Anniversary Game 2 - Moozik [MAFIA WIN]

[ColinIsCool]

IBA went after Schia so hard yesterday that you would have thought they were Colin

Am I really about to 100% reverse my read in the span of 15 minutes?

[Schiavetto]

It's also like, not at all difficult for w!Iawy to see "oh hey here are two weird posts from Schia that pretty obviously point toward some kind of night actions, let me just jump on that and put a damper on any claimed mech from their slot" - maf tracker is pretty easy to BS, and Creature was pretty eager to use the roleclaim as a crutch D1, talking about self-resolving, etc. etc. before Guillotine started running what I can assume was damage control

I can compromise in a wagon of any of these people

Petit, Manny, Valentine, Chelsea and Deezee (Deezee being my weakest scum read).

Creature has not moved my needle significantly to either side, i find it weird that he soft a self confirmable role with only the pressure of 4 people but i dont have the balls to kill someone who might be an inno child or desperado so i will not go there today.
If he is chopped today and flips scum the four people that were voting him at the time he hurry-softed his role look good, because they contributed to the pressure that lead to that claim which in most cases i associate with scum freaking the hell out when seen their wagon is getting stagnant and the wagon is held steady by people's pressure he considers the strongest.

If he gets chopped today and flips scum i get no credit though.

can see like, Dopp!Iawy -> hit Creature -> become maf, hellbus, and become Schia's spiritual doppelganger

[ColinIsCool]

IBA went after Schia so hard yesterday that you would have thought they were Colin

Am I really about to 100% reverse my read in the span of 15 minutes?

like does a scum who activated hammer voting then try to bus their last teammate who has a real shot at dying? really?

[ColinIsCool]

I did a quick read of Guillo’s ISO and they didn’t interact at all with the confirmed wolves we have, but they did with Chelsea, which is a good point in her favor imo

Gulio is just mad I can god read him tbh. Sucks to suck but hey.

Who do you think it is between IAWY and Schia?

I guess IAWY????? But I need to reread the case on them now because I am not confident in that

[ColinIsCool]

Fuck it, Schia, you and me just became best friends.

[ColinIsCool]

I have also just now learned that I was not, in fact, roleblocked, so the plot thickens.

[ColinIsCool]

[VOTE: unvote] aubergine

[Schiavetto]

Fuck it, Schia, you and me just became best friends.

[Inawordyes]

Anyway I thought Iawy made your claim look bogus because you just copied their targets and your role sounds completely made up but but idk if Iawy doesn’t feel that way I have to reevaluate

To me, this is basically F3+ Deluxe. We have 3 in the PoE, including myself, so it's effectively a F3 situation for me, we just have 2 conftown and a 3P as spectators to us solving our own crap

So it's not that I do or don't believe Schia's claim, it's that it's a 50/50 so I reevaluate both of them regardless of how strongly I think either are or aren't town

[ColinIsCool]

Anyway I thought Iawy made your claim look bogus because you just copied their targets and your role sounds completely made up but but idk if Iawy doesn’t feel that way I have to reevaluate

To me, this is basically F3+ Deluxe. We have 3 in the PoE, including myself, so it's effectively a F3 situation for me, we just have 2 conftown and a 3P as spectators to us solving our own crap

So it's not that I do or don't believe Schia's claim, it's that it's a 50/50 so I reevaluate both of them regardless of how strongly I think either are or aren't town

Who are your conftown?

[Inawordyes]

i guess what's like, actually annoying with Iawy atm is that I think the way they've played is consistent with Doppelganger laying low D1, hitting maf, then coming in hard next phase with the hellbus to maintain natural distance from having been unaligned for the first day

i also think it accounts for a lot of the flinching and hissy fits over people arguing for w!Iawy when that hasn't actually happened yet

Have you ever seen me play a D1 before?

The answer is yes, so taking my standard, easily-obversable meta that occurs across all games I've played - and to which I pointed out and commented on several times D1 as it was - and turning it into a negative for me just because there's a doppelganger in this game is grossly mischaracterizing my play just to have something to scumread me for

[Schiavetto]

gRoSsLy MiScHaRaCtErIzInG mY pLaY

[Schiavetto]

Anyway!

Anyway I thought Iawy made your claim look bogus because you just copied their targets and your role sounds completely made up but but idk if Iawy doesn’t feel that way I have to reevaluate

To me, this is basically F3+ Deluxe. We have 3 in the PoE, including myself, so it's effectively a F3 situation for me, we just have 2 conftown and a 3P as spectators to us solving our own crap

So it's not that I do or don't believe Schia's claim, it's that it's a 50/50 so I reevaluate both of them regardless of how strongly I think either are or aren't town

Who are your conftown?

this question goes hard

[Inawordyes]

Anyway I thought Iawy made your claim look bogus because you just copied their targets and your role sounds completely made up but but idk if Iawy doesn’t feel that way I have to reevaluate

To me, this is basically F3+ Deluxe. We have 3 in the PoE, including myself, so it's effectively a F3 situation for me, we just have 2 conftown and a 3P as spectators to us solving our own crap

So it's not that I do or don't believe Schia's claim, it's that it's a 50/50 so I reevaluate both of them regardless of how strongly I think either are or aren't town

Who are your conftown?

Val and Chel, the two mechanically-confirmed townies, and then yourself who's a known 3P. The PoE of non-mechcleared players was 6 yesterday, and half the PoE died between yesterday's chop and the NKs, which leaves 3 in the PoE and exactly 1 mafia between them

[Inawordyes]

gRoSsLy MiScHaRaCtErIzInG mY pLaY

Now who's having a hissy fit

[ColinIsCool]

Sorry, when did Chelsea get mech cleared?

[Schiavetto]

gRoSsLy MiScHaRaCtErIzInG mY pLaY

Now who's having a hissy fit

no, i'm laughing

[Schiavetto]

You can't believe that Val+Chels are mech clear & that there's 1 maf in me or Quas.

My being town is incompatible with Quas being maf.

[Schiavetto]

Culinary Delights Redux let's fucking go

[Inawordyes]

You can't believe that Val+Chels are mech clear & that there's 1 maf in me or Quas.

My being town is incompatible with Quas being maf.

Good point

[VOTE: Schia] aubergine

[Valentine]

today was a mess and a half an dmy brain is frazzled i don't think there's room for chelsea to be not mech-clear here from what i understood but i think that's something to not dwell on right now i do not have the brain power

admitting i have confbias but schia's tone here is so wildly different than another game we played, understand circumstances change, etc, etc, will read back over isos more tmrw wrt quas more but i still lean towards voting schia if whatever weird things with the 3p are reconciled

[Inawordyes]

IBA being the one that alerted Mung to the fact that his name was being actively thrown out for him to come in and make a wolfy-pop in defense makes perfect sense in hindsight, he was one of the few people actively in-thread during that discussion

[LordQuas]

hi i didnt kill IBA i haven't had anything else except my claimed previous stuff

boosted rask xd

will be on more later just checkin in to say this

[LordQuas]

i think chelsea is pretty likely town and the n1 shot is a good look (lmao if its the singular SK shot wcyd if so)

came into today leaning schia (would never have shot IBA in the night and her every time) for reasons i mostly listed yesterday

[LordQuas]

i think chelsea is pretty likely town and the n1 shot is a good look (lmao if its the singular SK shot wcyd if so)

came into today leaning schia (would never have shot IBA in the night and her every time) for reasons i mostly listed yesterday

open to rethinking though if theres a real case not just weh-ing

[Schiavetto]

today was a mess and a half an dmy brain is frazzled i don't think there's room for chelsea to be not mech-clear here from what i understood but i think that's something to not dwell on right now i do not have the brain power

admitting i have confbias but schia's tone here is so wildly different than another game we played, understand circumstances change, etc, etc, will read back over isos more tmrw wrt quas more but i still lean towards voting schia if whatever weird things with the 3p are reconciled

"oh my gosh, his tone is different"

[Schiavetto]

i think chelsea is pretty likely town and the n1 shot is a good look (lmao if its the singular SK shot wcyd if so)

came into today leaning schia (would never have shot IBA in the night and her every time) for reasons i mostly listed yesterday

open to rethinking though if theres a real case not just weh-ing

we should be talking everything through anyway - or should've been at least

[Schiavetto]

like one of the biggest things yesterday is how many mechanical kinks were up in the air that folks just refused to get into, and how little folks were willing to get into why their POEs looked the way they did. You had people just falling back into consensus and trying to talk around why folks were or weren't clear without taking level steps to resolve certain major question marks - like val said, that whole backhalf of the phase just looked like maf & 3p walking on eggshells, trying to make things go one way or the other without outing themselves

[Schiavetto]

Chels was willing to dig into it, which I think is another big point in her favor
Snow actively avoided it, got caught lacking
When I asked Val for thoughts on the insp. triangle between me/iawy/snow, she landed back on the same Schia/Quas coinflip Snow had been sponging (although at that point we hadn't had a flip to account for failed town investigative power, so it's more reasonable position to have taken yday) after going off about how Iawy was by all appearances unpartnered

which is where I'd been leaning for most of the game - but when i spoke up about that Iawy jumped in on a hair trigger to slash away at the same wolf!Iawy argument that nobody was actually making yet

literally who is trying to pair Iawy with Guillo and Mung, holy

I don't post in the thread for just a couple hours and we're

again

back on the "let's paranoidly-tinfoil Iawy as deepwolf mafia who's actively hellbussing his allies"

because that makes infinitely more sense than my attitude and actions in this game. Don't take my word for it, look at my actual actions and tell me if you think mafia plays like this. I'll gladly throw out my recent scum games on MU and you can tell me if I specifically play like this as mafia

Now, anticipating the inevitable response, anybody who continues to tinfoil me today inside the PoE is doing their job of solving / has to because they're mafia and need to bury me. Anybody who does it outside the PoE is just not actually reading me

no concern over why his track failed, no concern over what scumthreat we're actually dealing that or trying to solve into the kink - just some flare-ups over him not being aligned with Guill & Mung, as if that were the only thing at issue. I spent the next posts viewtopic.php?t=2442&start=4300#p975560 working to steer things back, for Petit the Goat to be the only person to meet me there (easily in a top 10 anime enemies to lovers arc)

[Schiavetto]

Meanwhile, all IBA can offer on the matter is "schia's claim sus!" (it's important that you hear this in the voice of Angelica Pickles)

which gives me time to say

lol

the schia claim wrt snow coming after the first one is ... something

crumbed before claim
viewtopic.php?p=972541#p972541
viewtopic.php?p=972132#p972132
viewtopic.php?p=972134#p972134

which isn't clearing (at all lol), but the takeaway here should be that between the three of us, something's going unaccounted for.... not 'schia posted second though !_!'

again

Has Iawy claimed yet? Getting bored

yay, someone finally asked, it only took several hours and several players posting for someone to question my role

no, I haven't yet

Well don't be shy

yeeeeeeeeee

Odd-Night tracker, I tracked Quas N1 and he visited nobody (hence why I asked him early D3 if he acted on N1/N2, verifies the Motivator/"I have a day role" claim and even if he does turn out to be mafia he at least wasn't the one who carried the NK that night)

Last night I tried to track Snow, because she seemed to me to be the most likely to carry the NK if she was mafia of everybody in the PoE, and my action failed. So I'm assuming that I either got roleblocked or Snow has an untrackable modifier of some sort on her that she hasn't disclosed

that my crumbing preceded Iawy's claim.

if you have doubts around the circumstances of either claim, they should extend beyond "lol obv fakeclaim"

and you know how i love that topic!

[Chelsea]

While the game seems rather simple on paper for me in a everyone is clear but 2 people let's wrap up the game sort of way, I'd rather just get this done today. Idk why people still put Quas on the PoE list when Schia is out here claiming they're a TA with an inno on Quas.

My main problem with Schia is that they came into the thread and ticked nearly every classic mafia box right away so fast it almost seems too bad to be a wolf because they just seemed they panic'd. But ignoring that it felt like instead of trying to talk over every option they threw every option at the wall to see what would stick. There's a very big difference between wanting to go over why everyone is clear and debate it and slowly debating each read to see if they're pushable and I'm not getting the former here.

With IAWY, they started to pick up the game at a very interesting time that would make sense if you were a wolf thinking you needed to pick up the slack. I still think their push on me was one of the worst parts of their game and it felt entirely opportunistic, and I don't see an Odd-night tracker really fitting a villager role with all these invest powers we have going on.

Kinda wanna talk to Val/Quas la la la

[Chelsea]

Schia also dumbtelling the fact I'm meta clear felt like something a villager would do over a wolf and struck me as a villagery thing but I'd need to go back and see if they ever acknowledged it to begin with.

[Chelsea]

meta mech clear same thing it's 8am B)

Right now I lean on voting Schia but if we just based things on this dayphase I'd vote IAWY (helpful ik)

[LordQuas]

While the game seems rather simple on paper for me in a everyone is clear but 2 people let's wrap up the game sort of way, I'd rather just get this done today. Idk why people still put Quas on the PoE list when Schia is out here claiming they're a TA with an inno on Quas.

My main problem with Schia is that they came into the thread and ticked nearly every classic mafia box right away so fast it almost seems too bad to be a wolf because they just seemed they panic'd. But ignoring that it felt like instead of trying to talk over every option they threw every option at the wall to see what would stick. There's a very big difference between wanting to go over why everyone is clear and debate it and slowly debating each read to see if they're pushable and I'm not getting the former here.

With IAWY, they started to pick up the game at a very interesting time that would make sense if you were a wolf thinking you needed to pick up the slack. I still think their push on me was one of the worst parts of their game and it felt entirely opportunistic, and I don't see an Odd-night tracker really fitting a villager role with all these invest powers we have going on.

Kinda wanna talk to Val/Quas la la la

@Chelsea as far as conflicting investigative claims go IAWY's just looks better than schia's because they're literally the same claim and IAWY made it first

[Chelsea]

While the game seems rather simple on paper for me in a everyone is clear but 2 people let's wrap up the game sort of way, I'd rather just get this done today. Idk why people still put Quas on the PoE list when Schia is out here claiming they're a TA with an inno on Quas.

My main problem with Schia is that they came into the thread and ticked nearly every classic mafia box right away so fast it almost seems too bad to be a wolf because they just seemed they panic'd. But ignoring that it felt like instead of trying to talk over every option they threw every option at the wall to see what would stick. There's a very big difference between wanting to go over why everyone is clear and debate it and slowly debating each read to see if they're pushable and I'm not getting the former here.

With IAWY, they started to pick up the game at a very interesting time that would make sense if you were a wolf thinking you needed to pick up the slack. I still think their push on me was one of the worst parts of their game and it felt entirely opportunistic, and I don't see an Odd-night tracker really fitting a villager role with all these invest powers we have going on.

Kinda wanna talk to Val/Quas la la la

@Chelsea as far as conflicting investigative claims go IAWY's just looks better than schia's because they're literally the same claim and IAWY made it first

Yeah scum don't have any invest flips and the last 2 claims are both invest claims and I'm sitting here like "interesting"

[Schiavetto]

Now I'm just annoyed. Posting from work, don't expect

While the game seems rather simple on paper for me in a everyone is clear but 2 people let's wrap up the game sort of way, I'd rather just get this done today. Idk why people still put Quas on the PoE list when Schia is out here claiming they're a TA with an inno on Quas.

My main problem with Schia is that they came into the thread and ticked nearly every classic mafia box right away so fast it almost seems too bad to be a wolf because they just seemed they panic'd. But ignoring that it felt like instead of trying to talk over every option they threw every option at the wall to see what would stick. There's a very big difference between wanting to go over why everyone is clear and debate it and slowly debating each read to see if they're pushable and I'm not getting the former here.

With IAWY, they started to pick up the game at a very interesting time that would make sense if you were a wolf thinking you needed to pick up the slack. I still think their push on me was one of the worst parts of their game and it felt entirely opportunistic, and I don't see an Odd-night tracker really fitting a villager role with all these invest powers we have going on.

Kinda wanna talk to Val/Quas la la la

@Chelsea as far as conflicting investigative claims go IAWY's just looks better than schia's because they're literally the same claim and IAWY made it first

Here's the thing: they're not identical, which you and the entire free world save Petit (rip) and newly, Colin, seem fully bent on ignoring. This is our timeline:
I post a track named for absence of speech.
I tag Quas.
I post a track named for failure.
I tag Snow.
Iawy fullclaims ON tracker with visits and results matching my tags.
I fullclaim ON traffic analyst with visits and results matching my own tags, and ask into the existence of disruptive power on the roster.
The only others to join me in that course were Chels, petit, and today Colin.

If you are arguing that my claim is made up, then you are not arguing that I copied Iawys claim after he posted his.
You are arguing that I posted two arbitrary tracks, targeted two arbitrary players, after which Iawy fullclaimed, after which I said "Yeah, let me do this too." You're stopping your inquiry at "Schia posted second" without looking at the actual progression of play around either claim, which - however sloppy you want to say I've been this game (and I have - I'm not out here trying for any awards) - is pisspoor town play, and mirrors the same garbage IBA was slinging when trying to push me with Snow yesterday.

Iawy has not played this game like a town tracker with the results he's claimed. He HAS played this game like a wolf trying to win out a counterclaim.

[Valentine]

i’ve arbitrarily decided iawy is probably a wolf because it just feels more like he saw the crumbs or rolecopped or something schia and decided to Steal The Crumbs

maybe in sympathetic rn to the like ... energy i guess schia has even if it’s different than what i previously experienced

like i guess the game makes more sense that way ? idk schia like choosing to willfully copy someone’s results as wolf would be so goofy and they could just like abandon their crumbs

wifom blah blah

[Valentine]

maybe quas is a wolf without a pt
funniest timeline

[Valentine]

idk why i try to play when i’m at work and have 0 braincells but i do try

[Inawordyes]

i’ve arbitrarily decided iawy is probably a wolf because it just feels more like he saw the crumbs or rolecopped or something schia and decided to Steal The Crumbs

maybe in sympathetic rn to the like ... energy i guess schia has even if it’s different than what i previously experienced

like i guess the game makes more sense that way ? idk schia like choosing to willfully copy someone’s results as wolf would be so goofy and they could just like abandon their crumbs

wifom blah blah

If the choice is between solely me and Schia, then that’s one thing. Banking your entire game on me being smart enough to pick up on an invest town breadcrumbing, correctly deduce not only that it is breadcrumbing but that it is explicitly breadcrumbing an invest role - and not only that, but that it is an invest role with an odd-night restriction - and not only THAT, but gambke that the Snow check was “Failure” because of a potential RB situation, not because of seeing them as non-town or seeing them targeting someone who died (as I would in this theory assume Schia is tracker as that’s what I claimed to preemptively CC him)

Well that’s putting too much credit on my shoulders when we’ve already established in both this game and beyond that I am extremely oblivious to ‘obvious’ things and am bad at noticing breadcrumbs. It requires me to be a god-tier wolf who actively bussed all of his teammates either directly or passively, and sussed out 95% of Schia’s laid breadcrumbs and beat him to the punch with a fake claim that contains specific info (being RBed when targeting Snow) that I can’t have obtained without having targeted her myself with an action

Regardless of what you think of us, Quas is mechanically town - either Schia is town and telling the truth, which clears Quas, or Schia mafia, which obviously means that Quas can’t also be mafia with just 1 left. My claim and my alignment don’t matter for the purposes of that since Schia’s directly clears him whereas mine just says he didn’t carry the NK on N1

[Valentine]

stop being logical and confusing me

[Inawordyes]

In all honesty, the breadcrumbs are incredibly convincing and logical and laid out exactly where they should be for a claim coming from town. I don’t see why Schia can’t be town here

But then that poses the problem of “if it’s not Schia, then who is it?” I know it’s not me, Quas is mech cleared because of Schia period no matter what Schia’s alignment is, Colin is known 3P, and Val had her role and alignment revealed to Colin, who (assuming he’s trustworthy enough considering he still is a 3P even if seemingly townsiding) confirmed her as town day vote blocker

Which leaves exactly Chelsea as the only option left by default, and as she’s brought out earlier, she’s not in the clear because all she has to her name is a confirmed 1x BPV that was used up. There’s no guarantee the shot on her came from Mafia and not Snow’s SK kill or a town vig, which means Chelsea is not mech clear. If Schia is town, then FMPOV it can literally only be Chelsea - and vice-versa

It is the same exact scenario for v!Schia and v!Chelsea in their positions, just substitute my name for theirs in each of their world states

[Inawordyes]

stop being logical and confusing me

It is me, Schia or Chelsea. Those are the only options

You think it’s me, that’s wrong but okay

[Inawordyes]

[VOTE: Chelsea] aubergine

Idek anymore, I still kinda harken back to the fact that Guillo voted Chelsea with a milquetoast casing on her after he started getting seriously pushed right before he bailed from the thread, and Chelsea placed a vote on him and never stated it ITT, so there’s no way to know when she jumped on his wagon since it’s out of order in the poll

[Chelsea]

lol

[Chelsea]

I don't think I need to do this but we'll lay it out just for the sake of simplicity. I was shot N1 and it's clear it wasn't from a vig because the town vigs already claimed where they came from.
So that leaves mafia or SK. So, does the SK shoot at me, someone who they've never played with before or met having no clue what they could be
or
is it the mafia who Guilo was a part of, when I was the prime reason to spark a Guilo wagon, bringing it up close to DL and voting on the wagon? Yeah, I didn't state when I voted him, but I'd like to think that's a point in my favor considering if I'm mafia I would be like "Hey guys I'm voting Guilo" and milk that godfather credit, but the idea that I am mafia means you need to live in the worldview where:
I bussed my godfather D1 who had an unsed vig for no reason
I was randomly hit by the SK
A mafia voteblocked me instead of using a roleblock in role madness.
Etc etc. I was mech cleared by dead villagers for a reason and while I don't think this post needed to be made I'll just put it here so you can put those "Oh it's Chelsea" claims to rest.

[Chelsea]

Now I go back to fence-sitting

[Chelsea]

Like, even if you take away the mech clear I've been the most villagery by a long shot nerds sit down. Go back to 1v1ing for my entertainment

[Chelsea]

Excuse me when I start insulting people you're supposed to show up and fight me. I'm lonely.

[Schiavetto]

Doing walrus flips, grabbing dinner, then will be back after host.