Veggie Wars Mafia [TOWN WIN]

[Master Radishes]

like I would have to be doing absolutely no leg work and town ruining this game for themselves b/c the only mafia read i've given is MR and it's obviously not convincing anybody

I'm probably missing something, because I think MR is lock town and I've recently developed a solid system for reading him.

I mean, I'm down to be convinced otherwise, but the one other game I played with them I was very back and forth on whether I was town or scum reading them and I'm wondering if MR always plays in this aloof, doesnt care to be useful type of way frequently. I wouldn't know how to tell the difference between his maf or town play

just haven't seen anything from MR that makes him analyzable except his vote day 1 and then slanking so. idk. if you have the system to help me read MR, feel free to explain

You can't read me on 'attitude' imo, e.g. yes I can come across as 'aloof' very often. In GoC, I was deliberately trying to make more of an effort but most games these days I kind of play just out of habit and actually have very low confidence in myself to solve anymore.

I'm not a very strong wolf against high level play, and will make 'obvious' mistakes like awkwardly shifting my reads, spitting out TMI, not knowing how to react in the moment (e.g. during a flash wagon situation), etc. Not, like, always, but often enough that by D2 I'm usually caught. You can decide if that describes me here ofc.

[Master Radishes]

But enough about me.

[Master Radishes]

The content amount of this game has been low (getting better now, obviously) and I struggled D1 to form any solid reads. D2 I've been distracted irl and probably will be until at least the end of this phase.

Various thoughts swirling in my head, unsubstantiated via re-reads/isos/etc:

*Falcon is doing classically scummy things (e.g. the ol 'at least one wolf on my wagon' thing), including things I expect from scum!him personally (e.g. the ol 'at least one wolf on my wagon' thing). But I've misread him enough times lately to the point where I doubt myself heavily on this read.

*NAA is doing NAA things. This seems normal for him, but then again I've never seen his scum game I think. His overconfident / unchanging reads are wrong as often or more as their right in my experience, so I'm mostly ignoring his takes, but at the least for now I'd keep him out of my immediate PoE.

*Fingersplints feels towny. I don't remember why I think this. Porscha also feels kind of towny? But that's based on instant reaction to her posts more than anything solid, and gamestate-wise she still fits as mafia quite easily.

*I feel like there's going to be a wolf in Ender / LC but I am too lazy/not in sync with the game enough to go back and delve into why I think this or which one or whether I'm wrong.

[Lime Coke]

shrugs

Reads look fine to me.

[MacDougall]

I'm gonna be pretty mad if we have NAA in gamethrowing mode tbh.

If my read is bad, it's game throwing, if your ambiguous read is bad, people need to get off your back .

I actually don't mind banter, but you need to pick a topic that doesn't come up literally every game.

I am not mafia. You speaking as though your reads are a foregone conclusion dissuaded me from attempting to persuade you that I'm not and simply play around you. If we lose because of that I will be annoyed.

[MacDougall]

I did like MR's EOD, though, which makes me feel like I'm re-evalling MR due to pressure of Mac + the not great response. :/

Yes MRs eod wasn't bad. Every segment before and since has been nonsense.

[MacDougall]

@MacDougall why are you voting obv!town MR?

MR is literally and unequivocally the scummiest player in this game on play and nowhere near obvious town status.

@Master Radishes chime in here plz.

Sure: you're wrong.

Or maybe you're right, I dunno, but you've never been particularly good at reading me iirc, so you're still wrong.

Bad answer. I was asking you to react to him giving you an awful obvious town status. Rather than being honest with him you attacked me. You're interested in what he is offering you here which is baseless defense and not interested in solving.

[MacDougall]

I believe town MR would be scumreading NAA right now.

[MacDougall]

I think this day requires a Falcon chop strictly for the benefit of those scumreading him either being proven right or having their hubris and game control removed.

[Master Radishes]

^misunderstood what you were asking.

I believe town MR would be scumreading NAA right now.

Why?

[MacDougall]

because he has no reason to be calling you obvious town and you'd be aware of that more than anyone... you aren't that easy to pocket

[Master Radishes]

like I would have to be doing absolutely no leg work and town ruining this game for themselves b/c the only mafia read i've given is MR and it's obviously not convincing anybody

I'm probably missing something, because I think MR is lock town and I've recently developed a solid system for reading him.

You called me Mafia last game we played, when I was in fact Town.

[Master Radishes]

I think his methods are not nearly as effective as he thinks they are, but I don't know he's done anything AI so far this game.


Also I am very easy to pocket tyvm.

[Master Radishes]

My one concern is that he is normally very obtuse when it comes to his reasonings and this game he has been open about his reasons for SRing falcon. So, yknow, maybe agenda there.

[Porscha]

is thread quiet cuz wolves are slanking and happy with the falcon wagon or what

[Porscha]

honestly i'm pretty convinced DADV happened day 1 votes so here is who had no votes. at least 1 maf has to be in no votes IF NOT BOTH HAD NO VOTES

Ender
Finger
LC
Mac
Porscha
NAA
Nanook (not applicable)

(and obviously not me hehe) so between NAA, Mac, LC, Finger, Ender. what's the thoughts? Mac started day by pushing Ender. Falcon getting a lot of attention all game, not sure if someone day 1 kept him from becoming wagon if he was actually wolf up with votes

NAA cracking the whip with his pushy and stand offish posts / pushes idk what to do with it

Mac might be just giving me brain worms and tricking me

LC is *big chilling* from what I can tell and this makes me quite suspicious of them despite my day 1 town read. LC also voted with NAA on Falcon so I don't see any of those 3 paired cuz I think there is 1 mafia between the 3

Just waiting on Finger to get into the game to be able to assess the vibes

also don't know what to think of Ender. think they were high poster day 1. dont know if this was talkative maf who is shmearing the confusion cream cheese on the toast or just a townie trying to cast a wide net to figure something out. idk

as voting stands right now, there are no votes on:

Ender
Finger
LC
Mac
NAA
myself

*LITERALLY THE SAME GROUP OF PEOPLE* and I think we should consider wagoning someone from this list to start putting pressure where it's missing imo

[Porscha]

i'll start. i'm voting mac

[Lime Coke]

is thread quiet cuz wolves are slanking and happy with the falcon wagon or what

I mean...that's been the entire game but you could be right.

[Porscha]

if falcon is really mafia, does mac move his vote to MR with falcon (perhaps explains why sudden vote change to MR from 90% scrum read ender from mac?) to try and get wagon to shift to MR? caveat, does mac do this to MR instead of seanzie due to MR's lack of thread presence prior to later in the day?

[Porscha]

does mac stay off seanzie b/c seanzie is slanking wolf?

[Lime Coke]

Honestly I feel like if Mac was wolf with Sean he would've voted him by now.

[Porscha]

Why would he bother when they've had a free pass

[Lime Coke]

Why would he bother when they've had a free pass

I don't know either, but I've heard from others wolfing with him that he just does that.

[Porscha]

i've seen mac bus a teammate who already wasn't gonna make it and then open wolf. that's it

[Lime Coke]

i've seen mac bus a teammate who already wasn't gonna make it and then open wolf. that's it

He does that, I've also seen him vote teammates when they have no pressure on them, I don't understand it.

[MacDougall]

it's because people backread games and when they do that they generally read games poorly and give it town points

[Porscha]

day 1 EOD votes:

Wilgy: MR and falcon
Falcon: LC and NAA
MR: wilgy and porscha
Seanzie: Ender and nanook (may they RIG (rest in garden))

Current day 2 votes:

Falcon: Seanzie, NAA, Ender, Finger
Mac: porscha
MR: Mac and falcon
Seanzie: LC

[Porscha]

it's because people backread games and when they do that they generally read games poorly and give it town points

did you do that this game too when you caught up on day 1

[Porscha]

I feel like for how much falcon has participated I find it weird their vote ended up on MR when he's done nothing particularly townie or maf. same for mac when mac came in singing praises on confirmed ender wolf and just dropped it

[Porscha]

@MacDougall @falcon45ca explain yourselves. so many words and you end up on one of the nullest players in the game

[Porscha]

I barely vote as mafia in general.

I have a weird feeling about something.

what is your strange feeling my child

follwing up on this one LC

[Porscha]

I'm going to now deliver my patent-pending list read. Each of these lists contains at least 1 mafia:

List 1:
Seanzie
LC
Mac
Enderwiggin

List 2:
Falcon
Mac

If you can figure out where this read comes from, props to you.

I like both list possibilities but if mac is in both then why not try to push mac

[Lime Coke]

I barely vote as mafia in general.

I have a weird feeling about something.

what is your strange feeling my child

follwing up on this one LC

It's a bad idea if I do so it's better if I kept quiet.

[fingersplints]

Am I crazy to see a world where it's Porscha & fingers?

Not crazy. But for today I'm not considering that based on Nanook reads.

Fwiw both confirmed town thought I was town

Fingers is obviously town lol

I agree with this.

[fingersplints]

Why would he bother when they've had a free pass

Why do you think anyone has a free pass?

[Lime Coke]

Am I crazy to see a world where it's Porscha & fingers?

Not crazy. But for today I'm not considering that based on Nanook reads.

Fwiw both confirmed town thought I was town

Fingers is obviously town lol

I agree with this.

Probably why I'm not voting you this game.

[fingersplints]

is thread quiet cuz wolves are slanking and happy with the falcon wagon or what

This post makes me suspicious. If falcon is mafia, could be teammate trying to get votes off of falcon. Especially with the not committed language. Phrasing it as a question without giving a stance

[Porscha]

Why would he bother when they've had a free pass

Why do you think anyone has a free pass?

because unless falcon is mafia then wolves aren't being pressed enough IMO. based on voting at most 1 wolf has been voted and another was not voted

[Porscha]

is thread quiet cuz wolves are slanking and happy with the falcon wagon or what

This post makes me suspicious. If falcon is mafia, could be teammate trying to get votes off of falcon. Especially with the not committed language. Phrasing it as a question without giving a stance

I had my vote on MR right away day 1 and held off day 2 to see discussion. i'm not happy with DADV falcon appearance from threadstate and *that* is what should be suspicious

[fingersplints]

I don’t get your stance at all. More than just falcon has been talked about. More than just falcon has been voted for in the past. The thread has been in this state the entire game. It’s a small game.

[Lime Coke]

For some reason I don't think FS understood Porscha's post but I don't think it makes much of a difference.

[Porscha]

I'm seeing too many inconsistencies between reads and votes and if mafia were correctly being pressed right I believe there would be more discussion with half the lobby not slanking off for 20/24 hours of the day

obviously it's possible falcon is mafia - I am after all pushing him (and mac) *right now* to explain his reasoning on MR vote

what about this is wolf to you. I am covering bases the best I can

[Lime Coke]

In terms of the "free pass" post.

The DADV who knows at this rate.

[Porscha]

I'd like to believe we just caught falcon red handed and sit here on our hands whistling the rest of the day but I dont think that's productive even if we still end up voting falcon

[fingersplints]

I'm seeing too many inconsistencies between reads and votes and if mafia were correctly being pressed right I believe there would be more discussion with half the lobby not slanking off for 20/24 hours of the day

obviously it's possible falcon is mafia - I am after all pushing him (and mac) *right now* to explain his reasoning on MR vote

what about this is wolf to you. I am covering bases the best I can

Scenario 1: falcon is wolf and you are his teammate. You could be trying to get people to reconsider their suspicion of him due to “DADV” even though I don’t think the thread is any more quiet than it’s been this entire game.

Scenario 2: falcon is town and you are wolf. “See I told you guys!”

There is of course scenarios where you are both town, or falcon is mafia and you are town, but these are the scenarios that concern me

[Porscha]

You could make that argument for literally any vote at any point. what makes me trying to stir the cold pot mafia behavior

[MacDougall]

@MacDougall @falcon45ca explain yourselves. so many words and you end up on one of the nullest players in the game

I do not believe MR to be null. Certainly not one of the "nullest" players in the game. Perhaps you think MR to be null in the sense that he's a difficult read. My view on MR is that yes he can be difficult to read, but also similar to myself, that if his reads are simply bad and his play largely does not vibe with me that it is because he is not town and also specifically a mafia that is very focused on the game at hand.

Porscha I appreciate your attempts to push the game forward and encourage you to do so but you are very much barking up the wrong tree going after me if you are town, which at this juncture given how little effort anyone but you is putting forth I have little choice but to take as a given. If you wish to put the mafia in a worse situation it would be a good idea to solve my slot to your contentment first and then work with me, as opposed to beginning at a random point of "let's vote" Mac, which is practically the absolute best possible thing for the mafia at this point in the game that you could do.

[fingersplints]

At this point I still think falcon is our best bet to get a wolf. But a falcon flip will tell us a lot either way.

[Lime Coke]

Is there a scenario where we flip Dunya and she's the actual mafa?

[Porscha]

i'm trying to push falcon too. i'm not just saying "okay everybody off falcon for funzies i'm bored"

I already have my own suspicions that I believe are founded and I'm trying to do something about them