Dr. Who Mafia - Night 12

[Dom]

On the contrary, Dom, I thought that this lynch in particular was an invigorating and interesting one, very much what I consider to be good Mafia. I wanted to congratulate everyone on keeping this game very interesting, even if Dom ends up being the White Jacob secret role and it's a big mistake.

One thing, though... Dom's lynch survival is suspicious because there's nothing in the (unclaimed) Civvie roles that explain it. There is also nothing I can see in the Civvie roles that would explain Zeek's 100% knowledge that Dom is The Master. So... that's sort of suspicious for the same reason?

I completely disagree with you. We can talk endgame about how I think people have played quite.... unsportsmanlike games.

LC, what if zeek knew who Dom was because he's "the recruiter"?

He tried and failed to recruit Dom. I find that to be an idea worth thinking about.

Let me know if I'm mistaken, but did we clear Zeek of being a Dalek (all dead) or a Cyberman (they killed him)? So, The Recruiter would be a fine possibility for him. Can you imagine if we rezzed The Recruiter?! Wow. Who was responsible for that rez?

Also, LC, do you like the idea of the "Jacob" vs "MIB" theory with 2 of the secret roles?

Nope... I don't think that's how it is. I see it as The Recruiter and The Neutral LMS With Some Power We Don't Know. Or Evil instead of Neutral, but they ain't killing, so .

MP and Hedgeowl were responsible for his rez, I believe.

I can't help but note how both Dom and Zeek have expressed how much we would regret lynching them, after LC warned everyone not to let a Strax lynch happen..

At least Dom isn't Strax, right? So that's good. And how would Strax *know* that Dom is The Master. Strax never tried to kill Dom.

Dom and Zeek, are either of you planning on claiming a Prize as the reason for you being a Civvie with powers no Civvie has?

I have said it before and I'll say it again-- I cannot way why I survived.
Though, that'll be my only survival.

Zeek-- I refuse to respond to you simply because I think I would be the single most hypocritical mod in the world if I did so.

[Tangrowth]

Wow, what a day! I'm so sorry folks I wasn't around. This evening got unexpectedly busy and I had a meeting after my night class which ran late.

So... I'm confused. I just have a hell of a hard time believing I have been reading someone as sure-fire civvie all game who could be the recruiter. I don't think zeek is the recruiter, at all. However, I guess it is possible he's been recruited since coming back from the grave.

And Dom has played a hell of a game if he's The Master here because I wouldn't have guessed that. Occam's razor would suggest that's why he survived though.

I guess tonight will be illuminating.

I find it amusing that I am a "wild card." Immensely amusing But I'm really not that wild if you think about it. Not in the thread, at least

You're not wild in real life either. Boring ass English teacher who'd rather read Chaucer than shoot heroin off a stripper's knee.

Bitch, you don't know me.

I laughed so hard at this and the surrounding posts, BTW.

[Hedgeowl]

Good night sweet Bea!



Oh and also don't forget to check your pants before you stand up.

[DFaraday]

I am so saddened that THIS is how we play Mafia now.


People playing horribly is causing people to come to faulty conclusions. Love it.

I do think this game really got out of hand in a few different ways, and I'm as much to blame as anyone. I'm actually going to feel kind of bad if it turns out you are the Master at this point because of the lack of deductive reasoning any of us (except Zeek) used to get there.

EBWOP: Wow, LC, you're saying pretty much the exact opposite of what I said.

What?

And fair play to you, I suppose. My main point was that in general, the push for Dom didn't seem to be founded much on actual casework.

[Long Con]

I am so saddened that THIS is how we play Mafia now.


People playing horribly is causing people to come to faulty conclusions. Love it.

I do think this game really got out of hand in a few different ways, and I'm as much to blame as anyone. I'm actually going to feel kind of bad if it turns out you are the Master at this point because of the lack of deductive reasoning any of us (except Zeek) used to get there.

EBWOP: Wow, LC, you're saying pretty much the exact opposite of what I said.

What?

And fair play to you, I suppose. My main point was that in general, the push for Dom didn't seem to be founded much on actual casework.

Like I said, my own comfort with a Dom lynch was based on gut. Nothing wrong with gut. Even though I didn't vote for him, I had thought of him as my main Master suspect for days.

[DFaraday]

I am so saddened that THIS is how we play Mafia now.


People playing horribly is causing people to come to faulty conclusions. Love it.

I do think this game really got out of hand in a few different ways, and I'm as much to blame as anyone. I'm actually going to feel kind of bad if it turns out you are the Master at this point because of the lack of deductive reasoning any of us (except Zeek) used to get there.

EBWOP: Wow, LC, you're saying pretty much the exact opposite of what I said.

What?

And fair play to you, I suppose. My main point was that in general, the push for Dom didn't seem to be founded much on actual casework.

Like I said, my own comfort with a Dom lynch was based on gut. Nothing wrong with gut. Even though I didn't vote for him, I had thought of him as my main Master suspect for days.

I get that, but I can see why Dom would be frustrated. There's no way to defend against vibes, or worse, infodumping, which is why I feel bad if my hints caused Dom to get not-lynched here.

[Dom]

I'M NOT EVEN THE MASTER

[DFaraday]

I'M NOT EVEN THE MASTER

Maybe not, but since people already thought you were AND you survived a lynch, it's going to be very hard to convince people otherwise.

[Long Con]

I'M NOT EVEN THE MASTER

Maybe not, but since people already thought you were AND you survived a lynch, it's going to be very hard to convince people otherwise.

An unenviable situation indeed.

[Turnip Head]

I'm not The Master either. Rezz plz?

[Dom]

Le sigh.

[Long Con]

I'd like to speculate that Clara Oswald is dead, because damn, it would have been nice to end this night early.

[zeek]

Might you come to these conclusions if you were in my shoes?

If not, can you tell me what would make you disbeleive it?

I don't know, I don't have your experience in either of your roles. It's certainly an easy conclusion to make.

Zeek-- I refuse to respond to you simply because I think I would be the single most hypocritical mod in the world if I did so.

That's fine. You're bound to be annoyed, just make sure you spread the annoyance around fairly. There's been a lot of roleclaiming and infordumping.

[Chris]

A lot of:

Role claiming? Yes

Info dumping? No

Role claiming =\= info dumping


Like I said yesterday in my simile ( Epig), it's like you're a first time role checker, and you just checked your first baddie. It came back bad, and you run into the thread jumping up and down "DOM IS BAD! DOM IS BAD! DOM IS BAD!" If you have to tell people repeatedly to vote for someone, that means your case isn't good enough to get them to vote that way on it's own. Then people start to think, like I did, that you just wouldn't be so emphatic without being sure. But being that sure can only be achieved through "info"... and then you "dumped" it.

That's info dumping. And I can see why Dom is upset.

But what's done is done. I'm certain now that you must be the recruiter. So, enjoy your time while we go after Dom. I'm pretty sure you're next.

[zeek]

You've repeatedly asked people to change their votes, like LC last night. As for info-dumping, MP hasn't infordumped? There are others, and you will see that post-game

I'm not the recruiter but I guess my days are numbered regardless. It's a game, I accept that. When I do flip unrecruited civ, get the real villains.

[Chris]

You've repeatedly asked people to change their votes, like LC last night.

Repeatedly?

We need MP's vote to make it a real tie. (And a behind the scenes tie too!)

That's it. I'm not too bright sometimes, but doesn't repeatedly require at least more than once?

Also, that was less of me asking MP to vote for DF over you, and more of me asking MP to make it a tie to again try to show that Snow is the Cyber head.

[zeek]

Repeatedly, throughout the game.

LC last night.

[zeek]

Actually I think it was keys last night now I think about it. You've asked him at other lynches however.

[zeek]

I also feel like Strax would be smart to play the same way.

Which is why I thought Elo was Strax...

And, sorry to leave you solo on the Snow vote. He's bad for sure. But I can't deny that I felt strongly enough to vote DF, and since I don't believe his role hint, I have no reason to not vote him again.

Don't suppose you'll follow me there, will you?

No, it was you

[Chris]

LOL! Read it again. I had JUST switched my vote from Snow to DF. As I did that, i noticed that LC had just voted for Snow Dog, "following" my vote.

Get it?

[zeek]

Okay, and your pleas to LC1.0 and MP a few days ago about moving their votes then?

None of this matters anyway, there's so much doubt around me, like you said, I'll be next.

I will apologise to Dom after the game.

[Chris]

The new paradigm in the mafia world: The "Yeah, but you..."

[zeek]

All I'm saying is that its a bit hypocritical for you to say if, I have to ask for votes, my case is weak. You've asked for votes.

Anyway, this has been an intense game and I let myself get sucked in too much last night. I admit that and I'm sorry for that. No doubt once its over there'll be discussion on role hints and infodumping, and there should be, but thats an issue for another day.

[Chris]

It's not hypocritical. It's you trying to deflect attention from what you did by saying I did it too. (Not that I remember doing what you did.)

[Dom]

can't wait for tomorrow's lynch

[Long Con]

It would be a cool thing for The Master to make a NK attempt on Dom tonight.

[Chris]

So, the poll is not changeable, and there's no end time.

Anyone know what time night ends? Should I assume 9:30 again?

[keys56000000000]

Dom: Any idea why Zeek thinks you're The Master?

[keys56000000000]

Dom: Any idea why Zeek thinks you're The Master?

EBWOP: "knows"

[Dom]

Dom: Any idea why Zeek thinks you're The Master?

Not a clue.
I don't know who many people are, I just know who has claimed good and bad and it seems widely accepted. Obviously a few who have outed themselves (:rolleyes:) I know, but for the most part, I'm in the dark.

Just so everyone knows, lynching me again WOULD result in my death.

[Tangrowth]

Dom: Any idea why Zeek thinks you're The Master?

Why would you even ask this? I thought zeek's thoughts were clearly stated, even if there wasn't a whole lot of substance to them.

I still lean towards the recruiter being dead and zeek just feeling incredibly strongly about Dom, but the fact that he emphasized KNOW is throwing me off just a bit.

[Tangrowth]

Also, it's evident Dom survived the lynch. While there could be other explanations, it's very possible Dom is The Master. Guess we need to see what happens tonight though for further evidence denying or confirming the matter.

[keys56000000000]

Dom: Any idea why Zeek thinks you're The Master?

Why would you even ask this? I thought zeek's thoughts were clearly stated, even if there wasn't a whole lot of substance to them.

I still lean towards the recruiter being dead and zeek just feeling incredibly strongly about Dom, but the fact that he emphasized KNOW is throwing me off just a bit.

Why would I even ask that? C'mon, Doc, like you said, Zeek says he knows. There has to be a reason why. I just thought maybe Dom might have a clue.

The recruiter was not splints. I personally doubt the recruiter is dead, but it's a possibility.

[zeek]

The recruiter was not splints.

You know that for sure?

[keys56000000000]

The recruiter was not splints.

You know that for sure?

No, I just seriously doubt it.

[Chris]

We haven't lynched a recruited player since lynching two in a row. Where they the only two? Or did we just get lucky? There have been 3 lynches since Roxy, and none of them were recruited.

Splints being the recruiter seems like it can be possible, especially with Roxy being recruited. Her dying on night 3 makes me think it's less likely that she was the recruiter... I suppose she could have recruited MM on the same night she died. But I don't think so... I just felt she was civ.

I'm of the mind that zeek the recruiter was all alone, with both of his recruits dying while he was dead. Then he was rezzed, he tried to recruit Dom, and couldn't. zeek knows who The Doctor is, so unrecruitable Dom just had to be The Master. zeek tried to do some case work, and got as far as the Day 6 vote. He noticed that Dom didn't vote for MM, and ran with it. (Remember, we don't even know if MM made contact with The Master) There was other evidence that could have been used, but zeek just talked about the vote, and begged for people to vote Dom.

zeek is absolutely the recruiter as far as I'm concerned.

[zeek]

Nice story, I love a good bit of fiction.

[Dom]

Nice story, I love a good bit of fiction.

That's how I feel about you.

[zeek]

[Epignosis]

Friction is largely fiction.

[Tangrowth]

Dom: Any idea why Zeek thinks you're The Master?

Why would you even ask this? I thought zeek's thoughts were clearly stated, even if there wasn't a whole lot of substance to them.

I still lean towards the recruiter being dead and zeek just feeling incredibly strongly about Dom, but the fact that he emphasized KNOW is throwing me off just a bit.

Why would I even ask that? C'mon, Doc, like you said, Zeek says he knows. There has to be a reason why. I just thought maybe Dom might have a clue.

The recruiter was not splints. I personally doubt the recruiter is dead, but it's a possibility.

I was just confused since you used the word "thinks" in your original question, I understand now. I agree, to some degree.

I still don't think zeek is the recruiter. It would make sense, actually, based on Chris's most recent theory. However, I have one piece of major refuting evidence against it, that only I would know, and it's why I pegged zeek as a civvie after N1, and specifically N1. So in my mind, he could be recruited, but not recruiter.

[Chris]

MP, your hypothesis involves the recruiter still being alive, with zeek recruited. Do you believe that they would have BTSC? (i do) If so, do you think anyone would have allowed zeek to go after Dom with such assurance and little thread evidence?



zeek, prior to your case on Dom, what was the last case you built? (in this game)

[Tangrowth]

What hypothesis?

I don't think zeek is recruited, personally, he seems like his civvie self to me and I do still think splints was the recruiter. But I'm trying to emphasize that I think there's practically 0% chance he's recruited, but there's ?% chance he's recruited.

[Tangrowth]

Oops, I meant:

0% chance he's recruiter, but there's ?% chance he's recruited.

[S~V~S]

"Allowed"? Last I looked BTS partners are not your keepers.

I thought week was civ after that option poll with Alzarius and Azure. He pushed hard for the civvies option. But as MP says a subsequent recruitment is possible, but I don't think he's an original baddie either.

[S~V~S]

Zeek not week Lol.

[Chris]

Ok MP, how do you propose zeek came to this conclusion about Dom? Just from analyzing the day 6 votes?


Also, I just noticed, if you search zeek's on topic posts, he's got 666 of them...

Need I say more?


Not allowed in a total sense. But if you were the recruiter SVS, and zeek told you that since you couldn't recruit Dom, so he must be The Master, that he wants to go get Dom lynched, you'd make sure he went out there a little bit better prepared. At least I think you would... That's why I think he's the lone recruiter. No one to give him advice.

But whatever... We'll address that when it's time.

[Chris]

This is right about the time that keys comes in and tells me that I'm a retarded, crack smoking, buffoon....

[zeek]

Chris, look around you, very few have been building actual cases. I'd like to know if you think your "case" against me is very strong?

I'll answer for you: It's not. It's assumptions and they're wrong.

[Chris]

"Allowed"? Last I looked BTS partners are not your keepers.

I thought week was civ after that option poll with Alzarius and Azure. He pushed hard for the civvies option. But as MP says a subsequent recruitment is possible, but I don't think he's an original baddie either.

What was the result of that poll anyway? I was too lost in the beginning to realize what was going on.

And, even if it was the most civ option in the know multiverse, why couldn't zeek push it as hard as he did to get exactly what you're giving him?

Jus' sayin'...



Linki @ zeek: Wow! That's rich.