Monopoly Mafia [GAME OVER]

[Turnip Head]

Splints: because I'm at work you jerk. You threw these accusations up at the last minute. You'll better believe I'll have things to say if I survive this.

And yes I'm defensive. I'm fucking fighting for my life because I've done nothing but defend LC's case all day and now you just tried to get a different lynch train started on me in the final hours without even doing due diligence .

[Long Con]

Splints: because I'm at work you jerk. You threw these accusations up at the last minute. You'll better believe I'll have things to say if I survive this.

And yes I'm defensive. I'm fucking fighting for my life because I've done nothing but defend LC's case all day and now you just tried to get a different lynch train started on me in the final hours without even doing due diligence .

I feel like plenty of people defended you against my case... I felt like my case was debunked in many peoples' eyes due to the perceived logical fallacy.

[boo]

Day 7 End/Night 7 Start: On the Boardwalk

keys tried to hold a union meeting on his boardwalk. So the mob framed him as a killer to justify killing him.

keys56abunchof0s has been lynched. He was Boardwalk. Thanks for playing keys!
It is now Night 7. You have 24 hours to get PMs in.

Boardwalk is up for auction. Bidding starts at $1, all bids must increase by at least $1 from the previous bid.

Mutually Assured Survival/Destruction and Roleblock are now both for sale. They start at their starting amount, you bid for it in thread, if no one raises you within 30 minutes it’s yours.

[fingersplints]

Splints: because I'm at work you jerk. You threw these accusations up at the last minute. You'll better believe I'll have things to say if I survive this.

And yes I'm defensive. I'm fucking fighting for my life because I've done nothing but defend LC's case all day and now you just tried to get a different lynch train started on me in the final hours without even doing due diligence .

Last minute? Final hours?

I posted yesterday at 5:31 I thought you were a railroad. I gave you 29 hours to even question it. It is not fair that you get mad at me because you waited until "last minute" to ask me about it. I'm not trying to get any lynch train started. I am trying to discuss who could be railroads since I think its a more necessary right now.

linki :/ alright keys. sucks ;(

[S~V~S]

Yikes. Based on rental incomes, he did not have BTS, and was still a civ.

[S~V~S]

Vote missers~

[Turnip Head]

Rest in peace keys. Sorry you didn't want to play with us anymore, and sorry you got lynched like that.

Splintsy, I'll reply to you later tonight when I'm home from work.

[Turnip Head]

No MM. Splintsy's case on me is BASED on Keys flipping Water Works. He wants to quit. Why isn't she voting him FIRST? It would give her case some credibility if he flips WW and poke holes in her case if he's civ. either way it looks like he doesn't want to play anymore. Meanwhile I've been fighting for my life all damn game.

You also think keys is WW, so where does that put your stance on fingers? What if keys is WW, can you still deny fingers' allegations?

Um... I didn't say I think Keys is WW, I don't know where you got that idea. I specifically said I hope he's NOT Water Works because that would prove Splintsy's theory wrong. If Keys had flipped WW, firstly I would have been happy we lynched a baddie, but I would have had to face the consequences of what that meant about me in relation to splintsy's theory. I'm not a railroad, so yes, I can definitely deny the allegations. Whether or not anyone believes me is a different story I suppose, but I know the truth of my role so I can at least argue with conviction.

TH actually wouldn't previously answer if he thought keys was WW, funny how now he agrees.

"Funny how now he agrees", you say... except I did not "now agree that Keys is WW". That never happened. THAT NEVER HAPPENED! You guys are literally making this up! Again, I said I hope he's NOT Water Works because him being WW would look bad for me. MM said that I said something that I never said (see above), and now you're just repeating what he said I said. It's like a bad game of telephone.

Weren't you the one appealing to me about not wanting to lynch WW becasue of the insecurity of the kill passing? Do you remember saying this?

And now that I think about it, the fact that BR seems so gung ho on lynching an inactive Water Works today might be an indication that she is in the LMS group that won the Beatdown power. There's not much other incentive to go after an inactive Water Works. A civvie BR should be happy that the kill is not currently being used against us. Something to ponder.

And this?

SVS, I know you are just as worried as I am about where a baddie kill might end up once a team is eliminated. I'm not sure if you saw this, since you mentioned Boo's previous ambiguous answer re: the kill. This was a power that Boo put up for silent auction:

4) Beatdown: This power allows anyone with BTSC to take over the night kill of one of the mafia teams. In order to do so, all members of the mafia team must be dead (at least 1 of them must have been killed with help from a member doing the beatdown), and then the night kill can be claimed. Can be played prior to the requirements occurring, but will only go through once they are met. Bids for this power can be done privately. - Starts at $200

It's very likely that one of the two established LMS groups has obtained this power.

I'd rather leave the kill in the hands of an inactive player than to just hand it over to one of those guys.

Yes, I remember saying those things. What I do NOT remember saying was that I wanted to lynch Water Works today. What do these quotes have to do with anything? Were you drinking the same Kool-Aid as MM and splintsy? Were you seeing things that simply were not there?

And even so... I said those things back when I thought WW was going to keep being inactive/not making kills. We obviously live in a different world these days. Nowadays, if we let Water Works live, he's apparently still going to kill us. My whole "leave the NK in the hands of an inactive player" strategy doesn't work anymore. We are going to have to lynch Water Works at some point, and that kill is inevitably going to pass to another team. But you're acting like I suddenly changed my tune and that that somehow is damnable evidence.


All of this to say, at the end of the day, I still don't understand splintsy's desire to vote me out first before voting for Keys, since her theory hinged on Keys being Water Works. Splintsy said she thought Keys was Water Works, and BECAUSE he was Water Works I must be a railroad. That was her case. But for some yet undetermined reason, splintsy wanted to skip lynching Keys and go straight to lynching me. It's like if the jury reaches a verdict before the case goes to trial. It just doesn't make any sense to do it that way.

But this is all basically moot. Keys wasn't Water Works, he didn't know my role. He was just a civvie who didn't want to play the game.

I don't even really suspect you splintsy, I don't see a baddie framing cases in the way that you have here... but the way that you approached the vote today seemed like bad form to me. You were making unsubstantiated assumptions about Keys' role, and you wanted to lynch me, not him, because of those wrong assumptions. And without Keys' role being revealed, there was nothing I could even do to defend against those assumptions. And all of this happened, like, 2 hours before the deadline. Do you see maybe why I got so defensive about this?

[Turnip Head]

Splints: because I'm at work you jerk. You threw these accusations up at the last minute. You'll better believe I'll have things to say if I survive this.

And yes I'm defensive. I'm fucking fighting for my life because I've done nothing but defend LC's case all day and now you just tried to get a different lynch train started on me in the final hours without even doing due diligence .

Last minute? Final hours?

I posted yesterday at 5:31 I thought you were a railroad. I gave you 29 hours to even question it. It is not fair that you get mad at me because you waited until "last minute" to ask me about it. I'm not trying to get any lynch train started. I am trying to discuss who could be railroads since I think its a more necessary right now.

Here's the post you linked to:

I think LC has good points but I think TH is more likely to be a railroad.
I do not believe he would waste a kill purposefully, and I do not think he would go against bwt that early if he was his teammate. I have been teammates with TH twice fairly recently, and he is a very team oriented player.

You gave reasoning for why it was not likely I'm Water Works, and then you simply said "I think TH is more likely to be a railroad." Okay... how did you want me to respond to that? Did you just want me to say "No, I'm not either one"? Because that's all I COULD have said. Your statement was not a case, that's just you saying you think I'm more likely to be one thing than the other and giving no reasoning behind that notion whatsoever. I had to pry to figure out why you thought I was a railroad.

The reasoning that you later used for suspecting me, the "Keys is WW and learned TH's role and voted for TH because TH is a railroad" reasoning, THAT tidbit is what you did not bring up until the lynch was almost over. I most certainly did not have 29 hours to respond to it.

[Turnip Head]

Why do you think I'm a railroad splintsy? That's a new one...

It shouldn't be new because I have said it before.

I don't have any concrete case or anything if that is what you are expecting. There is a vibe I get from some of your posts and votes, and your interactions with people.
Plus how I believe keys would have played a WW role and his vote for you.

You say it's a vibe from my posts, my votes, and my interactions with people. How incredibly vague. Which posts? Which votes? Which interactions? Which people?

[Turnip Head]

And I'm sorry if I'm coming across as confrontational or harsh. It's not my intention. I'm just exhausted from having to defend myself day in and day out this game. It's been one thing after another.

[S~V~S]

Thinking someone made some good points (even if they were wrong, they were still good points) is not "drinking the koolaid".

Hyperbole almost always sounds baddie to me.

[S~V~S]

This game has brought a point that bothers me to a head for me to some extent. I myself am NOT a case builder, and I don't do "baddie hunting". I don't go looking for things to suspect just to look for them, I think that leads to civ lynchings. I lead with my instincts. If someone feels off to me, I read them for a better feel of them, and if I find quotes, I pull them, and if I don't find them, but am still convinced, I do my best to persuade people, generally without quotes. But some people play pretty good to flawless games, and you have to go with your feelings sometimes; sometimes they don't give you much to work with. I read some people pretty well, I think, others, not so much. That is how some people play, without quotes, etc.

Not a fan of demanding quotes and that people quantify "feelings" with bullet points and proof in order for them to be valid. Sometimes this gamestyle gets me in trouble here; more players in this group tend to like the bullet point proofs and logical analyses than in the group where I started. But I play how I play. And I think I am fairly successful as a civ. I lead with my gut 90% of the time. I think reading long, quotey cases is boring; I want to know how you feel. But i don't berate anyone for "bad form" for playing differently than I do.

You are basically telling Splints that her case and thoughts are not valid because she did not pull up multi quotes for you to refute, and it was late in the day. Plus she was trying to start conversation, IMO, and no one was talking. I read back on her and she DID mention you earlier, you just did not reply to her. So she brought it up more forcefully. This is not her fault. When *I* start pouting over not having a case to refute, and demanding one, that usually means I am bad. I learned that lesson in LOST: Revolution at RM. As soon as i was cornered on "gut" I pushed back with the same things you are saying, and it sealed my fate. Or would have if rabbit had not disappeared I was about to get lynched and would not have been able to talk my way out of it.

She plays a different game than you; it isn't "bad form", it's HER form. People have been discussing you for days. I have not seen it, tbh. But your initial reaction to Splints yesterday is what led me to vote for you this time more than anything she said.

[fingersplints]

At work and then spending quality time with my niece who I may not get to see again much before I leave. THs post is too much for my phone posting. So I will try to address it later, however insulting how I play doesn't give me much incentive to want to.

[Long Con]

How can the reds put up their nine houses for sale AND still build hotels?

Don't you exchange the four houses back to the bank when you upgrade them to hotels?

So, if I had a property group with four houses on each, then I could build hotels and then put those houses on another property group (assuming I somehow had two) for FREE?

These questions are for boo.

[HannaK]

RIP Keys

Ther are about the same amount of people not voting as there are people voting which really sucks as people draw heat for voting a certain player (which is good because it fosters dicussion) but we have 0 intel on some of the players as they have not posted anything or voted which makes it really hard to play this game well. I mean, what if the +- 10 players who do post and discuss are all pointing at each other for being bad even though all the mafia is within this group of non-posters. Not saying that this is the case per se, but it is worth keeping in mind that there are quite a few players of which we simply do not know anything

[Marmot]

And I'm sorry if I'm coming across as confrontational or harsh. It's not my intention. I'm just exhausted from having to defend myself day in and day out this game. It's been one thing after another.

I don't see it as harsh, just as someone who has a lot of pressure on them.

I've caught up a little, but I'm off to class now. I'll respond later.

[Tangrowth]

Well, that sucks. RIP keys.

TH just sounds really frustrated to me. I remember I posted/felt the same way in Homestar Runner when I could not escape suspicions of being bad all game from multiple people.

[Tangrowth]

FYI I have requested assistance from Bluehost regarding the "timed out request" issue for those who are still experiencing that.

[Epignosis]

FYI I have requested assistance from Bluehost regarding the "timed out request" issue for those who are still experiencing that.

Thank you.

[Tangrowth]

RIP Keys

Ther are about the same amount of people not voting as there are people voting which really sucks as people draw heat for voting a certain player (which is good because it fosters dicussion) but we have 0 intel on some of the players as they have not posted anything or voted which makes it really hard to play this game well. I mean, what if the +- 10 players who do post and discuss are all pointing at each other for being bad even though all the mafia is within this group of non-posters. Not saying that this is the case per se, but it is worth keeping in mind that there are quite a few players of which we simply do not know anything

Also, this is something to keep in mind.

At some point, if the nonparticipating players are still alive, especially if WW is still alive, we'll have to ask ourselves how to deal with those players.

[Tangrowth]

FYI I have requested assistance from Bluehost regarding the "timed out request" issue for those who are still experiencing that.

Thank you.

Not a problem.

I investigated it in every way on my end and I could NOT figure it out. Really odd. I also discerned it is strictly a Bluehost issue, not a phpBB one. So we'll see if they can get it fixed promptly.

[Turnip Head]

Thinking someone made some good points (even if they were wrong, they were still good points) is not "drinking the koolaid".

I don't know how points can be good ones if they are wrong ones, but in any case, the kool-aid comment was because it looked like you were doing the same thing splintsy and MM did: saying that I was saying things I never said. The way you phrased your question to me and pulled up my old quotes, you acted like I was contradicting myself or something, and I just didn't know what you were trying to point out by doing that. I still don't know.

And it's not a problem if splintsy doesn't want to do big quotes and a fleshed out case, SVS. I never said she had to do those things. Okay? The fact of the matter is, splintsy didn't say WHY she thought I was a railroad until after I asked, with 2 or 3 hours left to go in the lynch. In fact, she didn't even say she THOUGHT I was a railroad, all she said was that she thought I was more likely to be a railroad than Water Works, which is not an accusation at all. And she kept asking LC questions, like "Do you think TH is likely to be a railroad or LMS" without giving her own opinion, and I had to ask her how SHE felt because she wasn't saying. And then she said some vague stuff like "Some of my posts and votes" made her suspicious, and I'd simply like to know what that means. Which votes, which posts? I feel these are fair questions for me to want the answers to.

At work and then spending quality time with my niece who I may not get to see again much before I leave. THs post is too much for my phone posting. So I will try to address it later, however insulting how I play doesn't give me much incentive to want to.

I didn't mean to insult the way you play splintsy. I meant to say that it was bad form to lynch me before Keys since the only part of your case with any specificity to it was the theory that he was Water Works and knew my role. Yet you weren't voting to lynch Keys on those same merits, you went after me instead. That's bad form because it's bad logic and because it left me in a really shitty position where I had to say "well lynch Keys first then and see if he's Water Works". I felt it was somewhat personal that you didn't want to lynch him, even though you thought he was a baddie. It didn't make sense to me and it didn't leave me in a very good position yesterday. And I was pretty upset about that.

[Tangrowth]

TH, where do you think we should look tomorrow?

[Turnip Head]

I'm still suspicious of Lorab, and I still think Daisy could be BWT's partner based on her vote for him. I haven't gone back to look and see if she was around to have sent in the Night 6 kill, though. And we obviously still have to deal with the LMS groups, but I haven't figured out a good way to do that since - as juliets pointed out - those properties will still wind up in somebody's hands even if we lynch them.

[Turnip Head]

To reiterate, my suspicion is that Lorab is the railroad that killed Epi. Of course, if I'm right about that, I'll get accused of being Water Works again because Water Works knows Lorab's role.

[Tangrowth]

I'm still suspicious of Lorab, and I still think Daisy could be BWT's partner based on her vote for him. I haven't gone back to look and see if she was around to have sent in the Night 6 kill, though. And we obviously still have to deal with the LMS groups, but I haven't figured out a good way to do that since - as juliets pointed out - those properties will still wind up in somebody's hands even if we lynch them.

Good points. I think there might be something to LoRab. Obviously I have no read of Daisy since she hasn't been around.

That's something to consider... it really means IMO that it's best to nail WW and RRs before LMSers because if any of the four monopolies gets lynched and has a hotel, it will just go to someone else. Right? Didn't really think of that.

WW could be any of the following, right? Any player that's playing low on the radar or is not really playing but may be around on the site often enough to still send in a PM in BWT's absence, yet able to miss one on accident? This is assuming the one NK missed wasn't skipped on purpose:
- Black Rock
- Blooper
- DP
- LoRab

I just looked at the Members list and these are the last days certain players have been on the site (so WW CAN'T be them):
Daisy: Sat Nov 15, 2014 11:16:50 am
Degobunny: Sun Nov 09, 2014 10:01:18 am

However, these two could be an RR or an inactive LMS member.

[Turnip Head]

Hmmmm. So my theory about Daisy is debunked by that. Good to know. She's likely one of the players who asked to be replaced.

In contrast, Ninjablooper has been on the site, and active in another game, yet absolutely refuses to post in this one. Her last post in this thread was on November 9th... 16 days ago. Yet I see her on the site all the time.

[boo]

How can the reds put up their nine houses for sale AND still build hotels?

Don't you exchange the four houses back to the bank when you upgrade them to hotels?

So, if I had a property group with four houses on each, then I could build hotels and then put those houses on another property group (assuming I somehow had two) for FREE?

These questions are for boo.

There were still houses left when they made the switch, so they paid $300 to go from 3 to a hotel on each, skipping over the 4th since they could have bought them but would have just had that turn around and included them in the 9 being sold in thread, which wasn't necessary at that time.

When houses are returned for any reason (which is the case with the 9 reds, that money isn't going to them, they upgraded to hotels which lost them control of the 9 houses they did have) they get sold in thread at the price the person who bought them paid ($50/$100/$150/$200).

[Turnip Head]

Ohhhhhhhh. So the reds aren't getting the money from those houses. Got it.

[Tangrowth]

Hmmmm. So my theory about Daisy is debunked by that. Good to know. She's likely one of the players who asked to be replaced.

In contrast, Ninjablooper has been on the site, and active in another game, yet absolutely refuses to post in this one. Her last post in this thread was on November 9th... 16 days ago. Yet I see her on the site all the time.

Indeed.

Definitely something to consider.

[Long Con]

Ohhhhhhhh. So the reds aren't getting the money from those houses. Got it.

Yes, good to know, that makes much more sense.

[Bass_the_Clever]

RIP Keys.

Sorry I missed the vote.

I agree with MP I rather find the railroads and water works before we go after last man standing groups .

[Tangrowth]

Post test, ignore this.

[Tangrowth]

If anyone receives reports of the timed out error henceforth, please PM me.

[Marmot]

How can the reds put up their nine houses for sale AND still build hotels?

Don't you exchange the four houses back to the bank when you upgrade them to hotels?

So, if I had a property group with four houses on each, then I could build hotels and then put those houses on another property group (assuming I somehow had two) for FREE?

These questions are for boo.

There were still houses left when they made the switch, so they paid $300 to go from 3 to a hotel on each, skipping over the 4th since they could have bought them but would have just had that turn around and included them in the 9 being sold in thread, which wasn't necessary at that time.

When houses are returned for any reason (which is the case with the 9 reds, that money isn't going to them, they upgraded to hotels which lost them control of the 9 houses they did have) they get sold in thread at the price the person who bought them paid ($50/$100/$150/$200).

Based on this, I think it's safe to assume that all three red players are also active players, or at the very least two of them. Having all three of them online at around the same time would be a requirement for them to skip the fourth house and build hotels. Same deal for when they bought their first three houses. It probably happened all at once, and you have to build evenly.

Linki: I just had one, but I had started those post a bit ago.

[Marmot]

Ninja bloops is online now. Hope she sees this.

[Marmot]

$1 on Boardwalk

[Black Rock]

I'm still suspicious of Lorab, and I still think Daisy could be BWT's partner based on her vote for him. I haven't gone back to look and see if she was around to have sent in the Night 6 kill, though. And we obviously still have to deal with the LMS groups, but I haven't figured out a good way to do that since - as juliets pointed out - those properties will still wind up in somebody's hands even if we lynch them.

Good points. I think there might be something to LoRab. Obviously I have no read of Daisy since she hasn't been around.

That's something to consider... it really means IMO that it's best to nail WW and RRs before LMSers because if any of the four monopolies gets lynched and has a hotel, it will just go to someone else. Right? Didn't really think of that.

WW could be any of the following, right? Any player that's playing low on the radar or is not really playing but may be around on the site often enough to still send in a PM in BWT's absence, yet able to miss one on accident? This is assuming the one NK missed wasn't skipped on purpose:
- Black Rock
- Blooper
- DP
- LoRab

I just looked at the Members list and these are the last days certain players have been on the site (so WW CAN'T be them):
Daisy: Sat Nov 15, 2014 11:16:50 am
Degobunny: Sun Nov 09, 2014 10:01:18 am

However, these two could be an RR or an inactive LMS member.

That'd be a cruel fate for me. Get killed by them and then join in on the team.

I got a time out message MP

[Tangrowth]

Duly noted re: time outs, thanks guys.

[LoRab]

Sorry I missed the vote, y'all! One of those days. For 2 days. Hoping things calm down with the holiday.

I'm still not WW or a RR. I'm just a colored street. I didn't kill Epig, or anyone else. I don't really understand why people think I might have, other than the fact that I sometimes find myself frustrated with him in games, such as earlier in this one--not a reason to kill someone, tbh. Certainly not strategic. But I digress. I'm not a baddie.

linkitis: @MP: I timed out in trying to post this.

[Turnip Head]

$5 Boardwalk

Still getting the timeout error

[Marmot]

Yay someone else is bidding this time.

$11 on Boardwalk

[Tangrowth]

Why not?

$21 on Boardwalk

[Marmot]

I think you're a bit late MP.

[Tangrowth]

I think you're a bit late MP.

D'oh! That's what I get for finally wanting to get in on the bidding action and not paying full attention. Lol.

[Black Rock]

I think you're a bit late MP.

D'oh! That's what I get for finally wanting to get in on the bidding action and not paying full attention. Lol.

I think that is called a fail?!

[Tangrowth]

I think you're a bit late MP.

D'oh! That's what I get for finally wanting to get in on the bidding action and not paying full attention. Lol.

I think that is called a fail?!

Indeed.

A sock fail, in this case.

[Marmot]

A late night for boo I see.

[Turnip Head]

As I sit in the Las Vegas airport staring at a row of slot machines while waiting to board my connecting flight to Colorado, I realized this is a good time to mention that I'll be out of town visiting friends and family until Sunday. I'll still try to keep up and post my thoughts but I likely won't be as involved as I'd like to be.