Monopoly Mafia [GAME OVER]

[Turnip Head]

Also, voting WITH your partner who's about to be lynched is suicide... I know it's happened before but that doesn't mean it's a viable strategy...

BWT's vote on LC was the final one, so that specific scenario doesn't really matter.

But he could have voted alongside his partner? That leaves keys, MP, and Boogs. Or there is the possibility he voted his partner. Or Rob's balls are as big as he claims and he threw his only partner under the bus.

Keys, MP and Boogs all had their own (compelling to themselves) reasons to vote LC early, before BWTs name even came up. Not saying that excludes them from being BWTs partner but at least their votes were justified and seem in character.

[Marmot]

TH, would you mind telling me how you went from this

I'm potentially looking at a MetalMarsh vote today and wondering how much support there would be behind that.

to this, your very next post (14 hour difference, yes)

From my reread, I don't think MM is a railroad. I would like to know his top suspicions outside of juliets... I don't think there's any reason to suspect jules at this point. Although she fooled me in Dr Who

The second post sounds fine, but the sincerity doesn't seem to match between the two. What changed your mind? Why were you garnering interest in my lynch when you had no reason to vote for me?

Linki: I agree, their votes had nothing to do with BWT based on the timing, but that doesn't mean the converse is false.

Also, didn't BWT vote for Boogs first?

[Turnip Head]

Because I reread you and saw something that made me think you are unlikely to be a railroad.

[Boogs]

TH, would you mind telling me how you went from this

I'm potentially looking at a MetalMarsh vote today and wondering how much support there would be behind that.

to this, your very next post (14 hour difference, yes)

From my reread, I don't think MM is a railroad. I would like to know his top suspicions outside of juliets... I don't think there's any reason to suspect jules at this point. Although she fooled me in Dr Who

The second post sounds fine, but the sincerity doesn't seem to match between the two. What changed your mind? Why were you garnering interest in my lynch when you had no reason to vote for me?

Linki: I agree, their votes had nothing to do with BWT based on the timing, but that doesn't mean the converse is false.

Also, didn't BWT vote for Boogs first?

No. Zeek voted me first, then BWT voted me and specifically said "I will vote Boogs now but will probably change my vote later" to summarize. He agreed with me on LC then tried to turn the tides on me and started saying i could be bad. Then when not enough agreed again, he flopped back to another player which I believe was LC to try to survive the lynch by that point.

I am still looking at LC or Llama as Railroads but i think an inactive player could be the last Utility. With us having replacements we cant vote for, it makes it harder.

[Boogs]

Also with BWT being a Utility, he was able to learn roles. Do we remember who he may have targeted in discussions? It could make them a possible RailRoad, right?

[Turnip Head]

We would need to cross reference all of BWT's suspicions with the players that we know landed on a Utility square (and got rolechecked)

[Turnip Head]

Players the Utilities knew the roles of before BWT died:

Elohcin (now BR2.0)
Lorab
TH
Daisy
FZ
Keys
Hedgeowl

[thellama73]

Players the Utilities knew the roles of before BWT died:

Elohcin (now BR2.0)
Lorab
TH
Daisy
FZ
Keys
Hedgeowl

And remember that utilities can land on their own property, so this doesn't rule any of these people out as electric company.

[zeek]

Great result

The utilities have also learnt my role.

[Turnip Head]

Somehow missed you Zeek. I think I got the rest of them.

[fingersplints]

I don't remember bwt mentioning suspicions of any of these people, but didn't in the Dr who game a baddie with info kind of out himself because of that? Since he hosted that game he might be a little more hesitant to suspect them.

and didn't he vote FZ? if so we know he voted for at least on person he knew to be civvie.

[Turnip Head]

Looking back at BWT's posts, it seems he killed Black Rock in an attempt to set me up

Other than that he didn't mention suspicion of many players outside of Boogs and Llama, neither of which have been checked by the uties.

[Marmot]

No. Zeek voted me first, then BWT voted me and specifically said "I will vote Boogs now but will probably change my vote later" to summarize. He agreed with me on LC then tried to turn the tides on me and started saying i could be bad. Then when not enough agreed again, he flopped back to another player which I believe was LC to try to survive the lynch by that point.

I meant that he had voted you before he switched to LC, that sort of first.

[Black Rock]

I am back! I was pleased to see one of my killers lynched.

Players the Utilities knew the roles of before BWT died:

Elohcin (now BR2.0)
Lorab
TH
Daisy
FZ
Keys
Hedgeowl

So they know who I was and they know who I am now? I feel so naked.

I have been semi keeping up but not entirely. Good thing I wasn't gone too long.

[Long Con]

Players the Utilities knew the roles of before BWT died:

Elohcin (now BR2.0)
Lorab
TH
Daisy
FZ
Keys
Hedgeowl

Zeek also landed on EC on Day 2, according to my notes.

[Long Con]

[Turnip Head]

The next question would be, did someone defend BWT (or refuse to mention him) AND go after one of the above players? That might be a way to find Electric Co. AND a railroad

[Epignosis]

Guys, while I applaud your enthusiasm for detective work, it may help if you realize that you've already caught Electric Company and are now looking for Water Works.

My hunch is that our suspect always leaves the water running as a calling card.

[Long Con]

Guys, while I applaud your enthusiasm for detective work, it may help if you realize that you've already caught Electric Company and are now looking for Water Works.

My hunch is that our suspect always leaves the water running as a calling card.

Shit, the Wet Bandits? *begins constructing possibly fatal traps all through house*

Good thinking, TH, if the Utilities had discovered a railroad, it's likely that they would want to use that knowledge to lynch the railroad. And the railroads knew that the Utilities had one of them caught... so perhaps they would have been watching for someone who came out against the role-discovered RR, and moved to lynch that person ASAP. I'm too lazy to go through BWT's posts right now, who's gonna do it?

[LoRab]

@LoRab~ I am older than you, and it flew right over my head. So

Yeah, I think someone would have to be within 5 years of me and probably american. Narrow window, I know.

Heyyyyyyyyy....you......guyssssssss.......

Did I just date myself terribly? Please. Someone else have gotten that.

Never say die, Lorab!

Not where I was going, but I do love me a goonie.

I was going for:

[Long Con]

I watched The Electric Company as a young child up here in Ontario. Roughly 30 years ago.

[Epignosis]

The Wet Bandit:

Splints i am not being shady. I expressed my opinion on LC finding his teammate and possibly getting the third and start bankrupting us. A monopoly this early is just as dangerous as a mafia member. I am suggesting he could be bluffing also and is mafia. Its a win win for me and i stand by my decision regardless what other disagree with me on it. Im Civ and alone, and it makes most sense to cast my vote on LC. Not changing my mind.

So wait....you want LC dead regardless of what his role is? Even if he's not a baddie or LMS right now?

This kind of talk is starting to sound dangerous to me. Very dangerous.

Switches vote to Boogs

The VERY next post:

I'm wary of a Boogs lynchtrain because I'm not sure a baddie Boogs would be that obviously pushing a case that isn't sticking. I think he may genuinely believe what he's saying.

Nonetheless, he is apparently going after LC for a totally different reason than I am. He appears to want him gone because he won the Autofind. My suspicion is due to a very specific chain of events that links Llama and LC's behavior.

I could see that being the case, but I think there is real danger in Boogs pushing the ideas that he's pushing. If we go down the path he's suggesting, then we're just lynching people for deciding to play the game a certain way.

I will most likely switch my vote away from Boogs (I'm wary of him being an easy lynch target as well), but I would like him to read some of the other cases out there. Because right now, I think he has massive tunnel vision.

++++

Add that to this:

So I'm gone for 24 hours, Epig throws a case together on me, and now it looks like I'm about to be lynched?

I would defend myself, but I don't have the time right now. I'm way behind on something for work with training, and I need to spend most of tonight working on it. Unfortunately, all I can do is vote LC and hope I somehow survive (which doesn't look good for me at this point). I do find it funny that a lot of you think I've been participating quite a bit. I chalk this game up there with most of the ones where I'm barely participating due to lack of time to get involved.

But oh well. I guess it is what it is. All I have time for it to ask for one more day, and to give me a chance to answer for my actions once I have the time to do so.

Epignosis I counted that you had the last vote to win that dice at the end. If not you, then who outbid you that I missed after? Also, BWT is notable on your finding of flopping like a trout. Something to keep in mind on discussion for tomorrow.

Discussion for tomorrow? Why not today?

You don't drive the train.

Remember?

Now is that an astonishing coincidence or is it just me?

++++

Finally, the kicker:

TH, would you mind telling me how you went from this

I'm potentially looking at a MetalMarsh vote today and wondering how much support there would be behind that.

to this, your very next post (14 hour difference, yes)

From my reread, I don't think MM is a railroad. I would like to know his top suspicions outside of juliets... I don't think there's any reason to suspect jules at this point. Although she fooled me in Dr Who

The second post sounds fine, but the sincerity doesn't seem to match between the two. What changed your mind? Why were you garnering interest in my lynch when you had no reason to vote for me?

Linki: I agree, their votes had nothing to do with BWT based on the timing, but that doesn't mean the converse is false.

Also, didn't BWT vote for Boogs first?

No. Zeek voted me first, then BWT voted me and specifically said "I will vote Boogs now but will probably change my vote later" to summarize. He agreed with me on LC then tried to turn the tides on me and started saying i could be bad. Then when not enough agreed again, he flopped back to another player which I believe was LC to try to survive the lynch by that point.

I am still looking at LC or Llama as Railroads but i think an inactive player could be the last Utility. With us having replacements we cant vote for, it makes it harder.

Look up.

What Boogs said happened didn't actually happen.

Also with BWT being a Utility, he was able to learn roles. Do we remember who he may have targeted in discussions? It could make them a possible RailRoad, right?

Right? Right guys? It could make them a possible one, right? Someone to take the focus off me?

I didn't know that kitties played in mice traps, but there we are.

SNAP

[Turnip Head]

I can dig it Epi. Boogs can have his turn in the hot seat. The interaction between him and BWT is weird.

[Hedgeowl]

I do love a snappy case from Epi.

[Epignosis]

According to the rules here are the winners as follows as far as we know:
Day 1:
Hedge wins Windfall
Epignosis wins dice roll
Epignosis wins chance

Day 2:
TH wins Auto protect
TH wins jail card
LC wins auto find and has partner contact
BwT wins auction card



So Again, Epignosis and TH win 2 things. Also, how does Epignosis have so much cash to blow, he must be getting low or have help. And LC auto found a partner potentially last night making him very powerful.
I will vote for either of those 3 if we agree they are getting too strong, which I totally do.

I do appreciate the list. Thanks! I'll add it to my spreadsheet.

Do you have any reasons to think Epig, TH, or LC are bad though? The only one of those who's pinged me at all is Epig (with the stuff between LC and him), and it wasn't enough for me to vote him yet. Or do you just want to vote for them because you feel they are too powerful?

If they're powerful, then fine. But I'm going to stick with voting for people I think are bad for now.

Also, I don't think I won the auction card. Someone outbid me for it pretty close to the last minute. Can't remember who though.

Linki: That actually is a good point about LC. He seemed interested in keys' early idea about actively choosing to not search for partners. And then for him to go and bid/win an auto-find power doesn't tell me if he changed his mind, or is trying to keep others from getting it.

Exactly and thank you for reminding me of his discussion on partners Day 0. Why would he buy it unless he was preventing others of searching? I know he's a good liar in mafia because he fooled me down to the final vote in Monty Python where he kept me tell the end alive. Either way, I think it should be a vote on him today and it seems like a mafia thing to do by going back on his word for searching.
To answer you though on voting today: I do agree we need baddies but it could be a bonus if they are one of the powerful people. I think it's safe to say mafia members would be bidding on these things just like we would to prevent us as well as have powers to stop us later on for doing things. I think LC and Epignosis could be bad, TH I do not think is bad. I only wanted to vote him for being too powerful. So Epignosis or LC today is okay with me, and from the two i would do LC.

[Epignosis]

Folks, bwt and Boogs had the same data.

I didn't win the extra die block, but they both believed I did. They weren't working off independent spreadsheets.

I am fucking Matlock.

[Epignosis]

"fucking" being an adjective and not a transitive verb!

[thellama73]

I can dig it Epi. Boogs can have his turn in the hot seat. The interaction between him and BWT is weird.

You seem awfully eager to get the spotlight on someone else, Mr. Late BWT Voter.

[Turnip Head]

I've been a late voter every lynch, and expect the trend to continue.

I was the first person to agree with Epi's original case on BWT, so there's that.

$10 Electric Company

[fingersplints]

llama - I think the same people just seem to be around later at night

I was supportive of Boogs suspicion before, but I laid off him some because I do feel bad for him getting lynched a lot for saying some weird things. But I think Epig brings up good points to link him to bwt. I'm curious to how he responds to these.

[boo]

Night 3 End/Day 4 Start: Seven

Hedgeowl: Wait, I thought all you did was kill innocent people.
B. & O. Railroad: Innocent? Is that supposed to be funny? An obese man... a disgusting man who could barely stand up; a man who if you saw him on the street, you'd point him out to your friends so that they could join you in mocking him; a man, who if you saw him while you were eating, you wouldn't be able to finish your meal. After him, I picked the lawyer and I know you both must have been secretly thanking me for that one. This is a man who dedicated his life to punishing people who make money by lying with every breath that they can muster to keeping murderers and rapists on the streets.
Hedgeowl: Murderers?
B. & O. Railroad: A woman...
Hedgeowl: Murderers, B. & O., like yourself?
B. & O. Railroad: [interrupts] A woman... so ugly on the inside she couldn't bear to go on living if she couldn't be beautiful on the outside. A drug dealer, a drug dealing pederast, actually! And let's not forget the disease-spreading whore! Only in a world this shitty could you even try to say these were innocent people and keep a straight face. But that's the point. We see a deadly sin on every street corner, in every home, and we tolerate it. We tolerate it because it's common, it's trivial. We tolerate it morning, noon, and night. Well, not anymore. I'm setting the example. What I've done is going to be puzzled over and studied and followed... forever.

And then there’s a box that makes Hedgeowl angry and they fight. And B. & O., losing, manages to run away.

No one has been killed.
It is now Day 4. You have 48 hours to lynch someone.

Updated Board
Board movements

Powers for auction:
1st) Risky Investment (Allows the player who uses it to invest any amount of money they want. At the end of each Day+Night phase, they will either lose the invested money (5% chance, +2% after each successful return), or get 7%-20% of the invested money. Cannot withdraw the invested money unless they’ve been returned an equal or greater amount of the original investment). - Starts at $100
2nd) 5 Votes (5 votes you send in via PM. Do not all have to be used in the same lynch. When this power is auctioned, 3 are available, 3 highest bids each get 1). - Start at $75. Please note, you can only get 1 of the 3, they are three different auctions, just the 3 highest different players each get 1.
3rd) Lock In (Allows the player who uses this power to make all votes cast in a lynch unable to be moved in two lynches of their choice. Other players will not know this power has been used until voting. Players who vote and then realize it can tell the rest of the thread, but the player who plays this power then gets $100 from the person who states it in the thread and $10 per vote on the person who gets lynched in that lynch from the bank) - Starts at $200
4th) Deflect (Deflect all night actions done to a player of your choice to another player at random, if you spent less than $200 on the the power, or to a player of your choice if you spent $201 or more on the power) - Starts at $50
5th) Epigfier (If you obtain this role, you may force one player to not use the letter S for a single day period. If they break the rule once, they are warned. If they break it a second time, they lose any vote (including modification) for that day period. Any additional infraction will result in a loss of $50 per post that will be rewarded to the Epigfier) - Starts at $50
6th) Mutually Assured Survival/Destruction (This power lets you and all current BTSC teammates combine all of your current and future money into a single amount when used. If combined you ever fall below $0, you all die) - Starts at $100
7th) Rob a player (Allows the player who uses it to attempt to rob another player. They can get money, a power if the other player is holding one, or get sent to jail) - Starts at $10

[Turnip Head]

Well I meant to outbid Boogs on Electric Company but my dumbass didn't increase the bid to $11. So boogs has Electric Company.

[Epignosis]

Nice on #5. Cool touch.

[Epignosis]

Well I meant to outbid Boogs on Electric Company but my dumbass didn't increase the bid to $11. So boogs has Electric Company.

Why did it take you until now to figure that out?

You been online this whole time. Boogs has not.

[Turnip Head]

Because I asked Boo if I won and he told me somebody else already bid $10. For some reason I thought the bidding was at $6.

>.<

[bea]

"Freakwently"???

My god, I am so fried.

freakwently?

Now I understand why I'm replacing....

So - yea -that's where I'm at now. Interesting day 1 discussion. I can see key's point re: the union. That said, I agreed with llama more as I read it. by now this is all prolly pretty moot, but figured I'd weigh in while I giggle at an epic bea like typo.

Lets see what the day 1 lynch is like egh? I"m trying to pay attention to catch up but I stoopidly put on a mel brooks documentary and he keeps distracting me.

[bea]

You must think Epig's game is pretty transparent and easy to figure out if you can say you think he's not bad in the middle of Day One. I've always found him to be the type of player who enjoys having a few layers of obfuscation in the things he does, so as to intentionally be hard to read.

Do you have a good history of correct Day One reads on Epig? I'm just interested to know how you came to that conclusion about him, and why you think it's right.

I tend to think of epi as this forum's less Texas version of wabbit.....

So I guess what I'm saying is that I agree - it's a bit hard to figure out where he is on d1 or like d12.


also - yea - I'm here in my catsup. Mel brooks doc is over - lets see how many pages I can power through egh?

[bea]

inb4 someone says "but Elochin wouldn't have had BTSC with Made or known he was a baddie!"... all she had to do in Lorab's scenario is believe the slip was real. Lorab linki'd me when I was posting, so the reat of this post is unrelated to her case.

* * * * *

In a recent game, I correctly called out Lorab and Canucklehead as baddies, because they trusted me and openly said they thought I was Civvie in the thread, multiple times. I found it suspicious, because I was a baddie, and I started to try to figure out why they thought I was Civvie. I came to the conclusion that they probably hoped I was Civvie, but that they were simply saying those things in order to placate me, or to make me feel more in sync with them in the thread. It was a way of acting that was, at its core, intended to make themselves seem more Civvie.

I'm not saying that Metalmarsh and Turnip Head are baddies. I am saying that their trust in Epignosis on Day One fits the basic points of what Lorab and Canucklehead were doing in that game, in that they don't have anything much to go on to say they trust him. It could be viewed as a way for baddies to set up a trust-warmed in-thread relationship with a player that they believe would be a better ally than enemy.

And, well, Epig is that sort of player.

oh - those are good points too. They really were buttering you up in that game. I took the opposite stance. Because well. Yea. Because. It would be really weird if I started trusting you like all of a sudden. can't wait to see how this plays out - should prolly quit typing and read more.

[bea]

$250 on auto find a partner

Just wanted to say - I adore you for this Ash.

It has shocked me how alike we think in a good way.

[bea]

oh also - yes - I have been drinking...

[bea]

LC your tone this game has been completely different from what it was in the recent Dr Who game. Was that an intentional choice you made while playing this game, or does it maybe tell us something about your role this time around?

I'm curious about how the tone is different here. I'm sorry if this is addressed as I read, it was just something I thought was interesting.

[bea]

I just saw that I stepped on the baddies property. Great, they get $240 for 3 people stepping on...

Yeah... by my spreadsheet, Electric Company is up $480. The second biggest net earner is Metalmarsh at +$200. So if MM is Electric Company he's so rich!

Epig seems to be down the most, at -$500, from his big bid on the Chance card (will you let us know when you use it, Ep? Are you using it yourself or someone else? Is it Chance or Community Chest that can send you Directly To Jail? That would be funny.) Then Hedgeowl seems to be down $375, which I believe was the price she paid for the Windfall.

Ha, I just thought of another reason Epig could give for the early big bid. Maybe the baddies will consider him 'closer to bankruptcy' and avoid wasting their nightkill on a player that is so much closer to death.

LC I had $275 for Hedgie so went back and checked when I saw your $375. It is indeed $275 in the thread, bid was made right before end of period. Would there have been some reason $100 would have attached to the $275 that maybe I'm not thinking of?

Hedgeowl also paid $100 to Income Tax on the first move.

Well, apparently i need a SS too then. i was going to correct you as well. I am not good with money irl either.

so much this. *sigh* I will be keeping our host busy with annoying "wait? how much did I spend? I thought I had x dollars." IF this game is anything like my checkbook, I'll be dead in like 2 cycles.

[bea]

Lorab indicted me of being unkind toward her in every context. I have done my due diligence and I can find no place (other than when we were bad together in chat) of her being angry with me. If Lorab can identify where I have been rude or "attacking," I would like the opportunity to make that right.

Barring that, I think Lorab = bad.

You think I'm mad because I'm annoyed? That is just not true. I'm just sick of the way you always say I'm wrong. You're right, I haven't been angry, because I don't usually let my frustration out. But show me one time when I have had an opinion and you haven't told me that I'm wrong.

And why do you think I'm bad, exactly? Is it because I'm fighting back?

Anyway, I have my third 14 hour work day in a row tomorrow and I'm not sure how much I'll be around tomorrow.

Voting Elo. Because of the points I made earlier. And she hasn't defended, or even acknowledged. And I have no reason to think differently from my original thoughts (except for Epi saying that I can't possibly be right).

fwiw - not defending lorab - not trying to damn epi.

but I remember JC asking early of epi about elo's allignment. And she said "he's only been wrong once."

I disagree. He's been wrong at least twice. The first time - they were baddies together in the grim game rox and I hosted
The second time - the time JC rembers (I think?) is in Potter. He was REALLY bad at reading his wife that game. OR she was JUST THAT GOOD at snowing him.

still sooo much more to catsup on...

[bea]

Guys come on. Long Con isn't a baddie. I think if anyone can read him, I can. I know I voted for him yesterday, but his gameplay since then has not been baddie like in the slightest.

I'm super impressed by your confidence in being able to read LC. You know he was the inventor and cause of right?

[bea]

Okay, yay game!

First off, nice job on Made! And RIP S~V~S.

So the utilities know the roles of TH, Elo, LoRab, and zeek? Something to keep in mind, especially to see what players think of these individuals.

Not totally sure what I think about TH and LC at the moment, or Epig and LoRab for that matter, but I doubt I'll be voting there today (more on that in just a bit here).

Interesting thoughts on searching vs. not searching. keys made some good points, but so did llama. I suppose every player will inevitably decide what they think here each night, and this discussion seems to be gone, so I won't continue the debate unnecessarily. However, I will say that this post I agreed with wholeheartedly:

Llama, it's cool that you're invoking Nash equilibrium, I dig it. However, unless you can show me the spreadsheets where you've gone over every potential scenario in the game, just saying "game theory" doesn't actually mean much. You need to have studied this particular game to know its theory.

You don't. You just need to understand that when individual interest trumps group interest and there's no way to detect cheaters, individual interest wins out.

I think it's a very, very, very poorly considered strategy to focus our lynches on trying to prevent Monopolies. The mafia can prevent monopolies just fine using their kills. Lynches are the only way we have to kill off the railroads and utilities.

Nonetheless, I can't help but wonder what the mafia would want to push in that discussion.

On that note, I really think FZ. may be bad. The way she contributed to the discussion backing keys's POV somewhat subtly in addition to her D1 vote struck me as not genuine:

I'm going to bed. Voting Epi for using so much money.

I have a hard time believing a civvie FZ. would have used something flimsy/illogical like this for a D1 vote, even if it was D1.

I also don't like:

I can't help but be a little $u$piciou$ of the people voting for Epigno$i$. Fell$ like an ea$y lynch train, if you know what I mean.

I actually find Boogs a little suspicious for voting Epig as well, but on the other hand, don't we all want to bandwagon on a lynch to get something out of it? So voting for someone who didn't get a vote yet seems like bad strategy for a player. That's what you get when all you care about is money and power

This. She doesn't address her reasoning but drops this little post I found insincere as well.

I don't think Epi is bad, or at least I don't think he has BTSC yet... but if he has a majority vote 10 minutes before deadline you can bet your $weet bippy that I'll vote for him and then try to take his card.

Yeah, pretty sure this will be standard. Not criticising at all, but we'll all probably do this at some point and vote patterns won't be that helpful. It's also going to make bandwagons very likely amd less likely to result in a mafia lynch.

I understand the thoughts on Epi but don't necessarily agree. I expected some people to flash the cash early and I'm not that surprised its him. Dunno, as usual he's not defending himself so its hard to tell what to make of it

He bid freaking 500$. That's half of the money we initially got. Just strikes me weird when all people talk about is how we need the money to not die

Weird? Since when did weird = suspicious? And why didn't she say this when she voted him then? And how does this make Epig bad?

And all of her subsequent questioning seems OTT:

It probably won't. You wanted to know how I would get money- I plan to get money the very way anyone in Monopoly would get money. Luck.

Yep, your answers definitely make me want to take my vote off...or not. I don't like lynching civs, so I'm trying to get to the bottom of your actions. What was the point in your bid? Did you just not think it through and went with it at that moment? Would you do it again now?

We all know Epig can be aggressive; I saw his $500 bet as totally in character and not indicative of alignment, personally. Most players, if given the utility role, would be that aggressive to publicly drop that much money on something so trivial if they had the extra money. This suspicion falls into the analyzing someone's behavior and pegging them into a role even though they'd likely act that way regardless -- like when a lot of people thought I was the unlynchable role in Homestar Runner because I was playing so aggressively, even though everyone knows I post a ton and act aggressively often regardless of alignment.

Additionally...

Nice job lynching Made.

Here's a thought. There are 3 players who would love to get their hands on the card. What if we pick someone who is the most trusted in the game (of course we vote on that), which granted is hard to pick at the moment, but still, and we let them make the bid. It's a risk, because we could end up picking a baddie, but on the other hand, all other players can't hide behind "I'm trying to prevent the baddies from getting it" excuse, and if one of the players falls on it later on, and the money is doubled, we know that person was bad in the first place.

I found this line of thinking suspicious right from the get go, but ESPECIALLY so considering S~V~S nabbed Made's card and now she's dead.

The civvie FZ. I know would be wary about trusting anyone.

Hold on, this protect power is only good for protecting someone else? Glad I was outbid :P

I'm not sure where I stand on suspicions, not many standout things in my mind. This is the main one:

Nice job lynching Made.

Here's a thought. There are 3 players who would love to get their hands on the card. What if we pick someone who is the most trusted in the game (of course we vote on that), which granted is hard to pick at the moment, but still, and we let them make the bid. It's a risk, because we could end up picking a baddie, but on the other hand, all other players can't hide behind "I'm trying to prevent the baddies from getting it" excuse, and if one of the players falls on it later on, and the money is doubled, we know that person was bad in the first place.

This may have been a way to ensure the baddies could kill two birds with one stone: NK and take the card, and eliminate a trusted person. This has my attention.

No, it was just a bad idea apparently, first, because I didn't think through the fact that they would just kill the person who won the bid, and second, because I didn't know that the RR would still show 25. If you want a lynch me for being being stupid, go ahead, I deserve it

I also found this response not genuine, especially the last line. Seems totally out of character for FZ.

I feel bad because it's so awesome to be playing a game with her again after so long on TS, but I think I'll be voting FZ. today. In fact, since we can change votes and due to my level of confidence, I'll vote her now.

Yeah make it rain!

$60 on the extra die role power!

I'll make $ure you get an extra die.

you gonna keep up he $$$$$ all game Epi?

Ca$h rule$ everything around me.

Also, this.

you're pretty heavy handed here about what a civ fz would do or not do. You make assumptions about what a civ fz would do that calculate nothing about her life or what is going on in her world or even something so daring as she might be trying to change her play style.

And how did that vote work out for you?

[bea]

I'm voting FZ. This is the second pity post when someone suspects her. Not really buying it, no defence at all to what MP has said and a "lynch me for being stupid" when I questioned her

Having a lot of long days at the moment so it's bedtime for me.

fwiw -I get that - sometimes when you are civ and know you aren't doing your duty, you just hope to land on the granade so that the other active civs live another day.

[LoRab]

Guys come on. Long Con isn't a baddie. I think if anyone can read him, I can. I know I voted for him yesterday, but his gameplay since then has not been baddie like in the slightest.

I'm super impressed by your confidence in being able to read LC. You know he was the inventor and cause of right?

Just for the sake of accurate history, LC did design , but I actually requested the creation of the smiley. Because, really, if an idea ever needed a smiley, it was FEB. He's actually modeled after Diamond Dog. I can't remember who was the first to be described as a FEB, or who was the first to use the term.

[bea]

I thought Lorab's point was we need to be able to disagree without implying the other is stupid?

sooooooooooooooooooooooo much this,

[bea]

I am inclined to believe FZ because back in the day I sorta played the pity card when I was civvie as well when I felt overwhelmed with the game and everything, plus it is also an indicator FZ doenst have BTSC.
The person I am mostly looking to right now is juliets, now I am nor familair with the style juliets normally plays, but looking through the posts I find it weird that most of them are either questions directed at other players who they find suspicous without really contributing anything substantial or info about votes and/or money. To me this feels like a good baddie tactic, posting without revealing too much about yourself so I am gonna go ahead and vote juliets. I'm not 100% convinced but so far this has spiked my baddie-sensor the most.

HannaK, my mafia style is to ask questions. Also, I got lynched once for being too nice. These two things are hallmarks of my style, i.e., regardless of my alignment I ask a lot of questions - that's how I process information - and I am normally polite when playing. You can ask the people who play with me often and I'm pretty sure they will say the same. I'm not sure what you mean about revealing anything about myself - did you read the post I just posted about who I am thinking about right now?

Speaking of that TH, TH there is one other person who has caught my eye depending on how he answers my question and that is llama. I forgot to include that in my last post.

I still win getting votes "I am voting you because I trust you." BEST REASON EVER FOR VOTES. ok - sure I was bad that game, but still, "I'm voiting you because I trust you' Oh dana. I hope some day I can make it up to her.

[bea]

Glad I had time to pop on.

Hey MP, interested to hear your thoughts when you get back to the thread.

I'm not interested in the content of the Epi-Lorab argument, more the context. Personally see an overreaction on Lorab's part but that doesn't mean he's bad at all. Also:

<snip> If I cannot be correct, then how can I be intelligent?

You can be intelligent but wrong, and really dumb but right. Two aren't mutally exclusive.

More interesting is the TH-LC argument. Interesting developments. I was under the impression the cards of a NK'd player would be taken by the killer as well, but there you go.

Not sure how I'll vote, could both be civ on civ. Still mulling over FZ's plan of letting the most trusted player win the bid as well. Probably be voting for one of the people mentioned in this post however.

First of all, I'm female. Second of all, it's a tone thing. You can't possibly be correct and why would someone possibly do that have an implication that the person who came up with the idea is not thinking.

And if you only read this thread, I could see it as being seen as overreacting. But it's happened in MANY games and I reached my breaking point.

Also, Lorab's argument amounts to:
"If you disagree with me, you think I'm wrong. If I'm wrong, I must be stupid. Therefore, disagreeing with me is tantamount to calling me stupid."

That way, madness lies. We have to be able to disagree with each other, or else mafia has no point. Lighten up.

Is this why you voted for me without posting about it?

And I'm not saying not to disagree. I'm saying that you can disagree by saying, "I don't see it that way," or "I don't think that's what's happening." You don't have to tell the other person that they have come up with a ridiculous idea that can't possibly be right.

Lorab, please tell me where I defended Made in hopes that I could have BTSC with him? Where do you even get this kind of evidence that I am trying to get BTSC with him?

For the record, you are incorrect. I have no BTSC or connection to the baddies and have no desire for it.

I didn't say you had BTSC. I theorized that you believed Made to be your teammate and wanted to save him. You did not defend him--that's exactly my point. You didn't even mention him--which at that point in the conversation was odd. And a nice way for a baddie to distance from a teammate--by avoiding the conversation and mentioning someone else you find suspicious.

I thought Lorab's point was we need to be able to disagree without implying the other is stupid?

Exactly.

Although I think this goes back to being an immigrant to this forum. And why I strongly consider leaving it every game. The friendly tone that exists on the other forums where I've played just isn't that same here. Attacks often seem personal and disagreements aren't done in a way that are disagreeing with the ideas. I think that my style just doesn't fit in here. but I like a lot of my friends here and I don't have anywhere else to play right now, so I keep sticking around. Maybe I should just learn my lesson and either accept that it's ok to tell others that they can't possibly be right and not understand that doing so is different from disagreeing with someone.

And that one can respect that another player, with a whole crap ton of experience, who happens to think differently than you, might just be right sometimes. Especially when you've seen it happen (and related to ideas that you called stupid).

Lorab, I apologize if my direct approach in your prior experience with me had been off-putting. I mean that. However, you're rather direct too.

But show me one time when I have had an opinion and you haven't told me that I'm wrong.

All of here that I can tell, for one. I can pull up more if need be.

I'm not going to reread that whole game, and I don't remember specifically. I was perhaps exaggerating. And it's not so much your direct approach but the way you say things. And whatever. I'm not going to change you. You don't seem to have an interest in changing. I'll just ignore it. I just don't do well with people who are insulting to my intelligence and insight--and you often have insulted both through your reaction to my ideas.

And I'm not even sure how expressing anger after being told that an idea that I had can't possibly be correct (when, it can actually be correct...just like a night poll, in the game when we had BTSC, resulting in a protection that led to a failed kill was an idea you thought couldn't possibly be true--and was, in the end, true).

My brain works differently than yours. It doesn't make me smarter. It doesn't make you smarter. We are probably of equal intelligence--you seem to be about as smart as I am, at least. We just think through things entirely differently. It would be nice to appreciate the diversity instead of attacking it.

Anyway, if I die. You'll all know that my reaction has been emotionally honest and that it is not indicative of my being bad. Because I'm not bad. I'm civ. I'm just a lonely, lowly street trying to do my best and have fun.

And I need to get back to work now.

I'm tempted to change my vote for the sake of self-preservation, but I don't particularly suspect FZ at this point and I do suspect elo. So, I'm keeping my vote where it is and hoping no one else votes for me and that there isn't any pesky vote manipulation.

fwiw - I <3 you lorab. And I'm so happy you play with us. I hope that we can always be challenged by your insights because diversity makes us stronger.