The Emperor's Soul [D5]

[Scotty]

Falcon made the point that I was looking to make today, which is: Rico should not be cleared here, despite his insistence that he should.

I’ve been fooled by a super busser several times recently where the town collectively decided ‘oh, that makes no sense to come from a partner’.

But think about the game state. There’s only 2 wolves. If someone is going down eventually, as Epi was most likely, the partner has to get to the end. How does one do that? Hedging, if you don’t want to ever bus. Or make a direct attack on your partner when it seems unlikely.

Let’s look at the peripherals:
Rico suddenly became a sentient human today, which is a departure from the…odd, fragmented posts reminiscent of Pinocchio first coming to life that he made all prior to epi’s demise.
He’s suddenly ready to play the game. How convenient.

If rico is wolf and wants to win the game, by just slanking into the ethers, he’s for sure doomed.

I’m gonna continue my iso of interactions but Rico is actually at the top of my list atm

[Thunal33]

Epi spew ISO:

Spoiler: show

Now that Sean has left, I do think Scotty's townie.

I think his observation on Epi is the towniest thing in the thread thus far. For a bit, I thought his posts fell into the "posting performatively for the sake of it" camp, but his observation on Epi was pretty insightful and while I think he could match the tone as a wolf there, I don't think he would necessarily match the reasoning there is a wolf.

Scotty town.

My posts are always performative. I’m an actor

Q: do you think Epignosis would, as mafia, make such a flagrant error as to come in with big steel balls having not read the rules and then announcing that he is a ‘moron’?

Was it an error?

Slight bad look for Scotty that Epi felt comfortable asking that to him.

Just kidding. I have posts to burn.

It was this post:

Town brad is loud about his reads and makes it clear that they have reasons even if they're silly reasons. Lime's approach to me here was to simply ignore the request for any actual reasoning after I pointed out that his reasoning was nonsensical. People other than me might just not notice what he was doing as so egregious, but from where I'm sitting it sure felt like he made up justifications for his readlist and had no vested interest in backing them up when prompted. He was flippant, and flippancy does not always necessarily equal wolfiness, but I cannot locate a town motivation for his behavior.

There's so much "BURY THIS GUY (but but but)."

I think nutella is looking for an easy mark (no offense, Lime Coke)

Slightly good look for Nutella.

Y'all should have voted Epi. Perhaps we should do that today in honor of Dizzy.

I'm not mafia and I think you know that. But knock yourself out.

Sorry about the condescension- I’m just kinda disappointed we just lost our PRs with no real trade off and dealing with the fact that there’s nothing to solve any more and I’ve now been tricked into playing a mountainous game. I hate mountainous

Scotty isn't mafia.

This is when Epi starts townreading Scotty.

nutella is my top pick to go today. Discuss.

why

I said discuss. Not ask questions.

Slight - for Syn.

her reaction to the LC situation was townie IMO

if she's your TOP pick, there must be a reason

I'm working on the post. Hold your horses.

Slight good look for Syn.

Spoiler: show

It could be marmot. I don't love their reactions/progressions. On the other hand they kinda seem organic.

It could be Marmot.

I did not love Epi's posturing during the shit fest either. Felt like he was bullying me, possibly from a position of TMI on Lime.

It could be me.

I do not know why Dizzy and SVS are being dismissed. They are both well within their scum ranges and I'd prefer if more people seriously scrutinized them rather than tossing their names to the side for no apparent reason. It would kind of be an elim out of fear but it kinda feels like the alternative is shrugyeeting the 1 poster.

It could be S~V~S or Dizzy.

Thunal, Seanzie, and Scotty I would say are townreads atm with some paranoia. Thunal maybe slightly more likely wolf meta than the other two.

It could be these three people ("some paranoia").

I view this as nutella leaving her options as open as they can be. She lost Lime Coke in his revelation.

So my preferences are something like
One of Dizzy/Epi - I would like to see these flips the most. I kind of think they are as close as we have to a Macdougall patented difference check. If there isn't a wolf in Dizzy/Epi then I recuse myself from having any grasp on this whole damn game lol. Maybe there isn't much basis for that but vibes.

If nutella is a civilian, I don't understand the basis for pairing Dyslexicon and me together in this manner and then excusing herself from figuring anything out further when she is proven incorrect.

And from posts in this catchup I'm leaning more to Epi now than Dizzy. Idk.
-----
SVS - I am paranoid but do not have a direct reason to want to flip first. If the above two are clean she's where I'd look next, mostly by POE, but at that point I get more paranoid of my paranoia tier too.
Rico - Coin fuckin flip idc. The back of my head is invoking the "did he just forget about the game and is that more likely town" but that's somewhat angley and not much worth weighing in.
Marmot - Meh?
-----
Everyone else I'd prefer not to die today probably.

.....Shit idk. Maybe I'm not as sure on falcon. Maybe the wolves are just all in my paranoia tier. I feel likely to 180 on just about anyone at any point. I hate this game.

(Full disclosure: I edited things out of this post that weren't relevant to the point I was making)

This looks quite good for Nutella imo. If Epi were pushing a partner here, I think he’d make a better case. It’s harder as a wolf to find evidence against townies than it is to find evidence against wolves, and this case gave me the feeling he was struggling for evidence.

underwhelming tbh

Slightly good for Syn imo. I think if they were partners Epi would say more.

Too bad that Scotty isn't mafia.

This insistence that Scotty isn't mafia to the point where Epi's worldview revolves around it feels a little too level 1 for Epi/Scotty partners.

@Epignosis if you are town, which I am not inclined to believe at the moment: I encourage you to fully read my exchange with Scotty. I encourage you to make any effort to see town POV in my posts, rather than cherrypicking what you dislike and dipping. I encourage you to broaden your scope of engagement with the topics of discussion in the thread. I encourage you to provide thoughts on other players and on more than a surface level. What I've seen from you today is uninspiring and looks like a mafia member finding a single gripe to poke at while ignoring the full tapestry of interactions and not stopping to think about how townies actually think. Use your theory of mind. If you're actually town, show that you care because it certainly doesn't look like you do.

I don't care about being inspiring.

I'll do what you ask when I have a chance.

Good look for Nutella.

I don't think falcon or Scotty is mafia.

Slightly bad look for Falcon.

nutella seems to like Scotty so far.

Okay, on nutella's third page, there's a turn against Scotty.

I don't see it. Sorry nut.

Slight good look for both nutella and Scotty.

Okay, on nutella's third page, there's a turn against Scotty.

I don't see it. Sorry nut.

See what?

I don't need you to agree with my thoughts. I just wanted you to see that I had them. Since you had such a shallow understanding of my play.

I mean I have Scotty as a civilian. That's all. I'm sorry I misunderstood.

Good look for Nutella.

Ricochet has three fucking posts and I have two votes. Amazing.

Some WIFOM in this, but I’d GTH say it’s a good look for Rico.

In case I go over, here you go:

Falcon - Good
Marmot - Bad
Nutella - Bad (Still owe a reread though)
Ricochet- ???
Scotty - Good
S~V~S - ???
Syn - Purple
Thunal - Bad

Good look for Syn and Nutella.

I think this is very good for Nutella. There's a lot of moments where Epi is addressing Nutella like someone he knows is town and actually is trying to convince. Him making an underwhelming case on her, being confused about her Scotty read, and apologizing to her are all things that it's possible he could have faked with a partner individually, but I highly doubt he faked all of them with the same person.

It looks somewhat good for Scotty as well. It's possible his constant townread on Scotty was WIFOM or he was just dedicated to defending his partner, but it's not a good wolf strategy imo. Him not just townreading Scotty but building his read on Nutella from his read on Scotty is something that's a bit hard to fake.

I had a ping from Epi's banter with Syn because it felt like he had a need to interact with him, but there are a couple micro moments that looked good for Syn like asking Syn to wait for the Nutella post and putting Syn as "purple" in his readslist.

There's not much with Falcon but they could easily be teamed imo. I had a slight ping from Epi putting Falcon into one of his posts saying Scotty isn't mafia.

[Scotty]

I think SVS and Thunal make up the towncore at this stage.
I’d almost throw falcon in there too.

Syn seems to be the obvious choice. Everything points to Syn, and hell, even Syn admits to it.

It’s a little too on the nose. He’s still in the POE tho:

I'm too soft. I don't want to snapvote Scotty anymore.


Holding Epi to the fire for the rest of the day.

So look, I’ve said my peace. And I have 2 posts left. If people still want to vote me while I’m gone I’ve talked a lot and I won’t feel bad if I do go over without me even being around.

If Epi goes over today, and is wolf, I’m looking at Syn and Thunal as partners.
If Epi wolf, falcon is almost never wolf here imo. This goes with both not having read the rules, and I already surmise one mafia is paying attention.

I stand by my falcon read. But this puts a (slight) wrinkle in my rico suspicion. It could be that one or both rico/Epi have been paying attention.

sorry for not posting, but I think I know who I’m voting and that’s marmot. it seems marmot was trying to get there way then when everyone found that out marmot tried to say that they were just saying what they thought. That’s why I’m voting [VOTE: marmot. ] aubergine

this post, while rushed and concise, at least shows that he has paid a modicum of attention to the thread enough to note something marmot was doing.

[Scotty]

Spoiler: show

Epi spew ISO:

Spoiler: show

Now that Sean has left, I do think Scotty's townie.

I think his observation on Epi is the towniest thing in the thread thus far. For a bit, I thought his posts fell into the "posting performatively for the sake of it" camp, but his observation on Epi was pretty insightful and while I think he could match the tone as a wolf there, I don't think he would necessarily match the reasoning there is a wolf.

Scotty town.

My posts are always performative. I’m an actor

Q: do you think Epignosis would, as mafia, make such a flagrant error as to come in with big steel balls having not read the rules and then announcing that he is a ‘moron’?

Was it an error?

Slight bad look for Scotty that Epi felt comfortable asking that to him.

Just kidding. I have posts to burn.

It was this post:

Town brad is loud about his reads and makes it clear that they have reasons even if they're silly reasons. Lime's approach to me here was to simply ignore the request for any actual reasoning after I pointed out that his reasoning was nonsensical. People other than me might just not notice what he was doing as so egregious, but from where I'm sitting it sure felt like he made up justifications for his readlist and had no vested interest in backing them up when prompted. He was flippant, and flippancy does not always necessarily equal wolfiness, but I cannot locate a town motivation for his behavior.

There's so much "BURY THIS GUY (but but but)."

I think nutella is looking for an easy mark (no offense, Lime Coke)

Slightly good look for Nutella.

Y'all should have voted Epi. Perhaps we should do that today in honor of Dizzy.

I'm not mafia and I think you know that. But knock yourself out.

Sorry about the condescension- I’m just kinda disappointed we just lost our PRs with no real trade off and dealing with the fact that there’s nothing to solve any more and I’ve now been tricked into playing a mountainous game. I hate mountainous

Scotty isn't mafia.

This is when Epi starts townreading Scotty.

nutella is my top pick to go today. Discuss.

why

I said discuss. Not ask questions.

Slight - for Syn.

her reaction to the LC situation was townie IMO

if she's your TOP pick, there must be a reason

I'm working on the post. Hold your horses.

Slight good look for Syn.

Spoiler: show

It could be marmot. I don't love their reactions/progressions. On the other hand they kinda seem organic.

It could be Marmot.

I did not love Epi's posturing during the shit fest either. Felt like he was bullying me, possibly from a position of TMI on Lime.

It could be me.

I do not know why Dizzy and SVS are being dismissed. They are both well within their scum ranges and I'd prefer if more people seriously scrutinized them rather than tossing their names to the side for no apparent reason. It would kind of be an elim out of fear but it kinda feels like the alternative is shrugyeeting the 1 poster.

It could be S~V~S or Dizzy.

Thunal, Seanzie, and Scotty I would say are townreads atm with some paranoia. Thunal maybe slightly more likely wolf meta than the other two.

It could be these three people ("some paranoia").

I view this as nutella leaving her options as open as they can be. She lost Lime Coke in his revelation.

So my preferences are something like
One of Dizzy/Epi - I would like to see these flips the most. I kind of think they are as close as we have to a Macdougall patented difference check. If there isn't a wolf in Dizzy/Epi then I recuse myself from having any grasp on this whole damn game lol. Maybe there isn't much basis for that but vibes.

If nutella is a civilian, I don't understand the basis for pairing Dyslexicon and me together in this manner and then excusing herself from figuring anything out further when she is proven incorrect.

And from posts in this catchup I'm leaning more to Epi now than Dizzy. Idk.
-----
SVS - I am paranoid but do not have a direct reason to want to flip first. If the above two are clean she's where I'd look next, mostly by POE, but at that point I get more paranoid of my paranoia tier too.
Rico - Coin fuckin flip idc. The back of my head is invoking the "did he just forget about the game and is that more likely town" but that's somewhat angley and not much worth weighing in.
Marmot - Meh?
-----
Everyone else I'd prefer not to die today probably.

.....Shit idk. Maybe I'm not as sure on falcon. Maybe the wolves are just all in my paranoia tier. I feel likely to 180 on just about anyone at any point. I hate this game.

(Full disclosure: I edited things out of this post that weren't relevant to the point I was making)

This looks quite good for Nutella imo. If Epi were pushing a partner here, I think he’d make a better case. It’s harder as a wolf to find evidence against townies than it is to find evidence against wolves, and this case gave me the feeling he was struggling for evidence.

underwhelming tbh

Slightly good for Syn imo. I think if they were partners Epi would say more.

Too bad that Scotty isn't mafia.

This insistence that Scotty isn't mafia to the point where Epi's worldview revolves around it feels a little too level 1 for Epi/Scotty partners.

@Epignosis if you are town, which I am not inclined to believe at the moment: I encourage you to fully read my exchange with Scotty. I encourage you to make any effort to see town POV in my posts, rather than cherrypicking what you dislike and dipping. I encourage you to broaden your scope of engagement with the topics of discussion in the thread. I encourage you to provide thoughts on other players and on more than a surface level. What I've seen from you today is uninspiring and looks like a mafia member finding a single gripe to poke at while ignoring the full tapestry of interactions and not stopping to think about how townies actually think. Use your theory of mind. If you're actually town, show that you care because it certainly doesn't look like you do.

I don't care about being inspiring.

I'll do what you ask when I have a chance.

Good look for Nutella.

I don't think falcon or Scotty is mafia.

Slightly bad look for Falcon.

nutella seems to like Scotty so far.

Okay, on nutella's third page, there's a turn against Scotty.

I don't see it. Sorry nut.

Slight good look for both nutella and Scotty.

Okay, on nutella's third page, there's a turn against Scotty.

I don't see it. Sorry nut.

See what?

I don't need you to agree with my thoughts. I just wanted you to see that I had them. Since you had such a shallow understanding of my play.

I mean I have Scotty as a civilian. That's all. I'm sorry I misunderstood.

Good look for Nutella.

Ricochet has three fucking posts and I have two votes. Amazing.

Some WIFOM in this, but I’d GTH say it’s a good look for Rico.

In case I go over, here you go:

Falcon - Good
Marmot - Bad
Nutella - Bad (Still owe a reread though)
Ricochet- ???
Scotty - Good
S~V~S - ???
Syn - Purple
Thunal - Bad

Good look for Syn and Nutella.

I think this is very good for Nutella. There's a lot of moments where Epi is addressing Nutella like someone he knows is town and actually is trying to convince. Him making an underwhelming case on her, being confused about her Scotty read, and apologizing to her are all things that it's possible he could have faked with a partner individually, but I highly doubt he faked all of them with the same person.

It looks somewhat good for Scotty as well. It's possible his constant townread on Scotty was WIFOM or he was just dedicated to defending his partner, but it's not a good wolf strategy imo. Him not just townreading Scotty but building his read on Nutella from his read on Scotty is something that's a bit hard to fake.

I had a ping from Epi's banter with Syn because it felt like he had a need to interact with him, but there are a couple micro moments that looked good for Syn like asking Syn to wait for the Nutella post and putting Syn as "purple" in his readslist.

There's not much with Falcon but they could easily be teamed imo. I had a slight ping from Epi putting Falcon into one of his posts saying Scotty isn't mafia.

Good points RE nutella. I think nutella does come out of this net positive

[Thunal33]

I think SVS and Thunal make up the towncore at this stage.
I’d almost throw falcon in there too.

Syn seems to be the obvious choice. Everything points to Syn, and hell, even Syn admits to it.

It’s a little too on the nose. He’s still in the POE tho:

I'm too soft. I don't want to snapvote Scotty anymore.


Holding Epi to the fire for the rest of the day.

So look, I’ve said my peace. And I have 2 posts left. If people still want to vote me while I’m gone I’ve talked a lot and I won’t feel bad if I do go over without me even being around.

If Epi goes over today, and is wolf, I’m looking at Syn and Thunal as partners.
If Epi wolf, falcon is almost never wolf here imo. This goes with both not having read the rules, and I already surmise one mafia is paying attention.

I stand by my falcon read. But this puts a (slight) wrinkle in my rico suspicion. It could be that one or both rico/Epi have been paying attention.

sorry for not posting, but I think I know who I’m voting and that’s marmot. it seems marmot was trying to get there way then when everyone found that out marmot tried to say that they were just saying what they thought. That’s why I’m voting [VOTE: marmot. ] aubergine

this post, while rushed and concise, at least shows that he has paid a modicum of attention to the thread enough to note something marmot was doing.

I thought it was odd but not necessarily wolfy. It's not impossible that it's Rico but he looks pretty good because he had the deciding vote. I would have been a pretty high value and time critical mislim, and Rico doesn't even have to be following to know I'd look good if Epi died. My one experience with Rico he gave some thoughts but had a slow start, and then later he got interested in the game and put in a bunch of effort as town.

[Scotty]

I think SVS and Thunal make up the towncore at this stage.
I’d almost throw falcon in there too.

Syn seems to be the obvious choice. Everything points to Syn, and hell, even Syn admits to it.

It’s a little too on the nose. He’s still in the POE tho:

I'm too soft. I don't want to snapvote Scotty anymore.


Holding Epi to the fire for the rest of the day.

So look, I’ve said my peace. And I have 2 posts left. If people still want to vote me while I’m gone I’ve talked a lot and I won’t feel bad if I do go over without me even being around.

If Epi goes over today, and is wolf, I’m looking at Syn and Thunal as partners.
If Epi wolf, falcon is almost never wolf here imo. This goes with both not having read the rules, and I already surmise one mafia is paying attention.

I stand by my falcon read. But this puts a (slight) wrinkle in my rico suspicion. It could be that one or both rico/Epi have been paying attention.

sorry for not posting, but I think I know who I’m voting and that’s marmot. it seems marmot was trying to get there way then when everyone found that out marmot tried to say that they were just saying what they thought. That’s why I’m voting [VOTE: marmot. ] aubergine

this post, while rushed and concise, at least shows that he has paid a modicum of attention to the thread enough to note something marmot was doing.

I thought it was odd but not necessarily wolfy. It's not impossible that it's Rico but he looks pretty good because he had the deciding vote. I would have been a pretty high value and time critical mislim, and Rico doesn't even have to be following to know I'd look good if Epi died. My one experience with Rico he gave some thoughts but had a slow start, and then later he got interested in the game and put in a bunch of effort as town.

I don’t want you to waste your post counts but do you remember off hand that game? I have a terrible memory and have played with Rico since like..,2017?? But I don’t remember his meta.

It certainly isnt this same strategy.

“I would have been a pretty high value and time critical mislim”
But this is exactly the point I’m making- him voting out Epi at this crucial moment just ingratiates him into town core. This way he could conceivably make it farther into the game.

This mafia strategy could all fall apart however with a healthy level of skepticism that falcon and I have, especially if we go a few more nights with ‘lockclear’ rico not being NK’d. That’s a lose for sure.

Eh.

[Scotty]

ha it’s probably just Syn.

If I see his early reads from a wolf perspective, him continually planting his flag on me/thunal as a diff check and just occasionally poking that theory with a stick makes a whole lot of sense. That’s 2 mischops down most likely.

[Scotty]

Syn’s play today sounds so humble, too. Vibes are this guy:

[S~V~S]

The only way I see wolf Rico making the vote that yeeted Epi is if Epi no longer was able to play. And I don’t know that I can envision Epi sabotaging his partner in that way.

Rico could have voted Thunal, or he could have voted Syn. I don’t see any benefit from chucking his high value wolf partner, Epi, for cred.

Anything is possible but I think it’s really improbable.

I just read the last few posts, I’ll finish seeing Scotty’s catch up in the AM.

[Syn]

ha it’s probably just Syn.

If I see his early reads from a wolf perspective, him continually planting his flag on me/thunal as a diff check and just occasionally poking that theory with a stick makes a whole lot of sense. That’s 2 mischops down most likely.

Syn’s play today sounds so humble, too. Vibes are this guy:

please stop wasting your time casing me. I am already the chop. assume I'm town and solve what happens after I'm gone

since everyone has checked in, as well, I would not be opposed to being hammered around midday tomorrow once a real POE has been agreed on

[Syn]

scotty's approach today looks the worst IMO

[Scotty]

The only way I see wolf Rico making the vote that yeeted Epi is if Epi no longer was able to play. And I don’t know that I can envision Epi sabotaging his partner in that way.

Rico could have voted Thunal, or he could have voted Syn. I don’t see any benefit from chucking his high value wolf partner, Epi, for cred.

Anything is possible but I think it’s really improbable.

I just read the last few posts, I’ll finish seeing Scotty’s catch up in the AM.

Well read back a few more posts to how I lay out exactly what leveraging his partner for cred does for him

[Scotty]

ha it’s probably just Syn.

If I see his early reads from a wolf perspective, him continually planting his flag on me/thunal as a diff check and just occasionally poking that theory with a stick makes a whole lot of sense. That’s 2 mischops down most likely.

Syn’s play today sounds so humble, too. Vibes are this guy:

please stop wasting your time casing me. I am already the chop. assume I'm town and solve what happens after I'm gone

since everyone has checked in, as well, I would not be opposed to being hammered around midday tomorrow once a real POE has been agreed on

What’s your solve? Just laying down like the video I quoted above isn’t helpful to town if you’re actually town.

[Scotty]

scotty's approach today looks the worst IMO

go on

[Syn]

ha it’s probably just Syn.

If I see his early reads from a wolf perspective, him continually planting his flag on me/thunal as a diff check and just occasionally poking that theory with a stick makes a whole lot of sense. That’s 2 mischops down most likely.

Syn’s play today sounds so humble, too. Vibes are this guy:

please stop wasting your time casing me. I am already the chop. assume I'm town and solve what happens after I'm gone

since everyone has checked in, as well, I would not be opposed to being hammered around midday tomorrow once a real POE has been agreed on

What’s your solve? Just laying down like the video I quoted above isn’t helpful to town if you’re actually town.

describing my posting today as just laying down is disingenuous as hell

[Syn]

especially when you gave the good old college try at pushing elsewhere outside the POE, which my approach to this situation very specifically prevents anyone from trying to do

[Syn]

logically my POE is between you and Falcon, with Nutella as tinfoil potential

my focus is on seeing how you and Falcon interact, seeing who tries to wriggle their way out of it the worst

[Syn]

my approach to this day locks the last wolf into a certain course of action. me going over is a guarantee. there is no casing. there is no arguing. everyone has to spend their time solving with the idea in mind that I will flip green. who is going to try and resist that? who is going to try and set it up so that the POE can expand after I am gone and another voice gets NKed? how will the last wolf try and build a world that sees them alive at f3 with a chance to win?

[Syn]

"isn't helpful to town" my ass

[Scotty]

logically my POE is between you and Falcon, with Nutella as tinfoil potential

my focus is on seeing how you and Falcon interact, seeing who tries to wriggle their way out of it the worst

All around lol

So you’re telling me falcon and Epi both showed up to this game with a 360noscope vote on someone without reading the rules? Epi came in first, acknowledged he fucked up, and falcon posted his vote much later. You’re telling me falcon didn’t check scum chat OR said ‘CACAW’ (whatever sound falcons make) maybe I’ll dumbtell in thread too, won’t that be just a lollipalooza??’

I just perused Nutella’s iso, and she has a pretty hard push for Epi on d1. Even concluding something to the effect of ‘one in dizzy/Epi or I should just quit mafia, leaning Epi’. I don’t think nutella is teamed.

Please expand on why you think I’m teamed. I know why I can see that I have scum equity, but want to hear how you’re getting there

[Scotty]

especially when you gave the good old college try at pushing elsewhere outside the POE, which my approach to this situation very specifically prevents anyone from trying to do

“Push outside the POE” as if THE poe is what you dictate, eh?

Listen Syn, you seem to be taking the aggressive approach here that you are the sacrificial lamb, and I am not deadset on voting you. You seem to be bringing that upon yourself

[Scotty]

ha it’s probably just Syn.

If I see his early reads from a wolf perspective, him continually planting his flag on me/thunal as a diff check and just occasionally poking that theory with a stick makes a whole lot of sense. That’s 2 mischops down most likely.

Syn’s play today sounds so humble, too. Vibes are this guy:

please stop wasting your time casing me. I am already the chop. assume I'm town and solve what happens after I'm gone

since everyone has checked in, as well, I would not be opposed to being hammered around midday tomorrow once a real POE has been agreed on

What’s your solve? Just laying down like the video I quoted above isn’t helpful to town if you’re actually town.

describing my posting today as just laying down is disingenuous as hell

my approach to this day locks the last wolf into a certain course of action. me going over is a guarantee. there is no casing. there is no arguing. everyone has to spend their time solving with the idea in mind that I will flip green. who is going to try and resist that? who is going to try and set it up so that the POE can expand after I am gone and another voice gets NKed? how will the last wolf try and build a world that sees them alive at f3 with a chance to win?

[Syn]

I am not fighting with you. you aren't going to convince anyone to vote elsewhere. solve for a world where the game continues after I flip.

[Scotty]

I am not fighting with you. you aren't going to convince anyone to vote elsewhere. solve for a world where the game continues after I flip.

Literally not fighting you; I’m asking you to give reasons why I am bad in your eyes

But if you want to fight, I can throw up some fisticuffs:
-I state I suspect Rico
-you basically mock that I dont use your POE
-ask me to solve for a world where you’re already gone
-

[Scotty]

scotty's approach today looks the worst IMO

Praytell what approach *should* I have made coming into today?

Continue my tunnel into Thunal until I reach the center of the earth, out again, into space and all the way to Alpha Centauri?

That would certainly have been the easier approach for sure

[Syn]

why you maldin' so badly bruh

[Syn]

I'll talk to other people but not you lol

[nutella]

I am probably going to vote for Scotty

@Thunal33 I think the seemingly too on the nose hard defense route is actually quite plausible for Epi to take.

On the other hand I also thought the "Syn - purple" was a bad look, not a good one.

It is between the two for sure. I think Scotty feels more like a wolf by play today (and find him overall easier to retrofit as wolf than syn). Plus there was the prior confidence I had on him d2 for... some other reason. And my prior confidence was right on Epi so might as well listen to it again.

[Syn]

pls don't do this to me

[S~V~S]

especially when you gave the good old college try at pushing elsewhere outside the POE, which my approach to this situation very specifically prevents anyone from trying to do

“Push outside the POE” as if THE poe is what you dictate, eh?

Listen Syn, you seem to be taking the aggressive approach here that you are the sacrificial lamb, and I am not deadset on voting you. You seem to be bringing that upon yourself

Almost feels like reverse psychology.

[S~V~S]

Falcon made the point that I was looking to make today, which is: Rico should not be cleared here, despite his insistence that he should.

I’ve been fooled by a super busser several times recently where the town collectively decided ‘oh, that makes no sense to come from a partner’.

But think about the game state. There’s only 2 wolves. If someone is going down eventually, as Epi was most likely, the partner has to get to the end. How does one do that? Hedging, if you don’t want to ever bus. Or make a direct attack on your partner when it seems unlikely.

Let’s look at the peripherals:
Rico suddenly became a sentient human today, which is a departure from the…odd, fragmented posts reminiscent of Pinocchio first coming to life that he made all prior to epi’s demise.
He’s suddenly ready to play the game. How convenient.

If rico is wolf and wants to win the game, by just slanking into the ethers, he’s for sure doomed.

I’m gonna continue my iso of interactions but Rico is actually at the top of my list atm

But ... but ..... you said Epi was the marginally more important role!

I no longer think Thunal is woof



Which I am both pissed about and relieved

Her end of day and SVS’ overwhelming confidence really felt towny. She worked really hard to defend herself and the only other viable wagon would be her pack mate, who is…marginally more important? Like if I look at the roles, epi’s role would absorb some stuff, not the reverse. Again, this is minor, but I think would weigh in to who would want to live and die.

Why is it clearing for Thunal to make this vote (and I agree that it is), and unlikely for her to want to vote for her ("marginally more important") packmate but it somehow isn't clearing for Rico? Especially when his life wasn't on the line, and I was taking suspish from Nutella at that point for trying to rally a wagon on him earlier in the day?

Why is the relative importance of Epis role contributory to clearing one person, but not another?

The only scenario I see this happening in is if Epi is suiciding. But it doesn't look like he tried to replace. He put up a spirited series of catch up posts. One of his last posts he said this:

Ricochet has three fucking posts and I have two votes. Amazing.

Which is why I made that last ditch attempt to yeet Rico, I felt Epi had a point, he hooked me, and nearly reeled me in. And at the time he made that post, there was definitely enough time to add a viable candidate.

Speaking of suicide, not sure what to think, @Syn There are ways to get people to talk about your PoE other than "KILL ME FIRST!!!!!"

It's my experience that people who sacrifice themselves in games to their legacy get ignored more often than not.

It's beginning to get shades of reverse psychology, though. Several people came in here today, saying, "It's syn". And now by asking us to kill you, you may have talked us out of killing you, lol

[S~V~S]

I will be home all day, but have lots of stuff to do so will be in and out of here.

I won't vote for Thunal, I won't vote for Rico. Unless someone presents a smoking gun, I'm disinclined to vote Nutella.

I would be OK with Syn being a wagon if that's what he really wants. The other one I'm open on.

[S~V~S]

Also, I don't trust my own opinion on Scotty at this point, I somehow broke it sometime between (game) yesterday and now.

But odds are good I'll sheep Thunal today, and trust her opinion.

[Scotty]

why you maldin' so badly bruh

Literally lol’d when I googled this

Then frowned when I realized I am starting to thin out

[Scotty]

I'll talk to other people but not you lol

I don’t really know what i’m doing that is giving this sort of response Syn. Like I don’t think I’m even being remotely annoying or angry here.

I just want to know point by point why you suspect me so I can better judge if it is in good faith or not.

I like to solve around the attention I get

[Syn]

Speaking of suicide, not sure what to think, @Syn There are ways to get people to talk about your PoE other than "KILL ME FIRST!!!!!"

It's my experience that people who sacrifice themselves in games to their legacy get ignored more often than not.

It's beginning to get shades of reverse psychology, though. Several people came in here today, saying, "It's syn". And now by asking us to kill you, you may have talked us out of killing you, lol

what is with this disingenuous rewriting of my behaviour today? first scotty, now you? I have poked at ISOs, mused on behaviours, but the only thing that gets brought up is "sacrificial lamb" when I have very clearly explained the logic of my approach and nobody has been able to actually argue against that logic except by throwing shade and mocking me. scotty makes sense why he'd do that, but I don't grok why you would hop on that train as well

"reverse psychology" when it's other people going "hmm maybe I will vote elsewhere actually " which just means if you end up picking someone else, and they flip green, we'll just be back here tomorrow doing this entire "oh maybe it's syn!!!!!" thing again and wasting time until F3. every minute spent being paranoid about me is a minute spent not actually hunting the wolf, and in a mountainous game and with these interactions, it's extremely unlikely that I talk my way back into a solid town read. and the effort required to do so, again, means it's effort not going into finding the wolf.

I have no idea how I can explain the logic better so that people understand it, and it is frankly baffling

stop tinfoiling me. remove "syn could be a wolf after all" from your mind. embrace that I am the pick for today, and solve for who is left with that in mind. it limits the maneuverability of the wolf and completely eliminates an entire avenue of WIFOM and chaos. we have the leeway to make this choice today, but we do not tomorrow. a wolf can do a lot for their own survival if the longevity of my slot is up for debate. remove the debate. force them into navigating a world they are likely uncomfortable with.

[Syn]

I'll talk to other people but not you lol

I don’t really know what i’m doing that is giving this sort of response Syn. Like I don’t think I’m even being remotely annoying or angry here.

I just want to know point by point why you suspect me so I can better judge if it is in good faith or not.

I like to solve around the attention I get

with respect, the faith quality of my posts doesn't matter. you are not solving me. there is no debate to be had. you aren't hunting me, because i am not a wolf and i am not fighting to survive. like the above post, every minute spent on me is a minute wasted

the poe isn't my creation, other people came up with it first. reasons were given. the faithfulness of my adherence to that poe is essentially white noise. lullaby time

[Syn]

from a town!scotty perspective, your approach here should be "this POE is 66% wrong" and then figure out where we went wrong

[Syn]

instead you're musing "it's probably just syn" and trying to nitpick my posts specifically

[Syn]

[Syn]

me after posting on mafia the syndicate dot com

[Scotty]

Falcon made the point that I was looking to make today, which is: Rico should not be cleared here, despite his insistence that he should.

I’ve been fooled by a super busser several times recently where the town collectively decided ‘oh, that makes no sense to come from a partner’.

But think about the game state. There’s only 2 wolves. If someone is going down eventually, as Epi was most likely, the partner has to get to the end. How does one do that? Hedging, if you don’t want to ever bus. Or make a direct attack on your partner when it seems unlikely.

Let’s look at the peripherals:
Rico suddenly became a sentient human today, which is a departure from the…odd, fragmented posts reminiscent of Pinocchio first coming to life that he made all prior to epi’s demise.
He’s suddenly ready to play the game. How convenient.

If rico is wolf and wants to win the game, by just slanking into the ethers, he’s for sure doomed.

I’m gonna continue my iso of interactions but Rico is actually at the top of my list atm

But ... but ..... you said Epi was the marginally more important role!

I no longer think Thunal is woof



Which I am both pissed about and relieved

Her end of day and SVS’ overwhelming confidence really felt towny. She worked really hard to defend herself and the only other viable wagon would be her pack mate, who is…marginally more important? Like if I look at the roles, epi’s role would absorb some stuff, not the reverse. Again, this is minor, but I think would weigh in to who would want to live and die.

Why is it clearing for Thunal to make this vote (and I agree that it is), and unlikely for her to want to vote for her ("marginally more important") packmate but it somehow isn't clearing for Rico? Especially when his life wasn't on the line, and I was taking suspish from Nutella at that point for trying to rally a wagon on him earlier in the day?

Why is the relative importance of Epis role contributory to clearing one person, but not another?

The only scenario I see this happening in is if Epi is suiciding. But it doesn't look like he tried to replace. He put up a spirited series of catch up posts. One of his last posts he said this:

Ricochet has three fucking posts and I have two votes. Amazing.

Which is why I made that last ditch attempt to yeet Rico, I felt Epi had a point, he hooked me, and nearly reeled me in. And at the time he made that post, there was definitely enough time to add a viable candidate.

Speaking of suicide, not sure what to think, @Syn There are ways to get people to talk about your PoE other than "KILL ME FIRST!!!!!"

It's my experience that people who sacrifice themselves in games to their legacy get ignored more often than not.

It's beginning to get shades of reverse psychology, though. Several people came in here today, saying, "It's syn". And now by asking us to kill you, you may have talked us out of killing you, lol

Too early for me to splice quotes (haven’t had my coffeetell) so point by point:

-You’re right, I misspoke on that sentence, it should be ‘marginally less important’. though if you follow along with the rest of the thought in the post you quoted, my point is pretty clear. Thunal would be more inclined to sacrifice imo if she were the other mafia. Unless Epi just flat out wanted to die, which is possible I guess.

The Rico vs Thunal clearing is specific in context to their games. I don’t see a path to the end for Rico if he is bad if he continues to slank along making weird disjointed votes and posts. He obviously woke up from his coma after Epi died. I think that’s notable. Thunal said he’s done something like this as town in a game she played with him, and I’d still like to see it.
Meanwhile, the vote was more inclined imo to go either thunal or Epi yesterday from what I read. I know Rico *could* have been a close call, but I think it was a longshot based on remaining voters.

Your Epi quote shading Rico is a good one, although I’ll need to look at it in context because that could just be lamenting. His partner could have been able to swing votes away. At the point he posted that, (thanks to Syn), nutella then voted Thunal, and we had:

Me neither. But I don’t want to vote Thunal or Syn, and don’t think the case on Epi is strong.

I thought you suspected Epi?

nutella's vote forces you into picking one of the three

even if you convince me, and epi, to stack on rico, rico can just tie his wagon with either epi or thunal

--

Epi (2) - Marmot, Thunal
Syn (1) - Falcon
Thunal (2) - Scotty, Nutella

Hasn't voted: Epi, Rico, SVS, Syn

So if rico is bad, we had nut, svs and syn that could all vote for a non-wagon in rico. Rico was holding, Epi was holding. At BEST, rico was never going over. Epi was the far more likely candidate to go over.

Rico should not be cleared for this

[Scotty]

instead you're musing "it's probably just syn" and trying to nitpick my posts specifically

Holy crap man, I’m literally making a case against Rico.

And of COURSE I’m gonna look at you. Im trying to figure you out. It’s like you’re presenting your science project on Igneous rocks at the French AP final right now

[Scotty]

I am probably going to vote for Scotty

@Thunal33 I think the seemingly too on the nose hard defense route is actually quite plausible for Epi to take.

On the other hand I also thought the "Syn - purple" was a bad look, not a good one.

It is between the two for sure. I think Scotty feels more like a wolf by play today (and find him overall easier to retrofit as wolf than syn). Plus there was the prior confidence I had on him d2 for... some other reason. And my prior confidence was right on Epi so might as well listen to it again.

Are we really the only 2 options on the table here?

Also lol nutella, but your prior confidence on Epi didn’t translate to a vote for him yesterday. As a matter of fact, you flat out made the post ‘it’s Thunal and SVS guys’

[Scotty]

Syn, you can try and ignore me, which is your right, but I am trying to look at other options. If you’re town, I *want* to find you so we don’t have to waste a yeet

[Scotty]

Epi iso perusing notes:
-nutella looks really good. Epi calls her mafia D1, and follows through with it on D2 by saying ‘nutella is my top pick to go today’ and then spends time on an actual case on her. You wanna talk about too on the nose, I doubt Epi spends his entire suspicion capacity pushing nutella.

[Syn]

Syn, you can try and ignore me, which is your right, but I am trying to look at other options. If you’re town, I *want* to find you so we don’t have to waste a yeet

the wolf wants to "find me" too tbh

obviously the prospect of surviving and chopping the wolf today is a nice one, and it'd be cool if that happened, but I don't have nearly enough confidence in who the last wolf is to balance that against the impact my slot has on town's chances of finding that last wolf, if that makes sense. I genuinely do not see me reversing the impact of my EOD and my interactions with Epi, and the wolf understands the value of a hotly contested villager slot in the lead-up to endgame. If I don't go over today, then tomorrow will have hours spent on the exact sentiment you expressed, "it is probably just syn," and then that mischop leads straight to F3, or, god forbid, someone again goes "I'm gonna vote elsewhere" and then it's my slot in a F3. what are the chances of that going well for town? I am not associated with a minds-winning WIM in the final stretch. it's simply not my strength. my best value is in limiting what the wolf can do with the options available at the moment

[Syn]

if everyone is set on the syn/scotty/falcon POE, my interest is in picking who gets flipped after me

falcon looks more blatant than scotty, which makes me hesitate

but I felt similarly with epi and very obviously got burned on that

I am town dude, I don't have the energy level of Maf falcon

if everyone is set on the syn/scotty/falcon POE, my interest is in picking who gets flipped after me

falcon looks more blatant than scotty, which makes me hesitate

but I felt similarly with epi and very obviously got burned on that

I am town dude, I don't have the energy level of Maf falcon

is there a noticeable activity difference between alignments for you? does not seem like a tell that would work on you

Like, it's not always? But it's way more common for me to really slank as Maf

Syn
SVS
Scotty
nutella
Thunal
Rico
falcon
Epi


I feel pretty solid about the upper half of this list. Nutella I could still see being wrong on, but I'm very content with a townread there for now.

Solve is prolly in Rico, Thunal & I




Or is that too obvious?

Linki town Falcon seems more spirited, for lack of a better word lol.

He's happier

are these the hallmarks of a happier, more spirited falcon? would we describe falcon as an active player that gets into the thick of it, or someone who has only placed two vanity votes thus far this game? in 3 days, he's posted less than N1-kill dizzy. he seems to fit his self-described wolf meta

[Syn]

Syn
SVS
Scotty
nutella
Thunal
Rico
falcon
Epi


I feel pretty solid about the upper half of this list. Nutella I could still see being wrong on, but I'm very content with a townread there for now.

Solve is prolly in Rico, Thunal & I




Or is that too obvious?

Rico’s vote broke the tie between Thunal and Epi. He yeeted Epi.

So I doubt either of them was Epis partner. I need to read some ISOs. Right now I’m mainly waiting for Scotty.

And happier is good.

OK, Rico I get, but why don't you think Thunal could be partnered with Epi?

Also...Rico putting Epi over, but not getting NKd?




If he's actually town, that vote all but green checks him. If he's Maf, it allows him to go deep.




I'm wary to clear them off that

two mostly inactive slots as the wolf team would be a trip

but there's a consideration here where even with rico's magical resurrection, his activity is less than epi's was

it could be a hail mary attempt, I guess

[Scotty]

Syn, you can try and ignore me, which is your right, but I am trying to look at other options. If you’re town, I *want* to find you so we don’t have to waste a yeet

the wolf wants to "find me" too tbh

obviously the prospect of surviving and chopping the wolf today is a nice one, and it'd be cool if that happened, but I don't have nearly enough confidence in who the last wolf is to balance that against the impact my slot has on town's chances of finding that last wolf, if that makes sense. I genuinely do not see me reversing the impact of my EOD and my interactions with Epi, and the wolf understands the value of a hotly contested villager slot in the lead-up to endgame. If I don't go over today, then tomorrow will have hours spent on the exact sentiment you expressed, "it is probably just syn," and then that mischop leads straight to F3, or, god forbid, someone again goes "I'm gonna vote elsewhere" and then it's my slot in a F3. what are the chances of that going well for town? I am not associated with a minds-winning WIM in the final stretch. it's simply not my strength. my best value is in limiting what the wolf can do with the options available at the moment

So I’m just the wolf, eh?

But you’re not sure I’m the last wolf

I just…I’m trying my man. Obviously you’re putting up a wall with me and so all I can do is shrug. It’s frustrating. Im not trying to convince you I’m not bad, I’m trying to convince myself that you’re not bad, and this little charade isn’t helping.

I’ll let others talk to you and try to form a better picture looking through that window then