Lawyers, Guns and Money- [TOWN WINS!]

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

Falcon and neon were off wagon. Bea and roxy didn't vote. Lucy voted in self-defence. Mata was on sabi. Fingersplints and soneji were on lucy. I'm almost inclined to let Scotty in to my town circle, but for completeness he was also on sabi. This doesn't give me a tonne to work with right now, but I'm noting that stuff for myself for future reference.

I was off wagon because I literally town read both wagons and if I was here for EoD I would've raised hell trying to get everyone to understand why I had a hard town read on Sabi but I messes up EoD times.

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

Thinking about it I'm gonna drop a [VOTE: Scotty] aubergine for that, let it slow cook overnight and see how I feel about it tomorrow.

Do you think scum would ever make this play? What benefit does this play give to mafia?

Scotty is probably town.

[Golden]

Or you mean looking for consensus?

The other way is to get w/w wagons.

Also fwiw you might not get a bea's replacement and just have to try to solve my dumb rl nubness vs am I a wolf. You have been a wolf with me. So has svs. Kate has had civ btsc with me.

What are your odds calculater on "I had a day off and I forgot I was playing a mafia game" if I had btsc?

Very low. You’d be guilty.

I’m wary because of how busy you’ve been though. Old bea was rarely quite *this* busy

[bea]

Old bea didnt have to run a store she literally wishes she could burn to the ground. As far as job goes, this job has become a battle of I will fix this, or I will die.

I have wanted to quit. I am still getting job offers, shear stubborness and fear of corporperate offers after they stole my dream job from me 2 months ago keeps me doing what I am doing.

If you remember nothing about rl jen/bea - it should be hpw very stubborn I get when something comes close to breaking me.

I get why you are wary golden. I really do. I have never been this absent from a game. Regardless of allignement. I swear I am the same distracted nub bea as I was last time around still trying and failing at doing the best I can.

Only you can decide if you believe it or not.

[bea]

As for all of that, i did above try to give reads and reengage in this game. I welcome your or anyone elses thoughts or questions on them. I am going to bed rn, but my opener assurred me he would be there tomorrow - so I should have some time tomorrow before my close to particpate more.

[Golden]

I do see the same bea I saw the first time… solvey effort bea… doing what you can and trying to solve within the envelope of the time you can dedicate.

And I’m now wondering if I should mean towards splints as well.

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

Crashing your car is scary and I can't stop crying lol

[Golden]

Crashing your car is scary and I can't stop crying lol

Fair enough. I’ve done it once, once is enough.

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

I've been in a couple but this was my first in years :/

[Golden]

@Neon fingersplints or matahari?

[Golden]

If you’re not in the mood to play that’s fine

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

@Neon fingersplints or matahari?

Either or but right now I'm leaning splints I think. I'd be fine going either right now though.

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

*singing voice*

all by myselfffffffffff I don't wanna be all by myself anymoreeeeeeeee

[Dennis]

Thinking about it I'm gonna drop a [VOTE: Scotty] aubergine for that, let it slow cook overnight and see how I feel about it tomorrow.

Do you think scum would ever make this play? What benefit does this play give to mafia?

Scotty is probably town.

"Since I'm wrong, we should vote this guy INSTEAD of me" is what I got from it and it seems maybe like a deflection.

[Soneji]

I'm still reading through parts of the thread but I want to bring forth a thought on the set-up that could certainly have an effect on wolves mindset in this game. I didn't see wolves win condition listed anywhere but assuming it's to reach vote parity, or even just killing all town, then so long as all three members are alive then they win as soon as there are only five town members left due to being able to vote silence two townies each night. At that point town can only tie elim votes, so has no path to winning.

So more than normal wolves will want to ensure all members make it to endgame, and keeping the Lawyer alive is top priority as even with just one other wolf they lower the number needed for vote parity. Bussing is very unlikely, and hard defenses of packmates very likely.

If anyone brought this up before now, then a cookie for them.

[Dennis]

I'm still reading through parts of the thread but I want to bring forth a thought on the set-up that could certainly have an effect on wolves mindset in this game. I didn't see wolves win condition listed anywhere but assuming it's to reach vote parity, or even just killing all town, then so long as all three members are alive then they win as soon as there are only five town members left due to being able to vote silence two townies each night. At that point town can only tie elim votes, so has no path to winning.

So more than normal wolves will want to ensure all members make it to endgame, and keeping the Lawyer alive is top priority as even with just one other wolf they lower the number needed for vote parity. Bussing is very unlikely, and hard defenses of packmates very likely.

If anyone brought this up before now, then a cookie for them.

Do you think that would effect how they talk in the thread too? i.e Lawyer doesn't make as many claims as the other two?

[Soneji]

I'm still reading through parts of the thread but I want to bring forth a thought on the set-up that could certainly have an effect on wolves mindset in this game. I didn't see wolves win condition listed anywhere but assuming it's to reach vote parity, or even just killing all town, then so long as all three members are alive then they win as soon as there are only five town members left due to being able to vote silence two townies each night. At that point town can only tie elim votes, so has no path to winning.

So more than normal wolves will want to ensure all members make it to endgame, and keeping the Lawyer alive is top priority as even with just one other wolf they lower the number needed for vote parity. Bussing is very unlikely, and hard defenses of packmates very likely.

If anyone brought this up before now, then a cookie for them.

Do you think that would effect how they talk in the thread too? i.e Lawyer doesn't make as many claims as the other two?

Depends on who randed the Lawyer role really. If it's a player who can afford to blend they might be more low key then usual, but a vet player with expectations on them may not change anything.

[Dennis]

I'm still reading through parts of the thread but I want to bring forth a thought on the set-up that could certainly have an effect on wolves mindset in this game. I didn't see wolves win condition listed anywhere but assuming it's to reach vote parity, or even just killing all town, then so long as all three members are alive then they win as soon as there are only five town members left due to being able to vote silence two townies each night. At that point town can only tie elim votes, so has no path to winning.

So more than normal wolves will want to ensure all members make it to endgame, and keeping the Lawyer alive is top priority as even with just one other wolf they lower the number needed for vote parity. Bussing is very unlikely, and hard defenses of packmates very likely.

If anyone brought this up before now, then a cookie for them.

Do you think that would effect how they talk in the thread too? i.e Lawyer doesn't make as many claims as the other two?

Depends on who randed the Lawyer role really. If it's a player who can afford to blend they might be more low key then usual, but a vet player with expectations on them may not change anything.

I was saying that because multiple people have said Matahari isn't hunting as active as she normally is and that could be because she got Lawyer. There could be RL reasons but until that's addressed I'm gonna [VOTE: Matahari] aubergine

[Seanzie]

*checks thread*

*Everything looks fine*

*leaves*

[Soneji]

I'm still reading through parts of the thread but I want to bring forth a thought on the set-up that could certainly have an effect on wolves mindset in this game. I didn't see wolves win condition listed anywhere but assuming it's to reach vote parity, or even just killing all town, then so long as all three members are alive then they win as soon as there are only five town members left due to being able to vote silence two townies each night. At that point town can only tie elim votes, so has no path to winning.

So more than normal wolves will want to ensure all members make it to endgame, and keeping the Lawyer alive is top priority as even with just one other wolf they lower the number needed for vote parity. Bussing is very unlikely, and hard defenses of packmates very likely.

If anyone brought this up before now, then a cookie for them.

Do you think that would effect how they talk in the thread too? i.e Lawyer doesn't make as many claims as the other two?

Depends on who randed the Lawyer role really. If it's a player who can afford to blend they might be more low key then usual, but a vet player with expectations on them may not change anything.

I was saying that because multiple people have said Matahari isn't hunting as active as she normally is and that could be because she got Lawyer. There could be RL reasons but until that's addressed I'm gonna [VOTE: Matahari] aubergine

Hunting a specific role of the mafia has a low accuracy rate as there's too many variables involved, though mata is suspect for other reasons anyways so not the worst vote.

[Dennis]

*checks thread*

*Everything looks fine*

*leaves*

What do you mean 'everything looks fine'? Was there something in specific you were looking for?

[Dennis]

I'm still reading through parts of the thread but I want to bring forth a thought on the set-up that could certainly have an effect on wolves mindset in this game. I didn't see wolves win condition listed anywhere but assuming it's to reach vote parity, or even just killing all town, then so long as all three members are alive then they win as soon as there are only five town members left due to being able to vote silence two townies each night. At that point town can only tie elim votes, so has no path to winning.

So more than normal wolves will want to ensure all members make it to endgame, and keeping the Lawyer alive is top priority as even with just one other wolf they lower the number needed for vote parity. Bussing is very unlikely, and hard defenses of packmates very likely.

If anyone brought this up before now, then a cookie for them.

Do you think that would effect how they talk in the thread too? i.e Lawyer doesn't make as many claims as the other two?

Depends on who randed the Lawyer role really. If it's a player who can afford to blend they might be more low key then usual, but a vet player with expectations on them may not change anything.

I was saying that because multiple people have said Matahari isn't hunting as active as she normally is and that could be because she got Lawyer. There could be RL reasons but until that's addressed I'm gonna [VOTE: Matahari] aubergine

Hunting a specific role of the mafia has a low accuracy rate as there's too many variables involved, though mata is suspect for other reasons anyways so not the worst vote.

This feels civ.

[Seanzie]

*checks thread*

*Everything looks fine*

*leaves*

What do you mean 'everything looks fine'? Was there something in specific you were looking for?

No, nothing specific. There are lots of generic things I could have seen that would have made me think not everything looks fine.

[Scotty]

Doesn't this plan just, potentially, identify civilians. What exactly are we trying to gain with this plan? Keep in mind it's very late and I'm running on fumes.

Yes? Identifying civilians is great!

[Soneji]

Got through almost all posts in game, will be somewhat around rest of day but have a D&D session then will be watching football, so divided focus.

Gone back to read it again:

Kate - holy bad countertrain, wtf guys.
Sabi - Sean, golden, SVS or Lucy contains a wolf. Also, ties are bad.
Scotty = not committing, sure looks like a seanzie save to me. Rejects "SVS is obvtown" arguments.

Dennis - "with marmot dead, I'm not certain how to read the Wilgy wagon"
Seanzie - "not gonna dome sabi, that's derailing the thread, also SVS is obvitown"
SVS - Just explains her thinking

Instinct says Kate might just be caught up in that first bundle, it's not like examination of that group is bad. But it's quite central to why scotty and sabi are forefront of my mind today.

Conversely, the bottom group (people on the wilgy train) don't try to control the narrative at all.

The first group is rightly calling for accountability from the Wilgy voters, while the second has every reason to not want to rock the boat. Dennis is a newbie, what narrative is he going to try and control? Plus several players rushed to proclaim him townie for his EoD. Seanzie just narrowly escaped the noose, of course they'd avoid a thunder dome. SVS does look good from how they explained their vote, and how they wanted a tie.

I find the bolded rather amusing as controlling the narrative has been a large part of your play this game, including this post.

If at least one of scotty and sabi isn’t a wolf I’ll bite my hat twice.

One down, one to go. Don't see a Scotty push so far this day though, curious.

Well I thought he was mafia yesterday and his end of day behavior didn't help that at all.

My thoughts on Dennis don't assume Sean is bad. Him placing the last vote on any civ wasn't going to look good since we (the civs) do know for certain one way or the other and they (maf) do. If I were on dennis' mafia team I'd strongly counsel him not to be the deciding vote on anyone who was a civ. Plus his actions seem instinctive, not like they were well thought out with other players.

I don’t get it. In what world is mafia Sean threatening to unvote wilgy and elim himself just no ensure an elim if he’s bad.

Threatening to do it and actually doing it are two VERY different things.

I just can’t square away a Seanzie wolf read at all at this point. I think there isn’t a single aspect of his game that makes sense as wolf.

What about his unvote on sabi when it was 5-3? Like, that’s basically the same thing as what he threatened to do, and he actually did it.

-He racked up a ton of votes by midday and no one was seemingly budging
-He refused to offer alternatives with any merit or explanation
-He remained aloof and simultaneously snippy at times
-His unvoting means nothing because he was already in the lead looking to croak. But doing so broadcasts “I’m not afraid to die, come at me” which is legitimate gambit that I see mafia do all the time.

But yeah; there’s not a single aspect of his game that makes sense as wolf

Dude...

Scotty: Seanzie, Who is a good alternative? Sabi? Me?

Me: You apparently already know what my answer would be.

Scotty: Seanzie won't give an alternative.

Think for a second, what did I actually say to your question?

I’ve been down this path with you before. Time is a circle jfc

When I go to the doctor for a pain in my chest, I don’t want the doctor to ask me what I think the problem is.

I offered you the chance yesterday to do some casing and alternative names, and offered a few names that I was assuming you suspected. Your response was very similar to this one.

This is how I get prescribed liver medication for my plaque psoriasis

This is my new favorite post in this game

Townie feeling frustration

Threatening to do it and actually doing it are two VERY different things.

I just can’t square away a Seanzie wolf read at all at this point. I think there isn’t a single aspect of his game that makes sense as wolf.

What about his unvote on sabi when it was 5-3? Like, that’s basically the same thing as what he threatened to do, and he actually did it.

-He racked up a ton of votes by midday and no one was seemingly budging
-He refused to offer alternatives with any merit or explanation
-He remained aloof and simultaneously snippy at times
-His unvoting means nothing because he was already in the lead looking to croak. But doing so broadcasts “I’m not afraid to die, come at me” which is legitimate gambit that I see mafia do all the time.

But yeah; there’s not a single aspect of his game that makes sense as wolf

Is this last sentence sarcasm, just to be clear?

Not at all

I used sarcastic orange for that statement by the by

Not gonna lie I'm still confused. Do you think Seanzie is doing things that make sense as wolf or not?

Sorry. My sarcasm was coming on strong.

It was a response to Golden not finding a single shred of evidence that Seanzie could be wolf, and I was listing legitimately wolfy things that one could stop and go “yeah, that doesn’t sound towny”

Whether or not I think he is wolf at the present? Im not sure. Leaning not? I think a lot of those could just be Seanzie. I have horrible memory and don’t remember if that is behavior he normally exhibits as town

Yeah it comes off rather disingenuous to act as if there are no valid reasons to suspect Seanzie.

My gut says the wilgy wagon is 100% clean

Oh, it's a gut read. Duly noted

Yeah, I have said if one isbad its Lucy.

Marmot is flipped
I know it’s not me
Seanzie is my top town at this point
SVS is also my top town at this point. They’re fighting for it.
I feel like the Dennis vote is clean.

I’m vibing town on Lucy but there’s some little reasons for doubt.

Also let me add to this that a clean wilgy wagon developing is the wolves wet dream. I'm not sure why any of them would jump on. Having it clean creates such a good opportunity to steer direction, which is exactly why I think it happened.

Reasons are simple : in a wolf Sean world, they obviously want to save their packmate. In a town Sean world, they're hoping to off a potential threat in Wilgy while the opportunity is ripe and they can act like they didn't think it'd go over, and then hope that town wants to flip the counterwagon the next day for the 2 for 1 special.

1) doc was obviously on dennis
2) i'm gonna play more tomorrow cause i'm still frustrated we have had v/v wagons for 2 cycles

Why is that so obvious?

Everyone who has said something about me minus Scotty has said civ. Also it would've made Lucy look really bad after we had our fight, which assuming Lucy is civ would make it obvious to her.

I will be very surprised if the kill target was not me.

By the way, my point in saying this is not 'the kill target was me'.

It's that self-perceiving that you were at risk and that the doc saved you is normal.

But I don't think the answer is obvious. Could be you, could be me, could be someone else. The doc might have saved themselves for all we know.

It's normal for a townie when they have reason to believe wolves think of them as a threat, which can be just felt as a known power town, but after being on two mislim wagons to start you'd think there would be some self-doubt that doc/wolves are prioritizing you.

I could vote soneji independent of my sabi read.

Why?

Approach to Seanzie feels like someone who understands day one more through wolfchat than thread to me

Would you not say that if wolfchat was guiding someone coming into d2, going after Seanzie at the time of my post would be advised against considering there were multiple people defending him and momentum wasn't towards a Seanzie elim?

Do find it amusing that anyone thinks I'm being coached in general.

[Scotty]

[VOTE: Soneji] aubergine

For saying the right things and I find myself nodding along.

I feel like I’ve been wrong a lot this take so far

This is incredibly twisted logic and idk if a civvie would want to second guess themselves so easily.

Twisted as it may be, I mentioned before how if I stop trusting my reads I’ll have to 180. I haven’t really disagreed with most of what Soneji has said this game. I could still be right on, say, lucy, but I second guess a lot

[Scotty]

If that’s been part of why people are so out on ties I understand a bit more now. I’m out on ties or even close votes with that there.

Wait why? What am I missing

[Matahari]

I could vote soneji independent of my sabi read.

Why?

Approach to Seanzie feels like someone who understands day one more through wolfchat than thread to me

I note that I also still feel a little urky lurky about this from soneji

@Soneji noting your later entry to the game, what was your philosophy on entering a thread that was well underway?

No different than normal, as I normally enter later than most regardless.

In the busier part of my work day and sleep deprived, but I'll get to things later tonight. matahari pressure in nice to see, they have the actual wolfiest post I've seen this game with their d1 readslist.

[VOTE: Matahari] aubergine

Can you say why you think my post was the wolfiest you’ve seen? I think I get it, as I don’t notice a lot of that going on. The new way of playing seems to consist of more questioning and a lot of challenging people right out of the gate. I signed up for this game to try and learn stuff about the new way, but I believe it’s going to take a few games before I get used to it. Still, I’ll learn.
Do you see it as wolfy for any reason, other than the difference between old and new?

I’ll try to catch any and all questions directed at me in the order I get them.

[Soneji]

I could vote soneji independent of my sabi read.

Why?

Approach to Seanzie feels like someone who understands day one more through wolfchat than thread to me

I note that I also still feel a little urky lurky about this from soneji

@Soneji noting your later entry to the game, what was your philosophy on entering a thread that was well underway?

No different than normal, as I normally enter later than most regardless.

In the busier part of my work day and sleep deprived, but I'll get to things later tonight. matahari pressure in nice to see, they have the actual wolfiest post I've seen this game with their d1 readslist.

[VOTE: Matahari] aubergine

Can you say why you think my post was the wolfiest you’ve seen? I think I get it, as I don’t notice a lot of that going on. The new way of playing seems to consist of more questioning and a lot of challenging people right out of the gate. I signed up for this game to try and learn stuff about the new way, but I believe it’s going to take a few games before I get used to it. Still, I’ll learn.
Do you see it as wolfy for any reason, other than the difference between old and new?

I’ll try to catch any and all questions directed at me in the order I get them.

This was my reasoning in my original post :

i want to post my thoughts so far, while I have a minute. They are definitely not deep thoughts, but how deep can they be on day 1?
New players get a pass, until later in the game. Absent players, as well.
if I don't mention you, its because I have you as town for now.

Falcon45ca- I didn't find it suspicious that you chose someone quickly because with movable votes, it seems like a lot of players throw votes around in a slap-happy fashion. then you were questioned about it, and you promptly posted quotes for why you made your vote. This looked legit to me at the time. Later it occurred to me that maybe you did all that too quickly, Pre-planned? But someone, Sabiplz, I think, said this was normal for your town game.

Soneji posted, I think, but I'll need to go back and look to make sure. ???

Lucy- so far, is reminding me of Dr. Wilgy. Too random to read, and weird posting just annoys me because I don't know what to do with it. I'd like to hear from players who are familiar with them.

Seanzie made a very risky statement for a town player to make. Or just an 'I can't be bothered' statement. Since it was preceded by an 'Ugh', I'm going with the former.

Sabiplz drew attention to his post, then backed away from it, then said she rarely voted early or often, then 17 minutes later she voted for Seanzie. None of this feels right.

Golden got a vote from Falcon, and although Falcon's reasons would not be enough to convince me to vote someone, I thought they were ok for a day 1. However after post 486 ( I think, I'll go back and check later and do an ebwop if necessary), I have Golden as town.

Marmot, no clue. I'd like to hear what other players think of him. ???

Everyone else, I have as probably town. I have no absolutes this early, but I'm watching the players above who pinged me. I'd like to hear what other players think of my not so deep thoughts, please.

This looks like forced content mixed with a whole lot of fence sitting, given that you gave nothing reads on myself(absent player) and Marmot, and other reads were basically just game recaps with little actual thoughts of your own. The closest to real thoughts here are with sabi who you seem to suspect but don't actually outright point the finger of suspicion at, and with Falcon who you start to sus then back off because you thought you remember it being said it fits their meta(why should you trust sabi's meta on Falcon here, when you seem to sus sabi as well?). The Seanzie "read" is the most amusing to me, since you present their statement as either a risky town statement, or an IDGAF statement, but you never contemplate is as a wolfy statement.


Current suspects :

Seanzie
Matahari
lucy


sabi to a lesser extent, but I've liked their posting outside of their interactions with Marmot

Your posts after this were mostly just reiterating stuff about sabi, and some more game recapping

[fingersplints]

I have limited time today, so I’ll answer what I can but if I miss anything just ask me again.

Reading falcon ISO. He’s asking lots of questions, so could be some good genuine solving. I think he’s ok for now

What made you pick falcons iso? The letter F?

I have wrongfully suspected falcon many times in the past year, and have also been wrongfully suspected by falcon a lot in the past year. I even joked about it by saying he loved to vote for me earlier in the game. I feel like I may finally have learned how to read him, but that’s why I started there. Someone with a not too big ISO who I thought I could make an opinion on fairly quickly.

[fingersplints]

I'mma unvote in a minute if nothing changes

Uhh keep in mind a tie is a no elim

So I kind of like here that Seanzie didn’t want the tie, but then the second post. I’m making assumptions based on the final vote, but it would have seemed to be tied here wilgy 5 - Sean 5. Wouldn’t his “unvote” make him be eliminated? I’m all for the “info is better than no info” (it’s why I hate the sleep option) but if you are town wouldn’t it be better (in your opinion) for anyone to be eliminated other than you who you know is town? The suspicious part of me is wondering about Seanzie’s motive for this

What does the suspicious part of you think Seanzie's motive was?

That maybe he’s mafia? I’m not sure what clarification you are looking for here

[fingersplints]

One interesting thing in splints iso is that they ask who they should iso next, SVS offers sabi as a possibility for a fresh perspective, and splints doesn't do it.

I think SVS's choice of sabi was actually a very strong one, and her logic sound, and town splints perspective on sabi would have been valuable (and was urgent in the sense that it's too late now).

I dunno whether I think this is AI or just splints not having the time to follow through. Have to mull on that.

I ran out of time. I made it through only like 1/10 of yours too

[fingersplints]

1) doc was obviously on dennis
2) i'm gonna play more tomorrow cause i'm still frustrated we have had v/v wagons for 2 cycles

Why is that so obvious?

Everyone who has said something about me minus Scotty has said civ. Also it would've made Lucy look really bad after we had our fight, which assuming Lucy is civ would make it obvious to her.

I will be very surprised if the kill target was not me.

Not if Lucy had anything to do with it. And I still think she did. Her vote yestetday and wanting to eliminate a low poster.

Gun to head, my call for bad team is Lucy, Soneji and one of Splints or Mata, maybe Neon.

I think Bea would have been replaced already if she were bad, and Rox has a certain tone when she’s bad, especially if someone has spoken nastily to her. Last night after Lucy called her “Fucking Roxy”, she responded pretty calmly to it. It’s a long time since we’ve played together and I could be 100% wrong since this is a tone read. But that sharp element she has when bad is missing.

I think seanzie is right re lucy - I think we should let the cop/deputy deal with it. Or at least give her some space to get to play freely and see what comes, she's been under constant suspicion since the start, and I think it is inevitable that she effectively solves her own slot from here one way or the other.

I don’t plan on ignoring suspicions in case a cop wants to check them at some point. You could argue “the cop could solve it” at any suspicion then

[fingersplints]

Some more groups

SVS/Kate - Vocal old friends

SVS is town. OK, SVS can fool the hell out of me and maybe she isn't town, but if I was forced to bet my life on someone being town I'd pick SVS at the moment. SVS, if you're bad, I will not ever be able to bet my life on your alignment.
Kate is probably town. Less certain there though. I ordinarily vibe more with Kate, in terms of having a similar view of the game, than I am here.

I would likely push hard to lynch someone else in alternative to either SVS or Kate today.

Soneji/neon Recent appearances

I feel I need to pay attention to these two today. I have a 'soneji could be bad' vibe but it's not based on much. I have an 'I like neon's entry' vibe but that's not based on much either. I feel like either of these people could be bad with anyone except maybe the soneji/sean pairing.

Roxy/mata/splints/bea - less vocal old friends

To be honest, any of this group could be bad, and if my town leans are right chances are there is at least one baddie here. All of them can happily sit within my PoE for now. However, I've ordered them from most likely to be town to least likely to be town based purely on what they've shown in the thread so far.

I like what I've seen from Roxy, bar her 'I'm catching up on the thread' post which is a statement that I think wolfleans on average (but people from both sides say it). I like her healthy eye on me, and I've liked her reads.

Mata tends to be quiet and perceptive. She's definitely on the quieter side here, even for her, although I do wonder if noise is relative to the post count. We used to have quieter games full stop.

I townread fingersplints from day one last game. She's made no real impression on me here. Now, that might be because I was wolf last game (although I was trying to approach day one reads from the perspective of 'if I was town', but I can't be sure that's not flawed). Or maybe there's a gut thing there.

Bea just simply hasn't had the time to contribute enough to start with a read yet.

I do find this to be a weird post to even make about me though

To paraphrase “When I was on the only mafia team in the last game I played with splints I townread her the only day she even played in said game” lol

I wouldn’t say I’m regularly town read day 1. It usually becomes p obvious within a few days, but not that early. I always struggle to get into games but especially these days

[fingersplints]

Lol it’s all responses to Golden. If there was anyone else

That’s all I have time for now

[Matahari]

@Soneji thank you. I get why you find my thoughts at that point in the game seeming to be something they were not. I also mentioned that I had no very deep thoughts at that point, only things I noticed and wanted to keep an eye on. And I asked for feedback on those things, so I could consider opinions from players I trust, and also to see if anyone might try to run interference, to add to my notes. It’s just how I played years ago, and I think in future games, I won’t be doing that anymore. I’ll just ask direct questions to the players who raise an eyebrow, even though it goes against the grain- seems like targeting civs which used to be a no-no.

@Dennis you mentioned that I might have an rl reason for low posting or being inactive. Yes, I mentioned earlier that I was sick. Pisses me off to no end because I was so excited about playing again. But I’m up and around now and I’ll be as present as I can. The flip side of this is that I am usually a low poster, but I start speaking up once I start getting some real vibes. That usually happens by day 3 or 4.

[Seanzie]

I'mma unvote in a minute if nothing changes

Uhh keep in mind a tie is a no elim

So I kind of like here that Seanzie didn’t want the tie, but then the second post. I’m making assumptions based on the final vote, but it would have seemed to be tied here wilgy 5 - Sean 5. Wouldn’t his “unvote” make him be eliminated? I’m all for the “info is better than no info” (it’s why I hate the sleep option) but if you are town wouldn’t it be better (in your opinion) for anyone to be eliminated other than you who you know is town? The suspicious part of me is wondering about Seanzie’s motive for this

What does the suspicious part of you think Seanzie's motive was?

That maybe he’s mafia? I’m not sure what clarification you are looking for here

what is the mafia motive for saying I was going to unvote to avoid a tie? How does it help mafia!Seanzie? Walk me through that.

[fingersplints]

I'mma unvote in a minute if nothing changes

Uhh keep in mind a tie is a no elim

So I kind of like here that Seanzie didn’t want the tie, but then the second post. I’m making assumptions based on the final vote, but it would have seemed to be tied here wilgy 5 - Sean 5. Wouldn’t his “unvote” make him be eliminated? I’m all for the “info is better than no info” (it’s why I hate the sleep option) but if you are town wouldn’t it be better (in your opinion) for anyone to be eliminated other than you who you know is town? The suspicious part of me is wondering about Seanzie’s motive for this

What does the suspicious part of you think Seanzie's motive was?

That maybe he’s mafia? I’m not sure what clarification you are looking for here

what is the mafia motive for saying I was going to unvote to avoid a tie? How does it help mafia!Seanzie? Walk me through that.

I don’t understand the motive for unvoting. That’s pretty much what my original point was that I didn’t understand how as a town it was a good move. I don’t see the benefit

[Kate]

The argument has been that Sean would have killed himself so the town would at least get the info from his claimed civ flip. There was an argument in the thread about whether a tie or a civ lynch was worse. Sean thinks a tie is worse.

[Kate]

I'mma unvote in a minute if nothing changes

Uhh keep in mind a tie is a no elim

So I kind of like here that Seanzie didn’t want the tie, but then the second post. I’m making assumptions based on the final vote, but it would have seemed to be tied here wilgy 5 - Sean 5. Wouldn’t his “unvote” make him be eliminated? I’m all for the “info is better than no info” (it’s why I hate the sleep option) but if you are town wouldn’t it be better (in your opinion) for anyone to be eliminated other than you who you know is town? The suspicious part of me is wondering about Seanzie’s motive for this

What does the suspicious part of you think Seanzie's motive was?

That maybe he’s mafia? I’m not sure what clarification you are looking for here

what is the mafia motive for saying I was going to unvote to avoid a tie? How does it help mafia!Seanzie? Walk me through that.

Saying it and doing it are NOT the same thing. You were trying to avoid getting lynched and it worked, regardless of alignment.

[fingersplints]

I mean I get that info is better, but I don’t think I’d ever choose “info for the thread” over “me”

[Scotty]

I'm still reading through parts of the thread but I want to bring forth a thought on the set-up that could certainly have an effect on wolves mindset in this game. I didn't see wolves win condition listed anywhere but assuming it's to reach vote parity, or even just killing all town, then so long as all three members are alive then they win as soon as there are only five town members left due to being able to vote silence two townies each night. At that point town can only tie elim votes, so has no path to winning.

So more than normal wolves will want to ensure all members make it to endgame, and keeping the Lawyer alive is top priority as even with just one other wolf they lower the number needed for vote parity. Bussing is very unlikely, and hard defenses of packmates very likely.

If anyone brought this up before now, then a cookie for them.

cookie for you. I didn’t think of this and I think this is an excellent point. Town cred for you

[VOTE: splints] aubergine

[Golden]

Got through almost all posts in game, will be somewhat around rest of day but have a D&D session then will be watching football, so divided focus.

Gone back to read it again:

Kate - holy bad countertrain, wtf guys.
Sabi - Sean, golden, SVS or Lucy contains a wolf. Also, ties are bad.
Scotty = not committing, sure looks like a seanzie save to me. Rejects "SVS is obvtown" arguments.

Dennis - "with marmot dead, I'm not certain how to read the Wilgy wagon"
Seanzie - "not gonna dome sabi, that's derailing the thread, also SVS is obvitown"
SVS - Just explains her thinking

Instinct says Kate might just be caught up in that first bundle, it's not like examination of that group is bad. But it's quite central to why scotty and sabi are forefront of my mind today.

Conversely, the bottom group (people on the wilgy train) don't try to control the narrative at all.

The first group is rightly calling for accountability from the Wilgy voters, while the second has every reason to not want to rock the boat. Dennis is a newbie, what narrative is he going to try and control? Plus several players rushed to proclaim him townie for his EoD. Seanzie just narrowly escaped the noose, of course they'd avoid a thunder dome. SVS does look good from how they explained their vote, and how they wanted a tie.

I find the bolded rather amusing as controlling the narrative has been a large part of your play this game, including this post.

If at least one of scotty and sabi isn’t a wolf I’ll bite my hat twice.

One down, one to go. Don't see a Scotty push so far this day though, curious.

I don’t get it. In what world is mafia Sean threatening to unvote wilgy and elim himself just no ensure an elim if he’s bad.

Threatening to do it and actually doing it are two VERY different things.

I just can’t square away a Seanzie wolf read at all at this point. I think there isn’t a single aspect of his game that makes sense as wolf.

What about his unvote on sabi when it was 5-3? Like, that’s basically the same thing as what he threatened to do, and he actually did it.

-He racked up a ton of votes by midday and no one was seemingly budging
-He refused to offer alternatives with any merit or explanation
-He remained aloof and simultaneously snippy at times
-His unvoting means nothing because he was already in the lead looking to croak. But doing so broadcasts “I’m not afraid to die, come at me” which is legitimate gambit that I see mafia do all the time.

But yeah; there’s not a single aspect of his game that makes sense as wolf

Dude...

Scotty: Seanzie, Who is a good alternative? Sabi? Me?

Me: You apparently already know what my answer would be.

Scotty: Seanzie won't give an alternative.

Think for a second, what did I actually say to your question?

I’ve been down this path with you before. Time is a circle jfc

When I go to the doctor for a pain in my chest, I don’t want the doctor to ask me what I think the problem is.

I offered you the chance yesterday to do some casing and alternative names, and offered a few names that I was assuming you suspected. Your response was very similar to this one.

This is how I get prescribed liver medication for my plaque psoriasis

This is my new favorite post in this game

Townie feeling frustration

I just can’t square away a Seanzie wolf read at all at this point. I think there isn’t a single aspect of his game that makes sense as wolf.

What about his unvote on sabi when it was 5-3? Like, that’s basically the same thing as what he threatened to do, and he actually did it.

-He racked up a ton of votes by midday and no one was seemingly budging
-He refused to offer alternatives with any merit or explanation
-He remained aloof and simultaneously snippy at times
-His unvoting means nothing because he was already in the lead looking to croak. But doing so broadcasts “I’m not afraid to die, come at me” which is legitimate gambit that I see mafia do all the time.

But yeah; there’s not a single aspect of his game that makes sense as wolf

Is this last sentence sarcasm, just to be clear?

Not at all

I used sarcastic orange for that statement by the by

Not gonna lie I'm still confused. Do you think Seanzie is doing things that make sense as wolf or not?

Sorry. My sarcasm was coming on strong.

It was a response to Golden not finding a single shred of evidence that Seanzie could be wolf, and I was listing legitimately wolfy things that one could stop and go “yeah, that doesn’t sound towny”

Whether or not I think he is wolf at the present? Im not sure. Leaning not? I think a lot of those could just be Seanzie. I have horrible memory and don’t remember if that is behavior he normally exhibits as town

Yeah it comes off rather disingenuous to act as if there are no valid reasons to suspect Seanzie.

My gut says the wilgy wagon is 100% clean

Oh, it's a gut read. Duly noted

Yeah, I have said if one isbad its Lucy.

Marmot is flipped
I know it’s not me
Seanzie is my top town at this point
SVS is also my top town at this point. They’re fighting for it.
I feel like the Dennis vote is clean.

I’m vibing town on Lucy but there’s some little reasons for doubt.

Also let me add to this that a clean wilgy wagon developing is the wolves wet dream. I'm not sure why any of them would jump on. Having it clean creates such a good opportunity to steer direction, which is exactly why I think it happened.

Reasons are simple : in a wolf Sean world, they obviously want to save their packmate. In a town Sean world, they're hoping to off a potential threat in Wilgy while the opportunity is ripe and they can act like they didn't think it'd go over, and then hope that town wants to flip the counterwagon the next day for the 2 for 1 special.

1) doc was obviously on dennis
2) i'm gonna play more tomorrow cause i'm still frustrated we have had v/v wagons for 2 cycles

Why is that so obvious?

Everyone who has said something about me minus Scotty has said civ. Also it would've made Lucy look really bad after we had our fight, which assuming Lucy is civ would make it obvious to her.

I will be very surprised if the kill target was not me.

By the way, my point in saying this is not 'the kill target was me'.

It's that self-perceiving that you were at risk and that the doc saved you is normal.

But I don't think the answer is obvious. Could be you, could be me, could be someone else. The doc might have saved themselves for all we know.

It's normal for a townie when they have reason to believe wolves think of them as a threat, which can be just felt as a known power town, but after being on two mislim wagons to start you'd think there would be some self-doubt that doc/wolves are prioritizing you.

I could vote soneji independent of my sabi read.

Why?

Approach to Seanzie feels like someone who understands day one more through wolfchat than thread to me

Would you not say that if wolfchat was guiding someone coming into d2, going after Seanzie at the time of my post would be advised against considering there were multiple people defending him and momentum wasn't towards a Seanzie elim?

Do find it amusing that anyone thinks I'm being coached in general.

Pingy ping ping pingy ping

[Scotty]

Got through almost all posts in game, will be somewhat around rest of day but have a D&D session then will be watching football, so divided focus.

Gone back to read it again:

Kate - holy bad countertrain, wtf guys.
Sabi - Sean, golden, SVS or Lucy contains a wolf. Also, ties are bad.
Scotty = not committing, sure looks like a seanzie save to me. Rejects "SVS is obvtown" arguments.

Dennis - "with marmot dead, I'm not certain how to read the Wilgy wagon"
Seanzie - "not gonna dome sabi, that's derailing the thread, also SVS is obvitown"
SVS - Just explains her thinking

Instinct says Kate might just be caught up in that first bundle, it's not like examination of that group is bad. But it's quite central to why scotty and sabi are forefront of my mind today.

Conversely, the bottom group (people on the wilgy train) don't try to control the narrative at all.

The first group is rightly calling for accountability from the Wilgy voters, while the second has every reason to not want to rock the boat. Dennis is a newbie, what narrative is he going to try and control? Plus several players rushed to proclaim him townie for his EoD. Seanzie just narrowly escaped the noose, of course they'd avoid a thunder dome. SVS does look good from how they explained their vote, and how they wanted a tie.

I find the bolded rather amusing as controlling the narrative has been a large part of your play this game, including this post.

If at least one of scotty and sabi isn’t a wolf I’ll bite my hat twice.

One down, one to go. Don't see a Scotty push so far this day though, curious.

Threatening to do it and actually doing it are two VERY different things.

I just can’t square away a Seanzie wolf read at all at this point. I think there isn’t a single aspect of his game that makes sense as wolf.

What about his unvote on sabi when it was 5-3? Like, that’s basically the same thing as what he threatened to do, and he actually did it.

-He racked up a ton of votes by midday and no one was seemingly budging
-He refused to offer alternatives with any merit or explanation
-He remained aloof and simultaneously snippy at times
-His unvoting means nothing because he was already in the lead looking to croak. But doing so broadcasts “I’m not afraid to die, come at me” which is legitimate gambit that I see mafia do all the time.

But yeah; there’s not a single aspect of his game that makes sense as wolf

Dude...

Scotty: Seanzie, Who is a good alternative? Sabi? Me?

Me: You apparently already know what my answer would be.

Scotty: Seanzie won't give an alternative.

Think for a second, what did I actually say to your question?

I’ve been down this path with you before. Time is a circle jfc

When I go to the doctor for a pain in my chest, I don’t want the doctor to ask me what I think the problem is.

I offered you the chance yesterday to do some casing and alternative names, and offered a few names that I was assuming you suspected. Your response was very similar to this one.

This is how I get prescribed liver medication for my plaque psoriasis

This is my new favorite post in this game

Townie feeling frustration

-He racked up a ton of votes by midday and no one was seemingly budging
-He refused to offer alternatives with any merit or explanation
-He remained aloof and simultaneously snippy at times
-His unvoting means nothing because he was already in the lead looking to croak. But doing so broadcasts “I’m not afraid to die, come at me” which is legitimate gambit that I see mafia do all the time.

But yeah; there’s not a single aspect of his game that makes sense as wolf

Is this last sentence sarcasm, just to be clear?

Not at all

I used sarcastic orange for that statement by the by

Not gonna lie I'm still confused. Do you think Seanzie is doing things that make sense as wolf or not?

Sorry. My sarcasm was coming on strong.

It was a response to Golden not finding a single shred of evidence that Seanzie could be wolf, and I was listing legitimately wolfy things that one could stop and go “yeah, that doesn’t sound towny”

Whether or not I think he is wolf at the present? Im not sure. Leaning not? I think a lot of those could just be Seanzie. I have horrible memory and don’t remember if that is behavior he normally exhibits as town

Yeah it comes off rather disingenuous to act as if there are no valid reasons to suspect Seanzie.

My gut says the wilgy wagon is 100% clean

Oh, it's a gut read. Duly noted

Yeah, I have said if one isbad its Lucy.

Marmot is flipped
I know it’s not me
Seanzie is my top town at this point
SVS is also my top town at this point. They’re fighting for it.
I feel like the Dennis vote is clean.

I’m vibing town on Lucy but there’s some little reasons for doubt.

Also let me add to this that a clean wilgy wagon developing is the wolves wet dream. I'm not sure why any of them would jump on. Having it clean creates such a good opportunity to steer direction, which is exactly why I think it happened.

Reasons are simple : in a wolf Sean world, they obviously want to save their packmate. In a town Sean world, they're hoping to off a potential threat in Wilgy while the opportunity is ripe and they can act like they didn't think it'd go over, and then hope that town wants to flip the counterwagon the next day for the 2 for 1 special.

1) doc was obviously on dennis
2) i'm gonna play more tomorrow cause i'm still frustrated we have had v/v wagons for 2 cycles

Why is that so obvious?

Everyone who has said something about me minus Scotty has said civ. Also it would've made Lucy look really bad after we had our fight, which assuming Lucy is civ would make it obvious to her.

I will be very surprised if the kill target was not me.

By the way, my point in saying this is not 'the kill target was me'.

It's that self-perceiving that you were at risk and that the doc saved you is normal.

But I don't think the answer is obvious. Could be you, could be me, could be someone else. The doc might have saved themselves for all we know.

It's normal for a townie when they have reason to believe wolves think of them as a threat, which can be just felt as a known power town, but after being on two mislim wagons to start you'd think there would be some self-doubt that doc/wolves are prioritizing you.

I could vote soneji independent of my sabi read.

Why?

Approach to Seanzie feels like someone who understands day one more through wolfchat than thread to me

Would you not say that if wolfchat was guiding someone coming into d2, going after Seanzie at the time of my post would be advised against considering there were multiple people defending him and momentum wasn't towards a Seanzie elim?

Do find it amusing that anyone thinks I'm being coached in general.

Pingy ping ping pingy ping

What’s pingy about it?

I found myself nodding along with it, like I’ve seemed to do with most of Soneji’s posts this game

[Golden]

Boy does this post go a long way down the path of trying to get people not to listen to what I’m saying… creating some big straw men there.

So my ‘sabi or scotty’ post is both steering the thread but also curiously I’m not pushing for Scotty today. Hmm, very curious.

And there’s a straw man against why wilgys vote train being clean wouldn’t be mafia’s wet dream. Really, you don’t think so? You don’t think they’d love it if day two focussed on a wagon full of civs? Or do you just prefer my idea is discounted?

[Scotty]

I don’t mind the Mata votes.

From my cursory glance, the input this game has been:
“Here are some shallow reads on D1”
“Criticism of my game is fair, I’m here to respond if anyone wants me”


Obviously I’m excluding a bunch of posts but this is my perception without ISOing

[Scotty]

I think bea’s being pretty genuine here. I’ll give her a Townlean

[Golden]

Got through almost all posts in game, will be somewhat around rest of day but have a D&D session then will be watching football, so divided focus.

Gone back to read it again:

Kate - holy bad countertrain, wtf guys.
Sabi - Sean, golden, SVS or Lucy contains a wolf. Also, ties are bad.
Scotty = not committing, sure looks like a seanzie save to me. Rejects "SVS is obvtown" arguments.

Dennis - "with marmot dead, I'm not certain how to read the Wilgy wagon"
Seanzie - "not gonna dome sabi, that's derailing the thread, also SVS is obvitown"
SVS - Just explains her thinking

Instinct says Kate might just be caught up in that first bundle, it's not like examination of that group is bad. But it's quite central to why scotty and sabi are forefront of my mind today.

Conversely, the bottom group (people on the wilgy train) don't try to control the narrative at all.

The first group is rightly calling for accountability from the Wilgy voters, while the second has every reason to not want to rock the boat. Dennis is a newbie, what narrative is he going to try and control? Plus several players rushed to proclaim him townie for his EoD. Seanzie just narrowly escaped the noose, of course they'd avoid a thunder dome. SVS does look good from how they explained their vote, and how they wanted a tie.

I find the bolded rather amusing as controlling the narrative has been a large part of your play this game, including this post.

If at least one of scotty and sabi isn’t a wolf I’ll bite my hat twice.

One down, one to go. Don't see a Scotty push so far this day though, curious.

I just can’t square away a Seanzie wolf read at all at this point. I think there isn’t a single aspect of his game that makes sense as wolf.

What about his unvote on sabi when it was 5-3? Like, that’s basically the same thing as what he threatened to do, and he actually did it.

-He racked up a ton of votes by midday and no one was seemingly budging
-He refused to offer alternatives with any merit or explanation
-He remained aloof and simultaneously snippy at times
-His unvoting means nothing because he was already in the lead looking to croak. But doing so broadcasts “I’m not afraid to die, come at me” which is legitimate gambit that I see mafia do all the time.

But yeah; there’s not a single aspect of his game that makes sense as wolf

Dude...

Scotty: Seanzie, Who is a good alternative? Sabi? Me?

Me: You apparently already know what my answer would be.

Scotty: Seanzie won't give an alternative.

Think for a second, what did I actually say to your question?

I’ve been down this path with you before. Time is a circle jfc

When I go to the doctor for a pain in my chest, I don’t want the doctor to ask me what I think the problem is.

I offered you the chance yesterday to do some casing and alternative names, and offered a few names that I was assuming you suspected. Your response was very similar to this one.

This is how I get prescribed liver medication for my plaque psoriasis

This is my new favorite post in this game

Townie feeling frustration

Is this last sentence sarcasm, just to be clear?

Not at all

I used sarcastic orange for that statement by the by

Not gonna lie I'm still confused. Do you think Seanzie is doing things that make sense as wolf or not?

Sorry. My sarcasm was coming on strong.

It was a response to Golden not finding a single shred of evidence that Seanzie could be wolf, and I was listing legitimately wolfy things that one could stop and go “yeah, that doesn’t sound towny”

Whether or not I think he is wolf at the present? Im not sure. Leaning not? I think a lot of those could just be Seanzie. I have horrible memory and don’t remember if that is behavior he normally exhibits as town

Yeah it comes off rather disingenuous to act as if there are no valid reasons to suspect Seanzie.

My gut says the wilgy wagon is 100% clean

Oh, it's a gut read. Duly noted

Yeah, I have said if one isbad its Lucy.

Marmot is flipped
I know it’s not me
Seanzie is my top town at this point
SVS is also my top town at this point. They’re fighting for it.
I feel like the Dennis vote is clean.

I’m vibing town on Lucy but there’s some little reasons for doubt.

Also let me add to this that a clean wilgy wagon developing is the wolves wet dream. I'm not sure why any of them would jump on. Having it clean creates such a good opportunity to steer direction, which is exactly why I think it happened.

Reasons are simple : in a wolf Sean world, they obviously want to save their packmate. In a town Sean world, they're hoping to off a potential threat in Wilgy while the opportunity is ripe and they can act like they didn't think it'd go over, and then hope that town wants to flip the counterwagon the next day for the 2 for 1 special.

Why is that so obvious?

Everyone who has said something about me minus Scotty has said civ. Also it would've made Lucy look really bad after we had our fight, which assuming Lucy is civ would make it obvious to her.

I will be very surprised if the kill target was not me.

By the way, my point in saying this is not 'the kill target was me'.

It's that self-perceiving that you were at risk and that the doc saved you is normal.

But I don't think the answer is obvious. Could be you, could be me, could be someone else. The doc might have saved themselves for all we know.

It's normal for a townie when they have reason to believe wolves think of them as a threat, which can be just felt as a known power town, but after being on two mislim wagons to start you'd think there would be some self-doubt that doc/wolves are prioritizing you.

I could vote soneji independent of my sabi read.

Why?

Approach to Seanzie feels like someone who understands day one more through wolfchat than thread to me

Would you not say that if wolfchat was guiding someone coming into d2, going after Seanzie at the time of my post would be advised against considering there were multiple people defending him and momentum wasn't towards a Seanzie elim?

Do find it amusing that anyone thinks I'm being coached in general.

Pingy ping ping pingy ping

What’s pingy about it?

I found myself nodding along with it, like I’ve seemed to do with most of Soneji’s posts this game

It has exactly one purpose:

“Don’t listen to golden, he’s miseliming civs, stuff he says is probably bad”

Most of all, ‘nah, golden, you weren’t the kill target’ well fuckity fuck fuck fuck, why even go there?

Only… come on soneji, tell me who the wolf is on the wilgy wagon?

[robyn]

i'd just like to take a moment to say that you're very curvaceous @Scotty

[robyn]

1) doc was obviously on dennis
2) i'm gonna play more tomorrow cause i'm still frustrated we have had v/v wagons for 2 cycles

I'm inclined to agree with 1.

Sorry I think that's partially my bad. I got a wee bit frustrated and that probably came off aggressive when I couldn't understand you but it's just different ways of thinking so, sorry.

all good, glad we finally agree