The Syndicate

Hyena wrote: ↑Fri Oct 30, 2020 5:56 pm I also said some stuff about Nutella, but that was before I realized she dayvigged LC. I can go over that part, too, if you guys want, but for now, I'll skip over that part.

Though, I -will- clarify that I ended up calling you town before I saw it.

[mention]TonyStarkPrime[/mention] explain your note giving and how you think you may have killed Sloonei?

If you killed Sloonei then who did the mafia kill? How can you think you killed Sloonei when he's clearly a mafia kill?

Also you're mafia anyway so you don't need to answer any of these loaded questions buddy.

If any of y'all town are like rolecops or something lemme know.

[mention]Hyena[/mention] what did Quin do exactly?

I forgot Enrique was in the game. He can be mafia too.

Oh he died. That's why I forgot he was in the game. He can't be mafia.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Oct 30, 2020 5:58 pm @TonyStarkPrime explain your note giving and how you think you may have killed Sloonei?

If you killed Sloonei then who did the mafia kill? How can you think you killed Sloonei when he's clearly a mafia kill?

Also you're mafia anyway so you don't need to answer any of these loaded questions buddy.

Hold on. I got something to say about this. All of us can place a vote during the night for someone, and they may or may not get roleblocked. TSP was our target last night. Poison was our target N1 if I remember correctly. My other peeps can confirm this (and correct me on the specific mechanics of that since I probably got something wrong).

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Oct 30, 2020 5:56 pm I believe there is a mafia between Marmot/FG/TSP and also a mafia between Quin/TH.

Nutella, Alison, Hyena are town. I think TL is town.

I agree with this and am also still clearing TSP and would lean marmot in that first group. Def agree with Quin/TH containing wolf, townreading Hyena and leaning town on TL.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Oct 30, 2020 6:00 pm @Hyena what did Quin do exactly?

I'll talk about this in a bit, too. In short, I don't remember much of what they did.

Anyway TSP is uber scummy I don't know what he's done to make everyone love him but his day 2 especially was trash.

Vulgard wrote: ↑Sat Oct 24, 2020 7:18 am [VOTE: Marmot] aubergine

Vulgard wrote: ↑Sat Oct 24, 2020 7:18 am ...Wait. Why's Marmot selfvoting?

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Oct 24, 2020 1:23 pm Why are you Marmotvoting?

Vulgard wrote: ↑Sat Oct 24, 2020 2:02 pm Because I want Marmot to do something other than selfvote, although I suppose that me saying that now defeats the purpose of my vote.

*gets confused* @_@

"...okay, I might need more context than this, even if I think I want to call Marmot town."
*continues reading*
"Wait.... those first two posts were made one after the other..."

"Why did he vote first and THEN ask why Marmot is selfvoting????"

"... and THEN answers Sloonei by saying he wanted Marmot to do something besides self-vote???"

"... annnnnd switches to Poison in the same post." @_@

(I promise my Marmot stuff is in the next post. I'm just setting up the narrative right now. D:)

Ohh yeah that vulgard/marmot stuff was actually pretty weird


I think I put too much stock into the LC derpclear, marmot can def fake that kind of thing

Oh wait, the switch to Poison was the reason why I started ???'ing Marmot. I was just like,

"Okay, I don't know about Marmot, but the fact that Vulgard didn't continue talking about Marmot and instead started focusing on Poison makes me think that Poison is actually town. I'm throwing Marmot into the ??? pile with Alison."

And that's as far as I got before I got bored/distracted by other stuff.

THEN SLOONEI ISO-DIVED VULGARD, TOO, and made me all paranoid. :<

Okay, yeah, I looked again, and our vote will either roleblock our target or do nothing. AND if we couldn't reach majority on someone enough times, we would start dying. Fortunately, that never happened.

I just followed other people's leads at the time, because I wasn't reading the thread.

Looking at Quin stuff now,

Quin liked the way Poison was handling the wagon against her.

Hyena wrote: ↑Fri Oct 30, 2020 6:19 pm Looking at Quin stuff now,

Quin liked the way Poison was handling the wagon against her.

They also thought that Nutella's shot on LC doesn't confirm her. Thought it was suss that Nutella's entire play was that she can specifically kill Long Con?? I dunno what was meant about the latter part -- you guys should probably ask them about that.

Hyena wrote: ↑Fri Oct 30, 2020 6:23 pm

Hyena wrote: ↑Fri Oct 30, 2020 6:19 pm Looking at Quin stuff now,

Quin liked the way Poison was handling the wagon against her.

They also thought that Nutella's shot on LC doesn't confirm her. Thought it was suss that Nutella's entire play was that she can specifically kill Long Con?? I dunno what was meant about the latter part -- you guys should probably ask them about that.

Near the beginning of the game, they liked Long Con, too, with me, and thought Poison was bad.

Hyena wrote: ↑Fri Oct 30, 2020 6:23 pm

Hyena wrote: ↑Fri Oct 30, 2020 6:23 pm

Hyena wrote: ↑Fri Oct 30, 2020 6:19 pm Looking at Quin stuff now,

Quin liked the way Poison was handling the wagon against her.

They also thought that Nutella's shot on LC doesn't confirm her. Thought it was suss that Nutella's entire play was that she can specifically kill Long Con?? I dunno what was meant about the latter part -- you guys should probably ask them about that.

Near the beginning of the game, they liked Long Con, too, with me, and thought Poison was bad.

Annnnd that's it, it looks like? Not really engaged, but to be honest, it was tough staying engaged in there without being able to interact with you guys directly.

Okay, I'm bored now. I'll talk about the other three (Marmot, Trustworthy, and Turnip Head) later.

Hyena wrote: ↑Fri Oct 30, 2020 6:23 pm

Hyena wrote: ↑Fri Oct 30, 2020 6:19 pm Looking at Quin stuff now,

Quin liked the way Poison was handling the wagon against her.

They also thought that Nutella's shot on LC doesn't confirm her. Thought it was suss that Nutella's entire play was that she can specifically kill Long Con?? I dunno what was meant about the latter part -- you guys should probably ask them about that.

My role said I could target anyone and if they were the "right person" they would die, if they weren't nothing would happen. In a previous Nanook game TSP had a similar role and the "right person" was LC so I was sort of memeing about that in thread with TSP and thought it would be funny if it actually was LC again, so I sent it in not really expecting it to go through but when it did it was hilarious

I'm here. I was whisked out of the thread by an unknown effect last night. I don't know who did it. I didn't get a group chat or anything, all I was told was that I couldn't post in the thread or vote, so I just watched the thread as a spectator for D2.

I agree with Mac that it was super weird that TSP immediately assumed he was responsible for Sloonei's death - my immediate (and I think most people's immediate) assumption was that he was shot by the mafia. I sort of wonder if he was trying to play around a Tracker or Watcher result by immediately saying "yeah I did visit Sloonei so if any Trackers/Watchers saw it please don't get on my case about it".

I'm looking at FG/Marmot as well and I think it's more likely to be FG. FG has an energy to her play when she is town, even when she was being put under pressure in Jack Attack. She was under much less pressure here and didn't have that energy. The biggest reason to trust her is the very good associatives with Vulgard but I'm putting less stock in associative reads because Sloonei's note claims that there is a lost wolf.

Speaking of the Sloonei note, the ending of it seems to indicate that the person who wrote the note knew that Sloonei would be killed. Unless something very weird is going on it's probably not the case that Sloonei could foretell his own death. I can't come up with a plausible explanation for this though. Maybe it was mafia who sent the note - but then why would they reveal that they knew that Sloonei would die, and so tip off the townies that something was wrong? Alternatively maybe it's a "last will" sort of thing where Sloonei gets to infodump in a single note that gets released after his death. Or maybe there's a broadcaster-style role that delivers notes from the hands of whoever gets NKed that night. Or maybe maybe the whole "who's at my door" last line was added by the host himself as a feature of the note.

None of these possible explanations really feel convincing to me though.

I townread Hyena and since I don't have access to the group chat I'm going to more or less just sheep Hyena's take on things there.

Wait. Is it legal for Hyena to create a pastebin link with the full chat logs of the out of threaders' group chat, and link to it here?

I suspect it is not legal, but it doesn't hurt to check.

nutella wrote: ↑Fri Oct 30, 2020 6:26 pm

Hyena wrote: ↑Fri Oct 30, 2020 6:23 pm

Hyena wrote: ↑Fri Oct 30, 2020 6:19 pm Looking at Quin stuff now,

Quin liked the way Poison was handling the wagon against her.

They also thought that Nutella's shot on LC doesn't confirm her. Thought it was suss that Nutella's entire play was that she can specifically kill Long Con?? I dunno what was meant about the latter part -- you guys should probably ask them about that.

My role said I could target anyone and if they were the "right person" they would die, if they weren't nothing would happen. In a previous Nanook game TSP had a similar role and the "right person" was LC so I was sort of memeing about that in thread with TSP and thought it would be funny if it actually was LC again, so I sent it in not really expecting it to go through but when it did it was hilarious

LC was "Dimwitted Government Agency Man". Enrique was "Magic Man".

Is there a possibility that your role kills people with "man" in their role name? I could see nanook writing up all the roles and being like "oh shit, I have a bunch of role names that end in 'man', I should make a role that can only kill those". It would be on-brand for his sense of humor I think.

Oh I forgot TSP was angling for us to exe Poison over Vulgard D1. That's a big yikes.

Also it's not actually reasonable for TSP to look at Sloonei's note and think "hey maybe me targeting Sloonei with a mysterious action made that note get sent to him". Because Sloonei's note says "THERE IS OR WAS A LOST SCUM, THE GM WAS NOT CLEAR". If TSP wrote the note he would know for sure whether or not the note was written by him and not be uncertain about it. But if his role was target a player and the player gets the note, then he should know for a fact that he was not responsible for the note. Because "THE GM WAS NOT CLEAR" heavily, heavily implies that the note is written by someone who is not nanook. Therefore from the point of view of TSP, if he targeted Sloonei with an unknown ability and that note came out, he should know his ability is not responsible for it.

Also also, why is TSP pointing a mystery ability at Sloonei? Remember, he thought at first that he'd killed Sloonei with his ability - so he didn't know if that ability was positive or negative. Why would he randomly hipfire on consensus town in that circumstance with a mystery ability that could easily be negative?

The more I think about it the more nothing about TSP's SoD claim makes sense and I am leaning towards the theory that it was 100% made up.

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Oct 30, 2020 7:13 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Fri Oct 30, 2020 6:26 pm

Hyena wrote: ↑Fri Oct 30, 2020 6:23 pm

Hyena wrote: ↑Fri Oct 30, 2020 6:19 pm Looking at Quin stuff now,

Quin liked the way Poison was handling the wagon against her.

They also thought that Nutella's shot on LC doesn't confirm her. Thought it was suss that Nutella's entire play was that she can specifically kill Long Con?? I dunno what was meant about the latter part -- you guys should probably ask them about that.

My role said I could target anyone and if they were the "right person" they would die, if they weren't nothing would happen. In a previous Nanook game TSP had a similar role and the "right person" was LC so I was sort of memeing about that in thread with TSP and thought it would be funny if it actually was LC again, so I sent it in not really expecting it to go through but when it did it was hilarious

LC was "Dimwitted Government Agency Man". Enrique was "Magic Man".

Is there a possibility that your role kills people with "man" in their role name? I could see nanook writing up all the roles and being like "oh shit, I have a bunch of role names that end in 'man', I should make a role that can only kill those". It would be on-brand for his sense of humor I think.

Well at first I thought it was just a single target for the whole game and I'd become vanilla after the LC shot, but I asked and he said I get a new "right person" each day and can submit a target each day, so I think it's just one exact "right person" at a time, not a set of possible targets. I hate that I hit a town one though, thought it would be reassigned to a diff mafia member after LC but I guess that's not quite how it works.

nutella wrote: ↑Fri Oct 30, 2020 7:24 pm Well at first I thought it was just a single target for the whole game and I'd become vanilla after the LC shot, but I asked and he said I get a new "right person" each day and can submit a target each day, so I think it's just one exact "right person" at a time, not a set of possible targets. I hate that I hit a town one though, thought it would be reassigned to a diff mafia member after LC but I guess that's not quite how it works.

Okay. What do you make of my case on TSP?

Alright maybe I miscleared TSP then, you and Mac seem legit in your suspicions and he did fall off a bunch after D1. I just really liked his D1 but that's fakeable ig.

I mean having a good D1 is one thing but his claim about what happened today is like. A tier below mechanically impossible. Like in theory it could be true but it would make no sense for it to be true.

I think your points make some sense but in this weird game where we've seen other town roles with mystery targeting things there's certainly a world where TSP is just telling the truth and unclear what happened. Sloonei isn't here to berate me for invoking fancy MU jargon, so this could be a case where "Hoya theorem" applies -- a messy claim that makes little sense is more likely to come from town. But idk. Your point about him pushing Poison over Vul is fair as well.

Not sure why it would be mechanically impossible but it is certainly odd.

I mean honestly if I had a targeting effect where I didn't know if the effect would be positive or negative I'd probably have considered Sloonei as a target last night. He was a townread but I had some slight tinfoil of him that increased a little with Poison's flip. Idk, if TSP is town he probably just sent the note and that seems fine?

I'm more curious about the content of the note though in that case. Though it sounded like TSP didn't write it, just unknowingly passed it on?

nutella wrote: ↑Fri Oct 30, 2020 7:27 pm I think your points make some sense but in this weird game where we've seen other town roles with mystery targeting things there's certainly a world where TSP is just telling the truth and unclear what happened. Sloonei isn't here to berate me for invoking fancy MU jargon, so this could be a case where "Hoya theorem" applies -- a messy claim that makes little sense is more likely to come from town. But idk. Your point about him pushing Poison over Vul is fair as well.

The roles are complicated and mysterious, yeah, but them being complicated and mysterious doesn't explain eg. why TSP hipfired onto Sloonei with an unknown ability. Or why he assumed that the kill came from him. Or why he wasn't sure whether or not he wrote the note when he claimed a targetable mystery ability. None of those things make sense no matter how "mysterious" the roles are, because they're things that are psychologically implausible for a town member to do.

Re: Hoya's theorem. I think TSP is a veteran mafia player and knows how to construct a messy claim. I don't model him as having a significantly worse ability to come up with a fake role claim than you and this claim is not more "messily town" than your boat claim in Radiohead was.

Well I disagree on the mystery targeting point at least. But he can be mafia, I just don't think this is a slam dunk

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Oct 30, 2020 5:58 pm @TonyStarkPrime explain your note giving and how you think you may have killed Sloonei?

If you killed Sloonei then who did the mafia kill? How can you think you killed Sloonei when he's clearly a mafia kill?

Also you're mafia anyway so you don't need to answer any of these loaded questions buddy.

I have two actions, phrased as if one hurts and one helps but I don’t know what they are. I used the one that helps on Sloonei.

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Oct 30, 2020 7:27 pm I mean having a good D1 is one thing but his claim about what happened today is like. A tier below mechanically impossible. Like in theory it could be true but it would make no sense for it to be true.

What the heck false

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Fri Oct 30, 2020 7:37 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Oct 30, 2020 5:58 pm @TonyStarkPrime explain your note giving and how you think you may have killed Sloonei?

If you killed Sloonei then who did the mafia kill? How can you think you killed Sloonei when he's clearly a mafia kill?

Also you're mafia anyway so you don't need to answer any of these loaded questions buddy.

I have two actions, phrased as if one hurts and one helps but I don’t know what they are. I used the one that helps on Sloonei.

See I buy this.
The only really sketchy thing is his immediate reaction/fear that he caused Sloonei's death from this, as that wouldn't make sense and it seemed an obvious mafia NK.

Can you clarify that you didn't write the note yourself and you're just assuming it was passed to him due to your action?

I didn’t write the note.

I read TSP's ISO. If we cut out all the fluff he's scumsided all game.

He lightly defends Vulgard early on while claiming that he's nullreading Vulgard, shades Syn, shades me, and generally tries to push the conversation away from Vulgard by repeatedly insinuating that Vulgard has not posted much and doesn't deserve this much suspicion on them. Claims that Vulgard is the same as their town meta in #359, while at the same time claiming that they totally have a null read on Vulgard. (Claiming someone is null to you while clearly defending them is pretty BS, and reeks of scum trying to have the best of both worlds.) The read on Syn (who we now know is town) was also pretty bad: he says Syn hasn't done anything wrong, but not doing anything wrong is a scumtell. First of all, ???, and second of all, that sounds like he's leaving the door open to both scumread or townread Syn depending on what's convenient rather than giving a legitimate read.

Lots of hedginess all around. I can't find a single confident stance on LC or Vulgard, which should be a red flag since those two were hot topics. Big example of this is #497. He gives several reasons to believe that Vulgard is scum, but then caps it off with "it's wolfy BUT" and then says "it means you and Alison aren't W/W and nothing else". That reads to me like he was trying to awkwardly distance from Vulgard but thought he could swing a wagon onto Poison (which he tried to do) and didn't want to commit to the bus just yet. But leaves the door open to make him look good if Vulgard dies.

D2 was more hedginess, going back and forth on Poison. Sets himself up as Poison's defender by saying he should be mustering up the energy to defend her, and also tries to halt the exe while he asks for Poison's role claim in case she has a strong PR. Ends up voting her anyway, and I get a strong sense that he just doesn't give a fuck about the exe despite making a show of caring.

[mention]TonyStarkPrime[/mention] In #1123 you said that Poison pointed out something that makes you queasy and immediately ask her to claim. You don't follow up on this. What was that about?

linki: Why would you use a positive ability on Sloonei and then immediately enter the thread with "oh shit guys I think I killed Sloonei by accident"?

I'm glad Alison is saying all the stuff I've been thinking so I don't have to say it lol

Linki: well I could have .

“TSP was wrong about poison he’s been scumsiding all game” is an absurd conclusion. I thought Poison was a hit. What do you mean “tries to set himself up as Poison’s defender with a post that says he can’t/won’t be Poison’s defender”. Also, I took a pretty clear stance on LC, I told everyone to vote for him.

After it was an absolute foregone conclusion and you realised that you were never gonna get the mischop you were subtly pushing for.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Fri Oct 30, 2020 7:47 pm Linki: well I could have .

“TSP was wrong about poison he’s been scumsiding all game” is an absurd conclusion. I thought Poison was a hit. What do you mean “tries to set himself up as Poison’s defender with a post that says he can’t/won’t be Poison’s defender”. Also, I took a pretty clear stance on LC, I told everyone to vote for him.

You defended Vulgard early game, you tried to get us to exe Poison over Vulgard, and then you made a show of ensuring that town doesn't sleepwalk to a Poison exe without actually doing anything to stop the exe from happening.

My point re: the Poison's defender stuff is that the post in question indicates clearly that you wanted on some level to defend Poison, but you didn't actually do that. It's the equivalent of wanting everyone to know you had a townread on Poison and think it's bad that we're just autoexeing her, but doing nothing to actually save her.

alright so i think i should let y'all know that i typically am working when eod happens

but also i won't be working for the next two weeks after tomorrow so i mean yeah.

i wanna do some school work and then i'll play

I didn’t think it was bad that we were chopping Poison. I wanted to chop poison. I clearly wanted to chop Poison. I thought Poison was mafia.

Suspects other than TSP (in order):
1) FG
2) Marmot
3) Whoever Hyena thinks is scum from the 4 out of threaders.