The Syndicate

Another vote for no

I barely have time for 48. Keep it there please.

speedchuck wrote:I'm gonna die in 26 hours and 14 minutes. Does anyone have any questions for me before then?

Yes! Explain your read on Marmot please and what makes you think he's town.

I vote no to shortening the days too -

Dyslexicon wrote:

speedchuck wrote:I'm gonna die in 26 hours and 14 minutes. Does anyone have any questions for me before then?

Yes! Explain your read on Marmot please and what makes you think he's town.

I'm new here, but a lot of it is meta. Read some of Marmot here, then read some of him in Phenon.

I see earnest effort in this game, an attempt to take the game seriously, a good bit of genuine content. When I look through his posts, I get a happy face.

When he was scum, I got none of that. He didn't take the game seriously enough for me to read him.

So it's part meta-read, and part me having no reason to suspect Marmot. What reasons should I have for suspecting him?

speedchuck wrote:

Dyslexicon wrote:

speedchuck wrote:I'm gonna die in 26 hours and 14 minutes. Does anyone have any questions for me before then?

Yes! Explain your read on Marmot please and what makes you think he's town.

I'm new here, but a lot of it is meta. Read some of Marmot here, then read some of him in Phenon.

I see earnest effort in this game, an attempt to take the game seriously, a good bit of genuine content. When I look through his posts, I get a happy face.

When he was scum, I got none of that. He didn't take the game seriously enough for me to read him.

So it's part meta-read, and part me having no reason to suspect Marmot. What reasons should I have for suspecting him?

Alright. I'm not so sure, but I'll keep this in mind. Doesn't look too bright anyway.

I haven't had the same good feels and I think he's been laying rather low. The more concrete reason to suspect Marmot is his bipolar stance on FZ in the very beginning and what looked like fake peeking FZ (Did you ever comment on that btw, Marmot?)

But if I can't make my own mind up, maybe I'll just follow yours, cause no responsibility \o/

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Spoiler: show

It doesn't make me feel much of anything. I could believe that the mixup was genuine. I highlighted a question you asked though which covers some of my room for doubt: I don't see what reason you have to care if the thread knows you and "FZ/FM" had played together before. The dialogue is all neutral.

Meh. Maybe it reads neutral, idk. I don't see myself having to clear this up in thread first thing if I was mafia with FZ, but that's a hypothetical even for me in the end.

Spoiler: show

I understand that you can't really answer to the Luke kill. It's circumstantial suspicion. That's how the game works though. If the Luke kill was motivated by a cop hunt, then it's a bad look for you -- Luke's only read on Day 2 was to suspect you. That's not the only plausible scenario, but it's one that must be considered.

That's pretty fair. That's probably the only point of suspicion against me that I understand. To my biased self I've been town as hell all game. This I can't answer to, but it's a good move of mafia depending on how premeditated it is. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Spoiler: show

It's been no kill in each example I've seen. I doubt that's relevant to this game with the entire mafia team alive.

Yeah, it seems unlikely that no kill was submited.

Spoiler: show

I don't know that I believe you had real intentions behind the cat gif reads. You could explain them now just about any way you want; they were illegible when you provided them.

I highly disagree that they were illegible any more than early reads are, and will continue to give reads just the way I want in future games.

Spoiler: show

Okay. I'm forced to take or leave things like this at face value, because you're telling me what your own meta is. It might be helpful if you'd explain why you wouldn't do whatever thing as scum instead of that you wouldn't do it. This is a recurring theme throughout your response.

I realize self meta is unhelpful in game. Anyone who wants can have a link to my last scum game to see what that looks like if they want. The reason this point in particular is something I don't see myself doing as scum, maybe especially surrounded by so many players I don't know well, is just that I as most players am image conscious as scum, so outright supporting a teammate that was highly suspecting this blantantly just would look bad. What you see is my immediate reaction to reading that post. Yeah, it was wrong, but it was a town reaction. I also think you're a good enough player to understand why I would not want to do this if I was scum without my explaining it to you, I think it was implied in my first post. Whether you believe me or not is another question, and whether you want to or not is a third.

Spoiler: show

It looks that way. The attempt was rather blatant. Did you anticipate drawing a night kill for this?

Meh. I said it because I said it and I also meant exactly what I said. In fact the cop did have information that was outed that day, so more of a feeling of where the game was at at the moment. I don't find it particularly important, just me saying stuff.

I have a question for you: Do you think you've sorted me out? I have more questions than that, but want to start there.

Dyslexicon wrote:

speedchuck wrote:

Dyslexicon wrote:

speedchuck wrote:I'm gonna die in 26 hours and 14 minutes. Does anyone have any questions for me before then?

Yes! Explain your read on Marmot please and what makes you think he's town.

I'm new here, but a lot of it is meta. Read some of Marmot here, then read some of him in Phenon.

I see earnest effort in this game, an attempt to take the game seriously, a good bit of genuine content. When I look through his posts, I get a happy face.

When he was scum, I got none of that. He didn't take the game seriously enough for me to read him.

So it's part meta-read, and part me having no reason to suspect Marmot. What reasons should I have for suspecting him?

Alright. I'm not so sure, but I'll keep this in mind. Doesn't look too bright anyway.

I haven't had the same good feels and I think he's been laying rather low. The more concrete reason to suspect Marmot is his bipolar stance on FZ in the very beginning and what looked like fake peeking FZ (Did you ever comment on that btw, Marmot?)

But if I can't make my own mind up, maybe I'll just follow yours, cause no responsibility \o/

Not sure if I did, but the reason I didn't suspect FZ Day 1 is because I liked her responses to the pressure she received. I remember she compared herself to nutella at one point, saying that they're being suspected for similar reasons. I looked back through their posts at the time, and determined FZ looked a lot better than nutella did. I think that comparison was a strong reason for my suspicion of nutella and townread of FZ.

If only there could be another way to do this

speedchuck has been killed. He was Eventually, a...

Dyslexicon wrote:I highly disagree that they were illegible any more than early reads are, and will continue to give reads just the way I want in future games.

I encourage you to play however you want to play. If you're to claim though that your .gif reads had any relevant meaning, then please clarify what all of them were meant to convey.

Dyslexicon wrote:I realize self meta is unhelpful in game. Anyone who wants can have a link to my last scum game to see what that looks like if they want. The reason this point in particular is something I don't see myself doing as scum, maybe especially surrounded by so many players I don't know well, is just that I as most players am image conscious as scum, so outright supporting a teammate that was highly suspecting this blantantly just would look bad. What you see is my immediate reaction to reading that post. Yeah, it was wrong, but it was a town reaction. I also think you're a good enough player to understand why I would not want to do this if I was scum without my explaining it to you, I think it was implied in my first post. Whether you believe me or not is another question, and whether you want to or not is a third.

I don't necessarily think self-meta is unhelpful. I do believe that some players do report on their own meta in times of crisis or pressure in ways that are genuine, and indeed they are often discarded too quickly for fear of WIFOM. I am inviting you to talk about this because I am willing to listen to it. On the matter of FZ, your early reception of her wasn't especially "supportive" -- the specific example we're discussing here was, but I wouldn't call that thematic of your treatment of her. I think you covered a wide spectrum with her; to include questioning her, voting for her, and supporting her. The breadth of that spectrum isn't necessarily a problem, but it does stand against the point you're giving me here: that you were "outright supporting" of her full stop while she was under suspicion.

I don't like the highlighted portion. You've implied that my motivation for discussing this with you is insincere, but you haven't actually said that, while also asking that I read your mind (to know how you'd explain something before you've explained it to me).

Dyslexicon wrote:I have a question for you: Do you think you've sorted me out? I have more questions than that, but want to start there.

I don't think I've "sorted you out". I think you're a suspect. I think I need to engage in this dialogue with you to maximize my chances of making the correct judgment. What is the purpose of this question?

Marmot wrote:Not sure if I did, but the reason I didn't suspect FZ Day 1 is because I liked her responses to the pressure she received. I remember she compared herself to nutella at one point, saying that they're being suspected for similar reasons. I looked back through their posts at the time, and determined FZ looked a lot better than nutella did. I think that comparison was a strong reason for my suspicion of nutella and townread of FZ.

I do see a moment in which you stated your perspective that the two differed for you. It's less clear though what specifically made you like nutella less at the time in her posts versus FZ's. Please talk about that.

This day phase might be a shit sandwich for me. I have some time tonight and maybe tomorrow afternoon. Tomorrow night I'll be away though, and I'll be on a plane scheduled to depart the gate at almost exactly the deadline of this lynch on Sunday. This might be my busiest week or two until autumn when I start PhD hell.

It's important that we field as thorough a conversation as we can today as a group. It's LyLo, meaning we cannot afford to have a single civilian final vote on another civilian. Let's try to give ourselves the best chance we can here. I understand that folks are busy, so am I.

insertnamehere wrote:

Dyslexicon wrote:

Golden wrote:Dizzy, gun to head, who is the baddie team?

Marmot and JJJ.
Gun to head. BUT I haven't done the work and looked through the FZ-stuff.

This'd be my GTH baddie team too. Plus FZ of course.

INH, what leads you to suspect the remaining mafia team you have indicated here: Marmot and I?

Dyslexicon wrote:Also, I voted for FZ the whole fucking time EoD. I only voted JJJ when LC asked me to. Was this unclear somehow? I get that you are confirmed town, but god damn.

Dizzy, what inspired the frustration you were displaying here? Given that you knew Epi was confirmed, you had no reason to distrust his motives when he was questioning you.

Golden wrote:Read back and consider a marmot/dizzy team and see what you think.

Golden, can you expand on this dynamic you presented to INH and clarify your own present position?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Golden wrote:Read back and consider a marmot/dizzy team and see what you think.

Golden, can you expand on this dynamic you presented to INH and clarify your own present position?

I haven't had a chance to see if inh responded. I looked into this myself and perceive dizzy is marmots most likely teammate if marmot was bad. I'm not convinced narnitbis bad though. Dizzy is currently odds on for my vote today.

Golden wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Golden wrote:Read back and consider a marmot/dizzy team and see what you think.

Golden, can you expand on this dynamic you presented to INH and clarify your own present position?

I haven't had a chance to see if inh responded. I looked into this myself and perceive dizzy is marmots most likely teammate if marmot was bad. I'm not convinced narnitbis bad though. Dizzy is currently odds on for my vote today.

Can you offer a good reason to not vote for insertnamehere this phase?

Marmot wrote:

Golden wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Golden wrote:Read back and consider a marmot/dizzy team and see what you think.

Golden, can you expand on this dynamic you presented to INH and clarify your own present position?

I haven't had a chance to see if inh responded. I looked into this myself and perceive dizzy is marmots most likely teammate if marmot was bad. I'm not convinced narnitbis bad though. Dizzy is currently odds on for my vote today.

Can you offer a good reason to not vote for insertnamehere this phase?

At the moment, I'm most convinced that dizzy fits into the baddie team. I have work to do, though, and I won't have time to do it until this time tomorrow (since I have spent all day cleaning the house for an open home, and now I have a sermon to write for tomorrow morning, and then I have a Survivor blog to write which I'm already late on).

Golden wrote:

Marmot wrote:

Golden wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Golden wrote:Read back and consider a marmot/dizzy team and see what you think.

Golden, can you expand on this dynamic you presented to INH and clarify your own present position?

I haven't had a chance to see if inh responded. I looked into this myself and perceive dizzy is marmots most likely teammate if marmot was bad. I'm not convinced narnitbis bad though. Dizzy is currently odds on for my vote today.

Can you offer a good reason to not vote for insertnamehere this phase?

At the moment, I'm most convinced that dizzy fits into the baddie team. I have work to do, though, and I won't have time to do it until this time tomorrow (since I have spent all day cleaning the house for an open home, and now I have a sermon to write for tomorrow morning, and then I have a Survivor blog to write which I'm already late on).

There was a point when you said you'd feel comfortable lynching insertnamehere.

Do you still feel that way?

Marmot wrote:

Golden wrote:

Marmot wrote:

Golden wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Golden wrote:Read back and consider a marmot/dizzy team and see what you think.

Golden, can you expand on this dynamic you presented to INH and clarify your own present position?

I haven't had a chance to see if inh responded. I looked into this myself and perceive dizzy is marmots most likely teammate if marmot was bad. I'm not convinced narnitbis bad though. Dizzy is currently odds on for my vote today.

Can you offer a good reason to not vote for insertnamehere this phase?

At the moment, I'm most convinced that dizzy fits into the baddie team. I have work to do, though, and I won't have time to do it until this time tomorrow (since I have spent all day cleaning the house for an open home, and now I have a sermon to write for tomorrow morning, and then I have a Survivor blog to write which I'm already late on).

There was a point when you said you'd feel comfortable lynching insertnamehere.

Do you still feel that way?

My strong expectation at this point is that the team is inh/dizzy. But I feel like there is still a lack of thoroughness in my opinion.

But it's also lylo, so I want to be measured and make the best decision I can one at a time.

I also want to test each combo...

inh/dizzy
inh/Marmot
inh/Jay
dizzy/jay
dizzy/marmot
Jay/marmot

At the moment, I think more of the dizzy combos remain open to me than the inh combos. That's why I'm leaning more towards dizzy right now. But, again, lack of thoroughness...

Also, RIP speedchuck. You were the best of us.

Alright, I'm going out tonight, so I won't really have the time to be around before tomorrow, but I do have time tomorrow. Would be cool if all considering voting me writes out why and what they think I'm not addressing to their satisfaction. I really want to prove that I'm town to whoever else of you that are.

Dyslexicon wrote:Alright, I'm going out tonight, so I won't really have the time to be around before tomorrow, but I do have time tomorrow. Would be cool if all considering voting me writes out why and what they think I'm not addressing to their satisfaction. I really want to prove that I'm town to whoever else of you that are.

I am not clear on what your reads are right now. What are your reads?

Same question for you, Marmot. I know of your INH suspicion, what do you think of the others right now?

I'm taking a look at the possible dynamics, similar to the method Golden discussed up there. I'll use Taco Bell sauces to indicate my feelings.

Dizzy/Elohden -- Eloh didn't mention Dizzy, and Dizzy didn't say much about Eloh. On Day 2 Dizzy included Eloh in the bad side of their POE list. That's really it between those two. The rest comes after Golden joined the game, in an interaction which is largely characterized by a questioning Golden and an answering Dizzy. It's one-sided in that way, which is similar to my own dialogue with Dizzy in recent memory. I don't know that most distancing I encounter takes on that appearance. This is plausible but not inspiring.

Dizzy/Marmot -- Their earliest interaction was pretty chummy with the cat gifs and the raisins. The most pressing moment is probably that coming after the Luke kill, when Marmot voiced suspicion of Dizzy as a result of that kill. In the event that they're teammates, Marmot being the one to push that implication first would be a hard distancing move. The necessity of such a thing would be questionable, since I think Dizzy was held in relatively high regard by a number of players before that kill. It'd represent Marmot getting out in front of the backlash, but I am not sure that's as likely as Marmot simply making an observation and pursuing it genuinely -- something not indicative of a teammate relationship.

Dizzy/INH -- INH had Dizzy as a town read on Day 2. There isn't content preceding that read to foretell it or to suggest a progression or development. He supported Dizzy's proposed mafia team of Marmot and I on Day 4. Dizzy made note of INH's absence a few times on Day 1, at one time they called him a neutral read that they forgot was playing. On Night 1 they voiced their retrospective disinterest in an INH lynch because of his inactivity. On Day 2 Dizzy placed INH on the green side of the POE. When Golden requested a team dynamic on Night 4, Dizzy started with Marmot/JJJ and switched to Marmot/INH. That's rather sloppy if they're teammates. Generally I do think this interaction is mafia-compatible. They were mutually supportive without visibly progressed reads after the first day.

Elohden/Marmot -- Eloh didn't mention Marmot. Marmot dropped a flier vote on her on Day 1, though it was in OT color so I don't know what that was. He chose INH over Eloh as a lurker deserving a vote on Day 1. Golden has discussed Marmot as a candidate on a few occasions without stating specifics yet. Marmot has pressed Golden a little bit on his stance on INH. The content is limited here. I'd call it a plausible dynamic.

Elohden/INH -- Elohcin showed up late on Day 1 and placed a self-preservation vote on INH. The occurrence looks organic to me. I don't struggle to envision Eloh logging in, seeing herself with a few votes, and then plopping a vote down on a counterwagon without looking over whatever discussion is happening or has happened. In that regard I think that's a decent indicator that these two can be dissociated; such a careless self-preservation vote is less likely to appear among teammates. If I recall correctly there were other counterwagons available too for nutella and FZ. INH placed her in the center of his Day 2 rainbow. Golden has voiced suspicion of INH as a pair with Dizzy. That Eloh vote is the most telling to me.

Marmot/INH -- Marmot spoke on Day 1 of our recent trend around here of successful lynches of low posters, and he focused the crosshairs on INH for that starting mid-late Day 1. He has carried that suspicion through the game to this point, taking issue with INH's rainbow on Day 2 and associating him with me, and that was his Day 3 vote prior to FZ's claim. INH called Marmot one of his top two mafia reads with FZ, and if all three are bad then that is very hard distancing. I'm not sure that's likely. He agreed with Dizzy's suggestion of a Marmot/JJJ mafia team. They've been at each other's throats for a while. I lean away from this being a teammate relationship.

Put them all together, and Dizzy emerges as the one with the interactions that look most compatible. I see at least one possibility for the other three which is plausible. Marmot probably emerges looking the best, because the most believable interaction I see for him happens to be with Elohden -- a dynamic pairing the two players I dissociated most from FZ. INH looks compatible with Dizzy, otherwise I don't see as much. Golden has a couple plausible dynamics; neither one is particularly moving though.

lol I forgot my Taco Bell sauces.

You get the point, man.

Voting Dizzy.

It'll be important for the civilians to vote as a group to minimize any chance of opportunistic mafia voting in the end. I won't be here at EOD so my final decision is going to have to come earlier. Marmot, sell me on an INH vote instead.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:It'll be important for the civilians to vote as a group to minimize any chance of opportunistic mafia voting in the end. I won't be here at EOD so my final decision is going to have to come earlier. Marmot, sell me on an INH vote instead.

Here is my case from the other day on insertnamehere.

Below are all of his posts since then.
I do have a couple problems with these posts.

Insertnamehere pops in on Day 3 saying "Looks like we've got a choice between Long Con and FZ, and we've got to figure out who to believe." Here's the thing. FZ had just claimed cop and this was all Long Con had to say in response before this post from inh. The cop claim looked legit to me. Long Con had yet to make a rebuttal, yet inh had already suggested that FZ was lying and Long Con was going to have a reasonable defense. LC gave no inclination that he would have a reason for us to believe him, just responded with a chuckle. This suggests inh had prior knowledge of what was to be,

Insertnamehere has interacted with/responded to two players since Day 1: Epignosis and Dyslexicon. That's four whole day phases! Epignosis is now dead, and jury's still out on Dyslexicon. But inh knows he's liable to be lynched, and admitted such multiple times, even going so far as to suspect me for it. I believe his lack of interactions are a means of not drawing lines between himself and whoever his teammate is.



I have many reasons to vote insertname here, and no reason not to (feel free to give me one).

He also has not responded to my case, nor any case made against him.

insertnamehere wrote:RAYNEBOA

insertnamehere
Dyslexicon
Epignosis
Luke11646
Elochin
speedchuck
Long Con
DrWilgy
JaggedJimmyJay
Marmot
FZ.

FZ's response to the attacks struck me as less than convincing. Same thing with Marmot throwing my name around as an easy target. He seems a little lazy to me. Same with 3J, who seems to have abandoned the Vompatti gameplay for something more milquetoast and demanding of others.

Dys and Epi are my two townreads, and FZ/Marmot would be my preferred lynch.

I also want to point something else out. Inh made this rainbow on Day 2.

Assuming inh is bad, I doubt he would list both of his teammates at the bottom of the rainbow. So I think this looks good for Jay (and yes myself too, not what I'm trying to get at here). So if he is a little scummuffin, I'd change my mind about Jay, and look between Dizzy and Golden/Elohcin was the final teammate.

EBWOP: ...as the final teammate.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Spoiler: show

Dyslexicon wrote:I highly disagree that they were illegible any more than early reads are, and will continue to give reads just the way I want in future games.

I encourage you to play however you want to play. If you're to claim though that your .gif reads had any relevant meaning, then please clarify what all of them were meant to convey.

They were all early pretty low-key feels. FZ and Nut's was a rejection of the kind of tryhard or posting to post that I felt. Don't remember the other ones, though I remember already having a positive impression of LC. What is the issue here though? Do you think me posting reads in cats is AI?

Spoiler: show

Dyslexicon wrote:I realize self meta is unhelpful in game. Anyone who wants can have a link to my last scum game to see what that looks like if they want. The reason this point in particular is something I don't see myself doing as scum, maybe especially surrounded by so many players I don't know well, is just that I as most players am image conscious as scum, so outright supporting a teammate that was highly suspecting this blantantly just would look bad. What you see is my immediate reaction to reading that post. Yeah, it was wrong, but it was a town reaction. I also think you're a good enough player to understand why I would not want to do this if I was scum without my explaining it to you, I think it was implied in my first post. Whether you believe me or not is another question, and whether you want to or not is a third.

I don't necessarily think self-meta is unhelpful. I do believe that some players do report on their own meta in times of crisis or pressure in ways that are genuine, and indeed they are often discarded too quickly for fear of WIFOM. I am inviting you to talk about this because I am willing to listen to it. On the matter of FZ, your early reception of her wasn't especially "supportive" -- the specific example we're discussing here was, but I wouldn't call that thematic of your treatment of her. I think you covered a wide spectrum with her; to include questioning her, voting for her, and supporting her. The breadth of that spectrum isn't necessarily a problem, but it does stand against the point you're giving me here: that you were "outright supporting" of her full stop while she was under suspicion.

I don't like the highlighted portion. You've implied that my motivation for discussing this with you is insincere, but you haven't actually said that, while also asking that I read your mind (to know how you'd explain something before you've explained it to me).

My point is that my reaction to FZ was genuine and I feel (and I always do this "you should be able to" and I realize it's annoying I'm doing it anyway) that it should be possible to see that. I'm implying just what is on my mind because I DON'T know whether you're sincere, and I do feel that my reason for why exactly this point that you brought up should clear me rather than condemn me was implied. Does that make sense to you?

Spoiler: show

Dyslexicon wrote:I have a question for you: Do you think you've sorted me out? I have more questions than that, but want to start there.

I don't think I've "sorted you out". I think you're a suspect. I think I need to engage in this dialogue with you to maximize my chances of making the correct judgment. What is the purpose of this question?

Well that is good. Because if you're town and you're voting me, then there is really no point in me spending a lot of time I don't really have right now on this game. So purely selfish reasons.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:This day phase might be a shit sandwich for me. I have some time tonight and maybe tomorrow afternoon. Tomorrow night I'll be away though, and I'll be on a plane scheduled to depart the gate at almost exactly the deadline of this lynch on Sunday. This might be my busiest week or two until autumn when I start PhD hell.

It's important that we field as thorough a conversation as we can today as a group. It's LyLo, meaning we cannot afford to have a single civilian final vote on another civilian. Let's try to give ourselves the best chance we can here. I understand that folks are busy, so am I.

Then I ask you to please keep an open min in regards to me.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Dyslexicon wrote:Also, I voted for FZ the whole fucking time EoD. I only voted JJJ when LC asked me to. Was this unclear somehow? I get that you are confirmed town, but god damn.

Dizzy, what inspired the frustration you were displaying here? Given that you knew Epi was confirmed, you had no reason to distrust his motives when he was questioning you.

It was exactly because I didn't distrust his motives that I got pissed. He was acting like I was definitely scum AND he outright misrepresented facts in the process. Being town doesn't make your reasoning or conclusions right and his tone towards me just upset me. That isn't meant as criticism towards him really, just explaining how I felt.

@Golden - I really want to hear why you think I'm the one who fits best into a scum team. I know you're short on time, but it would help me if you can explain your thought process on this.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Dyslexicon wrote:Alright, I'm going out tonight, so I won't really have the time to be around before tomorrow, but I do have time tomorrow. Would be cool if all considering voting me writes out why and what they think I'm not addressing to their satisfaction. I really want to prove that I'm town to whoever else of you that are.

I am not clear on what your reads are right now. What are your reads?

I'm not entirely clear what my reads are either. Yay. I looked through FZs posts and there's not a whole lot I got out of it. Almost no mention of Marmot, brief interaction with Eloh early on but nothing meaningful apart from that, asks about a case on INH and it's unclear whether he was advocating for a lynch on him or not here:

FZ. wrote:And there's INH, who after his initial joking around and harping on the Epi-LC back and forth, hasn't said much since. I hate lynching someone who is not around. It didn't end well last game when we lynched SVS, but I'd rather lynch someone I'm not sure about and is not contributing at all, than someone who I'm a little more suspicious of but is trying harder and will be a bigger loss if we're wrong.

Thoughts on this?

I do think her posts looks better for you as it looks to me like she's talking to you as if you're town. Judging from that you would be the more likely to be town in this instance based on reading FZ. But I still haven't gone through your posts and also LC (I think?) mentioned that you could've been distancing.

Further I went through Marmot's posts and also Eloh's.
Marmot has been very consistent in going after INH. On the surface that looks not teamed to me, but then the fact that it is so consistent has be second guess that. Would like your or any other opinion on that if you ISO Marmot and his realtion to INH.

Eloh voted INH for self preservation in a way that to me looked like they were not teamed, so that would mean Golden/INH is an unlikely pair. I think if INH is scum it's with Marmot or you.

I still haven't gone through yours or INH's posts and will have to do that later tonight as I'm busy this evening.

What I have so far as most likely scum pairing is Marmot/Golden. What really sucks is that if I'm right about that then I think town will lose. And if I'm wrong I also think we'll lose. So that's not very encouraging. And probably not the best mindset and whatnot. I promise to try still, it's just a bit ugh. I wish there was something I could say that would just autoclear me.

@JJJ - I see that you've basically answered some of the questions I had in your analysis. I'm not scum, I could say that until I was blue in the face, I don't know what I should say or do other than what I've done the entire game. I'm not clear on why you discossiate Marmot and Golden from FZ though?

Me waiting to see if Dizzy responds to the inh case.

Marmot wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:It'll be important for the civilians to vote as a group to minimize any chance of opportunistic mafia voting in the end. I won't be here at EOD so my final decision is going to have to come earlier. Marmot, sell me on an INH vote instead.

Here is my case from the other day on insertnamehere.

Below are all of his posts since then.

Spoiler: show

Day 3:

insertnamehere wrote:Hmm.

Looks like today comes down to a simple decision of who to believe- FZ or LC.

I'm gonna look at the posting histories of both before making a decision.

insertnamehere wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Epignosis wrote:I'm the real cop and 3J is bad. I forgot to send in my other PMs though. Sorry.

Nope. Cut that shit out. What do you think of FZ/LC?

I think you and LC should be lynched.

I've been of the opinion that FZ. is good based on her reaction to the Day 1 effort against her.

If FZ is good, why is she fakeclaiming? Are you calling it an earnest self-sacrifice to help the civilians?

insertnamehere wrote:Going with the option that provides the least leaps of logic.

Occam's razor, don't fail me now.

Night 3:

insertnamehere wrote:Well fuckity fuck.

Day 4:

insertnamehere wrote:Voting FZ.

I realize based on FZ's treatment of me in her posts, and my shit voting record, there's a decent amount of feces directed at me that I can't really defend myself from. Instead, I have to hope that you all don't go for the easy target, and instead vote out the confirmed liar.

insertnamehere wrote:

Dyslexicon wrote:

Golden wrote:Dizzy, gun to head, who is the baddie team?

Marmot and JJJ.
Gun to head. BUT I haven't done the work and looked through the FZ-stuff.

This'd be my GTH baddie team too. Plus FZ of course.

Night 4:

insertnamehere wrote:Another vote for no

I do have a couple problems with these posts.

Insertnamehere pops in on Day 3 saying "Looks like we've got a choice between Long Con and FZ, and we've got to figure out who to believe." Here's the thing. FZ had just claimed cop and this was all Long Con had to say in response before this post from inh. The cop claim looked legit to me. Long Con had yet to make a rebuttal, yet inh had already suggested that FZ was lying and Long Con was going to have a reasonable defense. LC gave no inclination that he would have a reason for us to believe him, just responded with a chuckle. This suggests inh had prior knowledge of what was to be,

Insertnamehere has interacted with/responded to two players since Day 1: Epignosis and Dyslexicon. That's four whole day phases! Epignosis is now dead, and jury's still out on Dyslexicon. But inh knows he's liable to be lynched, and admitted such multiple times, even going so far as to suspect me for it. I believe his lack of interactions are a means of not drawing lines between himself and whoever his teammate is.



I have many reasons to vote insertname here, and no reason not to (feel free to give me one).

He also has not responded to my case, nor any case made against him.

I thought FZ was making a pretty bold claim that directly cast shade upon LC, so I had to decide whether to take his word for it, or trust LC. A vote for LC was a decision to stand with FZ, in my eyes.

Yes, I've been pretty AWOL this game. Doesn't make me bad.

Riddle me this, Marmot: Who is my baddie teammate? According to 3J, the only feasible candidate is Dys, yet you want 3J to change his vote away from him, and towards me.

That seems kinda fishy, IMO.

One thing to keep in mind, if one of the baddies begins to receive heat in the thread, the other baddie is gonna swoop in to push a different case.

If Dys is bad, I could see Marmot being his teammate.

Blarg. I'm gonna re-read 3J, and essentially check him for possible teammate interactions, similar to how checked everyone else but himself. Gotta eat lunch first, so expect that post at about 3:00pm CST.

insertnamehere wrote:

Marmot wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:It'll be important for the civilians to vote as a group to minimize any chance of opportunistic mafia voting in the end. I won't be here at EOD so my final decision is going to have to come earlier. Marmot, sell me on an INH vote instead.

Here is my case from the other day on insertnamehere.

Below are all of his posts since then.

Spoiler: show

Day 3:

insertnamehere wrote:Hmm.

Looks like today comes down to a simple decision of who to believe- FZ or LC.

I'm gonna look at the posting histories of both before making a decision.

insertnamehere wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Epignosis wrote:I'm the real cop and 3J is bad. I forgot to send in my other PMs though. Sorry.

Nope. Cut that shit out. What do you think of FZ/LC?

I think you and LC should be lynched.

I've been of the opinion that FZ. is good based on her reaction to the Day 1 effort against her.

If FZ is good, why is she fakeclaiming? Are you calling it an earnest self-sacrifice to help the civilians?

insertnamehere wrote:Going with the option that provides the least leaps of logic.

Occam's razor, don't fail me now.

Night 3:

insertnamehere wrote:Well fuckity fuck.

Day 4:

insertnamehere wrote:Voting FZ.

I realize based on FZ's treatment of me in her posts, and my shit voting record, there's a decent amount of feces directed at me that I can't really defend myself from. Instead, I have to hope that you all don't go for the easy target, and instead vote out the confirmed liar.

insertnamehere wrote:

Dyslexicon wrote:

Golden wrote:Dizzy, gun to head, who is the baddie team?

Marmot and JJJ.
Gun to head. BUT I haven't done the work and looked through the FZ-stuff.

This'd be my GTH baddie team too. Plus FZ of course.

Night 4:

insertnamehere wrote:Another vote for no

I do have a couple problems with these posts.

Insertnamehere pops in on Day 3 saying "Looks like we've got a choice between Long Con and FZ, and we've got to figure out who to believe." Here's the thing. FZ had just claimed cop and this was all Long Con had to say in response before this post from inh. The cop claim looked legit to me. Long Con had yet to make a rebuttal, yet inh had already suggested that FZ was lying and Long Con was going to have a reasonable defense. LC gave no inclination that he would have a reason for us to believe him, just responded with a chuckle. This suggests inh had prior knowledge of what was to be,

Insertnamehere has interacted with/responded to two players since Day 1: Epignosis and Dyslexicon. That's four whole day phases! Epignosis is now dead, and jury's still out on Dyslexicon. But inh knows he's liable to be lynched, and admitted such multiple times, even going so far as to suspect me for it. I believe his lack of interactions are a means of not drawing lines between himself and whoever his teammate is.



I have many reasons to vote insertname here, and no reason not to (feel free to give me one).

He also has not responded to my case, nor any case made against him.

I thought FZ was making a pretty bold claim that directly cast shade upon LC, so I had to decide whether to take his word for it, or trust LC. A vote for LC was a decision to stand with FZ, in my eyes.

Yes, I've been pretty AWOL this game. Doesn't make me bad.

Riddle me this, Marmot: Who is my baddie teammate? According to 3J, the only feasible candidate is Dys, yet you want 3J to change his vote away from him, and towards me.

That seems kinda fishy, IMO.

I think you're more likely to bencounter mafia than Dizzy. Thus I'd rather lynch you. Also note that Jay asked me to sell him on a vote for you. I'd still promote it anyway, but he did specifically ask for it. Not sure why you're calling me out for responding in kind.

What is that autocorrect?

Bencounter = be!

You avoided the question, Marmot.

You think I'm bad. Who's my teammate?

I don't get the apprehension on your part to name another name.

insertnamehere wrote:You avoided the question, Marmot.

You think I'm bad. Who's my teammate?

I don't get the apprehension on your part to name another name.

I've already answered that. At this moment, I don't think it's Jay, leaving Golden or Dizzy as the candidates. But between those two, I'd give Dizzy the slight edge, due mainly to his own actions, not based on interactions with you.

If I'm bad inh, who's my teammate?

Marmot wrote:

insertnamehere wrote:You avoided the question, Marmot.

You think I'm bad. Who's my teammate?

I don't get the apprehension on your part to name another name.

I've already answered that. At this moment, I don't think it's Jay, leaving Golden or Dizzy as the candidates. But between those two, I'd give Dizzy the slight edge, due mainly to his own actions, not based on interactions with you.

If I'm bad inh, who's my teammate?

I'd say Dizzy, but I could also possibly see 3J. I'll report back after I ISO him.

At the moment, we have a dizzy/inh dichotomy, with jay and marmot voting one each.

What I feel like really has to be tested in the next few hours, is a marmot/jay team. This is a perfect play for ending the game and winning right here if it's the pair of them.

I'm sorry I just haven't had time or been around to do much. I'm so busy, much busier even than I expected when I agreed to sub in.

Nah, I'm not inspired by that. Marmot and Jay's isos, on reread, I remember exactly why I started thinking they looked town.

Jay went after FZ early, in a way that feels organic and unnecessary if teammates. As far as distancing that could amount to bussing goes, I'll rarely believe it from a rational player like Jay unless I can see the benefit at the time. While I guess you could say there would be a benefit right now (I'm giving Jay a town read at lylo), there seems like there would be more risk than reward in the moment.

As for marmot, there was that post asking MP an unnecessary question just before he died. Now, I think it's fairly common for baddies to ask people questions just before they die (it's functional distancing from the kill), marmot's was questioning why MP was reading him as town. It's a counterintuitive question to be asking someone who is just about to die... you'd want to head into the death with the town read, unquestioned.

So I come back to dizzy and inh right now. Dizzy is by far the one I'm most inspired to vote.

@Dizzy - my feelings on you are quite simple. I need to do a full iso still, but your desire to lynch one of the cop claims (FZ and epi) made no sense from a townie. I was an external observer, but even so... epi's claim was weak, FZ's claim was strong, your desire to lynch one of the cop claims made no sense even in the moment, and I only come out of that whole exchange with one sense - that you wanted to get some potential cred for lynching FZ. I've not seen you play too many games yet, but I have felt a sense of assurance from you when civ that has been lacking this game, I'm not sure I could put my finger precisely on it. Plus your defences are reminiscent of me when I'm bad.

In addition to that, I have difficulty seeing so many people that INH is a team with, but I could see you being a team with virtually anyone at this point. Your connections are much more plausible than others.

I'm going to vote for you, and hope I'm right.

Golden wrote:At the moment, we have a dizzy/inh dichotomy, with jay and marmot voting one each.

What I feel like really has to be tested in the next few hours, is a marmot/jay team. This is a perfect play for ending the game and winning right here if it's the pair of them.

I'm sorry I just haven't had time or been around to do much. I'm so busy, much busier even than I expected when I agreed to sub in.

I mean, vote where your heart desires, but I'd advise you to not put the tinfoil hat on if you don't have time to research it.

Linki: haha, we'll never mind then.

If the team is marmot/jay - good game well played. I could see it based on how today played out, but I can't make a lylo vote based on tinfoil, when there are other players who look much worse.

If the team is marmot/inh - I'm baffled.

If the team is jay/inh... well, I just got unlucky and trusted Jay too much in pushing this towards dizzy not inh. Epi's case on inh was pretty damn good and maybe that's the way I should have been looking (but hey, epi was also clearing Jay).

Any other team has dizzy in it.