Monopoly Mafia [GAME OVER]

[Boogs]

Boogs, I asked you to point out what specifically you agreed with on Llama's case yesterday, maybe you didn't see it.

I would love to vote TH after the argument Llama showed, however with me not having time to keep up today, I will vote Hedge for a chance on her card.

Which part of llama's case on me did you like?

How you were persistent to win the Utility which a partner would do, and how you went 180 on BWT with how you felt on voting him. I think you are Water Works, TH.

You basically were like "Let me prove im good! Look at me!" When BWT was lynched and you latched on to quickly try to get attention on me. It felt fake and like you were blending to gain Cred because you knew your teammate was going down and you would be alone.

[Boogs]

I didn't do a 180 on BWT, that's simply not true and it's not part of Llamas case.

You bid on Electric Company too, Boogs.

Yes, I did. However I didn't win Elctric Company and you lied you say you didn't. Then you try to make it seem like I was lying and I had some secret votes on it. Sorry but I had no way of gaining an extra 200+ even if it were true I had something secret. Nothing would have given me that. I was hoping to outbid people and that any BWT voters didn't want it so I could get a card and maybe learn roles and get my teammates finally with it.

[Boogs]

Just totally felt to me you were grasping anything to keep your head above water and keep attention off yourself when your teammate, BWT, died. I really feel strongly you are Water works.

[Turnip Head]

Boogs, I asked you to point out what specifically you agreed with on Llama's case yesterday, maybe you didn't see it.

I would love to vote TH after the argument Llama showed, however with me not having time to keep up today, I will vote Hedge for a chance on her card.

Which part of llama's case on me did you like?

How you were persistent to win the Utility which a partner would do, and how you went 180 on BWT with how you felt on voting him. I think you are Water Works, TH.

You basically were like "Let me prove im good! Look at me!" When BWT was lynched and you latched on to quickly try to get attention on me. It felt fake and like you were blending to gain Cred because you knew your teammate was going down and you would be alone.

Literally none of those things are true. I was literally the first person to agree with Epi's case on BWT. I continued to push the case on BWT while others ignored it, go back and read the context, BWT was not being discussed much but I tried to keep the attention on him. I did not "latch on" to anything to get attention on you Boogs, in fact during the BWT lynch I did the exact opposite and defended you. In fact, I defended every major lynch candidate on Day 3 EXCEPT for BWT.

I've said all this before but I'm starting to think you never read my rebuttal to Llama's case.

[fingersplints]

I wasn't the one who presented the case, it was Llama and i agreed he was right. You can click the link of his case he provided above here and read it yourself too if you forgot the case.

I plan on reading it which is why I asked for it. The point I am trying to make that was if you really believed TH was bad you would have answered my question when I asked it. By the time llama answered it you had posted 6 times about other things.
I like how you are already trying to make it clear you did not present the case though. Already trying to shift blame, eh?

[zeek]

I can post again And I actually survived past N4

[S~V~S]

Llama, In all your case sounds like an orators case; I see the passion, can visualize the big gestures, and the fist banging on the table, but the evidence, not so much. I can get with that though, and am not faulting you on it, since it is the kind of case I generally make as well, except I leave out the quotes. You say voting late is damning, but like TH says, he ALWAYS votes late, so it is harder to read nefarious intent into it in one particular instance. And tbh, I also thought it weird that Daisy, someone who purportedly has no clue what is going on just comes in the thread and drops a vote on someone for no reason, when, as you say, it was not a given at that point that he would be lynched. WTF? Why is it suspicious that TH wants to know about that? I did not agree with his thoughts on LC, but disagreeing with me does not make him bad.

He bid on Electric Company, although he screwed it up, and his vote gave him a $200 boost. Water Works has the most incentive to bid on Electric Company.

Well I meant to outbid Boogs on Electric Company but my dumbass didn't increase the bid to $11. So boogs has Electric Company.

So Llama, then this particular part of your argument, the only part I found really compelling, tbh, could also apply to Boogs. Do you think so as well; that only since Water Works has the best incentive to bid on Electric Company, that it is also possible for Boogs to be WW?

Boogs, you are sounding a bit desperate to me, and I read back on the things you said that TH refuted, and he is right. He pushed pretty hard to lynch BWT. Your answers to him are making me suspect him less, tbh, not more.

I wasn't the one who presented the case, it was Llama and i agreed he was right. You can click the link of his case he provided above here and read it yourself too if you forgot the case.

I plan on reading it which is why I asked for it. The point I am trying to make that was if you really believed TH was bad you would have answered my question when I asked it. By the time llama answered it you had posted 6 times about other things.
I like how you are already trying to make it clear you did not present the case though. Already trying to shift blame, eh?

This is also a good point.

I had a busy weekend~ but kept up reading. I intend to reread both TH & Boogs a bit harder.

[S~V~S]

Wow, Splintsy. Wow.

Yes. I can thank my wonderful husband for that. I even outbid myself once there in the craziness of trying to win that

Another good result. BIH Penn. Railroad Bye hedgie

boo, is there any way we can know who else is being replaced still?
I'm thinking maybe Ash. or SD

Here's my thinking on it: I have an event I would like to do for the only resurrects that will be in the game. That means I need dead players who actually have an interest in coming back, which means if we keep bringing in dead players to fill replacements, it just won't happen, and (if we're not already there) we're quickly reaching the point where it just isn't feasible to expect a new player to be able to come in and really catch up and get into the game. So, I am considering for players who want to be replaced now and in the future to just be pseudo-killed off, with their properties going up for auction. My problem there is disadvantaging their potential teammates if it's a public auction, which makes me lean towards wanting to do this, but having those bids be private, and perhaps a bonus to teammates of the people leaving the game to give them a better chance of remaining competitive in the game.

I'm open to discussion on this, but at this point it's the best solution I can come up with.

In the short-term though, my preference would be to not name the people who want to be replaced since in my hosting view, a person isn't out of the game until their actually out of the game, and discussing things like who wants to be replaced changes how people may play things, which is a level of influence I prefer to avoid (although given this scenario I suppose that's kind of a lose/lose situation going on).

At this point I would rather have no rezzes since most of the dead are bad. Day one we lynched a baddie, night one SVS died and has now replaced in (can't be rezzed). Day two we lynched a civvie that wanted out (will likely not come back), night 2 they killed me and I have replaced in and can't be rezzed. Day three we lynched a baddie, night 3 fail kill on a baddie. Day 4 lynched a baddie. So when is this event planned for? Anytime soon we are going to get a baddie back.

Also, I agree with this 100%.

And I don't like modkills myself. Make the baddies work for their dinner~ they need everyone dead to win, let them NK them; modkills make the baddies lives easier. Or conversely, let Llama lynch them. Or the LMS teams can lynch them.

[thellama73]

What do you feel about Boogs? Do you think he can be a utility?

If TH is a Utility, which I think he is, then Boogs cannot be one. I admit that the case on him is good though. I just prefer my own case on TH.

So Llama, then this particular part of your argument, the only part I found really compelling, tbh, could also apply to Boogs. Do you think so as well; that only since Water Works has the best incentive to bid on Electric Company, that it is also possible for Boogs to be WW?

Yes, you are absolutely right. This part of the case applies equally to Boogs, and if I am wrong about the rest of my case, Boogs could be WW. I still think TH is more likely.

[Marmot]

I can post again And I actually survived past N4

Congrats!

I didn't know there was a silence power out.

[zeek]

So, whats the focus for today? Finding the last utility?

I didn't know there was a silence power out.

There isn't. I was in jail.

[thellama73]

I didn't know there was a silence power out.

There isn't. I was in jail.

How was it?

[zeek]

Lonely. Guess my crimes against fashion finally caught up with me.

[Tangrowth]

I'm so sorry to boo and all the players. My schedule has been insane. I've managed to catch up now, but I did quickly read the last however many pages since sometime Night 3. So here are my thoughts:

The fact that both the Reds and Light Blues gained a monopoly tells me my Llama and LC theory was TOTALLY dead on. However, this means they are likely LMS groups and not railroads. I don't know about the Epig and LC theory being floated around by MM but I'm not seeing it.

Nice job on Hedgeowl. I would have voted the same since there was no reason for her to survive.

I think Epig's case on Boogs is very good and I will likely be voting that way today. The fact that Boogs is latching onto Llama's case against TH now makes me wonder if I was wrong about him being a misguided civvie. I think the case could be made that he is an opportunistic baddie. Nonetheless, I think what Epig observed is very excellent and there's little doubt in my mind that he's connected to BWT.

I don't agree with Llama's case on TH. I've been getting civvie vibes from him, personally, but I could be wrong.

The only item that even gives me any pause against the Boogs case is the fact that there was no NK last night. That's odd. So if we lynch Boogs and he isn't Water Works, it must be one of the four quieter players TH mentioned, I would think. The WIFOM involved in skipping a kill doesn't seem to pass the cost-benefit analysis, IMO, so I don't think anyone would do it on purpose. Thoughts?

If it weren't for the case against Boogs, I'd like to find a railroad, but not sure where to start with that. LC and Llama I still really strongly feel need to go, but I'm willing to wait just a bit on them for now.

[Tangrowth]

Voting Boogs

For now, especially since my schedule has been crazy. Be back later!

[juliets]

MP, thoughts on your 1 concern about boogs i.e., nobody killed last night. TH could have protected but i doubt it. Boogs has a deflect but that would have just meant the kill would have gone to a person other than what was targeted. I didn't see any other powers that have gone up for sale that would help. However, the random powers had a protect, a roleblock and then someone who got two of the powers offered one which might have been one of those two. Those powers i have down as Day 4 so they were either given out N3 or beginning of D4. The random powers were available with the board movements day 4 morning. So, I think this is a possibility though i dont know how probable it is.

[juliets]

I forgot to mention that I also see Epi's case as a good one and I will give Boogs a good hard look today.

[thellama73]

Alex, I have found none of my like-colored brethren, and I am very frustrated by this. More people need to be searching me.

[LoRab]

Is it possible that after Hedge, Boo decided to not include target names on failed kills? In order to even things up a bit? I suppose I could just ask that question...

@Boo: Do the targets of failed kill attempts always appear in posts?

At the moment, I'm more swayed by the case on Boogs than I am by the case on TH. But I'll reread a bit and think more closely before votiing.

[Epignosis]

I didn't do a 180 on BWT, that's simply not true and it's not part of Llamas case.

You bid on Electric Company too, Boogs.

Yes, I did. However I didn't win Elctric Company and you lied you say you didn't. Then you try to make it seem like I was lying and I had some secret votes on it. Sorry but I had no way of gaining an extra 200+ even if it were true I had something secret. Nothing would have given me that. I was hoping to outbid people and that any BWT voters didn't want it so I could get a card and maybe learn roles and get my teammates finally with it.

When Boogs bid, DF and Lorab already had Boogs outbid.

Compare the above post to the enlarged below:

You're making a lot of assumptions, Boogs. I don't think those are fair to make, nor are they strong enough to lynch LC; it basically boils down to you wanting to lynch him for the Autofind win.

That said, I think I may have found something notable. I'll let you folks know as I continue procrastinating on PhD work and finish catching up. :P

Just saying, why wouldn't he have used it and have 2 chances to get the third piece tonight? Assumptions or facts is what you have to figure out. This game is different than a normal game and if you want to keep him around to let him get more strong and win more things along with his teammates winning to eliminate us, you be my guest. Me on the other hand, I don't trust him. Disagree if you want, but it's logical to vote him and people need to grow balls. FZ was lame and I went along to try to win extra money for the card. I'm confident in this one.

Boogs understood on Day 2 that he would have to vote for the lynched person in order to get the "extra money for the card" (his words). But with the birdwithteeth11 auction, he had not voted bwt.

Hey Boogs, since you didn't vote for BWT, meaning you didn't get the $200 bonus applied to your bid... Why did you bid $10? Why didn't you bid $210? Your bid was meaningless unless you thought you could win.

What does "friends in high places" mean?

my question exactly. There's no reason for Hedgie to be coy if she has a civ reason for surviving.

Again, i did NOT win the auction. Despite what you think, and where the hell did i get a secret auction vote? The theory makes no sense. I must have pulled it out of my kitty butt. And I bid hoping non BWT voters wouldnt want the properties. I planned on increasing it to try to win towards the end but didnt. I realized i still needed 200 to even outbid and it was useless again.

When did Boogs realize this? He understood well enough on Day 2.

The Day 3 poll ended at 12:14am EST. Boogs was around at 11:31 pm EST, so that would have been plenty of time for him switch to bwt if he wanted the "extra money for the card." The only person to vote after Boogs posted was TH, who switched his vote.

But Boogs still bid $10 for the Electric Company, knowing a measly $10 wouldn't cut it. He even asked boo about the $200 bonus in the same post as his bid, so it is obvious that Boogs was expecting bwt voters to have a bonus applied to their bids:

Wow! Awesome! I am weary of bidding for the card, but i suppose i will. $10 on Electric Company

Boo- I dont see the bonus for people voting BWT in the auction? Also, TH bid on something yet I see no powers up for bid. Confused.

This smells like the tuna fish bones of Boogs' leftover supper.

I have more to add (related to Boogs but unrelated to the bidding), but I have to go smell bus fumes for now.

[HannaK]

@Epi I've probably just been reading too many posts after each other and I can't make sense of everything right now, but how does Boogs bidding patterns relate to him being bad? (I do like the rest of your case though)

Personally, I am beginning to get more worried about seeing these houses appear on the board + that there are already 2 LMS groups than the baddies as the baddies aren't doing so well during the night (+ getting lynched quite a lot) so I feel that as long as we are not sure about whether we are lynching a baddie, we should maybe direct our attention to members of LMS groups

[juliets]

[quote="HannaK"]@Epi I've probably just been reading too many posts after each other and I can't make sense of everything right now, but how does Boogs bidding patterns relate to him being bad? (I do like the rest of your case though)

This ^^. I understood perfectly the points you were making but I don't understand how those things make him bad. I'm not doubting you Epi I just don't get the connection and am hoping you'll explain after you finish the bus fumes.

[juliets]

oops messed up quote. Anyone that wants to fix it and can is welcome unless its agaisnt some rule.

[Epignosis]

@Epi I've probably just been reading too many posts after each other and I can't make sense of everything right now, but how does Boogs bidding patterns relate to him being bad? (I do like the rest of your case though)

Personally, I am beginning to get more worried about seeing these houses appear on the board + that there are already 2 LMS groups than the baddies as the baddies aren't doing so well during the night (+ getting lynched quite a lot) so I feel that as long as we are not sure about whether we are lynching a baddie, we should maybe direct our attention to members of LMS groups

At the least, it indicates to me a measure of disingenuousness. At the most, it shows a vested interest in securing a teammate's property (and being slick about it).

In fairness to Boogs on this point, however, consider this:

Anonymous offers for Electric Company have been requested. If you would like to put in an offer to buy the property, please PM me and I will pass it along.

There is also the possibility that Turnip Head is lying about winning the bid:

Because I asked Boo if I won and he told me somebody else already bid $10. For some reason I thought the bidding was at $6.

>.<

I've been thinking about this. If TH thought the bidding was at $6, why bid $10? Why not $7?

[Turnip Head]

I don't have a good answer to why I bid $10 instead of $7 Epi. I wish I had bid $7 because maybe I wouldn't be wrapped up in this controversy. I thought $10 would win me the property but I didn't win. I have no reason to lie about this.

I did win the Short Line yesterday and I plan on putting it up for silent auction since it seems like that's a thing.

If Boogs didn't think his bid would win, why did he make it? I think he put a secret vote on BWT.

[Turnip Head]

Again, Boogs bid $10 when the bidding was at $206. I thought $210 would get me the property. It didn't. Somebody placed a secret vote, whether it was Boogs or some other non-BWT voter from Day 3. I am not the person auctioning off Electric Company because I didn't win.

[Turnip Head]

And if I did win it, and I was Water Works... I wouldn't auction EC off.

[Epignosis]

And if I did win it, and I was Water Works... I wouldn't auction EC off.

Mmm- but a person could put it up for sale and accept no offer.

[Turnip Head]

Wait... Can we assume that WW doesn't have EC because the latest person to land on a utility only paid x4 their roll instead of x10? It was x10 before BWT died, right?

[Epignosis]

Wait... Can we assume that WW doesn't have EC because the latest person to land on a utility only paid x4 their roll instead of x10? It was x10 before BWT died, right?

That seems...frighteningly obvious.

[HannaK]

I don't have a good answer to why I bid $10 instead of $7 Epi. I wish I had bid $7 because maybe I wouldn't be wrapped up in this controversy. I thought $10 would win me the property but I didn't win. I have no reason to lie about this.

I did win the Short Line yesterday and I plan on putting it up for silent auction since it seems like that's a thing.

If Boogs didn't think his bid would win, why did he make it? I think he put a secret vote on BWT.

Silent action means that no one will know who buys it right, not even you? Because if that's the case, then it seems fairly obvious that the people who are gonna bid for Short Line will be bad

[Epignosis]

HannaK, are you a Fallout fan?

[juliets]

There is also the possibility that Turnip Head is lying about winning the bid:

Because I asked Boo if I won and he told me somebody else already bid $10. For some reason I thought the bidding was at $6.

>.<

After this disagreement erupted I went back over the bids for EC and didn't see anyone that bid $10 before boogs. I'm going back to that time period again and revisit the votes and the times - this can't be hard to figure out (famous last words). I mean, you can't bid privately (unless I'm confused about the rules).

[juliets]

This is when boogs bid $10 - it was at 7:45 am. Before him first Faraday bid $2 and then Lorab bid $5. No one else bid $10 before boogs.

TH bid $10 at 11:59 pm, but as has been stated that bid had already been made. So I don't see how boogs could be correct that someone bid before him.

Wow! Awesome! I am weary of bidding for the card, but i suppose i will. $10 on Electric Company

Boo- I dont see the bonus for people voting BWT in the auction? Also, TH bid on something yet I see no powers up for bid. Confused.

Go back and see for yourself what the posts were from Day 3 end/Night 3 begin to boogs $10 bid at 7:45. http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 583#p98583

So I guess what i don't understand is why boogs is not telling the truth about the EC. In my records he has it. Or, I'm blind which is why I would rather someone double check me.

[Boogs]

This is when boogs bid $10 - it was at 7:45 am. Before him first Faraday bid $2 and then Lorab bid $5. No one else bid $10 before boogs.

TH bid $10 at 11:59 pm, but as has been stated that bid had already been made. So I don't see how boogs could be correct that someone bid before him.

Wow! Awesome! I am weary of bidding for the card, but i suppose i will. $10 on Electric Company

Boo- I dont see the bonus for people voting BWT in the auction? Also, TH bid on something yet I see no powers up for bid. Confused.

Go back and see for yourself what the posts were from Day 3 end/Night 3 begin to boogs $10 bid at 7:45. http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 583#p98583

So I guess what i don't understand is why boogs is not telling the truth about the EC. In my records he has it. Or, I'm blind which is why I would rather someone double check me.

Im telling the truth. I didnt win EC. I didnt bid on EC so whoever bid before me got it if they were a BWT voter or TH is lying and his bid went in. I dont see the secret vote conspiracy being true. It's also assuming I got some extra vote some how.

[Boogs]

Ebwop Didnt win on EC.
I def bid $10

[Turnip Head]

Juliets, Boogs didn't vote for BWT so he didn't get the $200 bonus. What doesn't make sense is why Boogs would bid $10 when he knew the bidding was at $206.

Hanna, the auctioneer can choose whichever offer they prefer. The biggest bid need not be accepted. If I hold onto Short Line, the baddies can kill me and get it for free. If I auction it, I can choose an arbitrary bid, and the baddies won't know who holds the property.

[juliets]

So TH, if he didnt get the $200 bonus (which he didnt) doesn't that mean you beat him because you were the only one of the bidders that did get the $200 bonus.

[juliets]

I'm wrong!!! Lorab voted bwt. So that solves that.

[Epignosis]

Boogs, what do you think of juliets?

Lorab, what do you think of Black Rock?

[juliets]

I just want to clarify that when i said that solves that I was talking about boogs not having the EC. If my logic works, Lorab bid $205, then boogs bid would not have counted because it was below $205 then TH bid $210. TH, tell me why that doesn't work or what am i not seeing. i have leaned civ on you all this time but this tidbit bothers me.

[Turnip Head]

So TH, if he didnt get the $200 bonus (which he didnt) doesn't that mean you beat him because you were the only one of the bidders that did get the $200 bonus.

I thought I beat him, but Boo told me that I did not win the property. His exact words were "No, another $10 bid had already been made and bids must increase from the previous one to be accepted."

[Epignosis]

So TH, if he didnt get the $200 bonus (which he didnt) doesn't that mean you beat him because you were the only one of the bidders that did get the $200 bonus.

I thought I beat him, but Boo told me that I did not win the property. His exact words were "No, another $10 bid had already been made and bids must increase from the previous one to be accepted."

[Boogs]

Guys, just to note:
This team starts the game with BTSC. Kills even nights Cannot be NKed by the Railroads. Any player who lands on a utility will have their property learned by the utilities, and if they are ever lynched, the utilities will have $300 applied to a bid on the property.
Does that explain why TH isnt dead with taking railroads and such? I think yes.

[Epignosis]

Guys, just to note:
This team starts the game with BTSC. Kills even nights Cannot be NKed by the Railroads. Any player who lands on a utility will have their property learned by the utilities, and if they are ever lynched, the utilities will have $300 applied to a bid on the property.
Does that explain why TH isnt dead with taking railroads and such? I think yes.

[Boogs]

Im just saying to go along with TH being Water Works, he stole, bid really but metaphorically speaking, their set piece and no death happened. I just think it smells more fishy, and not the fish us cats like.

[Boogs]

Boogs, what do you think of juliets?

Lorab, what do you think of Black Rock?

Honestly, I have read her Civ this game. Being btsc with her once now, i dont see the same behavior as i did in that game when she was bad with me.

[juliets]

epi, I've seen the little thinking man on your posts - what are you thinking?

[Turnip Head]

Guys, just to note:
This team starts the game with BTSC. Kills even nights Cannot be NKed by the Railroads. Any player who lands on a utility will have their property learned by the utilities, and if they are ever lynched, the utilities will have $300 applied to a bid on the property.
Does that explain why TH isnt dead with taking railroads and such? I think yes.

What on earth are you trying to say here Boogs? I'm not dead because no ones tried to kill me... How does me being alive make me bad? 0_0

[Turnip Head]

I have no reason to lie about my involvement in the EC bidding. Whether I'm civvie or baddie, there's no reason for me to lie. If someone wants to present a theory as to why it would make sense for me to be lying about this, if love to hear it.