Monopoly Mafia [GAME OVER]

[Turnip Head]

I don't think Boogs is bad, though I don't agree with his perspective for today's lynch. He's firmly entrenched in his own suspicions like a good civvie should be.

From my reread, I don't think MM is a railroad. I would like to know his top suspicions outside of juliets... I don't think there's any reason to suspect jules at this point. Although she fooled me in Dr Who

This

Also, I'm not sure who I'm voting for today. Right now, I'm leaning towards FZ. I didn't think too much of disagreeing with her opinion from before on searching for teammates vs. not searching for teammates. But given her reason for voting Epig on Day 1, and her emotional pleas now, I'm not so sure that may have been all for nothing.

My mind isn't totally made up though. I'm still going to see if anything else develops.

So birdie votes for Boogs AND FZ because of their votes for me on Day 1, but out of TH, LC, and me, I'm the only one who "pinged" him?

needs to be addressed.

Epi, was there any discussion in your jail cell BTSC? Or did you have to carve your thoughts on the walls

[S~V~S]

Epignosis I counted that you had the last vote to win that dice at the end. If not you, then who outbid you that I missed after? Also, BWT is notable on your finding of flopping like a trout. Something to keep in mind on discussion for tomorrow.

Discussion for tomorrow? Why not today?

You don't drive the train.

Remember?

I have to agree; why wait? We should discuss all options, not just one. I read BWT fairly well; I also thought the BR analysis was pretty pointless. But usually he plays a fairly blendy bad game, no real substance in his posts, and casual one liner vote posts, not the opposite. He could have switched it up, though.

And yeah, pointing out all the people you think are civvie as opposed to those you think are baddie would be the safest use for the Utilities power. Buddying up rather than leading lynches. I was thinking more in terms of leading lynches and getting cred, but that would also be a way to get suspicion. I am sure I am not the only one looking for a case to be made on someone who landed on a Utility for just that reason.

I would also consider Metalmarsh~ he has seemed more about bidding and the "S" thing than about discussing baddies, but I want to reread the case on him a bit. I should have more time tonight for posting (we are getting my house ready to put on the market, plus we are in the middle of being acquired at work, so AAAARRRGG!! somewhat frazzled) and should be able to do more catch up reading at work .

Epi, when I first replaced back in, you seemed to be gunning for LoRab~ now it is BWT. Do you think they are both bad? Sorry if you have already answered this~ I have not read the thread in depth yet, just specific people and some skimming, reacting to the most recent post, etc.

Also, TH, I know you were suspecting LC pretty hard; what is your opinion of llama? And same, sorry if this is redundant, I saw that you were asked this question, but I have not yet found your answer.

I was kinda trying to make a joke with you about you doing a bad job of it if you suspect me, but I guess that fell flat.

I got it.

Mp I feel like a total dumb cat. I re-ead and realized that Railroads Do NOT start with BTSC like mafia usually do, only the utilities do. So it makes total sense now Llama and LC are railroads and they found the third with the auto search. I was under the impression of normal rules that Baddies start with BtSC. I am on it now buddy and same page. Let's get them.

That seems incredibly lucky that they happened to find each other N1. And then just blatantly buddied up in the thread for no other reason then to flaunt their btsc. This doesn't fit the style of either of them.

It seems like you are changing why LC is bad to fit this. It doesn't make sense to me.

Also, I feel like this is incredibly distracting and that you have a one track mind at this point, which is keeping us away from discussing the rest of the players.

I'm keeping you from discussing? wow lol. Because you know I have a little voodoo doll controlling you and all in my left hand. You can do whatever the hell you want. I am bringing some real discussion on lynching rather than just everyone showing up to vote for the top voter because they are lazy like FZ yesterday. There have been plenty of other name mentioned to lynch Splints besides me suggesting LC. Don't get it twisted, sister.

This is an incredible overreaction.

Do you not think most of the discussion has centered around LC? llama being connected to LC? Who suspects LC and doesn't? Because, I do. I didn't say that has been ALL of the discussion, but a vast majority of the players are falling through the cracks.

Do you honestly not see why baddies would want to keep the conversation centered around a few individuals? With your little voodoo doll comment you are acting like this notion isn't something that comes up regularly in games.

Did I just show up to vote FZ? Here's a suggestion. Why don't we look at those players who did just show up to vote FZ and cared more about the money then lynching baddies, instead of this crusade you have started against players who bought something.

I was trying to entertain the fact that this might be a civvie you, but this defensiveness really isn't doing you any favors.

<3 Thank You~ sometimes my sense of humor is so dry, it doesn't even seem to exist

I reread Boogs last night, and it does seem to me like Boogs just wants to get rid of LC since he fooled him in Python. That makes me unhappy since I get lynched for variations of that myself, but it does not necessarily make Boogs bad. While I disagree with him for the most part at this point, I am nt sure I will be voting for him, and after my last death, I won't be doing any night bidding anytime soon, so am not too concerned about the $200.

I started my reread of Zeek this AM, and have to say, he does not seem like the same guy we had in Dr Who. Helluva lot quieter.

[thellama73]

I was looking at post counts yesterday and I did notice that BWT falls squarely into the "active but not too active" camp where I said baddies were likely to be hiding. It wouldn't surprise me a bit if he were among their number.

[juliets]

Epignosis I counted that you had the last vote to win that dice at the end. If not you, then who outbid you that I missed after? Also, BWT is notable on your finding of flopping like a trout. Something to keep in mind on discussion for tomorrow.

Discussion for tomorrow? Why not today?

You don't drive the train.

Remember?

Epi did not win the third die contest. As I've said before, TH won it AND USED IT on day 2. You can tell because for his turn three dice were thrown.

[Epignosis]

Epi, was there any discussion in your jail cell BTSC? Or did you have to carve your thoughts on the walls

Breaking big rocks into littler rocks would have been more exciting.

Epi, when I first replaced back in, you seemed to be gunning for LoRab~ now it is BWT. Do you think they are both bad? Sorry if you have already answered this~ I have not read the thread in depth yet, just specific people and some skimming, reacting to the most recent post, etc.

Lorab made a move I wouldn't have expected someone bad to make. I still suspect her, but now I have conflicting feelings.

[Marmot]

I don't think Boogs is bad, though I don't agree with his perspective for today's lynch. He's firmly entrenched in his own suspicions like a good civvie should be.

From my reread, I don't think MM is a railroad. I would like to know his top suspicions outside of juliets... I don't think there's any reason to suspect jules at this point. Although she fooled me in Dr Who

This

Also, I'm not sure who I'm voting for today. Right now, I'm leaning towards FZ. I didn't think too much of disagreeing with her opinion from before on searching for teammates vs. not searching for teammates. But given her reason for voting Epig on Day 1, and her emotional pleas now, I'm not so sure that may have been all for nothing.

My mind isn't totally made up though. I'm still going to see if anything else develops.

So birdie votes for Boogs AND FZ because of their votes for me on Day 1, but out of TH, LC, and me, I'm the only one who "pinged" him?

needs to be addressed.

Epi, was there any discussion in your jail cell BTSC? Or did you have to carve your thoughts on the walls

I'll do some rereading today and get back to you before the day ends.

[juliets]

Just in case someone is looking for a quick reply from me note that I have appointments this afternoon so will be out of the thread until this evening. On the subject of Boogs I think he is a misguided civ but not bad. I'm still contemplating the llama/LC baddie theory. I wish there was more hard evidence or what I consider hard evidence. I still have Metalmarsh in my eye but today I feel less likely to vote for him.

[thellama73]

Just in case someone is looking for a quick reply from me note that I have appointments this afternoon so will be out of the thread until this evening. On the subject of Boogs I think he is a misguided civ but not bad. I'm still contemplating the llama/LC baddie theory. I wish there was more hard evidence or what I consider hard evidence. I still have Metalmarsh in my eye but today I feel less likely to vote for him.

How did my Chesterton quote not persuade you?

[HannaK]

Man i chose a bad day to be away from my computer yesterday

This changes my whole perception of the situation that LC could have been a color set, and that in fact he could have auto searched a Railroad if Llama was already found. I agree his behavior was iffy on Day 0 and I agree with MP on the total turnabout on Llama. He did a fake back and forth with Bullzeye in Monty where i didn't bite on it too much and they played me at the end when they were distancing teammates. I would NOT put past LC to do it here again with Llama. Not to mention Llama and him having fake arguments today on "don't ruin my game" and stuff to now them not after each other again and focusing lights on me and MM to get out of the radar.

So you want to lynch them whether they are baddies or LMS? LMS without a kill is better than a civvie, but i would still rather find a baddie. And even if we are to accept that they have BTS now, how do you know it is baddie BTS, not civvie BTS?

Did either LC or Llama land on a utility?

The whole Llama LC theory is interesting and I can definitely see the reasoning. They could as of this moment have a set of 3, it's not unlikely especially in light of the auto-find LC used (but then again that means that they had to have gotten lucky on night 1, what are the odds?). However, the biggest problem I have with the theory, is the conclusion of it. Like SVS says, I don't see how we should care *this much* if there are a set with hotel buying powers and such when you compare it to the money and power the baddies have right now. Sure, they could also be a baddie set, but again: what are the odds.
I'm just a little bit torn right now as I have no very firm suspicions of my own right now as to who are bad, I have been trying to follow the money (as I still think the money people spend can be the biggest clue as to who are bad and have too much money on their hands), but so far nothing super concrete stands out yet.
So maybe in the end it might be better to lynch someone from a suspected set rather than mistakingly lynching a civvie with no set...

[Tangrowth]

So I've done some thinking. I just want to emphasize again I got a bit out of hand yesterday. RL has been a bit rough recently saying goodbye to my fiance again and PhD work is strenuous, and the thread frustrated me, but none of that is an excuse -- only context.

I am honestly not sure whether S~V~S or juliets are bad, but they did ping me in the heat of the moment. Right now I'm taking a step back and I will reconsider them in the future.

Epig made some good observations about BWT. I look forward to his response. Right now the jury is out, but I could see BWT as a potential utility, and he could receive my vote D4 depending on how he responds.

I am not sure about Boogs, but I am leaning misguided civvie. He seems to be falling into the logical fallacy of having blood-colored glasses when it comes to LC.

That being said, and I know LC keeps lumping me in with Boogs and discrediting my case, I feel really strongly in my case. Yes, I know it makes assumptions. What sort of theory does not? But even after thinking about it I REALLY feel that LC and Llama are acting exactly the way they have under the exact circumstances that I explained. It's the best explanation for both of their behavior, still, especially Llama's. I am convinced Llama would not have made such a turnaround if he did not gain BTSC with LC, and his explanations about how LC's behavior "changed" are really vague and do not satisfy me. They read not genuine. I don't have a perfect, or even close, track record of reading Llama. I've considered that. But I still feel really strongly about this.

I know my argument is not brimming with amazing hard evidence and that it inevitably is up to my interpretation of their actions. And I know LC and Llama are trying to fight it with WIFOM. But there's something still seriously off about both of them and I'm convinced I'm still right. I really think LC and Llama are bad, for the exact theory I've outlined. Not for what Boogs has said. I don't know whether they are railroads or LMSers, but if my assumptions are correct, then they're bad news regardless. I realize I don't have evidence that insinuates either one. But I can't shake my gut feeling on the matter, and I wouldn't put it past either of them to do this. I think at least one of them NEEDS to go today.

Consequently, I will be voting LC or Llama still; I don't care which one. But I understand why anyone might be wary of following me. I don't expect others to necessarily either. But I just feel I need to stick with my gut for my vote, even if everyone else thinks I'm off.

[Tangrowth]

Man i chose a bad day to be away from my computer yesterday

This changes my whole perception of the situation that LC could have been a color set, and that in fact he could have auto searched a Railroad if Llama was already found. I agree his behavior was iffy on Day 0 and I agree with MP on the total turnabout on Llama. He did a fake back and forth with Bullzeye in Monty where i didn't bite on it too much and they played me at the end when they were distancing teammates. I would NOT put past LC to do it here again with Llama. Not to mention Llama and him having fake arguments today on "don't ruin my game" and stuff to now them not after each other again and focusing lights on me and MM to get out of the radar.

So you want to lynch them whether they are baddies or LMS? LMS without a kill is better than a civvie, but i would still rather find a baddie. And even if we are to accept that they have BTS now, how do you know it is baddie BTS, not civvie BTS?

Did either LC or Llama land on a utility?

The whole Llama LC theory is interesting and I can definitely see the reasoning. They could as of this moment have a set of 3, it's not unlikely especially in light of the auto-find LC used (but then again that means that they had to have gotten lucky on night 1, what are the odds?). However, the biggest problem I have with the theory, is the conclusion of it. Like SVS says, I don't see how we should care *this much* if there are a set with hotel buying powers and such when you compare it to the money and power the baddies have right now. Sure, they could also be a baddie set, but again: what are the odds.
I'm just a little bit torn right now as I have no very firm suspicions of my own right now as to who are bad, I have been trying to follow the money (as I still think the money people spend can be the biggest clue as to who are bad and have too much money on their hands), but so far nothing super concrete stands out yet.
So maybe in the end it might be better to lynch someone from a suspected set rather than mistakingly lynching a civvie with no set...

I know you're new here, the posting is of high volume, and it's still early in the game. Nonetheless, I just want to confirm: You say you have absolutely no thoughts on anyone being bad right now? Nothing has stuck out to you at all? I know you mentioned thoughts on juliets earlier, but those were completely addressed, you feel?

[Tangrowth]

I definitely hope to hear from some quieter players too and see what they're thinking. I'll be gone until sometime tonight, but I will be back before the vote ends at least.

[Long Con]

Well, that was a big post, MP, that didn't really say anything new, just being excessively wordy about "Llama trusts LC for some reason. I think they would be obvious about it in a WIFOM attempt to trick people into thinking they're not partners."

It doesn't matter how strongly you claim to feel about it, no amount of feelings are going to make it true , or even sensible. Something is off about you this game, between you pushing as hard as you can on a very weak case, and you accusing people and then taking it back... And so many random questions, "hey A, what do you think of B?" "Who are your suspicions, C?" ... It's like, look how pro-Civvie I am being!

[Long Con]

.
So maybe in the end it might be better to lynch someone from a suspected set rather than mistakingly lynching a civvie with no set...

That would not be better. I am not in a set, I am a Civvie with a Civvie BTSC partner. This game is designed so that the Civvies get an advantage through BTSC pairs. Don't look away from baddies and lynch me, please.

[HannaK]

Man i chose a bad day to be away from my computer yesterday

This changes my whole perception of the situation that LC could have been a color set, and that in fact he could have auto searched a Railroad if Llama was already found. I agree his behavior was iffy on Day 0 and I agree with MP on the total turnabout on Llama. He did a fake back and forth with Bullzeye in Monty where i didn't bite on it too much and they played me at the end when they were distancing teammates. I would NOT put past LC to do it here again with Llama. Not to mention Llama and him having fake arguments today on "don't ruin my game" and stuff to now them not after each other again and focusing lights on me and MM to get out of the radar.

So you want to lynch them whether they are baddies or LMS? LMS without a kill is better than a civvie, but i would still rather find a baddie. And even if we are to accept that they have BTS now, how do you know it is baddie BTS, not civvie BTS?

Did either LC or Llama land on a utility?

The whole Llama LC theory is interesting and I can definitely see the reasoning. They could as of this moment have a set of 3, it's not unlikely especially in light of the auto-find LC used (but then again that means that they had to have gotten lucky on night 1, what are the odds?). However, the biggest problem I have with the theory, is the conclusion of it. Like SVS says, I don't see how we should care *this much* if there are a set with hotel buying powers and such when you compare it to the money and power the baddies have right now. Sure, they could also be a baddie set, but again: what are the odds.
I'm just a little bit torn right now as I have no very firm suspicions of my own right now as to who are bad, I have been trying to follow the money (as I still think the money people spend can be the biggest clue as to who are bad and have too much money on their hands), but so far nothing super concrete stands out yet.
So maybe in the end it might be better to lynch someone from a suspected set rather than mistakingly lynching a civvie with no set...

I know you're new here, the posting is of high volume, and it's still early in the game. Nonetheless, I just want to confirm: You say you have absolutely no thoughts on anyone being bad right now? Nothing has stuck out to you at all? I know you mentioned thoughts on juliets earlier, but those were completely addressed, you feel?

So far I find it quite hard, since I normally often base my suspicions partly on gamestyles of players and since I an new here it's hard to read people's posts. So far juliets posts and defences seem genuine to me and I also don't think Boogs is bad. The case against BWT is interesting as well, I am gonna re-read some of that tonight if I find the time

.
So maybe in the end it might be better to lynch someone from a suspected set rather than mistakingly lynching a civvie with no set...

That would not be better. I am not in a set, I am a Civvie with a Civvie BTSC partner. This game is designed so that the Civvies get an advantage through BTSC pairs. Don't look away from baddies and lynch me, please.

I know that's what you are claiming yes, that's why I say 'suspected set' and I fully see the benefit of obtaining a BTSC partner, the thing is though, I am inclined to believe you already found all of your teammates, as I have read llama's defence but don't neccessarily find it convincing.

[Turnip Head]

Also, TH, I know you were suspecting LC pretty hard; what is your opinion of llama? And same, sorry if this is redundant, I saw that you were asked this question, but I have not yet found your answer.

I'm riding the fence pretty hard on Llama. My suspiciometer oscillates frequently between thinking he's making baddie moves and civvie ones. But overall the pings are mild; he hasn't done anything over the top to make me feel strongly about him.

I have my eye on him because his suspicions don't seem as organic as they usually are when Llama's a civvie. You're usually able to glimpse into his thought process, see who he's suspecting and why. This game, I feel like he's holding back a lot of his thoughts, or perhaps his thoughts aren't fully formed because he's a baddie. I'm far from trusting him but don't have much reason to vote for him.

[Turnip Head]

I think Epi's case on BWT was pretty compelling, and I hope we hear from the birdie soon.

[thellama73]

Okay, I could be okay with a BWT lynch today. Here's why.

Alright. Here's my full opinion on the two hot-button issues so far.

1) In terms of searching for people, I am going to try and search for my teammates every night. I know most of us play for fun (I would hope all of us do), but we also play to win the game. Having a team of people whom I know can help me, and help add to potential collected money in terms of hotels, sounds a heck of a lot more appealing than a vanilla civ with no powers and throwing darts in the dark. The utilities have already learned the roles of 3 players so far, and the railroads learn who each others is once they find each other. Plus having a NK they get to share. So to me, the best long-term strategy is to search for teammates.

2) I will consider bidding on properties, if one comes up that I feel is worth owning. The way I look at it, I'd rather get rid of the baddies first who either have BTSC already (Utilities) or could gain it (Railroads), and have a NK to use, over people who are vanilla civs and do not have a NK. And, as llama said, it's a huge opportunity cost we are throwing away by going after people who decide to bid often or heavily on properties. So for now, I'm more concerned about trying to find and kill baddies.

Linki @llama: I agree. There's a big difference between a mafia team and a LMS team in my opinion.

W00t! Great job on getting a baddie on Day 1. That's awesome!

$180 on Short Line

So at first he is a bit ambivalent about bidding on properties. "maybe I will, IF"

Then he says "don't lynch people who bid on properties" (which I broadly agree with, but bear with me.)

Then he follows up a congratulations (that reads just a little bit fakey-fake to me) with a bid on Short Line.

Why would anyone who's not a railroad want a railroad? To prevent the other railroads from getting it? Maybe. But I don't think someone as ambivalent about property buying as BWT would play that way.

[Turnip Head]

So Llama you think BWT's a railroad?

[thellama73]

So Llama you think BWT's a railroad?

Increasingly so. It's weird to me that I thought "I bet the railroads are someone with a middling post count and moderate participation" then looked at the player list, and his name jumped out at me, even before Epig said anything. The he made his case and I looked into it further and found that the pieces were there. This is what Jung called Synchronicity.

Why would he had bid ($180 is not a small amount of money for what we start out with) on a railroad?

[thellama73]

Also, TH. I like you.

[Marmot]

Sorry, I won't have the free time to properly participate today that I thought I would.

I'm switching my vote to BWT because Epi's track record says he's right, and his case looks good.

[thellama73]

Sorry, I won't have the free time to properly participate today that I thought I would.

I'm switching my vote to BWT because Epi's track record says he's right, and his case looks good.

I think I'll join you.

[zeek]

I started my reread of Zeek this AM, and have to say, he does not seem like the same guy we had in Dr Who. Helluva lot quieter.

This is not-my-first-game-since-coming-out-of-retirement-Zeek. I'm sorry I'm not more like MP this game, but thats not my usual style anyway.

Speaking of MP, he's passionate every game I've played with him, so I'm not really seeing how he's different this game. He often hammers home his theories.

So, on my radar at the moment are BWT, LC, llama and Boogs.

I feel LC has acquitted himself well since the theories about him and llama have been put out there and I'm pretty happy not voting for him at the moment. He's seemed pretty genuine to me. llama is a different story. Still unsure about him but maybe not enough to vote there right now. I find the "you know me better than that" thing suspect though. I don't know him, why even say it?

BWT has a fair few empty posts and as pointed out he did say he'd only bid on property he felt was worth having. There's little reason to want the property he did bid for unless you're railroad. He also far outbid me for win an auction, when there was no need to go that high. I believe he has a bit of spare cash, makes me wonder how he got it.

Boogs has been acting suspicious the way he advocates lynching people with powers or has BTSC. He says the crux of his case is he thinks LC and llama are mafia but I'm not sure I believe that anymore. He may be trying to eliminate any strength developing within the civs. We need BTSC atm, so theres more trust. That can be a problem for endgame, once the Mafia are gone.

So yeah, may go BWT or Boogs today. My eye is still on llama.

[Long Con]

I know you know I don't mean to kill civs. That I mean to kill mafia. My whole lame plan revolved around that crux. But you keep denying it.

Keys, you never responded to my last attempt to deal with this post... I cut out a clip that I think illustrates the core of your issue with me.

You say your plan is supposed to kill Mafia, and is not supposed to kill Civs. The reason I would deny such a claim is that I'm a Civ, and you are trying to lynch me because I won the Autofind prize and used it to find a partner. You say you want to kill Mafia, but there's no case and no reason to think that I'm Mafia. So, although I do read English quite well, I do not understand the meaning of the words I'm reading.

You know that I know you say you don't want to kill Civs. Why don't you put your vote where your mouth is and vote someone you actually think is Mafia, instead of voting me for finding a Civ BTSC partner.

[thellama73]

I don't know him, why even say it?

Why do people keep saying "why even say it?"

There's this new thing called communication.

[zeek]

I don't know him, why even say it?

Why do people keep saying "why even say it?"

There's this new thing called communication.

Good point, well made.

[zeek]

Bed time for me. I'm going to vote Boogs.

While I initially thought he may have been onto something with LC and llama, I think LC has been genuine in his responses. The more I consider the way Boogs has gone about it, the more I think he's latched onto it to try to keep the civs weak.

[thellama73]

Bed time for me. I'm going to vote Boogs.

While I initially thought he may have been onto something with LC and llama, I think LC has been genuine in his responses. The more I consider the way Boogs has gone about it, the more I think he's latched onto it to try to keep the civs weak.

I frequently lynch boogs when he is a civ because his impassioned arguments that make no sense strike me as baddie. I'm starting to think that's just the way he is.

[HannaK]

Okay I've been trying to wait around for BWT to come around and answer to the case that's been made but I gotta leave now and so far that case looks the most convincing to me, especially because if (and that already is an if) Long Con is in a set with Llama and another person, they dont have to be a mafia team and especially considering how strong the baddies are right now in terms of money and knowledge, I think lynching (potential) baddies is a priority to lynching potential indysets so I am gonna go ahead and vote for BWT.

[Spacedaisy]

I give up. I don't have time to catch up. I honestly don't even know the mechanics of this game. I'm going to roll with a BWT vote.

[birdwithteeth11]

So I'm gone for 24 hours, Epig throws a case together on me, and now it looks like I'm about to be lynched?

I would defend myself, but I don't have the time right now. I'm way behind on something for work with training, and I need to spend most of tonight working on it. Unfortunately, all I can do is vote LC and hope I somehow survive (which doesn't look good for me at this point). I do find it funny that a lot of you think I've been participating quite a bit. I chalk this game up there with most of the ones where I'm barely participating due to lack of time to get involved.

But oh well. I guess it is what it is. All I have time for it to ask for one more day, and to give me a chance to answer for my actions once I have the time to do so.

[S~V~S]

For me, LC has a certain "feel" when he's bad, he just feels phony. He feels like a salesman, like he's giving you a hearty handshake, slightly TOO hearty (I don't think I have ever articulated this before). He's a little edgier, slightly snarkier, more real when he's good. He feels on the level to me at this point.

Boogs, I think, has an agenda. It is an agenda I have seen from lots of people myself, the "Oh My God, You Screwed me SO BAD In the Last Game, I Can Never Trust You Again". He wants LC to be bad, and that's that. If anything I think that makes him more likely to be civvie rather than less.

At this pint, I am looking at MM, BWT & Zeek. I might table Zeek for now as I think this is gonna be tight and less spread is better than more, IMO.

BWT is DOING & saying all kinds of baddie things. But he is not acting like bad BWT all that much. Llama is calling him blendy, but bad BWT is blendy like Faraday blendy. BUT he could have switched it up. I hope he comes back. The case is good but my gut is waffling.

MM has said almost nothing that can be pinned down. He is agreeable, and seems to vote for people based totally on reasons other than whether or not they are bad.

Zeek has struck me as playing a very smooth, non spotlight style game. He is also not saying much of substance. I poked him twice, and his reaction was the same both times.

I started my reread of Zeek this AM, and have to say, he does not seem like the same guy we had in Dr Who. Helluva lot quieter.

This is not-my-first-game-since-coming-out-of-retirement-Zeek. I'm sorry I'm not more like MP this game, but thats not my usual style anyway.

Speaking of MP, he's passionate every game I've played with him, so I'm not really seeing how he's different this game. He often hammers home his theories.

So, on my radar at the moment are BWT, LC, llama and Boogs.

I feel LC has acquitted himself well since the theories about him and llama have been put out there and I'm pretty happy not voting for him at the moment. He's seemed pretty genuine to me. llama is a different story. Still unsure about him but maybe not enough to vote there right now. I find the "you know me better than that" thing suspect though. I don't know him, why even say it?

BWT has a fair few empty posts and as pointed out he did say he'd only bid on property he felt was worth having. There's little reason to want the property he did bid for unless you're railroad. He also far outbid me for win an auction, when there was no need to go that high. I believe he has a bit of spare cash, makes me wonder how he got it.

Boogs has been acting suspicious the way he advocates lynching people with powers or has BTSC. He says the crux of his case is he thinks LC and llama are mafia but I'm not sure I believe that anymore. He may be trying to eliminate any strength developing within the civs. We need BTSC atm, so theres more trust. That can be a problem for endgame, once the Mafia are gone.

So yeah, may go BWT or Boogs today. My eye is still on llama.

That whole, "Speaking of MP..." feels like such a subject change. "Yeah I'm not bad, now lets move along, nothing to see here". This is totally gut and feels, but this was pretty much the same:

Aren't you dead, S~V~S?

Disappointed to see me back?

Of course not

I haven't played much with llama really, four cycles in Zelda but I was quite busy and couldn't follow the game fully. Even less with Boogs, she died before I did in that game. I do think the kitty thing is easy to hide behind though. Is this something she does when she's bad?

I'm interested in hearing from keys, as he's been very quiet after the searching debate and not said much about suspicions.

"Of course not

Now lets talk about something else. " is how that reads to me. But like I said, I will revisit this tomorrow.

Linki, not sure how I feel about that. But it did lead me to conclude that I feel more strongly about Metalmarsh~

[juliets]

Epi's thoughts on BWT are interesting and I'm about to read him now to see what I think.

Also, I was looking at the bidding and noticed llama bid for a double search (that's search two people to find your partner). Now if he and LC were a team and had already found their third member with LC's autofind, why would he be bidding on a double search? I just thought that was odd in lieu of the argument that they are already together and found their third with the autofind.

[S~V~S]

I talked myself into an MM vote.

[fingersplints]

Zeek has struck me as playing a very smooth, non spotlight style game. He is also not saying much of substance. I poked him twice, and his reaction was the same both times.

I think zeek mentioned in the last game that he has never been a baddie. So if anyone were to change up their playstyle, a first time baddie would likely be it.
I wish Rox were playing so I could ask her how this compares to the zeek she remembers. Maybe Hanna will be of some help here. I am not sure he is always as active as he was in Dr. Who though, or if it was because he really just likes Dr. Who.

[S~V~S]

I know, plus he is not here, it is like o'dark:30 in the UK now, right? So this is for another day. But that's a good point, about never having been a baddie, I had forgotten he said that. And if he was a rail (and that is who killed SVS 1.0) then he would not have BTS, at least not initially. Which would make it even harder.

I could be wrong, I was not looking at him at all until he made that post about me being dead. He *sounded* how I feel in games when someone I killed comes back. I might have totally dropped it if he had not reacted to it the way he did. Twice now.

[Boogs]

Where has DP and Bunny been?

[fingersplints]

Yes, SVS. Is late there, so would be interested in his responses to you another day. Problem is I am not sure who to vote for tonight.

I get the bwt suspicion, and I think it may be the best case presented. But he also sounds pretty sincere in his last plea.

Still not feeling great about Boogs, but he does get lynched a lot for saying weird shit. Not saying that makes him good, but it does make me a little more sympathetic to him.

@Boogs. DP never posts much, so this isn't weird for him. I think Degobunny said in the game on ksite that she is busy IRL.

[juliets]

Zeek has struck me as playing a very smooth, non spotlight style game. He is also not saying much of substance. I poked him twice, and his reaction was the same both times.

I think zeek mentioned in the last game that he has never been a baddie. So if anyone were to change up their playstyle, a first time baddie would likely be it.
I wish Rox were playing so I could ask her how this compares to the zeek she remembers. Maybe Hanna will be of some help here. I am not sure he is always as active as he was in Dr. Who though, or if it was because he really just likes Dr. Who.

I was with zeek on the baddie recruited team in Who so spent quite a bit of time with him. He did mention in that game that it was his first time being a baddie. He posted a lot, to the point where he got so excited about some information we had that he info dumped - not because he knew what he was doing but because he was just so excited to get the info out there in the thread and it wasn't just one post either. So in that sense I'd have to say he liked to post a lot when bad. I've not played a game with him good so I have no insight into how he acts when good.

I re-read BWT and tend to agree with Epi. I also re-remembered how he said he didn't think he had won the auction - how could you not know? Doesn't boo contact you if you won? Plus, on my spreadsheet he did win, but I will go back and check that in the thread just so I will know. Right now I'm considering BWT and MM.

linki: Who is Bunny?

[keys56000000000]

I'm interested in hearing from keys, as he's been very quiet after the searching debate and not said much about suspicions.

People didn't like what I had to say. The one person who did was lynched for it. A few people have accused me of disrespecting Boo and his game. It continues to be said. So, yeah. Now I'm just trying to be polite and run out the clock so the game keep moving. And what is there to say, anyway? The consensus seems to be that we're all intending to ditch the civs, if we live long enough. So why communicate anything to my competitors?

[juliets]

I just noticed that BWT, even though he said he didn't have time to defend himself, had time to go sign up for the Disney game. Why not use the time he spent telling us why he couldn't respond and the time signing up for the Disney game to defend himself. I don't like that at all.

voting birdwithteeth

[fingersplints]

linki: Who is Bunny?

I figured Ash/Degobunny

[S~V~S]

Juliets, he posted just as much when he was a civ, though. And it is not just a matter of post count, his content feels blendier to me. He could also be pulling back from that behavior. But like I said, it is totally gut. I usually trust my gut, but at this stage, I would be surprised if anyone else did.

And Keys, I don't think you are disrespecting boo the best part of being a host is seeing what the players do with your playground. A few times I have been disappointed that a fun mechanic did not play out the way I wanted, but overall, I know I have always enjoyed watching players do things with my mechanics that i never thought of myself, and i am sure boo is the same. I never suspected you for it, although you seemed to have thought I did. Actually, I suspected FZ for it I thought she was buddying you.

[Tangrowth]

S~V~S, just to give you another opinion: I am seeing a civvie zeek here. It definitely isn't DW zeek, and since Zelda is still wrapping up I won't say anything more than the fact that I called him out in Zelda in a similar fashion to you doing so here. I'm not sure the lower volume of posting indicates anything other than being busy and less interest in the theme (and it wasn't his first game out of retirement, as he said). I also am not getting the vibes you have been from his posts. That's just my assessment.

And keys, I wouldn't sweat it. You play the game how you want. I respect your viewpoints on the matter. I do appreciate your input, so I look forward to hearing what you think re: suspects and such.

Well, that was a big post, MP, that didn't really say anything new, just being excessively wordy about "Llama trusts LC for some reason. I think they would be obvious about it in a WIFOM attempt to trick people into thinking they're not partners."

It doesn't matter how strongly you claim to feel about it, no amount of feelings are going to make it true , or even sensible. Something is off about you this game, between you pushing as hard as you can on a very weak case, and you accusing people and then taking it back... And so many random questions, "hey A, what do you think of B?" "Who are your suspicions, C?" ... It's like, look how pro-Civvie I am being!

It does matter because I'm not letting it go, and it IS sensible. There's nothing wrong with my assumptions. You can denounce it if you wish, and I'd understand why you would, but it still is less "weak" than what most of the rest of players have been voting based off of.

The fact that you list all of those things as "off" tells me that you're either trying to manufacture suspicion on me or you just don't know my civvie playstyle because I've frequently been guilty of all of those things (except I don't think this current case of mine is "very weak", but I have already recognized that it's not based on amazing evidence). Do you not recall how I posted in DW?

No one has given me a better explanation for why Llama did a complete 180 on LC other than the fact that he: 1) gained BTSC with him and 2) thought he could get away with it. Which he totally is.

I think Occam's Razor applies here. I'm still totally convinced that LC and Llama are bad news, and I will continue to try to get them lynched.

I have my eye on him because his suspicions don't seem as organic as they usually are when Llama's a civvie. You're usually able to glimpse into his thought process, see who he's suspecting and why. This game, I feel like he's holding back a lot of his thoughts, or perhaps his thoughts aren't fully formed because he's a baddie. I'm far from trusting him but don't have much reason to vote for him.

This is exactly why I have not been convinced by Llama's explanation or by his behavior that he's a civvie Llama.

I also don't like how untransparent he's being in general. He said he told me juliets was bad but he hasn't elaborated at all. Then he switched to Boogs. Earlier he said he'd be OK lynching MM. And now he says he'd be OK lynching BWT. But he's not being completely transparent like he is when he's civvie.

It only convinces me further that it's likely the exact scenario I described has happened.

I just noticed that BWT, even though he said he didn't have time to defend himself, had time to go sign up for the Disney game. Why not use the time he spent telling us why he couldn't respond and the time signing up for the Disney game to defend himself. I don't like that at all.

voting birdwithteeth

It takes two seconds to sign up for a game, no?

I understand you have a valid point, and I agree that I'd like to see a defense from him, but I'm not sure that's totally a fair comparison.

[juliets]

Juliets, he posted just as much when he was a civ, though. And it is not just a matter of post count, his content feels blendier to me. He could also be pulling back from that behavior. But like I said, it is totally gut. I usually trust my gut, but at this stage, I would be surprised if anyone else did.

And Keys, I don't think you are disrespecting boo the best part of being a host is seeing what the players do with your playground. A few times I have been disappointed that a fun mechanic did not play out the way I wanted, but overall, I know I have always enjoyed watching players do things with my mechanics that i never thought of myself, and i am sure boo is the same. I never suspected you for it, although you seemed to have thought I did. Actually, I suspected FZ for it I thought she was buddying you.

Ok, yeah I haven't experienced him as a civ. I really have no opinion about him right now, was just giving you what I experienced in Dr. Who as another reference point.

[juliets]

MP, what do you think about the fact that llama has bid for the double search (where you can send in two guesses for your partner instead of just one)? Why would he do that if he's got all his partners?

[thellama73]

[quote="MovingPictures07"
No one has given me a better explanation for why Llama did a complete 180 on LC other than the fact that he: 1) gained BTSC with him and 2) thought he could get away with it. Which he totally is.
[/quote]

Did nobody read my Chesterton quote? I thought it summed my views up so nicely.

[fingersplints]

I think Occam's Razor applies here. I'm still totally convinced that LC and Llama are bad news, and I will continue to try to get them lynched.

So, if one came back as good, that wouldn't change make you more hesitant about the other?
Also, if someone who once was a civvie but is now part of a LMS group is lynched, would we be told that or will it just appear the same? That's not really to you just in general idk if boo has already answered that

[S~V~S]

I asked him that Day One, and he said you just come back as your card.

And thanks for the input on Zeek, MP. It is just a *feel* for me, as soon as I saw his post, I was like, "That's who killed me". I could be wrong, but that was how it felt, and how it still does feel to me.

Juliets, didn't you play Dr Who before zeek was recruited? So you have experienced him as a civ. He transitioned pretty flawlessly.