12 hours into the game NAA?

It was a joke to motivate more people to vote on obv!mafia Falcon.

[Lime Coke]

I'm not feeling particularly good about this game at all.

[EnderWiggin]

TBH, I'm kind of surprised that Ender isn't voting Mac, because I see no way Mac and Ender can both be town.

Why? Because Mac suspects Ender?

It's not THAT he suspects him, it's HOW he approached the read. Mac came in with a very clear intention to take over the thread, and succeeded.

Is that not standard for Mac though?

I don't understand how that matters, if Mac is muted 1 day, and has a confidently incorrect read the next day, why should my reaction be anything other than to vote Mac? Should I give Mac a free ride to victory every game because he's within his meta while completely ignoring his game impact and accuracy?

I treat this type of play from Mac (yes, within his meta) as a difference check between him and Ender. I think it's the only way to play, otherwise as Mac... Just do this every game, profit as scum, and it likely doesn't affect town win rate all that much because you allow other people to take the D1 kill and just swoop in with what you want D2.

I'm going to point out that you should be aware that Mac's D1/D2 sus on me is exists in most games regardless of our alignments.

He often gets to a correct read later on (But not always), but trying to make it out like it's a Diff-check is a bit forced.

(Side note: This is probably town NAA though.)

[EnderWiggin]

I don’t think LC and falcon are paired, so if falcon flips mafia than LC is ok

Nod nod

[EnderWiggin]

Mac caught me so now I'm f-f-f-frozen

I do like me some frozen vegetables.

[NotAnAxehole]

TBH, I'm kind of surprised that Ender isn't voting Mac, because I see no way Mac and Ender can both be town.

Why? Because Mac suspects Ender?

It's not THAT he suspects him, it's HOW he approached the read. Mac came in with a very clear intention to take over the thread, and succeeded.

Is that not standard for Mac though?

I don't understand how that matters, if Mac is muted 1 day, and has a confidently incorrect read the next day, why should my reaction be anything other than to vote Mac? Should I give Mac a free ride to victory every game because he's within his meta while completely ignoring his game impact and accuracy?

I treat this type of play from Mac (yes, within his meta) as a difference check between him and Ender. I think it's the only way to play, otherwise as Mac... Just do this every game, profit as scum, and it likely doesn't affect town win rate all that much because you allow other people to take the D1 kill and just swoop in with what you want D2.

I'm going to point out that you should be aware that Mac's D1/D2 sus on me is exists in most games regardless of our alignments.

He often gets to a correct read later on (But not always), but trying to make it out like it's a Diff-check is a bit forced.

(Side note: This is probably town NAA though.)

My Mac read isn't related to you and is purely related to Mac. All of that is irrelevant given that I think Falcon is obvious mafia, and Mac went from voting you to voting obv!town MR.

[NotAnAxehole]

The "difference" is purely a Mac read, not an Ender-Mac read.

[EnderWiggin]

[VOTE: Seanzie] aubergine

LC, your vote switches are definitely raising my hackles.

[EnderWiggin]

Welp, looks like I gotta self près onto enderwagon

Why did you feel the need to self pres less than 12 hours into the game NAA?

It was a joke to motivate more people to vote on obv!mafia Falcon.

Lol alright.

[Lime Coke]

I barely vote as mafia in general.

I have a weird feeling about something.

[EnderWiggin]

[VOTE: Falcon] aubergine for now

[MacDougall]

I'm gonna be pretty mad if we have NAA in gamethrowing mode tbh.

[EnderWiggin]

I barely vote as mafia in general.

I have a weird feeling about something.

I'm not going to lie, I actually don't remember your vote habits at all.

Just feels like your vote changes are really weird.

[Porscha]

I can't believe my boy wilgy has been lost so early he was only strong town read ;(

uuuuh I still don't have a reason to not really still read MR maf like I did day 1

hate the way NAA is playing on his reads

I felt nanook was a decent town read so I'm not surprised they died n1

if mafia are smart they will keep me around b/c I'm bad at this game and probably won't make strong pushes

also can't believe dunya said with cucumber dead their hopes of innuendos goes out the door like ... damn that hurts me (a sweet, innocent eggplant) T.T

Unnecessary over-explainy wolf read?

yeah single sentences that reveal particularly nothing substantial does not equal over explainy wolf read. nice reach though

[Porscha]

I barely vote as mafia in general.

I have a weird feeling about something.

what is your strange feeling my child

[falcon45ca]

I find it doubtful that both Maf are on my wagon, and equally as doubtful that my wagon is pure.

[NotAnAxehole]

I'm gonna be pretty mad if we have NAA in gamethrowing mode tbh.

If my read is bad, it's game throwing, if your ambiguous read is bad, people need to get off your back .

I actually don't mind banter, but you need to pick a topic that doesn't come up literally every game.

[EnderWiggin]

I can't believe my boy wilgy has been lost so early he was only strong town read ;(

uuuuh I still don't have a reason to not really still read MR maf like I did day 1

hate the way NAA is playing on his reads

I felt nanook was a decent town read so I'm not surprised they died n1

if mafia are smart they will keep me around b/c I'm bad at this game and probably won't make strong pushes

also can't believe dunya said with cucumber dead their hopes of innuendos goes out the door like ... damn that hurts me (a sweet, innocent eggplant) T.T

Unnecessary over-explainy wolf read?

yeah single sentences that reveal particularly nothing substantial does not equal over explainy wolf read. nice reach though

I don't know if I really believe that read to be the case but to explain my thought as I read it:
Your lines add little to the game while looking contribute-y, which is a semi-common wolf tactic to participate in the game. I call it "Over explain-y" because it is taking the amount of information a villager usually feels like providing and adding more because wolves (more-so inexperienced wolves but still) feel the need to add more because they aren't sure if they've said enough to look villagery.

[falcon45ca]

Am I crazy to see a world where it's Porscha & fingers?

[falcon45ca]

I'm gonna be pretty mad if we have NAA in gamethrowing mode tbh.

If my read is bad, it's game throwing, if your ambiguous read is bad, people need to get off your back .

I actually don't mind banter, but you need to pick a topic that doesn't come up literally every game.

Oh, don't get him started on Vegemite, mate

[NotAnAxehole]

I'm gonna be pretty mad if we have NAA in gamethrowing mode tbh.

If my read is bad, it's game throwing, if your ambiguous read is bad, people need to get off your back .

I actually don't mind banter, but you need to pick a topic that doesn't come up literally every game.

Oh, don't get him started on Vegemite, mate

[EnderWiggin]

Am I crazy to see a world where it's Porscha & fingers?

Yes.

If I step back and assume it isn't you, I probably want to look at LC and maybe re-eval MR. Porscha is possible.

I do want to defend fingers because at least this day phase I've vibed with her content, which tends towards town more than not.

[EnderWiggin]

I did like MR's EOD, though, which makes me feel like I'm re-evalling MR due to pressure of Mac + the not great response. :/

[NotAnAxehole]

Am I crazy to see a world where it's Porscha & fingers?

Not crazy. But for today I'm not considering that based on Nanook reads.

[Lime Coke]

I barely vote as mafia in general.

I have a weird feeling about something.

I'm not going to lie, I actually don't remember your vote habits at all.

Just feels like your vote changes are really weird.

I'm also probably feeling off right now because my confidence is shot. Like I don't feel great at all.

[EnderWiggin]

Honestly the fact that my dumb read of NAA town feels like it's right is probably one of my stronger reads atm.

[EnderWiggin]

I barely vote as mafia in general.

I have a weird feeling about something.

I'm not going to lie, I actually don't remember your vote habits at all.

Just feels like your vote changes are really weird.

I'm also probably feeling off right now because my confidence is shot. Like I don't feel great at all.

Just come off a bad game?

[Porscha]

I can't believe my boy wilgy has been lost so early he was only strong town read ;(

uuuuh I still don't have a reason to not really still read MR maf like I did day 1

hate the way NAA is playing on his reads

I felt nanook was a decent town read so I'm not surprised they died n1

if mafia are smart they will keep me around b/c I'm bad at this game and probably won't make strong pushes

also can't believe dunya said with cucumber dead their hopes of innuendos goes out the door like ... damn that hurts me (a sweet, innocent eggplant) T.T

Unnecessary over-explainy wolf read?

yeah single sentences that reveal particularly nothing substantial does not equal over explainy wolf read. nice reach though

I don't know if I really believe that read to be the case but to explain my thought as I read it:
Your lines add little to the game while looking contribute-y, which is a semi-common wolf tactic to participate in the game. I call it "Over explain-y" because it is taking the amount of information a villager usually feels like providing and adding more because wolves (more-so inexperienced wolves but still) feel the need to add more because they aren't sure if they've said enough to look villagery.

oh okay I understand better now. no, the issue is that it's only day 2 with no useful flip or mech info, most people aren't giving more than 2 reads at any given moment, and you fail to consider that I suck ass at forum mafia so that's really just the most I can offer

plus I did at least try to follow up in more detail with votes on falcon, pushing LC, etc

the most info I said is that I still maf read MR, hate how NAA was playing. both still true as well. you can go back and see wilgy was my only town read so I didnt make that up out of thin air and have been consistent. I guess my comment about nanook wasn't entirely necessary but it was a sincere thought i had so I threw it in there to begin the day since it's not like I had a ton to work off of until fingers, mac, seanzie all joining in. hope my useless posts make more sense b/c whether i'm mafia or town they're probs gonna be about the same and as in any game I've played here I will still advise to generally read me as a stupid town and not a slanking mafia

[NotAnAxehole]

Honestly the fact that my dumb read of NAA town feels like it's right is probably one of my stronger reads atm.

I live in a permanent state of obvi town.

[Lime Coke]

I barely vote as mafia in general.

I have a weird feeling about something.

I'm not going to lie, I actually don't remember your vote habits at all.

Just feels like your vote changes are really weird.

I'm also probably feeling off right now because my confidence is shot. Like I don't feel great at all.

Just come off a bad game?

I've been playing in Forum/Fortress of Lies while I was banned...so multiple.

[Porscha]

Am I crazy to see a world where it's Porscha & fingers?

no cap, and this says absolutely nothing about fingers, but I'm way too trash at this game to have the game state this massively confused. I think a veteran player or 2 are wolves

[Porscha]

like I would have to be doing absolutely no leg work and town ruining this game for themselves b/c the only mafia read i've given is MR and it's obviously not convincing anybody

[EnderWiggin]

I barely vote as mafia in general.

I have a weird feeling about something.

I'm not going to lie, I actually don't remember your vote habits at all.

Just feels like your vote changes are really weird.

I'm also probably feeling off right now because my confidence is shot. Like I don't feel great at all.

Just come off a bad game?

I've been playing in Forum/Fortress of Lies while I was banned...so multiple.

Alexa please play "Cell Block Tango"

[NotAnAxehole]

like I would have to be doing absolutely no leg work and town ruining this game for themselves b/c the only mafia read i've given is MR and it's obviously not convincing anybody

I'm probably missing something, because I think MR is lock town and I've recently developed a solid system for reading him.

[NotAnAxehole]

I'm going to now deliver my patent-pending list read. Each of these lists contains at least 1 mafia:

List 1:
Seanzie
LC
Mac
Enderwiggin

List 2:
Falcon
Mac

If you can figure out where this read comes from, props to you.

[Porscha]

like I would have to be doing absolutely no leg work and town ruining this game for themselves b/c the only mafia read i've given is MR and it's obviously not convincing anybody

I'm probably missing something, because I think MR is lock town and I've recently developed a solid system for reading him.

I mean, I'm down to be convinced otherwise, but the one other game I played with them I was very back and forth on whether I was town or scum reading them and I'm wondering if MR always plays in this aloof, doesnt care to be useful type of way frequently. I wouldn't know how to tell the difference between his maf or town play

just haven't seen anything from MR that makes him analyzable except his vote day 1 and then slanking so. idk. if you have the system to help me read MR, feel free to explain

[NotAnAxehole]

like I would have to be doing absolutely no leg work and town ruining this game for themselves b/c the only mafia read i've given is MR and it's obviously not convincing anybody

I'm probably missing something, because I think MR is lock town and I've recently developed a solid system for reading him.

I mean, I'm down to be convinced otherwise, but the one other game I played with them I was very back and forth on whether I was town or scum reading them and I'm wondering if MR always plays in this aloof, doesnt care to be useful type of way frequently. I wouldn't know how to tell the difference between his maf or town play

just haven't seen anything from MR that makes him analyzable except his vote day 1 and then slanking so. idk. if you have the system to help me read MR, feel free to explain

I think being useful is a matter of perspective.

Ok, so given the second bit, I'm sticking to "I'm right" because he has definitive town tells that I'm not going to get into here, and he's already done those town tells. I've used very similar reads to great success on Scotty / DrWilgy if you've been following my recent body of work. Albeit, Scotty didn't town tell D1 in the last game we played which lead to a close call, but I got there in the end.

[NotAnAxehole]

Also, for all of those fence-sitters / nay-sayers, here's a past instance of my list read in play:

viewtopic.php?p=910113#p910113

It was accurate then, and it's accurate now.

[Porscha]

like I would have to be doing absolutely no leg work and town ruining this game for themselves b/c the only mafia read i've given is MR and it's obviously not convincing anybody

I'm probably missing something, because I think MR is lock town and I've recently developed a solid system for reading him.

I mean, I'm down to be convinced otherwise, but the one other game I played with them I was very back and forth on whether I was town or scum reading them and I'm wondering if MR always plays in this aloof, doesnt care to be useful type of way frequently. I wouldn't know how to tell the difference between his maf or town play

just haven't seen anything from MR that makes him analyzable except his vote day 1 and then slanking so. idk. if you have the system to help me read MR, feel free to explain

I think being useful is a matter of perspective.

Ok, so given the second bit, I'm sticking to "I'm right" because he has definitive town tells that I'm not going to get into here, and he's already done those town tells. I've used very similar reads to great success on Scotty / DrWilgy if you've been following my recent body of work. Albeit, Scotty didn't town tell D1 in the last game we played which lead to a close call, but I got there in the end.

yeah it is a matter of perspective and my perspective is extremely limited so I can see why there'd be a block there.

I'll take your word for it that MR is giving you his town reads since I don't think you and MR would be partnered

[NotAnAxehole]

I think - if Mac is town - Which is a BIG caveat, this game is solved.

[NotAnAxehole]

Well, not entirely true, we only have 1 miss left.

[falcon45ca]

[VOTE: MR] aubergine

[Master Radishes]

@MacDougall why are you voting obv!town MR?

MR is literally and unequivocally the scummiest player in this game on play and nowhere near obvious town status.

@Master Radishes chime in here plz.

Sure: you're wrong.

Or maybe you're right, I dunno, but you've never been particularly good at reading me iirc, so you're still wrong.

[Master Radishes]

like I would have to be doing absolutely no leg work and town ruining this game for themselves b/c the only mafia read i've given is MR and it's obviously not convincing anybody

I'm probably missing something, because I think MR is lock town and I've recently developed a solid system for reading him.

You called me Mafia last game we played, when I was in fact Town.