Veggie Wars Mafia [TOWN WIN]

[MacDougall]

I struggle to understand how you can call MR one of the nullest slots in the game in a game that contains Seanzie, Fingersplints et al. If MR is null then everyone is null. MR has produced as much readable content as anyone in the game.

[Porscha]

@MacDougall @falcon45ca explain yourselves. so many words and you end up on one of the nullest players in the game

I do not believe MR to be null. Certainly not one of the "nullest" players in the game. Perhaps you think MR to be null in the sense that he's a difficult read. My view on MR is that yes he can be difficult to read, but also similar to myself, that if his reads are simply bad and his play largely does not vibe with me that it is because he is not town and also specifically a mafia that is very focused on the game at hand.

Porscha I appreciate your attempts to push the game forward and encourage you to do so but you are very much barking up the wrong tree going after me if you are town, which at this juncture given how little effort anyone but you is putting forth I have little choice but to take as a given. If you wish to put the mafia in a worse situation it would be a good idea to solve my slot to your contentment first and then work with me, as opposed to beginning at a random point of "let's vote" Mac, which is practically the absolute best possible thing for the mafia at this point in the game that you could do.

okay fine. why did you give up on ender vote

[MacDougall]

Is there a scenario where we flip Dunya and she's the actual mafa?

Oh yes how humorous the old "maybe everyone is town and the mafia is the wolf" gag. I am extremely tickled. Thank you Lime Coke.

[Porscha]

I struggle to understand how you can call MR one of the nullest slots in the game in a game that contains Seanzie, Fingersplints et al. If MR is null then everyone is null. MR has produced as much readable content as anyone in the game.

I thought you went on MR after he popped in to say pretty much nothing and then leave. maybe I misconstrued that interaction

[Lime Coke]

Is there a scenario where we flip Dunya and she's the actual mafa?

Oh yes how humorous the old "maybe everyone is town and the mafia is the wolf" gag. I am extremely tickled. Thank you Lime Coke.

Glad you understand the assignment.

[fingersplints]

I struggle to understand how you can call MR one of the nullest slots in the game in a game that contains Seanzie, Fingersplints et al. If MR is null then everyone is null. MR has produced as much readable content as anyone in the game.

I think I’ve produced a decent amount of content to be accurately read by most.

[MacDougall]

@MacDougall @falcon45ca explain yourselves. so many words and you end up on one of the nullest players in the game

I do not believe MR to be null. Certainly not one of the "nullest" players in the game. Perhaps you think MR to be null in the sense that he's a difficult read. My view on MR is that yes he can be difficult to read, but also similar to myself, that if his reads are simply bad and his play largely does not vibe with me that it is because he is not town and also specifically a mafia that is very focused on the game at hand.

Porscha I appreciate your attempts to push the game forward and encourage you to do so but you are very much barking up the wrong tree going after me if you are town, which at this juncture given how little effort anyone but you is putting forth I have little choice but to take as a given. If you wish to put the mafia in a worse situation it would be a good idea to solve my slot to your contentment first and then work with me, as opposed to beginning at a random point of "let's vote" Mac, which is practically the absolute best possible thing for the mafia at this point in the game that you could do.

okay fine. why did you give up on ender vote

I have done no such thing. I have moved my vote from Ender to another scumread. I currently believe these two to be the most likely mafia in the game independent of associatives that may or may not imply something different.

I think that on my scan of the day 1 what I saw was largely a bunch of disconnected lost and slanking town and two wolves confused about how to handle a game in which they appeared to be the only ones not named Lime Coke that were earnestly playing it.

[MacDougall]

I struggle to understand how you can call MR one of the nullest slots in the game in a game that contains Seanzie, Fingersplints et al. If MR is null then everyone is null. MR has produced as much readable content as anyone in the game.

I think I’ve produced a decent amount of content to be accurately read by most.

Sure and I think the evidence indicates that MR has produced more.

[Porscha]

okay mac who are your top 3 town reads

[MacDougall]

I struggle to understand how you can call MR one of the nullest slots in the game in a game that contains Seanzie, Fingersplints et al. If MR is null then everyone is null. MR has produced as much readable content as anyone in the game.

I thought you went on MR after he popped in to say pretty much nothing and then leave. maybe I misconstrued that interaction

Perhaps you somehow missed the part where I outlined by game solve at the start of this day in which I implied that I read day 1 and spent most of my backread tunneling MR until Ender usurped his position. I am not coming at MR from a place of "you are mafia for these two >rand posts". Those two potentially null looking posts were just enough for me to shift my quite fixed worldview back into the inverse direction. Particularly in light of Ender's improved day 2 contributions.

[fingersplints]

I struggle to understand how you can call MR one of the nullest slots in the game in a game that contains Seanzie, Fingersplints et al. If MR is null then everyone is null. MR has produced as much readable content as anyone in the game.

I think I’ve produced a decent amount of content to be accurately read by most.

Sure and I think the evidence indicates that MR has produced more.

Not to nitpick, but I don’t believe post count is an accurate representation of content. Some people post a lot of fluff posts. (I’m not calling out MR for this especially. This is just my general feeling on the topic. I don’t have a problem with anyones posting amount at this point. Again it’s a small game.)

[MacDougall]

okay mac who are your top 3 town reads

Eh I would say yourself and Fingersplints are the top 2. Lime Coke, NAA and Seanzie are all below that tier. Then Falcon. Then the other two.

[MacDougall]

I struggle to understand how you can call MR one of the nullest slots in the game in a game that contains Seanzie, Fingersplints et al. If MR is null then everyone is null. MR has produced as much readable content as anyone in the game.

I think I’ve produced a decent amount of content to be accurately read by most.

Sure and I think the evidence indicates that MR has produced more.

Not to nitpick, but I don’t believe post count is an accurate representation of content. Some people post a lot of fluff posts. (I’m not calling out MR for this especially. This is just my general feeling on the topic. I don’t have a problem with anyones posting amount at this point. Again it’s a small game.)

I think both you and MR have produced an adequate enough amount of content for neither of you to be able to be labelled the nullest slot in the game, which is a title that can only be owned by Seanzie in this game and maybe NAA because he's virtually unreadable by anyone who doesn't possess the Darkhold.

[Porscha]

I struggle to understand how you can call MR one of the nullest slots in the game in a game that contains Seanzie, Fingersplints et al. If MR is null then everyone is null. MR has produced as much readable content as anyone in the game.

I thought you went on MR after he popped in to say pretty much nothing and then leave. maybe I misconstrued that interaction

Perhaps you somehow missed the part where I outlined by game solve at the start of this day in which I implied that I read day 1 and spent most of my backread tunneling MR until Ender usurped his position. I am not coming at MR from a place of "you are mafia for these two >rand posts". Those two potentially null looking posts were just enough for me to shift my quite fixed worldview back into the inverse direction. Particularly in light of Ender's improved day 2 contributions.

you're right I forgot about that

[Porscha]

I don't really know what to do about MR with NAA insisting he has perfect the MR read and claims he's town and you strong reading MR as maf

[MacDougall]

Speaking on them specifically. Both were calling me out, one overtly and one subvertly.

Mac caught me so now I'm f-f-f-frozen

I too have read back and solved the game, but I'm gonna hold my opinions until game's end to make it fair.

To me this shows that had some sort of disconnected understanding of how I was viewing the gamestate that he really did not enjoy even despite the fact that at this juncture I had three other players as more likely mafia than him. I do not understand why or where this level of antagonism was warranted and given that I am considering MR as being in a low effort wolf mindset due to the general gamestate being rather apathetic and not requiring the wolves to produce a real major powerwolf effort, this confirms me further into that mindset.

Tl;dr the play just really is not good enough or pro town in any way and MR is fully capable of better than this, even when he's not trying.

Read MR's iso and show me where the townie and good reads are?

[fingersplints]

I don't really know what to do about MR with NAA insisting he has perfect the MR read and claims he's town and you strong reading MR as maf

I don’t believe anyone can perfectly read anyone. We are all make mistakes and we are all capable of fooling one another.

[Porscha]

I really didnt think there were any good townie posts which was I was on him to begin with but NAA had me doubting myself and MR followed up on it calling me out for misreading him in another game. I guess I could move my vote to MR to spice it up a little with 3 votes on him

[Porscha]

I don't really know what to do about MR with NAA insisting he has perfect the MR read and claims he's town and you strong reading MR as maf

I don’t believe anyone can perfectly read anyone. We are all make mistakes and we are all capable of fooling one another.

I mean ... yeah but I'm relatively new to everybody else here so I don't have as strong of a foundation and am less willing to make super confident reads. my opinions are generally swayable by a good player.

anyway that post is just where i'm standing about MR right now.

[MacDougall]

I don't really know what to do about MR with NAA insisting he has perfect the MR read and claims he's town and you strong reading MR as maf

Well that is the problem I have too. NAA is in a position where I think he is town and with the way he chooses to play as town, NAA having incorrect reads (which to me are confirmed at least as far as knowing he is wrong about me) can be very game losing. So prior to lylo it is important that NAA's solve is actually resolved. Which is why I want to flip Falcon to figure out if we are in the world where NAA's reads are all bad, or just bad on me.

I am mostly okay with this because I am not really townreading Falcon's d2 play very much and I have an okay Falcon read myself generally and have found myself hard shielding Falcon from bad pushes in many many games. So I wouldn't exactly be surprised if he flipped mafia.

If he does, then NAA should self resolve from there.

Though I do have some pause in considering who could potentially be Falcon's teammate. I imagine to those not named MacDougall I would be that person but given I am in fact town, I know that isn't the case and I am left kind of shrugging. Like there's no standout. There are a cpl names that can fit but not like hand in glove.

[MacDougall]

The Nanook kill pretty heavily points away from me and directly at someone in Ender/Seanzie/Falcon though so my preferred choice for the gallows today is still far and away Ender.

[fingersplints]

I don't really know what to do about MR with NAA insisting he has perfect the MR read and claims he's town and you strong reading MR as maf

I don’t believe anyone can perfectly read anyone. We are all make mistakes and we are all capable of fooling one another.

I mean ... yeah but I'm relatively new to everybody else here so I don't have as strong of a foundation and am less willing to make super confident reads. my opinions are generally swayable by a good player.

anyway that post is just where i'm standing about MR right now.

Sometimes being new makes you able to see what others have missed due to preformed biased

I actually don’t have a solid opinion on MR yet as a a lot of my opinions on people are contingent on my falcon read. But when I’m in the situation you are in I tend to just trust my own thoughts above all

[fingersplints]

I don't really know what to do about MR with NAA insisting he has perfect the MR read and claims he's town and you strong reading MR as maf

I don’t believe anyone can perfectly read anyone. We are all make mistakes and we are all capable of fooling one another.

I mean ... yeah but I'm relatively new to everybody else here so I don't have as strong of a foundation and am less willing to make super confident reads. my opinions are generally swayable by a good player.

anyway that post is just where i'm standing about MR right now.

Sometimes being new makes you able to see what others have missed due to preformed biased

I actually don’t have a solid opinion on MR yet as a a lot of my opinions on people are contingent on my falcon read. But when I’m in the situation you are in I tend to just trust my own thoughts above all

[fingersplints]

Anyways I’m trying to post and do kid stuff, so gonna focus on kids and be back later if anyone is still around

[MacDougall]

Contingent on your Falcon read? How so? What is your Falcon read?

[Porscha]

so do we prioritize falcon flip for info and NAA solve or do we try and push MR

[MacDougall]

@falcon45ca im obviously the only person here that has the potential to prevent your chop so you should probably talk to me about your reads etc. etc.

[Porscha]

well my vote on mac feels useless now since i'm back to town reading him so 'ill park on MR for now

[Master Radishes]

Speaking on them specifically. Both were calling me out, one overtly and one subvertly.

Mac caught me so now I'm f-f-f-frozen

I too have read back and solved the game, but I'm gonna hold my opinions until game's end to make it fair.

To me this shows that had some sort of disconnected understanding of how I was viewing the gamestate that he really did not enjoy even despite the fact that at this juncture I had three other players as more likely mafia than him. I do not understand why or where this level of antagonism was warranted and given that I am considering MR as being in a low effort wolf mindset due to the general gamestate being rather apathetic and not requiring the wolves to produce a real major powerwolf effort, this confirms me further into that mindset.

Tl;dr the play just really is not good enough or pro town in any way and MR is fully capable of better than this, even when he's not trying.

Read MR's iso and show me where the townie and good reads are?

I think you're misinterpreting my intentions with those posts. I was just being silly. In writing them I was not trying to give any opinion on you, your alignment, or your opinion of mu alignment.

[Master Radishes]

well my vote on mac feels useless now since i'm back to town reading him so 'ill park on MR for now

Btw have you ever explained your read on me? Just for being 'aloof' or was there more to it?

[fingersplints]

Contingent on your Falcon read? How so? What is your Falcon read?

I think falcon is mafia. If he flips mafia, which I think he will, it will clear several people for me. If he flips town, I need to revisit those people, but at the moment it’s hard to view them without the falcon skew

[MacDougall]

I read Falcon's ISO and I don't find it nearly wolfy enough to justify the volume of scumreads he's received. I find his ISO towny for him. I doubt he flips mafia here and won't support it.

[EnderWiggin]

Porscha and NAA are probably the most standout town right now for me on catchup.

Porscha for obvious reasons and NAA because this is now firmly in their town meta.

[EnderWiggin]

And by "Now firmly" I mean I re-read from daystart and realised I was just right about NAA but anyway.

[EnderWiggin]

I read Falcon's ISO and I don't find it nearly wolfy enough to justify the volume of scumreads he's received. I find his ISO towny for him. I doubt he flips mafia here and won't support it.

I think it's absolutely wolfy enough but this gamestate doesn't feel like wolf top wagon.

[EnderWiggin]

Fingers also gets the vibe townread. I mentioned that earlier.

[EnderWiggin]

If Falcon is town, then Seanzie is the only one on this wagon that could be wolf probably?

In which case it'd have to be something like Seanzie/MR or Seanzie/LC.

But if it isn't then it means we have pure wagon on town which immediately says MR is also town.

[EnderWiggin]

I actually am thinking more and more this is despondant wolf!LC. He falls off on D2/D3 when he isn't really putting in an effort. He can also do so after some bad games (I remember him falling off as town in Smilies for instance), but the weird vote swapping plus disengagement = IF Falcon/MR are town then LC has to be wolf

[EnderWiggin]

I am gonna re-dive my meta stuff but I'm feeling a little more confident now about [VOTE: Lime Coke] aubergine and this gamestate is stagnant so shake-a-the-things-up

[NotAnAxehole]

@MacDougall I don't even particularly scum read you, I'm just willing to yeet you if EnderWiggin is town, because I know from research that MR has town told. I've never used one of my secret reads unless I was 95+% confidence that they're correct... So trust me when I say that one of you or Falcon is always mafia, it makes me quite nervous because it puts a lot of pressure on my list read being precise. I would be very upset if that read turned out to be wrong, I just don't think it will turn out to be wrong.

@Master Radishes my reads on you prior to discovering your tell are irrelevant.

[NotAnAxehole]

FYI, Falcon is just a surface level read, not a read that I've put any time into.

[NotAnAxehole]

Listen, if I had more time on my hands, I would meta dive everyone to find something that you don't consider to be part of the game, and figure out what it means for your alignment... But I don't have the willpower or time to do everyone, so I just do the easiest targets. Scotty, Wilgy, MR, etc... Sure I'll run a base level analysis on other people, but if there isn't an immediate trend, I tend to drop it pretty quickly.

[NotAnAxehole]

@MacDougall I don't even particularly scum read you, I'm just willing to yeet you if EnderWiggin is town, because I know from research that MR has town told. I've never used one of my secret reads unless I was 95+% confidence that they're correct... So trust me when I say that one of you or Falcon is always mafia, it makes me quite nervous because it puts a lot of pressure on my list read being precise. I would be very upset if that read turned out to be wrong, I just don't think it will turn out to be wrong.

@Master Radishes my reads on you prior to discovering your tell are irrelevant.

I'm also willing to yeet you if Falcon is town, so RIP... I guess maybe that is a scum read, but it's more of an associative read because your alignment in this situation (with 1 miss left) relates to both Falcon and Enderwiggin from my PoV.

And it would be entirely fair for you to have the same, yet opposite perspective if you believed in my reads, which of course you don't.

[MacDougall]

I read Falcon's ISO and I don't find it nearly wolfy enough to justify the volume of scumreads he's received. I find his ISO towny for him. I doubt he flips mafia here and won't support it.

I think it's absolutely wolfy enough but this gamestate doesn't feel like wolf top wagon.

Okay how often have you been right about Falcon wolf? How often have you scumread town Falcon? @falcon45ca you also comment here.

Also can you actually articulate how Falcon is actually being wolfy that isn't just Falcon's default way of being? Because my biggest problem with this read outside of the fact that too many people have it too easily, is that Falcon just looks like same old Falcon.

[Seanzie]

I believe town MR would be scumreading NAA right now.

I don't like this post.

[NotAnAxehole]

I believe town MR would be scumreading NAA right now.

I don't like this post.

I don't think I'm allowed to have reads, so I'll refrain from comment.

[EnderWiggin]

I read Falcon's ISO and I don't find it nearly wolfy enough to justify the volume of scumreads he's received. I find his ISO towny for him. I doubt he flips mafia here and won't support it.

I think it's absolutely wolfy enough but this gamestate doesn't feel like wolf top wagon.

Okay how often have you been right about Falcon wolf? How often have you scumread town Falcon? @falcon45ca you also comment here.

Also can you actually articulate how Falcon is actually being wolfy that isn't just Falcon's default way of being? Because my biggest problem with this read outside of the fact that too many people have it too easily, is that Falcon just looks like same old Falcon.

I have often townread falcon when others have wolfread him.

That being said there has been a few cases I've been wrong on town!falcon.

But also, town falcon tends to be more fluid with earlygame accusations and pushes and he will probe instead of sitting on one person. I am also not the only person to point this out, when I first mentioned it earlier in this thread someone agreed with my thoughts on it. I forget who and it's past midnight and I'm too tired to check so myeh.

I don't believe I'm a particularly bad reader of Falcon. I like to think I've done pretty well reading him in the past.

[MacDougall]

@MacDougall I don't even particularly scum read you, I'm just willing to yeet you if EnderWiggin is town, because I know from research that MR has town told. I've never used one of my secret reads unless I was 95+% confidence that they're correct... So trust me when I say that one of you or Falcon is always mafia, it makes me quite nervous because it puts a lot of pressure on my list read being precise. I would be very upset if that read turned out to be wrong, I just don't think it will turn out to be wrong.

@Master Radishes my reads on you prior to discovering your tell are irrelevant.

I'm also willing to yeet you if Falcon is town, so RIP... I guess maybe that is a scum read, but it's more of an associative read because your alignment in this situation (with 1 miss left) relates to both Falcon and Enderwiggin from my PoV.

And it would be entirely fair for you to have the same, yet opposite perspective if you believed in my reads, which of course you don't.

Well yes I don't alwaya kill people for being wrong because I trust my ability to see the logic in their content and read more into it than outcomes.

[MacDougall]

I believe town MR would be scumreading NAA right now.

I don't like this post.

Why not?

[MacDougall]

I believe town MR would be scumreading NAA right now.

I don't like this post.

I don't think I'm allowed to have reads, so I'll refrain from comment.

There's no need to antagonise further. You already made your point earlier.