Anniversary Game 1 - Classic Syndicate [Day 9]

[Golden]

I don't care where your vote ended up, or what you intended to do at EoD. You tried to start a wagon on DF. Why are the risks starting a wagon on DF different than if you started a wagon on Quin?

"I don't care that these two things are different. Why won't you answer my question as though they were the same."

[Golden]

If you can't see the difference between me not worrying about taking heat from making literally zero effort from trying to get DF lynched and explaining exactly why I thought a counterwagon was a good idea while also flagging that I wasn't doing it because DF was my prime suspect (the primary factor was that Vivax was already voting there and two votes might actually entice a slip to save bea)

Versus casing you and making an empassioned case for your lynch...

I don't know what to tell you.

[Golden]

Day 4 Vote Poll

Spoiler: show

Who burninated Scotty?

Poll ended at Thu Nov 03, 2022 8:00 pm

bea
8
40%


Voters: Golden, Elohcin, Michelle, sig, A Person, S~V~S, Kate, Vivax

DFaraday
0
No votes


Voters: None

DrWilgy
0
No votes


Voters: None

Elohcin
1
5%


Voters: Quin

Golden
1
5%


Voters: DFaraday

Kate
0
No votes


Voters: None

Michelle
0
No votes


Voters: None

Quin
1
5%


Voters: DrWilgy

S~V~S
0
No votes


Voters: None

sig
0
No votes


Voters: None

Sloonei
0
No votes


Voters: None

Vivax
1
5%


Voters: Sloonei

Trogdor! (The Host, the Non, the Dead)
8
40%


Voters: thellama73, nutella, JaggedJimmyJay, Epignosis, juliets, Matahari, Scotty, Spacedaisy


Total votes: 20

Let's start here.

@Quin why didn't you vote bea?
Also @DFaraday why didn't you vote bea?

[Golden]

Second @Quin why did you vote Eloh? You apparently suspected her day one (although all that Scotty/Elo stuff felt manufactured even then to me), but you said you didn't want to vote her but watch her, then voted her anyway, then basically never mentioned her again until your vote on day 4.

[Quin]

I don't care where your vote ended up, or what you intended to do at EoD. You tried to start a wagon on DF. Why are the risks starting a wagon on DF different than if you started a wagon on Quin?

"I don't care that these two things are different. Why won't you answer my question as though they were the same."

Why are they different? I am literally asking you to explain why they are different.

[Golden]

Even though bea flipped town, I feel like being 'off bea' isn't a good look. Bea really looked scummy... the vote on G-Man day was bad and she went into antispew.

Personally I'll be shocked if there are no mafia in the non-bea voters and Quin and DF are my top two options (for reasons of already trusting Sloon and Wilgy, although I would like to hear their reasoning for the same, as well). I think it's likely that there are mafia who seek the shelter of not being on a civ flip.

I'm looking through Quin's day 4 stuff now and even at the time it skeeved my out but I can articulate it better now.

When I voted for DF, what I was talking about was the value of a counterwagon to learning information.
When Quin voted for Eloh, he was talking about trying to find scum on the bea wagon and looking for people phoning it in with their bea vote.

Mafia don't want to 'phone it in' if they bus a teammate. They want to look good. They want the bus to give them civ cred.

I just don't see the civvie logic at all in Quin, all game really. Everything he says and does comes across as manufactured to me, I try to put myself in his mind and I can't see the civ logic to get where he gets to.

[Quin]

If you can't see the difference between me not worrying about taking heat from making literally zero effort from trying to get DF lynched and explaining exactly why I thought a counterwagon was a good idea while also flagging that I wasn't doing it because DF was my prime suspect (the primary factor was that Vivax was already voting there and two votes might actually entice a slip to save bea)

Versus casing you and making an empassioned case for your lynch...

I don't know what to tell you.

Thank you for clarifying.

There is no difference.

[Golden]

I don't care where your vote ended up, or what you intended to do at EoD. You tried to start a wagon on DF. Why are the risks starting a wagon on DF different than if you started a wagon on Quin?

"I don't care that these two things are different. Why won't you answer my question as though they were the same."

Why are they different? I am literally asking you to explain why they are different.

Starting a wagon and casing someone are two different things.

Let's say I was a mason...

I would happily start (with their consent) a wagon on my fellow mason if I was convinced the other lynch option was mafia... just to watch the behaviour of those who jumped on.

Like, I would have been absolutely happy with myself as a counterwagon to bea yesterday. I think if I looked like a genuine counterwagon, you would have found mafia trying to lynch me.

But this is harder to explain given bea flipped civ. But in my head, this was a good tactic because bea was clearly mafia and also I felt that there was no real risk bea wouldn't be lynched, it would just be good to give hope to the mafia that she wouldn't be.

I don't think DF is cleared and he is still in my PoE, but I didn't vote for him to get him lynched. My vote was never going to end there.

~~~~

I wanted to *come after* you. Properly. I was kinda bored with the straightforward day, was part of it. But I just thought 'shut up and wait for day 5' because I didn't need the noise.

[Golden]

If you can't see the difference between me not worrying about taking heat from making literally zero effort from trying to get DF lynched and explaining exactly why I thought a counterwagon was a good idea while also flagging that I wasn't doing it because DF was my prime suspect (the primary factor was that Vivax was already voting there and two votes might actually entice a slip to save bea)

Versus casing you and making an empassioned case for your lynch...

I don't know what to tell you.

Thank you for clarifying.

There is no difference.

This is bullsuit.

[Quin]

Second @Quin why did you vote Eloh? You apparently suspected her day one (although all that Scotty/Elo stuff felt manufactured even then to me), but you said you didn't want to vote her but watch her, then voted her anyway, then basically never mentioned her again until your vote on day 4.

Eloh looked like an unengaged scum on Day 1. I would have liked to let her live if I wasn't also in danger that day. That changed, and she looked good in the her LoRab content so I changed my read.

Then her bea vote stank in comparison, where she just dumped it without intent to engage.

[Quin]

If you can't see the difference between me not worrying about taking heat from making literally zero effort from trying to get DF lynched and explaining exactly why I thought a counterwagon was a good idea while also flagging that I wasn't doing it because DF was my prime suspect (the primary factor was that Vivax was already voting there and two votes might actually entice a slip to save bea)

Versus casing you and making an empassioned case for your lynch...

I don't know what to tell you.

Thank you for clarifying.

There is no difference.

This is bullsuit.

No, you.

[VOTE: Golden] aubergine

[Golden]

I don't care where your vote ended up, or what you intended to do at EoD. You tried to start a wagon on DF. Why are the risks starting a wagon on DF different than if you started a wagon on Quin?

"I don't care that these two things are different. Why won't you answer my question as though they were the same."

Why are they different? I am literally asking you to explain why they are different.

"I literally want you to explain properly"

If you can't see the difference between me not worrying about taking heat from making literally zero effort from trying to get DF lynched and explaining exactly why I thought a counterwagon was a good idea while also flagging that I wasn't doing it because DF was my prime suspect (the primary factor was that Vivax was already voting there and two votes might actually entice a slip to save bea)

Versus casing you and making an empassioned case for your lynch...

I don't know what to tell you.

Thank you for clarifying.

There is no difference.

"Jokes, no I don't, I just want to rest my case"

[Golden]

If you can't see the difference between me not worrying about taking heat from making literally zero effort from trying to get DF lynched and explaining exactly why I thought a counterwagon was a good idea while also flagging that I wasn't doing it because DF was my prime suspect (the primary factor was that Vivax was already voting there and two votes might actually entice a slip to save bea)

Versus casing you and making an empassioned case for your lynch...

I don't know what to tell you.

Thank you for clarifying.

There is no difference.

This is bullsuit.

No, you.

[VOTE: Golden] aubergine

Have you - even for one instant - ever indicated suspicion that I'm mafia in this game.

This really is a *literal* no u.

[Quin]

If you can't see the difference between me not worrying about taking heat from making literally zero effort from trying to get DF lynched and explaining exactly why I thought a counterwagon was a good idea while also flagging that I wasn't doing it because DF was my prime suspect (the primary factor was that Vivax was already voting there and two votes might actually entice a slip to save bea)

Versus casing you and making an empassioned case for your lynch...

I don't know what to tell you.

Thank you for clarifying.

There is no difference.

This is bullsuit.

No, you.

[VOTE: Golden] aubergine

Have you - even for one instant - ever indicated suspicion that I'm mafia in this game.

This really is a *literal* no u.

Nope. Your vote is just that rotten.

[Golden]

If you can't see the difference between me not worrying about taking heat from making literally zero effort from trying to get DF lynched and explaining exactly why I thought a counterwagon was a good idea while also flagging that I wasn't doing it because DF was my prime suspect (the primary factor was that Vivax was already voting there and two votes might actually entice a slip to save bea)

Versus casing you and making an empassioned case for your lynch...

I don't know what to tell you.

Thank you for clarifying.

There is no difference.

This is bullsuit.

No, you.

[VOTE: Golden] aubergine

Have you - even for one instant - ever indicated suspicion that I'm mafia in this game.

This really is a *literal* no u.

Nope. Your vote is just that rotten.

lol

[Golden]

Also funny that you just 'breezed right past' SVS's comment and chose to focus on me.

[Quin]

I don't care where your vote ended up, or what you intended to do at EoD. You tried to start a wagon on DF. Why are the risks starting a wagon on DF different than if you started a wagon on Quin?

"I don't care that these two things are different. Why won't you answer my question as though they were the same."

Why are they different? I am literally asking you to explain why they are different.

"I literally want you to explain properly"

If you can't see the difference between me not worrying about taking heat from making literally zero effort from trying to get DF lynched and explaining exactly why I thought a counterwagon was a good idea while also flagging that I wasn't doing it because DF was my prime suspect (the primary factor was that Vivax was already voting there and two votes might actually entice a slip to save bea)

Versus casing you and making an empassioned case for your lynch...

I don't know what to tell you.

Thank you for clarifying.

There is no difference.

"Jokes, no I don't, I just want to rest my case"

The only difference is that you would hypothetically have only put effort into one of the wagons.

Your proposed DF wagon was pure tokenism. You didn't actually care about alternate wagons at all.

Your hypothetical Quin wagon didn't happen because you didn't want to risk getting heat. You definitely didn't actually care about alternate wagons at all.

linki: because DH is town.

[Golden]

@Sloonei i have confidence loss after Bea flipped civ. So I am stating a fact, I don’t understand it but I’m open to perspectives.

What are you thinking of Quin, Michelle and Golden? They are all POE for me and they shouldn’t be at this point.

Let’s pretend I have no thoughts until I have read their ISOs.

We’ll keep me posted. IMO Golden hasn’t had his own case on anyone, Quin seems to be made of alternating witty and snarky one liners, and Michelle hasn’t had a really solid opinion on anyone. I wanted to put that out there, since I’m doing some reassessing.

I think perhaps reading the first two days for this where I was present and contributing a lot would be helpful.

I wasn’t around much on D3… although I feel like my case on G-Man was my own and I wasn’t sheeping, in fact since I wasn’t around I don’t actually know what other peoples cases were.

Fully agree I didn’t make my own case on bea, but it didn’t seem necessary.

I would have made a case on Quin yesterday but given where the thread was heading, I chose to wait until today. There was some self-preservation involved there (despite being able to win when dying, I want to play). I think I’m the kind of person who would take a tonne of sus today because people would have thought I was trying to save bea. This is the kind of thing that happens to me.

Fully with you on Michelle as well as Quin though.

I'm gonna breeze past the fact that "posts one-liners" is both inaccurate to my play and a shitty reason for a vote, and dive right into the fact that you have no business waiting to make cases when you were specifically interested in alternate wagons yesterday. Why the hell would you wait to make a case on me if you are town?

I'm just gonna go right back to this and say:

I cannot see any world in which civ quin asks the question 'why the hell would you wait to make a case on me if you are town?'

I think this is an inherently 'knew bea was a civ on day 4' mindset.

[Golden]

linki: because DH is town.

Curious that you use DH not SVS here.

[Golden]

The only difference is that you would hypothetically have only put effort into one of the wagons.

Your proposed DF wagon was pure tokenism. You didn't actually care about alternate wagons at all.

Your hypothetical Quin wagon didn't happen because you didn't want to risk getting heat. You definitely didn't actually care about alternate wagons at all.

You're trying to pretzel logic me.

I cared about the wagon on DF insomuch as I hoped it might catch a baddie trying to save bea.

I did not care for genuinely attempting to lynch someone who was not bea because it would not have been successful, bea would have flipped (mafia, in my mind), and I didn't want to deal with a day of 'golden is bad because he tried to save bea'.

Because spending a day defending myself from that when I could just wait until 5 and go for you then felt exhausting.

Every golden of the past mafia career would have done it anyway. This golden didn't. Perhaps I'm maturing, but I really just am prioritising keeping my own sanity as much as possible, and other people's too, because in your face golden isn't really *that* much fun. The thread had already decided the outcome of the day, it didn't need my tangent. Worst case scenario was I got NKed and then someone else had to case you.

That's the last time I'll explain it, I think I've been clear enough about my mindset.

(And if anyone not named Quin actually has a problem with me trying to avoid that - just think of some of the shitshow tunnel fights I've had in the past. I really just want to avoid them with everything I've got... for the rest of whatever mafia career I have left. They don't appeal).

[Quin]

@Sloonei i have confidence loss after Bea flipped civ. So I am stating a fact, I don’t understand it but I’m open to perspectives.

What are you thinking of Quin, Michelle and Golden? They are all POE for me and they shouldn’t be at this point.

Let’s pretend I have no thoughts until I have read their ISOs.

We’ll keep me posted. IMO Golden hasn’t had his own case on anyone, Quin seems to be made of alternating witty and snarky one liners, and Michelle hasn’t had a really solid opinion on anyone. I wanted to put that out there, since I’m doing some reassessing.

I think perhaps reading the first two days for this where I was present and contributing a lot would be helpful.

I wasn’t around much on D3… although I feel like my case on G-Man was my own and I wasn’t sheeping, in fact since I wasn’t around I don’t actually know what other peoples cases were.

Fully agree I didn’t make my own case on bea, but it didn’t seem necessary.

I would have made a case on Quin yesterday but given where the thread was heading, I chose to wait until today. There was some self-preservation involved there (despite being able to win when dying, I want to play). I think I’m the kind of person who would take a tonne of sus today because people would have thought I was trying to save bea. This is the kind of thing that happens to me.

Fully with you on Michelle as well as Quin though.

I'm gonna breeze past the fact that "posts one-liners" is both inaccurate to my play and a shitty reason for a vote, and dive right into the fact that you have no business waiting to make cases when you were specifically interested in alternate wagons yesterday. Why the hell would you wait to make a case on me if you are town?

I'm just gonna go right back to this and say:

I cannot see any world in which civ quin asks the question 'why the hell would you wait to make a case on me if you are town?'

I think this is an inherently 'knew bea was a civ on day 4' mindset.

Let's say I believe you. You didn't make the case on me because you thought it could backfire on you and get you lynched that Day.

My next question is, "Why does civ Golden not make his case that Night?"

[Golden]

@Sloonei i have confidence loss after Bea flipped civ. So I am stating a fact, I don’t understand it but I’m open to perspectives.

What are you thinking of Quin, Michelle and Golden? They are all POE for me and they shouldn’t be at this point.

Let’s pretend I have no thoughts until I have read their ISOs.

We’ll keep me posted. IMO Golden hasn’t had his own case on anyone, Quin seems to be made of alternating witty and snarky one liners, and Michelle hasn’t had a really solid opinion on anyone. I wanted to put that out there, since I’m doing some reassessing.

I think perhaps reading the first two days for this where I was present and contributing a lot would be helpful.

I wasn’t around much on D3… although I feel like my case on G-Man was my own and I wasn’t sheeping, in fact since I wasn’t around I don’t actually know what other peoples cases were.

Fully agree I didn’t make my own case on bea, but it didn’t seem necessary.

I would have made a case on Quin yesterday but given where the thread was heading, I chose to wait until today. There was some self-preservation involved there (despite being able to win when dying, I want to play). I think I’m the kind of person who would take a tonne of sus today because people would have thought I was trying to save bea. This is the kind of thing that happens to me.

Fully with you on Michelle as well as Quin though.

I'm gonna breeze past the fact that "posts one-liners" is both inaccurate to my play and a shitty reason for a vote, and dive right into the fact that you have no business waiting to make cases when you were specifically interested in alternate wagons yesterday. Why the hell would you wait to make a case on me if you are town?

I'm just gonna go right back to this and say:

I cannot see any world in which civ quin asks the question 'why the hell would you wait to make a case on me if you are town?'

I think this is an inherently 'knew bea was a civ on day 4' mindset.

Let's say I believe you. You didn't make the case on me because you thought it could backfire on you and get you lynched that Day.

My next question is, "Why does civ Golden not make his case that Night?"

I didn't say anything about it getting me lynched that day. Or today.

I didn't want to deal with the shit. I'm not afraid of a lynch.

I don't make cases at night.

[Golden]

(But also the night consisted of me working, me going to my mothers birthday, me sleeping, and then me forgetting I was playing mafia for most of the day until after the night was over, so even if I had planned to it wouldn't have happened).

[Quin]

Let’s pretend I have no thoughts until I have read their ISOs.

We’ll keep me posted. IMO Golden hasn’t had his own case on anyone, Quin seems to be made of alternating witty and snarky one liners, and Michelle hasn’t had a really solid opinion on anyone. I wanted to put that out there, since I’m doing some reassessing.

I think perhaps reading the first two days for this where I was present and contributing a lot would be helpful.

I wasn’t around much on D3… although I feel like my case on G-Man was my own and I wasn’t sheeping, in fact since I wasn’t around I don’t actually know what other peoples cases were.

Fully agree I didn’t make my own case on bea, but it didn’t seem necessary.

I would have made a case on Quin yesterday but given where the thread was heading, I chose to wait until today. There was some self-preservation involved there (despite being able to win when dying, I want to play). I think I’m the kind of person who would take a tonne of sus today because people would have thought I was trying to save bea. This is the kind of thing that happens to me.

Fully with you on Michelle as well as Quin though.

I'm gonna breeze past the fact that "posts one-liners" is both inaccurate to my play and a shitty reason for a vote, and dive right into the fact that you have no business waiting to make cases when you were specifically interested in alternate wagons yesterday. Why the hell would you wait to make a case on me if you are town?

I'm just gonna go right back to this and say:

I cannot see any world in which civ quin asks the question 'why the hell would you wait to make a case on me if you are town?'

I think this is an inherently 'knew bea was a civ on day 4' mindset.

Let's say I believe you. You didn't make the case on me because you thought it could backfire on you and get you lynched that Day.

My next question is, "Why does civ Golden not make his case that Night?"

I didn't say anything about it getting me lynched that day. Or today.

I didn't want to deal with the shit. I'm not afraid of a lynch.

I don't make cases at night.

Then why'st the hell did it matter?

[Golden]

There’s only so many times I can say the same thing.

I’m disengaging and going to bed now.

[Quin]

You don't care that looking like you're trying to save bea could get heat on you.

You don't want to case Quin because it could could get heat on you.

Make it make sense.

[S~V~S]

You don't care that looking like you're trying to save bea could get heat on you.

You don't want to case Quin because it could could get heat on you.

Make it make sense.

I got up and read your ISO and decided I misread you, and I know why. I paid attention to the Lorab vote, I followed parts of that in real time. And as a *non player* I loathed the tone you took with her and that colored my reads of you going forward. And you fell off a bit after that. But that’s where “snarky one liners” came from

Looking at things you said in ISO, I found myself constantly clicking into the thread. So I’ll be around today but I’m going to try to read days 1 & 2 organically because that’s easier for me to get a feel for than ISOs. I’ll probably comment on it as I go along , y’all tag me if you need me.

[Elohcin]

RIP Kate. I really thought we were right about Bea. My problem in mafia is if I get one wrong, I start to question everything I'm thinking.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
This post mentions every player but me.

I was secretly hoping y’all would pick Llama to come back, since he’s more on brand for the theme of this game and I thought his space apart from the game would have given him some fresh reads. But I get why y’all brought me back. Thanks.

So, before I launch into what I have observed from the great yonder (It’s cold and dark out there), I’d prefer to hear from players as to who their top suspects are as we start the day. I don’t want to color anyone’s reads.

RIP Kate

With Bea removed as as part of the G Man lynch cluster, I’m back where I was re Sloonei and not understanding how that lynch went down if Sloonei is a civ.

I feel ok about Wilgy, and Vivax. Sig and Faraday are slightly green question marks. Golden and Michelle are double question marks. I am feeling less than great about Sloonei and Quin.

I look forward to hearing your opinions.

[Golden]

You don't care that looking like you're trying to save bea could get heat on you.

You don't want to case Quin because it could could get heat on you.

Make it make sense.

Grr I never said I didn’t care about heat for appearing to try and save bea. I specifically said that would be frustrating, just the kind of thing I’d take heat for, and not particularly fun.

But I’m not afraid of a lynch. I did think making a big case against you yesterday could get me NKed, also why I don’t case at night. I didn’t think it was likely to get me lynched.

[S~V~S]

RIP Kate. I really thought we were right about Bea. My problem in mafia is if I get one wrong, I start to question everything I'm thinking.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
This post mentions every player but me.

I was secretly hoping y’all would pick Llama to come back, since he’s more on brand for the theme of this game and I thought his space apart from the game would have given him some fresh reads. But I get why y’all brought me back. Thanks.

So, before I launch into what I have observed from the great yonder (It’s cold and dark out there), I’d prefer to hear from players as to who their top suspects are as we start the day. I don’t want to color anyone’s reads.

RIP Kate

With Bea removed as as part of the G Man lynch cluster, I’m back where I was re Sloonei and not understanding how that lynch went down if Sloonei is a civ.

I feel ok about Wilgy, and Vivax. Sig and Faraday are slightly green question marks. Golden and Michelle are double question marks. I am feeling less than great about Sloonei and Quin.

I look forward to hearing your opinions.

Because I think, as I have all game since my first post, that you are civ. It has been 3 people I my circle of trust since day one, Kate was NKed, Scotty was NKed, I was choosing to keep towncore closer to the vest.

But since you’re pointing it out, I think you’re a civ. That’s why I poked at Quin when he voted for you the other night.

[sig]

11 players left 3 mafia.


We’re still in a good place thankfully. (Assuming Scotty isn’t mafia which I’d have assumed if he was vigged said vig would’ve been freaking out)

I’m leaning toward Michelle or Quin. Quin based off and Michelle is mainly gut.

Bea’s flip semi clears DF for me since he was also insaned

Don't understand how being insaned clears DF for you

no

I thought people who missed votes were the ones who were insanified?

Not sure about that, and you aren't either, which is why this is off to me. Because it's worded as if sig's assuming that it only affects town, which is something town shouldn't know.

Bea’s flip semi clears DF for me since he was also insaned

I’m operating under the assumption missed vote = insanified.

Even prior to Bea flip I was leaning toward anyway who was insanified day 2 is town and potentially day 3. I just think someone on mafia would’ve caught the rule hint and made sure everyone voted while if town didn’t closely read the rules they’d miss it.

This to me makes DF look much better since I’m thinking inactive towb.

[sig]

If you can't see the difference between me not worrying about taking heat from making literally zero effort from trying to get DF lynched and explaining exactly why I thought a counterwagon was a good idea while also flagging that I wasn't doing it because DF was my prime suspect (the primary factor was that Vivax was already voting there and two votes might actually entice a slip to save bea)

Versus casing you and making an empassioned case for your lynch...

I don't know what to tell you.

Thank you for clarifying.

There is no difference.

This is bullsuit.

No, you.

[VOTE: Golden] aubergine

I won’t lie, I love this got a chuckle out of me

[sig]

11 players left 3 mafia.


We’re still in a good place thankfully. (Assuming Scotty isn’t mafia which I’d have assumed if he was vigged said vig would’ve been freaking out)

I’m leaning toward Michelle or Quin. Quin based off and Michelle is mainly gut.

Bea’s flip semi clears DF for me since he was also insaned

Being insaned means they just missed the vote. How does that clear anybody?

I mean it doesn’t lick clear him but for me at least it’s some townie points.

Maybe I’m totally off base and if nobody else supports the theory I’ll drop it, but it seemed logical to me

[sig]

Okay so my issue right now is I’ve got literally zero scum reads and very few scum pings.


Llama was very anti Quin which seems like a place to maybe place a vote.

I could see Sloonie or Golden being mafia, based off the High posting theory which I do think is true + Gman not voting for sloonie is eyebrow raising.

Additionally it’s clear mafia are now shooting for high content people so why go Llama than Scotty but leave golden and sloonie.

Michelle is still a gut mafia lean I’m nursing but I’ve got zero reason for it besides gut

[sig]

Also this Quin/Golden dust up is giving C/C or is it T/T? Imo

[Vivax]

Okay so my issue right now is I’ve got literally zero scum reads and very few scum pings.


Llama was very anti Quin which seems like a place to maybe place a vote.

I could see Sloonie or Golden being mafia, based off the High posting theory which I do think is true + Gman not voting for sloonie is eyebrow raising.

Additionally it’s clear mafia are now shooting for high content people so why go Llama than Scotty but leave golden and sloonie.

Michelle is still a gut mafia lean I’m nursing but I’ve got zero reason for it besides gut

Good point about the highposters, but voting llama will be tough while he's hanging around in hades.

p-edit: Don't really lean either way on Quin/Golden interactions on this day

[Vivax]

Ahhh I misread again. I'll put on my robe and dunce hat

[sig]

The iffy players for me right now would be
1. Sloonie
2. Michelle
3. Quin
4. DF
5. Vivax
6. Golden

In that order of suspicion. My DF theory doesn’t really seem to be connecting with anyone else so maybe that’s wrong.

Quin/Golden aren’t both mafia

NAA had a strong start and I like some of Vivax posts but nothing stands out as super civvie.

Michelle is gut

Quin is mainly Llama and slight gut

BUT Quin being off wagon for Bea was a bit odd maybe but weird that Golden brought that up when he built a small counter wagon which he then dumped. didnt he do the same thing he accused Quin of doing?

[sig]

Ahhh I misread again. I'll put on my robe and dunce hat

Lol no problem it wasn’t super clear

[Scotty]

@Quin who do you suspect in this game?

And don’t say Golden- that vote today is a blatant OMGUS. Your last few votes in order were Kate, Sloonei, Elo.

I have no idea who you actually find suspicious in this game.

[Sloonei]

I wake up to find out that New Zealand and Australia are at war!?

[S~V~S]

I am mostly through day 1, and having the knowledge of subsequent deaths is helping me to get a better feel, and regain a bit of confidence. I've always been a "bull in the china shop" type of civvie, and it's a shitty bull that lacks confidence, that isn't how you break china.

@Sloonei I have a MUCH better feel for you, and am going to accept the real possibility that the baddies were trying to paint a baddie target on you. You are definitely more tentative than I recall you being, but then so am I and so are alot of people in this thread. I have seen some stuff in Day 1 in context (this works for me soooo much better than ISO's) and a quick ISO of the time between than and where I came in, during day 3, that clarifies you for me.

Dharma, llama I think are town
weaker TR on Wilgy

Could be tempted to townbin scotty + axe, but will decide later. More chaotic and less calculated suggests town)

Agree about Llama, they passed the vibe test until now

Voting for a Day 1 low-poster is a last resort option in the absence of “real” suspects.

This

Yet ... yet .... you voted for a low poster, and your rationale (not even in your voting post)

[VOTE: Dfaraday] aubergine

I know I will have to make a decision re Golden v. Quin, I have waffly feels re both Golden and Quin. Initially I had this "Baddie! Burn the Baddie!" thing going on in my head re Quin, but then when i realized why, and read him in context, that settled down and stopped coloring my reads. Then while I haven't felt a massively strong read on Golden, two things he's said, when he asked Kate if she was sure of me, then Kate dies that night. Then today, this:

Also funny that you just 'breezed right past' SVS's comment and chose to focus on me.

I know it's "Not all about me" (a chasm many mafia players fall into, imo, thinking the thread play revolves around them, and it's a mistake I'm prone to at times). But But this really feels like the baddies knew they had to get rid of the both of us, and I'd be an easier lynch. Planting those seeds, man.

So re those two, I'm still not getting a clear thread on either, but they've swapped spaces in my head canon.

So imma drop a placeholder vote on [VOTE: Michelle] aubergine cause I also think she could be bad. I think her overall ISO is wishy, and reading in context she is self contradictory.

Although I do give her civvie props for the poll shapshots, super useful and a good town look, especially if you are trying to cultivate a town look.

So this is likely to change, as I said, I need to make a choice re Golden/Quin in my own mind.

[Scotty]

Hokay. This is long.

GMan Eccentricities

GMan is a statistical person and I tbink I can learn a lot by looking at the way he frames reads. Standouts from GMan’s brief ISO:

Spoiler: show

Very early groupings from a Day 1 dunce:

I'm not inclined to chop anyone with a lower post count than myself, so that means a stay of execution for LoRab, DF, and Kate for now. Let them establish themselves for at least the night phase and we'll see what shakes out.

I feel good about Llama, so he's off the list for now as well. I don't see what some folks are seeing in Eloh (who has been classic mischop bait in the past).

Vivax is shiny and new to me, so I'm inclined to give them the BOTD for now.

I feel like chopping from the top half of the post count will yield the most content to pick through, so that leaves me with a prospective list of Scotty, Sloonei, Golden the Coward, DH, bea, Michelle, and NAA.

Seeing that the Rez Plz event includes only players who die without flipping, I might hesitate to mischop a few of those names because of their potential utility as rezzable civs. I hope that you all can make my decision-making process easier on me by doing things that sort you all out a little more by the time I'm eating my breakfast in the morning.

“I'm not inclined to chop anyone with a lower post count than myself, so that means a stay of execution for LoRab, DF, and Kate for now. Let them establish themselves for at least the night phase and we'll see what shakes out.”

-If we use the ‘Rule of Three’, DF looks suspect with this grouping.

-Also to note how arbitrary this was. Several people had about 2-3 more posts than GMan at the time of this post. Guess what? He didn’t include those people in this entire grouping.
Out of 17 players, he listed 14 in this post.
Ostensibly missing were:
-Wilgy (3 more posts than GMan)
-Quin (2 more posts than GMan)
-fingersplints (1 more post than GMan)

At least one of those players is probably bad. It’s most likely not splints. Which leaves one or both of Quin and Wilgy. Book it.

Moving on

Spoiler: show

Valiant warrior, @NotAnAxehole, you have succeeded in making me forget which letter I am on. Name your reward and I will take it under consideration.

Spoiler: show

NAA makes GMan forget to do his lettering. Call me superstitious but I don’t think GMan calls his teammate out on that or that he would bring it to light.
+15 points for GryffiNAAdor

Spoiler: show

Vanishing for most of the phase was not my intention. Here is a short version of what I have so far:

Several tiers based on participation-

Big Talk- Scotty, Sloonei, Golden coward, DH- I would be shocked if there wasn’t a baddie in that group. Maybe two, but lots of productive chatter for the most part.

Llama in a tier of his own, but I still feel loose llama is good llama.

VivAxe or Viv2.0, Eloh, Michelle, Quin- mixed bag here. Eloh was sussed yesterday, Viv2.0 is a reset and still murky on D1 NAA read, Michelle feels most ambiguous (her posts didn’t make any impression on me), and same goes for Quin. These folks are at radar-level. I need to ISO to see if I detected a skimmer.

Kate, sig, Bea, Wilgy- 1/2 seem off the table today and the sig is less memorable that Wilgy licking everything in sight. Under the radar crew- also need ISOs to find manufactured content.


G-Man, LoRab, DF- low posters. Not ideal to find myself in that camp that must be ‘dealt with’ before too long. I saw points about LR’s evasiveness but I’m not exactly one to harp on that without being a hypocrite just yet. DF… just needs to show up for the weekend and get some content before he becomes an afterthought to everything happening in the present.

I will try to speed read the day and make a vote after I get back from wife’s birthday dinner.

Too many null reads for me right now- not a good look. Need to get my head back in the game and sort out some townclears to help my poe.

“Big Talk- Scotty, Sloonei, Golden coward, DH- I would be shocked if there wasn’t a baddie in that group. Maybe two, but lots of productive chatter for the most part.”

This will become a recurring tinfoil for GMan: the “big posters” theory
Though can it be a tinfoil hat if he is the alien?

GMan is too tinfoily with this theory too consistently for it to be true. I HIGHLY doubt he does this and harps on there being 2 in the group of Me, Sloonei, Golden, DH if there actually is.

Fast forward to more recently:

Spoiler: show

Vocal players are vocal. Here's my two cents:

-Scotty should be in everyone's towncore. His logic and non-emotional approach is what is needed to win the game. Fight me.

-DH's emotions got the better of him and I just don't see that coming from a baddie DH who wasn't cornered yet. S~V~S (*waves*) made a good point about how DH would use the baddie chat to vent. If you have a chat, that's where one vents to keep you from going all Johnny Fairplay with the AtE. I read DH as town and S~V~S gets a heaping portion of benefit of the doubt as a result. I haven't seen anything tricksy from her yet, and I've witnessed her tricksy firsthand before.

-I said a while back that there's got to be a baddie among the big talkers or else this game would harmonize. That leaves Sloonei and Golden. Since my efforts are already eliciting snickers and eyerolls, I suspect my name is the only real option on the chopping block today. That's fine. Take that and learn from it, but be sure to Thunderdome Sloonei and Golden at some point soon, because one of them has to be bad or this game is whack. Golden got a little emotional right back at DH Night 2, and Sloonei is the inverse- that sort of emotionless Spock thing.

All four of these folks are game-solving (which is what I was going for when I said supatown- don't get hung up on semantics), but there's gotta be a baddie in there. Weeding out Scotty and DH/S~V~S, and that pushes both Sloonei and Golden into the poe for Thunderdome.


Not the POE (because Towncore is apparently too strong a term for casual use):
-Bea
-DH/S~V~S
-Eloh
-Kate
-Scotty
-Sig
-VivAxe


POE:
-DF
-DrWilgy
-Golden the Coward
-Michelle
-Quin
-Sloonei


All names are in alphabetical order. I can parse through my notes in the morning to try to rank them in a more concrete fashion. Right now I need sleep (and a new dehumidifier).

Do you see it? The subtle disillusionment and parsing of his big talker theory from Me/Golden/Sloonei/DH > Golden/Sloonei. Scotty (become obvtown), and DH (too emotional to be mafia) / SVS (not tricksy yet) are out of the POE

I’m about willing to say Golden and Sloonei look GREAT for this. Looking less good? DH/SVS for the exclusion.

Spoiler: show

Vanishing for most of the phase was not my intention. Here is a short version of what I have so far:

Several tiers based on participation-

Big Talk- Scotty, Sloonei, Golden coward, DH- I would be shocked if there wasn’t a baddie in that group. Maybe two, but lots of productive chatter for the most part.

Llama in a tier of his own, but I still feel loose llama is good llama.

VivAxe or Viv2.0, Eloh, Michelle, Quin- mixed bag here. Eloh was sussed yesterday, Viv2.0 is a reset and still murky on D1 NAA read, Michelle feels most ambiguous (her posts didn’t make any impression on me), and same goes for Quin. These folks are at radar-level. I need to ISO to see if I detected a skimmer.

Kate, sig, Bea, Wilgy- 1/2 seem off the table today and the sig is less memorable that Wilgy licking everything in sight. Under the radar crew- also need ISOs to find manufactured content.


G-Man, LoRab, DF- low posters. Not ideal to find myself in that camp that must be ‘dealt with’ before too long. I saw points about LR’s evasiveness but I’m not exactly one to harp on that without being a hypocrite just yet. DF… just needs to show up for the weekend and get some content before he becomes an afterthought to everything happening in the present.

I will try to speed read the day and make a vote after I get back from wife’s birthday dinner.

Too many null reads for me right now- not a good look. Need to get my head back in the game and sort out some townclears to help my poe.

“G-Man, LoRab, DF- low posters. Not ideal to find myself in that camp that must be ‘dealt with’ before too long. I saw points about LR’s evasiveness but I’m not exactly one to harp on that without being a hypocrite just yet. DF… just needs to show up for the weekend and get some content before he becomes an afterthought to everything happening in the present.”

Guess what again? Rule of Three. Except GMan clumped himself in it, I almost think his name doesn’t count for this rule. This is something I’ve also done unconsciously if I want to simultaneously self slander myself in the name of an ally and present myself as a humble civilian. DF looks suspect by proxy in this rule again.

“VivAxe or Viv2.0, Eloh, Michelle, Quin- mixed bag here. Eloh was sussed yesterday, Viv2.0 is a reset and still murky on D1 NAA read, Michelle feels most ambiguous (her posts didn’t make any impression on me), and same goes for Quin. These folks are at radar-level. I need to ISO to see if I detected a skimmer.

Kate, sig, Bea, Wilgy- 1/2 seem off the table today and the sig is less memorable that Wilgy licking everything in sight. Under the radar crew- also need ISOs to find manufactured content.”

These groupings are less conclusive. I feel as tho these groupings are important, however, because I think GMan could have conceptually clumped all of these players into the same tier, but he separated it into two. I highly suspect there are not multiple mafia in the same list. So I doubt there are 2 mafia in { Kate, sig, bea, Wilgy}
Nor
{Vivax2.0/Elo/Michelle/Quin}

Spoiler: show

Variations on a Read List, Part 1
by G-Man

Inconclusive (But Not Necessarily in a Bad Way):
-DharmaHelper
-DrWilgy
-Quin

DH is a stone's throw away from the trio I just talked about. I always auto-sussed him due to his tone and a string of evil victories in the past, but that makes him mis-chop bait and I try to temper that. I'd like to ISO him first of all the big talkers. I was more comfortable voting for LoRab (sorry again for tying that vote up) because DH had his head in the game and at that point it would have been worse to lose DH as a civ player trying to break the game than to lose LoRab who hadn't contributed much by that point. DH can be a force and I want to see if I can determine if he is a force for good or evil.

Wilgy's lick thing was amusing and he continues to come across as harmless. His ISO will be helpful in showing me if he has contributed to game-solving at all today. That's going to become more important. Day 3 will start with us at 10 vs 4 since the 3P is dead. There's a little margin for error on D3, but we need folks to step it up or else the tension will mount and we run the risk of desperation mistakes on a D4 that's 8 vs 4.

Quin's voice is out there, but it's gotten lost for me in the sea of DH-Golden-Scotty-Sloonei content. I don't love that. I know Quin is capable of a slick baddie game, but I also don't remember feeling too cautious about him early on. I need to ISO him early as well. He's another one who can step things up when the game requires it, and the game is going to require it here soon.



Inconclusive (But Not Necessarily in a Good Way):
-Kate
-Michelle
-sig

Unlike Bea, Kate came back after a posting restriction and wasn't able to get her head in the game in a good way. I understand it's been forever since she's played and that can be a tough adjustment. Attitudes and personalities can make it even harder. But I didn't see much initially that suggested she was following the game with the intent of jumping right back into the fray. Granted, she seems to have been targeted by the baddie team with the OT Green posting, so maybe I shouldn't be as concerned with her. I hear the WIFOM argument of the baddies OT'ing a teammate, but on Night 1? It feels like a stretch to me.

Michelle's got content, but I still feel so blank to it. It's not meaty or fluffy. It just evaporates in my mind. Has she posted anything to chew on since this morning?

Sig is kind of the same way for me. There's content, but I remember none of it (except the in-joke stuff about him always getting chopped to early). I don't like forgetting about people by the end of D2.


Still a Null Read (And That Needs To Change)
-DFaraday
-VivAxe

Note- this category is not the bad list. It's just null, existing outside of reads and vibes.

DF hasn't posted much at all. As with LoRab, I'm not in good standing to bash low-posters, but it's troublesome for me. I can't get a read on you if you don't post. I think we have better points of discussion that are active right now, but I hate that lingering concern about a low-participation player becoming an easy target if we screw up D3 and get desperate.

VivAxe is still tricky for me. I tend to just shrug Axe off on D1's, so his departure leaves me with a day of nothingness on that slot. Vivax replaced in, but Vivax is new to me, so that compounds the nullness of it all. An ISO of D2 content should help move VivAxe into another category.

This one is a doozy. Some of his most substantive word salad to date.
Groupings (and I don’t qualify this as following the rule of three BECAUSE he doesn’t just lop these names together, but in stead goes into detail on each. The details are important.)

(Upper townleans) DH/Wilgy/Quin

DH: “a stone’s throw away from the trio I just talked about”
Well, he talked about 4 people, and DH was one of them, so this is an odd framing.

Wilgy: “I need to read his ISO; he needs to step it up”

Quin: “I need to read his ISO; he needs to step it up.”

(Lower townleans) Kate/Michelle/sig

Kate: “she seemed to have been OT targeted”
We can safely assume Kate is civ and GMan goes into a lengthy reason as to his feelings with her. It almost sounds like he believes she is civ.

Michelle: “not meaty or fluffy, her content just evaporates in my mind. Has she posted anything to chew on since this morning?”

Sig: “kind of the same way for me”

Unlike the tier above, he asks the thread at large if Michelle posted, and just says sig is forgettable instead of saying he needs to read their ISO. Very different way of handling Quin and Wilgy. I think one or both of Michelle/sig at least are on a different team than one or both of Wilgy/Quin. Im leaning Michelle and sig = good for how pointed and brief his suspicion of her was.


(Null reads, aka existing outside of our dimension in a self imposed Twilight Zone) DF/Vivax2.0

DF: “lack of posting is troublesome; I hate that lingering concern about a low-participation player becoming an easy target if we screw up D3 and get desperate.”

Way to hedge the suspicion by saying DF will just be LHF. Gives him a nice out.

Vivax2.0: “Vivax is new to me; I need to ISO him”

He needs to ISO like Wilgy and Quin, but curiously where Wilgy and Quin seemed to offer more for GMan to bite on before giving another ISO, Vivax2.0 is just tricky because he doesn’t know him.

Spoiler: show

@G-Man DFaraday had the same posting curse as bea yesterday, if that changes your theory at all.

Valuable information there. I didn't catch that. Lemme go check. It's not like his ISO will take long.

Sloonei offers to help clear up DF’s posting, and GMan happily says he appreciates the lead. Does absolutely nothing with it

Spoiler: show

Like…if you were to take the energy you’re putting into this guffawing and defensive hullabaloo you’re dishing out and put it into reading the game at large, I think we’d all be more productive

Verisimilitude is not the same as truth, but this post, after all the lengthy D2 chatter, puts Scotty over the edge for me and I have moved him into my towncore tier. The structure of this post strikes me as a legit civvie mindset from a place of pure focus. Looking back through at Scotty, his tone (for the most part) seems to be non-emotional without being emotionless. That's the lynchpin for my brain. There's logic with the desire to avoid getting sucked into the emotional side of the game. It's there, almost all the time. In this post alone, he's focused on one thing- moving the game forward. Is it a dig at DH, yes. But it's not an invitation to mud wrestle. It's a logical slap and request to rise above. If there is a baddie in the big talkers, I rule out Scotty. Golden and DH both got caught up in the emotional side of the game. That's not a putdown or a judgement on either of them. Emotion happens. And emotions are harder to cut through and interpret.

ISO of purely N1/D2 posts:

G-Man:

Spoiler: show

Says the Vivax lynch "simplifies" the game "for us". The rest is fairly fluffy/OT.

Overall Read - Not bothered to fuck with a guy who has IRL stuff he's doing, but also, miffed that he's not addressed my ISO from D1 so he's still suspicious to me.

I suppose its not NOT insignificant that G-Man's most recent post continues to ignore the points against him but I guess thats cool.

In fast-moving games (most games, really) I tend to just keep pressing forward. This amplifies when I have to catch up. Your thoughts weren't worth my time the minute they were posted. Sure, on Day 1, we have to do something to try and make some luck and find a foothold or two. You posted thoughts, not a case. I can't punch holes in thoughts, but what you wrote was indicative of the need to hire a copy editor because it was a disastrous misreading of my posts. But you're not inside my head, are you? You misinterpreted some of what I wrote. It happens. Just because I don't stop and respond to your one thoughts post or all the mopey posts bemoaning the fact that I brushed you off doesn't mean a thing. I'm trying to move forward and get my nostrils above water in this game, so when you build a case, please @ me and I'll address it. Until then,

Spoiler: show

Your D2 content was as awkward to read at times as it is to listen to my sister yell at her children all the time because she has a short fuse. I like you better when you're posting snarky, confident TWD memes. Where did they go? Please chill out a little and bring them back. No mafia game is worth getting bent out of shape over. This goes for Golden as well. Learn to walk away, do some deep breathing, and reflect on what you wrote before you hit 'Submit.'

Wowee. That list bit is the most backlash that GMan has served back all game, replying to DH. In some ways, it looks a little overembellished. Like, it was beginning to sound like my usual array stupid quips and similes. Like, he ends a whole paragraph with a sign off “Until then, <meme>” and surprisingly takes off his hoop earrings and launches into another paragraph with more quips and comparisons. It’s a little…too heavy handed. I question if that is just GMan insecurely responding to criticism or if it is manufactured drama between teammates. But it is something to note for DH and GMan that for all of this, I don’t think either player actually accuses the other of anything. I’d say this is a bad look for DH

This is followed up by GMan having a crisis of character:

Spoiler: show

Virtue seems to have been absent for me last night.

@DharmaHelper my post at you sounded witty and snarky in my head at 12:30 a.m., but my brain woke me up over it twice last night. Now it reads more like a nasty asshole wrote it. That is not what I aspire to be. I apologize.

The salient point is that I brush past individual observations like yours most of the time and only slow down when it seems like misinterpretations and mischaracterizations are catching on as either a spreading theory or groupthink. You had a lot of points about me that were wrong but it would have been too much time and effort to slow down and refute that many points. Too much micro-focus on stuff like that is also something baddies fall into. I have the luxury of not needing to worry about little details that much because I am a civvie.

Sorry if my post pushed you further to or further over the edge.

This may just cement that it truly is just GMan’s insecurity talking and not necessarily teammate hutzpah. This looks like a legitimate apology that I don’t think a teammate would make. Looks better for DH

Spoiler: show

Vigorous day of ISO'ing ahead for me (but I have some work to do as well). I'm starting with the ISO's that are less extensive. Before I get to the first few, I'll be referencing this image for vote analysis, even though there isn't a whole lot to work with yet because of the D1 switch.

Spoiler: show

I'm working from the assumption that the baddies have not NK'd one of their own. Points have been made to rationalize the mafia's kill choices as safe plays. It also makes no sense from a baddie's perspective to diminish your ratio and extend the game so early on.

D1's switch got rid of the 3P, but it also robs us of taking a results-oriented look at the day. Everyone who received votes on D1 is still alive.

Random facts that I saw but don't mean anything yet: 1) three of the four D1 Sloonei voters are all now dead; 2) Quin & Sloonei are the only people whose votes match each other for both days.

I also made an old-school role poe chart, but I don't know if I should share it or if it will be too useful for the baddies as well.

Now then, on to some ISO's. I'm trying to formulate a town core without leaving too many people in the sus pile. Assuming 4 baddies in the game and 14 players left, my goal is to have a poe of no greater than six just because we don't have enough margin for error to consider too wide a poe pool.


BEA:
Overall, her ISO looks pretty good. A little lean on game-relevant content but she was easing back into things. Her worst post looks to be the one where she expressed dismay about not wanting to vote for any of the trains involved in a three-way tie at the time with what she thought was only 30 minutes to go, but her very next post may well be a townslip in which she realizes (via someone's response) that there was another 24 hours left on the poll. Could it be manufactured? Sure. But I don't know that baddies either 1) forget the poll deadline, or 2) try to fake that sort of slip. She spends D2 with letter weirdness but she jumped back into the game strong, showing that she didn't use the phase as a coasting opportunity. Good look there. The only curious thing that stands out to me otherwise is her habit of declaring the OG folks as being 'on point' for their years-ago meta. She used that phrase a few times when evaluating.

Votes: Missed D1, VivAxe D2 (@bea Why VivAxe again? Was it more Viv or more Axe? I don't see your vote declared in your ISO.)



DF:
Posts a promise-to-catch-up post at the end of N0, misses all of D1, has a right (imo) read on Eloh. Also cursed with switched vowels D2. Another promise post, and then a post in which he says that LoRab's tone reminds him of her past baddie tone and he votes for her. That's it. Four posts. @DFaraday Now that you are not cursed, can you point to a few of LoRab's posts that led you to the wrong conclusion about her tone meta? DF is about as inconclusive as it gets. With no real room for null reads at this point, I have to put him in my poe. It's not because I find him suspicious, but because I have no reason to townclear him based on his content thus far.

Votes: Missed D1, LoRab D2


DrWilgy:
He miss N0, which is neither here nor there. The lick thing was cute, but also ISO'ing reveals that it was inconsistent. His first few licks are for people he voted for. Then the licks seem to switch to take on a positive (?) connotation. @DrWilgy Can you please pause the goofiness to explain the licking thing? He makes a comment about Michelle being bad for not having solved things yet; I take this to be a joke. Otherwise it's a conspicuous break in his shtick. There's a lot of explaining what people tasted like when he licked them. I don't know what to make of his comments on how Eloh and Viv tasted. That was his D1. Nothing useful. D2 he seems to latch onto sig but then backtracks. Late in the day D2 he admits to having no conclusions on the game yet. He later seems to enjoy the tension and chaos of eod, but then wasn't keen on letting the moderator break the tie. If this were D2, I'd give Wilgy a null read, but this is D3 and the whimsical nature of his game so far hasn't been very productive. All those licks and he hasn't gotten to the center of a single player's Tootsie Pop yet to form a read? It's enough to leave me unable to townclear him.

Votes: Golden D1, Quin D2


Elohcin:
I still think the D1 sus of her was overblown at best and disingenuous at worst. I hope to source the origin of her train through these ISO's. She was sus of Vivax 1.0 and Sloonei. She continued to be sus of Sloonei D2, and there is the supposed townslip. Despite Sloonei sus, she turns her attention and vote to LoRab for her unhelpfulness and tone. Now she is OT Green for the day. @Elohcin What is the state of your Sloonei suspicion? I still feel good about her. Maybe her vote for LoRab could be read as advantageous, but I haven't seen the 'agreeable tell' like I think I remember.

Votes: Sloonei D1, LoRab D2



Kate:
She spends D1 sus on Scotty. This looks wrongheaded to me now, so I am curious if her read on him changed. @Kate What's your current opinion on Scotty? I feel ashamed to say that I don't remember Kate's playstyle at all. Perhaps it's just been that long. The level of sass took me by surprise, but we were a sassy bunch back in those days. She was OT Green for D2, but she got a few non-OT posts off at the start of the day. This makes me ponder if Kate had an OG townslip here. I understand the tinfoil theory about baddies OT'ing their own to buy them space, but it doesn't seem like Kate was suddenly in danger of falling onto the radar in a bad way. Also, if a baddie is OT'd, I don't think that they make the mistake of rattling off a few non-OT posts like that. The rest of D2 was lost to OT Green. N2 she comes in hot and mixes it up with a few people, DH the most. Overall, there seems to be a fair amount of culture clash and adjustment for Kate. Not surprising for a deep OG player. I can see the difficulty with how different the game is now being a talking point that a baddie could exploit, but her frustration seems genuine and I still doubt that a baddie goofs up on the OT bit at the start of the day. Not a lock, but that possible townslip is more than enough for me to keep her out of the poe.

Votes: Scotty D1, DH D2

GMan intends to condenses his POE down to 6, though vaguely just starts ISOing in alphabetical order. bea, DF, Wilgy, Elo, Kate.

Well we can outright write off bea and Kate, and there’s no way in hell GMan would include all 3 of his teammates here in his POE in one post.
-His DF read was “inconclusive”, and in the POE not because he wants to, but because DF just isn’t giving him a choice.
-His Wilgy read was actually pretty fair and had some critical words about the lack of productivity and lack of desire to sink his teeth into the game. Can’t townclear…but also he doesn’t say that Wilgy is IN his POE like he did with DF. Just noting.
-This is the first time GMan has gone into detail about Elo suspicions and it’s a pretty civ leaning read. In a vacuum that could be suspicious, but I think looking at his posts so far, I think GMan just knows Elo is civ and hasn’t talked about her.
Listing DF as part of the POE and soft spanking Wilgy for not being productive, though not enough to expressly be part of the POE in the same post looks like GMan didn’t want to include both his teammates in the POE while still looking like he had some mean things to say. He DOES end up making those 2 the only ones in his POE, which does put a wrinkle. It is informative to know that GMan was not done with his reads, however, so having your only POE at the time of just your teammates isn’t out of the question if you’re going to continue filling it in.

Spoiler: show

Various read on the other manageable ISO's:


Michelle:
Other than a handful of posts where she posts a stance on a few players with no supporting information, Michelle collects in-the-moment vote counts. I like vote analysis, but I'm not sure I've ever gone so far as to seek out that level of detail. This leaves her D1 as a mixed bag at best. She checks out for D2, which is suboptimal. It doesn't look like she's even shown up for D3 yet. Michelle is more like Mehchelle. There was RL travel, I get that, but she didn't leave much to chew on overall. Not worthy of a town read.

Votes: Eloh D1, Missed D2



NAA/Vivax 2.0:
NAA is a bit cryptic, holds his cards close to the vest, and is punchy-awkward. He stirs the pot and then claims rolefishing. I've grown used to just looking past NAA on D1's that I feel nothing from his ISO. Vivax 2.0, however, is a different story. While I am still trying to get a feel for this ne-to-me player, they're chugging along at their own pace and producing content. Their reads differ quite a bit from mine in places, but it's okay to live outside of an echo chamber in this game. Let's see where this one goes.

Votes: Eloh D1, Quin D2



Quin:
Yikes. His D1 saw him sussing Eloh and Scotty, who are both outside of my poe by a sizeable margin. After circling back to Eloh & Scotty a few times he zags and votes DH. Then there's a lot of posting without much flavor to it, but it's at least stirred some conversation. I'm leery that Quin is more than capable of keeping this kind of dancing around the radar as a baddie. His posts go in and out of focus almost as they need to. I'd say it's not strong enough to evade the poe yet.

Votes: Eloh D1, LoRab D2



Sig:
Sig's ISO feels a lot like Quin's ISO, except that I liked it more. Most of it feels authentic, though his voting record sucks and I agree that it's not comforting to see him appear willing to coast today due to his posting affliction. It's soft, but I'll nudge him up out of the poe.

Votes: sig D1, Missed D2


Running on fumes now, so let me get to the big talkers quick.

And continuing the ISOs in alphabetical order
-Michelle is “mehchelle” (lol) and isn’t worthy of a Townread
-Viv2.0 is still new to GMan, but “let’s see where this one goes”
-With Quin, he starts off with “Yikes” and ends with a softer “His posts go in and out of focus almost as they need to. I'd say it's not strong enough to evade the poe yet.”
-sig “feels a lot like” Quin. This is the second time GMan has made a read of sig and immediately equated his play to someone else (Michelle last). But sig looks better than Quin and isn’t in the POE. Curious.

This looks bad for Quin and not great for sig either

Lastly, I want to point to his last post about big talkers again. GMan routinely comes back to this big talkers steering the thread away from baddies. There’s a lot of WIFOM there, but note this progression in his last big post:

“DH's emotions got the better of him and I just don't see that coming from a baddie DH who wasn't cornered yet.”
>
“I said a while back that there's got to be a baddie among the big talkers or else this game would harmonize. That leaves Sloonei and Golden…one of them has to be bad or this game is whack.”
>
“Golden got a little emotional right back at DH Night 2”
>
“Weeding out Scotty and DH/S~V~S, and that pushes both Sloonei and Golden into the poe for Thunderdome.”

So DH gets a pass because he was over emotional, but when Golden got emotional, it’s just another Tuesday? Huh.

His final POE, expanded from just DF and Wilgy is:

POE:
-DF
-DrWilgy
-Golden the Coward
-Michelle
-Quin
-Sloonei


The constant insistence of the top talkers being suspect in Golden and Sloonei makes me feel like he’s sidestepping. It’s even weirder to continually lump DH/SVS in and out of that category, but exclude them from the POE.
I HIGHLY doubt GMan put all his teammates in his 6 person POE. Which makes me feel like at least one of sig/SVS are bad.



From my GMan observations:
-Sloonei, Golden, NAA/Vivax2.0 look great, Elo
-Michelle looks fine
-SVS/DH and sig are firmly compatible, and at least one of them is most likely bad
-2 of: DF, Quin and/or Wilgy are probably bad.

Just from these interactions alone, I could see a legit individual pairing of DF/Quin/Wilgy/DH or mix and match Quin/Wilgy with sig/SVS without yet looking into these player’s interactive ISOs with each other.

[Scotty]

[VOTE: Quin] aubergine

[Scotty]

Vote count currently 30 hours left in day 5

Spoiler: show

DFaraday
0
No votes
Voters: None
DrWilgy
0
No votes
Voters: None
Elohcin
0
No votes
Voters: None
Golden
2
18%
Voters: Quin, Matahari
Michelle
1
9%
Voters: S~V~S
Quin
2
18%
Voters: Golden, Scotty
Scotty
0
No votes
Voters: None
sig
0
No votes
Voters: None
Sloonei
0
No votes
Voters: None
S~V~S
0
No votes
Voters: None
Vivax
0
No votes
Voters: None

[Scotty]

Golden and Sloonei

This is a pairing of players that I think go hand in hand. Not because I think they’re on the same team but because I don’t think they’re w/w.

Golden is someone that has expressed keen interest in pinning down Sloonei’s role. Golden has like 6 people’s roles “in mind” which is just dandy for him. I also have roles in mind for people, but the weird part to me is that when pressed on it, Golden zips up his mouth and becomes slightly indignant talking about it, suggesting mafia will get whiffs of his grand role matching and use it against the town. He compounds this attitude with unabashedly- and unprompted- also inserting throughout the game “I have a role in mind for {x} player” which is like that acquaintance on Facebook that casually makes their status “I can’t believe this happened to me today!” allowing concerned comments to pile up for a few days, and never resolving it. What happened to you, Chelsea?! WHY WOULD YOU DO THIS TO MY PSYCHE.

I’m glad that Golden has roles in mind for people, and that may very well help his own game. But at some point as we start whittling down players, communitizing role guesses becomes less about “not giving mafia the benefit of information” and more about “helping the town as a whole identify and make better choices so we don’t lose the game.”

There’s a certain gate keeping of “the old ways” that I willingly want to respect, but I’m also not one to throw away the key to unlocking the game because “that’s not the way we do things here”. In this game, confidence in reads and how you flaunt that confidence dictates a lot of reads for other people.

All of this leads to my hesitance and blatant confusion when it comes to my read of Sloonei. It’s Golden and Golden specifically that has kept me from hard townreading Sloonei, and it’s because of his vague confidence that Sloonei isn’t the one that switched the first elimination to Vivax1.0. I can’t pry out what Golden really thinks Sloonei is, and we can’t info dump in this game (That’s fine, wouldn’t ask it if anyone had info) but it could be heavily inferred that Sloonei and Quin were masons. It made sense with the blatant shielding going on early. But Sloonei- after a couple days of hard town reading Quin- walked back his Townread to a more questionable read of him on day 3. This seemed to fracture Golden’s crystal ball for a second, but it seemed in-thread that it was a brief stay of confusion before he just shrugged it off and maybe conf biased himself that it was just a blip and everything is still fine and dandy. This confused the shit out of me. Because that didn’t seem like an attitude of a player with a Mason in Quin. So if he isn’t a Mason, and isn’t the elim switcher…I got nothing to explain Sloonei’s behavior this game.

On Night 2, Sloonei showed some flashes of old civ Sloonei, with deep dives into ISOs and interactions with DrWilgy and then a pretty thorough casing on GMan, which was welcomed! But before that? Wet towel. Even now, after bea’s untimely demise, his comment of “I wish this person rezzed can just take my place”. I don’t get it. It’s like he has not spark or drive this game. It’s really bugging me out.

But here’s what I think:

I think Sloonei is town. And that is because I think Golden is intentionally or unintentionally misleading or at least has convinced himself that the puzzle piece that he holds still fits, even though he’s trying to trade 3 sheep for 2 wood in a game of Monopoly.

[Scotty]

Wilgy
The curious case of Doctor Wilgy. I’ll bet he’s not even accredited by the ADA. Let me take you on a journey.

DrWilgy deserves scrutiny, and it would be a mistake to clear him for making the definitive vote for one-foot-in-the-grave GMan. In the bigger picture, GMan was mumbling in mock surrender for a majority of D3. Additionally, his posting style of licks and smells, while reminiscent of days of Wilgy past, is a very easy guise to hide behind. By his own admission, he is ready to coast to the final X, which would be a mistake. We have no known civ killing abilities to solve these questionable alignment players.

But back to the vote on GMan: the problem is, we don’t have all the information.
If the information is that Sloonei is bad…suddenly Wilgy’s magnanimous vote for GMan doesn’t look so good, does it?

Wilgy’s actions and votes thus far have been, in summary:
D1: Licks some people, tastes some people, votes Golden? I see no indication of when he voted Golden or even why, though it looks like he did so after GMan votes Golden because it tasted “fun” even tho he had posted separate suspicions during the day of:
-Michelle (“most likely a wolf”)
-Elo, who was a prominent wagon during the time that Wilgy was active (“tastes strange…of pasta water”)

D2: Wilgy pops in to attempt to make a tie vote between DH/Quin/LoRab for the lols. I think at the time Quin started amassing votes He enlists Golden to switch his vote to DH, and Golden obliges for a bit. Talks about “maybe saving LoRab” before the end. The big hypocrisy with Wilgy that just doesn’t make sense is his desire to
a) make a “super sexy 3-way tie” because it’s fun
b) criticize GMan for wanting to leave the elimination up to the moderator, because it “would be never in our favor”. I’m not even sure what that means, but the logical dichotomy of those 2 statements just makes me shake my head.

He was obviously active around End of day, and even tho he was still in silly Wilgy gimmick mode, he definitely was invested. Voted Quin at some point in the last 2 minutes, and we can assume Quin probably wasn’t in terrible danger of going over because with 2 minutes left, Sloonei made a plea to Vivax and Llama (who were probably the only voters there, maybe with JJJ, the NPC) to switch to DH because the “Quin wagon is dead”. Wilgy asks DH to vote Quin, but DH declines for whatever reason. In response to Sloonei’s plea, llama stays put on Quin and Wilgy decides to counter Sloonei by also voting there. Final vote- LoRab 6, Quin 4, DH 4. Close call, but the vote did’nt go over for Quin, did it? For someone active up until the final minute, he had this to say in the night:
“Y'all are mistaken if your conclusion has lead you to believe I have any stake in this game.”
Hmmm

D3: Early, after Sloonei makes a sizable case on GMan, he agrees and says GMan is a good vote. Votes there. Doesn’t add much at all to the discussion. Not a terrible look for Wilgy.

D4: Wilgy played with his food a lot D4. In that I mean I watched as a stagnant thread with a soon-to-be-dead bea got a little infusion from Wilgy, who attempted to rally the troops onto Vivax2.0 or even Quin as a comparable counter wagon.
He makes one post in particular where he apparently is reading back to EoD D1 and is confused as to how the Vivax1.0 wagon exploded, says it “tastes funny” and then does absolutely nothing with that conclusion.


There are notes of citrus and calming elderberries in how Wilgy is placing reads on people. What I mean is…he isn’t saying much concrete while being very descriptive. It does remind me a lot of GMan’s reads- hollow, perhaps, and not usually followed up on. I think Wilgy, if bad, has played a smart game.
I think it not as likely for him to be paired with Quin. He’s left his vote on him in unnecessarily close situations and even lightly pushed for Quin’s dismissal for several days. It’s a pretty blatant bus that I don’t think Wilgy needs to do. Possible, yes, but too brazen in my opinion.

[S~V~S]

G Man was buddying me, guaranteed. Read my interactions with him, not just his with me. This is why I don't love ISO's, they're half of a picture.

I'm still slogging along in my real time thread read which I should have done days ago.

I think sig looks OK, I have no strong reads on him either way. I'll look while I'm reading. His posts have overall improved since I last saw him, and this could be coloring my opinion. But so far nothing that hooked me. I play from "looking for bad behavior" rather than trying to clear civ behavior. I am seeing nothing bad, but I will try looking from the other perspective.

Linki, I'm getting there re Sloonei. And I think Wilgy is civ.

[S~V~S]

That being said, I actually think sig coming out and throwing caution to the wind with regards to his spelling and grammar is townie, if not reckless. Could be WIFOM, but that role is incredibly restrictive to my *vibe* which comes with autocorrect errors and incomplete sentences. So I get it.

I will also state for the record that I don't buy the suspicion on Sig. Feels too easy.

Sig is known miselimination fodder.

It is known, Khaleesi.

Though I’m seeing more support for sig as town than suspicion at this current juncture..

Bit too much whiteknighting on sig from Scottys part for my taste. I don't like that the initial argument became a secondary one in his reply to Llama. Scotty may be a bit too eager to parade the start of day role shenannies around that he based his sig townread on.

What does "white Knighting" mean? Is it defending?

[Vivax]

White knighting is taking pressure off players you don‘t have a clear read on.